Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S13 Ep 12: LA Special - Nancy Silverton

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Up this week… another slice of LA with none other than a national treasure, superstar chef, author & queen of the American artisanal loaf - Nancy Silverton. Famed for her sourdough starter, Nancy talks to us about her rise to the top, growing up in the valley, her obsession with pistachios & loving TV dinners at her grandmas. We recorded this episode from Nancy's famous ‘Osteria Mozza’ restaurant on Melrose Avenue and were lucky enough to taste her famous chopped salad and also had a first in eating shrimp on a pizza. Full of food and elegance.. enjoy! XNancy's London restaurant is Pizzeria Mozza at Treehouse London Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here. We're doing a special one. This is a special one because you're not cooking. I'm feeling relaxed. I'm feeling quite cool because we're in air conditioning and I feel like we're in Europe. Yes. This is like a European restaurant. We're not in Europe. We're in France but we're not. We're on Melrose Avenue at Mozza. Now, anyone who has been to Los Angeles may have eaten at Mozza. And if you haven't eaten at Mozza, you probably have heard of this chef. She's loved by the whole of... The whole universe, I think.

Her name is Nancy Silverton. Every time I've mentioned her... Oh, wow. I think. Her name is Nancy Silverton. Every time I've mentioned her, people come in. Wow. It's the one that I feel like people are so excited that we've got her. This is, you know, this is a big deal for us. Yeah. So we, I don't know how we wangled this, but we're not cooking.

So we're in her restaurant. Nancy is going to cook for us and give us her food. And we're going to talk to her all about table manners. And her amazing life. I wonder what she's going to cook for us and give us our food. And we're going to talk to her all about table manners. And her amazing life. I wonder what she's going to wear. She's a bit of a stylist. I've brought my bigger glasses because she wears a strong frame. Nancy has a chef's kitchen on Netflix.

She has many different restaurants. She had La Brea Bakery, which was adored. And she is known to be the kind of, the starter. The doyen of sourdough. The doyen. The starter of sourdough. The mother. The mother.

Sourdough mother. The mother. The sourdough mother. And artisanal bread. We're trying to be very well behaved. I guess we have to be on our best behaviour. Why? I don't know.

Because we're in somebody else's house. Okay, so no arguing. Just last week, Kendall and Kylie had their make-up launch in the room right next to us that we would be in, but the fridge is a little buzzy. So we're in this room. I'm going to have to go out and put money on the meter halfway through, no doubt. So this morning, Mum, we went to Benny's house. Yeah.

And we had a pool morning and he got us Courage bagels. Now, Courage bagels are a bit of a phenomenon. Come from Manchester, it's different. Look, so Courage bagels, I've seen on Instagram, everyone's talking about them. They're accused lines for ages. However, we got a little delivery. And I have to say, it was a very delicious bagel however it didn't taste really like a bagel it was like a sourdough bun bagel it was chewy but i liked it it was chewy

on the outside it was tasty i cut it because of my veneers i was scared about my veneer actually i had to cut those. It was very delicious. It was delicious. The toppings were delicious. The tomatoes on those. Oh, I didn't have. Oh, the tomato. Oh, darling.

Or the lumpfish roe. It wasn't lumpfish. It was big cod roe, big balls. Oh, it was lovely. I love big balls. That's for sure. And then lox. It was very, very nice.

However, I didn't go for my third one because I knew we were coming here. Your third half. Which is also a dirty... I had two halves. I walked up to Benny's with the baby to earn my courage bag off. Crikey. Oh, yeah, vey. How did you get up that hill?

I struggled. I bet you did. I did, but anyway. So now I have even more room for what Nancy Silverton is going to cook for us. We're waiting to meet her. The goddess that is Nancy Silverton coming up on Table Manners. Nancy, so I don't know how much you know about this.

No, but that's okay. Okay, fine. Well, usually we'd cook for you and you'd come to our house. Oh, that's right. That I do know of. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know you owe me a meal.

Yeah. That is fine. When you're in London, we'll do you one. Okay. Okay. But if I'm being honest, this suits us perfectly. Yeah. We get to eat.

This is such a treat for us. Okay. So I know we're sending you food from Mozza to go, which is great. Will you be eating this with us? No, but I will watch you eat. Do you eat, Nancy? Yes, I do.

Are you... Is it kind of like you... If you see one more sourdough or pizza base, you may just kind of... You're tired of it at the moment yeah but I'm very happy watching you eat oh I'm very happy to eat and you to not take my portion so I'm gonna have yours um so Nancy mum and I do this podcast we've been doing it for years now and I think we were actually gonna have you in London when you were over for the opening of... Now, I want to say mozzarella...

