Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S11 Ep 24: Zac Posen

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Zooming in from New York, this week we welcome American fashion designer Zac Posen to Table Manners. He’s dressed the likes of Naomi Campbell, Rihanna and Princess Eugenie to name but a few, and now he’s here chatting to us about his favourite type of lettuce and where to get the best oysters. We discuss his love of British culture, Notting Hill hedonism, baking birthday cakes with his mum, dressing Miss Piggy for the Oscars & being the emperor of ice cream. Zac wins the award for most decisive guest when it comes to choosing his last meal, even adding table accessories for each course! We loved chatting to him. Zac’s cook book ‘Cooking With Zac’ is out now. X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm actually not with my mum today. We're doing this from different houses tonight. I don't know how I feel about it mum, are we going to be okay? No, you've neglected me Jessie, I've barely seen you for two weeks. Listen, I also neglect my children so I couldn't leave them tonight because my husband's babysitting his nieces. So, sorry about that, children come first tonight. I just am slightly worried that your levels are going to be off because usually I'm your sound engineer so no actually I don't think you really adjust my levels properly because I was shouting on the on that last one anyway mum um yeah I haven't seen you for a while because I've been away I went to Cornwall and it rained

every day I went to some amazing restaurants I'm going to shout out a few of them just because I had a lovely time at them. Prawn on the Lawn in Padstow, but it's on a farm and it's wicked and they're so lovely and you would love it, mum. They've got one in London. And the Rocket Store in Boss Castle. Boss Castle is like the loveliest place ever. I'm very into Cornwall. I like it. And then shout out to Hidden Heart Simon Stallard who did a turbot on the beach and it was sensational

and I loved it but what have you been up to mum? I went out for dinner last night went out with the girls the girls on Tuesday talked about Jon Hamm a lot oh

what part of Jon Hamm? we're not going into that and I met your brother for lunch today. And how are you finding it? Because are you getting quite overwhelmed by the fact that you can go out now? It's kind of like you have to... No, I'm out all the time. Oh, right.

Never in. Mothers, lock up your bartenders. Lenny is back. Yep. It's a bit of a shame because this guest is a bit of a cook. I know, he's got a cookbook out. And we could have had a nice time having dinner together. Cooking with Zach.

Does he live in New York? Yeah, he lives in Soho where his... I've watched 15 Things You Should Know About Zach Posen. So he lives in New York in Soho, not very far from where he was brought up. Okay. I am really excited. Zach Posen is a fashion designer.

Everyone was wearing him. Rihanna, Gwyneth Paltrow, Claire Danes in that like magical Cinderella. Dress me, Jessie. Mum, when you're up for Global Icon of the Year at the Podcast Awards. Global Icon. They should bring that back

like they did for Taylor Swift at the Brits. Maybe they should incorporate that into the podcast awards and then you should just win it. There should be no contenders. You should just be there. So, yeah, he's dressed everybody and everyone loves him. And I think he was a bit of a wild child from what I gather. And he's a cook.

His dad was an artist. Yeah. Zap Posen coming up on Table Manners. Zach Posen, we've got you for an hour to chat about food. How are you? I'm excellent. I'm here in beautiful New York. How is New York?

You know, New York is like seriously coming back alive right now. You know, they did all this outdoor dining. And so it's like New York has become like a cafe society. It's kind of fascinating. I mean, every restaurant that has survived this horrible time has people sitting outside. And it's kind of cool because you can see the food on the streets. And so that's happening. And I think performing arts and kind of public events are starting to reopen. Oh, really? A little terrifying.

Yeah. I mean, they're announcing the stadium, you know, Madison Square Garden, which is indoors here, is opening. And the theaters are scheduled to open soon and uh we'll see fingers crossed and you know when your restaurants open if there are shops on either side do they spread their tables out like we've been doing in london absolutely they've built these like they've semi permanent ish structures everywhere. It's kind of quite nice for the restaurants, I think. But I wonder how they're going to, you know, if they're going to if some of them are just going to stay.

I mean, I don't know. You know, it's a little odd. I kind of think like everybody's under one roof. I don't know how this is helping airflow, but at least it's saving these businesses because man, is the food in New York such a part of the city? And I think everybody probably was really tired of ordering in or learning how to cook since so many people learned how to cook. So where was the first restaurant that you were like, I need to go to that restaurant. I'm getting a reservation for inside. Can't wait. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've done it even yet. I was so scared to go into a restaurant.

