Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S11 Ep 20: Michelle Visage

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

We recorded this beaut of an episode with the one and only Michelle Visage, who came over to mums for a ‘Thai Pie’. Michelle talks about growing up in New Jersey, being adopted by a Jewish family and moving to NYC to be taken into the House of Magnifique where she became a part of a voguing troupe and later best friends with Ru Paul. She chats about her 90s girl group, working with Ru and the story behind her iconic name.We talk everything from her collaboration with Steps with their song 'Heartbreak in the City', to her love of the West End and Broadway! We love you Michelle, you are so so fabulous and it was heaven spending the afternoon with you. X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I am very excited about this guest. We've been trying to get her for ages. Is she your spirit animal really, Jessie? I mean, I'd like to say... Because you do talk about her a lot. I do. Like, you look up to her.

I mean, I love her on Drag Race. And I loved her when I met her in real life, when I was a judge on Drag Race. And I think now I met her in real life when I was a judge on Drag Race and I think now I've just got a huge crush on her. I think you're going to really respect how she turns up and the effort that she will have put in to meeting us. Good because I put a big effort into managing the dietary requirements today. Well there were quite a few. Yeah. No judgment. dietary requirements today? Well, there were quite a few.

Yeah. No judgment. No, I'm sure. This is for medical reasons, I think. Yeah. So bless her. She did. Michelle was very sweet and said, listen, you can have a steak, whatever.

I won't eat. But we have made the effort. Mum has made the effort. It was like the invention test on MasterChef. I've got with all the ingredients she's allowed to eat and I've made a Thai pie. You may not have heard of a Thai pie before. You may never hear of it again. Let's see what happens.

What's in it, Mum? Well, it's ginger, lemongrass, coconut milk. I've cooked all the vegetables in that. And then I've topped it. Turmeric? Did you put turmeric in? Turmeric in. Some bits. Anti-inflammatory. Anti-inflammatory anti-inflammatory yeah then I made a topping

of sweet potato yeah swede Jerusalem artichokes and carrot and she's allowed all those things all those things

they're tubers what are tubers things that grow above the ground or along the ground okay and then I've put cinnamon on the top of that

because she's allowed cinnamon. So it's a bit of a combination job. Let's hope it tastes not too bad. So yeah, Michelle, I'm sure she'll talk about this. She's doing an AIP diet, which is... Mum, are you Googling what it means? I'm looking up what it means. It's autoimmune protocol diet.

Well, it's interesting because I think actually... So we're going to feel incredibly wonderful after this meal. No drink. Unlike me, who's been vaccinated twice. Must have.

And had COVID. Yeah. You need your immune system promoting. So actually, thank you, Michelle Fassage. Yeah, she's probably saved your life. Thank God. Yeah, I can't wait.

I mean, everyone knows Michelle Fassage, I thought, but if you don't, then she is the incredible judge on RuPaul's Drag Race. She was part of the Vogue. She was on Strictly with Giovanni. Great dancer.

Great dancer. Do you remember when she was Morticia? Yeah. Brilliant for the Halloween special. She's a DJ. She's a TV personality. Is that her name? I think the house gave it to her.

TV personality. Is that her name? I think the house gave it to her. So New York scene, 80s, voguing, drag balls. I think she adopted the name Visage and I'd like to know why that came about. Okay. So yeah, she's like the coolest chick in town. Michelle Visage coming up on Table Moms.

We've got my dream girl, Michelle Visage, in mum's house. And I'm so excited to see you again. You know, we were behind perspex last time we saw each other. We're COVID safe now. But how are you? I'm wonderful. Nice to be back. And we're so grateful that you got to do this show i had honestly i felt like i was in heaven it was the best day of my life you were fantastic i loved it so much but i mean no honestly but the greatest honor was like michelle being like you're doing great and then rue just turning over and went hey jesse you're good and i was like

i think i went thanks mama i was so uncool but um but no it was just the funnest thing i mean drag race is the funnest thing in the world agreed yeah yeah it's it's a gift it's the gift that keeps on giving you know it's like first of all getting to work with my best friend like think about that it could either go well or terribly but in this it's like living first of all, getting to work with my best friend. Like, think about that. It could either go well or terribly, but in this, it's like living with your best friend. It's either good or bad, you know? Um, but we get along so well, like in life, you say you have soulmates, it could be in the form, you know, most people think of lovers or their partners, but really there's friendship soulmates. And I think we're, it was kind of like that with me. We never argue. We've been friends for 30 years. It's just we understand each other.

We can finish each other's sentences. And it's just... I saw that. Yeah. When you were like doing the, let's do it. Yeah. And you were like, literally, they were both just back. It was back and forth the whole time.

Yeah. So how did you two meet? We met in New York City in the nightclubs. So I was 18 years old and i was hired by suzanne barch who's the most incredible nightclub party thrower you know she's a party promoter but she's legendary and she's still doing it today she runs the suzanne barchies. And I was hired because I grew up in, you've seen Pose? I loved it. I basically based my whole last record around Pose. There you go. So I grew up in the Harlem ballroom scene. That's when I left New Jersey and moved to

New York City to go to theater school. My uni was a theater school. I knew nobody and I got taken into the family, the House of Magnifique. And that's kind of how it started. And that's where I met Rue. So I started voguing. I became one of the first cisgender biological females to walk in a ball in a vogue category and all that stuff. So anyway, long story short, I got hired to run a voguing troupe every week for Suzanne's parties. And Rue was also hired to be Rue at these parties parties so we would see each other but it wasn't like we were friends and then well so rue was already established no rue was established as a club kid not as rupaul right because rupaul is rupaul but not as supermodel yeah yeah that

that was like 1987 and 88 89 that's when we did the club stuff. And then Supermodel, I left to be in a girl group in 89 and 90. And then Supermodel came out in around 92. And then I had a song with a different group on the Bodyguard soundtrack in 92. And which one was it on? Lovely Day. It's going to be a lovely day. A lovely day. Lovely day.