How do you say it? Mozza. So think mozzarella. Okay, fine. And that's where the word comes from. Okay, fine. So we would say it mozza anyway. Mozzarella, mozza.

Oh, we would. Now, see, most people, or not most, but a lot of people say matzah. They want to make it a Jewish restaurant. It's not. It's an Italian restaurant. And it's short for mozzarella. So, Nancy, we talk about food, which is obviously quite easy for you.

Yeah. But can we start at the beginning? You grew up in Los Angeles, right? Yes, I grew up. Well, you are not from here, so you don't necessarily understand the divisions. But I grew up in what's called the San Fernando Valley. We know about the valley. Do you know? You do?

Licorice Pizza was all about the valley. Licorice Pizza, the Heim girls. Yeah. Wow, you're really up on it. Well, growing up there, which I didn't understand, it was very looked down on. Yeah, the valley. And still you kind of say, I'm from the valley. Why is that?

I don't know. Because it's not in, like, the hub of Hollywood. Or the people. You know why is that I don't know because it's not in like the hub of Hollywood or the people you know there was first of all there's been songs about valley girl right I remember when I was uh 17 ish and took a bus to the beach for the first time by myself right it was like a big thing because we don't use transportation in any of public transportation in any of Los Angeles. It's like so crazy. So I took the bus there and there was the big graffiti on the wall. Vows go home.

And I'm like, what's a vow? Vows go home. I'm like, what's a vow? I didn't even know that because growing up in the Insular Valley, I didn't know that there was this distinction between the valley and the other side of the hill. But was it something about class? But it wouldn't be something about class when you think of necessary. Maybe I think it had to do more with sophistication, but not class in terms of money class, wealth. It wasn't like that necessary I think it

was more like they don't know what they're you know they're backwards I don't know what the equivalent would be in say London like what part of London would be like saying Essex go home yeah okay okay but so so and you grew up and you're both your parents worked yes Yes. Are they both Jewish? They both are Jewish. My father was from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Yeah. And my mother was from Yonkers, New York.

But originally, where was their background from? Their background was my mother's side was, I don't, her father was, her mother's mother's side was, I know, from Belarus. Yeah. I know her father's side was I don't her father was his her mother's mother's side was I know from Belarus yeah I know her father's side was from Russia yeah I know my father's father's side was from Poland I know my father's mother's side although they were all born in Saskatchewan Canada they were actually also from somewhere in Russia. Yeah. Did you grow up with lots of Jewish food around you? No, like none. Are you kidding?

Why? I don't, you know, my father was brought up religious-ish. And I think he turned his back on it when he became an adult. My mother grew up with, you know, it's known as, are you Jewish? We're Jewish, yeah. Okay, so she grew up, I guess, which they would say was reformed. Yeah, we're reformed.

We never went to temple. And somebody was asking me, because I am going to my daughter's house on Friday for Passover, because she married someone that's not religious, but does celebrate all the holidays. Well, that's what we do. But I didn't always.

It's funny. I probably celebrated at my house Passover. If I had to say growing up six times, maybe that's an exaggeration. But when we did, like my mother would have said maybe, I think I'm going to have Passover this year. And then she would have it. And my father would put together this very arty program that had to do with, like, the graphic story of Passover in beautiful woodcuts that he

would find. Oh, my goodness. Not that he made, but he would find kind of like Italian woodcuts, kind of, that were just very graphic. That told the story. That told the story. Like the Haggadah, but in woodcuts. Yeah.

Wow. very graphic story that told the story like the Haggadah but exactly yeah and then he told the story in a very kid-friendly kind of way rather than the traditional that could be taken as kind of boring have you still got these woodcuts yeah are you going to bring them over on Friday I think I will I do have them I have like the last kind of book he put together, which was probably 15 years. He's no longer alive. It's like 20 years ago or 15 years ago or something. So there wasn't Jewish food. So what food were your parents cooking?

Were they good cooks? You know, so I grew up in, I'm 67. So I grew up in, well, born in the 50s, 54, but let's say I grew up in the 60s. And I don't know, again, how it was in London at that time, but in the United States, the 60s was the beginning of convenience food. So all the food that my mother would never buy, and I hated her for it. So I wanted TV dinners. Do you know what that looked like? Yeah, but we never really got TV dinners you know do you know what that looked like yeah but we I we'd

never really got TV dinners we had frozen food right but we never really had TV dinners where it was TV dinners was like you'd have a roast beef but it was compartmentalized on a little tray and none of your food and it was yeah and it was flat so you could put it on your lap while you watch the telly right or have a TV tray. On an airplane, kind of. Yeah, kind of, yes. But none of the food touched. It was all divided, compartmentalized.