Wow. The first restaurant that I went inside, I went to my friend, this woman, Reika, who has a Japanese bistro called En Brasserie. called En Brasserie. And that was like one of the first places because I was like craving some really good Japanese food, which I cook Japanese at home, but I don't do like I just don't really take part in doing like sushi or sashimi that much at home. Like leave it to the pros. But yeah, because you have a cookbook, Cooking with Zach. I do. So how did the Cooking with Zach thing happen? Because I know that it started from kind of an Instagram hashtag, didn't it? It did, yeah.

I mean, I grew up cooking, right? My dad, who's an artist, felt a family that ate together, stayed together. That was like his philosophy. And, you know, they're from, my dad's from the middle of America, so not like a deep food culture. And my mom grew up in New York, but not during a food culture time. But they met in Italy in the like early 60s. And so that was like their introduction to like foreign ingredients, like what's an artichoke?

Or, you know, what's probably I don't even know, like what zucchini was like at that time. And then, you know, I was only like a glimmer in their eyes, I guess, at the time. And, you know, fast forward 30 years, or 40 years, you know, and then I came along. And I grew up in lower Manhattan, really close to Little Italy and Chinatown. And food was just a really big centerpiece of our lives and our house. And, you know, I first started baking and I was very dyslexic and had ADD. So cookbooks were visual and I could like get into them. And it was time with my family and my parents. And, you know, anyhow, fast forward to being an adult and, you know, having a lot of different influences and friends that entertained and cooked. Instagram came along and, you know, everybody was kind of using it in the very early stages. And I thought, like, you know, I cook at home, like, I'm going to post this beautiful bowl of

pasta I made. And all my friends in fashion were said, you know, do not post the photo of your food. It will scare people. Fashion people don't eat. It's not your brand. It's not a selfie. I don't even know if people were doing selfies at that point. It was so like rudimentary. And I said, I think, I said, I think food is like a cross-cultural connector. Like humans have to eat. Like not everybody has to dress up in fashion but everybody for the most part has an opinion about flavor like what tastes good what doesn't to them and it started this whole and i put a hashtag cooking with zach and it was just early into that i mean maybe because i'd spent time in like asia and japan and in China, where I saw like food culture and social media

really big, I was just like, this is going to be really big. And I knew it. And I kind of went into it and started posting and people were really into it and then started getting offered in like cooking shows and then got offered a book deal and said, OK, I'm going to do this. and then got offered a book deal and said, okay, I'm going to do this. And I love cookbooks so much and I love cooking that I gave myself, once I signed the deal, like two years of development for the book. Oh, wow. Which is a healthy amount of time because I really wanted every recipe to test out.

I remember in an early meeting they said, oh, most cookbooks, like 50% of the recipes don't test out. And I said, well, that's like bogus. That's, that's not for me. Like I believe in integrity and things working and my cooking is quite eclectic in terms of my recipes. And I've, you know, it goes from very decadent things to very simple, healthy things. And I wanted it to be a real reflection of me and my family background and some family recipes in there. And then things that I would invent in the process. I hired a collaborator who now is like, you know, one of the head editors at Clarkson Potter.

And she'd worked on many cookbooks. And I didn't know at the time until after my book came out that she's like, was considered like one of the world class bakers in the country. my book came out that she's like, was considered like one of the world class bakers in the country. And I was like, wow, she was just, wow, she was discreet in the process, and understated and pretty darn cool. And we just had a blast putting it together and then photographing it. And I put it in the fashion seasons. I thought that was a nice fashion tie in. And I wrote a lot of essays in putting it together, but just the process because I cook instinctually. Like that's how I cook. Like, I'll, I'll scroll the internet just for like a quick reference of like a temp and time if I need to. But I really have now, you know,

taught myself at least within my repertoire that I do you know my basics and from there I just elaborate fashion and food like you cut you kind of you you skimmed on that just there like you kind of said well some people were kind of jokingly maybe being like oh don't post the pasta or maybe they've been quite serious did you ever feel like those two worlds had a conflict did you ever feel like there was a point where you were doing the cooking with Zach and people were like, Zach, we care about pre-fall. Like, chill out with the fucking spag bol. On the social media, for sure.

With my company, absolutely. You know, it'd be like, are you a chef? Are you a fashion designer? Are you a host on TV? I mean, there was a moment when my book came out where I was, the cookbook was there. I was promoting the cookbook, right? And posting my recipes. I had a feature documentary film that had been made on me about my career on Netflix. And I was on a TV show. I was designing the uniforms for Delta. I was the creative director of Brooks Brothers.