Lovely day. Bill Withers. Yeah. We did a remake of that. And it was on the Bodyguard soundtrack. Track nine. The only non-Whitney song to make it in the movie as well. Oh, Mazel Tov.

Thanks. So Rue had Supermodel, You Better Work, out the same time that I had mine. And we did a dance music seminar in New York City at the Marriott Marquis. And I remember we were up in a green room. And I walked up to him and I was like, I don't know if you remember me from the club days. And he was like, bitch, not only do I remember you, but you're a motherfucking superstar. And it was a moment in time that froze for me to be stuck in my brain forever

because we're in a green room talking over a cheese plate, like everybody's walking around in this hotel room, and the only person that ever believed that I was a superstar was my mother. So I had never had anybody in my life support me like that. Thank you, Lenny. So it was a moment of he sees what I see. I've never been me like that. Thank you, Lenny. So it was a moment of, he sees what I see.

I've never been validated like that. Even my own record producer said, you are not Madonna. Who do you think you are? You're only who you are because we made you. It was like that. Very unsupportive. Oh, bloody gee. Oh, it was terrible.

Really terrible. When you were in the Voguing scene, was it, I mean, from what I understand of it, there was, I mean, there was competition, but it was like healthy, fun, bitchy competition, but brilliant and artistic. Excuse me, can you explain what Fogin scene is? Okay, well, I'm going to let Michelle Fazage explain. Because is it just good dancing?

No, it's more than that. I'll explain it in a nutshell. And what it means to come up, the Harlem ballroom scene was a safe space for queer people of color to compete with each other celebrate each other win trophies be validated um for who they are and it was very much their scene and the house their families their chosen families were kind of done by houses. So the house of where?

We could be in the house of where? You'd be the house of darling. Yeah, that would be your darling. You could be the house mother. And Jesse could be the house father. There are no genders. Trans people weren't called trans back then, but they existed. And they were always there.

It was like you said it perfectly, Jesse, so it shows me you know what you're talking about. There was super healthy, super bitchy, super catty competition, but it was it was like you said it perfectly jesse so it shows me you know what you're talking about there was super healthy super bitchy super catty competition but it was never mean you could be like voguing for your life or competing i i vogued and i also competed in the face category now you could be body it could be clothing it could be dance all different categories so creative yeah like they kind of and that's where drag race has kind of been imagined like it well or no no but the the term category is and we definitely borrow some things from the from the ball yeah scene and lenny you should watch pose to understand it because it's really really good i've never watched oh my god mom it's so wonderful you would love it i imagine everyone in it's like

johannes radibi strictly. Very much so. But there were that fabulous as Johannes is, and then there were not fabulous. And I was one of the only ones with my skin color. And that's what I loved. I was in an all Latinx people of color house. And when I met them in the first place, they took me in like there was never a question

of I wasn't good enough or I wasn't one of them, which is why cancel culture today is so frightening to me because the queer culture that I grew up in never existed. That didn't exist. It wasn't a thing. So it was an amazing thing. And that's kind of where I came up in when I met Ru in that day, that was in 92.

And we didn't start working together until 96 when we were, I was auditioning for a radio station to be a breakfast show presenter, and I didn't know what I was going to do because I'd gone from being a pop star to working in a strip club hosting the hot oil wrestling because I was going in there thinking I had a roommate who was making $3,000 to $5,000 a night as a stripper, and she was hot, and this was the heyday in New York City. And I was like $3,000 to $5,000 a night as a stripper, and she was hot. And this was the heyday in New York City.

And I was like, I'm going to do it. So I got my boobs done. I was ready to go. And I went there during a lunch shift, which was very kind of… What did your mother say? My mother… Did she know? I'm thinking she was alive at the time. She was…

Did you tell her? Yeah, that was 92… Yeah, she was very much alive. Yeah, she knew. But when I got there, the point was I went there on a lunch shift. Lunch shifts are always traditionally more seedy than the nighttime where it's throbbing and people are there and dancing. So people aren't going for their lunch.

There are lunches there, but I'm not sure that's what they were going for, Lenny. So when I went, I realized I can't do this I can't do the girls were kind of vacant behind the eyes and they did what they had to do and I learned a lot from these women most of them were single moms they were paying for their they were amazing they all have gorgeous bodies gorgeous which is the point that I'm talking about they just went up there they could see through these people do what they had to do, make their money and leave. But their bodies were amazing. And mine was never amazing. I either had no boobs or then I had boobs.

