Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Ralph Fiennes

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

This week we have Ralph Fiennes joining us for lunch! Ralph came over to talk about the new David Hare play he helped bring to life, Grace Pervades. We were swept up in stories of Victorian theatre, Italian food, Catholicism, and growing up as the eldest of six in a very artistic family. Over Mum’s Greek chicken and lemon potatoes, Ralph talked about post-show rituals, his obsession with simple fresh food, cooking Ottolenghi lamb in lockdown, and why a filthy martini with a blue cheese olive is “blasphemy”. Ralph, we just wish you could’ve stayed for a glass of wine! Grace Pervades is at the Theatre Royal Haymarket until July the 11th, don’t miss it!Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/Follow Table Manners on:Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcastFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcastYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Tabermanagh's. I'm Jessie Ware and I have a bit of a list because I've just been to the dentist, so enjoy that. Oh dear. How are you, mum? Not well. The hip's not good, darling. Oh, mum.

Are you going to be bionic woman by next season? Possibly before then. Are you going to go off at security? I don't know, darling, but there's something not right. And he said I've got to try and walk with crutches. 74, I'm not going to manage crutches, am I? Anyway, Sarah's bringing them over tomorrow, so. You do look fabulous.

with all the whole things. Do I? Do I? I don't know. I look really hobbly and old womanie. I'm sorry. Good week this week for you, darling. Why, what happened to me? I heard you sing again. Oh, that's very sweet if you. Yeah. Yeah, I sung in Kingston. It was so nice. I did an acoustic show, which is the last one that I'm going to do before I go and do the big arena shows. Do you do any acoustics on your arena shows? I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I think you should. It's nice. Yeah. But I also want to do a big, big show. Yeah. I'll give you everything. Darling, I was thinking champagne kisses come down in a champagne glass. Who's the person? Diet of Monta's. That's it.

Yeah, no, I can see myself exactly like Dieter-on-Tis. Yeah, I can see you in a champagne glass. Okay, we'll see what we can do with the old Bouget. Okay. I'll hold the string. Not with your old shaky hip, thanks. No. Thank you, though, for you came on and people loved it.

Did they? Yeah, they love you. You're an icon. Am I? Now, we have Ray Fon. Ones on today. You went to see the play this week. Grace pervades. Grace pervades. It's at the I thought it was going to be out of a person called Grace Pervades, but it's not. It's grace pervading the stage. It's a new David Hare play. Yeah. I feel like Ray Fines has lots of

connections with David Hare. He's done other stuff with David Hare. I don't know. Anyway, Ray Fines, everyone knows him. He's kind of, when I was collecting the chicken yesterday from ginger pig. Everyone said, who's on tomorrow then, Len? And I said, oh, Ray Fines. They said Wow. The best of the British actors ever, ever, ever. And people regard him so highly because he's done, he's so loved because of all the things he's done. From English patient to menu. Oh, the menu. Conclave. Conclave. Could he not have been the best ever in that? He was Heathcliff. See, I can't say. Now who are with?

Juliet Benosh, I think it was. Oh my way. Yeah, on tennis. I never thought. I wonder if he's seeing Jacob, but he thought of Jacob's performance. We had a French Cathy. I think so. Kathy, Cathy, come home.

We're very excited to have him today. This is a big deal. He's, you know, got a show tonight. I know. So we must feed him well. I wonder if he wants a little glass of wine to keep him going. He does like a drink. Okay, so I've got cold white and I've got cold.

Well, I don't know yet. I don't know him. I haven't met him. I haven't put champagne in. Maybe it's not good for the vocal chords. I don't know, we'll find out. And what have you cooked? Well, it's kind of a spring...

It kind of was a spring day when I decided to do it. And I'm going to Greece this week. So I decided to do Greek chicken with lemon potatoes. I was listening to his episode with Ruthie Rogers, and he does love to cook. Oh, does he? He's got a place in Italy, so I... Oh, well, and I've done Greeks.

If I didn't know that before, that... I'm not even safer. Okay. And then what have you done for Pood? I've made a panacotta with sour cherries on the top. Or he can have, I've left them in the bowl rather than blobbing them out. He can have passion fruit on the top, depending how passionate he's feeling to do. I really love it when you do the sour cherries.

When was the last time you did that? It was so good. Yeah, it was a while ago. Ray Fines coming up on table manners. Can't wait. Ray Fines, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. And making such an effort, you look so dashing.