And then I had like multiple lines within my own line. It was just a lot. And it was a lot of different content to have to like juggle and kind of made an easy roadmap for posting because I just had to post a lot. Yeah. You said like the documentary, the Netflix documentary, which I can't find anywhere, by the way. Why can't I find it anywhere? It's off right now. It will be back. Okay. So this is happening. You've said, yes, a house of Z and it's a real tell all about a mad time. Yeah. I didn't produce it. I'm subject. Oh, was that hard? I didn't have final cut. I was involved. I, I, I let film for three years, but I didn't have final cut and I didn't produce it. Were you happy with it? I am happy with it. I was terrified in the process.

Why did you do it and expose yourself in that way to scrutiny? Because I thought there was nothing to lose at the time. I thought, you know, I didn't know what story they would tell, but I knew that I was working at that point in a very rare and special moment in my career that was at a very make or break time, I felt at the time. And I knew that I had built and created such an amazing family within my studio of incredible artisans. And, you know, it started as like a small thing for like a charity I was working with. And then I looked at this woman in my office.

I said, I think you have a feature film in you. And then she went to get whatever, you know, with me. And then she went to go like interview my sister. And I think my sister said one thing. And it kind of a light bulb went off in this woman, Sandy's head, the director. And it became like a three and a half year journey in making this film. And I also, why did I do it? I wanted to learn the process of how a feature film gets put together.

And I would use myself, I guess, as the subject, but also understand that whole experience and take that risk. And I think creativity is about taking risks. I totally agree. So your sister, you mentioned your sister. So I'm thinking, yeah, you're a New Yorker family living in lower Manhattan. Yeah. And you seem like the only family I've heard of that cook in New York. So your family were cooking. And like, I want to know what they were cooking, what was on the dinner table and who was around that dinner table? Okay, so cooking, you know, was that my dad really, you know, he was a painter and his artist. So half of our loft we grew up in was a studio. And then, you know, at a certain time, six o'clock,

he'd start cooking. And, you know, it was everything from, you know, the family dishes, he would do like a pasta puttanesca, right? And, you know, that was really good and understanding like the flavor of what an olive could do to tomato sauce, if kept really right. And what else? Like he would definitely serve like a lot of bulgur wheat and this like chicken, tomato and spinach and garlic dish with bulgur wheat was one of my favorites. A real mix is what I would say. You know, then we had a local Italian place that still exists in lower Manhattan on Houston Street called Raffetto's. So that was like the ravioli night. So that was like the ravioli night. And then my mom would cook a Chinese meal, even though like we were right near Chinatown of like that's in my cookbook.

And it's kind of definitely a Americanized Chinese dish called Kung Pao shrimp. But with gingers and garlics and scallion and soy and probably a little brown sugar in it and shrimp coated, you know, in either a potato starch or a corn starch that they would, you know, have a little crisp to them. Yeah. Pretty eclectic is what I would say. And, and worldly, I mean, I think it's centered around probably a lot of Italian food and then holidays, some traditional Jewish food would come into play and you know taking my grandmother's matzo ball you know my mom would make the matzo balls and my dad would make the soup and the stock and he'd like quite a hearty stock like it was always like to strain it

or not to strain he likes all the bones do you like it strained or not me I like it strained personally me too I like it really clear me too clear. And then I can add my vegetables or if I want to add anything to it. My dad likes, you know, the whole pot in there and all that stuff. So that's the carcass. The carcass, exactly. Everything floating around in there. And then on weekends, because my mom was a professional woman, she would bake with me. And I don't, you know, that was just more fun and methodical. And I mean, birthday cakes were baked at home. And, you know, New York, growing up downtown, there were amazing places to shop, great cheese shops in Little Italy. You know, but it was world cuisine. And I was exposed to a lot of different Asian

cuisine, Japanese, Chinese, Korean food, really young and Indian food in New York. And but I want to know, so when you were baking with your mom, and you had a you had ADHD, I mean, were you diagnosed at that point? It was ADD and ADD, you know, and I was dyslexic. You know, I definitely had trouble concentrating, but it was tactile, right? And I think something that combines hand and eye coordination and like a delicious, yummy result created patience. And it was fun.

