Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S12 Ep 1: Stanley Tucci

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

And just like that, we are BACK and ready to take over your Wednesdays! We hope you all had a lovely summer; Mum has enjoyed plenty of holidays and I had a baby. We’ve got some AMAZING guests lined up for you for this series and what better way to start that with fellow foodie, Hollywood star and absolute gent, Stanley Tucci.Stanley talks to us about growing up in New York, filming his latest TV show ‘Searching For Italy’ & his fight against cancer. He celebrates his mother’s cooking (& her famous lunchbox lunches!) & reveals his less than fine dining experience with Meryl Streep. Stanley’s food memoir ‘Taste’ is fantastic and is out now. Here’s to a fabulous start to another series xx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. We've missed you. We're back. Mum has had a few holidays. I have had none. You did get a baby though. I did get a baby. A very cute baby. A very cute baby and we are thrilled to be back for season 12. It's autumn, it's feeling lovely. I feel like new school year. It feels like the beginning of something special. Best time of the year.

It really is. Well, I think that's because you and I have birthdays in October. Well, let's speak about your birthday. It was a big one this week. Do you want to tell your listeners what a great daughter I am? No. Oh, first I'd like to talk about how I've entered, sadly, my eighth decade. That is depressing.

I like how you said decade. Someone sent me a birthday card saying, 21 plus 49 years experience. You're 70. I'm 70. You look great. Thank you, darling. Shout out to Lily Vanilli for the cake.

Oh, wow, that was a cake. I basically, mum was like, you know, I can't really organise my own cake. I was like, don't worry, we'll sort it. So I went to the best of the best, Lily Vanilli, who actually, mum, is opening a tea room in Drury Lane Theatre, I think. Oh, I think we'll go.

And anyway, so I said to Lily, I was like, I need to make it like a wedding cake for a 70th. And she was like, okay okay tell me what she likes what colors and I was like listen all I know about my mum is she wears a red lip she likes cosmopolitans she loves leopard print and she likes gold go for it when Isabella my cousin saw it she said that's a hun cake a what a hun cake what's that mean we'll put it on the Instagram and let people decide whether they think it's a hun cake or not I mean it's a huge

it's a huge accolade it was a fabulous fabulous cake you looked fabulous at the weekend where was that jumpsuit from Wallace

oh my god mum maybe you should be the face of Wallace this is Wallace too you literally keep them in business I don't know anybody else who wears Wallace stuff

but I'd be suit me it was a wow factor did it look alright yeah you look fab. All I can tell you is that I wore undergarments that are akin to scaffolding. Actually, I could barely move my body because it was so tight and every part of me was held in. Welcome to showbiz, mum. How we suffer.

I thought I'd had a deep vein thrombosis in one leg at one stage because my leg was throbbing and I did have to ask a friend's boyfriend to unzip me in the downstairs loo and I think he did not know what was coming next you don't know him very well no not at all I've met him twice and I said could you unzip me please and then I said you'll have to stay there because you need to zip me back up and I said to him it could take some time because of what I'm wearing underneath will take a long time to get up and back down and up he didn't know what to say I like the uh blush that you've done oh you've done a little highlighter today mother I always use this and this is a little I look well I think

we need to blend a bit more but it's fabulous I don't you look like you're going to studio 54 mum because the bits go down on my jumper we'll blend a bit but you do look fab anyway we are starting off our series with a bit of a star Hollywood royalty I would say he's incredibly loved very loved respected respected you'll know his face absolutely he's been in the hunger games julie and julia devil wears prada he's a massive foodie he's got a now i think emmy he just won an emmy for searching for italy his cookery program that goes through italy learning about the origins of dishes and he's got a memoir out called Taste, which is all about his, you know, it's a food memoir.

Can't wait to meet him. I'm very excited, but he's very much a foodie. Well, I hope it's going to come up to snuff, darling. What have you made for him, Mum? So I've done your favourite today. I love this. I've done tagliatelle. Yeah.

I don't think I've made my salsa verde like you do it looks a bit more like tartar sauce it's not as green I think salsa verde sometimes looks like a bit like mint sauce but if you put in Dijon mustard which I've put in and you put in lemon juice and olive oil it's got to emulsify a bit so anyway I think it will taste nice and i so i've done that with rocket and parmesan and some roasted asparagus with tomatoes garlic and pine nuts lovely yep and then shit i was supposed to bring an orange wasn't i yeah fuck i forgot that was going to be in the mascarpone and it has to be an orange oh I have... Can we ask next door? Yeah, you can. You can go.

Sugar. Sorry. Because I've had orange and mascarpone ice cream at Blue Maid in St Ives. Yeah, it just lifts the mascarpone a bit. Will you just go next door? Yes, I will go next door. And ask Damien. And hope they've got an orange. So the pudding, I've made polenta and lemon cake.

Where's Damien going out? Should we just pop and get him out? Go quick now. Cheers. What a pleasure. My God, thank you. Well, I hope the food's up to snuff. Come on, you guys have cooked for... Come on, are you kidding?

You're like... The Queen is a food. Is it bad? to snuff. Come on, you guys have cooked for... Come on, are you kidding? You're like the queens of food. Is it bad? Is it bad? Did Stanley bring this? No, I didn't. Good, because I was about to be like, that's fucking rude. I'm not going to say that. It's just interesting. It's not like... It's very dry. What do you think? Oh no, you're both making... What's 12 quid a bottle?

She really put... Pushed the boat out for you, Stanley. That's weird. Okay, let's just... Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. No, I'm glad that like... Well, I didn't... Can we have this wine?

