Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S14 Ep 11: Paul Hollywood

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

By now you know that mum’s chicken soup only comes out for the big guns… and this week was exactly that.. no pressure mum - we finally got Paul Hollywood!Despite mums soggy bottom Tart Nomande, we somehow managed to win him over & had the most wonderful afternoon talking a LOT about food. Lennie even got a handshake. Paul told us all about how he learnt to bake on the job in his dads bakery, his love of custard, snuggling steak out of work in loaves of bread, how he made it on the Telly and sucking on salty chips! Mums waited a long time for this one. Have a listen! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm sitting doing my lippy. Why mum, may you ask? I think we all want our lippy on tonight darling. You made your feelings known about our guest today when I was on Jonathan Ross and he looked quite thrilled so maybe he's coming here. He said come come on, give us a hug. Did he? Yeah. Gave me a big kiss. Come on then, let's tell everybody what you've got. Can I just say something?

What? Please don't sit there because I want to look right into those eyes. Oh my God. That's all I'm saying. Okay, fair enough. When you get to my age, blue eyes are important. Why blue eyes? All your children have brown eyes.

I know, but his are particularly sparkly blue eyes? All your children have brown eyes. Oh no, Hannah has grey. His are particularly sparkly blue. Wow. Maybe that's the lighting on the Great British Bake Off, Mum. Let's see if they twinkle in real life. I think they do. We've got Paul Hollywood. So excited. And you

have run the risk by doing a tart. Well, I thought I couldn't go wrong here. Your old tart. Because if it's terrible, we can all laugh. If it's good, he might give me a handshake. Star baker. And I just thought I'll have a go. And it looked quite interesting.

Take a moment to guess what mum is going to be doing. She only does this for the big guns. Do you think he's had a taste of matzo ball? Probably. Oh. Well, yeah, but not Len taste of matzo ball? Probably. Oh. Well, yeah, but not Lenny's matzo ball. No. So I've done my matzo balls.

I actually put them in a larger pan and they expanded more. Is that good? They had a little bit more room. Light. Fluffy. Fluffy, light. Cloud-like.

Cloud-like. Paul Hollywood is early, which you know I quite like, so Paul Hollywood coming up on Table Runners. Paul Hollywood has arrived 15 minutes early, which is what we love. I'm a baker. I can't be late.

Oh, fair enough. I like that. But I'm not a baker, but I'm always early. I'll be early for your funeral my mum's always late but my grandad was always early I've got it from my grandad as I have my eyes actually my grandad came from my grandad

are those Irish eyes? they look like Irish ones to me I did my huge you think you are and it's quite difficult because there's Welsh in me, there's Scots and there is Irish. I'm predominantly Celt actually. Who do you support in the World Cup?

England. Good. Let's talk about Who Do You Think You Are. Was it a good experience for you? Yeah, it was. You found out your family are murderers or things. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I did it. Mary had done it.

I've been working with Mary on... Mary Berry. Mary Berry, yeah. She still love you. She never stopped. Even though you deserted her and went... I didn't desert anything, did I? No, you just went with the show.

She deserted me. Oh, very good. Very good, Paul. So ultimately, when I did Who Do You Think You Are? Mary had said, because I know Mary wanted to be related to

some royalty or something. And to be honest, I really hoped it happened for her because she'd be made up, you know. And in the end, when she went back,

her relationships went back to Norfolk, I think. And there were prostitutes and workhouses and stuff. Are you kidding? So when they did mine, I thought, well, wouldn't it be ironic? If you were posh. Yeah.

Poser than Mary, anyway. From a bit of a ruff in the north. So in the end, they found out. They actually found out. I went down my grand nazaree, and I come back to the Mackenzies inarene and I come back go to the Mackenzie's in Scotland and I'm

I come back from that route you know the clans but on my nan's side which is a story they really wanted to tell there was a 20 year gap

which they didn't have paper you've got to have paperwork to back everything they do up and I do go back to Ruthen Castle in Wales which is aristocracy

which where my nan my nan was like the Queen anyway and she was she was looked like the Queen, acted like the Queen common as mum but nevertheless and we did go back to this Ruthen Castle and I've been to Ruthen Castle many times. Did it feel like home?

Well next time it will, it will I put your feet up so excuse me so yeah I did it. I quite enjoyed it. It was quite exciting one time when they said to me, will you come down to the airport? I went, oh.

They said, we'll meet you at Gatwick Airport. Bring your passport. I went, this is interesting. Now we're going to find some stuff out. So I turned up at the airport with all my bags going. Where are we going? They went, Glasgow. And you'd packed your shorts.

Oh, yeah. I was ready to go another time. How are you? How's life? How's it feeling with the new cookbook coming out? That's been great. I mean, a baking book. Sorry.

Do you not call them cookbooks? No. Baking book. It's called Bake Darling. There's cooks and chefs and bakers. The bakers are a different breed. We are a different breed. I think you are because we're not bakers.

We know that. But are you quite cliquey as a bunch? The bakers? When I was working in the hotels, I think we can be. It was really funny when I was working at the Dorchester because they classed me as head baker but they put me in. I could dress like a sous chef or a senior sous chef, so I could wear a bigger hat.

And I had more vents under my armpits and I could wear a watch and two towels. And it's a very class. Yeah, in the big kitchens, it always was. And this was back in the late 80s, 90s when I was working at the Dorchester. So they had to put my title into the grid. So there was a communication chart so we could all talk to each other. So a commie couldn't walk straight in and talk to one of my lads. He'd have to go through me to go through the journey command.

Oh my goodness. It was ridiculous. Kind of bonkers. Did you quite enjoy it though? No. No? No, it grated on me a lot. Right.