And I was so, whether, looking back, it was amazing to how I feel today after two C-sections and up and down in my weight. But we don't appreciate what we have when we've got it, do we? If I had a good body, I wouldn't mind being a stripper. We make loads of money. No, I just, honestly, because I think if you have a gorgeous body, you're't mind being a stripper. You'd make loads of money. Honestly, because I think if you have a gorgeous body, you're not

self-conscious. No. You just don't mind showing it off. That's what I mean. I don't think it's the end of the world. When I say I respect these women, I respect these women. I learn so much about myself through them. I just realized that I couldn't do what they were doing because, believe it or not, as confident as I am,

I'm not confident about my body. I have so many body issues. I didn't do what they were doing because believe it or not, as confident as I am, I'm not confident about my body. I have so many body issues. So I didn't do it. But it just so happened the day that I met the leader, the head, the boss of the hot oil wrestling. And he said, he knew who I was from my girl group. And he was like, oh, my God, you're looking for a job? He said, our emcee is pregnant. And she has to, of course, she can't be in a strip club pregnant doing hot

oil wrestling. Right. So she told me what to do. She was lovely. She taught me what to do. There was a script and I took over and it was like money that was coming in cash under the table. I kept my clothes on and I got to, it was like every night.

It was every night. It was like standup comedy for an hour, hour or two. It would be mostly stag dues the guys were wasted I could totally rip them a new one and they didn't care because I was this ballsy bitch with a microphone it was so fun and I did that until the bodyguard record deal and they called me and said we want you to do this record. And then I was like, oh, okay. So then that's when I left and did that. And then after that ended, what do I do? Because my solo career that I was promised was abandoned. So that's when I said, well, I have experience in radio. Every time, you know this as a recording artist, every time you go to

do a radio interview, when you would go in person, I'd say, oh, can I do the news or can I do the traffic? And they'd let me. And I grew up on radio, AM and FM. I'd listen to stuff. I'd write down the songs every New Year's Eve. And I was like, I'd be so good at this. I can talk. So I hustled my way into this new radio station because I was like, you're playing my music. I'm the perfect person to be a part of it. So I started out as the girl that the morning morning show guys, it was always guys would go, Oh, Michelle Vassach from Seduction. That was my girl group is out on the streets. You can go see her at the diner. She's got KTU t-shirts and people would come and drive up and I'd say, Hey, where are you from? You know, that type of thing. And the big bosses were in town from Chicago that were launching this huge radio

station in the number one market in the world, which is New York. And they said, who's that girl? And they came in and they were like, you're really good. You've never done this before? And I was like, no, I'm just me. The following week, they had me audition with another person and then another person.

And then it was fashion week, four weeks in to auditioning for the breakfast show slot. Four weeks with four different guys. And I got better and better each week because they were giving me more to do. One week I was just the girl on the street. The next week it was traffic.

And I never did traffic. I was making words up. No idea. Did you do the weather as well? The weather. No idea. I was lying. Like, fake it till you make it.

And then the next week was fashion week. And they said, well, we've got somebody we think we want to put you with. And I was like, great. So can you come meet us at this hotel the day before and then we'll talk about. And I was like, great. I'm in the hotel room and RuPaul walks in. And you're like, ding, ding.

Now, did he have hair then? No, he's been bald for as long as I know. Always been bald. So he walks in and he stops and he goes, now remember we had this conversation four years prior that we're, I'm a superstar. So he walks in and he goes, oh my God, Michelle Visage, of course it's you sitting here. Of course, all roads lead to Visage. And that was 9th, February of 96. And that's where our professional career began together. He then had a talk show on VH1 in the States, uh, the RuPaul show, the original one.

And he brought me in as a sidekick. And we had been working. We'd go from the radio show together, in our car together. He'd pick me up in the morning because I used to take, the radio station didn't send. It was in New Jersey and we were living in the city. So I'd have to get like on the subway and the path train at 3 a.m., 4 a.m. by myself. And he was like, no, girl, I'm going to send my car for you. So my, his car would come pick me up. Then we go pick him up. Then we go into the city, into New Jersey

together, record the radio show. We'd leave there together, come back into the city, do the VH1 taping together. Then he'd have his car drop me off and then drop him off. So that's where that relationship started. And we were just so destined to work together that he's brought me in on everything is visage your given name no my so how did you get visage great question you should do this for a living i'm not very good you're wonderful so visage means face i'd asked jesse before yeah i know visage means in fresh it's michelle Michelle your real name? Yes, that is my real name. The name of my adopted family that I was adopted into was Shoe Pack. So it was Michelle Shoe Pack.

That's not going to work on the runway. Yeah, okay. Thank you. In the ballroom scene, I said that I walk the face category. It's very Latinx and black and all sorts of cultures. So they would call me cara, which means face in Spanish, right? So I used to write it on all my jackets. I would have it airbrushed. It would say cara, which you spell C-A-R-A. And in New York, Cara is a girl's name. So I'd walk down the street

and they go, hey, Cara. And I'm like, I am not Cara, nor do I look like a Cara. So I thought visage means face in French French I'll just use visage but not thinking that saying the monsieur Michelle into visage is very difficult so every time I do an interview everybody has to do take two take three because they end up saying Michelle visage or Michelle visage it's it's not easy but shoe pack wasn't going to cut it so I told them and they didn't care my mom and dad didn't care i want to know you know when you were in the house you were all living together no that's a fallacy that part i know sorry to break it that part isn't like the pink palace no well posts have that isn't true me on this yeah that's not true it might have what you were

getting cooked if it was like latina you know like what were you having oh the best food in the world um especially dominican food puerto rican food is just unbelievable but brazilian food that is the bit that isn't really the most truthful because these forgive them yes i'm sure some did so i'm not going to speak for everybody no the ones that i knew no there'd be a house mother and maybe one would stay with them or stay with them here and there um boarding school it kind of is it's so but you don't pay but are you still in touch with your family i'm still in touch with my house father caesar yeah he is still teaching vogue at alvin ailey um and he's just he's an icon he's a legend he's everything and willie willie the late willie ninja taught me so vogue is a dance form that came from there.