And it was something where I think together I could learn to follow a recipe. And, you know, later in my life, cookbooks really were some of the first books I read because there was visuals to go along with it. And I loved the process. And I remember very early on, my aunt gave my mom for her birthday, the first Martha Stewart living cookbook. mom for her birthday, the first Martha Stewart living cookbook. And it blew my mind. Like I thought this life, this lifestyle here I am in like a loft in Soho, but this like country grandeur lifestyle, you know, just felt so intriguing to me and been beautiful. I loved, I wanted to entertain like her. Around the table, I mean, friends would come, but it was mostly our family. And we had friends who would come. I would think of other like influences. I had a Norwegian babysitter growing up and she brought me into like Norwegian food

growing up. And what was that like? Well, salty licorice. I like black salty licorice that people like are horrified by. I love all that. Did you ever try their funny cheese that tastes like fudge? Yeah, I love it. That brown cheese. I love it. Yes. It's weird taste. Yeah, it's very strange. I love it. Yeah. And all kinds of, you know, different. I feel very lucky growing up in New York. I really got that cultural mix of all different kinds of foods at all times and so what did you

when you came to St. Martin's that would have been a bit of a shock well it was because like the food I mean I think like Jamie Oliver just hit the telly so like food culture the naked chef the food culture had really just started um but I would buy my veggies in Soho on the Market Street there, where I'd also buy my fabric. There were like... Barrick Street. Yeah, Barrick Street. Exactly. There were Barrick Street, there was like a guy that would sell cuttings of fabric, right? Because that's what I could afford. I couldn't afford the fancy shops in Soho. But the cutting of fabrics I could play and I'd buy my veggies there but it was really shocking I remember a I found a local Italian restaurant

near where I was living where were you living I was living in this basement apartment in a place called Lamb's Conduit Street oh wow amazing are you gonna say ciao bella to me ciao bella yeah of course they took care of me still great they're so great i lived in this basement apartment on mecklenburg square like this one little building it was kind of cool um i could walk to school and you know it was it was it was it was weird it was dark it was little wet, but it was kind of great. And Ciao Bella was there and had really good pizza. And those guys took care of me and fed me when I would run out of my spendings. And they fed me and fed my friends.

And I'd have my espresso on my way to school. And they really believed in me. And that was like my spot that's so lovely and they they do the most generous hefty portions of chunks of parmesan and at the beginning and I I always respect that they're still doing the breadsticks and still doing the chunky parmesan and that is nice you don't get that that much anymore and that and lamb's conduit street hadn't changed yet like it was still oh it's gorgeous now i know that i went back and this whole area is like transformed but it was really sleepy and there was like while i was there like i think like one florist shop open there and like one other restaurant but there were no restaurants in that area i mean around the corner as i, as I would go, I guess, you know, closer to King's Cross, there was definitely more ethnic,

delicious food there. But London was shocking. The food thing was like shocking. And I don't even know like what I ate when I was there. But I do remember coming back to home for my first like summer break and my friend's mother said like freaked out and said, my God, you're skinny. I turned into like, you know, a mod waif with curly hair and was the color green. You know, I said, what are they? They don't have like they don't have, you know, are you not eating or there's no greens in in in london um i also i will say early early on while out at a nightclub which nightclub it was called the san maritz club oh my god it was so fun did you go to gaz's rock and blues i went i'd go to gaz and rock and blues you know every week and i met two of who became like my british family there are these two sisters

named poppy and daisy devilnov and their mother's half american and she was a model and she's american so i was able it was really like i was so alone on my own in London, right, with just a lot of chutzpah and panache and, you know, kind of this whole new romantic look going on. But like 20 years later and, you know, they kind of let me into their home. out to their house where they grew up in the countryside and, you know, have Thanksgiving and, you know, got to, brought into this whole other world that, you know, was so like I never expected. And that kind of brought me into the second place I lived, which was on Upper Portobello Road. And, you know.

Oh, nice. Fancy. It wasn't fancy though then at all. Like it was, maybe it was posh, but it really didn't feel like the house was like falling apart. And a real scene. It was a real scene. And I was really integrated into this, you know, whole moment and scene that was happening of all, you know, kind of the British, you know, models mixing with kind of, you know, the old families of Britain. And I really, and the rock and roll, the kids are the rock and rollers. And it was, you know, Lily Allen would be sitting on our like stoop. It was there. I just didn't know it was,

it was that cultural moment. I really felt like I was in London at a really cool time. And I got also, during my time there, I met this amazing woman on the street who's like come to a party with me. And it was a woman named Anita Pallenberg. Oh, wow. And she swooped me up. Yeah. And she would take me to parties and events. And, you know, this is all by chance and kind of serendipitous, but I was living, getting kind of this full East, West, Central. She's rock royalty. Yeah, I was her date to everything in London. And I was like a kid. And, you know, I just took it all in. I was just having a blast and fully threw myself into British culture and I loved it. I mean, I love how cozy it is, how eccentric it is, and deep, rich in history and culture

and probably some of the best collections and museums in the world. And quite frankly, how well-read young British kids are. I mean, there is nothing, I'm going to tell you something, there is nothing like going to the theater in London or to museums and hearing British children speak about what they're seeing, especially when they're nerdy. It's just, it's quite fabulous. I mean, and I don't, you know, I think it's deepened in the educational culture there. And it's fun to witness and see. I really never thought I would leave.

