Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S11 Ep 16: Tom Jones

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

We were delighted to have our most requested guest, Sir Tom Jones, over to Lennie’s for lamb shanks, a lemon curd roulade and a chat about his new album ‘Surrounded By Time’. We go way back and talk about Tom growing up in the 50’s, playing marbles, falling in love and getting married at 16. We also hear about his beloved mother’s corned beef pie. He reminisces about meals shared with Elvis Presley, Las Vegas bourbons with Frank Sinatra & Tom’s son / manager Mark even makes an appearance, telling us how his Dad isn’t a very good cook..!! We loved having you Sir Tom, thank you! Enjoy! X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here back in Clapham with my mum and we're cooking for a guest today. Darling what do you mean we? Okay you. I have cooked today for a guest. You have cooked and it looks really good mum. I hope so. What's on the menu? I've done lamb shanks with a kind of herby red wine sauce and some boulanger potatoes. What are boulanger potatoes? It's potatoes where you slice them very thinly and put onion between each layer and then cut them in a stock, chicken stock.

It's like less fattening than dauphinoise because it doesn't have cream or cheese on it. But it's nice and crispy and it tastes lovely. I love it. And then I've done some caballonero. And I did make a lemon curd roulade. Which is my favourite. And it's got passion fruit in the cream.

Passion fruit in the cream. And it looks beautiful. And of course it's gluten free for you darling. Thanks mum. Now I have to say that when we did a Guess Who's coming on the podcast a few weeks back, and it actually was for Dan Levy. Yeah. The amount of people that put in the comments.

Can it be? Can it be? Say it is. And it is today. I'm so excited. The first thing I'm going to say is, what's new, Pushy Cat? Oh, Pushy Cat. Pushy Cat. What's new pushy cat oh pushy cat what's new the first thing i'm gonna say is

he would have been a good james bond tom jones do you think he could act do you know what when i first saw him he was on a tv program called ready steady go actually the slimmest hips i've ever seen yeah and he had this very curly hair that wasn't kind of cool or trendy and long slim slim hips what do you mean by that like what what era are we in decade it must be in the mid 60s madman period darling and this first song that i remember him singing was, It's not unusual to be loved by anyone. Hope he sings tonight. He's prone to singing out loud.

What do you mean? I've seen him on The Voice. People say, oh, how did that go, Tom? And he'll give you a little thing. What would you like him to sing tonight? I'd love him to sing anything. Not Sex Bomb, I don't think. Why not?

Are you sure mom what's new pussycat and it's not unusual and we could all sing my my my that's him too delilah do you remember we went to party in the park which was capital radio and he came on and it'd been rather tame till then everyone sang delilah are you sure he was at Party in the Park? Yep, he was in the Capital Party in the Park. And I remember thinking, he's an odd one to have on with all these young people. We've been there all day. Oh my God, do you remember?

We've been spending five pounds for a bottle of water. Oh my God, like my first festival experience. Capital FM, Party in the Park. In Hyde Park. And Billy Piper, I remember, did Honey to the Bee, that's you for me. Oh no, it in the Park. In Hyde Park. And Billy Piper, I remember, did, Honey to the bee, that's you for me. Oh, no, it was that one. Why'd you got to play that song so loud? Because we were to.

Yeah, Billy Piper was there, I remember. And then he sang Delilah. And everybody, all the mums were so glad there was a song they knew. And we all said, my, my, my. I mean, how old is he, Tom Jones? He's in his 80s. And still working every week. Jessie, his new album is superb.

Yeah, he has a new album called Surrounded by Time, which came out on April the 23rd. You love it, don't you, Mum? Love it. So it's a collection of cover songs that he's covered, like Michael Kuranuka, Bob Dylan, Terry Callier, Cat Stevens, Yusuf Islam.

It's really good. Oh my God. Quickly. We have Sir Tom Jones in Mum's kitchen. I was caught. I feel faint. Well, I'm not going to say what you said to me when I walked in. What about the knickers?

No, I haven't said that yet. You missed out about... Jessica! I said I wished I'd had two jabs because I'd have hugged you. Well, I mean, I'm sorry. I feel like we've got two flirters in the room. This is just going to be a big flirt off. But Sir Tom, it is a pleasure to have you over for dinner. Thank you.

And just before, we've already been chatting and it's been glorious. But the first thing we got talking on was about how you were a Shabbos Goy. So can you please tell all our listeners what that is? What happened? What was going on? Okay. Shabbos Goy. Yeah.

Is when you, the Goyim. Yeah. Who was non-Jewish. Yeah. So we were kids. The street that I grew up in. Yeah. When I got married anyway, which was like 16 years old.

And the house was, was there. My wife was Catholic. She used to go to a Catholic school. Yeah. Which was only a couple of doors away from where she lived, where I lived later on. Next door to the Catholic school was a Jewish synagogue. About 20 doors down, if that, was a Baptist chapel, all in a small street. So on Saturday, Shabbos, of course, we'd be outside, the kids playing, waiting for the rabbi to come up and, you know, the people who was going to open up the synagogue that morning. And then they couldn't do anything, of course, as you know.

Yeah. So we would be waiting for one of us to be picked to go in and put the lights on. And was it like... And my father told me that when he was young and they had boilers then, you know, with us, we just used to turn the heater on, you know, like that. It was a switch. But when my father was a boy, they used to have an olive stove or a wooden stove down in the basement to heat the synagogue.

So he would have to go down there when he was a Shabbos guy and get the boilers working. So for anybody who is a goy, and I'm sure the goyim are listening, basically on Shabbos, you aren't allowed to, if you are... Turn electricity on. Electricity, because it's...

You're not supposed to do anything. It's supposed to be your day of rest. So I love the idea that Tom and all his mates are waiting to see who the rabbi is going to pick. Did they give you money? Yeah. Good. Well, that's why we were there. What do you think, I'm a schmuck?

