Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S12 Ep 8: Max Martin

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

If you don’t know who Max Martin is - well, you should - and you will quickly realise that you do in fact know most of his chart topping songs.  We invite the enigmatic Swedish songwriter over to mum's for his first ever podcast. We talk about getting ready for his new musical '& Juliet' to finally get back to the West End, his love for Kiss the band, life in Los Angeles and growing up outside the cow border. All whilst mum offers up salmon and pickled beetroot eggs. Thank you for coming over Max x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with mum at her house. It's an autumnal morning. Yes darling. Doing brunch. A bit late lunch rather than, late brunch really. Early lunch. A light early lunch. And we've got a person that I've never been in the room with. You wish you had. Well, I mean, every singer, I think, is intrigued by this person. So the way that I get to go in the room with Max Martin is if I invite him round to my mum's house in Clapham for some salmon. Max Martin is the third most successful songwriter in the world ever under John Lennon and Paul McCartney.

I'm going to sing some songs to you. Go on. Quit playing games with my heart. That was a bit out of tune. Who's that? Britney Go on. Quit playing games with my heart. That was a bit out of tune. Who's that? Britney? No.

Who? Backstreet Boys. So he's been going a long time. And I'm stronger. Wow, wow. I really need to practice the old scales. Britney. I know one.

What? I can't feel my face for life. Is it that one? Yes. Yes. Also, mum, a little bit of trivia for people that may not know that Max Martin penned five bad boys that are ready to rock you, blow your mind so you got to get into five. What you waiting for?

If you want it, three, two, one, let's do it. Who sings that? Who sings that, darling? Left wing. Five. Oh, from way back. Yeah. He's been going from way back. Yeah. He's been going for a while.

So what's his latest hits? Oh, Blinding Lights, The Weeknd. So he's written a lot of Weeknd stuff. Yeah. I Kissed a Girl. Worked with our mate Benny. Benny loves him, says he's his boy. He doesn't sound like a boy, darling.

How old do you think he is? A boy, B-O-I. Okay. He's 50. Oh, right. He's not a boy. He's not a boy, darling. How old do you think he is? A boy, B-O-I. Okay. He's 50. Oh, right. He's not a boy. He's not a boy, not yet. That's another song of his, but anyway.

Anyway, he's basically written a lot of good songs. Shake It Off, Taylor, Ed Sheeran. I thought Taylor only wrote all her own songs. Anyway, basically, you go in with Max Martin, you're coming out with a banger. Why haven't you been in with him? Mum, it's a bit fortnought. Like, you can't get to Max Martin.

Schmooze today. He's a bit like a head chef. Is that why we've got him on? My management would say, yes, I'm more interested in his new musical that he's done called Anne Juliet, which incorporates all his hits within the story of Romeo and Juliet. I know what it's about, darling. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Do you want to just's about, darling. Okay. Sorry.

Yeah. Do you want to just take a rest whilst you're... Sorry. So, you know, if Max Martin wasn't enough for you, we've got another announcement. I'm so excited. We are... Across the pond.

We are doing our first live shows in the States. Lenny is going to Hollywood. Darling, it's where I belong. I think it is. We're doing a four-night residency at the Masonic Lodge at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. People like Arctic Monkeys play there, Mum. It's quite lovely, isn't it? Am I going there because I'm a bit old?

Mum, I'm taking you to the cemetery and leaving you there. No, we are doing live shows. We are so excited and we can't wait to see you. Tickets are on sale this Friday, the 3rd of December at 9am Pacific time. It's four nights from the 10th to the 13th of April. Don't miss out. I think they're quite intimate shows. You snooze, you lose.

It's Lenny and Jessie going to Hollywood hollywood baby so what have you made mom i've done poached salmon yeah i've done pink eggs pray do tell why they're pickled in beetroot and vinegar and they're pink no shit sherlock jesus and they look very nice and i've done why have you done this because who have you just been with for the last week? So I've been with your sister. You look really pale, Mum. You must go on holiday again. I think I need a booster.

I've been with your sister in the Bahamas because that's the only place we could meet. Oh, you poor thing. Yeah, it was tough. And she told me that she made a light lunch for someone. She made poached salmon with pink eggs and a herb salad, and that's exactly what I've done. How was the food in Bahamas?

Awful. Oh, terrible. So you haven't brought anything back for us to try on the podcast? No. I tried to get you some guava jam. Everywhere was shut, Jess. It was out of season. Oh. So all the places that we wanted to go to, you know Hannah's very good at researching places that we should go to, couldn't go.

Shut. Oh. I don't know why they call it out of season because I can tell you if Blackpool can keep going with the illuminations in October and it's minus two and it's raining and the Bahamas is 30 degrees with the odd cloud. I don't know why they don't keep going. with the odd cloud. I don't know why they don't keep going. So, I'm very intrigued about how, you know, they talk about the formula with how pop formula is applied and it's like the Swedes are amazing at pop music.

And I wonder whether he's a good chef and whether he applies the same formula too. God, does he cook? I don't know. Shit. I'm interested whether there is this correlation between him in the kitchen with how he writes a song. Maybe that's me just scraping the barrel. I don't know.

But yeah, Max Martin coming up on Table Manor. Do you know, I had a Swedish boyfriend once. Well, I didn't have a Swedish boyfriend. I had a Swedish love affair with a man called Bjorn Schiffs, who is quite famous in Sweden, I understand. He's very famous in Sweden. Who is he? I met him in Ibiza and he asked me to move to Sweden to live with him.

