Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S15 Ep 14: Marina Hyde

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

As avid followers of her column, mum & I were very excited about this weeks guest, the wonderful Marina Hyde.Marina talks to us about her upbringing and experience of boarding school, her love of schnitzel, deliberately not making friends with politicians, living in Notting Hill & her penchant for penny sweets.What a glorious evening! Her hysterical book ‘What Just Happened? Dispatches from Turbulent Times’ is out now, go and have a read. Listen to the episode HERE x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everyone, welcome to Table Manners. I'm here with my lovely daughter Jessie. Hello mum. Hi darling. Sorry, is this how it's going to go now? Yep. You're leading this one, aren't you? Yeah, because I could not be more excited. Pray do tell the listener, mum.

I have followed this person's column for almost 20 years she's so clever she's so funny she's so insightful and so incisive i hope she likes this jesse because if we appear in her column tomorrow this is like where you really watch our P's and Q's, darling. Hold your own, like you are going to nail it, mum. I'm proud of you. Well, we have got the fabulous, fantastic, clever Marina Hyde

and she's going to have something to eat with us. And I think she's going to talk about a new book. What Just Happened? Dispatches from Turbulent Times. It about a new book. What Just Happened? Dispatches from Turbulent Times. It's a huge book made up of, I wonder whether it's her favourite column moments. It's got chapters on the royal family. Well, there's a very big section on Boris Johnson.

You won't be surprised to know. I mean, there's a lot around the time of the pandemic. There's a lot about footballers. She loves football, you know that. Yeah, I know that. She writes football. And I agree with Phoebe the time of the pandemic. There's a lot about footballers. She loves football. You know that. Yeah, I know that. She writes football. And I agree with Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

Thank fuck for Marina Hyde. Yeah. Is the quote on the front. Yeah. We've got Marina Hyde coming up. This is somebody that mum has been desperate to have forever. My mother-in-law bought this for me for Christmas, actually. Did she?

Yeah. She makes you laugh out loud. Every day. She's so razor sharp. So sharp. What are you cooking, Mum? Well, because we're still madly in love with Alison Roman, I've done her spatchcock chicken.

Yeah, the one that she recommended to do. With paprika and lemon. Long schlep round the houses to get a spatchcock chicken. Where did you find it? From Moen's in the end. I've done rainbow chard and actually rainbow carrots and some smashed potatoes that I'm going to put some of the juice from the chicken on the top. That's what she recommends and bakes it off slightly. Oh, yum.

So it tastes nice, yeah. that's what she recommends and bakes it off slightly oh yeah yeah then as a tribute to my lovely friend ann who made it yesterday because i had people for lunch i've made nigella's olive oil and chocolate cake got some nice ice cream or mascarpone or even sour cream i've got crème fraiche got fresh cream got sour cream and i've got raspberries to go with it i think we'll be all right okay so we had a really interesting email from one of the listeners and i feel like it's important to share this because it's a safe space and we love getting messages so this was an email it's subject just a quick one which I really hope you get this is very important obviously hi ladies I just wanted to say that I love listening to your show

thank you very much your interview with Danny Minogue was great this week I'm from Australia so it was nice to hear the Aussie accent brilliant so far so good I need to tell you that I have a totally weird obsession with your podcast thanks and that is i love hearing you all talk with your mouths full i don't know what it is and people shouldn't talk with their mouths full do we talk with our mouths full i think you do sometimes oh my god i think i don't because i'm late okay well this lady jenny it. I don't know what it is and people shouldn't talk with their mouths full, but for some strange reason, I'm obsessed with it. This is where it gets really juicy, guys.

And we'll re-listen to interviews where I know the chewing is loudest. Yotam, Tom Kerridge, Nigella and Jamie Oliver, to name a few. They're all chefs. Are they the ones that are chewing? We need to get confirmation on this, Jenny. Is it us chewing the loudest or is it all chefs that chew the loudest? Don't think it's us chewing. It must be them.

I'm not sure if you'll get this. No, we got it loud and clear, Jenny. But I really hope you do. And please don't stop talking with your mouths full. Love to you both, Jenny. Jenny, thank you. This is by far the strangest email we've had. And I don't know whether our other listeners would agree.