Sometimes you don't get paid and they think you're doing it as an honour. What, and they pay you in gefilte fish or something? No, we would hope, but they always did. Yeah. You know, fair play. And so, Horne, I didn't know that you got married at 15. 16. 16?

Yeah. Wow. How did you and your late wife meet? We were kids together in that same street, outside the synagogue, funny enough. It was after the war, you see. They used to have an air raid shelter built in the middle of her street,

you know, with a concrete base and reinforced red brick building that the locals would go in there from their houses. So at least you'd all be in one. I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing because when the bombs were dropping, we'd all be together. They'd have to know where everybody was, you know.

So they would count you and you'd go in this place, which was in the street, outside the synagogue. And we, you know, we used to go in there as children, of course, because they would drop in, well, we thought they were dropping bombs. Well, we were lucky, you see, in South Wales, Cardiff, they bombed, Swan Swansea they bombed, all of the dock areas. But then if you heard planes over Pontypridd, where I come from, they had come in too far. Now the problem was they couldn't get back to France where they were coming from, German planes of course, but they were coming from France. So they couldn't get back with a full load on, so they'd have to drop the bombs that they didn't use because they missed.

Bloody hell. Yeah, so you think, oh, shit, you know, they're going to, we're going to, I mean, I didn't know. I was born in 1940, you know, so I didn't know. I remember the noise and the siren and everything, you know, but then it was explained to me later on, if you heard the planes come over then they think oh my god you know they're going to drop it wherever they can in order for them to

get back so there was a problem you see so they had they had big guns uh up on the hills you know around the valleys to in just in case if they come in far, they try and knock them out before they can unload. So you and your wife would have been babies in this air raid shelter? Yes, I was born in 1940, she was born in 1941. So when did you start going out, when did you start being boyfriend and girlfriend? Well, after the war, they knocked this shelter down and and they kept the concrete slab, you know, the big slab there. Well, she used to play marbles on the concrete slab. And I was walking with my friends, because she lived in a different street to me,

just around the corner, really. But you'd have to go out of your way off the main drag to go into the street where she lived, where the synagogue was. So as I was walking through i saw her playing marbles and she had great legs you see so you weren't impressed by her skillful marble play no no she was there you know giving it that and i went who is that you know like when i was i don't know nine or ten or something like that you know when you first start noticing girls not as you know they become different things and they're just a pain in the ass they

become more interesting they become yes you know you look at them in a different way so there she was playing Marvel so that's the first time I was aware of her but I remember she used to go to the Catholic school and as Protestant kids I did anyway I used to look at the Catholic girls and think wow exotic because they all wore earrings see why well when Catholic kids are born they get their ears pierced when they're young so we thought that that was like very exotic because the Protestant girls didn't have that you know so I remember seeing the Catholic girls around there with these earrings. And you see, didn't you used to have your ear pierced?

I did. Yeah. Yes. And so you were already married when It's Not Unusual came out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I can remember watching you on Ready, Steady, Go. Yes. And this fantastic. You had hips like snake hips. Yes. Fabulous. Yes. You wore the rabbit. Rabbit's foot.

And you were real sexy. And they were kind of putting you forward as this sexy bloke with this fantastic baritone voice. Yes. And no one knew you were married, I don't think, at the time. No, exactly.

Yeah. They kept it quiet. They kept it quiet, which they used to do then, you see. Like marriage, oh my God. You know, you can't be married. Because none of the young girls will buy the records. That's what they thought.

Yeah, right. So, you know, it was the front of the Daily Mirror. I remember seeing it. After I had It's Not Unusual, number one it went to very quickly. Then, oh, sorry, girls, but Tom Jones is already married. And where did it go in the charts after that? It stayed. It was no problem.

Jesse, it was such a good song. I know. But I remember doing a Ready, Steady, Go, and I was talking to T-Bone Walker, who was a blues guy, and the girls were looking through the glass, you know, the studio, oh, Tom, you know, you're married, oh my God. You know, they were all like, oh.

You know, but the general public, thank God, it didn't affect it. But the young girls were a bit upset. I want to know about this 16-year-old wedding. Like, did you get a say on the choice of meal that you had? No, because you see, what happened, the honest truth, is my wife and myself really started going out properly. I left school at 15, which was 1955. She was still in school because she was seven months younger than me.

So I finished, I started working in a glove factory. She was still in school. So after I would finish work i would go and you know she would just come out of school and we started going around the hills of south wales you see and one thing led to another of course started with kiss chase before i had tb i had tb from the time i was 12 till I was 14. Shit. Two years? Yeah, two years in bed, in the house.

And your lungs held out. Yeah. Well, see, it was a blessing in disguise because they said, whatever you do, you can't go down the coal mine. My father was a coal miner, you see. So I'd knocked that out. So it was a blessing in disguise because it stopped me. I would have become a coal miner, but that stopped me. So for two years, from 1952 to 1954, I was bedridden.

And I could see my wife outside going up the hills with kids playing because all the kids were all around. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I remember feeling an ache in my chest. You know what they say about heartache? Well, I felt heartache. Honestly, when I was 12. And then when I was 13, of course, like that.

But all through, especially from 13 to 14, when I could get out of the house, you know, I was then moving around a bit. And I could see her through the window going up the side of the thing, you but I a friend of mine you see used to keep a check on her because he knew I liked her so I said keep an eye on Linda and make sure that she's right okay and so so when you had your wedding what did you eat wait a minute okay sorry go on carry on kiss chase this is this is about food I forgot and kiss chase we like a little kiss okay it was kiss chase and she said she realized because Come on, we were at Kiss Chase. This is about food, I forgot.

And Kiss Chase. We like a little Kiss Chase. Okay, it was Kiss Chase, and she said she realised, because when I kissed her when we were kids, there was something different there. So when we got married, we had to have it done quickly because she was pregnant, and by the time, you know, when the shit hit the fan... So you caught her then, Tom.