I was gorgeous then with long hair, longer than yours. Wow. And why didn't you go? I was bloody 17. My mother and father would have had a nervous breakdown. I think I was about 23, 24. What does he do? He was beautiful. What did he do? He's bloody 17. My mother and father would have had a nervous breakdown. I think I was about 23, 24. What does he do? He was beautiful. He's a singer. Oh!

He was so gorgeous. And he's also the guy who was the first Swede to have a number one on the Billboard Hot 100 list in America. Well, that's a nice segue, Max. Max Martin. Yes. You're here doing your first podcast. My very first. We've already offered you

wine. It is just past 12. Yeah. We haven't got Earl Grey for you. I'm sorry. So you've got a black tea. 12 is in noon. Noon. Yes. Sundown somewhere. Cocktail time somewhere. Anyway, it's a pleasure to have you in Clapham before you get on a plane somewhere. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me. I mean, for me to be meeting you in my mother's kitchen, there's no musical instruments around. Like, this is a surreal way to meet Max Martin, one of the greatest songwriters of our time. But I'm very happy.

I've heard a lot of myths around that. You know, you hear about Max Martin. But I did text my two mates. I text two mates that work with you. And I was like, we've got Max Martin doing the podcast. And he was like, Benny Blanco says hi. Thank you. You're his boy.

And you work together a lot. He's my boy. And he loves you. And yeah. And so, and I, this is just very surreal. But I really, it's really nice to have you. Now, I mean, we, this is the podcast that we, we talk about food a lot. We talk about family.

Can you, we'll get onto music stuff, maybe, if we've got time. Mum's already telling you about Swedish boyfriends. Famous. Famous Swedish. See, I just want you to be impressed. I was. I am very impressed. I knew you would be.

My mother loved him. Handsome guy, you know? Yes, handsome. Maybe he'll remember. Maybe he'll listen to this because he's a fan of Max. We met in Ibiza. And he doesn't remember that he's a fan of you, too. Yeah.

It was a brief three-day romance. Why were you in Ibiza? Were you in Ibiza with Mormor and Gaga? No, with a friend called Ruth. It was nice. I love Ibiza. Love it. Do you spend half your time in Sweden

and half your time in LA? Actually, before this happened, I'm not going to say the name of it. I spent most of my time in LA these past 10 years, I would say. Do you like it? Los Angeles? Yeah. I do. If you have a, how do I say it? I got out there when I was kind of a grown up and had a family and could sort of put food on the table and all that stuff and had a purpose. I don't envy really young people coming out there looking for their dream. That seems really hard. I didn't have to do that. And, you know, we had a lot of friends there, like a lot of Swedes. So it was kind of easy for us to get a life there. Why were the Swedes already there?

Were they all in music? Were they like your music mates? Yeah, a lot of Swedes in music over there. And there's a lot of Swedes in LA in general. We even played, have you heard about floorball? No. It's called innebandy in Swedish. Is it a Swedish thing? It's a sport.

It's indoor hockey with a little ball. So I think it's big in like Sweden, Finland and Switzerland, but it's huge in Sweden. But we were able to get a team together so we could play twice a week. And do you play against Americans? They don't know what that is they have no idea what they offer it you know we've had a few artists play like Harry was there mr. Styles played with us and it was like we then it was obviously a celebrity floorball right okay yeah which was exciting he was actually really good he's just good at everything isn't he I know charming handsome great singer I know young Ohming, handsome, great singer. I know.

Young. Oh, young. I hate those people. The best flirt in the world, Harry Styles. I know. He'd flirt with a wall and he'd, yeah, he's amazing. He got me, so yeah. I didn't know.

Did you, so you worked with him? We're, yeah. Well, not as in the studio work with him, but we listened to music together. He would play him his record, and I would tell him what I thought, and he would ignore it and be very successful. Well, okay, so let's take it back to Sweden. You grew up in Sweden. Yes.

What was around the dinner table? Who was cooking the meals? Actually, my dad did most of the cooking uh which was weird at the time this is so this is like early 70s um 50 years old you know um a baby let me tell you thank you no but it was very i would say it was traditional you know kind of meat and potato kind of stuff but good home cooked um he would make bread and yeah it was so you know kind of meat and potato kind of stuff but good home cooked um he would make bread and yeah it was so which town so here's the thing if you would ask me where i'm from i would say i'm from stockholm yeah if a stockholm like a native stockholm person would

ask me they wouldn't think i was from stockholm i'm sort of farm... Suburbs? Well, sort of farm Stockholmer, if that makes any sense. There's a thing in Sweden where you're either inside the cow border or outside the cow border. Okay. I was definitely outside the cow border. Was your dad a farmer then? My dad was a cop. A policeman? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. In Stockholm? In Stockholm, yes. So your dad was a cop, and did your mom work? Yeah. In Stockholm? In Stockholm, yes. So, so your dad was a cop and did your mom work? Yeah, she was a teacher. So, I mean, you've probably been asked this so many times, but actually you haven't done that many interviews. So now I'm going to have to ask you. Fire away.