Do I? Yeah. You came in with a really fab hat as well. That's not here now, but thank you. I took it off. How are you? I'm good. I'm just starting this run of Grace Pervades.

This new play by David Hare, which we transferred from Theatre Royal Bath, which is a season. I helped to create last year. And it's exciting to have a new play in the West End. Yeah. How was the show last night? It was good.

I mean, I think my own compass on how the show is going is very subjective so you don't really know you have a sense of it but often your sense of how a show goes is is not accurate I don't know how to I don't know how to market it is you have a vibe about how to do you know was on their feet when I was

mum went to see it I'm really annoyed that I couldn't make the same night so mum loved it I loved it it's interesting story yeah well for people that haven't heard about the play can you just explain what it's about yes well the title grace pervades is actually taken from a description of Ellen Terry, whether in movement or repose, grace pervades

the Hussie, which was what a theatre writer called Charles Reed wrote about Elin Terry, a great Victorian actress. And I read a wonderful book by a man called Michael Holroyd, a great biographer Michael Holroyd, wrote a book called A Strange Eventful History, which is the story. of Ellen Terry and her acting partner Henry or Sir Henry Irving. Who play? Oh, I play. And the story of their partnership as two actors in the late 19th century in London is extraordinary. Henry Irving created a very particular kind of theatre.

At that time, mostly audiences went to see in the dramatic theatre great actors do their stuff. but the idea of a director's theatre didn't really exist. So Henry Irving was a driven man, driven to be a better actor, became well known, was given the run of the Lyceum Theatre, which is where now the Lion King plays. And he created using extraordinary stage effects, lighting effects, the best painters of the day to paint the scenery, design the scenery. And he was becoming a great and recognised actor,

and he invited the young Ellen Terry who'd come from a family of actors to be his leading lady. And they shone together. The English theatre had never seen anything quite like the sort of detailed magnificence of his productions. Something extraordinary. Audiences came in their thousands and hundreds to see what he was doing.

But expensive productions. Expensive, very, very expensive productions. But initially, the attendance was so great that he was in profit. and it was a big, big thing. And then fashions changed, and then his theatre became outmoded, and in the end,

the play reflects how in the end he got into trouble, had to sell the theatre. But I think the play celebrates their relationship, which we think was at one point romantic, and also the play examines her two illegitimate children. So another interesting thing is that she had conceived two children out of wedlock with a well-known art, called William Godwit, with whom she was very in love.

Before that, she had a disastrous marriage to a famous painter called G.F. Watts, who was about 40 and she was about 18. That didn't work. So she had had quite a dramatic love life. And she was an extraordinary woman, and she got married to an actor. Victorian society is really interesting, because people were doing their thing under the radar, but you couldn't do it on the surface.

I mean, you could not have, obviously, love opening it. You couldn't live with someone to be unmarried in Victorian times. It would be scandalous. So she was out in the wilderness for a bit when she had conceived two children, was living with William Godwin. That's background to the play. The point of the play is about theatre and the people who make theatre and the relationships behind the work that they're doing.

So the central theme of the piece is Ellen and, Henry and the theatre that he is making and her relationship. Running parallel to that is the story of her two children, which is very, very, very interesting because her son, Edward Gordon Craig, her illegitimate son, became one of the most important ideas people in the theatre, an iconoclastic, opinionated, brilliant artist, difficult to work with, by his ideas, his revolutionary ideas, I mean, provocative ones, get rid of actors, let's just have puppets.

But basically he was trying to upend the sort of theatre Henry Irving was creating. And he didn't do a lot. He did do a famous production of Hamlet in Moscow with the great Russian actor, director Stanislavski. The designs are incredible. You can see the design. There are stunning.

He was a great artist. I think he was not a great director. But he became very, very famous because his ideas were sort of exciting. His sister, Edie, Edith, also directed, plays mostly with a feminist or political slant out of a barn in Kent. And she produced a lot of plays, living with her girlfriends. She was certainly lesbian, and they lived together in a sort of small woman's community, and that's in the play.