Pardon? Kiss Chase, you caught her. Yes, exactly. I caught her then tom kiss chase you caught her yes exactly i caught her one on the kiss chase so anyway we you know we started as young people do uh together you know but we fell in love you see we were in love a lot of kids fall in lust you know what i mean uh but we didn't thank god it was the real deal and i mean i I remember when I had TB and I was like aching for this girl. Had you kissed her by that point? Oh, the kiss chase.

Kiss chase, okay, that was like 10, okay, 12. Exactly. So then I was there, but I was, you know, I knew there was something about this girl, you know. I just felt strong for her. So I come out of bed and then I used to go to the local shop for my mother to pick the groceries up. And she would be using the same shop. Felly, rwyf wedi dod allan o'r ysgol ac roeddwn i'n mynd i'r siop lleol i fy mab i ddod i'r ffwrdd i ddod â'r groeseriaid. Ac fe fyddai hi'n defnyddio'r siop yr un.

Felly, os oeddem ni yno, byddwn ni'n gweld rhywbeth i'w ddod i gael y siop gan ein hunain yn hytrach na mynd â'n mam, a oeddwn ni'n ei wneud hefyd. Felly, pan oedd gennym gyfle i fynd i fy mab, fe dweudais, «Ach chi eisiau rhywbeth i lawr y siop, ma'r mawr?» Yn fawr, byddwch chi'n gwybod, «Ie, caw i gael rhai bwyd neu beth bynnag, a byddaf yn y lawr yma. Ac, wrth want anything down the shop, ma'am? You know, yeah, go and get me some potatoes or whatever it is.

And I would be down there. And Linda, of course, nine times out of ten, she would be there. And my mother had to come around the corner and she'd say, come on, for God's sake, your father's waiting for his dinner. You know, you've got the bloody, you know, stop talking like Linda Trenchard, her name was. Linda Trenchard, you know, come on. So, you know, you try to like, you know, try to be cool,

but mom's calling me. Okay. So that was it. So then when she became pregnant, you see, she didn't show for a long time. So when she did, it was like, you know, she was getting close. And then they said, well, what do we do? Now there's a big kerfuffle then, you know.

My grandmother came to the house and my mother you know all the family came around oh you can't you know you can't let this boy get married at this early age I was there with Linda we were in the kitchen talking right and all the family was there you know trying to work out what's going to happen right and my mother god bless her she said look at this we're all discussing what these kids are going to do with their lives and they're oblivious to what we're saying and i said but what you know like we were like boom you know like that she said you can see them if this child is born out of wedlock which was this is him there yeah this child your mark is here and also is your manager yes yeah see so he did very well

out of this so married in March and then born in April married in March born in April married on March the 2nd yeah

because it was all like January and February it was all oh oh so anyway so by the time they made up their minds

and my mother said please let's not get in the way because you can see I know true love when I see it, and there it is. So she said, if we don't let them go ahead with it now, and the child would be born out of wedlock, which was a big deal in those days, they're going to get married anyway.

As soon as they turn 18, and we won't have a say in it, they'll get married, I know they will. So which family did you live with, hers or yours? Well, we didn't live together at the beginning. It's a good question, because her father had tuberculosis, but he was in hospital with it, so they didn't really want me to go close to her house because he would be coming home in the weekends and things like that,

and I was susceptible because I'd already had TB. So that was a bit of a problem there. But we got married in a registry office because religion, again, came into it. So she was brought up Catholic, you see. Her father was Church of England, but her mother was Catholic. She went to a Catholic school, went to a Catholic church. And I was Protestant, went to a Catholic school, went to a Catholic church. And I was Protestant, right? Went to a Presbyterian chapel.

So we thought, you know, it's got to be done fast, so we don't want to be, you know, getting all this stuff together. And my sister was about to get married. Oh, see, oh, no, you stole her limelight. Well, so all this came together very quickly. We went to the registry office in Pont-de-Prix and got it done fast. Went back to our house, and I think, I don't know what it was, my mother did a, she used to the registry office in Pont-de-Prix and got it done fast. Went back to our house and I think,

I don't know what it was, my mother did a, she used to do a great pie. She used to do a corned beef pie, my mother, in a big tin. Yeah. Because, you know,

during the war and after the war, everything was on ration. So she could make something out of nothing. You know what I mean? Was she a good cook? Oh, great cook.

Oh, my grandmother, my father's mother, was a professional cook. Oh, great cook. Oh, my grandmother, my father's mother, was a professional cook. Oh, really? Yeah. So anyway, so we had one of these pies. So it was corned beef,

onions, my father loved onions, so gravy, you know, it was a big thing. Lovely. Yeah, so she, so that's what we did,

we went back to our house. How many people came? Only just a close family, my sister, her husband, a to-be, they even engaged at the time and you were there mark was there mark was it yes sure but when did you start singing like i mean were you singing a choir when i was a child i never went in for choir singing i didn't particularly

like it you know i didn't i didn't want to be locked into anything i always wanted to be a free spirit even from a child you know I said I'll sing what I want to sing when I want to sing it not you know like that so when I was in school the first recollection that I had about soul singing you know gospel music yeah I sang the Lord's prayer you know in religious instructions and they said you you you were sounding like a gospel singer i said i don't know i go to a presbyterian chapel we sing hymns on a sunday afternoon you know but that's that's about as far as it goes jesse and i i was talking about your new album which i love yes it's, thank you. It's very bluesy.

Yes. But I said to Jesse, well, I think Tom's really a blues singer. And Jesse said, no, he's a soul singer. Well, see... What are you? Well, that's a good point. With soul singing, you see, it all comes from the church. You know, Al Jolson, for instance, I was a big Al Jolson fan when I was a kid.

Yeah. And I loved what he did. So who are your real fabulous, the people you look up to, your idols when you were growing up besides Al Jolson? Well, besides Al Jolson. Were they blues singers? Yes. You see, Jessie?

Yeah, yeah. You see? I knew I got it right. Well, but gospel as well, though, you see. There's gospel, blues, and then it turned into what we know as soul. But that only kicked in in the 60s, where they used soul music. Well, it's interesting because, obviously, I did a BBC show that you presented and sung on with Beverly Knight.