Yeah. Have anything but that rosé. No. I have got some red to have. Do you want me to crack it open? Yeah. Yeah. I love...

Do you live near each other? Yes. Near enough. I live in South East London and this is South West London. Where do you live? South West, Barnes. Oh nice. Love Barnes. Yeah, I love it. How long have you been there? Eight years. You're kind of a Londoner now. Completely. Can't you tell by my accent? Do you miss the States? I miss my family. I miss my parents.

I haven't seen my parents for almost two years. And that is... And I used to live when... I used to live... That's because of the pandemic. But I used to live... My parents were still living in the house that I grew up in when I moved from Westchester, New York,

and I was living 10 minutes away. So it was, I would see them all the time. Is that quite a common Italian thing to do, to not fly too far from your nest? Yes, yeah, not as much anymore, but the first generations, like my parents, well, my grandparents came over but yeah my parents

never lived too far away from them and then I ended up not living too far away from my parents let's try this one I know I like this you know you like this so you were just giving me the cheap stuff because you were saving this for yourself

for after the podcast I went over 12 pounds for me is a lot, and it was reduced from £15. Really? Really, you shouldn't have. Because nobody was buying it. I must pour it right into my microphone. You're right, exactly. Oh, my God.

No, I love this one. You like this one. What is it? Let's hope it's a bit better. Yeah, I like it. Now you're going to have to say you like this one too actually I feel like we're getting on that you'll be like you know what I'm not sure about it

no this is nice it's not really heavy enough but it's fine not too woody are you a wine connoisseur probably is he's just bought wine for us and he bought two lovely parcels

they are nice bags but we appreciate them He's just bought wine for us, darling. And he bought two lovely parcels. I haven't given up on them. They're nice bags. They are nice bags. Yeah, the wine is just... But we appreciate it. No, I'm not a wine connoisseur by any means. I only know what I like. Yeah.

And I'm not... I don't go for the big fancy sort of stuff. You know, I always try to find a bargain. Do you not like Italian wines? No, no, I love Italian wines. Primitivo. Primitivo is delicious. I'm happy.

Yeah. And I really love any of the wines, like basically any of the wines from No, no, I love Italian wines. Primitivo. Primitivo is delicious. I'm happy. And I really love any of the wines, like basically any of the wines from Piemonte, like that Lange area where the Barbaresco and the Barolo and all that sort of... Barolo. Yeah, all that. It's like so good.

It doesn't have to be like the really expensive ones or anything. It's just... Do you go on holiday in Italy? When we... Yes, we used to before this happened. Where's your favorite place? That's very hard to say. I don't know. Do you go seas holiday in Italy? When we, yes, we used to before this happened. Where's your favorite place? That's very hard to say. I don't know.

Do you go seaside? Sometimes. Sometimes. Or the Tuscan Hills? Sometimes. Wherever. You know, we rent different places different times. You know, I really do like up north a lot.

Like, I love Lake Como, and I just think that's so beautiful. That's where you met your wife. That's where I met my wife. If I could live someplace. I mean obviously I live here but yeah if I could have another something. Can I grab a little of that ice over there?

Yeah of course. So you have a TV program that has just come out searching for Italy and some friends of mine such as Bella Macchi who listens to the podcast was so in love with this programme

she said I can't tell you anything about this because it's not out yet so can you tell us about Searching for Italy yes I can Searching for Italy singing in came to me about two and a half years ago and they said do you have any ideas for a show? And I said, yes, I have three different ideas.

One was about cancer, and I saw their eyes glaze over. And then one was about refugees and food. And then there was this one. And this is an idea that I've had for a really long time, which is breaking downaly region by region and the food and why that food is the way it is but also to sort of it's in a way sort of hopes of clarifying what italian food is which which is it can't really be clarified we can only the only thing that can be clarified is that it's from really simple ingredients and it basically is cucina povera. It's like all poor food.

But the influences over the centuries and millennia are profound because of where it's situated geographically. So if you think about it, the most southern point in Italy is on the island of Lampedusa. That's 90 miles away from the coast of North Africa. The highest point, farthest northern point, has a German name, and you're in the Alps. So everything in between is a combination of strangely both of those things. And the influences from the Arab world, from Africa, from Spain, from Germany, from Austria, from France,

from the Baltics. It's just, it's incredible. So what would be a dish in Lampedusa that you really feel the African influence? Something like, I think they call it beka fiko, which is like you'd have pine nuts, you'd have orange in there, you'd have raisins, and it's made with these tiny little fish and breadcrumbs. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's really cool. And then up north in Lombardy, which is the area of Lake Como, farther north into the Alps, you'll have a dish called pizzocori, which is all buckwheat noodles

you very seldom see a tomato or an eggplant or anything like that and you'll have buckwheat noodles with this special kind of cheese that's just from cows from that area cabbage lots of butter garlic and potatoes so this program takes you, you went on a food expedition all around Italy. The best job in the world, right? Yes. But more tiring than I thought. Really? Yeah, yeah.

I have to say. Who did you go with? Did you go with your wife? She came a couple of times. So she's in a couple of the episodes. And then we're going to go back and do more. But again, we just break it down region by region. But it was much harder than I thought. Do you the lingo i do a bit yeah enough to sound authentic yes enough

to get by yeah so i i lived in italy when i was a kid for a year but that was was that your parents making you go for a summer no no that was my dad went to my my dad studied at the academia for a year. So this is 1972, 73, I was 12. And he studied for a year and I went right into an Italian school. So within two months I spoke, I had to speak. That must have been quite daunting, right? I don't know. I don't remember it as being daunting. I remember it as being much easier than I thought.