So you had your potato and one bit. And I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And I had to go to my grandma's, where she would buy it. Did you eat kosher? No, no kosher. She would buy it. But my mother, you know. Did you eat kosher?

No, no kosher. But she would just, she was a health conscious cook. Yeah. In the days when nobody, before it was popular. So for instance, well, one thing is that nobody would ever trade lunches with me. I don't know. Was that, did you pack your school lunches when you went to school? I made my school lunch, yeah. So you didn't need like in a cafeteria? Because when I was first

in school, there wasn't really cafeterias. But there was, you brought your lunch. And then all the kids love to trade for all, like I'll trade you my cookies for your cookies or things like that. And my mother packed me everything that nobody would want to trade. So for instance, my sandwiches were all on whole grain bread. Good. And I would say, can't you buy white bread like everybody else? Can't you cut the crust off like everybody else? Can't you cut it in triangles like everybody else?

She was very into packaging, too. So, for instance, if she ever bought me potato chips, which was so rare, she would never buy the individual packaged potato chips she would buy like the big bag and throw them in the bag not even that like thrown in because she thought it was a waste you know she was a waste of packaging things like that you know so I never got the food I wanted to eat in my house or in my in my lunches but she was a good cook and I didn't think she was and I didn't appreciate what she made what was one of your favorite dishes of hers that you accepted so I accepted when she would make brisket how did she do it she braised it yeah um and in fact I um just did this collaboration with um a company from Australia

a Wagyu beef company and they sent me a bunch of briskets which were fantastic and we are doing this mother's day box where I'm I got to choose 50 people that I'm sending a brisket to with a recipe how I prepare it with the two sauces that I she didn't serve it with but that I do and a whole little booklet about myself and my mom and it was like a little it was and what I included in this um in this um booklet was a copy because when she passed away uh I took her her recipe book which was not a huge recipe book, but it was filled with clippings from the newspaper, and there was a clipping of brisket.

So it's like, I don't know if that's the one she used. Do you like a sweet sauce with your brisket? I like horseradish cream and a green sauce, salsa verde. So you just braise it? It's marinated overnight. It's braised in beer. Okay, so I braise in beer, it's, you know. Okay, so I braised mine in Coca-Cola.

See, I know because I love ham done that way. And it's a secret that you don't really realise it's there, but I think it's really smart. Yeah, so I've done with... You do yours with tomatoes as well now. I can't remember. Oh no, loads of onions. Loads of, masses and masses of onions and Coca-Cola. Well, you know, we have brisket on the menu at, in London now. Oh, no, loads of onions. Loads of, masses and masses of onions and Coca-Cola. Well, you know, we have brisket on the menu in London now. Oh, nice.

You should try it because when I went over there last time, they wanted to do it as a Mother's Day special. And I said, just put it on as a kind of a main, you know, so it's on there. I think it's on there as a regularly you should go look

brisket is such a tasty cut yeah it's a tasty cut and a tasty preparation and we all love braised soft meat I love it

it's gorgeous yeah and what would you have it with so it me at home or now now

now the way we serve it, and in London it's in a giant bowl, and I just do a hunk of it. I don't even slice it. I like a hunk torn off. And then we have delicious Jersey potatoes, carrots,

and spring onions braised. Oh, I've never done that. How nice. They're like baby leeks in a way. Yeah, exactly. So speaking about, you know,

the fact that you wanted white bread, you didn't want any of that whole grain shit, and then you become the queen of baking, artisanal bread. When was the shift? What happened? I grew up. Yeah, fair enough. So, so you know I used to fight

with my parents and my sister because she was a lot more adventurous now again back in the 60s for a family to go out for a meal it wasn't as prolific as it is now so there were choices of coffee shops or little mom and pop kind of quirky ethnic restaurants. And when we would travel or take a road trip, I was always like, let's go to whatever that Denny's, you know, let's. Oh, no, there's a coffee shop because I knew that I could get something that I wanted. And they would always be and they would look for these like little kind of quirky kind of restaurants. And I hated it, hated it, hated it, hated it. But I started cooking in college.