And you know, Madonna did Vogue. She got it from here. Yeah, she saw it from the clubs, from the ball. And Michelle adores Madonna and looks like Madonna. So that must have, were you like, this is like the greatest thing that's happening. Madonna is acknowledging something that I am part of. Yes.

Can you just back off? This is our thing. Both. Okay okay truth be completely told both it was like hold hold on a minute like I'm the voguing diva like that's my thing were you amazing at it I was back in my day um not anymore but it was my thing but then the other part of me was like this is amazing these kids have worked so hard this is our underground culture and she's taking it to the masses these people are going to get and when lewis and jose went to dance for her there there are people yeah so that was an amazing amazing moment at the same time of a little bit of have you met her no i don't want to why you know the saying you never meet your icons right or your idols i've met some and i haven't been let down i met some

and i have been let down she is the ultimate for me i have her up on a pedestal where so many people have told me take it down she doesn't belong there i don't want to hear it. She's my everything and I'm going to leave her right up there. She's like you with Michelle. Bless you. I met her and she's been better than anything I could expect.

And she's now your everything. So taking, let's go back to growing up in a Jewish household. Yes. Adopted. Yes. Do you know where your birth family

i do so i am not biologically jewish yeah because my mother is irish hungarian catholic but my father my biological father was jewish is jewish he's alive my mother's not with us anymore both of my mothers are no longer with us but on on the upside of that, my mom, Arlene, who was the adopted, she's my mother though. So for all intents and purposes, she's my mom. And then I'll say my biological. How old were you when you adopted? I was four months old. I was in foster care until I was four months.

And then I was given to my mom and dad, which waited a while to get me. And then three, they like filed. So that's quick for an adoption. It is. Three more years they had to wait for my brother. You'd which waited a while to get me. And then three, they like filed. So that's quick for an adoption. It is. Three more years they had to wait for my brother. You'd wait for a year here. My brother was three years, even back then. So we're not biologically related, my brother and I.

But Arlene was my mom and Marty is my dad. He's still alive. He's 82. Yeah. And they, my dad grew up pretty Orthodox, pretty strict in Baltimore. And my mother, you know, they were Jewish family. My aunt, her sister's still with us, and she's pretty Jewish. So I grew up with my mother always did Thanksgiving,

and always did a night of Passover. Did you do Yom Kippur? Did you fast? Yes. They would do that. Yeah. So around the dinner table at your family home, what was a really memorable meal for you? Your family home sounds way more loving than mine was in the sense that, and I don't mean it in a bad way,

but I always had issues around food. I never liked meat, even when I was young. And my parents, Americans, man, they would set the timer if I didn't eat at a certain time. So it's no wonder I had eating disorders. You eat very early, don't you? Oh, it's not even the time. It's like if I didn't eat the meat in a certain amount of time, I was getting a spanking. Like that type.

Yeah, it was really bad. And I'm not trying to bring the tone down, but this is why. So my parents were both obese. So they would cook meat, starch, potato, starch, another sweet potato. Like it was just starch, starch, starch, meat. I never liked meat. So I would chew my meat. I remember like faking a cough and putting it down so the dog would eat it.

Or I'd go into the bathroom and I'd spit it into the toilet. And then my mother's like, why are you going to the bathroom so much? I'm like, oh, my stomach hurts. Every night there was a red meat. What I loved about her, my mother was a good cook. What I'm upset about is she never let me learn with her. She was an incredible sewer and an incredible cook. She used to teach sewing. She'd always kind of kick me out unless we were making Christmas

cookies or something like that. But what I loved, I loved when she would make a pork chop with She made pork. I told you, honey. Oh, you see, no, we would never do that. I mean, honestly, I couldn't do that. This is like, you were secular

Jews. My auntie, Like, it was like you were, yeah. My auntie still, she was considered conservadox. Like, the bar mitzvahs of her kids, she has four sons, three and a half hour bar mitzvahs. Oh, you're very. Those. Yeah. My mother and father were like, no. But they would let me know that they were very proud Jews.

They just wouldn't do, like, you know, we were adopted and my mother knew that we weren't biologically Jewish, so we had Christmas and Hanukkah. So I was... That's kind of good, though, isn't it? No, it's wonderful. I went to Hebrew school, but I also went to Bible chapel. So it was confusing. Like, I was like, is Jesus coming back?

Is he here? Has he got a son? Like, what's the story? So, okay, you love to pull. Pork chop and her red cabbage. I loved her green beans. My mother made the, this is a really sad but true story. My mom and I were very close, very connected.

Talked to her three to four times a day, right? After she passed away, my favorite thing that my mom made was homemade chicken soup. And she would make homemade turkey soup. And her matzo balls were to die for, but they don't freeze very well. and she would make homemade turkey soup, and her matzo balls were to die for, but they don't freeze very well. So for a year, up to a year after she died,

I had a freezer full of her chicken soup. So every time I missed her, every time I got sick, I would just make some of her chicken soup, and a little piece of Arlene was always with me. Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah, it's amazing. But so how did the collab come about with Steps? Because I don't think that you do that many collaborations. Am I right?

No, the only person I ever collab with is Ru, usually. We've done plenty of songs. So it's like RuPaul and Steps, right? Yeah. Why did you decide on doing this song with Steps? How it happened is Faye and I struck up a friendship because we had the same partner on Strictly. How did you? Oh. Different

years though. Different years. Who's your partner? Giovanni. Of course different years. So we were commiserating. Is he gorgeous? Absolutely gorgeous. But a tough nut to crack. He's really tough and he's a taskmaster and that's totally fine because I wanted that. So I'd cry to Faye. She'd cry to me. She'd be like, I know.