I still couldn't do maths, but I could speak another language so how old were you 12 and is that why your lunch boxes changed to being fabulous is that why what your lunch boxes you were telling me about I read in your book so your book taste I'm enjoying it so much it's so beautiful and there was this moment we always ask our guests well actually we kind of sometimes forget because we drink too much wine but um we asked what their lunchbox was um at school oh and you do a whole week of lunchbox yeah um options that your mother used to give you can you go through some of these options sure yeah because the food was so bad right in america at school oh right in any school in any school probably anywhere in the

world let's face it but you were and my parents didn't buy it wasn't worth the money to you know to buy it and so we would have whatever i had for lunch was usually what was left over from dinner the night before so if we had eggplant parmigiana oh my favorite thing on earth then we would i would have that but as a sandwich. So within a sandwich. Did you resent your mum for that? Because was it that thing that yours were quite fragrant, and everyone else had like cheese and ham, your mate had marshmallow

fluff. Yeah, fluffernutter. Which, what is that? What even is it? Every now and again I would swap with him, but I would feel guilty and then I would wait another few months. Guilty because you loved your mum so much? Yes. Are you Catholic? Huh? Are you Catholic? Well, I would swap with him, but I would feel guilty. And then I would wait another few months. Guilty because you loved your mum so much. Yes. Are you Catholic?

Huh? Are you Catholic? Well, I was. Okay. Yeah. God, I'd swap the aubergine parmesan. I know. Wow.

So we'd have that. And then if we had like veal cutlets. So in the 1960s, right? Oh, yeah. Nice veal cutlets. The 1960s, veal was cheap. Yeah. Right?

You could get veal. Now it's like, I made veal the other night. You know, I had to take out another mortgage. Yeah. You know, with all the kids. But if you, you know, you should have veal cutlet sandwich one day. You know, the eggplant parmigiano. My mother would make like a, almost like a frittata.

She'd make just, at the end of the week, she would make just like sauteed peppers, potatoes, scrambled eggs. And you put that on like a half a loaf of italian bread that was amazing these were amazing but did you appreciate it at the time i did i did and then you have moments where you go like i just want to be like all of the other americans you know what i mean yeah bart or biff or you know sandy you know but i but yeah but then I was like, this is so fucking good, you know. You actually, it's really funny because I had dreams about... Can I...

Absolutely. Do you mind? I love it. He wants to get into the mirror of our moment. Let me... Thank you, darling. It's really interesting reading your book because you celebrate your mother's cooking

and you say that you... Just like you, Jess. Well, really interesting reading your book because you celebrate your mother's cooking and you say that you... Just like you, Jess. Well, actually, I do celebrate your cooking. But is that how it started? Yeah. And actually, I wrote my own kind of food memoir. Do you know you can call it a food war? How do you feel about that?

I like it. It sounds really French. Sounds like a loo. It sounds even more French. I mean, it sounds a bit more kind of... Collaboratory a bit. So anyway, I call mine a food memoir, but mine's very much more kind of uh collaborative a bit um so anyway I call mine a food memoir but mine's very much about kind of my Jewish upbringing so and mum's food and her always

having food on the table and you marvel at your mum doing that too there was always a home-cooked meal on the table every night oh yeah and you and your sisters like different bits and bobs but she kind of you know and she did i loved what she said about the neighbor please tell everyone what she'd say when you know she'd say i'd say well she said well you say what are we having for dinner and she'd say something like pork chops which i hated i don't know why i hated but i hated them i go oh really she'd go why don't you go over and see what the neighbors are having? Because the neighbor's food wasn't that fabulous. Oh, no, it was horrible.

No, no, there was no one, none of my friend's parents. Now, this is suburbia, but pretty kind of more rural, a little more rural suburbia than it is now. Westchester, New York, about 60 miles north of the city. I saw Barry White sing at the Westchester, whatever it is. Are you kidding? Biggest place on earth. Really?

Yeah, I was in New York with my brother. The Westchester, yeah, what's it called? Yeah, it was some big kind of... Arts thing or something. Yeah, my parents went and saw Frank Sinatra. I saw Barry White there and it was wonderful. Really? And I had to go on a train.

It was quite a bit of a way, but I was desperate to see him. Was he living in new york your brother yeah my brother lived in new york for a little while and i went when i was i must have been 21 22 right and we lived quite near grand central station oh wow um he was in an apartment there and i saw barry white was playing and i was there for six weeks and i just thought i'm going so i went oh yeah you just get the train up yeah it's like near White Plains or right yes yeah yeah and it was great yeah Westchester County Westchester County yeah yeah which is a huge it's huge isn't it huge yeah as soon as you come out of the Bronx you're in Westchester County it's like moving from

London to Windsor or to a bit more rural. A bit farther, but yeah. What I loved about the recipes in your book were, you know, you talk about how to make a pomodoro or your ragu, the family's ragu. But there was something so simple about it. Yeah. And not, I believe every dish is so satisfying and beautiful but and it reminds what you said about italian cooking the simplicity of it but like when done well yeah did your mother like cooking she says and i wrote this in the book that that she said she couldn't cook not

how to boil water when she met my father i still don't believe that to this day. Her mother was an amazing cook. You know, it's just a sort of... One, you have to have an innate talent for it, right? But I think that, for the most part, the people of Italy have that talent more than almost any other country. So there was just an understanding of taste. There was an understanding of flavor,

but there was also an understanding of the genesis of the vegetable or the meat or the whatever. Where did it come from? Why did it come from there? What do you do with it? How do you make sure that nothing goes to waste? And then how many different things can you make out of that that taste good? That's the lesson.