And with the love of being in the kitchen. So it was the kitchen, being in the kitchen, and the idea of pleasing people with what you made is what really drew me into the business. The food was secondary. So you started with vegetarian cuisine, right? Yeah, and I only started with vegetarian because that was the only opening in the dormitory kitchen that, or it wasn't that it was the only opening, it was the person who I wanted

to meet was in charge of the vegetarian program at the dormitory. So that's why. So you'd cook for your fellow students yes like because that's not what we do we have I mean that's is that quite an American thing to do that you have chefs that are students in learning and then cooking well I don't know if it's an American thing but it was also a way I mean I didn't necessarily need to do this but it gave me either free or half off my dorm so I think it's an opportunity to work on campus that's offered. When did you know that you were actually quite good at cooking which dish was the one that people came back

for more in that dorm? In that dorm it wasn't the dish it was just it was just what we made for vegetarians and so at that time you know I gotta tell you it was food that I don't know if I would even eat today or um you know but back then because nobody really took vegetarian or people that were non-meat eaters into the mix. It would be like, let's say it was different vegetables, you know, let's say cauliflower, broccoli and squash, you know, cooked and then a lot of cheese melted on and then sunflower seeds and sesame seeds on top. You know, it was like that. It wasn't like it was so elevated, you know, or so thought out. I bought a cookbook and I started cooking out of that cookbook. And I still have that cookbook. It was called

Cooking Creatively with Natural Foods. I think I need to buy it. I think you don't need to. Well, I haven't gone back to it, but I have used it in photo shoots because it's such a part of me. That was my first cookbook. And one of the things that was the page that was kind of the dirtiest, so it must be that I made it the most, was something called lentil loaf. So you could think about this block, you know, because at that time. A block of lentils. Yeah, at that time, vegetarian options were not considered that refined.

You know, they were always, you know, it was always like, well, it's vegetarian and that's why it tastes so bad. Yeah, you have to adapt with it. Yeah, but it's not. So, and you've talked about this epiphany that you had at college. Yeah. And you left, well, you went to pursue cooking. Yes. So was it quite rare for a woman to be in these kitchens?

Did you start? You went and trained. But when you were first in these kind of professional kitchens, where was your first job? And was it quite rare that you were a woman in that situation? Well, you know, I never. Well, a couple of things, because that's a question that brings in all sorts of answers. One was that I stayed in college until almost the very end, which was my last year.

What were you studying? I had switched. I went in for political science, and I finished in liberal studies, and I was in a very tiny little college within a college, and it was called Hutchins School within the college I went to. But when I called my parents up and said, I'm not taking my finals, I'm dropping out, all I really want to do is cook, and what they should have, not should have, they could have said, being both professionals, both a child cooking, wanting to cook as a living was very new in the 70s. Again, 2022, any child that

comes back to their parents and says, I want to cook and I'm going to be a TV star. Their parents are like, yes, you know, but back then it, you know, I don't know. So there was nothing, no precedent. Right. And what my father said to me without a pause was that's okay. As long as you sign up for the Cordon Bleu, I didn't even know what the Cordon Bleu was. And that's okay as long as you sign up for the cordon bleu I didn't even know what the cordon bleu was and that's how I ended up there there was a year waiting list to get into the London he knew and I don't know how he knew I didn't even know there were cooking that people went to cooking schools to cook where was the cordon bleu on Marleybone Lane which is so crazy it's no longer on Marleybone Lane the cordon bleu still exists in London but it's not on Marleybone Lane but what's so crazy is that's where I'm back

is in the Marleybone area and it's got the best restaurants and full of gorgeous restaurants and I lived in West Hampstead at a bed and breakfast and I would take the Bakerloo line and get off at Marleyabone High Street every day and walk. Did you love that? Yeah. Loved it. So after I first cooked, when I started cooking in the dorms, the next couple summers, when I came back to Los Angeles, I did get kitchen jobs at some little local eateries, right? So I cooked a little there.

Went back to school. But when I dropped out to actually work and I told my parents that I asked them if they'd be willing to support me because I was going to walk into a kitchen and say, let me work for free because I knew that I didn't have the skill to get paid at what I wanted to learn. You know, I would otherwise have been stuck in some little part of the kitchen if they were going to pay me. And they said, yes, they would. And it was a restaurant about an hour away from me, a drive. And I didn't want to move. And it was called 464 Magnolia in a little town in Marin County called Larkspur. And was your experience positive, I presume? Oh, yeah. And that's what I wanted to say a couple things. So first of all, most importantly, I grew up in a family of very, very strong women. I don't mean my direct family, although my mother was.