Um, so who was musical in your family? Um, well, I thought about this cause it wasn't like none of my relatives were musicians or anything like that but we did have a piano in the house um and my mother was in like a choir but it wasn't like let me teach you about anything like that. None of that. But I found the piano and started just playing away on it. How old were you? I don't know, nine, maybe. Eight, nine, ten, something like that. And then I found KISS, the band.

Yeah. And that became my life. My older brother was totally into them and all the posters. And if you don't know KISS, but it was all about the merchandise. And I fell in love with that. So then sort of the dream of becoming a rock star, I guess, evolved in my 10 year old brain. So that kind of led into, you know, practicing, getting into bands and all of that stuff. So you played in bands first?

Yeah. So this whole thing started with the dream of being a rock star but now you're kind of i think you're a rock star you do i do but the music that you put out i mean it's it's fantastic it's not necessarily kiss or it's like the greatest pop music no but what it has well thank you for saying that first of all all. But it has what Kiss sort of, for some reason, I love the sort of the worldwide appeal of them, that the sort of the larger than life part of their sort of mystery. So I think you can see they're definitely influenced me in that way

to write choruses that everyone can sort of sing along to and all that stuff definitely comes from that time. What was the name of your band which band okay all right the first one the first band was called today today yeah not tonight not today it's like very current very current i know i know i know so what was the second band? Why did you break up? Did the big band break up? So the Today thing,

there was one cool element to it, we thought, was that we wrote two with a number two. I mean, that was pretty, like, you were ahead of the game. That's quite good. Like Prince used to do it. I had no idea who Prince was at the time, but yeah. So my next band, this band was out and beyond the cow border sort of farmer stockholm land that's a good band name beyond the cow beyond wow i don't know maybe it's a good country song i don't know i wonder how it sounds in swedish i'll give you

that one matt okay so hold on but is it amazing beyond the cow border or inside the cow border what's the angle of the song? I think Beyond the Cow Border. The country song is definitely Beyond. I think, yeah, and I think it's a positive outlook. If it's Pet Shop Boys, it might be inside. I like this. Yes, very good, very good. Okay.

We're just developing a new idea. Maybe we're going to set up a band in a bit. How much time we got? Listen, until you, I'll get on the plane with you, babe. Okay. So yeah, second band. So then a friend, you know, who was in the city heard about, and I was about 15 or 16 at the time.

And I think I was sort of semi good for my age, if I was told. Yeah. And then I got a chance to, they were like, oh, this, you know, Stockholm band is looking for a singer. So I went to audition, I guess. oh, this Stockholm band is looking for a singer. So I went to audition, I guess. And I got that job, although there was no money involved,

but it was kind of a job. And that band was called It's Alive. A little better. And then I stayed with them for a long time. I was until actually the band It's Alive got signed to a record label finally after. So I started at 16. So when I was like 22 or 21 or 22, we got signed to this label called Shearon Records. That was out of the Shearon Studios, where then I met my mentor, Dennis Pop, who was working, who was a pop producer,

Then I met my mentor, Dennis Pop, who was a pop producer who did like Ace of Base and Dr. Albin and all these like 90s sort of pop. He was like a big deal back then. So that's when I fell in love with studio work because I got to use their studio and stuff. And then I quit the band and started working with him. You have children. I do. How many do you have? I'm a one hit wonder wonder I have one daughter is she

does she think you're cool does she is she interested in music are you kind of like please don't go into music or are you quite enthusiastic about the idea of her because I've I feel like I've been a bit pushy I've got three kids and my eldest is five and I've made her start playing the piano well I didn't make her she's enjoying it I think from like the age of four she started I wonder if she would say the same in a separate room she her teacher's really cool okay and she really likes it but uh I know I'm being slightly pushy but it's more because I would I wished I had an instrument I'm kind of basically projecting all my ambitions I should have done an instrument. I'm kind of basically projecting all my ambitions that I should have done an instrument.

Is your daughter interested in what you do? Well, it's kind of annoying with her because she is, I mean, she grew up in the business. She's been around in her whole life. So she's born in LA? No, she's born in Sweden, but I was already sort of going. She's 20 now. But, you know, I had been doing it for maybe,

when she was born, know i had been doing it for maybe when she was born i'd already been doing it for almost 10 years uh producing and all that so the annoying part of it is that she has a great ear she's super musical she can sing she has a great voice and all stuff but she she's also into fashion so she's like torn with these between these two things. She now works for a magazine, like a big, what do you call it, fashion thing. And as their music expert, I guess it's called. So she's... Yeah, but to me it's like, again, going back to what you were saying,

I meet so many people like, I wish I knew how to play an instrument. I think you're actually doing the right thing to kind of semi-force it because you will have so much fun with it whether it's you know professional or not it's always it's a good it's a gift see do you think i wasn't forceful enough about i think you got me the wrong piano teacher that stunk of tuna mayonnaise and like it's just like he just he was an alcoholic and he wasn't the greatest most inspiring teacher he was kind though he was drunk okay i he wasn't the greatest, most inspiring teacher. He was kind, though.

He was drunk. Okay. I didn't notice that. Not all people are kind when they're drunk. I thought that he was just elderly. At least you found a nice drunk. Yeah, he was kind. He also went to chapels.

Chapels is quite famous in London. They buy sheet music. Of course, no one needs that anymore, I suppose. Do people use sheet music anymore i don't know i i don't know i don't know but if you write a song and then you publish the music you've got to write the music down surely i guess or you just put it on spotify i don't know okay so how do you get your publishing deals we sound like finisterre i don don't know. Hold on a minute. So I want to do a cover of The Weeknd. Right.

