Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S12 Ep 7: Billy Porter

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

A Dutch baby and champagne was only right for this week’s guest, even if it was before noon….the iconic Billy Porter.We spoke to Billy about moving from New York and living his new life in Long Island, falling in love with musical theatre after watching ‘The Whizz’, his turkey burger speciality, working with Jade Thirlwall and MNEK on his debut single & his many many projects! But most importantly we discussed who would play Billy’s bodyguard if we remade the movie. A joy to listen and learn from Billy, and we ask you….Could he be even more fabulous than Lennie?! Billy, we love you! x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Mum, who's let me know she's been up from the crack of dawn and I mustn't make a mess in the house. No, you mustn't because I've been making everything look nice and vogue-like. How do you make your house vogue-like? Vogue. Vogue-ing. I got it. Did you get it? Yeah. Why, bloody Madonna gonna pop out? No, but someone else might do who voguing. I got it. Did you get it? Yeah. Why, bloody Madonna gonna pop out? No, but someone else might do who vogues. Yes, well.

I actually don't know if Billy Porter does vogue or not. I mean, I've watched Pose. Didn't he dance at the beginning? Well, so, Billy Porter, who we have on today, who we're very excited about, because I'm a huge fan of Pose, he is the MC of the ball. But I don't know if I've ever properly seen Billy's ball dance.

Well, does he not sing? Oh, he sings. Mum, he's musical, Broadway. Kinky Boots, he's in The New Cinderella with Camilla Cabello and just did Global Citizens. He was on the telly for that. He's got a fabulous ball. Well, yeah, he sings because he's got a bloody record deal

with Island Records now. And he's got a song out. yeah he sings Because he's got a bloody Record deal With Island Records now And he's got a song out And the people that wrote the song M&EK And Jade Thirlwell From Little Mix R.Jade R.Jade And he just won

Man of the Year Attitude Awards And I bumped into him At a fashion show Of course you did darling Before When you used to go to fashion shows This fucking pandemic started When you used to go started when you said we touched each other in all the right places no just very politely no we touched each other and had a cuddle and um and

i really loved him and so i'm really thrilled that we've got him on he's always at the right shows and he has a husband i wonder is he bringing his husband? Don't know because my Dutch baby might not go that far. So what have you made for Billy Porter? A Dutch baby. It's a Dutch baby. What does that mean, Mother? Your sister told me to make it. She said it always impresses everyone.

It's basically a cross between a Yorkshire pudding and a pancake. what I need when I'm uh you know trying to get back into the biz this isn't all about you apparently not about pleasing people I'll probably have seconds won't I it's okay honestly it's like so it's basically like your Yorkshire puddings that you used to do before you learned how to make Yorkshire puddings but this is a sweet version and you I bought a new skillet especially for it and I've had to add a bit of extra ingredients the American lingo to skillet well it's a different sort of thing because it's kind of flatter you have to bake it in the oven for 20 minutes in a lot of butter and then you put I say this is keto then no because, because it's got flour. Then you put berries in the middle and dust it with icing sugar and have it with creme fraiche. And if he doesn't like that, well, he can have a piece of toast.

I always get... I just thought it'd be fun to... I'd get a Dutch baby on the side. I'd have it for the table. That's what I like to do with the pancakes at brunch. I thought it's a funny time that he's coming at 10 in the morning. It's neither breakfast nor brunch. I suppose I could have funny time that he's coming at 10 in the morning. It's neither breakfast nor brunch. I suppose I could have done brunch,

but I'm a bit bored with that. No, I'm excited for this. He'll have had a Dutch baby before. Oh, Mum. I mean, no, because they're American. Oh, I thought you meant another one. Oh, no. In fact, they're called over there,

it's a cross between a pancake and a popover. What's a popover? I think they're Yorkshire puddings in American. We'll have to ask Billy about that. Billy Quartet coming up on Table Manners. I love that I'm here. We said this like two years ago at Fashion Week. Oh my, how fabulous is that whole statement?

I love this. Darling, we go back, Fashion Week. It was Fashion Week. Jessie, I think you were pregnant with your middle child then. I'm done. I'm done now. She had one more. She was three.

I'm done. She just said, I'm always fucking pregnant. I said, the last time I saw you, I think you were, I didn't even get it out. She said, I'm always fucking pregnant. Have you hung up your boots now? I think I have. But yeah, the last time we saw each other was pre all this bloody COVID bullshit. Yes. And we were there and it was fashion and you're always, I mean, everyone loves you, Billy, but the UK loves you. I do? Like, really? And it really is special to me. You know, I've always had, you know, I joke. I grew up in... Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the ghetto, in the hood, you know. And I was introduced, I grew up in the church, the Pentecostal church, and I was introduced to theater in the sixth grade. I was introduced to musical theater in middle school. And it was what we call in America desegregation the second time they tried it. And so, you know, people from different areas and different backgrounds and different neighborhoods were being bused out of their neighborhood to go to other schools to mix with white people essentially you know so it was a valiant effort but the unfortunate part about it to integrate but the unfortunate part about it is that the schools and minority neighborhoods were subpar so by the time most of the black a lot of the black kids got to

these new schools they would then test you for aptitude and then separate you from that so then you're in the school and all the white people are in one class and all the black people are in another class based on aptitude so it's like i happen to pass the test and get into the scholars program classes you know but i'm 11 years old you know there are 30 people in a class and two of us are black. So now I'm like, what do I do now? You know, they had these after school programs. This was right as Reagan was being elected. So the after school programs, the programs that cared about the people were still intact. It was the beginning of the dismantling of this.