But I mean her aunts were very, very strong women. One was jailed. She was a suffragette, you know, very, very political. The other one was a very famous lobbyist in Washington, D.C. So I grew up with the feeling, not with the feeling, I just grew up kind of with the genetics that women could do anything. I didn't ever think of it as any gender issue in a kitchen. So that's one thing. Secondly, I grew up in California, which is very different from the rest of the world. So for instance, if you were to ask me, who are my mentors or who are my favorite cooks? I would list you 10 cooks and I wouldn't even be realizing

that they were all women and they were all California women, you know. So it wasn't so unusual in California. And then thirdly, the three kitchens that I worked in before I opened my own restaurant Campanile, which was my first restaurant in 1989, were kitchens that were run by very open-minded men who embraced everybody. So there were just no, none of those kinds of issues in the kitchen that you would maybe think of in a, say, a stereotypic European, specifically French or German kitchen where there's that, there's that, yeah, there's, and there's that prominent chef, you know, usually a male and, you know, yells and throws things. I didn't grow up in those kinds of kitchens. So I didn't have those kinds of problems.

I'm sure you've said this many times before, but how, why did you land on Italian cuisine as your, your love, your, your passion? How did it happen? Well, it wasn't just Italian cuisine and, and it was just the part of Italian cuisine that I love. And it's the simplicity, part of Italian cuisine that I love. And it's the simplicity. It's the depth of flavors. It's the seasonality. It's the simple preparation. It's the food is supposed to, I feel, or meant to bring so much joy to the table. And that's where it ends up. And that's where it all comes together is at the table with people you love people you knew you meet that's the exciting part of food and I think that nobody but the Italians know and embrace it as well I've read that you don't call yourself a chef is that still the like it never was a word that... Yeah.

I don't know. There's something about titles that are kind of weird to me. I'm not sure what it is. But again, when I think of that chef, it was that chef growing up that... Barked orders? Yeah, that barked orders, threw things, wore starch white coats and a big white hat. I don't know.

I thought to be a chef you had to have a restaurant. I thought to be a chef, you had to have a restaurant. And if you were a cook, you didn't have it. So Nigella, have you heard of Nigella? Of course. Yeah. So she describes, well, actually she describes. She doesn't have a restaurant. No, she describes herself as a home cook.

Yeah. Which is what I call myself. And I'm not like Nigella really at all. Right. Some people would disagree. They don't. But but yeah you feel comfortable being a yeah a cook yeah I don't know what it I don't know why do you like cooking I love cooking I love cooking and I love um I love cooking I love working in my with my with my hands I love

touching and you know massaging not manipulating but massaging, you know, massaging, not manipulating, but massaging ingredients, you know. Unfortunately, just because of my schedule, I don't get to do it as much as I would love. But I do get to do it the two months that I spend in Italy every summer. And that's where I cook. Where? Which part of Italy? In Umbria, which is where I have a little house. And that's where I cook. I mean, I really. Which part of Italy? In Umbria, which is where I have a little house. And that's where I do all my cooking. I do cook, get to cook here a little bit.

Not like I can cook there where there's nothing else to distract me. And I just get to invite people over. And I just get to wake up in the morning and write my list and lay out my mise en place, and I get to start cooking. And that's when I really am the happiest. But I just finished another cookbook. It's being sent in tomorrow. Wow. A baking book.

Oh, wow. Did you do Sartre bread during lockdown? No, and this is how I started. Well, that's what I talk about in this book. So I didn't because I've done it, which doesn't mean I couldn't make bread for mine, but I didn't have that urge. I didn't have, you know, I think all the people,

somebody asked me once, why do you think all these people bake bread during the pandemic? Besides all the obvious, which was, you know, it's so homing, it's nurturing, it, you know, I need comfort, you know, all those things. I think also it was because so many people said to themselves, I either, I don't have the time to bake bread and that's why I don't make it. So it was an excuse. Or when I find the time to bake bread,

I'm going to learn how. And all of a sudden, everybody was given that time. Yeah. So they had to make good with that promise they made themselves. Or kill the starter. Yeah. What's your starter called?