And I don't even think as a kid they knew my mother or her sisters knew that they were learning that. You just learned it. It was just a part of you. And then you're eating the food and you know what it's supposed to taste like. And then when you go out into the world and you start to taste things, you kind of go, ooh, what's that? That doesn't taste like blah, blah, blah. Should we put the...

I'm going to do it now. Okay. Am I... No, so... We're having tagliata. Tagliata? Yeah. Si.

Is that okay? Si, perfect. Was this a silly thing to do because we're cooking tagliata for an Italian? Why? I don't know. I'm kind of slightly nervous about this. Do we cook together? How do we do it? I mean, you can if you want. Mum was just going to whack it on because it takes such a short time.

Yeah, it's quick. Yeah. Yeah, whatever you want. I'm going to keep on asking you some questions. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Well, unless you want to cook. No, no, no. Are you a bit of a backseat driver in the kitchen, Stanley? Do you need to oversee Mum's tagliatelle? No, no, kitchen, Stanley. Do you need to oversee mum's tagliata? No.

Do you need to oversee mum's tagliata, which sounds so dirty? No, I don't. I don't need to oversee her tagliata. Are you sure? Yes, I'm positive.

Listen, if you feel like she's not doing something right, like the roast potatoes, you can go over there. I'm not. He's so appalled by the way we speak. I thought,

don't Italians speak to each other like this too? Constantly. Okay, fine. Constantly. You feel at home, no? Totally. Okay, fine. Yeah.

But maybe you've been with a British woman for too long now that you're so polite to each other. Well, I'm not. But she is. Sometimes if I say things and she'll say something and I'll go like, well, I don't know. Maybe the guy went over to the blah, blah, blah. She goes, why are you yelling at me? There's no need to take that tone. I'm like, I wasn't yelling at you. She goes, why are you so upset? I go, well, I don't know. Maybe the guy went over to the blah, blah, blah. She goes, why are you yelling at me? There's no need to take that tone. I'm like, I wasn't yelling at you.

She goes, why are you so upset? I go, I'm not upset. I'm just telling you that, I don't know. I don't know. The guy, I don't know why the guy did that. You know, something. And then it becomes this sort of conversation about, were you actually upset? It's like, no, I wasn't upset.

Well, what is upset? Do you know what i mean there's no question a lot of it is cultural so listen i need to know about this meryl streep situation with the how'd you say andrea undo it undo it undo it yeah you yeah cool yeah um that too that yes um Please paint the picture. Because we've had a similar story with another person in this podcast. Roisin Murphy, brilliant singer, tried this thing. Now people may not have listened to that episode.

The same thing? Yeah. Where? And she had a similar reaction. She tried it in Paris, I think. It's a very common reaction so can you explain for people that haven't okay heard of it so so andrea is made in Normandy and it's basically like a kind of a sausage however all of it's filled with entrails so it's not filled with meat so a sausage is an entrail right

an intestine filled with meat and spices whatever this is just like an entrail filled with entrails and they're strongly spiced i don't even know how much they're really cooked. I don't quite know. They're cleaned. I think they're maybe boiled. I don't know exactly. Why did you choose? But they'll also use, well, we didn't know.

So we thought, okay. So it'll use like the colon of the animal. I mean, like everything you don't, you just think, I don't want to eat that. It's in there. Yeah. Whatever you think. Okay. All right.

Whatever you think you don't want to eat of an animal will be in there. Okay. So, and it's a delicacy and sometimes they're quite big. I mean, there'll literally be, I mean, obviously there's a podcast,

you can't, but they're big. So Marilyn, I'll literally be, I mean, obviously there's a podcast, but you can't, but they're big. So, Meryl and I said, oh, Meryl, they have an andouillette. Do you think she goes, oh, yeah, I go, have you ever tried it? She goes, no. Did you know what you were doing? No, I had no idea. Okay, so it wasn't

like a trick. No, I thought it was like andouille sausage, which is a little sausage that's really delicious, you know, maybe slightly spicy, maybe, you know, but delicious. And I thought andouille sausage, which is a little sausage that's really delicious, you know, maybe slightly spicy, maybe, you know, but delicious. And I thought andouillette, et, make even smaller. So tiny little sausages, sweet little, lovely little, maybe spicy things. Yeah. Is that what?

Yeah. So she goes, I go, have you tried one? She goes, no. I go, should we try? She goes, yeah. She goes, I love sausage, love and one? She goes, no. I go, should we try it? She goes, yeah. She goes, I love sausage. Love on the sausage. Yeah, me too.

So she ordered it. I ordered it. Chris Messina ordered it. And Meryl's brother, Dana, ordered it. And you're filming. No, we're not filming. No, we're doing a press junket. We're on our way to do a press junket in Paris.

We went to the Deauville Film Festival. To promote Julia and Julia. Which is an amazing festival that is so much fun and beautiful and the food there is incredible and you have the incredible wines and you have Calvados because it's the Normandy area and that

morning we went to the D-Day Beaches and we had a tour of that. It was just kind of your dream. Then you're going to Paris. You're going to do an incredible press tour for a movie that you actually like, which doesn't always happen. And you're going to be with your friends and you're going to eat and you're going to have a good time.