So when I tell you the after school program packet was like this thick front and back with all different things that you could like be a part of like that. But could your family support you in that? No, that's why I'm saying they were after school programs that were. Oh, so you could. That were government supported. Right? So there were all of these programs.

That's quite amazing. It was amazing. And there was this program called Reisenstein. The school was called Reisenstein. And there was this program called Reisenstein Musical Theater. And I went because I was musical. And I was like, well, maybe I can sing. And then they explained to us what a musical was.

And they said, you're going to come back next week and sing in front of everybody. And then we'll cast the show and everybody will be double cast. You know, there were hundreds of people in the room and it was like, everybody will be double cast. And I was like, okay, the show is Richard Rogers and Hearts, Babes in Arms. I didn't know what that was. You know, interestingly enough, it was my birthday. And so my grandmother and my great aunt came to pick me up at school and surprised me, took me to downtown Pittsburgh, took me out to dinner, and then took me to see the touring company of The Wiz.

Oh! Ease on down the road. he's on down the road he's on down the road and so i'm sitting there going wait i think this is what the teacher was just talking about this is theater amazing i like this you know and then we get to the end of the show and and of course I love it, you know, and we get to the end of the show and Dorothy sings a song called Home, and I'm a mess. And like my grandmother and Aunt Dorothy had to peel me out of the seat, like I couldn't even, you know, and I went to school. Home is such a gorgeous song. It's a beautiful song. So I go to my music teacher and I'm like, I just saw the ways I want to sing a song called home. I don't know how to do that.

Like, can you help? And within like a day or two, she brought me the sheet music and the album. We're talking album vinyl. This was your teacher. This was my teacher, you know?

And so I learned the song. I learned home. I came to the next week. I sang home for the audition. The cast list went up every role was double cast except me muscle toe and I was like what does that mean you know what I mean like when you're you're a star that's what it means but when like you know the first five years 11 but for the first

five years of school I was just bullied oh really you know daily incessantly bullied and you know because I was a little sissy and it you know and it was like but when I opened up my mouth to sing you have power the bullying stopped. And I had this sort of power. And I had this kind of respect. And I was like, well, that's what I need to focus on. I couldn't play sports. But here the cast list goes up.

And literally hundreds of people are double cast in everything. Ensemble roles are double cast. And I'm not. What's that teacher called do you remember her name uh Betsy Schmidt and the reason why I know and the reason why I know is because I just finished my memoir and so I've gone back and I've but so Betsy Schmidt was the first year and then my instrumental teacher who I'm still friends with who I cast in the movie that I just my first movie that I directed and shot in Pittsburgh is in the movie um and he's still my friend Mr. Lutz he plays a librarian no what's his musical instrument oh what did I play yeah I played the saxophone alto sax

you're kidding I did were you good I was good I was good but I had to choose child at a certain point I was doing too many things and at at a certain point, it was like, are you going to be on this stage? Are you going to be in the pit? Obviously. Obviously, nobody puts me in the pit. No way. I can't see you in the pit.

So talk to us about the film. So the film, the working title is called What If. We have to change it because fucking Marvel stole my title. The Bostons. You know, they already have a TV show on called What If. So we have to change the title. I don't know yet. But essentially, it is a coming of age romantic comedy in the spirit of the old John Hughes movies from the 80s.

And it follows a black transgender high school girl. She gets a girlfriend. She gets into college. It's, you know, a love story. It's a comedy. And it's about trans joy. You know, one of the things that I've been talking about post-pose, you know, is now what stories can we tell? Like now that it's cracked open, now that the conversation is cracked open, you know, I wanted it to be about, well, it came to me. The came to me through christine vachon who's that christine vachon is the godmother essentially of modern queer cinema okay um

you know i mean obviously she's done more than just queer cinema but she's been one of the the uh pioneers you know the pioneers who you know, so she came to me with this script. You would know her for Boys Don't Cry. Oh, yeah, right. Far From Heaven. Oh, okay. Velvet Goldmine. Yes, yes, yes.

You know, all that stuff. So she's, you know, very prolific and amazing and called me, you know, and, you know, one of my dreams, you know, from 20 years ago, discovering, you know, that I didn't my dreams you know from 20 years ago discovering you know that I didn't have to be in a box and that I could be whatever I wanted to be all I needed to do was speak life into myself and do the work to get there you know it's powerful and and magical what we can inspire in ourselves and create for ourselves. So, I mean, before, obviously, I came to you with Pose. Mm-hmm.

But you were doing Broadway before that. You were doing, I mean, you were working. I've been. You've been at R&B. You've been signed. You've done it all. But, like, do you feel that now more than ever the world is your oyster just because I do and I have to say that the journey to my truth

the journey to my authenticity you know and being able to sit in the fullness of that no matter where the chips may fall. That's where I had to get to. I was told from the moment that I could comprehend thought. When my lovely, gorgeous family, I love them to death, very religious,

I was sent to a fucking psychologist in kindergarten because i was a sissy and they were afraid you know and so the messaging i got from the start is something's wrong with you and you need to be fixed so of course when somebody says to me your queerness is your liability how can you not believe them you know the proof is right there and it was my liability for

decades you know in every space in every space whether it was the personal space whether it was the professional space you know whether it was the intimate space, whether it was the professional space, you know, whether it was the intimate space, whatever it was, wherever I went, my queerness was my liability.