They go on YouTube. No. And I want the music to get backing. I'd love to see you do a cover of The Weeknd. I can't feel my face. How would you do it, though? Well, no. Would you be true to the original?

Or would you like make it your own thing? Would you do your own interpretation, Mum? No, I'm not. The Abita version. But how would someone backing me know how to do the music? Would they just hear it? Some people do it by ear. So everyone does it by ear.

No one writes sheet music anymore. Well, it depends because the stuff that I'm involved with is usually pretty simple and won't take much, to be honest. If you were to do like an ABBA song, for instance, I think you might need some help. Is their music very complicated well i think abba they did something amazing well they're still doing it from what i'm told um is that they've they had this if here's the thing if you i've been to like new year's eve

parties and they're like oh someone's playing you know a lot of my friends are musicians and we're like oh let's sing a Naba song. And someone sits down at the piano like, all right, let's play Happy New Year. And you start playing it thinking you know it because it's simple, right? We all know it. But then once you start like trying to play it on the piano, it's like, oh, wait, hold on. And it takes like 45 minutes and everyone's tired. Stop singing. Yeah, because it's really, they had this, my point is that they had this amazing ability

to make something kind of complex, very user-friendly for us, the common man, so to speak. To listen to. Yeah, to listen to. It's actually pretty complex. How interesting. Now, this is a food podcast amongst other things, but I like the idea that the kind of Max Martin

ensemble of people that work with you, you're like the head that the kind of max martin ensemble of people that work with you you're like the head chef you can be an executive producer you're the head chef you've got your sous chefs sometimes people aren't going to taste the max martin maybe they won't taste your meal okay maybe this isn't a great no no go ahead but you know what i mean there's a kind of some people will work with max martin but they won't necessarily work with you directly or will they or will you always sprinkle a little max martin on everything that happens in your so people have a tendency of thinking just because it's done sort of in the premises that that it's made by me and by the way a lot of times they oh, it's just made just only by him. Yeah.

Which is, and I, you know, I try to make sure that's not the case, but it seems to be if there's a name that they recognize and even if it's just on the door, they'd be like, oh yeah, that guy wrote everything. So it's, I think it's more of other people's perception of that. If I'm involved, I'm involved. You know what I'm saying? It's more the business.

It's kind of dumb like that. The same way if you have a big director or someone attached to a movie, that will be the first name they project made by so-and-so. And then if you read the fine print, it's like, well, actually the person just made them coffee or whatever you know i i mean you know we do these podcasts and we have lunch or breakfast or dinner with people and they're strangers a lot of the time and it's you know it's like a first date you know you never know you don't know if it's going to work you don't know if you're going to get on now one of my i've done many first dates with songwriters too

sometimes they can be horrendous and you i just order food the whole day and then that's the distraction sometimes they are the most magical thing in the world and you're like the chemistry is amazing everything works i guess how do you have any like really good icebreakers with how you work with people? Because I know Benny just talks about penises and farts. Right. Pooing. Yeah, pooing, penis and farts.

So you do know Benny? I mean, he's like... I know him well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, and me and him... I'm tired. He's always bloody tired, isn't he, when he has to work?

I'm tired. It's like, he's just about... Why is he always tired? He's not fucking tired. He just doesn't want to bloody do the songwriting for that day he wants to poop he does like food he loves food and I think that's how me and him actually

got on we're better at eating food together than making music together and that works but like are there any icebreakers that you have and does it involve food because for us you know food has become this kind of disarming thing right icebreak, you know, food has become this kind of disarming thing.

Right. Icebreakers. You know, that's a tough one because I feel like maybe one of the icebreakers is that I've done it for a long time. So maybe I'm that person in the room. I mean, I'm always these days the oldest guy in the room, right? Do you like that? I don't think about it so much, but I think coming in, having done it for a long time, sometime can be, you know,

I feel like that could be an icebreaker in itself. Because you are nervous. A lot of people that I, you know, especially younger artists, they're nervous. And if there's this one sort of, don't know guy that comes in and like hey done it a few you know done a few times i think that could be a relaxing thing maybe i don't know now i'm sort of reviewing myself but it's hard but do you work with bands as well as just individual singers yeah yeah i did i just did the well i just did we just did uh an album for co-play i love that new song oh you, you do? Higher Power. It's really good.

You did Higher Power? It's very catchy. Very good. I really liked it. Well, I've got to ask this. Who's your favourite people to work with? Are you supposed to ask that? I don't know. I don't care. You can tell me and we don't have to list in. I won't name you any names because I love

all my children equally. I can tell you this i do love work with artists who comes in have and where they have a vision okay i don't like work with people so they know who they are well yeah and like that you know because it it evolved right when i started i i used to write a lot of lyrics and stuff when i was in my 20s if i'm working with ariana grande it's going to be weird if I'm like, you know what, you should be saying this, you 20-something girl that I have no idea.