I was always there first thing in the morning two o'clock in the morning i was going to work so i lived in kensington uh queensgate terrace it was near the back of the um near coys yeah i lived on that i had a little balcony which is very amazing and i used to walk to work at two o'clock in the morning. Go up, that's the Albert Memorial, up along Kensington, across the Doge. Occasionally I'd cut through the park. But I quite liked that walk in the morning. It was quite nice.

Right, so let's start from the beginning. Okay, let's start from the beginning. You're born in Liverpool? No. Well, yeah, originally from that area. Yeah, but we moved to the posh area. What, Birkenhead? Across the water, Birkenhead, yeah. Oh, right. Isn't the Wirral pos area. Yeah. But we moved to the posh area. What, Burkina Faso? Across the water, Burkina Faso.

Oh, right. Isn't the Wirral posh? Yeah. It's sort of split, really. Yeah. You have a posh side and a not so posh side. I think the Wirral's a really difficult, it's a really difficult area, the Wirral.

And it's an issue because it used to be part of Cheshire, then it was part of Merseyside, and now it's gone back to the Wirral. And the problem is a lot of money's been ploughed into Liverpool because of the poverty and work, et cetera, and none went into the Wirral. So you've got the sort of north coast of it, the Rock Ferry, Ellesmere Port, going all the way down there,

which needs investment. And I'm from Wallasey, which, again, has got all the shops that I grew up with, like John Menzies and Debenhams. They've all gone. They've all gone. There's nothing there. And it's like Scooby-Doo.

And you go in there and you see a Scooby-Doo cartoon and then just repeat. It's like a repeat of all the same shops all the time. And it's a shame because I don't recognise the place I grew up. Because I used to go into Wallasey all the time. I was 17, 18. I was living around there you know into Wallasey all the time it was I was right 17, 18

I was living around there I still go up there all the time I was there last week catching up with mum okay so let's take it back to the dinner table in Liverpool yeah

you've got a mum dad and two and how many brothers I've got two brothers two brothers yeah and who was the cook and who was the

baker in your house? There's no cooks in the house. They're all bloody awful. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. My mum hated cooking. Mum and Dad got divorced when I was ten. My dad, well, he didn't really cook. My mum was terrible. Really? Oh, yeah. Well, she'd be upset if she hears this. Oh, no. She hates cooking.

I remember coming back from school saying, what's for dinner? She'd go and look in the freezer and it was basically like that. She did do a decent roast though, I'll give her that. A roast on a Sunday

was alright. And you still love her? You see I could have done that Jessie and it would have been alright. I couldn't discern her because she was

a terrible cook. She was a decent baker at pastry, it was good. So I was going to say it wasn't an incentive to start baking because your mum was...

Oh, God, no. ...reaching for the freezer all the time. No. Did she ever make, like, steak pies or things like that? No. So she could bake. She'd do an apple pie, mean apple pie. Yeah.

And ginger biscuits, she used to make a lot. They were famous. In fact, I put them in a couple of my books, and Tom Kerridge even started using them, and he said, they're great. So what's the key? Well, basically, it's just all soft. It's all the golden syrup and everything in a bowl. Bring it out, bit of flour and then shape them and put on a tray and bake them.

That's it. But they're so simple. But they're more cookie-like. If you leave them in the oven a little bit longer, they'll crack and they'll look like ginger nuts. You don't want the snap. No, there is a slight crisp and then just as it hits your mouth, there's a bit of give.

So it's like a ninja in a teacup. It's like a marine. Is it the Peter Kay? Yeah. It's like the marine. The one with the rich tea. The rich tea just melts. But this one,

the problem when you've got a biscuit like that, it just drinks your drink. So by the time you've gone, you've had three or four of them There's no tea left Do you always dunk? Oh yeah Mary was horrified once when I dunked

I dunked a Jaffa cake It nearly fell off a chair That's a class thing there Because I'm a working class lad I'd dunk a cake I'd dunk a cro if I had I'll dunk I'll dunk a croissant I think that's quite serious

would you dunk it in tea or coffee a croissant I wouldn't dunk it in tea because tea doesn't inherently carry a lot of flavour do you dunk in coffee and in tea I tend I do but I tend to dunk more in tea.

Yeah. What's your favourite biscuit to dunk? Oh, a hobnob. A hobnob. Or a party ring. A party ring. Party rings are nice. Why? Because it was sugary. Was it Tamal or was it Liam who did a

party ring celebration like party cake in a tray? And I did it for my daughter's birthday. And it was really good. And they were all party rings at the bottom of the cake. Yeah. And it was just quite yummy. Well, the party ring, it's almost that glace icing, which I really like.

And I think it's the biscuit. It takes me back to when I was a kid. Yeah. I remember those biscuits. It's not quite malted milk. I love a malted milk. Because malted milks are nice. Nice are a joke. I don't know why they call them a biscuit. What? You don't like milk. I love a malted milk. Because malted milks are nice. Knees are a joke.

I don't know why they call them a biscuit. What, you don't like them? I love them, but as soon as you put them near a cup of tea, they're full and in. My father-in-law has to start the day with, I think it's two to four ginger biscuits. And he gets like, it's like his way to start. He can't function without them. Ginger's really good for the stomach. What, do you think a ginger biscuit is though?

No, ginger itself. Yeah, no, I know, but ginger biscuits. If you've got a heavily gingered biscuit, why not? I like it with... Maybe I should make your mum's one. Stem ginger. Are there any ginger biscuits in your cook? Yeah, there are actually, yeah.

And you see, I like stem ginger with ginger. I think if you're using ground ginger and then add in stem ginger, it's delicious. Stem ginger's great. delicious. It is like cookie. Half inch thick. Oh Paul, I feel like we've got so much to get through and I'm not even a fucking baker so I'm just thrilled.