And you're with Meryl Streep. And you're with Meryl. Is she as great as everyone? She's the greatest. She's the loveliest person I mean incredibly generous person and like a very dear she's a devoted friend it's really sweet she's amazing all right so so we go all right we'll have this so we have some wine we have our little appetizers so our mains come which is the andrea and basically what and this is what i wrote in the book what is put before us

i can only say it resembled a horse cock and i looked at it and i thought it doesn't even really look like it's not only does it look like a horse cock but it looks like an uncooked horse cock oh delicious so we both sort of looked at each other and I went wow

that's not what I expected she goes no it looks like a horse cock so we tasted it and needless to say, I almost vomited. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, it was that. As soon as it went, as soon as it just touched my tongue, I almost threw up. Her brother took one huge bite, swallowed it, took another bite,

and then looked at me like he was ashen. Meryl tasted it, and she said, oh, well, it does have a bit of the barnyard about it. And needless to say, then the guy, you know, the owner comes over and he looks at us and he goes, so the Andouillette, we go, oh, no, it's really great. But it's just not what we expected. You know, it's just not, it's a little like, you know, it's just not it's a little like you know it's different than others we've had you know you're just lying and lying trying to was he offended no not at all not at all not not not not like you think he expected not like a parisian no he goes okay he says would you like anything else and we said, yeah, can we just have four omelets?

So the studio had to pay for our mistake. Oh, my God. Yeah. But it wasn't, I mean, it was really horrible. I'm very adventurous when it comes to food, but I'm sorry. But I have to say, if you ever get the chance, you have to. Do not try it. No, do not try it, but you have to at least see it and smell it. Okay. Not when you're pregnant, but you. No. Yeah, do not try it, but you have to at least see it and smell it. Okay.

Not when you're pregnant. No. Yeah, that would be not good. Because it is unlike anything. And just look up the Wikipedia. I put the Wikipedia definition in the book because it's a really funny description of it. I will. Now, I want to know, because you are adventurous, but you can't eat spice, can you?

No, I can't now. Was that something that happened since? No, I never cared for spice, but since I had treatments, I haven't been able to eat spice. Do you feel like, do you miss any dishes? No, I like a little bit of pepperoncino every now and again. But I never was a really spicy i was never interested in spice that much i mean every now and again a little chorizo or something but i never i i would like sometimes like a thai curry uh you know not but not my but my could you not even have

a green curry oh no oh no that's like like somebody takes a blowtorch to your mouth. Oh, really? Yeah. If you have radiation, and I had very high-dose radiation because I had a tumor in the back of the base of my tongue, it destroys so much of your soft tissue. It destroys your taste buds. It destroys your saliva.

It destroys. And it takes a very, very long time to come back. And it burns out your nerves. So because those nerves are burned, this is what I was told, that anything that touches them is like hypersensitive. And you'd think it'd sort of be the opposite. You'd think they'd be dulled. But in fact, the opposite is true. So a doctor suggested to me a little while ago that I take a little Tabasco sauce. I'm not kidding. And put it in water and drink it.

He said because what that's going to do is that's going to help them. It'll help them work again. And how did it feel? I haven't done it. You haven't done it yet? No, I'm too afraid. Right. Yeah. I really was fascinated by well it makes a lot of sense

but you're very prescriptive about and I now probably understand that most Italians are the same about which pasta goes with which sauce. I've been doing it wrong. Have you? Well, I think so.

No, don't. I wasn't here. It's all right. But, like, it really gets your goat. Yeah, it gets my goat, yeah. What's the worst thing that somebody could do, though? Cutting the spaghetti. It's just an absolute no no no no no unless you don't have teeth or you're a toddler yeah you're a toddler yeah but even then it's just fun to watch a toddler eat spaghetti i quite my son usually chokes on it

because he's such a greedy bugger that he kind of doesn't chew it so then he's got all these things and then it's kind of like he's got like he's like medusa yeah exactly so would you say that that's like i guess that's quite a kind of it's an italian table manner that you don't appreciate to see no it's it's it's it's egregious i mean you just don't you just don't do that I saw somebody do it recently and I was like... I had to do everything I could to restrain myself. No, it's just weird. And will you never go out for dinner with them again? Or just not an Italian with them?

Yeah, I can't, yeah. I'll give them a piece of steak. I really, I kind of... It's tough. It's like people rinsing off their pasta after you cook it. Hold on, what, to like cool it down? I don't know. Why do people rinse it?

I have no idea. That is a really good point. A lot of people do it. They cook the pasta, they put it into the colander, then they run cold water on it. And you're like... Why? Why would you do that?

You basically just took all of that beautiful starch, that gluten, all that stuff, and you just got rid of it. That's a very good point. Yeah, it's weird. Have you found that more people have offended you since you've come to old Blighty with how they eat pasta? No, no, no, not at all. Actually, no. No, not at all. But you've been living in London.

Yeah. Or the UK for eight years did you say yeah where are some of i mean i don't want to give away the whole book but like where are some of your absolute favorite places to eat oh my god there are so many okay but like you know you're the one that you booked as soon as you were allowed out of lockdown riva which is in barns amazing really yeah amazing a lot of the chefs go there and they love Mr. Riva who runs it. Giorgio Locatelli's restaurant.