You know, that type of thing. And it was, you know, we were obviously celebrating everything, but we were talking about this is the hardest thing I've ever done, my body. And then she said, we became friends. So she said, hey, we have a new album coming out. We're playing Royal Variety. Do you want to do an Instagram Live to announce the album? I was like, sure, I'll host it.

So we did that. And you know as celebs do, they'll go, oh, let's do this together. Or, hey, I'd love for you to do a song with me. It's like, yeah, yeah. It never happens. The minute I got off the Instagram Live, it must have been like an hour later, I got an email from their manager saying, they really want to do the song with you. And I was like, okay.

So they sent me the track off of What the Future Holds, and it's like one of my favorite tracks from the record, which was Heartbreak in the City. And, um, I, I did recorded my part in LA and I thought, how, and I went, even when I was singing, I was trying to be breathy and poppy. And I was like, how am I going to sound? Cause I'm a Broadway belter type of girl. How am I going to sound like a stepper? And then I thought their producers are wonderful. So I had a great producer in LA called Mark Holick and they, he did it, produced my vocals and sent I thought their producers are wonderful so I had a great producer in LA called Markaholic and they he did it produce my vocals and sent it on to their producers and when I heard it I was like oh my god I'm Michelle from Steps but like Michelle you you've got a voice and it feels and

it feels I'm Michelle from Steps I was Michelle from Steps but it's it's it's so it works so well and it makes so much sense to, I think, everybody. And it's just so lovely to see. But I mean, you also did everybody's... Talking about Jamie, yeah. Everybody's talking about Jamie. And so did Faye. It's a small world.

So you've been in it? Yeah, I was on the West End tour. Oh, Jessie, I really want to see it. It's so fun. They're doing a film. The film's coming out. Oh, the film? Oh, you were in the film?

No, because I had to do a Sheffield accent. I don't think in the film that would have been so forgiving. Do you want to get tickets? Yes, definitely. Because I've still got a voucher with Annabelle. What, because we couldn't get our other one? Get up, stand up thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So we are going to eat in a minute. But before we eat, there's a reason that there has been, mum has made a, what have you made? A Thai pie. I don't even know what it's going to be like. Well, I'm going to love it. I did want to ask you before I do that. So it's like basically all the vegetables you can eat.

And I've put it with coconut milk and lemongrass. Oh, I'm so excited. And ginger, which all the things you can eat. You allowed those things? Yes. Okay, great. I've done everything for it. Full protocol.

And I put the topping is sweet potato. Oh, you are glorious on roots and things do you want me to do some griddle baby gem lettuce to go with it no this is lovely or you think that's enough so so there's a reason why am i eating like a fool there's there's a reason you are quite restrictive with your diet diet at the moment you have hashimoto's yeah i've always been really honest and open about talking about my struggle with autoimmune and Hashimoto's and celiac. And I contributed all to my breast implants, which I had taken out two years ago. And I have a documentary called X-Plant, which is coming out very shortly.

There's so much explosive information in this documentary that I just want people to know about. I'm not anti-plastic surgery. I'm all for it. But we women weren't being told the truth about implants and things like that before we put them in our bodies. And for me, I just want the information out so women could be their best advocate and make an informed decision. So my health has gotten better since they've been out, but because of... Well, do you think they were just poisoning your body?

They are. They do. It doesn't happen to everybody. But it's got nothing to do with the silicon it doesn't matter that's the fallacy it's the casing of the implant it's got 40 plus chemicals in it that are so bad for your body and your immune system can't help but to respond which is like ah so doing the AIP protocol autoimmune protocol autoimmune paleo now I don't eat meat so it's a lot more difficult but what is your protein oh there's plenty of protein in all those vegetables you put in there

that's the thing that sam always says to me because i put a bit of protein powder in my um in my porridge today but sam was like babe you're being mad you're so obsessed with protein everybody's so obsessed about protein being from chicken or meat but um doesn't have to be i serve it in these plates a lot nice okay amazing oh i like those plain um so tell us you you're doing this aip so what that is is a 30 to 60 day protocol to get rid of everything in the world that is considered an inflammatory food so it's no nuts no beans no seeds no leg, no legumes, no sugar, no dairy, nothing from the nightshade family, eggplant, pepper, even goji berries. So even like a vanilla is a bean. You can't have, it sounds abysmal. Are you so bored? So bored. But at the end of 30 to 60 days,

you start adding things back. And I do feel clearer. My brain fog is less. I struggle with horrible, you call it tinnitus, from recording for all those years and having headphones on for nearly 20 years and the radio station. And I blasted my music. So when I eat properly, yes. Oh, wow. Yes. Because the inflammatory response goes much lower. So how many days are you on now?

This is like my third week. so how many days are you on now this is like my third week my doctor said um i could have we were somebody bought me these amazing cupcakes that were gluten-free and vegan but they had sugar so my doctor said you can have two cupcakes that's it and then and then shows over right look how amazing this looks i wish you guys can smell your let me i promise you it's gonna be amazing usually like mom said it's kind of been like the master chef and what's it invention test but you know what it's all the good stuff for you we we will all feel incredibly virtuous at the end of this meal you're gonna feel so healthy eating it oh look at it like are you finding you're getting really excited about a bit

of wilted spinach now yes wilted spinach wilted asparagus wilted broccoli what are you what are you missing what are you missing we didn't put salt in there by the way i will need salt okay fine great i'm an american no if you yeah salt i can have i might have put a bit on the green thing i can have salt so so what are you missing or actually i'm a sugar addict oh okay sugar is my downfall I don't know I think this is going to taste like

heaven for Michelle because the poor cow's been eating so how are you finding eating in London like are you basically having

to have like a you don't need to be polite no I cook I wouldn't be polite I'm a New Yorker I cook for myself and it's a lot

of sweet potato it's a lot of veg but, it's a lot of veg. But guys, this is real delicious food. This is really nice, mom. I told you. It's delicious. This is working. Your Thai pie is a hit, brother.