Yes. And it was a gospel, it was on Christmas Day. In Cardiff. In Cardiff. And we had these choirs, and I fantastically lost my voice. I lost my voice the day before, which is always really great when you're doing a television special on Christmas Day with Tom Jones.

But I remember hearing you sing and it just being, and you told stories about these gospel songs that you were singing and it was so beautiful to hear. And to hear you singing with this choir it was gorgeous it totally makes sense the origins of so that's what I was influenced by

I'm sure like Al Jolson was when he was a kid he must have heard people singing that kind of music it's not unusual your first so what was that thought of at the time? It was pop. Was that a pop song? It was pop, wasn't it? Pop song. What happened was, we tried a song first of all called Chills and Fever, which was like a rock. Good title.

Yeah. Rock soul type thing. And that's what Peter Sullivan, who my recording manager was, thought that's what I would get a hit with. Right? And I thought so too. But I could sing almost anything, really, which is sometimes is a, I think it's an asset, but people can't put a label on you. You see, that's the problem. So we did Chills and Fever. It didn't make it.

Then I did a demo for Sandy Shore that Gordon Mills and Les Reed wrote. I did the demo on it to give to her manageress. Anyway, she wanted the song for Sandy Shaw. Now Sandy Shaw had already had a couple of number one records. So I did the demo on it, they sent it to her and that was, so she said, whoever's singing it, God bless her, whoever's singing this, it's his song. Well, I had to fight for this song you know i said excuse me you know after i did the demo on denmark street i said that's it so they said what what do you mean that's it i said that's the song we're looking for is right there now you know i can i can write a million of those gordon mill said he never did but uh which song was it I'm still waiting there's always it's not unusual oh that

she was going to sing that song bloody was she pissed off that you didn't send it because it was bum chipa bum see and she'd had

a couple of bum chipa bum chipa bum chipa yeah there's always something there to remind me

yeah those kind of things yeah oh okay those things you see and you said no well I said I want that song. Yeah.

So, thank God for her, she said, whoever's singing this, I can't sing that like that. So, I'm glad they asked me to do the demo. If they'd had a girl to do it, she might have done it. So, how old were you then? 24. 23, 24. Living in London? Yeah, yeah.

We were living in Ladbroke Grove. We had moved to London. Yeah. You know, trying to crack crack it waiting for the song you know so we tried this chills and fever in the summer of 64 didn't make it so but towards the end of the year when I finally said I want that song so Peter Sullivan said look if we tried it a milder version didn't happen he said it's not happening I said I know it can happen you know with the right arrangement i don't know what it is but i know it can and then les reed who was

arranger as well said what about if i put brass just to play the same bapt but as the bass drum is doing so peter sullivan said we'll give it a shot let's see because he said it's got to kick before you even open your mouth right so they live we lifted the key put it in c which is high yeah and uh that's it was it hard for you to sing it no easy i mean i know i know i've done the demo on it you see so i do the song inside out so to me it was it was easy and of course boom there it was. So how did Linda feel about when it went big? Right. Was it weird for her and you?

Well, no. She knew I was after it. She knew because she used to hear me sing when we were kids. And then in the pubs and clubs, she'd come to these workman's clubs with me to see if she should get more nervous than I did. In Wales? In Wales, yeah.

With a band, I took a little rhythm section in there and we did these shows mark can i ask you if you don't mind well i'll ask your dad what was one of your mum's like your favorite dishes that your mum did or your dad did actually was was your dad a good cook did he cook not me no i couldn't boil an egg no i can't we went out he was on a cooking show once when we were doing a promo tour in Europe. Yeah. He was nearly freaked out that he was standing by a kitchen sink or whatever. But see, my father was a coal miner. Yeah.

My mother was in the kitchen. She ruled the kitchen. Yeah. I used to help her when I was a child, you know, peeling potatoes and doing all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And I would like being in the kitchen with my mother but when I was when I got a bit older my father said look excuse me stay out of the kitchen all right so it was to me so you just never you you got to enjoy but you never really

learned any dishes love cooking no my father loved my mother's cooking at one point he wouldn't need anybody else to cook so who's cooking for you now? Well, I've got a man that works for me, Ben. And he cooks? Yes. And he cooks? Yes, he's my assistant and butler assistant. Oh, yeah, come cook. Do you know that's all I'm after in my life?

You would like a butler that doesn't wear any clothes? No, I would. Just bend my clothes? No, it's just... Fantastic. He cooks different things. He was just cooking over there this afternoon When Mark came over

And we tried a little bit of meatballs Just a little bit That's alright So you've still got an appetite for what we're giving you I hope so And you tell me it's lamb and I'm Welsh That's why I did it Mum did lamb shank

Which we hear you are a fan of. Love it. Good. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, go on, Mark, sorry. So, Mark, what did your mum used to cook that felt really memorable that you really loved? I can't remember.

I mean, in the 50s, everybody was going after things like fish fingers. Do you know what I mean? It was the beginning of, really? That felt really exciting. No, it was convenience food frozen food yeah exactly it was so exciting

but was Linda a good cook? oh yeah what did you love of hers? she could cook anything like my mother, she learned a lot from my mother and she learned to cook so my my mother and she uh she learned she

learned to cook so she could cook any anything you wanted really she got to become a really good but you lived in the states for a long time yeah yeah where bel-air then beverly hills oh yeah why did you come back my wife died after she died you felt better here yes well mark and my son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren are here yeah so what was i doing over there no it's true you know so thanks mark but if you remember any i love the fact that you've your your poor mother you went i loved fish she was a very young woman you see yeah because i was don't forget she was still growing up when i was a baby yeah really so uh it's we had an interesting time the three of us to be honest it must have been quite a ride like being in it together and exactly i mean you must remember so much of your dad's career like the start did you go to all his gigs no he's too young he was too young in wales

you see oh but when i was playing the clubs and everything, Mark was only a kid. But then when It's Not Unusual came out, of course, the press were, well, Mark will tell you, they were all after him in the playground, you know. Oh, no. Do you remember it? Yeah. Well, vividly. It was a shocker for me. Oh, that's so horrible. That's when your life changes. You remember the day? It was on St David's Day in 1965, so I was eight. And all of a sudden, that's...