You see an insight into the way David Hare has imagined that. But she was an activist, and the irony is she's not that well-known, but she probably produced loads of plays. and her brother was very famous and did very little and David Hare has fun with that in the play You said that you read a book about this and then did you approach David Hare to write this play? I pitched it as an idea

I mean he may well have said doesn't interest me rave but I had a feel I know David and admire him hugely and he I know his passion for what the theatre can do and you know that's been his life writing for the theatre

and what the provocation a play can create and how it can move and excite people's souls, I think, as well as their minds. Anyway, I've worked with him, and I've just had a hunch that the theme, the theme of the theatre and how the theatre has changed in this country, I think I thought it would appeal. And he went away and read the book

and then read the, and there's massive amount of material on Irving and Ellen. I mean, there's lots you can read. and he researched and researched and came up with this, I believe, wonderful play. So how long has it been in the making for? Well, I must have thrown the idea at him about three years ago now. And then he went away and read it and read the staff, read the book. And then I was invited to run a season at Theatre Royal Bath by Danny Moore,

the artistic director of Bath. And I said yes. And I wanted two new plays. and David had written it in time for us to do this season of plays that started a year ago so a year ago we were in rehearsals for grace pervades the first time around how do you wind down after a show what's there any food that you eat particularly or you need a drink or a drink is always a good thing a drink yeah yeah what are you having yeah well I will try and offer a glass of champagne to guests in the dressing room otherwise I'm

I love a martini. How do you take your martini? Very dry. Ideally, I don't do that. I haven't got to this stage yet in the dressing one. But if you, but a dressing room post show, blah, blah, aside, you should chill the glass, freeze the glass, so it's cold. Yeah.

And the vodka or gin, I prefer gin. I think you should keep the gin in the freezer. What sort of gin? Tankery tan, I like. Tankery. And I think you rinse the glass, the frozen, glass with a little bit of dry vermouth. Just rinse it and chuck it.

So it's just coated. Get it out of there, yeah. Yeah, then pour in. You shouldn't need to shake and all that stuff because your gin is already frozen. Okay, so that was all silly with Bond, the shake and not stirred thing. Yeah, I mean, I think...

What happens is you tend to get a lot of the ice starts to melt in the shaking and you get a bit of... Yeah, exactly. So pour in your tankery tanned into the rinsed, the glass that's been rinsed with the dry amoeuvre, and a little sliver of lemon. See, I like mine wet and filthy, Ralph. Unfortunately, so we wouldn't be sharing martini.

I'd like to try yours. I would like to try a wet and filthy martini? It's, I just, I like it with, more is more for me. So I want like the blue, I mean, I. So what do you, tell me how you do it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I like lots of amoeh.

Lots of amoos. Well, I just, oh no, you know. Yeah, I know. But I do think it sounds more chic doing a rinse. I liked him. And then you chuck it out. I like it's dramatic. dramatic and I like it.

And I like a blue cheese olive and lots of brine. A blue cheese olive? Yeah, you've never had a dirty martini with a blue cheese olive. Is it olive with blue cheese in it? Yes. No, no!

This is blasphemy, heresy. But it must all leak out and make it all milk. Yes, delicious. But it makes it not delicious. It's delicious. It's delicious. I think you should not knock it until you've tried it.

Let's start from the beginning. Can you paint a picture of who was around the dinner table and what was a very memorable dish from your childhood? Well, a lot of people around the dinner table. Yeah, well, I'm the eldest of six. Wow. So there was mostly eight around the table. And meals were, I mean, we didn't eat fancy food.

I mean, we were, my parents were often up against it financially. So we were sort of, there were regular trips to the cash and carry to get sort of supermarket food. Your dad was a farmer? He started off farming and then he became a photographer. But a Sunday lunch would be roast chicken and potatoes and vegetables and things like that And I do remember occasionally my mother parents making spaghetti bolognese and I said about food was it was get the food in the mouths of the children You know get your carbs in the kids mouths and my mother my mother made wonderful soups

They were very good cooks but often I just have a my childhood memory is You know often it's a bought pie or something from the supermarket just eat for ease but macaroni cheese or fish pie or shepherd's pie or those sort of stalwart dishes that just give energy and feed people And you were the eldest? And how many brothers, how many sisters? There's four boys and two girls. And did you live on a farm?

Initially, yeah, but then I was, my father was a tenant farmer in Suffolk. Farming what? It was crops. He did have some sheep, but I think it was peas and barley wheat. Did you have to help? I was, no, I was a child. Oh, I was six years old. But didn't they have the children helping, like collecting eggs?