You're going to make it again. Some taste. Uh-huh. Okay, so you're a sugar addict. So what would be, on your last meal, if you weren't doing AIP, what would be your last supper? Okay, my last ever meal? Yep. Starter, main, pud.

You know what a pud is because you're an Anglophile. Yes, and I don't have to worry about it because the gluten won't matter because I won't be in pain because it's my last meal. Knock yourself out. And a drink of choice. Oh, my God. Pud, I can tell you straight away. Okay. Birthday cake with buttercream frosting.

Would you get like sprinkles? 100% sprinkles, creamy vanilla buttercream, double layer with buttercream in the middle. Do you make a good birthday cake or do you have to go and get it from someone? I buy them. Costco makes the best birthday cake ever on the face. God, I love Costco. So, okay. So Costco does amazing birthday cake.

Great. Macaroni and cheese. Anything specific about your mac and cheese that is all somewhere that you've had it that you absolutely love? Is there a particular ingredient? You're going to read so disgusted, but I like it from the box. I'm no judgment here, Michelle. I don't like homemade. Do you want to know why? When people make homemade macaroni and cheese, they complicate it. They overcomplicate it. Bread crumbs do not belong on macaroni and cheese. I'm going to over complicate it breadcrumbs do not belong on macaroni and cheese i'm gonna say it here just like fruit does not belong in a birthday cake don't bring don't invite me to a wedding and put strawberries and bananas in my cake

i will spit it out in front of you bride you want the jelly i just no jelly no cream only keep all fruit away like i don't even like a victoria sponge wow jam and cake don't go for me okay fine okay so macaroni and cheese out of the box and you just use extra butter i'm gonna say butter because i'm not vegan here and then starter i do first of all i i'm a snacky girl so i love any kind of chips and dip crispsps and dip, crisps and French onion dip, tortilla chips and salsa. I love a chippy-dippy type of thing. How long have you been a vegan for? For about five years.

I went off for a bit because my doctor, I had blood work done, and he said, your body really needs some animal protein. So I said, okay, I'll have eggs. Was that a struggle for you? A bit major struggle. Oh, right. Actually, and you can ask my best friend, Andy's here with me. I don'll have eggs. Was that a struggle for you? A bit major struggle. Oh, right, okay. I actually, and you can ask my best friend, Annie's here with me. I don't like eggs.

Eggs for me have to be smothered in hollandaise sauce, and she'll tell you the only way I like to eat eggs. Ready? Two poached eggs with hollandaise sauce. Toast. Like an eggs Benedict. Correct, but not the meat. Okay.

Toast. Butter. Jam. Ooh. Toast. Butter. Jam. Ooh. Follow me here. I'm gonna. Salt the eggs. Dunk the sweet into the salty.

Yeah, I can understand that maybe. She made fun of me and then she tasted it. And it was very good. It's very good. It's very good. She's doing that for a show right now. She actually really liked it. She didn't expect to.

So, I mean, you're a vegan, but you talk about lots of lovely, creamy bits and bobs. Well, I haven't been vegan all my life. But, like, do you think you'd ever go back to vegetarianism? Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Until I figure out what's going on with my body. Right. Okay. I love cheese. Oh, I think

it would be on my desert island. 100%. Cheese and a glass of wine. I don't drink alcohol. Never. Never did. You're a real Jew. Can I tell you. I don't drink alcohol. Never? Never did. You're a real Jew.

Jews don't drink that. Can I tell you my favourite alcohol ever? What? Manischewitz. What? Manischewitz? We've got some. The Kerim wine.

Basically grape juice. Oh my God. It was very exciting when you get that at the Seder night. Yeah, loved it. Can we talk about the fact that you love the UK? Love it. But, like, you understand it so well. But when was the first time that you came here?

First time I came here. Now, my parents, Marty and Arlene, would take a holiday every year. The only holiday my brother and I got to go on. By the way, I'm sitting here saying we didn't have a lot of money growing up. We didn't. But my parents made sure they would go on holiday and not necessarily, thank you, every year, but like every other year they would do a big one. Hawaii, I remember them going there three times. Never taking us though, Lenny. Oh, what? Stop. Never. The only place we got to go is every Christmas we'd open our presents and we'd go in a car and we'd drive

from New Jersey to Florida. 24 hour drive. Did you appreciate that? Well, yeah, because we didn't cost any money, just petrol and petrol wasn't that expensive back then. And then we'd stay with my grandmother so we wouldn't have to pay for a hotel. So it was our Disney trip. Disney was a lot cheaper than it is now. I mean, I love disney and then when i was 13 my parents said we are taking you kids on a big trip they had saved four or five years to take us all to london for the first time i actually went to the uk that's big time if you all your holidays were driving to florida that's it was a big deal it was our only only one that i could really remember besides driving to cape codod or driving to Florida.

So I remember going and flying in the plane. It was a big deal. You're going overseas. I'm sure we did a stopover because it was cheaper. I don't even remember. I was 13. My brother was 10. And I was really, really into punk rock music.