It was amazing. You hope for the best, but it changes your life. But here we are today. Look at this. Do you love doing The Voice? I love it. Just kind of, what do you love about it? Well, I'm still in the business without singing.

Yeah. Well, I sing sometimes. Yeah, but you've got an album out now. Well, yes, but do you know what I mean? I'm sort of with musicians. You get a chance to go and have a bit of a sing as well. But I can help young singers as much as I possibly can. Yeah.

You know, and to try and give them some wisdom that people gave me. Yeah. When I was growing up. You know what I mean? You pick up information from, as you know. Oh, I love it when you sing. You know, yeah, so. Oh, I love it when you tell a story and you say, oh, when I was singing with Elvis.

Yeah. Or when I was singing with, you know, Bob Dylan. Frank Sinatra, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's sung with everybody, Jess. I want to know, are there any really memorable dinners with any of those people? Frank Sinatra, Elvis.

Did you ever have any dinners that we must know about on Table Manners? Yes. Are we allowed to know? No, Elvis Presley, he didn't like to go out. Oh, you're kidding. Just because he was too famous? Well, he said that.

I said, but Elvis, if you're going to have six fellas walking in front of you saying, get out the way, Elvis is coming. I said, it's not very, you've got to dress down. You've got to, you know,

you've got to put a hat on or something. Oh, did he always dress up in those suits? Yes, but he loved. Oh my God. Elvis Presley loved being Elvis Presley but he would say oh how do you do it Tom you know how do you go I said because you you go unannounced there are play you've got to make sure where you go and you can't go wandering about of course but it can be done so he would have dinner in his suite

and we would sometimes eat up there but he loved junk food you see yeah he used to keep a pizza under his bed oh my god just in case he had munchies in the middle of the night oh my god that's a great i mean he's my kind of guy i knew i liked pizza under the bed pizza's great but but i was in was in Hawaii with him when I was in Hawaii. And he had pineapple on his pizza. Exactly. In 1969.

And we went, I went to his house to hang out with him because he was staying in Hawaii and I was doing some shows there in 69

when I had my TV show. So, I went out to his house in the afternoon and we had hamburgers. Well, that was like the big thing that he loved yes yeah so that was it you know i remember having lunch there uh hamburgers and

salads and stuff like that was he handsome oh yeah yeah striking striking i think that that's i mean he did sound different as well mind you uh but that became it was like almost an accident you know because he liked blues rhythm and and blues, gospel music, especially. But they wanted him to, you know, what, what we're going to do with Elvis. They didn't know because he loved a lot of things, you know. He had a gorgeous voice. Yes. So we happened to trip over, you know, we're doing the first one.

That's all right, mama. You know, it was like that. So, but he had a different sound, but it was his look, you see. Yeah. It was his look, you see. Yeah. It was his look. He looked better than, you think of the most handsome fella you've ever met. He was so beautiful, Jesse.

You can't imagine. Honestly, and then he walks in. You know what I mean? In his day, before he put on that weight, which was a shame that they've got footage of him like that because he wasn't. I knew him when he was you know young and like that but he didn't wear the best outfits

then did he? Well he loved you know he got into that you see that Vegas thing that Vegas thing with the collar up and the shoulders I mean he got married in Las Vegas you know before he started working there so you know he did love Vegas. Did you have a residency in Vegas? No I used to go well

sort of I would play there when Elvis was there at the same time and Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis you know the Rat Pack and all that. In the 60s, late 60s, early 70s I would do a month straight. One month per year. Two shows a night

for a month straight. Your voice must have been unbelievable. Exhausted. Yeah, I got nodules on my vocal cords because of it so anyway that was it and we were all there together so as far as food was a concern um i had to eat in i tell you what i used to have exactly i'm gonna send you i'm making some jewish penicillin tom i'm making some this weekend because it's passover and i'll send some to you please

definitely mum I'm actually really hungry now can we get the old lamb shank do you want me to I was looking forward to chicken in a pot

or oh I'm so sorry I thought I was going to have a Jewish meal here tonight no I love lamb shanks tell me about Frank Sinatra

yeah nice guy yeah oh yeah what did he drink he drank bourbon and coke and did you join Tell me about Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Nice guy? Yeah, oh yeah. What did he drink? He drank bourbon and coke. And did you join him drinking that? Oh, yeah. One night, I'm walking through the casino in Caesars Palace

to go and see Sammy Davis. Yeah. I was following him in. You also sang really well. Oh, great singer. I mean, actually, amazing. A nice Jewish boy. Yes.

So I was going to go and see him. really well. Yes. Oh, great singer. I mean, actually, amazing. And nice Jewish boys. Yes. So, so he said, so I was going to go and see him. I was following him in. I was going to go into Caesar's Palace after,

after him. So I go in a little bit early to see whoever was on. Yeah. So I was going to, and I knew Sammy Davis, you know, from 65.

And, so I went in there. This was about 1970, 71, somewhere around there. And, so I went in there this is about 1970 71 somewhere around there and so I'm walking through the casino past this Galleria bar which was a big bar in Caesars Palace on my way to see Sammy Davis and I hear Thomas and I said oh that's Frank so I turn and he's there at the end of the bar roped off you know nobody else can go in there alright

and so he says Thomas come here and he tapped the stool by the side of him so I said well look

I'm going to see Sammy Davis he's going to be going on he can wait he said I said well I wouldn't want to be

the one to hold his show up no no he said just a quick drink you know you won't be late. So I sat with him and I had a, he was drinking, I said, what are you drinking? He said, bourbon and coke.