It's probably less help. No, no. But I was, you have to remember that I was six years old when we left. Okay. Oh, fine. And where did you move? We moved to enter North Dorset, and then my father became a photographer. So memories of the meal times were kind of home-cooked food.

But sometimes, I'm afraid, sort of bought supermarket food. for ease. But then I think as we got older and that sort of pressure to get the, I mean there was a time when we moved to Ireland and we were, my parents were very the whole, we had a romantic move to the coast of West Cork

and built a house. But there was no, there was, there was difficult financial time. So we'd sold the house in Dorset and built this house. My father built a house in a fantastic site on Dunnallis Bay. But there was no income. He didn't really have a, I thought he think he thought he would buy,

there are lots of wonderful sites there with planning permission that you could buy an island. I think he thought he would develop properties but it wasn't his thing, he wasn't. I mean, he was brilliant with his hands and he could build and make a house but there wasn't his business. So we were sort of stuck out there.

What age was that? I was 10. Stuck out there with this wonderful house and this amazing ocean and mountains behind and a lake behind us. And my mother going, what the deep, deep are we going to eat and how do we get by? And we were, there were weeks how we existed, our lunchtime.

We might have had a piece of chicken or a pie, but as lunch was nor packet soup with mashed potato. Oh. That's what it was. Did you like it? We were hungry kids, so we just, it was fine, it was food. I was just telling Jesse that my friend had some Italian friends staying over and they stayed in the Ellen Hotel in Kensington, which was her house. Oh, really?

Yes. So there's a hotel called the Ellen Hotel, and that's her house. You'll have to go there. The place that people, if they're interested at all in this Ellen Terry story, was to visit Small Hives in Kent, which is the home, which is featured in the play. Yes, which is where she bought an Eadie, her daughter, lived there. And it's now a National Trust property. It's a wonderful museum with artifacts from...

her working life and lots of artefacts from Henry Irving's working life and the famous Lady Macbeth dress she wore with the green beetle wings stitched into it. That's there. It's really worth a trip. But she, she was very avant-garde. So she accepted her daughter was a lesbian and lesbian friends and she liked being with them. Yes. And her son, she promoted him as much as she could.

Yes, that's right. That's right. And they're all very... I think she's very open. She was offered a bit open. That's what I like to. about the play because it was about emancipation as well. It is.

It's about emancipation. And I thought that was very interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's a big thing. Do you eat before, when do you, is this going to be your last meal before you go on stage? No, I'll probably have something a bit later on, around about five. What will you have at about five? Does it change or are you kind of stick a phone? Well, I was very lucky that last weekend I had some friends over.

I didn't cook myself because I get up late from here into, it's. place I have in Suffolk, but I'd ask someone I know to make a wonderful fish stew, and I've still got. A little bit over. Yeah, so I'm finishing it off. I hope you've had it in the freezer. Oh, yeah, I've had it in. Good, otherwise you've had a bad, yeah.

You're quite, when I listen to your Ruthie Rogers episode, you're really good friends. We've had Ruthie on the podcast too. Love her. She talks about how you'd call her up from like the market in Italy and tell her what you were thinking of making to or what you just eaten. So are you quite a food? Oh, I love, I am a foodie, yes. I love food. And of course, Ruthie's River Cafe is great. But yes, I have asked her advice. And probably annoyingly, I'm often referring to one of the River Cafe cookbooks and we'll ring her up. Must be very irritating. What this recipe, Ruthie, what do you think? Should I add more

of this? It says this. I'm not sure about this. But I love, yeah, I love to cook. I cook simple food, I think. Hang on, you did talk about having Otolengi and liking a lot of cooking of Otolengi, which is not simple. No, that's not simple. When we had lockdown, and I was experimenting. I was in Suffolk, but in a little cottage.

And I did experiment with Otolengi. I had the time to go to the soup. supermarket and get the things you need. All those exotic spices. Are you hungry by the way? I am. Good. I haven't eaten yet today. Oh, okay.

Well, yeah, well, mum's made something delicious. It smells great. So if we were coming around to your house and you were cooking for us and you have the time, what do you think that you would be serving? What's your kind of your go-to dish that you know is a bit of a showstopper? I would try to, I've loved cooking the Otter. Lengi, slow-cooked lamb, which you have to marinate if you can for a day or two before, and you cook it for four or five hours.