You know what I mean? That doesn't work. You have to adapt with the times in that sense. And maybe I will help with other things like melody or production or, you know. I think if anyone is going to be set in front of me, don't say, I'll do anything you want me to do i can do anything that's that won't work yeah well it's they've got to have some sense of

direction yeah some kind of it doesn't i mean it doesn't have to be like oh i need exactly this but they need to have some kind of um their artist that's i i guess what i'm saying is that i'm looking for artistry that you have some kind of vision what you want to do, that you have some kind of idea of what you are as a person and an artist. I think that goes a long way. And a lot of the people, most people I work with these days have that. Like, I mean, The Weeknd, I want to put on a red suit. His whole visual and all his ideas are amazing which makes

it more artistic and fun to me yeah I've got to ask you why are you in London I'm here to I'm here to we you, why are you in London? I'm here to, you know, we put together this musical called Anne Juliet. I know, I've been dying to see it. You haven't seen it. Not yet. We're going for a... It's been open for two days. We're going, but no, I'm dying to see it.

I thought I'd heard about... It's been in the works for a while. It's been in works for a while, so I think you were going to open and then it didn't open because of COVID. We did open in November before the pandemic. Fuck, I said it. The thing that happened. And then obviously we had to shut down after like four months. And now I came back to see it come alive again.

It was amazing. Amazing. We're going, aren't we? Yeah. And now I came back to see it come alive again. It was amazing. Amazing. We're going, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. But so these are for people that don't know about Ann Juliet. Will you explain it? It's your songs.

Some of your most beloved songs. Well, so this is the thing that we've been working on for like, I don't know, eight years or something. Actually, my wife came up with the idea of of making a musical um and then and i was like yeah that's cool you know it's it's cool idea we saw mamma mia you know it's it's a good idea to kind of take it to the its original i don't know there's something about the theater that's like i feel like it's the original kind of medium of entertainment for some reason. Maybe that, I don't know. I feel that way. And it's also so far away from the glam and this and that, that sort of you associate with pop music, if you know what I'm saying.

But I was very nervous about it because I have, since I am a songwriter, I also have a lot of self-hate and being like insecure. And yeah, ask anyone, maybe not Benny, Since I am a songwriter, I also have a lot of self-hate and being insecure. Ask anyone. Maybe not Benny. But most people have... Not Benny. So my point was like, all right, if we're doing this, we need to find a story that's the star of the show.

And then hopefully my music can be the sort of the icing on the cake to bring it back to food I guess so that took a long time to just find the story and once we found David Westreid who wrote the story he was kind of

given the whole catalogue of songs and I said you try to piece this together if you can and uh and he did a brilliant job doing that it he actually made it when I saw it the first time that the first pitch I was like it felt like these songs were written for the show that's amazing um which was kind of it's kind of Romeo and Juliet it's a a twist. It's Romeo and Juliet with a twist. I hope it's not got a sad ending. It does not have a sad ending.

Good. I think you'll walk away feeling good. It's a nice two hours of, yeah, forget the world. So when are they making the film version? We're working on that, actually. It's in the talks. Who's going to star? You should have a few cameos as well.

Yeah, exactly. I don't know yet. I do know something, but I do not know if I can talk about it. But it's exciting. Are you hungry? Yeah. Would you eat something? I would definitely eat something.

Shall I get something ready? Yes, please, Mum. Whilst Mum gets lunch on the go, I think it's all kind of prepared. You're going on a plane later. Mm-hmm. Like plane food? Do you bring your own? I don't bring my own.

No. Today's like, it's back to Sweden and it's sort of after lunch. So don't have to i don't worry so much about food on this flight i'm going to eat when i get to back to stockholm and where will you eat when you get to stockholm is there one place that you're like i need to i haven't been there for a while i mean when was the last time you went to stockholm so yeah well i came to london from stockholm okay but i'm really lucky because where i live across the street there's this uh amazing uh little boutique hotel called at hem and they are kind enough to you know since we're neighbors we kind of got to know them so we get to go there and eat so i'm actually going

there tonight to eat dinner lovely yeah and it's amazing and are you is your wife with you now oh that's nice you'll go for a little date. You'll eat. What kind of food will you eat? I mean, tell me about Swedish. I've been there a couple of times. There's that really nice venue that's in Bern. Yeah, Berns. I like that.

Stay in the hotel. What was it when you were there? Because I haven't been there many, but it was like a mixed Asian thing or something there? Yeah, I don't really remember the food being... It was more the atmosphere of the place that I loved. Yeah, it's cool. And the venue was kind of really gilded, like gold and all that.

But I can't remember the food. I'm sure the food was really nice. No, I haven't been there. There's quite a lot of mixed fusion, like Asian food. I feel like there's lots of sushi everywhere in Stockholm. Yeah, there is. I guess they like fish well Swedes travel

a lot so there's a lot of different kinds of food we're missing I love coming to London to have Indian food

we don't really have a great Indian in Stockholm where do you have it when you're here I go to Tamarind Kitchen it's called

where's that I've not heard of Tamarind Kitchen I don't think it's one of those like I'm not sure it's like no but it's good to know but it's that? I've not heard of Tamarin Kitchen. I don't think it's one of those, like, I'm not sure it's like... No, but it's good to know. But it's actually amazing.

Tamarin Kitchen? Yeah. We're like, they know us there now, kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, Swedish food. So what do you want to know about Swedish food? I want to know, like, you know, what are you going to order tonight? Is there something that you yearn for when you're in Los Angeles? You've not been to return to Stockholm for long.

Are you yearning for meatballs? Right. Yeah. I could, yeah. Like, I would say... Do the IKEA ones serve a purpose? I don't think I've ever had IKEA meatballs, to be honest. Thanks.