Oh, hold on. What's burning? What are you cooking? Mind your own business. What are you cooking? I have made a Jewish meal. Okay. I've done chicken soup with matzo balls.

We said that you were expecting food. We weren't sure whether you've eaten lots of matzo balls. I have. Jamie Oliver said mine were the best he'd ever tasted. Nice. We never know that it's going to be the same today. I've done salt beef with potato kugel. Oh dear, haven't you?

Oh, do you not like that? What? Are you that? What? Are you vegetarian? What's the matter? I'm joking. Oh, right, okay, fine. Fuck, I nearly died there. I was going to get a car.

I've done, so I've done salt beef with a potato pudding. And then I've chanced my luck, Paul. I've made a tartnemonde. Because I thought, I can't go wrong here. If it's crap, we could have a laugh. And if it's good, I'll get the handshake. So we'll see. Have you got custard

with that? Do you want me to make custard? I'm a northern bloke. I think we've got birds custard. That's fine. I don't mind. I'll have a tin. Wow, this is very interesting that you're demanding. You haven't even finished your G&T and you're demanding custard with your pud. I think a pudding, a good pudding needs a custard.

It's like Christmas, you know, Christmas pudding. Yeah. Christmas pudding has to have custard. No, no, bro. No, cream. Oh, yeah. No, custard. Brandy cream.

No. Bit of both? That's where you're from the south aren't you yeah that's where it is okay I'd swim in

swim in a bath of custard me now listen I've just come from mixing my new record yeah

and my lovely mix engineer Dan Grett I was like there's gorgeous smells in this studio it's not marijuana it's not you know um it near Dan Gret. I was like, there's gorgeous smells in this studio.

It's not marijuana, it's not, you know. It was freshly baked bread. So, I stole it from him. What, the bread? Yeah, for you to market. Because I just thought, why not? He's given me his score

of what he thinks it should be. He's a bit worried it's a bit underdone, but I'd like you to cut through and you're going to rate it. So you've got two dishes to rate tonight. Well, you've got four, but you know. Two are bakes. I was baking, I brought out a loaf this morning.

I bake a lot at home, to be honest. What are you baking? Sourdough, or are you baking... This morning I did a no-knead bread, because I haven't made one for ages you baking no this morning i did a no-knead bread because i've made them for ages and i wanted to make one a no-knead bread so you don't need it so but no you don't do anything it's literally nature does everything and it's the most beautiful bread you'll ever have is it in the new cookbook by a bait book there's a similar one as the baguette but it's not in this one but basically it's flour uh you mix flour, water, salt and yeast.

Only two grams of yeast. I'm frightened of yeast. Why? I don't know. You had a fight with one? I was frightened of gelatine, but I've made a few good panna cottas in it, and I'm not so frightened. But I'm just frightened of using it. Like an agent. I'm not confident.

When you say yeast, are you talking about the fresh stuff or the... Anything. Do you use fresh or dry? Do you know what? For 17 years professionally i used fresh and now i use the instant stuff because when i was in cyprus and i was in med because fresh it doesn't last it was all fresh it was all the powdered stuff and i just flipped everything over to that it's just easier it doesn't stink your fridge where do you get fresh you go to the supermarkets now they sell them i don? Just don't buy it. Use the instant stuff.

It doesn't stink your cupboards out. It lasts longer than the fresh stuff, and it's just easier to get hold of. But have you got a proving oven? No, I don't need one of those. What is your kitchen set up? Oh, it's terrible. It's mine.

You couldn't swing a cat. Really? It's like 30 foot by, well, let's say, no, 20 foot by 8 foot wide. So it's a galley kitchen. Sort of, yeah. So are you a very clean chef? Yeah. Because you've been working in the kitchens.

Yeah, I don't, I'll be brushing up as well. So you've made a no-knead bread this morning. Yeah, yeah, I brought one out. Did it just come on you? You think, oh, I'll just make a loaf this morning? Yeah, well, I did a sack of tortes, and I did a chocolate fudge cake, and I did a New York cheesecake with brownie and vanilla. When was this?

That was a couple of days ago. For any particular reason? I was just trying a few things out. Why didn't you bloody bring one, Paul? A sack of tortes on everybody's face. Oh, I wanted to know, how do you keep so slim? Are you joking? No, I think...

I'm not slim. Well, you're not thin, but I wouldn't say... Mum, you just stroked and slapped Paul. No, no. I'm not like professional fat. No, you're not. I'm sort of in the middle. No, you're not fat.

You look great, Paul. You look great. You look gorgeous. But is it a worry when you have to eat all those cakes? And do you love cake? I hate cake. You don't. No, of course I don't hate cake.

I mean, I don't mind cake. I prefer puddings, to be honest. I prefer, you know, like steamed puddings and anything with custard I'm really into. Cakes. Do you know what? On Bake Off, we all, and that includes Mel, Sue, Mary, and Noel, Matt, and Prue, we all prefer savoury. All of us.

Every time I go, oh, no, it's cake. Not so really. And so by the end of it, I'm leaving in the car to go home, and I'll have to pull into a fast food chain and go and suck on some salty chips because it's so, I've had this sweet overload. Clawing the sweetness. some salty chips because it's so,

I've had this sweet day. Cloying the sweetness. Desperate Paul Hollywood in like chatting, service stations in Maccy D's with a salty chip. Just pull over and suck on a chip. And I'll feel better. It's just because all day all I've had is sugar. I don't know, it's horrible. You're going to get fired after that.