That's delicious. Boca del Lupo, fantastic in Soho. Francesco Mazzei's restaurant, Sartoria. So if you are going out, do you go for Italian quite a lot? Because I guess quite a lot of restaurants are off out do you go for italian quite a lot because i guess quite a lot of restaurants are off you know you limits to you now yeah a little bit yeah a japanese i love japanese food i love chinese food i mean i can't really go to an indian restaurant now i can't go

to a thai restaurant now as much as i'd like to and even Japanese is hard because um sushi rice has vinegar in it and I can't really eat vinegar that much now um because it's so stringent when you have the treatment I mean so it was in the back of your tongue yes I mean that for somebody that I mean wants to to live but also likes food yeah were you terrified that terrified that you would do it? I was terrified. I was terrified. I thought I was never, ever going to be able to do what I'm doing right now, sit here and have a glass of wine and talk to you,

and your mother would be cooking a steak. You were the only two I thought of. That was us. We got you through it. Yeah. No, I thought I'd never be able to do this again. It was so bad and it lasted for months i had a feeding tube and uh and i mean i couldn't eat um orally for months

and then eventually when i did uh it was it was very slow going i still like certain things still i can't really eat fruit that much it tastes odd to me and it sort of hurts a bit so yeah I was really frightened and it was very depressing and there's no question I suffered from depression during it and

yeah during the treatment after the treatment it was really hard is that why you've I mean you've made this TV show. You've written this book. Maybe you were writing the book before you got the treatment. But you're celebrating food in so many different spaces. I think it's really just, honestly, it's coincidental.

I had written, I had a bunch of stuff written down about food before. I never intended to write a memoir. I never thought my life certainly would ever be worthy of a memoir. I'm still not sure. But because it's through the prism of food, then it's, I do have something to say, I think, about it. Honestly, I'm loving it. Oh, good. It's so, it's brilliant.

And it's just... But yeah, I was writing stuff because I always wanted to write a little book about, just little essays about food. So it'd be just sort of, you know, a collection of little food essays, little stories, and maybe some recipes, a few sketches, stuff like that. I thought that'd be cool. I never expected it to take this, know to turn into this but also the the show it's a show that i had thought about 12 15 years ago almost and i had made notes about it and came up with the sort of like little mini treatment for it and then they came to me and they said, what would you like to do? And then I thought, oh my God, really?

And I said this, and they went, you saw their eyes light up, the CNN people. You just saw their eyes light up and go. And like almost immediately it was, okay. Would you do another series? Yeah, we're doing more. So were you going to other countries? No, and we talked about that,

but I don't know that I'm the right person to go to other countries. It was interesting. Somebody sent me a review in The Guardian, and the Guardian review of our show was amazing. It was really lovely. And the guy said, but if he were to go to France or blah, blah, blah,

whatever he said, it wouldn't be the same because there's a connection. And that's what I had said. I don't feel that it's my job to go to France or to Scandinavia or to China or to whatever. First of all, I would never see my family. Second of all, I don't have a connection to those places. I have a connection to Italy. I don't have a connection to those places I have a connection to Italy but what we are going to do

we have now we're planning spin-offs of the show that I'll produce oh my god how gorgeous is that that I'll produce and then we'll with the same production company and with CNN we'll spin this off

and start to do, We'll do Spain. We'll do Italy. But with different people. We'll do France. Yes. With people who are, like me, food obsessed. Maybe they're actors. Maybe they're whatever.

Shit. Yeah. It's really fucking hard. Sorry. Jesus. Jesus. Sorry. Yeah.

Jesus. Do we swear more than your family swear? No. Okay, fine. That's good to know. No. So we swear more than your family swear? No. Okay, fine. That's good to know. No. So that's the plan. Because I think it's really important that you have a connection to that country.

Thank you so much. I think you have to. Thank you, Mom. Wow, this is an absolutely gorgeous salata. Would you like some more wine? Because you're a bit... Yes, I'll do it. Good. I so. Would you like some more wine, because you're a bit... Yes, I'll do it.

Good. I like... Do you want some red wine? I'm okay right now. This is great. Thank you. Okay, good. Should I pass you some asparagus? Sure. Jesse, make sure you get the tortos in. Yeah. Look at how beautiful that is. Oh, guys, this is gorgeous. Are you a good cook?

Sometimes. So which recipe did your mother pass on to you that you feel like you were talking about that with saying

it just kind of becomes inbuilt in you there's a lot of them I mean like to me the eggplant parmigiana is just one of the

greatest things ever the lasagna bolognese is one of the greatest things ever steak oregano is amazing chicken ala caccia torre rabbit stew veal stew one of the greatest things ever. Steak oreganata is amazing. Chicken ala cacciatore.

Rabbit stew, veal stew. Which one is the one? If we were coming over to yours, and you were like, Lenny and Jessie are coming over, I'm gonna pull out the big guns, which one are you gonna do? Lasagna bolognese. Really?

Yeah. Oh, we never do lasagna. It's really, really hard to make. Well, that's why we don't do it, Mum. Yeah. Because Stanley's not there. Well, no, because it's really hard to make. Well, that's why we don't do it, Mum. Because Stanley's not there. Well, no, because it's really hard to make. Why is it so hard to make? Is it...

Because you've got to make the pasta. It has to be the right... You make the pasta? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, fine, fair enough. Yeah. What would be your last supper?

Are you going to return to your mother's kitchen? Or are you going to go somewhere else mother's kitchen or are you going to go somewhere else no why would i go anywhere else jesse take note i think you have to i think you have to you know it's comfort food isn't it so what what would be actually i think aubergine parmesan is going on my desert island meal. Don't bloody steal his line. Why do you have to say that? You've reminded me of how it's delicious. I'm going to make you some. I'm going to come.