I know. But it's like... With the gravy, the creamy gravy. Do you like it? I love it. With the, what's it, the berries on the side. Lingonberries, yeah. I love it.

I go to IKEA for the catering. Oh, wow. They're very good. They're good to have in your freezer. In fact, I should get some, actually. My kids would probably like this. I think they might contain gluten, actually. Oh, yes.

So I think maybe that's why I missed out. Okay, yeah. And they have hot dogs for, like, nothing. Yeah, love it. Yeah. But that also contains bread. Yeah, how long have you been gluten-free for? Since, oh, my God, 2005, 2006, maybe?

A while while then. Yeah. It's probably got easier to eat gluten-free now, right? No, it's not a problem. I can't complain. And I'm not like celiac. I'm sort of intolerant. So if I happen to make a mistake, it's like the end of the world for me.

But yeah. And stone fruits, is that the end of the world for you? I don't know. That affects my throat oh right so i tend to not do that yeah of course so i don't really that that i'm that one i'm more careful about because it's like i get i sound like i could sing anaphylactic is it please forgive me it gets that kind of voice sorry brian could be quite good on some i mean maybe you should do a stone fruit like anthem yeah or like it's a heartache yeah but no if it's painful that mom this this smell reminds me

of when mom mom used to no she's i think she's like i think she's all right okay mom this smell of this fish reminds me of like this was like your 90s go-to, poached salmon. No, I love it. It's what mum used to do for big, like, functions. Right. And friends would come over and I just remember this smell. It's like, what is it, mum? Bay leaves. Bay leaves.

Bay leaves and lemon. Anyway, would you like some herb salad? I would love some herb salad. So, what would your last supper be? What would it consist of? You've got a starter, main, dessert, drink of choice. Okay. Starter, I would probably have some kind of ceviche, I think. Okay. From anywhere that you've had it that, you know... Wow! You're putting me on the spot. I don't know if you know, but I go places to eat.

You're not a cook? No, but I love food. Okay. So you don't cook, but you love to eat out. Yeah. I help. That's great. Is that the sous chef, I guess? Yeah. I guess you would be the sous chef or the kitchen porter. Yeah, maybe not. Sous chef is too high of a rank for me. Maybe like the...

You're on the pass, maybe? The person that doesn't matter in the kitchen that sort of chops the onion. Okay. And it takes a little too long to do it. Okay. That's me. Right. But I love helping out, but I'm not creative with food. But I love

food. Do you want some wine? Are you guys drinking wine? Yeah. I feel like you want to, and I want to, if you want to. I'm not going to. I'll have a glass of wine. Listen. We are down. Okay. Mum has it ready, chilled. She just needed you to say yes.

All right. So I'm the enabler right now? Yeah. Exactly. Oh, sans serre. Nice. So, okay, so you like ceviche. Is there a place that you go for this ceviche? There's plenty of places I'm sure you've been. Oh, my God, that's really hard. That's like what kind of guitar sound do you like? Oh, come on, Max. It's food, it's grub.

Okay. It doesn't have to be... I mean, you know what? I went to the Chilton Firehouse the other day. They had a great ceviche. They've got a new menu, actually, and it's apparently really amazing. It's really, really good. They did good. So you had a good ceviche there. Great. Now, are we on to mains? I think we're on to mains. I think we're now on to home-cooked.

So who's home cooked? Meaning, I think the main is going to be... I have this weird obsession with pork. There's this Swedish dish which is pan-fried pork with potatoes and a creamy onion sauce. What's the name of it? Flesk with Lök Sauce. It's pork with onion sauce. And you haven't tried to make this? Who makes it very well? Actually, my mother-in-law is amazing at it, and I think she would have to make it. Do you want to try it first? I'm trying to be all fancy here.

It's great. Yeah, it's great? I love Sancerre. Mum, this is del trying to be all fancy here. It's great. Yeah, it's great? I love Sancerre. Yeah. Mum, this is delish. Thank you. Thanks. That's great. The pink pickled eggs are very cute. I like them. They're pickled with beetroot and mustard seeds.

Really nice. Okay. I want to try it now. Cheers. Cheers. L'chaim. What do you say in Sweden? Skå'm gonna try it now. Cheers. Cheers. L'chaim, what do you say in Sweden? Skål. Skål. Skål.

It used to be a magickal skål. Mm-hmm. Skål. Yeah, that was good. This is really just a light lunch, so. Okay. How's the salad? This is what I'm gonna tell you tonight.

I like this herb salad. I like it, it's a good, it's a good. The herb? Herb. The herb salad? It's really nice, mum. I'm really enjoying this. This is exactly what I need. Lovely. That's great. It's very nice. The herbs are nice. Good job. The herbs are nice. Yes. So your mother-in-law does a really good fles...

What is it? Fles? Sorry. Try it. I'm not going to say it. It was something along the lines of... Flesk med løksås. I was quite good. Flesk med løksås. And then pudding. Are you a dessert kind of chap? Not really. Good. Good because you've got strawberries. I love... I mean, ice cream is good. Any particular ice cream?

It's a pudding. Is that what you say? Dessert is pudding? Yeah. I love mo good. Any particular ice cream? Some pudding. Is that what you say? Dessert is pudding? Yeah. I love moochies. What do you like? Yeah, what do you guys eat? Inspire me. I'm mad about those moochies.