No, he's not. No, no. Anything in moderation is fine. What was your first star bake that you remember that you were like wow i'm really good at baking still waiting for it i think oh come on oh stop it i suppose when i joined my dad's business because he had a chain of bakeries up the east coast and ended up taking over his shop in liverpool where i went to go and work for the first time professionally with whites on and going into work and then i picked it up really quickly really quickly you know scaling i was i became really

quick and what oven work was scaling scaling is cutting dough up into pieces so you can shape it and then put it in the tin or whatever you're going to do with it and um i was i was good at it i was quick um and i picked it up very quickly i suppose growing up i was like a saturday lad in my dad's shops brushing up the floor um and literally my dad said if you're going to join the industry you're going to start from the bottom i literally did i started in the toilets and it was disgusting you know mopping up the loos and smell. I go, Jesus, this guy, what? But he did it deliberately because I was the boss's son as well. So I had to learn literally everything.

But I suppose when you're bringing out donuts and initially you're bringing them out of the oven, you're going, or the fryer, you're going, they look amazing. And then you start to coat them in sugar. Then you inject them with the machine whether it's electric one or not i love the manual one we used to pierce them and then literally both sides there was a handle you go it's quite a manual thing and then we used to do like a jam bomb some of my brothers came in i just inject this thing so it was about to explode and then pass it to him and he'd take a bite out of it literally go everywhere

um but i think though anything that came out of it literally go everywhere um but i think though anything that came out the oven i was so proud but there was one there was one time i remember taking over lincoln shop the head baker hadn't turned in for work for whatever reason and i i was working on my own and i wasn't meant to be working on my own but i thought i opened up the shop started to kicked off the ovens fill the shop with the cakes and the pastries and the pies and everything else for for the um the shop staff when they came in at eight o'clock and I started putting them all on the shelves so the baker's job is to cool the bread lay them all out get it all ready and I remember at the end of that day I remember phoning my dad up saying he hasn't turned up all right okay I'll come down he never did I remember I was I was very proud of that day of myself I thought I'm a baker now

I didn't realize what I'd learned over the couple of years months that I've been doing it but I remember walking out the shop and looking back and looking at everything in the shop it wasn't burnt it was perfect it was the right color it was golden brown it was the right colour, it was golden brown it was glistening, the bread was all beautifully cracked and splintered and I went, oh yeah yeah, and I remember walking out with a big smile on my face. And did your dad ever see that? No, I don't think he turned up How old were you?

Probably 18 So, did you leave school? No, well yeah in those days Those days? You were about 12 12 what do you mean those days i couldn't get out i couldn't get out of school fast enough really i went to art school because i followed my mum first my mum was a very arty it's like a hippie straight out of the 60s move on poncho the whole lot you know and um she she when i'm growing, she used to do a lot of work from home because she had three lads.

And she used to do, remember the old peppy wear rabbits and David Winter cottages, these beautiful models that you get with the soft velvet base, the models, all beautifully made. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were like models. Yeah, they were beautiful cottages. Some of them are rabbits. It was like ornaments. They were like civilian fabrics. Yes, no, they were made out of pottery. Yeah, they were pottery.

They were all cast. And she used to paint them at home. Cases of them. I remember arriving, growing up and going, it's like you work for the sweet mum. She'd go, yeah. And then she'd sit there and then she'd start painting all the rabbits.

And she did. She was great with a paintbrush from her mum. Great painter. And so I remember for hours, she'd have this light on. She'd be painting all this. And she loved it. She quite seemed to like it. How old is she now?

How old is her mum now? Nearly 80. Were you well-behaved boys? No. I wasn't. I suppose I think I reacted badly to my mum and dad's divorce. So initially I was quite a good boy. I had a big operation when I was 10.

I had appendicitis that got pneumonia at the same time. I was in hospital for quite a bit when I was 10. I hated hospitals because the scar, they had to manually open every day and it got infected. Oh my God. And then stuff bandages in every day for six months. And I remember the pain was excruciating. And I sort of got used to the pain,

but then I was thrown back into school again. And I remember I was a prefect. But I remember the first job, I was a milk monitor. So I was a milk monitor first. It was lovely being a milk monitor. Which was great because you can have an extra bit of milk. And the bottles were, you know, that big. For them, it was lovely being milk monitor. Which was great because you can have an extra bit of milk. And the bottles were only that big. For them, it was like that big then.

And then I became a form captain. And then I was a prefect. So you were doing really well. I was all right at school. And then when my dad got divorced, when I left my middle school, I went to a comprehensive school. And they stuck me in band two, which was CSE. So then you study CSE what's CSE CSE was not not GC not O levels GCE was O levels CSE was the one that is why did they why did they

put you in that because I didn't care I didn't revise they didn't do anything were your parents pissed off well I don't know I, my last report was pretty bad. So they put me in band two. And so when I started in my comprehensive scores in band two, after the first term, I remember my dad talking to me. He said, I'll give you whatever, five pounds for every A that you get on your report. So at the end of the first term, I got my report, and it was straight A's across the board and I got a call from the

housemaster Mr. Lovely Ironically, and then I went to go and see him and he said I sit down We're gonna move you up to band one to GC's you're gonna be doing no levels from now on in so we're gonna move your Class you're in the wrong band rights to move me up to band one. So that's, I changed. Straight A's, my dad had to cough up a load of money. And then I stayed there. I really didn't care.

I was a bit of a joker. So you were academic, but you just, you could do it, but you just didn't want to. I only, I start, I did a Mensa test when I left school. Oh, fuck off. Are you Sharon Stone? No, I did a Mensa test. Because left school. Oh, fuck off. Are you Sharon Stone? No, I did a Mensa test. Yeah.

Because I saw this thing in the newspaper, like a little Sudoku. It was on Sudoku. I haven't even come out yet. Yeah. And I saw these 40 questions, and they said if you can do them in less than 40 minutes, you need to send off for this test.