He said, that's what I like. Okay, great. So he had that, I can't remember what I had. And so we were sitting there and a young lady came past and said, oh my God, Frank Sinatra and Tom Jones together oh my god like this right could I have a picture she came up with a little camera to take a picture of the both of us and he said Frank Sinatra said if you want a picture there's got to be a good one so he calls the camera girl over there's work in there in the thing and he said this young lady

would like a picture of Tom and myself so let let's have it done properly. Not with that little camera that you have, sweetheart, he said. And that was it. And I thank God that happened because I have the picture now. Oh, that's so lovely. You know, a proper picture of the two of us at the bar. It would have been, you know, I wouldn't have had it otherwise. So, yeah, that was it. So he was...

Which music did you enjoy listening to? Did you like Frank Sinatra? Not so much as I liked Elvis Presley. But I learned to appreciate him more when I got older. Yeah, me too. His timing. His phrasing as well. Exactly.

But rock and roll began when I was 15 years old. You know what I mean? It hit like a hammer. So anything that wasn't rock and roll to me when I was a years old. Yeah. You know what I mean? It hit like a hammer, you know? So anything that wasn't rock and roll to me when I was a teenager was nothing. Yeah. You know? So then you get older,

and that's why we call this album Surrounded by Time, because it does make a difference, you see? When you get older, you look at life in a different way. All the different parts of your life. So when I got into, yeah, when I got into my 20s, 30s, I was then starting to realize how good Frank Sinatra did sing. You know, you've got to listen to him to know how really well he sang. And so I got to appreciate that, you know, with the thing. But I went, this is ironic, I went to Elvis, right,

and I'd recorded an album of standards, right? Yeah. So he said, I got your latest album, Tom, right, okay? I love Elvis saying that. On my life. And he said, but let me tell you something. He said, if you don't mind. I said, no, I don't mind.

He said, we leave songs like that to Frank. You know what I mean? We leave. We. He said, we don I don't mind. He said, we leave songs like that to Frank. You know what I mean? We leave. We. He said, we don't do those songs. I kind of love that, that he said we. Did you feel like, was that like the greatest song? Straight away.

Yeah. So I thought, wow, you know, this is it. Then I see Frank, you know, another night, like that night when we were having a drink. Oh my God. And he said, Tom, you can forget that rock and roll stuff. You know, you could do great jazz records they all wanted you in their gang so I thought what a situation

to be in, Elvis Presley telling me to do more rock type numbers or big ballads as well but not standards not what Frank Sinatra would be doing leave that to Frank Sinatra he said I said well I like doing them all.

And I thought, Elvis is trying to pull me one way, Frank Sinatra's trying to pull me the other way. What a position to be in. What a predicament. Yeah. I wonder whether, because it seems like you were so loved by everybody, not only fans, but, you know.

In the business. In the biz. Yes, I was lucky. You were. Because he's nice. No, I get this, but I... Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but for me, I've been with my husband since I was 18.

Yeah. And there's something that's quite grounding about having that. And I wonder whether there was something about you that you were... Yes, you were living in Beverly Hills, Bel-Air. You were hanging out with Elvis. Sure.

You still had Linda there. Frankly, you still had Linda. Yes. And there was something quite grounding about that. You were huge, famous, but... Well, she would come, you know, when we would go to see Elvis Presley, you know, Linda was with me nine times out of ten.

And he said to me, you're lucky, Tom, to have Linda. Because he said, I fell in love when I was young and I was on the road a lot, so she, I didn't you know we never went any further than that but he still thought of that girl he said that's the girl I wanted and I couldn't get her because she went off with somebody else because I was too busy doing my thing but you got married before fame happened right which? Which is true. So then you realize my marriage was solid, you see,

before It's Not Unusual. And that, I think, kept me going. You know, while I not think, I know. Because sometimes I'd get a bit large. You know what I mean? There were some Americans came over to the house we used to have on St. George's Hill, right? Yeah.

So I had a snooker room up on the top floor. And I'm playing snooker room up on the top floor. Uh-huh. And I'm playing snooker with this fellow from New York, Burke Zanft, who was a good Jewish man. Oh, my God. So he was up there. He'd be doing Passover.

Exactly. Do you want to come to my mat mitzvah? We'll get on to that in a minute. But yes, carry on. Yeah, so Burke Zanft was over there. He was a plastics manufacturer. Yeah. I got to know.

He used to come to the Kop corporate to see me sing there. So, anyway. The Copacabana. Copacabana, yeah. Oh, my. I didn't even realise it was a real place. Oh, yeah. I thought it was just a song. No, no.

Anyway, okay. This is a... Wow. Which was owned by Jules Podell, who was, again, Jewish. Okay. Yeah, we've got it wrapped up. Okay. It's quite amazing

like Tom speaks like he's a Jew because we always talk about who's Jewish the Jews just talk about but I feel like

you're claiming them hey that's why Jewish people go short necks you know that's amazing exactly so come on

the snooker on the penthouse snooker you know in the house St George's Hill I'm playing snooker with Bill we're up in the house, St. George's Hill. I'm playing snooker with Bill. In Weybridge.

In Weybridge. At St. George's Hill. Sorry, St. George's Hill. It's a posh place in Weybridge. Oh, OK, got it. Before we moved to the States. Where Cliff Richard lived. Oh, OK.

Yeah, and John Lennon and Rego Starr. So we're playing snooker up in the top room. And I supposedly got a bit large. This was in the early 70s. What's large to Tom Jones, though? I need to know this. Well, I'm drinking a bit large this was in the early 70s what's what's large to Tom Jones though I need well I'm drinking a glass of Dom Perignon champagne and I'm smoking a big Cuban cigar and I'm sort of saying well you know Burke when we were in the thing and then and then and then going on like this I was getting a bit uh you know out of my pram as we say and uh and

Linda said just a minute you know i mean she's sitting there you know with some other people and she said just just just a minute she said you don't really think you're tom jones do you and i said well yeah i am no she said i married tommy woodward soon as you start believing that you are tom j, forget it. Oh, is your name not Jones? Thomas Jones Woodward. Oh, we never knew that. Yeah, yeah, we just chopped the Woodward off. Excuse me.