And, you know, while I was there at St. Martin's, which was highly competitive. And the other thing to understand is St. Martin's was at that time on Charing Cross Road in the original campus. And I had incredible professors. But there was one class a week. The rest was assignments and presentations where you'd be, you know, ripped to shreds in front of your class because it's such a competitive school and high standards. And I was much younger than everybody I was in class with, but it gave a lot of free time to explore. My academic classes of my one weekly requirement at St. Martin's was I took the history of Victoriana, England, which was fascinating, fascinating. And then the history of London graveyards

was my second year. Wow. Did that ever be incorporated into any of your dresses or your shows? A hundred percent, fully. Definitely. I mean, understanding, yes the the whole long mourning period of queen victoria and the different breakdowns of colors that were added into it

the changing of the fashion plate because she had people got tired of wearing black basically they're like let's go look at france and you you know, and all this kind of change of the fashion plate for sure. And then the intricacies. And at the time also I was living on Portobello, there were still reasonably accessible, real antique fashion clothing stores there. You know, people didn't, there was no eBay really. And yet full force and definitely, you know, Etsy's and whatever. The whole resale market of like old Victorian clothing was still there to some degree. And I just had a blast.

I mean, I was dressing, I would wear, I wore this like 1920s nurse, British nurse cape, floor length nurse cape in blue like everywhere like I wore this like cloak everywhere in London with this like weird red orange interior no wonder you were invited out on dates you look fabulous and yeah I was like my own self-creation and it created buzz while I was there and you know I'm just trying to think of like fancier fare that I ate when I was in London did you eat fancy there or was it more about that no there wasn't fancy I mean I think like once or twice like once you know I was kind of with fancier people I remember going to Babendum right to have oysters and that was pretty posh. Yeah, right. That was like, that was posh eating and just an experience because like, that was a whole other world of

London that that I knew. But no, I don't even really remember eating there. I was boozing and going out and doing my work all day and all night. I mean, I remember eating with like my friends and I remember making a lot of tea and I remember like, you know, English breakfasts out. And I remember like my souvlaki out late at night. Yeah. Not a doner then, Zach? Yeah, doner kebab too.

Would you do that too? Is that? Yeah, of course. Do you get doner kebabs in? Don't think they do. They get shawarma in new york shawarma there was yeah you do you get shawarma more in new york and and and i mean it's all here i mean that that's here but it's not as good did you start dressing british models when you were

yes i mean i i got to britain because when i started there was this influx in fashion of um what they called the aristo models right and they were in new york and i had a girlfriend that was dating like the male aristo model at the time and it just kind of i was like 15 at the time 16 16. And they just seemed so darn cool. And it was a whole crew of them, right? So it was like this girl, a woman, she was a girl, but she felt like a woman. She's only a few years older than I am, but she felt so adult. This young woman, Erin O'Connor and Karen Elson and Jade Parfitt and Sophie Dahl. And I'm trying to who else? Liberty Ross. And it was like a whole crew. And that was my crew, my teenage crew in New York.

They were all living in New York. And it just and this guy, Dan McMillan. And they just seemed so out there and fabulous and cool. And this other young lady named Iris Palmer that I fell in love with. And that's really why I came to London. I was like, I thought these people are, this is like, this is it. And it was also the time of John Galliano and Alexandra McQueen. And I was really into that look and Vivian Westwood, that that's where I was going. Like, there was no question that that's where I was going. And they went on this journey with me. I met them in New York, moved to London, some of them moved

back to London. And they're really how my career started. I mean, Karen ordered her first dress from me when I was working for a designer when I was like 16 years old. She was like, make me a frock. That's amazing. Wow wow but when did you meet Naomi and you made that fantastic red dress yes so Naomi well the red dress is later but Naomi um saw a girlfriend of mine who she knew wearing a dress of mine on the Eurostar and she said I gotta I gotta get one of those dresses and I got to meet the person. I'd like to meet the person who made it. And so one day in my basement on Mecklenburg Square, the legs walked down those basement entrances. I'll never forget it with a bag that said NC.