And then I was watching Oprah, as we all in America would want to do for 25 years, and still do. And, you know, she had Maya Angelou on and Yonla Vansant. And they were talking about switching your intention in life. What is your intention in life? When you switch your intention to service, everything else will work itself out. How old were you? This was at least 20 years ago and I was like what this service look like for me like I stood in front of the mirror and said how can I be of service and it hit me like a ton of bricks you know it's your queerness

everything that everyone is telling you is your liability is your actual service. How do you choose that when your service is not going to get you fed? It's not going to get you paid. It's going to make you a vilified human being. Like, I don't know how I chose it anyway I don't know why I had the tenacity to do that I don't understand it people ask me all the time it's like well you know my mother is disabled she gets out of bed every morning she look she conquers life I got a lot of it from her you. I got a lot of it from her. You know, I got a lot of it from the ancestors whose shoulders on which I stand. I get it.

I had no other choice, but I look at my life would come because of my authenticity and because of my truth. And how, but how are your family, are you close with your family? And how is that your kind of your queerness and celebration of your queerness? It has changed everybody yeah okay you know me standing in my truth me standing in the fullness of that and not being afraid to hold the dogma and the rhetoric of my upbringing and my family and my culture accountable. That's where I'm at. There are so many beautiful things that I got from my religious community.

The human being that I am is because of those teachings, a lot of those teachings. My problem is so many of those people don't live by those teachings. A lot of those teachings. My problem is so many of those people don't live by those teachings. So many of those people don't practice what they preach. I stand at the intersection of holding that community accountable. Your language is murderous.

You're killing people. I have a Bible too. I know what it says. And you are not practicing what that book says. And somebody needs to call you out for that. All of you evangelicals who stand behind that Bible and act like Trump is the savior. Fuck you. is the savior. Fuck you. Somebody needs to say it. But I mean, we've seen a lot of that with,

for example, with the vaccine. Yeah. The church coming out against saying it's the work of the devil and you shouldn't be in the, so I've just been in the Bahamas and the church are actively telling people

not to be vaccinated because they say it's the work of the devil. Murderous. Yeah. You're murderers. Yeah. And be vaccinated because they say it's the work of the devil. Murderers. Yeah. You're murderers. And somebody needs to fucking say it out loud. But they don't. People, only 16% of the Bahamas have been vaccinated.

What? 16. And the church are not encouraging people. They're saying you should stay away from it. It's not good. Yeah. Because Jesus told you to do that. I'd go to the church of Billy's Water.

I tell you that. I'm not. I just can't do that anymore. But it was the same during the AIDS epidemic as well, Jessie. Everyone said. AIDS is God's punishment. So they should die anyway. People should die because it was God's punishment.

It was horrendous. And that's what I grew up with. You know, so coming out in the church, being young when that was happening. And then, you know, I mean, I could talk about this because I talk about it in my book, but I was molested by my stepfather from the age I was from the age of seven to twelve so imagine oh my god i'm going to church all the time and then hearing now i'm an abomination and aids is god's punishment you know i was 12 years old i thought i was gonna die of aids this is the shit y'all put us through no no no more and whoever i can help by speaking the truth is what I'm doing. That's my ministry.

That's what I was placed here on this planet to do and be. You know, and I understand that now. And that has come from sitting inside of my truth, sitting inside of my authenticity and realizing, oh, that is my calling. This is my calling. this is my calling dare I say my ministry is the truth for all of you out there who feel like you've been abandoned by the mainstream Billy do you believe in God I don't know neither do I I don't know that hurts my mother's feelings I know it hurts her feelings it hurts her heart so much and i don't know i don't know i do believe in something in something i do believe in a higher power i don't know anymore if that is simply out of habit because i don't know anything else and i'm afraid to not believe in something yeah me too because like my grandmother said if you don't believe in something you'll fall for anything

oh that's interesting that's a good expression you know you gotta believe in something or you'll fall for anything you know so there's always the the part of me that's like, what is that something? I'm not sure anymore that it's something that can be quantified with language or, you know, I'm not sure. How long have you been married? It'll be five years this coming march a religious ceremony or it was just a civil ceremony it was a it was a legal ceremony yeah but it wasn't religious there were spiritual yeah you know i'm spiritual i really do believe in spirit i do believe in a higher calling a higher level of consciousness. You know, I do believe that, you know, God is the

word that we most know. You know, I do believe that energy is inside of all of us. Personally, how we access that, how we share that is our life's work. You know, that's my life's work is how I share that energy. You know, I try to be the change that I want to see. These teacups are everything, by the way. I'm just looking at them. I'm just looking at these teacups.

They're so very English. I love them. I know. I'm sure they are anthropology, but they feel very English. You've talked about your grandma, your mom. I want to know, this podcast we talk about food a bit. So I want to take it back to Pittsburgh. I want to hear about who was around that dinner table and who was cooking

and what are some of those nostalgic memories of smells on the table? Were they good cooks? Oh, those are my favorite memories. Really? Those are some of my favorite memories because Grandma and Aunt Dorothy, they had a big house. You know, we called Sundays after church, Sunday dinners, lots of Thanksgiving, you know, Christmas, Easter, you know, babies, weddings, funerals, everything happened at the house. The big house. At the big house.