I'm going to make you some. So starter, what are we doing? A starter's hard, but I almost feel like I want to say something like a starter that I had at Scott's, you know the restaurant Scott's? I started that I had at Scott's, you know the restaurant Scott's? Yeah. Which was razor clams with a little bit of, maybe it was, it might have been a punch. It's vongole.

Huh? Is it a vongole? No, no, a razor clam. Oh, I hate those. Why? You do? Why? I don't know why I don't like them.

Sometimes they can be a bit gritty. They're chewy. No, no, no, That's because they haven't been cooked properly. They've been overcooked. Okay. That's why. You have to cook them really fast. Okay, so it's razor clams. What's they have? I think a razor clam, they had like olive oil and they had like maybe a little bit of pancetta or a little bit of prosciutto or something.

I mean, they were like... Heaven. Absolutely delicious. Okay, that's your starter. Delicious. Then probably, as a main, lasagna bolognese. Made by you or your mother? My mother. Not by me. Okay.

No. Yeah. And then, what? Pud. Pud. Your big pud, ma'am? No. You better be a bit of a pud man, ma'am.

I probably just have another helping of lasagna bolognese. Or a cheese plate? Yeah, a cheese plate. Okay. And drink? After the lasagna. That's hard. Oh, you're taking it too literally.

I know, but I'm thinking about it. And then drink? Well, to begin. Okay. Well, because you like a cocky tea, don't you? Yeah. What's a cocky tea? Cocktail.

Oh. Oh, me too. Which one's yours? Well, I have a martini. Oh, you like what? Dirty? No. Oh, I like dirty.iel? Cocktail. Oh, me too. Which one's yours? Well, I have a martini. Oh, you like martini. Dirty? No. Oh, I like dirty.

Clean? Very clean. Yeah. I'd like to have a really beautiful gin or vodka martini. Do the James Bond people know that you're partial to the odd... I think they're casting the new James Bond. I know. Listen, listen.

I know, I know. I'm listen. I know, I know. I'm just, you know, 30 years too old. Too short and bald. So not. But the... Yes, that. And then I'd have the martini. And then with the Bolognese,

I'd have a little bit of white wine in between. And then you'd have a proper, like... A big glass of red. Yeah, a nice glass of red. You know, something from Pianzi, the Barolo. Something of real substance. And then with the cheese plate, with the cheese plate, I have the Barolo.

With the Bolognese, I'd have something, I don't know what. Like something, a Nebbiolo grape, which is... I don't think you drink, I don't think you're a big drinker. What are you talking about? He's paired every meal with a drink and he's drunk a bottle of wine with you in bloody hour.

He's ready for the next one. Sorry, that's a little slow. I'm going to open another one. I think that's a little slow. So, okay. Do you like karaoke? I bet you don't. I don't. Would you if you like karaoke? I bet you don't I don't

I'm would you if you had to? if Meryl said do a duet with us no you wouldn't? no no she has a beautiful voice

and I yeah gorgeous she didn't sound like it in Florence what's her name? who? no come here

come here the Florence thing what Florence? the one with no the one with the one with Hugh Grant yeah what the hell is it

you had a piece of potato it's gone no it's gone it was a piece of potato this is great I have a lot of

highlights of gloat for you but no potato I thought you were going to say she wasn't good in Mamma Mia

no she did a good job going on amazing no the Florence Foster Jenkins thing she wasn't supposed to be able to sing well. No, I know. No, I thought you were. Okay, so what would be your karaoke song? Oh, God. Can you sing? Huh? No, I don't. Because you have a very nice kind of fruity voice. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, but I'm not a singer. I like the, I know the lyrics to a lot of, like the American Songbook and all that.

I love all that. I might say, it's something like... Do you like musicals? Yes, I do. Me too. Yeah, I do. What's your favourite? Hard to say.

On the Town's pretty great. Yeah. I know that one. Yes, you do, with the three... Gene Kelly, we're going on the town. We're going to take that city. I think you've got a good voice. I think you should do a West End next.

Stanley. Stanley, you evoke lots of memories of food. What's a fragrance that would remind you of your mum? Or a fragrance that takes you back somewhere. That takes you back somewhere. I think really something simple. Like just... When you just have olive oil in a pan you back somewhere that takes you back somewhere i think really something simple like just when you just have olive oil in a pan with a little bit of garlic and onion just that and then and then

my mother starts to make a marinara it just the whole house just changes you know that's that's what i do like if we rent a house someplace or if I go on location and I have to stay in a hotel, an apartment for an extended period of time, I will the first thing I'll do is stock up and I'll just light the stove and just cook marinara sauce so that the smell goes through

everything and then you just feel better. You feel slightly grounded. I love that. It just makes you feel better fried fish balls Jewish oh good filter fish every week if I cook it this it's powerful yeah it is powerful and you stink so you can only cook it before week but if I cook it this it's powerful yeah it is powerful and you stink so you can only cook it before you have a bath it's the filter fish from herring is it herring no no it's just a white fish it's just a mixture of white fishes carp place hake oh yeah haddock

and then you mix it all together with onion and egg and that's a meal and then you fry it that is one thing i miss about new york the jewish yeah really oh my god yeah because i lived on the upper west side we had so many jewish jewish delis you had zay bars on the upper west side which is incredible eli zay bar this guy opened this place i don't know how many years ago 50 years ago it's huge it's basically an emporium of food um but particularly like sort of New York Jewish then you had Barney Greengrass which was an amazing deli uh meaning like you'd go in you could order stuff you could sit down and they'd make you, sturgeon and eggs and all that sort of, lox and bagels. And I mean, I really miss that.