And I did my first fitting on Naomi and she gave me some cash to make my first frocks, and I started fitting and making them on her. And she just knew. I mean, she really understood, and she really believed in me, and, you know, was my greatest champion. And I made her dresses, and, you know, I think that I just, you know, it was my greatest champion and I made her dresses. And, you know, I think that I just, you know, she could not have been more generous and nurturing and wonderful. Who was your favorite person to dress? I never say my favorite person to dress.

Okay. Who's your worst then? No, I can't do it. Oh, Zach. I cannot. You're no fun. I can't do it. Who's the biggest diva. You're no fun. I can't do it. Who's the biggest diva, Zach?

He's not going to say because he's a professional. We won't tell anyone. The biggest diva. I mean, I've dressed all the divas. That's the answer to that. All of them. So many divas. Miss Piggy.

Miss Piggy. You didn't. Did you design a dress for the Muppets? I dressed Piggy many times. Oh, my gosh. I dressed Piggy for the Oscuppets. I dressed Piggy many times. Oh my gosh. I dressed Piggy for the Oscars. Oh my gosh. I dressed Piggy for the Oscars and for a movie.

So Piggy is my Piggy. And I'm trying to think Barbie. She was, Barbie was high maintenance. Kitty, Kitty had some attitude. This is hysterical. And Betty, Bettyty as in betty boo you've done them all i've done all the icons that's amazing so what's happening like what's happening now because obviously the clothes um zap potion is no more at the moment the line but

you know we're i'm kind of had this opportunity to step back and kind of say, what do I want to do? And it's an exciting moment in that sense where I can really have some perspective and look at fashion in a different way and see how I want to play in it and also be able to work on other projects that I've been wanting to do for a long time, maybe work on another cookbook, potentially working on a cooking and gardening show for the telly or for the, you know, or for the computer. When did gardening start becoming a love affair? Have you always been mad about it or was it a lockdown situation? No, I've been mad about it for a long time. My mom, situation? No, I've been mad about it for a long time. My mom, for some crazy reason, for a good reason, thought that we should try gardening on our roof in Soho in little boxes. And we planted everything and kind of trial by error, saw what worked and what didn't work. And I'll tell you, tomatoes on a roof have very thick, tough skin because of the heat and the wind. Um, it's

not, it's not the Italian coastline in Sierra, but it started there. And then, um, you know, I'd say, you know, quite a few years later, my family moved or got a small, uh, second home in the country, in the rural country, uh, of Bucks County, Pennsylvania. And there I really took on gardening for a long time. And then during this COVID time, I was at friend's house and it was my dream was to see from seed to harvest and stay in one place. Because during my career, I was on a plane at least every other week, and was like show on the road. I was like in my own circus creation for 20 years. And I was putting in trees and lilacs and kind of bringing this property back to this kind of very bohemian English country garden that was really fun and that was in the hamptons where obviously

like the farm centers you know are beyond above and beyond fabulous and you can get anything and everything that you've never even heard of and so i was just having a you know i was like in a you know gourmet food store with you know nothing else to do but to play with the ingredients i don't know about you but do you feel like you need to spend a bit more time waiting to do that cookbook because you probably put your heart and soul into it and so now you need to discover more recipes right totally yeah and what and what the hook is like i'm in a very healthy mode with my food which has been really fun, like really healthy. Like how healthy are we talking?

Like what's going on with the... Like a lot of vegetables, a lot of greens and some fish for protein and like smoothies. Like I'm drinking smoothies in the morning for the first time in my life with like a keto powder protein. I mean... Oh, so you've gone keto? Why'd you do that? Just because I'm like on a health kick have you seen the results oh yeah for sure and is it what are you doing keto then no I'm not I'm just

eating healthy is what I would say because I am eating a lot of fish and and I also like if I'm in the right place and like I just did a trip across the country. Right. And like we were in Arizona and like the steak just looked so darn good and it was delicious. So I'm not, I don't, I always believe like in moderation, right. And in food, I just, I've been exercising a lot. I guess I was in Malibu. So that like Malibu lifestyle came into it. So now I'm playing around with the idea of like a very kind of farm to table, healthy living book, which obviously is like very trendy right now. Or if I do like flowers and dessert.