And, you know, the reason why I know how to cook naturally is because they always wanted us around. And I'm the oldest of all of the cousins. You know, so there's about... How many are there? So my mother and then my two aunts, the twins, Karen and Sharon. So Karen has two kids. Sharon has four kids. And then my mom has two me and my sister um so I'm the oldest of that you know crew um I was always in the kitchen I was always watching

I was always underfoot as they would say you know anything anything and everything they cooked I was there and it was Aunt Dorothy doing the cooking and Dorothy and Grandma they were always doing your mom you said your mom was in a wheelchair well she didn't start in a wheelchair okay she is now she lives in a nursing home now it's a neurological condition that was you know medical malpractice it's been a degenerative it's been a degenerative thing she lives at the Actors Fund Nursing Home in Englewood New Jersey now she doesn't have any mobility but at this time when she when she was young she had a lot of mobility so it was everybody in the kitchen and we were all making anything and everything like there's no one specific thing it's like

whatever was being cooked whatever the menu was we were there sitting doing it all whether we were shelling peas or whether we were so was it a lot of meat um yeah yeah we did yes there was lamb there was roast there was chicken there was ham there was turkey there was everything it was it was an important factor yeah always me always meet. Not very healthy. Interesting. But what they did understand, and I say not very healthy in terms of like the vegetables were overcooked. Like it wasn't until I was grown that I realized that to like cook a vegetable like broccoli and garlic and olive oil on on top of the the stove like i've loved like i love vegetables you know but it wasn't until i i grew up that like i understood that the nutrition could be in the vegetable and not in the pot liquor

because where i came from you had to drink the pot liquor. Yeah, you're right. Because where I came from, you had to drink the pot liquor for the nourishment because they had cooked all the nourishment and they had boiled all the nourishment out of the actual vegetables. They were like the saddest little broccoli, like limp broccoli. Right, so the saute was not something

that I really understood until I was a grown-up. So, okay, so you're a good cook. Yes, I am a good cook. I believe you. I you're a good cook. Yes, I am a good cook. I believe you. I mean, you're good at everything. I'm a good cook. Not everything. What's your husband's favorite dish that you can pull out?

Interestingly enough, he loves my turkey burgers. Oh! I love a turkey. Mom does a good turkey. He loves my turkey burgers. So what's the essence of your turkey burger? Okay. So I cook a turkey burger. I will chop the essence of your turkey burger? Okay so I cook a turkey burger.

I will chop up an onion, green pepper, red pepper, garlic, saute it a little bit just to get a little fragrance. Yeah. Put it in. With the minced turkey? Uh with the turkey, turkey uh with the turkey uh yes ground ground turkey yes um and then i put um salt pepper by the way and he's choreographed this he's choreographing this whole recipe salt pepper and i use um a seasoning salt called lowry's I don't think you all know but I want it what is it Lowry's it's a family they have restaurants Lowry's seasoning salt white people in the south use it and black people all over America use it it's a southern like it's a it I think it's rooted in the south it might not be like they're but they actually have restaurants but Lowry's seasoning salt, ask anybody black from America,

Lowry's, excuse me, is the seasoning salt. Or if I don't do that, I have like a McCormick's, it's like a steak seasoning that I'll use. There's lots of different things in that I don't know. I like a seasoned moment. And then I'll do, like, a little bit of soy sauce. Like, a couple of, like, soy sauce. You know, because ground turkey can be a little bland. It's good for you, but it can be a little bland.

So you have to, like, you know. Shiz you up. I like a, you know, I like a seasoned meal, darlings. Seasoned seasoned meal darling I like season and so then I do the patties and then I do it generally either in a cast iron um pan just to get the you know I like a caramelized I like a char I don't like beige food you know sometimes I come over here to Anglin there's a lot of beige food over here. So why do you keep on coming back? Because we do love you. Yeah, I said, well, I love the culture. I love it.

There's a lot of good food here too. Where do you like it? But sometimes the beigeness of it, I'm like, hmm. You know, so I go to the places that I know. So where'd you go? I go to Soho House a lot because they got good food over there. They got good food over there. We just went there.

You know, they have the food I like. Me too like I like so house it's safe for me I like nando's I love a nando's moment that's charm honey I like a charm on all my food um so you know but I love cooking the pandemic really reconnected me to that so my husband and i rented uh started renting houses out in bellport long island which is about an hour and 15 minutes out of the city on the coast so it's about jews there that's where all the jew are, aren't they? Well, there's many Jews all around New York. So, yes. Just look in the oven. I went to a Passover thing in Long Island. That's why I know about it.

Just have a quick look in the oven. Is it good? Well, I've made for you. Well, I'm making something you probably know. But it's called a Dutch baby. I don't know a Dutch baby. Oh, wow. So, my daughter lives in...

It's a cross between a... It's a fucking turkey lean burger. It is a turkey burger, and it's not seasoned. It's a cross between a popover and a pancake. Okay. And you fill it with fruit. Amazing. Yeah.

I hope, you know, I hope... A popover and a pancake. Jessie, have you seen it? It looks fantastic, Mother. I'm proud of you. I've never seen it before. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you, mum. It looks great.

My sister's an actress in Los Angeles and she made this for brunch and she was like, you must give it to Billy. So there we go. Amazing. Because it looks great. I love that. So, you know, the pandemic. Yeah.

You know, I'm diabetic. Type two. Oh, shit. Is this terrible? No, I'm fine. I took my medication. Oh, fuck. I took my medication. It's all good.