You know, chicken noodle soup, soup and matzo balls, borscht, all that. You can't really get it. You can't get it. No. So your book is out. Yeah. And the TV show's out. Yeah.

Can people watch it in the UK, by the way? Now they can. What's it on? CNN International. Okay, fine. So I guess if you have Sky. Okay. Wait, you get it on old Netflix?

Well, I... Maybe. I agree. But that was not... Can it? Under my... Well, maybe someday if they choose to sell it to them. But it's up to CNN. They're the ones who

they control it. So, what's next? Are you shooting anything at the moment? No, we're going to shoot the London episode here. So we're shooting an episode of our show, but here, with Italian chefs and Italian immigrants, and so on and

so forth. Telling the story of... Because you have I think close to 400,000 Italian immigrants and so on and so forth, telling the story of, because you have, I think, close to 400,000 Italian immigrants in London. I didn't know that. It's huge. It's huge. And a lot of them are in the hospitality business. And as you know,

we have incredible restaurants here that are Italian restaurants. So that's going to be the focus of this episode. We're doing it because we can't go to Italy. And we thought, well, let's... You live here. It's authentic. Yeah, why why not and you have and what what are those stories why are so many young people coming from italy still to to live and work in london and that's a really interesting story to me and a lot of them end up going into the food business but

even if they don't we're telling stories that are connected to food because Italians are always connected to food, no matter what their sort of social status is. A cab driver and a princess will be on equal footing when they talk about food. And that doesn't happen in any other country as far as I know. Even with the north-south divide of Italy,

there's still that common thread with the food? I think without question. I think it is the common denominator. It's the thing that brings everybody together. Garibaldi united the country in the 1860s. The real thing, one of the reasons we wanted to do the show was to show the diversity of Italian food, but also to show that no matter who you are, no matter what your social standing, no matter what your upbringing, there is this obsession with food. And it is the only way that they communicate.

Yeah, that's the kind of very, there's a real similarity with that. It is the only way that they communicate. Yeah, that's the kind of very, there's a real similarity with that. And Jewish food, it's kind of, it's not the same, because I think that... Well, it's not the same because there isn't, you know, because, you know, the Italians come from this one place. The Jews are scattered all over the world so there are dishes that are similar from you know if you go to Israel if you go to you know to Eastern Europe there are dishes that are similar but it's it's it's different because it's not necessarily a single race of people. I'm leaving it on the bottom of the thing.

What is that? Stop it. But you don't have to eat... I feel like you have used quite Italian ingredients today, Mother. This is gorgeous. Gennaro makes one of these. And that's some mascarpone. Jess, do you want some?

You're a lovely guest. Jessie, do you want some? Yes, a sliver please. Is this the way you grew up? Like this? Yes, my mum has always done this. I mean, look, she's zhuzhed it up today. You put like this every day.

There was always a kind of dessert after. Even if it was, you know, the offering of ice cream in the fritter. This is gorgeous. Mum, this is great. You've really done good today, gal. Good. Amazing. Perfect Italian meal.

Aw. It's been such a pleasure having you. I mean, we knew you were going to be a goodie. But we'll have to do a part two when you've got your next book or series out. Yeah. And you can bring the parmigiana. Let's do this again.

Thank you so much for doing this again, thank you thank you you look very young thank you your skin is beautiful and that is not the wine talking no baby shut that mic up God, I love Stanley Tucci. I'm just a little bit in love.

I know. I felt like you had a real thing going on you two. Darling, he did say quietly, would you like to come to my house for dinner and I'll make you aubergine parmigiana? I think he meant to invite you as well, darling. It wasn't just me. Oh, no, you take that.

I said, I'll bring the chicken soup, he said, darling. What an absolute gent, full of stories and opinions and just grace. And, I mean, that makes me feel like we do this podcast for, you know. Yeah, it was. The perks of meeting fabulous men. He was the perfect guest. Like Stanley Tucci.

Yeah, he was fun. He was warm. He was generous, spirited. You liked my food, Jessie. He loved your food. Stanley Tucci's Taste is out now. You can try and find his programme Searching for Italy on CNN,

what do you say, international. And also you could just watch him in loads of films. Or what? Just seen your grey hair. Oh, fuck off. I thought I said something wrong. Fucking hell.

Yeah, I need to dye my hair again. Piss off. But just really, really enjoyed that. Mum, I've got other things to think about at the moment. Like, you know... Get it done quickly, girl. Don't let things down.

Oh, Mum, leave me alone. Anyway, Stanley Tucci, thank you for being such a fantastic guest. Tell all your mates about us. Imagine if we got Meryl Streep. Because she went, oh, Stanley just said he had the best time ever. Stanley.

Anyway, what a pleasure. I hope you enjoyed that as much as we did. And, Mum, that polenta cake was absolutely banging. And what about the rest of everything? I mean, everything was great. I do think mascarpone is the way to go. I agree. It's kind of better than cream, isn't it?

It's that texture because you don't have to whip it. I did put a bit of cream in because it was so thick. I thought we're not going to get it on the plate. Also, let me just tell you, clementines don't work. Oh, what? For that zest? I couldn't zest it. It's too soft, the skin.

I'm very sorry. Yeah, just one thing you had to remember today, darling. You forgot it. Sorry. But you remembered to bring all your washing i have yeah well thank you so much for listening and we will see you next week