And poor Alice, the producer, is so bereft with the fact that chewing a mouthful has even been caught because she tries so hard to take it off. So I now am quite intrigued. So we shouldn't wait for people. We'll just get cracky and eat right the way through the whole thing. Yeah. Is this called ASMR?

And maybe we could do a filthy Friday ep for everybody just with all the chewing and masticating. On that note, I'm going to baste my chicken. Ooh, Lenny. Marina Hyde coming up on Table Manners. Marina, you are in Clapham. I'm thrilled.

You've got the seat next to Lenny. I am actually in pride of place here. Honestly. You don't know what a big deal it is for us. I think it's a little bit of a bigger one for me. Thank you very much, girl. Don't think so. We've been so excited.

Well, I have the, because I've always followed your column, so. Very kind. Don't read any of that nonsense, but thank you. No, no, no, but I love it. And, well, I'm just going to get this out of the way. I was particularly touched last week about that column about the postal workers. Oh, my God, I keep writing about the post office. But we've got, I mean, it's the biggest thing.

It's the biggest scandal. And people just can't believe it when you tell them the story. Tell the listeners the story. The story of the post office, which I hope more and more people should get. Everyone should know. Everyone should know, was that there was sub-postmasters and postmistresses, real backbone of... Happyville Road post office.

Yeah, I mean, backbone of Britain kind of people. A new system was imposed on them in the sort of noughties by the post office central management and created by Fujitsu that was faulty. But they didn't believe the post people when they kept saying that there's a fault. They kept making them pay back out of their own pocket or threaten them to prosecute.

And in the end, because it kept going wrong, and they knew because they had so many people ringing in saying, I'm sorry, I mean, you know, I've never been wrong with my accounts ever before. And of course I haven't stolen £25,000. They prosecuted so many of them, 726. People were prosecuted. So instead of listening.

But convicted. And convicted. And people were sent to prison. Like a lady who had a baby in prison. She was sentenced on her son's 10th birthday. She never thought she'd get custodial. She was sentenced. She went to Ashfield, which is really rough.

On her son's 10th birthday, she had to be pulled out of the courtroom and taken. Oh my God. Put straight onto suicide watch. While she was there, she found a hanged body of a courtroom and taken, put straight on to suicide, which while she was there, she found a hanged body of a prisoner. Terrible things happened within the prison. She was right.

She was innocent. She was completely innocent. So what's happening? They were all completely innocent. Nothing. There is an inquiry, absolute glacial case of British justice. It's not even really actually a sort of public inquiry

that's compelled to bring certain witnesses. And the CEO of the post office while all of this is happening was a woman called Paula Venels who has yet to appear in front of public inquiry that's compelled to bring certain witnesses. And the CEO of the post office while all of this was happening was a woman called Paula Venels, who has yet to appear in front of the inquiry. And wasn't she elevated? Oh, she continued to fail upwards. You know, these people, she was given a CBE,

she was brought into some sort of number 10 kitchen business cabinet. She just continued, she was an Anglican minister. She's now had to set back from all these things. But it's the most horrendous story yeah 60 are dead before they've ever been justice served at least four have killed themselves but also the frustration you know the and these tiny towns where these post offices were shut down yeah and they've never had a post office since yeah yeah because and they had to trial because they said that that she'd stolen money it's the most extraordinary story and it should just everyone should be shouting for the rooftops if you have to think that if they trust

computers over humans then this is the sort of thing that really could happen if the system and the people who wanted not to say it was their own fault allowed these people to have, I mean, the most awful stories of imprisonment, and 19-year-olds in prison. I mean, just absolutely dreadful what happened to them. Yeah, but it was such a good piece. I mean, normally everything you write makes me laugh, but that was so important.

I mean, there aren't that many jokes, are there? I have done it before, and I will keep doing it, and I will try and go to the inquiry. How is writing at the moment? Is it kind of of it's been a very rich vein for you Marina really come on Lenny I've been drowning in material like I mean the whole government the pandemic the mismanagement so even though it's been the misfortune for us it's excellent for your column it's been good for business I don't mean actual business I mean just my business yeah yeah of

course but yes but I mean I would certainly sacrifice all that if we could just return to an even keel for sort of you know 15 minutes I think we'd take wouldn't we yeah absolutely I mean in the old days you used to like ignore the news for about two weeks and then if you check back in with it it'd be a little bit like Coronation Street. You missed a few episodes, but you still know what's happening. And now I used to feel like, I mean, I don't understand anything.