It doesn't have a name. Oh, that's not very fun, Nancy. God, come on. We ask everybody on the podcast what their last supper would be before they were about to go off somewhere, that they were not going to have all the things that they loved. For about six months. Oh, without a doubt, it wouldn't be a supper it would just be i love crusty bread yeah slathered with with european butter oh really drowned in olive oil

it goes both ways do you like salty or i like to control my salt okay but i love but then i add salt yeah okay but then I add salt but I just can't you know like right now I'll tell you what I'm obsessed with I get obsessed I'm obsessed with pistachios and like I find that that's all I'm eating these days I love to work for my food I love opening them up I don't like like a bag of shelled pistachios but there's something the salty the crunchy the working for the little prize yeah that's all i'm like want to eat because you bake as well i feel like you like a little hardship you need you need to earn that morsel yeah yeah and you burn off all those calories oh yeah obviously where's your bakery of choice in L.A.?

For what? For, you know, bread or, you know, pastries. Because obviously you had La Brea. I think the person doing the best pastries that you could just sort of buy as a pastry shop definitely would be Marge over at my old La Brea bakery spot. Okay. At Republic. She does a fantastic job.

Yeah, I've eaten there. And the bread was exceptional. But the bread that we get, by the way, and I think it's very delicious, and you'll like the name, being who you are, it's called Bub and Grandma. Bub and Grandma. And they don't have,

they're just in the process of opening up a sort of bricks and mortar place. Right now it's just wholesale. And it's just everything you want, the crusty sourdough, you know. So we've got a kind of appetizer with the bread and the pistachios. Entree? Like what are you going to have for your last supper? Well, and it can't just be bread and butter and anchovies. I mean, Nancy, I feel like we can push it a little further.

Anchovies love it. I know. And we love what we use. I do too. Where do you get your anchovies from? We get our anchovies, and I'm talking about the canned anchovies. So the hands down, the best anchovies, and I've been through them all, are the ones from the Cantabrian Sea in Spain.

Called what's herher-name? It's not... Not Ortiz? No. I will give you a little can of them and you can try them, but they're meaty, they're not funky, and I think they're just the best. And what colour are they? They're not dark brown and salty.

They are. They're like silvery. No, no, no. They're dark, but they're not salty, but they're meaty and just delicious. Okay. So is that your final answer? My final answer, I'll tell you why, and it leads into another question. It leads into another question, and you said one of the questions that you were going to ask me is, do I have table manners? And I was going to come back with you and say,

oh, I do have something else I would eat. Do I have good table manners? And if you think that being able to eat with your hands is good table manners, then I have excellent ones because I love anything I can eat with my hands. I love picking up salads. So a, let's say a Caesar's, I mean, a really well-crafted Caesar's salad. I love picking up food by my hand. So that's why I'm saying the crusty bread with the butter, and then maybe I'll drown some, just condiments around me. Semi-dried tomatoes, anchovies, buffalo mozzarella.

So like an anti-pasta, like we're going, okay, fine. Yeah, we're going that way. As opposed to a heavy, yeah, there. So many, you need to meet Tomasina Myers when you come to London. Okay, I'm going to. You sound exactly like her. She eats salad with her hands.

But it's very interesting because she talked about also wanting to, feeling a bit lost. Now, I don't think you were lost, but she said she felt lost and didn't know what she wanted to do and then had this feeling that she wanted to do cooking. She went to the best place, Ballymolloy. Know that.

There you go. She said in the time that she wanted to be a chef, a cook, it felt still quite original, and that was only the early noughties. So she kind of felt like it wasn't like now, which, you know, food is so sexy. Yeah. And cooking is so sexy.

It's like, you know. And so well received. Yes. And so well done. Her obsession is chilies. So she puts chili in chocolate cake. Even in chocolate. I love chilies.

She did this beautiful flourless chocolate cake. But chilies I've never heard of, you know. Well, it's all these Mexican I mean anyway but and she talked about eating with her hands and it's so tactile but you see like she was you said that she felt lost and then she thought I think I'd like to go to cooking school and then she went to cooking school so for me it was not realizing I wanted to cook or liked cooking it was more that you know I was uh looking after a guy and thank you well I was doing it that epiphany we talked about earlier was that well this is what I want to do for the rest of my life I didn't know

what I never thought about it before um this is a shrimp aglio olio and a fennel sausage so what people can't see is that we've got the fennel sausage pizza that I have heard about. And then we've got a shrimp with garlic. Yeah, delicious. Olive oil and parsley. Is this the chopped salad that I've heard about? You're defining chopped salad. Yes, it is.