So I was doing all these things, and then you have to go, you have to send it away. And then I got a letter back saying, would you like to take a test? Your percentage was high. And I said, yeah, okay. But you have to have a teacher to sign it. So my next door neighbor was a teacher, and I said, can you time me on this?

So I had to go and do this time thing. And then I was in the top 2%. Wow. Yeah, I knew you were a clever. Yeah, but that's weird. No, it's not weird. Because in school, I ended up with one O-level. That's because you didn't apply yourself.

Do you regret not trying harder at school? Yeah. In fact, so much so, about 10 years ago, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, a barrister. And so I... You'd be good. I looked into it, and I had to do a lawyer a barrister and so I good I went I looked into it and I had to do humanities because I had no qualifications I had to do humanities course first then do law basic law and then do the bar conversion yeah I thought it's too much and I thought I couldn't I was working I had business to run and I just didn't have the time to do it

so I'm fascinated with to challenge myself sometimes with that. I still do Sudokus and all that stuff now. Have you got children? I have a boy, yeah, Josh. How old is he? He's 21 now. Is he clever? Yeah. Is he going to be a baker? He's into media. So he's

in media studies at the moment. Whether he wants to be in front or behind the camera is down to him really. How do you feel being in front or behind the camera is down to him really. How do you feel being in front of the camera? Don't like it. You don't like it? The benefits are great. Yeah. Like what?

The downside is horrible. The benefit, the money. Okay. The fame, I believe that. How does the fame affect you day to day? I'm quite a shy person. Yeah, because I remember when I met you at Jonathan Ross,

I felt like you were quite reserved and shy. You were being, I met you at Jonathan Ross I felt like you were quite reserved and shy you were being I mean look Jonathan Ross is the big uh my chair is very squeaky um Jonathan Ross is the big personality and you kind of you know it's I know Jonathan so I feel comfortable with Jonathan but I felt like you were quite quiet yeah but when you're comfortable is that when you're quiet well no when I'm comfortable then I'm okay I'll open up a bit it's just that I was I was brought up uh in a very church environment and I was the quietest one of my two brothers for sure my mum would have said out of the three of you there's no way you were going to go on and do what you do and I said no I'd agree with your mum

because I was quite a quiet person quite quite solitary. I enjoyed my own company. I didn't have a problem with that. And so I find it difficult to deal with cities. And ironically, when I did the series City Bakes, that was the weirdest thing for me to do because I was in all these big cities talking to people. And it's fine. Yeah, it's really weird with lots of people. If they didn't know me i was really good if i met somebody i can i can get them smiling normally within 30 seconds to a minute

we'll be smiling together i think a smile is the start that's the that's the conduit to open up a conversation i think once you get someone smiling then you're all right you're okay but i was always quite reserved quite quiet quite shy so the the benefits of fame is obviously monetary. So from that point of view, you think, okay, I'm making a few quid now, more than I was before when I was slogging my guts out at two o'clock every morning. Professionally, my CV is very, very good. And then this came along.

How did you get into bit? What happened? How did it start? You were at the Dorchester. I was at the Dorchester. I'd done Cliveden as well. I was at Cliveden for a while. Then I was off.

Remember, I was offered a job at Claridge's and Tuton Glen were after me as well. And there was a few people after me. Lanesborough. Paul Gaylor was after me. Because your cakes are fabulous. I was good at what I did. My CV was very good. And I thought, OK, this is interesting.

I'm going to get into this industry. To go into hotels, doing what I do, was unusual. Normally, you're working in the high street doing your normal stuff. But I wanted to better myself. I wanted to learn more. So I basically read a lot. Got a lot of recipes. Tried them in work.

See if they worked. See if they didn't. And then tried something else. Because no one taught me. That's the thing. No one taught me. I never had someone above me teaching me. So you literally went into your dad's bakery

and that was like how you learned? I learned the basics and then after that I taught myself. So it was a case of sort of picking up stuff and learning, listening to people, watching, working with professionals in the industry. French guys taught me croissant. Francois Cachier, the chef at the Dorchester was just amazing at croissant.

I remember working with him and just watching him and going, that's interesting. It's all about ingredients. It's all about your ingredients when you're baking. Good ingredients in, the end product is very good. So professionally, I was really good. But the TV, when I was in Cyprus for six years, the TV company, Thame Prince,

used to be the food critic for the Telegraph years ago, writer. And she used to have a cookery school in Ulbricht in Suffolk. She was an amazing chef and a great teacher actually. And I met her and she invited me onto her programme. So I went on the programme, dabbled in it. She goes, you should do some more TV when you get back to the UK.

I was like, okay. Did you enjoy it? I enjoyed the evangelical side of things, which was the, I think when you start off, I'm going to hmm, okay. Did you enjoy it? I enjoyed the evangelical side of things, which was the, I think, when you start off, I'm going to become really famous. I was thinking, hmm, what car is going to buy? I wasn't thinking of the fame side of things. I was thinking of the monetary.

Oh, that'll be all right. That'll be interesting. So eventually when I started into the business, I came back to the UK and then signed with an agent and then did a series with james martin and then i did uh uh usual if it was cool so i did the first half he did the second off and it was quite successful and then he asked me to do it in my own series so i did another one and then i i wrote a book 100 great breads which was great I really enjoyed that was a big thing actually my first book

I never thought I'd even know it because we were approaching channels saying we've got this idea for a baking show they go

oh it's your idea no no no Bake Off wasn't just a baking program they're going it's a bit niche baking we're not sure it'll work

and I go no but there's loads of chefs out there but there's hardly any bakers so why can't you just concentrate on but you know it's a bit niche so I had the door slammed in my face like for years so I just concentrated on my business I was supplying waitrose and harrods

and stuff with bits and then out the blue bake-off turned up on the doorstep for an audition so they turned up with a film camera with a young uh whose idea was it then? Well, it was definitely Anna's. Anna Beatty. Anna Beatty and the production team of Love had the idea, took it to many channels who all turned it down. Then Emma Willis from BBC put her neck on the line and said, yeah, let's give it a go on BBC Two at 8 o'clock on a Tuesday. We'll give it a little show.