I want the icing sugar. Please don't put the icing sugar. So type 2, does that mean that you have to inject? I don't. Oh, okay. Type 1 is the one where you have to be constantly on insulin. How can you be? How tiny you are.

Here we are are this is what i'm about to say it's genetic type 2 can also be genetic we've been sold a bill of goods over the last 30 years that type 2 diabetes is your fault no it's not always your fault it's not always based on what you ate it's a recent thing? Well, it's not recent anymore. It was 2007. Yeah, but it is quite, yeah, because my dad got diabetic when he was 15. He type 2. Yeah. And he just took tablets.

Yeah, but mine is hereditary. You know, so I'm that. I'm also HIV positive. And so I couldn't be in the epicenter of it because I have a preexisting condition that could have been vulnerable for me. So my husband and I, you know, my husband and all of his, um,

foresight was like, we have to get out of here. We have to get out of here. And so I, you know, I'm a little black kid from the ghetto. I was like, where are we going?

He's like, we can rent a house. We can rent a house. I was like, rent a house. You know, that's not something that I do. You know, i've gone to other people's rental homes yes and shit but i never thought i could rent it myself it's like oh wait yes we can rent a we can rent a house

let's go rent a house and so a friend of mine from high school um who's in the medical profession had moved his family out to bellport at the beginning of february because the medical profession knew it was coming anybody in the medical profession knew it was coming and knew that we were going to have to lock down they knew it they were saying it and i was like lock down i think we knew it it's just our government didn't know it's like no they knew they just weren't listening. So I called him. I said, do you think there would be any other rentals?

He said, yeah. Introduced me to the real estate agent. Within two hours, we had a house. So we went out to this house. We sat in this house for three months, never leaving except to go get groceries and come back. We fell in love with it. We ended up buying the house across the street so now you live in long island so now i live now we live on long so you were in the city before we were in manhattan yes and i've been in manhattan since 1991

so it was 30 years i'm good yeah i don't have to live in the middle no you know it's like I'm actually more I'm actually healthier I'm more present um I am um you know grounded in a different way you know and I needed space you know I need a I needed healing energy space we got a dog we got a little cockapoo in January What's the name? Bader Lola Majors BLM Even the dog is political bitches Yes

Come on Come on We gonna carry that dog To the White House baby Have you ever been to the White House? I have been to the White House With Barack? I have been to the White House. With Barack? I was there with President Obama.

And I was also there with Clinton a long time ago, yeah. Wow. So you're in Long Island, and it's a different kind of, you know, life. But Manhattan from 91, tell me some of the food spots that you used to go to or you still are dedicated to. me some of the food spots that you used to go to or you still are dedicated to you know what's interesting about this conversation is I love food I wouldn't say that I'm a foodie no I would say that I'm foodie adjacent a foodie what adjacent I like that. I'm foodie adjacent. So by that, I mean, if someone's a foodie and they take me somewhere, I'm like, let's go. And it's fun.

But I'm not seeking that out myself. I'm not. I don't know what the restaurants are. I don't know where to go. I think mum is foodie adjacent, actually. You know, I'm very much like, I can eat the same thing every day. But there must be spots that you feel, regardless of the food, that, you know, like you like Soho, I mean, you like the food at Soho, but, you know, you go for that atmosphere, that

coffee, that kind of, that chat. You know, there's lots of Mexicans. Are there good Mexicans in New York? Mexican in New York is really great. I went for a vegan one in New York that was like. Are you vegan? Am I fucked? No, I'm not.

I'm not. I can't do that. You know, Nobu, I love. You know, I've had an opportunity to go to places like people have taken me to places like Per Se, which I just thought was like. Oh, I don't know Per Se. You know, Per Se is like one of them Michelin five star where the meal is like $3,000 a person. You're like, I'm never spending that kind of money.

If somebody else is paying, I'll be there. You know, I've had those kinds of experiences. Do you drink wine? Not really a wine person. What do you like? I'm more of a scotch, tequila. Would you like a drop now, Billy? Champagne.

You got champagne? Have you got it in there? Oh yeah, she's always ready. Champagne, honey. I just had a horrible big birthday, Billy. What's horrible about it? What's the alternative, mummy? Wait till you're 17 and you'll say, I'm not

that sure about it this She called it her Soissant Nerf plus one party Because she couldn't She couldn't commit to saying Well I just turned 52 And I talk about it all the time Because I have fucking earned it Yes

Oh my goodness I love this I love this Jessie I'm so proud Why are you proud? I'm so glad That's what you call a That's proud. So we have a Dutch baby. That's what you call a Dutch baby.

My goodness. I knew we'd get along. Oh, of course. I knew we'd get on. Christ, this is even early for me. I knew we'd get on. Here in London. This is great, Mum.

It's great. The Dutch baby. I can vouch for the Dutch baby, Mum. Amazing. But let's talk about your music career. Yes. Children. Yes. Have you heard it?

Yes, it's great. Thank had jade uh-huh who was one of the writers on it jade was here at your at your very in your very chair on friday talking about it she was so thrilled that this is a writing cut that you're singing like i mean she's so thrilled and i can hear i mean eminike the voice and i can hear, I mean, Emanike, the voice, and I can hear you, like, the trills that you're doing on that song. I can hear Emanike in there too. Like, I mean, it's brilliant. Oh, thank you.