Mochi. Mochi that you get at... Mochi balls. But you can buy them. Oh, yeah, the ice cream thingy with the rice thing. It's like jelly. Yeah, I love that. I love those.

I've started buying them. That's a good idea. They're called Little Moons. You get them from Ocado. You're going to put that as your... Is that boring? No, it's fine. It's just very interesting that... Okay, so we've kind of got a last supper there, Max Martin. And what drink are you going to have?

Ooh, I would probably have a white bourgon.ne. Okay. What is a white Bourgogne? Like a... White Burgundy. Burgundy, sorry. Would it be Chablis? Is Chablis a Burgundy? Yeah, it could be. Oh, the cat is sort of... Oh, Prince!

He was about... Yeah, he's... His name is Prince? Yeah. After we saw Prince and we got him about a month later. Nice. My favourite artist, by the way. The greatest.

Did you meet him? I just met him. I mean, I did meet him. And? Got a good Prince story? Because we all know about good Prince stories. I'd love to say that I had like a two-hour chat with him. I didn't.

It was more of a friendly at a function kind of thing was he was he well behaved it was very he had a cane okay brilliant and why because he's prince yeah he's allowed to do what the fuck he wants yeah he can do whatever he wants um and uh yeah he was he was really nice had a really deep voice I remember I was that was I was really starstruck. Did you say... I can imagine... Do you still get starstruck? Or was that the only person you got starstruck with? I mean, it's weird. I get starstruck maybe not so much in music anymore. It's more like if I meet amazing... If I get to meet a football player.

Prince? Yeah, I know. Jesus. Stop with the split so footballers you yeah like or any like i met there's this famous chef guy that i met and um the guy who had the fair weekend in sweden um was there a chef's table he might need names is it like Noma is Noma in Sweden no that's in Copenhagen

yeah have you been there I have I had ants did you enjoy it not as in not to eat them not my

dry dance not my mother's sister but actually ants we had young blood on this and he took his whole crew out

and his pool manager really wanted to go and he said it was fucking like fucking pagan ceremony he said it was fucking weird and I just wanted a fucking pint of beer and a steak and a steak and he wasn't a fan but I'm so intrigued by it but this this Swedish chef that you were talking about was that a chef how did you know about the Swedish chef? So this restaurant that's just near my house called Babette, like the local place that we go to, he was sitting there and I felt like, oh, I want to, you know, oh my God, he's here.

So I guess I'm intrigued by, you know, if you're really good at something, whatever it is, I guess I get a little starstruck. It doesn't have to be music. Do you think you'd go into food? I mean, I guess you get, I get a little star struck. It doesn't have to be music. Do you think you'd go into food? I mean, not cooking. I'm not expecting you to cook,

but are you ever tempted to have your own restaurant? Cause you love food so much. My wife actually has, uh, is co, what are you? Co-owner of a restaurant. Yeah.

Yeah. Restaurant. In Los Angeles or? In Chamonix. Oh. In France. Yeah. And we.

Why? Cause you go skiing. Yeah, exactly. Why there? Why? Why Chamonix. Oh. In France, yeah. Why? Because you go skiing. Yeah, exactly. Why there? Why? Why Chamonix? Do you go skiing there? We've been going there for 20 years.

Do you ski? I do. I would have thought of you as a snowboarder. Why? The hair. The hair. The hair? Yeah.

Okay. I'm the kind of skier, I'm not awesome, but I like going when the weather is nice. You're black scope? Yeah. Oh, okay. You're pretty awesome. I don't, I'm not a big off-piste kind of guy, but I like, here the weather is nice you're black scope yeah oh okay you're pretty awesome I don't I'm not a big

off-piste kind of guy but I like here's what we do okay okay we get out there not too early does Doris come too

she does she could scare she's better than me okay let me tell you that so we get up not too early because that's the thing

about skiing everyone has to get up like five in the morning yeah it doesn't seem like a holiday. Yeah, that's like, no. So we get out there like 10, 30, 11. Yeah.

And the weather is obviously great. Because otherwise we wouldn't be there. Otherwise it's freezing. Yeah, and then you go for like, I don't know, two hours and then you have lunch. And you have lunch. And that's it. And then you ski back home. You know what, maybe I will go on holiday with you, Max.

Because I've always thought of it as quite arduous skiing. What does arduous mean? Like really hard work. Right. It doesn't have to be. Like the whole putting the body kit and caboodle on. But it's when you're little and you have to carry your skis. It's a lot of effort.

It's a ski school and it's so much effort. I also used to have a really weak bladder. So you didn't have people carrying your skis for you? Like I do? No, I'm kidding. But her aunt lives in Birmingham. So I a really weak bladder. So you didn't have people carrying your ski suit? No. Like I do? Okay. But her aunt lives in Birmingham. But I had a weak bladder. And a jumpsuit, a ski suit, and a weak bladder.

So I used to think pissing in the snow. Jessie, you're only five, darling. I know. But, you know, it's triggering. I wasn't 23. Our challenge is, the big challenge of the day is getting from the restaurant, which is usually in the slope, back to the car. Because that's when there's been San Sergio going on.