I've had to go under for a small surgery for two hours and now I don't understand anything. This is what happened after Brexit. It just continually, there were about four news cycles a day and everything went crazy. And the same happened in America. And I think it's quite hard to see how things become,

this is such an awful word, but sort of sane again. But I think it's quite hard to see how things become, you know, something you can ignore for two weeks again. Strangely, Liz Truss was still smiling. Oh, I know. How did she get to it? She wished she'd been there forever, Jessie. At every event.

At the Senateaph every year. Yeah, because she was a prime minister. 15 minutes. Someone said it's like when your sister gets married and you bring a girlfriend, and she's in all the photographs, and then you dump her, and the most important day of your sister's life,

and there's the old girlfriend that you don't like. I've got the other way. My lovely mother-in-law who you know I love dearly didn't allow me in any of the wedding photos of her and her husband my lovely father-in-law this was 20 years ago because she didn't think I was going to stick around well I'm still here still here and I love you and she bought me a book so we do love her yeah we love you I wonder if you could be late I mean you could for one of the sort of big anniversaries have yourself re yeah why not I mean why not I mean we bought each other everything

by this stage if you're anything like our family bought each other by everything by this stage in our lives so you have to come up with a new present let's talk about family where where do you live now are you in London I live in Notting Hill with all the other assholes. And I've lived there for, gosh, I mean, really so long now. More than 25 years. I'm jealous of you. I cycled there yesterday. We always move there now.

But I cycled there yesterday. It's idyllic. I mean, it's really lovely. I feel like a tourist when I'm there. Yeah. I'm really near the park and it's lovely but yes, I mean it has become in the length of time that we have lived there

it's become, I mean like a lot of pubs shut down I think because people had and restaurants because I think people had private chefs but I think perhaps more of them are opening now but anyway but it is lovely So where are some of your top spots that you will eat at when you're not having a private chef at home?

Oh, well, I tell you what. Joe. Let me think. Okay, well, I'm not having a chef. Exactly. No, I am the private chef. I do all the cooking. So where am I?

Okay, so my one site I love to go to, I love to go to Fisher's. I love a schnitzel. It's my favourite. I mean, schnitzel's my favourite. Yeah. I mean, if we get onto Last Supper's, it's going to have a number of entries. Schnitzel's my favourite. So I love to go to Fisher's. Fisher's in Marylebone. I mean, if we get on to Last Suppers, it's going to have a number of entries. Schnitzel's my favourite. So I love to go to Fishers.

Fishers in Marylebone. In Marylebone. Yeah. Which I love. You feel like you're abroad as well. Yes, you do. It feels continental. It's got a Viennese feel, hasn't it?

I mean, yeah. It wasn't very like that in Vienna when I went, but it's like my Disney version of Vienna. Do you think you could serve schnitzel for brunch? Yeah. You can serve it at any... Yeah, with an egg on top. Yeah. The Holstein.

The Holstein, yeah. How do you take your schnitzel, Maureen Hyde? I will take it all sorts of ways, and I make it all sorts of ways. Ultimately, I would like a wiener with the gravy, you know, whatever the gravy is, the nice one. I don't want to have the lingonberry or whatever it is, the gravy on the side but or to go all over oh my god the gravy is really the one that fishes yeah the one that they do do you do fresh breadcrumbs or do you use panko i do matzo sometimes i do yeah matzo is i do a lot medium matzo and you're not a jew are you i'm not a jew but that's quite unusual for a non-jew to use matzo meal but it's very good is it matzo and you're not a Jew are you I'm not a Jew but that's quite unusual for a non-Jew to use matzo meal but it's very good is it matzo meal that you're using medium okay ah or I do

panko then I do basically like katsu's and things like that or you can do milanesi with that with all the you know with the parmesan or what else do I do oh yeah there's a there's a really good osteolenghi one that's just like about a million different seeds, which I feel is giving me the power of good. Oh, that is delicious. That's a really good one in the so-called simple book. Yeah, yeah. But you know why it's called Osteolenghi's simple book, because it's simple for him.