Like, how's it all going with doing music career again, second time round? It's my second time mainstream. Yeah, mainstream, okay. You know, my first album was an R&B album On A&M records That came out back in 1997 Right And um

As we were talking about earlier You know I was trying to be an R&B Recording artist in the 90's You know being black and gay was not a part of that So they put me out Um But I did it anyway y'all Being black and gay was not a part of that. So they put me out. But I did it anyway, y'all. I've done three albums since.

One was on my own. A live album at the corner of Broadway and Soul. Live from Joe's Pub. And then when I was doing Kinky Boots, Yes. I had my Barbra Streisand moment with a full orchestra and I did Billy's Back on Broadway. The dream. So I have the lush sort of Broadway album.

There's nothing quite like, I mean, it gives me goosebumps even thinking about it. I have a really, really lush Broadway album. And then after Kinky boots i went into the studio and did an album called the soul of richard rogers where i took all of richard rogers music the songs and i deconstructed them and rearranged them to sort of be in the r&b pop r, hip-hop, rap, gospel idioms. What I find interesting is that to be a standard, to be a classic, means that it stands the test of time.

And what's interesting about what we in America at least consider classic and standard and the things that can be reinterpreted you know they're generally reinterpreted under the jazz idiom because jazz is sanctioned by white people take an R&B you know take an R&B look at a Richard Rodgers song. Take a soul look at a Richard Rodgers song. Take a hip hop look at a Richard Rodgers song. A gospel interpretation.

And it literally goes unnoticed. It's like, I hear rock interpretations of favorite things. But nobody's playing my version that Cynthia Erivo is singing on my album. You know, it's like this, this out, it's this really beautiful, you know,

and I call it my Quincy Jones period because I took all the new Broadway, new, you know black broadway artists with voices and tones that are a departure from what we're used to hearing a broadway voice sound like we don't sound like bernadette peters we don't sound like patty lapone we don't sound like elaine page i love them all yes and there's another way yes and so this album is that and I knew that it was going to be the bridge back to my personal mainstream you know sensibility yeah what's your favorite musical ever oh I don't I don't really talk in those terms there are too many so which do you you know there are several dream girls gypsy a chorus line into the woods sunday in the park

with george it's not all of them west side story but like it's too much it's not fair to just to say one and i say this to people all the time it's just not fair because it's the body of the brilliance of that kind of work that has made me the human being that I am and the artist that I am and so I need all of them aggregated but which you know do you which song I was going to say the same would you like to perform which one's's your favourite to perform? I mean, like, where you feel like you just... Give your own interpretation, and it would be... Is that impossible? There's so many.

Just go listen to my Broadway album, and you'll see those are pretty much my favourites. They're pretty much my favourites. I didn't put Home on there. Why didn't you? I don't know. I don't know. Because that's like the starting point. It's's a little over it's a little over sung at

this point can i have a little more chad bogney so okay so food. Back to food, Belinda. We better ask your last supper. Last supper. My last supper. You're going on a desert island. My last supper would be a ribeye steak. Ooh. Ooh. Where from?

I don't know. Okay, don't care. Just a ribeye steak. How do you have it? Well done, medium rare. Medium. Okay. Grilled medium.

Seasoned properly. Just the greatest bit of marble. have it well done medium medium grilled medium seasoned properly just the greatest bit of marble oh yeah you know because i like my meat with marble where's that meat from in chicago you get in chicago all the time um doby or obi or kobe kobe yes so a ribeye steak piece of fried chicken i'm a walking stereotype sorry steak, piece of fried chicken. I'm a walking stereotype, sorry. A piece of fried chicken. Seasoned? Seasoned or deep? Always seasoned.

Absolutely. Deep fried? Deep fried. You're going for it. All the way. If it's my last meal, I would have a breast, a thigh, and a wing. Yeah. Then I'd have some collard greens okay collard

greens yeah collard greens look it up another green another stereotype cooked over like greens but like cooked and cooked to death yeah southern cooking soul food stereotype. Then I'd have my grandmother's macaroni and cheese. I don't like melted cheese. Yes. I don't like cheese in general. But my grandmother's macaroni and cheese, black people macaroni and cheese. It's different. It's different because it's baked like a cake.

And you have it crispy. It's coagulant. Yeah. So you cut it and it's not gooey. I don't like gooey. So I'd have that I'd have a piece of pound cake what's pound cake?

you know just regular no not sponge cake oh it's Madeira sponge cake is a different texture is it Madeira? I don't know what Madeira is is pound cake like it's like dense

it's like Madeira I think would you have it with custard? no custard don't like custard oh okay so it's a bit like melted cheese in the same pound cake It's like dense. It's like maduro, I think. Would you have it with custard? No custard. Don't like custard. Oh, okay. So it's a bit like melted cheese in your... Yes. In the same pan.

It's that consistency. No custard ever. But a pizza pound cake with like some fruit, you know, maybe a drizzle of chocolate, maybe a drizzle of raspberry coulis or something. You know, I'm a very simple man. Maybe some cinnamon ice cream. Oh, that's not so simple, Billy. I've never had a cinnamon ice cream.

Cinnamon ice cream is not that simple. But like, I love a cinnamon situation. You know. Cinnamon situation. I love a broccoli, a charred broccoli, a broccolini. Oh, yeah. You can get that in your house, can't you, babe? You know, you go out of the States and I don't find a whole lot of green vegetables.