Apres Ski. Is that quite a big thing in your family? Well, we don't do it, you know, the Doobie Brothers cover band thing. We do it, we stay, yeah, we have lunch and then we go home. It's not, and the lunch lasts for maybe two and a half hours three hours yeah and so so it so did your wife start this restaurant out of this love of the kind of the apres ski yeah so there was a friend it was actually a friend of ours who is a chef and and and he wanted to start his own thing, and we talked to him, and yeah, he's a great guy.

His name is David. And yeah, so we put this thing together. I guess this is quite an interesting one, the one that you ask everybody, Mum. Which song is he going to sing at karaoke? Of his own. Oh. Of your own.

He can choose anybody, Jess. Okay, let's do two. I think it's going to be Kiss. Or a Prince song. Well, you know what? I have a weird... My favorite Prince song is Sometimes It Snows in April, which is like a deep cut on a parade.

Can you find that on the old... That's a problem. They probably don't have the words so i can do it acapella but the people don't seem to like that um if i had to do one on my oh jesus i had to pick a simple one well it could be like you're really drunk and you choose that one you're really sad i have done i want it that way on karaoke once i yeah i i understand yeah because it's kind of like especially when you're drunk it's there's like not that much especially in the beginning it gets it's easy did you learn

any of the dance routines at any of your like you know everybody i did i know them all do you know have you ever tried have you ever tried well there's one in the show that i like in the end when she does roar she She does this thing. Oh, flipping heck, I forgot you did roar. Roar. That's his favorite song, Jessie. Oh, it's a great song. Really?

Thank you. My daughter and my son are obsessed with that. Really? And it's very good for them to know how to kind of roar. Yeah, they're very good. Very good. Thank you. Oh, thank you. So for people that couldn't see that, Max was doing a dance routine from Ann Julia

that comes at the end of the show, so. And I'm glad you had to explain that because it wasn't a pretty sight. Thank you. It was beautiful. Yeah, well. That is a bloody, yeah. I always rated Katy Perry,

she skipped through the whole of the MTV Awards, VMAs maybe, sung that song skipping. Yeah. She didn't skip. sung that song skipping. Yeah. She didn't skip. It was very impressive. It was kind of a whole boxer theme. She's an impressive girl.

She's brilliant. She's brilliant. Last question, Max Martin. Do you have good table manners? So by table manners, you mean like knowing how to... Whatever your interpretation of table manners are. I think, here's the thing I think there's a there's a there's a reality and then there's my how I think I am I think I think I do

semi somewhat you do I don't think I'm not sure my wife would agree um but I'm yeah I think I'm okay I would say I'm not I don't think I would be comfortable like dining with the queen, feeling like, oh, I got this. No. If I look at people's manners, table manners, I'm like, I'm happy if you don't throw up on the table, basically.

You know what I'm saying? So there's- So it's quite low bar. Yeah, low bar, low bar. So Max, I mean, you've got to get a flight. We've had you for an hour and a half. We're sorry, we could have chatted for longer. But honestly, it's such a pleasure to meet you i've heard such good things about you but yeah you

absolutely lived up to it um i i yeah max martin thanks so much thank you thank you thank you for having me if you'd like you you that was great i love your food do you can i come back yeah you can with pleasure. Max Martin, hers almost as long as yours. It was really delish, Mum. Was it nice? The eggs were really delightful. They're nice, weren't they? Just tell the listener how you did them.

You boil beetroot with sugar and vinegar and mustard seeds. And you should put chilli in, but I didn't think chilli would go somehow. So I boiled it and then strained it and then put the eggs in and they colour. They turn pink. So you cobbled the eggs. And they take the, they're slightly sweet aren't they? They take the taste. Yeah. Really good. Really enjoyed it.

I thought they looked pretty with the salmon. Super pretty. So you just leave them sitting in cold water? Yeah. No. I hobbled the eggs. Yeah. Then I strained the beetroot juice and sat them in the beetroot juice. You can put them in a jar and they'll keep for a month.

Oh. Pickled eggs. I don't think I've ever had pickled eggs. It's not like the same as the chip shop. No, it was really good, Mum. Obviously, I loved speaking to Max Martin. Of course you did. I find it just fascinating.

And it was very interesting him saying that actually this whole formula thing that the Swedes are always known for is complete codswallop. Scandi pop. Scandi Pop. Scandi Pop. Liked him very much. Very nice man. Very nice. Anyone going to Chamonix that listens to us, go and try out the restaurant.

I really enjoyed the lunch. Light lunch. It was a very light lunch. So much so that I feel rather pissed. You didn't have that much drink. You had two half glasses, darling. I had one glass. Yeah.

Am I a lightweight now? No, it's just lunchtime. It wasn't a massive meal was it I didn't do loads of roast potatoes did I anyway we need to hear from you lot what do you want to hear the guests talk about we should put it to you you've been listening for long enough we've been doing this for a while we're slightly pissed by the end of these episodes so we don't you know we lose track but we'd love to um hear from you and see what you would like to know about our guests jesse have just got to mention that when i went off to meet hannah our podcast was on ba and i listened to nigella i thought you know that's bloody good that was when we were professional yeah maybe you were better at it then, but it sounded very good.

Did you like the sound of your own voice, Mum? Not really, but I liked the sound of hers. So if you've got any ideas, email us at hello at tablemannerspodcast.com and we'd love to hear from you. It doesn't even have to be a suggestion. We'd just like to hear from you. You're good fun. Yes.

Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.