And then it's quite easy because you just bung it in and then you don't have to think about it. Yeah, but it's also, it soaks in all these spices and juices and juices. What are you serving it? Probably so with some simple green vegetable, like some spinach or something. Okay. It's a meal in itself, because it's... Oh, was it got potatoes and stuff like that in them? No, it's got carrots, I think it's got salariac and garlic.

and yeah it's a lot of stuff with it so i would i would then serve something light and green right okay and i would probably most likely i'm big in i'm into steaming steaming yeah is that a new thing or you've always been big into steaming relatively new for me the steaming that looks amazing it's um a Greek chicken really with lemony potatoes very lemony potatoes I hope there's them my favorite but help yourself to whichever bit you want See, that's it, something green Yeah, exactly, that would be my Green salad

Spinnish salad, is it? Spinach with sugar snap peas and Some asparagus and pumpkin seed That's a bit of you, right? This is exactly my, this is my perfect meal Oh, good. Yeah, you bet you say that to all the girls So, have you got a sweet tooth?

Yeah, I don't eat puddings a lot But I do have a sweet tooth, yeah, yeah, it do. The potatoes, it should be really lemon-y and nice, I hope. Thank you. Oh, this juice is great. Does it? Yeah. I hope so.

Did you get enough asparagus? Because it's loads at the bottom here. The chicken is perfect. Don't I just say the chicken is perfect? Okay, good. It's lovely, it's light, mum. It's perfect. He's got to go on stage.

She doesn't want to go to sleep, does he? No. I love the sugar snuck. I do, too. So the acting, when did the... Because from what I gather from your siblings, you're all quite artistic. And they would do very different things. Isn't there an archaeologist with one of you?

Mick, who was adopted by my parents, who became an archaeologist. Yes, he made some fantastic discoveries up in Cheshire a few years ago. And I have two sisters who are filmmakers. So where did that all come from? Your dad was a photographer. Your mum did she work? My mum was a writer. She, well, most of the time she was bringing up her children.

She had six children, as I said. She'd published two novels before she met my father. Wow. And had good response as of being an interesting young voice. Then she met my father, and they started to have children in rapid succession. And then we all grew up with my mother. voicing increasingly her frustration that she didn't couldn't find time to write when she did but it was always a struggle for her to sort of leave the children to go and write but

she did and my father lent into the photography which for many years was a struggle but um we went to Ireland came back to England was she completely mad about him yes and so wherever he went she was prepared to follow well I think she led some of the she she she was very much a motivator for the move to Ireland being Catholic and loving literature and they went on a photographic job to Ireland and my parents together fell in love with it. My mother particularly because at the time having six children in England was, you know, it was quite a big thing. In Ireland it was nothing. There were families with eight, nine, ten, eleven children. So you were completely accepted.

Are you Catholic? I was Catholic, yeah, I was brought up Catholic. So, conclave, that was so, you were. That was amazing. Was it filmed in Rome? Not in the Vatican, but it was filmed in Rome, and in Chinichita, the Rome studio. My Catholic upbringing was useful.

I mean, I've always had an interest in faith and belief and from, I think that's the sort of legacy of my upbringing. And on my mother's side, we had, um, my mother's brother's, brothers were priests and or theologians and her uncles were priests and or theologians, Benedictine, monk, my great-uncle, Sebastian Moore, who's quite well-known. So I've had sort of God discussions around the table, often with my mother leading the charge on discussions about God. So she was a believer throughout her life? Yeah, she was. I think she started to be more questioning about the way that any, any religious can be dogmatic.

Yeah. And to some people, that dogmatism is appealing. And other people, they'll butt against it. When the rules of religions sort of start to sort of go against what you're living through when they become pedantic. And I mean, I think everyone wrestles with the rules, different religions, want to impose. But I think conclave was interesting about whether you could move forward. as a religion and have someone as your Pope who was completely different,

who had a different kind of following really and a different mission. But I think the Catholic Church has changed massively anyway. Do you think it has? I wondered about that. Yeah, conversations I had with priests as part of my research. I get the sense of, you know, the Catholic Church has been challenged by lots of issues. There are priests in the Catholic Church who recognise. the challenges that the modern world presents the church. I mean, you've played so many different roles,

but which one did you feel didn't leave you? Which was the hardest to leave you after immersing yourself? I know. I think the three films that I've been lucky enough to direct and play in, those were the hardest because the combination of playing a role and directing. So you're also going on to edit and confront the part you've shot. And for some reason, you're left still having to look at your film and you in it. And that's hard to leave because you're confronted with having to edit yourself as well as other people.