Where, you know, it's like the green vegetables are hard to find sometimes. Y'all like a lot of carrots over here. She's like, all fucking sugar. Carrots are all sugar. I was like, where's the rocket where's the broccoli where's the where's the asparagus where's the you know like where's the brussels sprouts where's the brussels sprout on every bloody menu you're going to the wrong places okay i'm going to the wrong places because you know you get to some of these european countries i'm like where is the green

vegetable and they look at me like i'm crazy you need to go to greece well you don't get well no greece there mom greece you'll get hotter okay greece is greece is cool because the mediterranean diet yeah bodies are made in the kitchen that tomato and that cucumber i'm gonna say that that tomato and cucumber reach for that'm going to say that to myself. Every time I go and reach for that chocolate, bodies are made in the kitchen. Bodies are made in the kitchen. That doesn't mean you can't have the chocolate. That just means what time of day are you having it

and how much? Do you want to be my personal trainer, Billy? I can't be a trainer, but I can assist. Motivational speaker. I can assist and win. Excuse me, your body is spectacular. You're very sweet. I know, I mean, it's just, you've got a fantastic body.

But, Philly, I mean, I feel like we could have affirmations, the porterisms. Maybe this is a new venture that you should do. Well, let my first book come out. Yeah, fine. Let me make sure I'm, you know, I'm in a space where, like like my healing has taken hold 24-7. And then maybe I can come out to the world and be guru-like. So, okay, we've got memoir coming. Yeah.

We've got children out. I just finished directing my first feature film. And then that will come out. That will come out next summer, hopefully in theaters, if not streaming. And I'm working on all of the new music. I am directing a production of a musical called the life uh sy coleman was written back in the 90s um and i'm doing i'm doing that for a company in manhattan called encores and they you know this company revisits old musicals

and like sort of re you know introduces them to the world and so the hope is that you know, this company revisits old musicals and like sort of re, you know, introduces them to the world. And so the hope is that, you know, I rewrote this book. I rewrote the book of the musical. I'm re sort of conceptualizing it. And the hope is that, you know, it will be able to transfer and move to Broadway. That's my goal. That's me speaking. No, I'm not starring in it.

I'm directing. No, you'll start in Off-Broadway. Is do is that is that the way it works usually it's like fringe and then this is an off-broadway contract yeah okay only four performances you work on it for 10 days like it's very intense you work on it and then it's like a staged reading so you see it you know so I'm really it's a new book. It's new musical arrangements. Kasai Coleman is very big band oriented and specific. And this musical is about, you know, it's set in 80. It's a, you know, it's about nightlife.

It's about the, you know, pimps and prostitutes and, you know, drug addicts and the why of that and that underworld. And so I'm redoing the arrangements we're redoing the arrangements to sound more like 70s funk and what that world sounded like at the time so you know it's an experiment and hopefully you know I'll have my first musical that I directed on Broadway see that's how I want to go back to Broadway. Okay. Excuse me. The champagne has made me belch. I know. But I want to go back to Broadway as a creator.

Yeah. I want to go back to Broadway as the storyteller. Yeah, but you can't be behind the scenes. Not forever. No, okay. But sometimes. Okay, okay. You know, I want to go back to Broadway

with my very prestigious, you know, whether it's Hamlet, whether it's Time in a Bathen, whether it's Othello. Do you like Shakespeare? Yeah, I'm trained, bitch. Yes. The children need to understand it does not stop. It does not stop at Pose. You know, like all them white boys from over here get their Hamlet. I want my fucking Hamlet.

Kush Gumbo's Hamlet. Kush Gumbo's Hamlet. She had her Hamlet. It's time for me. You know, because that's the thing. And I say Hamlet metaphorically. Yes. I need my, whatever that is.

Yeah, you need your Hamlet. In terms of, I need my acting. Somehow. Broadway. I think you will get one. Somehow I think, yeah, you'll get it. You know what I mean? Everybody knows I sing.

I'll be in a musical. But the thing for me is that once you do Kinky Boots, once you have something that's written for you, it wasn't specifically written for me, but it was written for me. Right. Once it fits like a glove like that, once you do that, what else?

Yeah. I got a lot of attention for singing It fits like a glove like that. Once you do that, what else? I got a lot of attention for singing Everything's Coming Up Roses at the Tony Awards during the commercial break with James Corden. I got a huge standing ovation. It went around the world. All of a sudden, everybody wanted me to, you know, he should play Mama Rose. He should play Mame. It should be a gender. You know, and it's like, that's great. And thank you.

When are we going to tell a new story? I want to do something new. That's what's so great and inspiring about. Kinky Boots was new. Kinky Boots was new. That's what I'm saying, is that I did the new thing. So now, when you say go back to Broadway, I'm like, yeah,

I wish they would bring the whiz back. Well, they have brought the whiz back. They did it on television. They did it on television. And now I can say this too

because it hurt my feelings. Without me. How dare they? They did it on television without me. When? After I had won the Tony and the Grammy. What? Yes. How dare they? They did it on television without me. When? After I had won the Tony and the Grammy. What?

Yes. How dare they? Those motherfuckers did it without me. Do you have a burn book, Billy? No, I don't have a burn book. I don't have a burn book, but now I can say it out loud. Because the truth of it is, with as hurt as my feelings were, fast forward to Cinderella.