I think it's one of the best programmes in the world. It's been amazing. Jessie, I realise I haven't made the cucumber salad. What? I'm leaving. What? We all have to have a meal. I'd rather it didn't have any salad to be honest.

I like to dodge salads. I've done a winter cold slaw. Oh, well we'll find them. Okay, then. You know what? Mum's about to bring out the chicken soup and we would usually obviously do this with challah bread. I don't think you've got a challah, but I feel like maybe this is the time to mark Dan's

sourdough. So hold on a minute. Okay, bring it over. Dan Gretz, mix engineer, producer extraordinaire's sourdough that I stole off him. Nice banneton. Now, what do you think of the... Looks good. He's used a banneton.

When was it made? Yesterday? No, it was made today. Ah, good. Have you got any butter? Yep. Come on, let's see. This is... Okay, don't worry about mum's bread knife. Just give it some welly. You probably not even got the bread knife, honey.

Within a minute. Oh, we've got some perches. I'm going to buy you a set of knives. It's not it's not you my friend. This is the knife. I've never my mum used to have a knife like that. This is not the right knife. And I know that you've not got the right knife. Hold on a minute.

Let me get. What do we think? It's very good. Very good. Lovely stroke. It needs a little bit longer proving. Okay longer. Well he was busy mixing my album so we'll forgive him on that.

You're not going to do wait a minute. I'm going to do a little bit longer. I'm going to do a little bit longer. I'm going to do a little bit longer. I'm going to do a little bit longer. I'm going story needs a little bit longer pre-wet okay longer well he was busy mixing my album so we'll forgive him on that okay

now you're not going right in the middle you're using the end bit now oh the best bit oh is it yeah crusty bit

okay hold on he's just giving his critique it's quite dramatic the pause isn't it because he's eating. But it looks quite tough.

Hang on, hang on. He's offering me out for a fight. Come on, what do we think? It's quite tough. It looks tough. I think it's been... I don't know whether he covered it up when it was rising. Over-proved, probably, yeah.

And when he proved it the second time and he tipped it out, because he's probably got a slight crust on it that looks quite nice and chewy oh yeah, blip bubbles with that hang on I think you're being a bit harsh to be honest it's delicious

how have they brought you up to bring the butter up like that I don't think Port Hollywood cares Jesus Christ Jesus so you're saying that the crust is tough? It's too tough. Bit of water in the oven. Bit more water.

You probably put a little bit in. Needs a bit more. Just to lighten up that crust a little bit more. Good taste though, Dan. Thank you very much. To be honest, yeah, it's a fantastic taste. And a little bit more proven. Just a little bit more proven.

All right. Good. Could you move it, please? And the new bread knife. I'll get you a kitchen knife. Thank you, darling. Could you move it please? And the new bread knife. I'll get you a new kitchen knife. Thank you darling. Thank you very much Paul.

Probably thrilled with that. Tastes great though. Yeah, great. You might need a bit of salt, but I think the flavour's okay. I'll leave it to the chef with the salt. That's delicious. That's happy food. Yeah.

The matzo ball, what do you think? Yeah, you see? Exactly. Really good. Yeah. You can have another matzo ball if you want. I would have brought you some flatbread. I can make one for you now if you've got any flour. Oh, really?

Yeah. Mum, I feel like we've got to let him do that. Plain flour? No, strong flour. I don't know what strong flour is. What? I don't have strong flour. How many flours have you got?

Two. Self-raising. Self-raising and plain. Oh, God. I don't bake. Well, you need to. Why? What flour did you use for the crust? So I can sit and get fatter.

You're kidding. You're not fat. You're beautiful. Thank you, darling. Make a Christmas pudding. I wasn't going for that look I didn't think Audrey Hepburn did either I love Christmas pudding

Good So I'm just worried about your crust now I'm worried about your crust Did you use just normal flour? Which crust? Should she have used strong flour for her crust? No, I used what the lady said in the recipe.

For what? For my tart. Oh, that's fine. My tart. That's fine, you don't need strong flour for that. I want to know, when you were working in the hotels, were you able to sample the sav food oh yeah or was it very much like hands off that's for the guests i shouldn't tell you this because i know no one

when i was working at the uh chester grove no he's to wait for jacob westminster and i was allowed to take a loaf home from the hotel because i was the baker i had to be honest i was skins i used i used to go home in the evening and my best meal ever was if I had the money, because it was 85 pence, was fried rice, chips and curry sauce from the Chinese down the road

and it was the best dinner to have. Where's curry sauce in London? It wasn't in London, it was in Chester. Oh, Chester. So I lived in staff accommodation in my little flat and I'd go I paid down

the side of the sofa and I found enough money to go down to the Chippy to go and get my fried rice chips

and curry and it was it was like a thing then I still do it now I still do it now where are you finding curry sauce in South

your making good question no no no most of the Chinese are you finding curry sauce in the South? You'll make it. Good question. No, no, no. Most of the Chinese restaurants now have curry sauce. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. And a lot of chippies do, obviously. Chippies do, but the chippies don't do fried rice.

So you have to go to a Chinese, and they do do curry. Honestly, anybody listening to this, right, go and get a, you can feed five people, get a big portion of chips. Yeah. Big portion of fried rice, load of curry sauce and just split it amongst all of you. And you'll thank me for it afterwards. So yeah, in answer to my question, you weren't interested in the posh stuff? I'll come back to the story about the bread.