And so by necessity, you can't let go. It's quite a funny place to put your head because usually it's actually a relief. You've played the part who've done the research, whatever. You've been in it. You've tried to immerse yourself in the path every shooting day. Then the last day of filming, let it go, it's done. You know, I can, um, there are parts I've loved.

Do you like some more? I would, yeah. Please. Which bit? And I would fit, yeah, and if you get the potatoes from the edge, I think. That's got the most chicken on it. That's a piece of brass there. That's a bit of brass.

Have you ever had someone here, you opened a bottle of wine? Yeah. With other guests. Yeah, we've got very drunk. And they sit and they don't have to go off to do a play. Stanley Tucci was got so drunk with Sammy. I do a unravel here with... Are you wishing you didn't have to go and do the play tonight?

I can imagine another version of this where we opened a really good bottle of wine and... Oh, and we relax. Mum prefers it. I much prefer it when we open. Yeah, I would... Shut to kick Ed Miliband out. Yeah. Stanley Tootie had...

Do you want some juice on it? Thank you. Stanley Tootchi, we had two bottles of wine. He was... We were drunk. He did bring wine with him and he's a very good man. It is. He's good fun.

I bet you ate well with him. We did, we did, yeah. He's great fun. Speaking of Stanley Tucci, has he ever cooked for you? He's always at that kitchen doing a demo for us all. We all want to be invited over to that gorgeous. Stanley, you haven't actually cooked for me. You took me out for lovely meals in Rome.

And I have a memory of us talking about you cooking for me. But I can't remember that you've honoured that suggestion. You know what? I'm going to look at the camera too and say, Stanley, I think it's time for you to invite us over. And he says that no one invites them over. Well, I don't see the invite here. Stanley, I'll bring the wine.

So Ray, Lenny and Jessie will come over for dinner. And I'll bring a six pack of wine. What? What's a six pack? Of wine. Like, we're going to a house like. Six bottles. So you love breakfast, don't you?

Me too. But you haven't had breakfast today. Is this something that you don't do when you're on stage? Well, I thought I knew I was going to have a substantial. Why deny yourself a little boiled egg? I did have a bald egg. Oh, but you did eat them? You're a liar?

Yeah, yeah. I do not. It wasn't the breakfast. It's not a full English, darling. I must have a boiled egg just to have something to keep me. Just to line the stomach. Do you like it hard boiled or soft? I like it hard boiled, yeah.

Oh, you see, I need a soft boiled egg, but I will, but maybe just a slightly, slightly soft yolk, but not. But did you have bread with it? No. Just the egg? Salt and pepper I just had an egg and I had a bit of cucumber A bit of cheese

You had a breakfast I hate to break it to your own That's a breakfast You did eat before you can That's not what he feels That's a snack That's a snack Smoke salmon scrambled eggs

Oh delicious But Smoke salmon can go very wrong I feel No it can't You have to be in control Of the right smoked salmon Otherwise I feel like

If it's too thickly cut It makes them feel gross Yeah It can be slightly too fishy. It has to be from the right spot. So where do you like you? I always buy it and then I forget about it and then it goes off

in my fridge and then nobody else eats it in my house so I yeah. They're all, don't ask me to name the brand but there are brands of some of sandwich sandwich are very good I think. Yeah. Goldman's and Panzers. Panzas is good. Yeah. Pansus is the best. If you live in St. John's Wood

you're blessed. Yeah. Panzers? Yeah. Okay. It's a wonderful deli that just is so delicious. all the food is great there. Okay, I'm going to remember that. Do you, do you, so you, usually, do you live in London? Yeah, yeah. Okay, fine.

Yeah. But you've got Suffolk as well. I've got a little place I can run away to a field. I can go hiding, hiding. And then Italy? Do you go to Italy still? I do, yeah. What brought you there?

A friend of mine was renting a house, an American friend, and said to me and my then partner, please use it. And we went there and loved it. And then when this friend gave up the rental of that house, I took it on. And I've kept it. So I rented all year round. Is it near a big town? It's about 45 minutes north of Perugia.