So she would do that to me, you see. So I could not, and I loved that. Because I realised this girl, I can't bullshit this girl. You know what I mean? And she will not take bullshit from me i can't there's no way around it and all my life when she died i said to mark because we he was there you know we were in the hospital with her and everything and i said and he said you'll be all right you'll be okay i said no i said your mother you see she used to keep me grounded

now who's gonna save me from me yeah you know what i mean because you can get carried away you see like i started drinking a lot after she died because i thought oh the only way i'm going to get through this you know is be large yeah it doesn't work you can't do that so you've got to be real so you needed you needed to come back to the UK to be with Mark. Exactly. So thank God Mark, you know, keeps me grounded. And he does. You try it. I try it. No, but honestly, because, you know, I say, oh, so he says, just a minute.

You know, he's like his mother speaking to me. You know what I mean? Just a minute. You know what I mean? Shall I just serve everyone up? Yeah, sure. Do you want to serve everything? Yes, please. Wow. Ydw i'n dweud, gadewch i mi ddod i'r holl un? Ie, yn siŵr. Ydw i'n dweud, gadewch i mi ddod i'r holl un? Ie, yn siŵr.

Ydw i'n dweud, gadewch i mi ddod i'r holl un? Ie, yn siŵr. Ydw i'n dweud, gadewch i mi ddod i'r holl un? Ie, yn siŵr. Ydw i'n dweud, gadewch i mi ddod i'r holl un? Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr.

Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr.

Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. Ie, yn siŵr. 33. Good voices? Yeah. Yeah? Oh yeah. Would you say get into the industry, would you say just stick there? If they wanted to. Yeah. Because I said to my grandson he could be, and he's a good looking fella, plays guitar, sings, loves music, knows a lot about it, you know, he likes what he likes and he didn't like that. So I uh when you give it a shot I mean I'll help you as much as I can if you want no he said I don't think I got the nerve for it I love

the saying around the house and everything but um he said I don't think I'm cut out for it I said well it's a lot easier than you would think once you make that first step but you know you know at the beginning if you're looking at it from the outside, you think, how do those people do that? So about your new record, I mean, did you... When you do a Michael Kiwanuka cover, I mean, were you listening to Michael or was somebody... Like, were your grandchildren telling you, listen, you really need to listen to this? Or do you consume a lot of new music as well?

No, Ethan Johns... Yeah, produced Ethan Johns, yeah. He produced the original record that I've just done. So we were playing music by different people, and have you heard this one? And I said, no, I know who the kid is. I've seen him on the Jules Holland show and everything. But I hadn't really listened to him.

And then he played this song, and I said, wow, that's some song. I wouldn't mind having a pop at that. song and I said wow that's that's some song that I wouldn't mind having a pop at that you know so he said I did I think it was the only time Ethan did a song with somebody that he'd already recorded with somebody else so but he loved the song he believed in it and I just I said yeah yeah we'll have a go at that so we did so right away you, you see, you start thinking, I do anyway, especially now that I'm older, as time has gone on, into the lyrics, you see. So these things, you know, I won't lie. You know, you can't be, you've got to tell the truth.

Things like that, you see. When I was young, I just wanted to sing. But then when you, I think, hopefully, I've gotten more selective in the things that that I'm recording now because of my age and you think wait a minute I can't be trying to do something that I did in the same way as I did then I can't you know you just can't. So you learn, and the knowledge that you get, hopefully, shows in your vocal performance and the material that you pick. So it's even more important to me now than it was then.

And what's happening with touring? Will you tour? Oh, definitely. With the new songs, I can't wait. Have you got anything in the diary? Well, at the moment, I think it's the Isle of Wight in Septemberember yeah amazing yeah in september yes but hopefully we'll be able to do things before then but we've got to see how things go you know with the situation that we're in so um you could do like a tom jones special and like you could i mean i'm sure you've done plenty of them but you could probably have you know have Saturday night television. I know it's not the same as having people in the audience.

I mean, hopefully they would be able. I feel like you can do anything, really. Well, I mean, I'm still equipped like I was when I had my original TV show in the late 60s, early 70s. You know, anybody that came on, I could sing with them. What fun. So that was an asset, you see. What your favorite and you let that you ever did them well there was a few of Aretha Franklin oh did you sing together we did see saw we

did a bunch of things we did like a lot of things but seesaw being one of them and Jerry Lee Lewis oh wow yeah cool yes because I was in the 50s, you know. He was the one for me. And Little Richard, you see. So I was doing duets with these people. I'm looking across the piano at both of them because they both play piano. And I thought, my God, I was buying your records

when I was a teenager. And here I am looking at you and singing with you. It was unbelievable. So all those people that Tony Bennett came on there, you know, and I sang with him. Tony Bennett. Yeah, Sammy Davis. You know, there's a lot of people

from different genres of music that I liked and I could do it. Did you ever feel intimidated? No. You just felt like... Jesse, he's got a voice. No, I know this, but, you know, I mean... No, I never did.

Oh, man, I mean, I honestly could keep on asking you questions. Did you meet Prince? Yes, yes. And, like, did you share a meal with Prince? No, I spent a night with... Sorry, let's rephrase that. I didn't spend a night with him. I was...

After we did a show in Germany, in Cologne, TV show, we got together afterwards, and he was very chatty. He wanted to talk to me. What did he want to talk to you about? All about the recordings and what was it like when you started recording. All about music, really. So I said, what happened to you? You know, one time I tried to talk to you, you know,

and he said, that was then, this is now. What era was this? Was this like 90s prince or no no no this was uh um wait a minute let me think because it was after two because i had sex bomb yeah he was a bit ticked off for the show that i did in germany it was like a top of the pops in german why was he ticked off because he was a little bit out of favor at the time he was you know he had slave on his cheek and all that oh and he was the artist so he was pissed off that he hasn't exactly so he was going through all that stuff so he told me this afterwards they said prince will not be doing

the tv show tonight i said oh what's the matter is something wrong with him we don't know and i thought oh he might be ill then you know if you don't show up to do something, normally you're ill. So we were staying at the same hotel. So I did the show, had something to eat, went back to the hotel to go to the cigar bar that they had there. And as we were walking in, his bass player, Larry Graham, was standing there, and he said, what are you doing, Tom?