Okay. So because I was skimmed, and I had to take one of my breads home, and the chef would say, he had security on the gate, and he'd say, he's allowed to take a loaf home. And I said, thank you, because that's all I had in the house, to be honest.

So I'd take the loaf, but I'd also stash a big steak inside it and haul it away hollow it out. So when I get to security, I go, they go, what have you got there Paul? I go, oh, I got me a nice one. Go on mate. He smuggled.

Yeah, a steak out. So yeah, I did have the odd occasional food. You see, I worked at night and I was on my own. And so I wanted something to eat. I was hungry. No one was there to cook me food. Oh wow. Where's the cucumber salad?

Have we got gherkins, Mum? I have. Shall I get some mustard? Oh, thank God. We're all right then. We're safe. Don't worry about it. I haven't had salt beef for about eight years.

Seven years. Seven years now. Delicious, thank you. Help yourself. Now, you need to tell us your last supper, now you need to tell us your last supper which would be a starter a main, a pud

and a drink of choice think about this prawn cocktail for sure straight from Bernie Inn do you remember Bernie Inn? she's not northern so Bernie Inn

prawn cocktail in a cocktail glass, obviously. Lovely. And then main course, anything with mince. Do you like avocado with your prawn cocktail? That's a bit... Take it or leave it? Yeah, that's not the proper one. Fancy pants.

So mint. Do you like it with... Melon's quite nice with it. Do you like it with brown bread? Oh, yeah. Yeah. With the crust cut off as well. Yeah.

Little triangle. I don't want a square. I want a triangle. Right. Mints. Anything with mints. What like spag bol? Spag bol. Lasagna. I make a beautiful fajitas with guacamole. With my own guacamole

and sour cream and cheese. And I make mints to put inside it. It's delicious, and every time my friends come down, no, that's a cook thing, isn't it? Okay.

I don't put anything like that in there, to keep it baking, and then, when my friends come down, they always ask me for the same thing, and then, also you've got, I mean,

things, something like a cottage pie, love cottage pie. Oh no, I'm sorry, you lost me. Anything with mince, I don't get cottage pie, don't get shepherd's pie, don't get it. Oh, I quite like it. Oh, I love sorry. You lost me. Anything with mince. Don't get cottage pie. Don't get

shepherd's pie. Don't get it. Oh, I quite like it. Oh, I love it. No, it's bland. Don't get it. Needs so much pickle to go with it. Yeah, we do. We have Branston. Branston pickle with it. How do you take yours? In what? No, you have it on the side with your shepherd's pie

to zing it up. Jesse, do you want some? No? No? No. Try it. I put a little bit of Worcester in my mince though. That's still not going to be enough. Really? Try pickle on the side.

I don't like pickle. But I put baked beans in mine. Yeah, yeah, I've done that. I've done sweetcorn. I've done sweetcorn on this side, man, as well. Sweetcorn's really nice. All right, and then pudding. Now I'm very interested.

I'm surprised you didn't go for three puds, to be honest, poor Hollywood. Bread and butter pudding. Okay. The poor Hollywood way. I've got that sodding pan of Tony. No, don't. Why would you do it when he's the king?

Can I take two? You can take four. That's nothing there. Will you take the big ones? I'm on a diet at the moment. No, have a bit. This is the guy that had a Sasha tour yesterday. Please take a proper bit.

I shared that with all the builders at the house. They must love working for you. They've had cheesecake, New York cheesecake with a brownie mix laced to it. They've had chocolate sac a tort. They've had bread and butter pudding. They've had ridiculous amounts of cake. Do you want me to do it for you?

Yeah, go on. That's fine. Can I have American mustard? Yeah, it's up there. Did we go for your drink of choice? No. What are we going for? A pina colada. Nipple deep in a pool.

Oh boy, I love it. I love it. You and Amol Rajan are the only people that have chosen a pina colada. I like a pina colada yeah so come on tell me about Kent should we all move to Kent

it seems like all the scouts are there no because there'll be too many people no I don't there'll be too many people where's your local shops can you shout out

any good places online yeah you see that's what happens when you move but there's loads of farmers markets and the village shops so the village shop the you leave but there's loads of farmers markets and the village shop

so the village shop the village post office there's a farmer shop just up the road farm shop up the road there's two farm shops I go to

do they quake in their boots when they see you coming they're used to me now and does any of your like your other half or like anybody that

knows you very well when you go out for dinner with them do they kind of roll their eyes when the dessert comes because with them do they kind of roll their eyes when the dessert comes because you're going to kind of tap it you're going to smell it you're going to do well i tend to anyway i mean if if there's a bread roll there or something normally you always tap it i've been i've been to i love going out for meals i love it you know and if

it's quite stick me in i just stick me in the corner it's fine and i'll just sit in the ground i'll be back to everybody, just staring at a wall. Tapping the bed. Just tapping the bottom of the bed. But no, I... No panicking. I like dining out, I like food.

And there's nothing better than cooking, so thank you very much for my meal tonight. Sorry it was a bit salty. It's fine. I was about to have a sweet talk. It just makes you drink more. You can help me with getting this bugger out. Out the tin?

Yeah. Okay, have you got a cup? A cup? Have you got a loose bottom base? Yeah. But I kept that out so I could do it. How long did you bake it for? 40 minutes.

Does that look a bit sad? Was it turned on? Oh, piss off! Oh, what a fucking cheat! I think he's, well, here we go. It's not supposed to be done. on oh what a fucking cheek i think he's well here we go here we go guys if it's i think it's cut well we'll find out in a minute from hollywood baked sorry do you do you like this power that you there's no this isn't a power this is only in your head come on it's only a power that you hold. This isn't a power. This is only in your head. Oh, come on. It's only a power if you allow it to be.