Oh, lovely. And have you got a local restaurant? Yeah. And what would be your favourite dish there? Cheapie soup. Oh, wow. Zupa di Cici Supa de Ccei

Nona Jelsa What's that mean? I think it means Granny Jelsa Oh okay I thought it was without angels Oh Nona? Nona Jelso And then after They do this wonderful

Lamb chops Aniello Scottadita I love lamb chops You love lamb? I do too I've made Panacotta And you can either have a topping of cherries or passion fruit.

They're sour cherries though. Well, they're not very sour because I made them. Or passion fruit. What do you recommend by hand? Well, I don't know whether you've got a very sweet tooth because it's quite sweet and I quite like the cherries but I think passion fruit might make it a bit cruncher and sour. Why don't you have a bit both?

Because it won't work, darling. What do you want, Ray? This is how it works. This is us on best behaviour. This is us not shouting it. each other. I'd like to try the passion fruit. Okay.

So last supper, starter, what are we having, Ray? This is going to sound so boring because I, if it's my last supper, I want to eat things that are fresh and pure and so I would just have a selection of raw vegetables. Okay, let's not say you're dying, you're going to a desert island instead. Would that change it from raw vegetables or would it still be? I like very simple things. So if I had like some asparagus just grilled with, and I like maybe some hummus with some chopped fennel or a carrot or, I mean,

I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I swear, like, I swear this is very similar. I don't want anything really rich. I like stuff that's just genuinely fresh. It's got to be fresh. be pulled from the ground just before

and or cooked or if it's cooked very gently but really really fresh if it's my last supper if it's my last supper I want to taste the fruits of the earth

as from the purest form I mean I don't know something that's come from someone's garden or my own garden that is just and then I think I'm not a vegetarian

so I would I would love I suppose a really good steak How are you having it cooked and one of the condiments? They would just have to be really one of those states that's hung for dry, aged 40 whatever days hung, really, really tender beef, grass fed. Chips or mash?

Yes, some really good chips. Okay. Yeah. Bernets? No. No. Just make sure the steak is salted to the right degree. Yeah.

Are you good at making steak? Mm-hmm. I'm not. Can't do it. Always cock it up. Is it, yeah, I mean, or as a, the official alternative, like a healthily sourced, well-sourced fish. Which one are you? Lion caught, I guess, a sea bass.

It's not my favourite. I know it's your last episode. I like turbot. It's not doing it for me, right? Do you like turbot? Yeah, I do, I do. I like halibus hills. Do you ever go to J. Shiki after?

Yeah, everyone goes to J-Shiki. You've never been, haven't you? No, I know, but they invited me to be an ambassador. You should be. I've never bloody been. Like, how can I be an ambassador of them? It's your picture up on the board. The thing is the last supper is a hard one, isn't it?

Because it's something you might think it's got to be the most extraordinary voluptuous meal. If it is the last supper, if you know it's your last supper, like you know you're being led out to die. Oh, don't know. We're not doing that. Then I want to have something that's really simple. I don't, I don't, I, that's my instinct speaking. Not some. Not indulgent.

No. No. Pud? No. Nice cheese. Okay, what's on the cheese board? I don't know. I mean, any, any ambus selection.

You love cheese. What did you have with your breakfast this morning? It's a piece of manchego. Oh. That's unusual for breakfast, because it's quite hard. It's my snack. It's my snack. Sorry, sorry.

It wasn't my breakfast. Sorry, yeah. Did you have membrillo with it? No. Oh, membrane is good. You love menchego, membrio. Oh, delicious. Yeah, yeah.

I love a sweet condiment. I don't like thick goo. oversweet this is fantastic do you like you this is great mom yeah yeah do you like these are the tiniest cherries

I've ever seen in my life were frozen cherries darling this is really really really good maybe I'd have this do you like the passion fruit would you cook my last supper I will do darling

of course as long as I can see you every day I might have to come again actually because I enjoyed it so much you come again yeah I think I would actually because I'll bring I'll bring the blue cheese olives

and we'll have a drink together. We'll have a martini. No. Okay. I'm not invited again. Michael McIntyre was sitting behind me in the theatre. Did he come back and say hello? He did, he did.