Do the flowers and dessert. I love that. That's such a good title. Zach, we ask everybody, and I hope you're not going to be too healthy on this last supper. You've got a starter, a main, a pud or a dessert, but you know what a pud means. And a drink of choice. I know you're in a zone at the moment.

No, no, no. I can get out of that zone. Let's just go dream. Let's just like dirty it up a bit. Oh, no, I could go there. I mean, I definitely would start with oysters. Like delicious Kumamoto oysters. Bring them on any day.

Where do you have them from? Do you go to a certain place to have them is there like a particular setting because i mean my sister took me to the sunset tower and i very much enjoyed my oyster at that sunset tower hotel oh that's so i can like go like situational in my own garden i would go there oh okay nice lilacs and bloom oh lovely and maybe like some soft some fried like soft shell crabs on the side because like crunch. Those are my favorite. And some good tartar sauce, you know, like.

Oh, delicious. I mean, maybe some pickled herring. I don't know. I'm all, I'm, I'm, I'm totally fish zone here. It's a fish platter. I, a fish plate, a fish platter. But I also could like, what would I do if I didn't have salami to start with too?

Shove it on there, Zach. Shove it on. Yeah, cheese, cheese. Okay, so that's... Excuse me, are lilacs on the table? Are we going to have different flowers with different courses? Okay, yes, we can have lilacs on the table. Maybe some sprigs of lily of the valley there.

Oh, gorgeous. Maybe some spring violets. You are the first, you are the first person, no doubt, it's because you are an artist. Accessorize the table. You've accessorized, you've complicated, you've accentuated, you've given the table a moment. I want really good briny seaweed wrapped around that ice, around those oysters that I can smell. And I like to feel that cool from the algae. Okay, fine.

Are you drinking with the oysters? To start, I'll start with a really good Sancerre. Okay. A really good white, like just to give some sweetness. The man that knows what he wants. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so that's like the big starter. Then for like my main course, wow, that's really hard call.

You can make it small plates, Zach, if you need to. Okay, small plates. I love a really good crown roasted rack of lamb. There's yum. I love that. And I love it with like mint jelly. I love it with my mustard. That's like delicious with some really great fried in duck fat potatoes.

Fried potatoes, not roasted in duck fat. I think fried and low fried. Yeah, like put it on a sous vide and fry it low till they're real crispy. And then I want some fresh herbs, very finely chopped, sprinkled over that. And then I think a homemade mayonnaise or hollandaise on the side for dipping. With the lamb. Oh, that's to go with the potatoes. Okay.

Any vegetables? Yeah, I would love artichoke. I love a really good artichoke. Yum. What, the hearts or the whole? I like the whole process of eating it and getting messy with the hands and pulling it with the teeth. But it is also very beautiful to look at. It is. Well, they're a flower. They are a flower.

And it is, you know, it is a theorem in a sense. It is it is mathematical and it is sacred geometry, which is always something I'm drawn to in design. What else would I have with that as a side main course? I mean, I love a really simple bib lettuce with a really good apple cider. What's a bib lettuce? Bib, I don't know what bib lettuce is in the UK. I don't know what you'd call a bib.

Are they little or big? They're medium size. It's like a lettuce. I don't. Is it like a butter lettuce? Like a butter. It is a butter lettuce. Thank you. I love a butter lettuce.

They're kind of softer. They're a bit more velvety. Yeah. Yeah, it is velvety. Exactly. What's your go-to dressing, by the way? Is there one that we should know about? A Zac Posen dressing?

Yeah, there is. I do a teeny bit of mustard. I slowly emulsify my olive oil into that. And I would add about a half a cup of olive oil into like a teaspoon of mustard, salt, pepper, two thimbles of apple cider vinegar, and a little fresh lemon juice. That's it. Why apple cider vinegar? I like the the flavor and i think it's good

i mean listen you could do it with a with a red wine vinegar you could do it with any of them yeah or sherry vinegar is good too you can add a little shallot into there i also will say that i love leeks and i and i i think in that main course i probably would have like a leeks of vinaigrette on the side of course because you're having the lamb so it only makes sense it works right absolutely okay so we've got your main course going do you eat dessert you bet I eat dessert and I don't know I'm trying to think like what the dream dream dessert is besides ice cream because I love I mean emperor of ice cream I can just do which is your flavor I'm a real I love coffee ice cream I love pist emperor of ice cream. I can just do. Which is your flavor? I love coffee ice cream.