And that's a bit of a bugger to eat with your fingers or not? That one is, yes. Because I would be able to figure out a way. Yes, it is because everything's sliced up. That's why I said Caesar, because most of the time, one has spears of the leaves, right? So that is our- This is what Benny's mom was like,

you've got to get the trick along. That's aubergine parmigiana. My favorite thing on earth. Oh, so they agree., we're in America it's eggplant. Oh sorry. Oh no aubergine. Melazzane parmigiana. Right here, yes. So basically we're being very lucky and we're in Mozza but we're in Mozza eating for Mozza to go. Which is next door. Right now ordinarily in other times, the pizzeria was open seven days a week, where there would be a much larger menu. You know, the mozza to go was a very small part of our pizzeria menu.

I've never had a shrimp on a pizza. Never? You haven't lived. I obviously haven't. It's delicious. I want to try that one. Here you go. And you're not going to eat anything. No, I'm going to watch you though.

Well, that's why you look like you and I look like me. Have you got a sweet tooth much? Are you going to have a dessert on this last supper? If I had a dessert, it would just be

a chocolate bar. Because I also love, I love just breaking a hunk of chocolate you know I just like the simplicity well I like a chocolate I like a bittersweet chocolate um as far as the brands there's just so many of them but I like a bittersweet plain chocolate I like it with malden sea salt I don't mind if if there's an almond here or there or some toffee but for the most part just a simple in fact one of my restaurants that I'm going to be opening up inside the Hollywood Roosevelt where I have one restaurant that's going right now and one that's in the works that's the hotel yeah uh-huh one of

one of them is going to be a wine and cheese bar so super super simple and one of the desserts is just going to be a three chocolate bar tasting you know from a local chocolate maker that i think she does a really lovely job but it's just going to be thin slabs of chocolate and so i think that's what it'd be but i love gelato so maybe that's not fair because i really do love love Pistachio gelato. Love pistachio. Love stracciatella. Probably my favorite is fiordalate, which is that plain white, you know, it's just the flour or the cream.

That's it. This is so delicious. This is really yummy. Thank you. It's really good. Is this a sourdough crust? It's not. Oh, it isn't.

No, but it is a crust where we it takes three days for completion so day one and it's obviously all in rotation but day one is um is putting together the sponge so a part of the recipe to allow it to ferment day two is finishing that dough and letting it rise and fold and do kind of crazy things to it and then shape it into its pizza round and then letting it sit overnight in the refrigerator for that. So it's a three-day process, but not starting with sourdough. I have a Gosney pizza oven. Have you had Gosney? No, I know one that we, a couple that we have out here like um

uni no so you have is it a small one I've got all the gear no idea but I will I believe in myself and my husband becoming pizza pros well if you're going to become a pizza pro yeah is that why you bought it to become a pizza pro it's all my it's what my kids eat. Yeah. So I have a lovely chapter in our Mozza cookbook on pizza. But if you wanted a pizza specific, one of my favorite pizzerias in the country, perhaps my favorite, is one in New Jersey. And he just came out with a book. And his book is fantastic, including there's a QR code

so you can actually see him making and shaping so you can watch. So you're not just reading, which I think helps. And I will give you the specifics. The author, the chef of the pizzeria, his name is Dan Richter. And the name of the pizza, the book and his pizzeria is Raza. And that pizza book will teach you how to be the master you want to be. And how did you find Dan? Found him because there was an article in the New York Times a number of years ago

by a very, you know, renowned and well-respected food writer that said the best pizza in New York is actually in New Jersey I mean that must have just killed a lot of New Yorkers you know and went on to talk about it so I went out there to try it and it's it's like delicious and we've had him in here to do collaborations at our pizzeria and he's a lovely man I've eaten there whenever I fly to London and other parts um United at one point which is my airline uh only flew out of New Jersey and uh it does and so Jersey City there I go see what's in the tricolor salad so it is a mix of lettuces rucola and radicchio and frise yeah and then there's layers

of parmigiano-reggiano and then an anchovy vinaigrette yeah and um and in the chopped salad you can see everything on top which unfortunately served this way which is the only way you can serve it to go everything's on top. We toss it at the restaurant. So you get an equal mingling of aged provolone, fennel salami, iceberg lettuce, radicchio, pepperoncini, red onion, garbanzo beans, tomato. All the flavors when I originally came up with the salad seemed to go with a pizzeria. You know, I don't know, again, in London. And by the way, when I went to London in the Cordon Bleu, now I didn't have, in 77 is when I went,