Good. Do you find it a bit annoying when people come back and say hi? You're a bit like, oh God, can't be asked tonight. It's a funny one, right? Because, of course, you're really happy people have come to see the show. And I love it. But often, you then after, every night people are coming. You would suddenly find yourself, say,

Is there a night when no one's in, so I can just go out with my mates? Oh, yeah, of course. But it's like you have to entertain. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, you want people to course. In the end, you're very happy people that come. It's all who's in the mix, you know. I mean, also, and what the part you've played, this, I've played some parts, say Macbeth, for instance,

where you're completely wrecked afterwards. And it's hard because of what you've gone through on stage and what you've tried to reenact on stage. it's all rung out. So your social skills are kind of very diluted. Playing Henry Oving in this play isn't so bad. I mean, I love the pub. And also, on top of all that, you come off stage

with a sort of energy and you're adrenalized. So you're... So with this, I feel I come off stage, it's a, there's a sort of lovely, bittersweet ending to the play. It's not a horrendous cut your wrists tragedy. And so I think, you know, and also, you... you're often happy to see people who've come. Yes.

And so you're ready for a bit of a drink and a chat. Yeah, yeah. Before we let you go, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? I used to work with a dear friend of my father's, who was a farmer. I worked on his farm, and he used to cook saffron sausages in saffron. Oh, wow. And if ever I have sausages in saffron, which I sometimes make for myself, I'm transported back to working on a farm in summer.

That's a lovely, lovely memory. How do you put the saffron, just put it in the frying pan? Yes, yeah, yeah. Wow, because it's quite a strong taste. Yeah, it never too much. Do you like music when you're eating, or do you like to read or sit in silence? Different moods on different days. I think sometimes you're ready to have some background music.

Who would you choose for your soundtrack? I love solo vocalists, singers. So I can be anyone from Nina Simone to Johnny Cash to Bob Dylan to famous opera singers like Dietrich Fisher Descartes. I mean, I love the human voice singing. I think it's the most wonderful thing to hear a great vocalist sing. And so I would put on Edith Piaf or Billy Holliday. And modern, I like PJ Harvey.

I like, is it Rosalia? Oh my God. I'm so angry that I missed that performance. It looked incredible. I mean, I like, you know, singers. I come across new singers. I love that. Did you get pulled into Rosalia when the kind of more classical reference stuff?

Yeah. A bit of a mota, a motto, what's it, a Motta manly? No, I would, what's the recent album? Yeah, it's quite, yeah. Sophia went this week. That's why she got the merch on. Is it white, is it quite religious? Well, she's playing.

Religious notes, isn't there? I mean, she sings in about nine different languages. She's very beautiful as well. She's incredible. What do you like to listen to? Oh my gosh. No. Can you sing for us now?

No. Can you act for me now? Yeah, probably can. He's just turned it on. No, you can come to a show of mine. Okay. I'll come to. Jesse's performing at the O2, so you'll have to come and see her in November if you're here.

Yeah, you should come. Okay, I'm going to come. It's camp. Okay. It's fun. Anyway, Ray Fines, break a leg tonight. Thank you so much for coming over and being such a wonderful guest. Thank you for having me for such fantastic food.

Wonderful chicken. Wonderful panacotta. I've loved talking to you both. Good. And how long is Grace Pervades on the fall? Grace Pervades is at the Theatre Royal Hay Market until July the 11th. Okay, great. Thursday and Saturday, Matt and yes.

I sign my programme. Ray Fines wants to come again and have a boozy dinner with us. I think he was a bit jealous of Stanley's lunch. Yeah, two bottles of wine and he didn't drink at all. Poor Rave has to go to the West End now. I do a very good performance. I know. Thank you to Ray Fines for coming on the podcast.

You were brilliant, intense, thoughtful. I love the way he talked about the play because he's so immersed. And passionate about it. And it really is a tribut. to two great Victorian actors. I'm very excited to see it. And it's like a packed house. You were there and it was absolutely packed.

Everyone's stood up at the gates. He is. The food was delicious. Thank you. He had seconds. Bit hard potatoes. But then they softened. They were nice potatoes though.

Yeah. They weren't undercooked. They just weren't like, but then maybe it's better than them falling apart. They're not exactly as I did. They're not a great potato. No. Why is that? Because you didn't use Greek potatoes, Mom.

Do you think that's the reason? Yeah, that'll do it. was still really nice. Good. Your pana, quater, very delicious. Good. Thank you so much, Mum. And all done on a bad hip.

All done with my... Poorly hit. Yeah. Ray Fines is in Grace Pervades until mid-July, so go and check it out. Did he leave his telephone number? No.

He said, please give Jessica. No, he didn't. We'll see you next week for more table manners.