I said, well, I just did the show, didn't I? I said, how is Prince? Is he all right? And he said, no, no, he's upstairs. He's going to come down in a minute. I said, well, why didn't he do the show then? He said, I don't want to get into it. Okay.

I said, I'll ask him when he comes down. So he comes down, he gets out of the lift, and there was nobody in the lobby. So I'm about to go into the cigar bar. He's walking towards me. So I said, how are you feeling? He said, I'm fine. I said, well well and how come he didn't do the show he said because you topped the bill oh my god how embarrassing and i said i wasn't aware of that it's the top of the pops is you know sex

bomb is one of the songs yeah of course and it was doing really well obviously well of course yeah you know it's number one all over Europe. So that's what ticked him off. So he said, I thought, no, he didn't swear. He said, you know, I'm not going to do it. I kind of love that he told you that. Oh, he did. Because you talked.

So I said, I wasn't aware of topping a bill. Yeah. So he said, anyway, he said, you coming to the after show party? I said, well, you didn't do the show. He went to the after show. He said, well, I can go to the after show party. I said, well, you didn't do the show. He went to the after show. He said, well, I can go to the after show party. I love that. Just because I didn't do the show.

I love that. I said, well, if you're going, I'm going to just go and have a cigar in the bar there. Because, you know, you couldn't smoke. It started to close down a bit. Yeah, yeah. So, but it was a cigar bar. So I said, I'm going to have a quick cigar. And, you know, he said, we're going to be at such and such.

But how did you record his kiss yeah yeah i met him uh it was his birthday because we had the same birthday june 7th a different year of course but it was june 7th so if anybody is born i'd like to know if anybody else has absolutely amazing voices that were born on june 7th please if anybody yeah so so tom we ask everybody on the podcast if they were going off to a an island and they were about to have their last meal before they were going and they just you know their perfect meal and it was a starter a main and a pudding and drink of choice what do you think would be in that in that meal starting with the starter or you can start with the food i don't know if you're a sweet well i love smoked salmon me too so smoked salmon would

be i like the grill you know i used to go to the savoy grill when i used to stay at the savoy i love the savoy grill yeah yeah so um it would be smoked salmon starter, some kind of meat dish. Yeah. Could be lamb shank like we're having now, something like that. I buy always chocolate for dessert, chocolate dessert. I love chocolate. Well, I'm really glad we've done a passion fruit, lemon curd roulade, but, you know, we've got chocolate too.

That'll do. Okay, fine. So chocolate is your thing. Oh, yeah. Do you have it every day? More or less. What's your fave? Oh, yeah. Do you have it every day? More or less. What's your fave? What's the one that you go for?

I like dark chocolate. Me too. Darling, your spoon's there. Thank you, love. Thank you, Mum. It's delicious. It's got a real chew about it. I like it.

It's good. So, Tom, we have two more questions to ask you. Yes. You're not going to ask. Yeah, we are. Karaoke? Yeah, we are. Karaoke? Yeah, we are. Okay.

Do you like karaoke? In what respect? Do you ever go to a karaoke bar? Have you ever done it? No. If you were going to do it, well, I mean, maybe this is hard. Which song would be the one that you'd go and sing? I know, but like which song would you go and sing?

Well, see, 50s rock and roll. I was a teenager in the 50s. So any real Little Richard song, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Fats Tomino, Chuck Berry. They were the ones. So any one of those songs you want to pop on, I can sing it.

I have no doubt you could sing it. Well, I mean, I would know it. Yeah. You know. And then Tom Jones, do you... Sir Tom Jones. Oh. Sorry. Do you get annoyed when people don't add the sir?

No. No. What was it like getting knighted? Wonderful. Who did it? The Queen? The Queen. I had the OBE from the Queen and knighted by the Queen.

Why? Can you not... Who else does it? Charles sometimes does it. Oh, yeah. Other members of the royal family, you see you not? Who else does it? Charles sometimes does it. Oh, yeah, the other members of the royal family, you see. If she can't do it. But thank God, both times that I was honoured, she was there. So, Sir Tom Jones.

Okay. Do you think you've got good table manners? Good table manners? Yeah. I'm talking to you with my mouth full. Don't worry. I think you are the most perfect guest and I feel like we need to have you kind of do a residency here

just so we can hear all the other stories that we haven't even got round to so I've got to try and tone it down to because I get carried away no you don't, this is what we live for this is perfect, it's amazing so Tom Jones, thank you so much for coming on Table Manners thank you for having dinner and thank you so much for coming on table manners thank you for

having dinner and thank you for telling us your amazing stories and everyone go and listen to thank you my pleasure next time chicken soup I loved that. I loved it so much. He could have gone on forever for me. And I love it that he tells the story. He knew everybody, Jess. He also remembers everything. I have the worst memory.

I can't... Like, the dates that he was... Oh, yeah, that must have been 71, 72. Oh, yeah, 55. It's phenomenal. Yeah. He's a lovely man. Really, really lovely.

And very attractive, I thought. Dressed in his little jeans and his cool little jacket. He looked gorgeous. Yeah, he is handsome. Yeah, he's very handsome. And that voice, even when he talks, is gorgeous. I'm a sucker for the Welsh accent as well. Yeah, it is. It's fabulous.

I just want to thank Tom Jones for coming over. So Tom to you. We hope that you all enjoyed that as much as we did. So many of you have asked about having him on. So we hope you're happy that we delivered. And keep telling us who else you want. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser.

Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.