I love pistachio ice cream. I knew you were going to say that. I love pistachio. I love hazelnut. And I love chocolate. I mean, I'm crazy about that. And then recently I just ordered and had delivered the most delicious licorice ice cream. And it wasn't too licorice-y.

Yeah, no, i've seen that they had that on a master chef it was really good and then i would have to say i love a chocolate mousse i feel like you would a french one that's run i feel like zach is totally zach needs to come around for dinner because this is very much mom's forte this meal yeah but not the oyster i know you made such a face with the oysters what would you start with well we've talked about this a lot i like english roast dinners yeah your your lamb isn't very far away from that i love a good rack but what do you start with in an english roast dinner a soup well i would always choose my mum's chicken soup but um

but i feel like lots of people would start with like a chicken liver pate maybe, a parfait. Yeah. I like smoked salmon. I do too. I like mussels. I had them last night. Smoked mussels? Or just mussels?

No, just ordinary mussels. Yeah, I love mussels too. In a nice beurre blanc sauce. You know, just kind of wine and shallots. Will you drink red wine with your main course? Absolutely. Which one? A Bordeaux.

No question. A good Bordeaux. I just, you know. You're so decisive about your meal. I'm so. Jesse, he knows what he likes. I know, and I like that. There's no umming and ahhing with this.

It was like bang, bang, bang. I mean, listen, I could have also done like a hamachi, you know, a simple ceviche hamachi would make me really happy. I don't even know what a hamachi is. Like a yellowtail tuna. Can we get that, Jess? Yes, you have that.

I mean, it's less common here. You could get it at like a good sushi spot, but it's not like it's everywhere, mum. No, it's not common there. And I mean, I like a good sushi spot but it's not like it's everywhere mum no it's not common fair and i mean i like a good fish and chips i'm really like as i said like i can go really you know i don't know i said i can go from like m&ms to godiva do you like karaoke i'm terrified of karaoke but i certainly do karaoke in the car what are you singing along to at the moment windows down couldn't care less if anyone heard you i'll be

like wailing to like i mean gosh what have i been listening to in the car i was like singing along on the road uh to kate bush oh lovely Trying to make these crazy high noises. Like sounding like a banshee. Or Paul Simon. Like I love Paul Simon. And then I can go like American musical song book. Like, you know, I'll listen

to like Oklahoma. Oh yeah, we like the musicals. I mean, that's like what I grew up listening to Judy Garland and the musicals i mean that's like what i grew up you know listening to judy garland and the musicals with my parents zach posen thank you very much for talking so decisively about food and um it's been a pleasure wish we could chat for longer we'll have to meet in the flesh and go out for dinner at some point and thank you and good luck with like everything that's going on and i can't wait to see what you do And thank you. And good luck with everything that's going on. And I can't wait to see what you do next.

Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Lovely to meet you. Thank you. Mother and daughter duo. Nothing better. Wow, is that Posen there chatting? Well, he's dressed everyone, Jessie.

And dressed every lettuce leaf. Thank you, Zach Posen. I thought he was really charming and lovely. And I wanted to ask him if he'd dress me for when I have a red carpet event. Yeah, we'll get one of Miss Piggy's out. But I didn't feel I could. Shut up! Would you like Betty? That's so mean!

Well, the biggest diva only suits the biggest diva, doesn't it? Yep. Or you could take Betty Boop. Anyway, we hope you're all okay. We hope you're staying safe. Hope your arm isn't hurting as much as mine, but I don't care how much it's hurting because i know is it still hurting all right it's fine i'm kind of happy more price to pay my darling exactly and just sending love to everybody

who is back at work especially the hospitality sector and lots of love to the wonderful volunteers and nurses um who are working at the vaccination centers you you know, they were all so, I mean, I feel like everyone was being respectful to each other, but so wonderfully kind of polite and enthusiastic and upbeat. And it felt really special to witness that and be able to be privileged enough to be able to get vaccinated, you know, Got it done in New Cross and it was just so wonderful. And let's pray. Actually, I did notice Bella Mackey donated her money to UNICEF today. And she said, I'm donating the cost of my vaccine,

because it's around £45, in the hope that we can vaccinate the rest of the world, the poorer countries. Yeah, UNICEF are doing a programme called Vaccinate. And you can go to vaccinate the rest of the world, the poor countries. Yeah, UNICEF are doing a programme called Vaccinate and you can go to vaccinate.org. You can go and donate and help somebody somewhere else in the world who needs a vaccination that isn't as lucky as us that we get it for free.

God bless the NHS and goodbye. The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.