I didn't have a lot of money to eat in any high-end restaurants. So the restaurants that were affordable to me that I could eat at were truly dreadful. And now the food scene cannot be beat in London. It is just fantastic. my god oh yeah yeah thriving and the young cooks are so energetic and the food is so great but the typical pizzeria Italian restaurant in Los Angeles growing up always had a relish tray and on that relish tray were whole pepperoncini, there would be green onions, there would be some provolone cheese, some salami, so this is all the flavors of that relish tray in a salad with this oregano vinaigrette and that's key because it always had a lot of

oregano. Nancy could you, well I'll say stuff my face with your lovely food, could you tell me a taste or a scent that can take you back somewhere instantly? Wow so many but um. What springs to mind? Great question because I mean like it'll be a dish that will bring me back but if I think about going back to say an experience right I think whenever I eat feta cheese Greek feta cheese with olive oil and that wild rucola sorry oregano just sprinkled on. I think about the summer where I spent six weeks in Greece on Paros Island. And I think every single day I ate the Greek salad and I never got tired of it.

Do you go to Greece a lot now? No. Because you go to Italy. Yeah, I don't go there, but it's like you can't eat that. Was it the Greek salad every day that put you off? I don't know. No, it was just, you know, besides going to Italy where I have a home, it's really the only place that I take a vacation.

Next week I'm going to Hawaii with my kids. Well, my daughter and my grandkids and her husband. And I think it's the first vacation. You know, I don't take vacations even though my life is a vacation. But I always feel more comfortable when there is a work component to it so like when I go to London for instance I look after the restaurant and then I go and I eat out and I shop and I you know but so my two months that I spent in Italy in the summer which is very generous six or six weeks to eight weeks in the summer and two weeks in the

winter those are strictly vacations um and so I just would never if somebody invited me to Greece to go cook a meal I would be there in a second but I haven't been I think the food seems really improved in Greece in Greece yeah also Istanbul Turkey I've never been to Istanbul I've never been to Morocco. People say that the cuisine is amazing. I know. I love the food in Israel. And I've been there. We haven't been for ages. I've been there several times for food, you know, food reasons. I mean, not just to go. And boy.

Apparently the food scene is exceptional now. It's exceptional. Nancy, I wanted, before we let you go, and you bet you're busy. I mean, you know, we're in your restaurant. I love the decor in here. Oh, thank you. It feels very European, I think. Did you see the other restaurants? No. I'll give you a quick little tour.

I want to know what your grandchildren's favourite dish of yours is. What are you called? Are you grandma? I'm Nona. And as Nona, anything that's sweet. So, for instance, Goldie, that's my grand...

My two grandkids are Ike and Goldie. And it was Goldie's one-year birthday last weekend. So Ike and I made her cupcakes. But Ike, it has to be sweet and it has to be cake. He could care less about anything else. How old is he? He's three and a half. Oh, Jessie's got a three and a half year old.

Or just three year old, yeah. I've got a five and a three and a nine month. Nine month, yeah. Yeah. Are you stopping? Yeah, I'm done. How many have you got? A three.

Yeah. I've got three. There you go I was one of two I was one of two my dad was one of four three felt right to me two felt like

two adults and two children but three felt like the right thing to do and where's your family my father's mother's side of the family were all farmers from Saskatchewan, Canada. And that's what I named my, they were part of the first Jewish settlement in Saskatchewan. And I named my latest restaurant in Los Angeles, The Bearish, after that side of the family. That was their last name, Bearish.

Bearish. I love that. And where's that? The Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel. Okay. And that's opened, that hasn't opened up yet. It has, but dinner only five days a week. family that was their last name bearish bearish and where's that the hollywood roosevelt hotel okay and that's opened that hasn't opened up yet it has but dinner only five days a week okay no breakfast lunch some snacks in the lobby what's next for you so next opening in singapore next month wow yeah a moza opening up um probably in miami and opening up in washington dc nancy silverton thank you so much thank you this was so wonderful so in london we have to eat around

absolutely absolutely i'll make you my chicken soup okay i'd love it. Before I put the last bit of shrimp pizza in my mouth, she's the chicest person I think I've ever met in my life. So interesting and so loved food. She's just wonderful. I love her style. She just looked wonderful. Thank you, Nancy Silverton, for having us in your place,

being such a great guest. No wonder everyone loves her here. Yeah, everyone does. And she does have a restaurant in London. Yeah. It's in the Treehouse, which is really central London. You go to Oxford Circus. There's in the Treehouse, which is really central London. You go to Oxford Circus. There's a mozza there,

so you can go and eat Nancy Silverton's food in London, if you are in the UK. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week.