Now, yeah, how was that? Fast forward to playing the fairy godmother. How was it? Fast forward to being a 14-year-old child and wanting to be the male Whitney Houston and getting a call asking me to be the fairy godmother. Like, it's like, oh, that's why I wasn't in the Wiz. Yes, this was it. I'm supposed to be, I'm the new thing. It's specific.

I'm not just supposed to be going back and doing something that somebody else already did for the last 50 years. I'm creating new shit. And so I'm just trying to stay in that mindset. You know, I sold a television show, you know, that I wrote and created with my writing partner called Fruits of Thy Labor. We sold it to Warner Brothers and Peacock. It's about a black, you know, family, a black showbiz dynasty family, you know, in New York City. And it's like, interestingly enough, in 2021, we've never seen it. We've never seen the representation of that.

Hold on, but what was the one, the music one, that was on with Cookie? Yeah. What was that? Empire. Empire. And what was it based on? Based on crime.

Oh, yeah. Yes, okay, yes. My show, The Matriarch and the patriarch are based on aussie davis and ruby d it's a civil rights family ain't no fucking crime in this family they didn't rise to success because of crime no shade but there is that too yes it's not always associated with crime it's not always associated with drug yes it's not always associated with crime it's not always associated with drug dealers it's not always associated with that you know it's interesting the first note you know was like well is it like they're all so successful is that yeah full stop yeah before you Is that? Yeah. Full stop. Yeah. Before you fucking continue.

Yeah. I will never have this conversation again. If you really think that there's a black family who can't be as successful as this, then you don't deserve this show. I can't do this anymore. I, who come from first generation post-civil rights movement, a religious family, I never had no crime in my family. We're all different things. As people of color, we're all different things.

And I'm so excited to be a representative of... Are you going to star in that? No, I'm not starring in it, honey. I'm looking for mailbox money. Did I say that out loud? I'm looking for my mailbox money, bitch. I consult and then the shit comes in the mailbox. I learned how to white people do it, honey.

I'm doing it like y'all. Shit. Just say they made a remake of Bodyguard and you played the Whitney person. I wouldn't do that. Who would be the Bodyguard? Oh, good question, Mother. Because I can see you as the Whitney singing.

Billy's eyes have lit up. So who is going to lift you off the floor and hold you tight and make you feel safe? And he's got to be gorgeous. Let's all throw in some suggestions. Okay. Who would I have? I mean, if Timothee Chalamet could lift a fucking thing, I'd love him, but I mean, I'd flatten him.

I'd flatten him. Who needs a man? I need a grown man. I don't need no children. Timothee Chalamet. He's four years old Please He's gorgeous Nobody cares

That's not true A lot of people care My grown ass black faggot ass Does not care about a 17 year old I know who I'd have Who? Grown Milo what's his face-Face from This Is Us. Vitamigna.

Oh! He's cute. I love him. He's cute. I loved him in Gilmore Girls. This Is Us. And I love him in This Is Us. He would be cute.

Who would you have? Well, I'd have the one from Offspring, Dr. Patrick Weed. Oh, did you ever watch Offspring? It's an Australian. Anyway, Dr. Patrick Weed's very lovely. We're trying to get him. Cute. Amazing.

Okay, who would you have? You know, I think I would need to go like Old school classic Like modern classic Like Brad Pitt Yeah But it's old school modern classic Because of the show

No, he's too old No, what I'm saying is That's why I say modern classic because the generation right after him fine which is you know clooney oh my god yeah you know brad pitt i would even you know i'm gonna say leonardo dicaprio has grown up to be a very... Yeah, he's a thoughtful man. It was going to go one way or the other, wasn't it? We weren't sure whether it was going to be...

You know, Denzel is too old. Oh, I don't know. Idris! Idris! We've got it! We've got it! Idris! You've got the job, Idris!

Idris! You've got it. It's me. You've got the job, bitch. It's me. It's me. It's me. Wow. Billy Porter. Wow. I'm going to need to lie down, darling. I'm going to need to get the book of Billy Porter Because I need a few more lessons To be learning Jesus

Who needs a coffee when you've got Billy Porter in your house for precky Billy Porter That was everything that I could have wanted And more Mum, first experience with Billy Porter Seeing as you haven't seen Pose You've maybe seen Billy on the red carpet I feel like he's he's absolutely like a thunderbolt and I've never seen someone who's so heartily drank champagne my kind of person your your kind of person he outdid me bitch

fuck me Billy Porter I love you I can't wait to see the film I can't you. I can't wait to see the film. I can't wait to read the book. Dynamite. He's just dynamite. Children's out. I love the words. Got to let the children know what time it is. Yeah, well, we definitely...

Yeah. He was fabulous. Just fabulous. This Dutch baby thing is brilliant. Yeah. Anybody who's having somebody around for brunch or just wants to make it on their own. You can't serve with bacon yes i i would have appreciated that i think well i mean you never had bacon in the house so never this is a really good recipe yeah i am slightly exhausted

but also invigorated by that conversation ready for a lie down i loved loved having Billy in the room. We've tried to have this for so many years so finally we got to chat. He's absolutely fab. And Billy can come back whenever. Whenever he wants.

I think Billy swears more than me. He does. With such intention as well. Intent like fuck you. Now people don't know that when I

when he was saying those fuck you's he was looking me directly in my eyes and pointing at me. It was very intense fuck yous, he was looking me directly in my eyes and pointing at me. It was very intense, but I felt like I was starring in something with him and I kind of rose to the occasions

by holding the gaze. It was quite terrifying at some points. He's a force of nature. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week