The Sex Pistols were like my obsession. I loved real London punk bands. And so I had a blue mohawk. I wore all my crazy clothes over. The highlight of my trip, I remember, was shopping on Carnaby Street when it used to be stalls, when it was like a market. It was amazing. Best experience of my life. And there was something about it stuck with me forever. I fell in love with a boy in stratford-upon-avon his name was william shakespeare same with simon not shakespeare simon egan his name oh my god imagine if he's listening no this is the best story i posted a

picture of me and simon egan on twitter and somebody tweets me goes that's my dad, LOL. Stop! Swear to God. That's amazing. Yep. That's my dad, LOL. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Fell in love with him. Uh-huh. Ever since then, I always had an affinity.

And I don't know if it's because I'm a New Yorker and it feels like home. But I get off the plane at Heathrow and it's always like, I know I'm home. I don't feel like that in L.A. So why do you live in L.A.? It's the business. Well, showbiz, right, yeah. And I love the weather. The people are rotten.

But the weather, the business. Do you think you could ever imagine yourself getting a little country spot in, you know, the Cotswolds? Well, you know. Why would she want to live in the bloody Cotswolds? Because all the Americans love it want to live in the all the americans love it because of that film the holiday they love it which i love but i wouldn't live in the cotswolds where would you live if you were gonna live here i'm a new yorker so i have a place in northwest london right now i love it there i'd probably stay there i like the outskirts i don't, like, the Shenleys and places outside and Surrey. And, you know, I like them, but I don't feel at home there.

No. I want to be. City girl. Yeah. What about, okay, so food. Forgetting, after AIP, like, you live in LA. You're a New Jersey girl. You love London.

Where would you go for your food destination? Which one do you think is the greatest? Oh, my God. LA. Let me tell you why, though LA let me tell you why though right yeah because it suits me if I'm going for the best food New York where would you go really great vegan restaurants there but they're really there's a place called Blossom New York City which is amazing in Chelsea they have the most amazing like I can't even tell you, vegan food and plenty of gluten-free options. See, for me, being celiac, it's really important that you can go, you know, if I go to Italian, the only thing I can have is gluten-free pasta. It's never anything more than that. So there are amazing restaurants. In London, I loved Mildred's. I went there forever.

Great vegan restaurant. But there's so much more to choose from now. In LA, though, you must be fine. No, in London, even. In LA, it's everywhere. Everywhere, my favorite restaurant. But there's so much more to choose from now. In LA though, you must be fine. No, in London even. In LA it's everywhere. Everywhere, my favorite restaurant. Michelle, what do you feel about kale? Hate it. Me too.

You and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Me and Andrew Lloyd Webber and you. Hate it. Hate it. You like it? I mean, I will eat it. It's disgusting. I think if you massage it, it can kind of like.

It's very bitter. It's hard work. You can't eat it when you boil it. Even when you boil it bitter it's it's hard work you can't eat it when you boil it even when you boil it it's so stiff yeah i do like a kale chip like a kale crisp yeah how do you make them oh so easy you rip them up you put the oven very low yeah like it would be like 125 and yeah so low here um salt and pepper a little bit of um oil if you want even fry light and it crunches up do you sing karaoke? I love karaoke yeah

right Jessie take note would it be Madonna? would it be what? would it be Madonna? it could be Madonna I loved this is

I love to sing Pat Benatar in what's that one? well you know hit me with your best shot I don't know if I in... What's that one? Well, you know Hit Me With Your Best Shot. I don't know if I do. Yeah. How's it go?

Well, that's not her most famous song. Well, you're a real tough cookie at it's with the law. Hit me with your best shot. Why don't you hit me with your best shot? Maybe I do. No, what's... I like hearing you sing it. What's Pat Benatar's most famous song?

That one. No, there's another one. She also had We Belong. She also had We're Running With The Shadows All Night. Maybe I know that one. I know that one. So baby take your hand and it'll be alright. These sound like good karaoke songs.

They're all great. Are they usually? Love is a Battlefield? Yeah, Love is a Battlefield. That's the first video that somebody ever talked in. Oh, wow. Love is a Battlefield. I think it's from The Legend of Billie Jean, the movie.

So, honey, I love... Okay, you've got... Are these usually on the karaoke system? All Pat Benatar's always on karaoke. Okay, fine. Love is a battlefield. I would sing Heart. I would sing, you know, Heart.

No. Till then I always get by on my own. Oh, that's a trick. I never... No, that is Heart. Heart. Along with, ooh, Barracuda. Oh, that's a trick. I never. No, that is Heart. Heart. Along with, ooh, Barracuda. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Wow, you're going for like the biggies. Yeah. I love this. Yeah, what am I going to sing? Your voice is really great, Michelle. You need to do more. Oh, this is shit. No, it's great.

Like, I mean, we just touched it. You may be doing some music of your own. Maybe. Would you do Broadway again? Or would you do would you do west end oh of course absolutely would you just what would be your dream okay right because i went to theater school and that's what my degree is in musical theater my dream has always been to be on the cast recording of an original role i've not done that yet don't know if i'll ever get to do that. Dream role? Probably Mama Rose. Oh, sing out, Louise.