It's not a power. Of course it's not. If you're trying to help someone bake it, the only way they learn is by telling them the truth. If you go to someone's house and if someone makes you a cake, you're always going to say that's amazing. Yeah. Even when it isn't because someone's made you a cake.

But if you want that cake to be better or they want to get better, if you say, tell them the truth, actually have a slight soggy bottom and you need to bake it for another five minutes and lighten it up with a bit of sour cream

and they go, oh, and then the next time you come back, they go, look at this. And all of a sudden, they're on a journey

of things get better and better. I'm never coming on that. Otherwise, you're stuck. I'll be out. Otherwise, you just carry on going round and round

and round in the same circle. I think... I'm not making custard pool. Felly, byddwch chi'n gweithio. Felly, byddwch chi'n cymryd y cyfan. Felly, byddwch chi'n cymryd y cyfan. Felly, byddwch chi'n cymryd y cyfan. Dwi ddim yn gwneud cwstard, Paul. Dwi ddim yn gwneud cwstard, Paul. Dwi ddim yn gwneud cwstard, Paul. Dwi'n meddwl bod hi'n sgwyd, Mam. Dwi'n meddwl bod hi'n sgwyd, Mam. Dwi'n meddwl bod hi'n sgwyd, Mam.

Ond beth allaf i ei wneud? Roeddwn i wedi gwneud y gwasanaeth. Ond beth allaf i fi ei wneud? Roeddwn i wedi gwneud y gwasanaeth. Ond beth allaf i fi ei wneud? Roeddwn i wedi gwneud y gwasanaeth. Ond beth allaf i fi ei wneud? Roeddwn i wedi gwneud y gwasanaeth. I do, I did the recipe. Yeah, but when the recipe says something, they're relying on the fact that they make it in their oven at a certain rate, but your oven might be slightly different. But how are you supposed to know the colour? Yeah, you can tell by the colour, which is why I said you probably need another five, ten minutes. Oh, look, that is soggy, very soggy bottom.

Don't look at me like that, darling. I did say, but you told me to piss off look at me like that, darling. I did say. But you told me to piss off. Yeah, but you couldn't put it back in. It had been in 45 minutes. Yeah, I know. And it said 35 minutes. I know.

Listen, it'll still taste amazing. Would you still eat a bit of a shit bake? You'd still eat a bit of a shit bake? I'm going to do it now. Cheeky sod Let's see Let's see if we can cover up this dampness It's kind of odd You're brutal

I don't think this is my favourite recipe I don't know why you didn't do something that you knew how to do Bakewell tart? Jessica Do you like Bakewell tart? No Here, try It's a bit like a quiche do something that you knew how to do. Bakewell tart? Jessica. Do you like Bakewell tart? No. Here, try. It's a bit like a quiche.

Well that's, I followed the recipe, tart no monde. I won't do it again. It's quite hard at the bottom though, it's not soggy. Paul, what's your verdict? I think the base what temperature did you bake it at 180

180 fan or non-fan it needs almost a bit of almond in there I was going to put amaretto in amaretto would have been nice better than calvados or a frangipane frangipane in there would have been really nice

and then the custard on the top and the frangipane would have brought that almond flavor that kick of armor because it's a bit a non-entity there's a there's um say what you say it's it's it's not strong enough the flavor the apple's lost its way and that you you're losing flavor with it but i did exactly what she said absolutely it. It's not your fault. I can tell you a good baker, but it is a shit recipe. You're better than this, Mum. I'm going to have to come back. Yeah, there you go.

Paul Hollywood, thank you for being such a good sport. It's been such a pleasure having you. You now have two hours to digest until you're back in your comfort of your own home. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Thank you so much for inviting me. How are you getting back in your comfort of your own home. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. Thank you so much for inviting me. How are you getting back?

I'm walking to Benhoff. Well, you know what? I thought Paul would be a little bit more reserved than that. He was such good fun. We had loads of laughs. He flirted with you, Mum. He acknowledged his beautiful eyes. Really, really good fun, Mum.

I knew he would be. He said he'd sort you out if you went on Celebrity Bake Off. I know, he said he'd sort you out too. I'm absolutely not doing it. Not doing it. Well, clearly I can't bake, can I? But you know what? His book actually looks reasonably unintimidating.

I may attempt some bakes. That's what I shall be doing this weekend. I really, really enjoyed it. That is what the podcast is about when you meet somebody that you want to meet and it goes in an unexpected way and we're having a right why was it unexpected i just knew that he was going to be good fun i don't know i just thought you think he was going to be arsy because of his i don't think it was going to be arsy i just thought maybe he wouldn't give us as much as he gave us. And I think he was incredibly open and had really amazing anecdotes.

Yeah. Had really good opinions on everything, even if I agree with him or not. And was kind of quite self-effacing as well. Obviously very intelligent. Yeah. Well, clearly now we know his Mensa score. Yeah. Thank you, Paul Hollywood, for schlepping here.

I mean, I feel like he's going to a pub in Kent to potentially discuss your soggy bot. Have dessert. And hopefully he had a gorgeous time. He got the tea towel. Jessie, I have to say, the amount of effort that went into that dinner, and I thought the salt beef was so salty.

It was very salty. I've never had it as salty as that. Me neither. Why is that? No, you don't even put salt in. And I brought it to the boil twice to get the salt off, the brine off it. I don't know why it was so salty. The smaller bit wasn't as salty as the bigger bit for some reason. Which bit did Paul get?

He had both bits. Okay. But he'll have a desperate thirst. You won't need that salty chip on the way home. Not with my salt beef. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks to Paul Hollywood. We had such fun.

It was brilliant. And he does have the deepest, bluest eyes you've ever seen. They're piercing. They are piercing blue. You got a really good look at them. Thanks for listening we'll see you next week