That's it. Hello, boys. That one. But there's a lot because I love musical theater. It's my heart and soul. I don't hate them, but I judge them. I don't trust them. Yeah. We love musical theater. Me too. It really upsets me. And I got started in it

because my mom, I didn't grow up in a musical house at all. Both my parents were tone deaf and they had a record collection, which was, they were Jewish, Barbra Streisand, Neil Diamond, Johnny Mathis and a rogue West Side Story. And I must have been eight,

nine years old. I remember playing it from the start, from overture to the finale, learning every note, every beat, every song, singing the whole thing every day by myself because I wasn't like a popular kid, so I'd always do this stuff at home. And that's how I became obsessed. And then Annie came out, and I begged my mother to audition. I begged my mother to audition.

You'd be amazing as Miss Hannigan. I'd be a great Miss Hannigan. Oh, my goodness, you'd be amazing. Darby Loudon's one of my heroes. What's your favorite musical? West Side Story. Yeah, because it holds a special place Oh my goodness, you'd be amazing. Darby Loudon's one of my heroes. What's your favorite musical? Well, West Side Story. Yeah,

because it holds a special place in my heart, but it's like the gay Sophie's Choice. You cannot pick a favorite musical. Annie is probably one of my, the best out there. Bye Bye Birdie is one of my favorites.

Anything Chita Rivera's probably my favorite. Andrew Lloyd Webber said South Pacific was the best musical ever written. Hate it. He said, because every single

song's a cracker. Horrendous. It's so about taste. Yeah. It's what you like. See, Jessie was Miss Adelaide in Guys and Dolls

at school. Another great one. That was a great role. I was Reno Sweeney in Anything Goes. That's quite a great one. Another great one. And you also

in Bugsy Malone. You were the jazz singer. No, mum, that was like when I was like in year five. I was ten and my little head kept from falling over. I always got a cold. I was Miss Adelaide. I always got a cold. A poison.

A poison. And so like my little kind of flapper girl headpiece was just falling down. I was like, he's a sinner. Anyway, you know what? That's so cute. It worked. The first song I ever sang in a talent competition, I was just falling down. I was like, he's a sinner. Anyway, you know what? That's so cute. It worked. The first song I ever sang in a talent competition, I was eight years old.

It was a talent show, not a competition. So second grade in America. Yeah. I played the organ and I sang, you're a, I'm a rhinestone cowboy.

Boom, boom. Yeah. Eight years old. Can you play it? Did you win? It wasn't competition. It was a talent show. Can you play it as well? I did. Jessica. No, I can't. I can't play. and it wasn't competition it was a can you play it as well um i did jessica

no i can't i can't not with those nails no i did it was the organ i was eight years old i learned it like this just fun aren't they fun michelle okay so drag race uk best series i think one of my favorite series of all the drag Race series. That's so good. Like, beautiful. Yeah. Did you, did you think that Lawrence Chaney was going to win? I had no idea. I never have any idea. So do you ever get a say? It's always like,

silence, and then, and then Rue makes their, I don't have a say. What's Lawrence Chaney's queen's name? Lawrence Chaney. Lawrence Chaney,

which is quite unusual. Oh. Well, we had Chad Michaels, we have, you know. Yeah, fine, yes. Yes. I think they only had, No, no.

Sometimes they use their names. What was that lovely, Shea Coulee. Yes, Shea. We have, you know. Yeah, fine. Yes. Yes. I thought they only had. No, sometimes they use their names. What was that lovely? Shea Coulee. Yes, Shea. We haven't had Shea on them. Shake a leg, Shea Coulee. I love Shea. They.

They. He. She. Usually, this is how it usually goes, just for the record. Out of drag, he. In drag, she. And what they, you know, you could ask them what pronouns they use. And some are non-binary, gender fluid, they don't care.

What is RuPaul? He said, you can call me he, you can call me she, just don't call me late to dinner. Michelle, I just want you to stay, but it's been such a pleasure. We have one last question for you. Do you have good table manners? I think I have marginal table do they matter to you no I grew up in a house that was pretty bawdy and loud and you know my mother and father

really you know my mother was like a Jew from Brooklyn like they didn't it wasn't proper it wasn't precious there was no etiquette you know there were things that we had to do as far as food goes and you know don't burp and but we always talked sometimes the telly was on we had one in the kitchen that would be like right there and it was very that but no they weren't precious you sound like you had a really happy child I did yeah I had a great childhood yeah I wouldn't change a thing thank you so much of course sweetheart thank you for having me. Oh, my goodness. Just so lovely to see you having such a lovely time in London, in Blighty, and just coming over.

We were all wanting to go away for the weather. I know. Well, you can come visit me in Los Angeles. We're desperate to get away. Thank you for having me. Thank you for welcoming me into your home. Well, I just love her. She's fabulous. Sunshine.

She's so energetic and enthusiastic and positive. Like, get up and go that's like the American way there's still no bullshit though, I like it that's the New Jersey way she's warm and positive I think love everything about her and it was just a pleasure to have her

for an incredibly healthy for my Thai pie I'm now having an elderflower are you? you're going for me yeah i'm going mad fucking somebody stop me but yeah michelle visage thank you so much for coming on table manners we wanted to do that one for a while um so it's really really lovely pretty fabulous really fabulous yep i'd love michelle to give you a makeup tutorial, Mum. Why? Oof, the contouring. But you know I go for drag race.

I wonder whether I won't get the call-up ever again, and you will. Don't we look? I hope everyone has enjoyed that. It's such a pleasure to do this podcast for you all. I hope you're all all right. I hope you're enjoying some of these sunnier moments. Who am I? Am I the weather girl? Jesus. No, no, darling. It's actually freezing.

It's not that freezing. It is cold. Anyway, take care, everybody, and we'll see you next week. The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.