Yeah, I love it. What other versions of it do I can't even remember? You love a breaded chick. Yeah, I know, but it's really, I mean, I just, we have a version of schnitzel once a week in our house. Do your children eat it? They love it. How old are your kids? They love it. Twelve, I mean, I just, we have a version of schnitzel once a week in our house. Do your children eat it? They love it. How old are your kids?

They love it. 12, 10 and 8. Okay, so you're the... I came from three, so I felt I had to have... That's what I did too. Yeah, I feel I have to have three. And do they all eat well? Yeah, they're all great eaters, thank goodness.

Have they always been? Yeah, they have been pretty good. Yeah, they have been. I mean, I did sort of make them get on with it and, you know, maybe that's wrong. We have to get some tips. Maybe that's wrong. I I did what was done with me which is you kind of had to finish it up well Sam my husband's doing pancake night because it's a Tuesday I mean it's definitely not Shrove Tuesday he's doing that tonight yeah it's really sweet yeah he's very good yeah he's very good when you aren't making a version of schnitzel, what would you cook for Lenny and I?

If we were coming over, we don't need fancy pants. We just want like pure marina. I would probably cook, okay, I would want it to be quite, I've got better over the years and not trying to do everything at the last minute and say, no, I must do the souffle. Like some sort of horrendous housewife. It's all going to go wrong and whatever. So I would have lots of things on the table. I would do some form of chicken maybe I would do like flat iron chicken and hammer it out and do it on the griddle and then have a big plate of all of that and with you know lemon and garlic

or whatever and then I'd have lots of salads and then I'd my husband I would always have to have some form of potatoes and some bread is your husband a journalist no he's not he works at the BBC but he's not a journalist. He works on the sort of business. I really don't. It's a little bit like Chandler and Friends. I don't quite know what he does. Imagine how long we talk about my job every week.

What am I going to write? Yeah, I mean, I'm dimly aware of what he does. And he, yes, he is. He runs the BBC, clearly. And it's a big opening at the moment for a new person. Did he, when you started going out, did he tell you that he read your column? No, but we've been together for...

It's my 24th wedding anniversary. Congratulations. Yeah, that is a long time. I was not... I was like... I worked as a temp. I was a temporary secretary. I mean, actually, I was too bad at typing. My typing speed was too slow. So I was a temporary receptionist when we met um and he did work at some sort of form of financial journalism company again I hazy on the detail how many years has your column been going now it's

20 like it's been a long it's been a long time that I've since I'm I think since 2005 I then had like my I did the diary column in the paper before in the Guardian I've got to ask a really important question which football team do you support Chelsea oh I know what can I tell you have you heard me talk I mean yeah it's funny that I know it goes on yeah how did Frank Lampard come back he's the crappiest manager in the whole of the Premier League. Is he coming back? He's back at Chelsea. He's back.

Did that just happen? Because the taxi driver said yesterday when I was driving to the theatre, he said, I really want Frank back. Oh, he can't. He's back temporarily. He has had one win in 20 games. For any club. For any club.

Everton are definitely going down because of him. Yeah. Aye, aye, aye. So you support Chelsea. Well, you were always a Chelsea supporter. So where did you grow up? I grew up in Surrey. So we're on the Surrey-Sussex borders in the countryside

with my parents who are still together and super fantastic. I'm the eldest of three girls. So my sisters are still my sort of best friends in the absolute world. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, they're fantastic. I'm the eldest of three girls. So my sisters are still my sort of best friends in the absolute world. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, they're fantastic. Yeah, so we're all really close. So I was really, really very lucky.

But I went to a boarding school. Did you? I know, but I loved it, you see. Did you? I know, you see. I know it's very unfashionable to say it, but I absolutely... What age did you go at?

11. And I absolutely loved it. So which boarding school? It's a schoolashionable to say it, but I absolutely... What age did you go at? 11. And I absolutely loved it. So which boarding school? It's a school called Down House, which is in Berkshire. Oh, I know Down House. Yeah, yeah. And was the food good? Yeah.

Well, do you know, I mean, I think now it'd probably be regarded by the standards of probably modern schools as not very good, but it was totally fine. We loved it. And it was a big thing, you know, of course, all the mealtimes. And we all sat with different ages and you had to have sort of two girls from each year on your table. But I loved it. You know, you heard all the grown up chat. You know, it was I absolutely I'm sorry to say we had an amazing dining room, really old with all sort of panel. But then with a gallery all around it and a sort of big, beautiful mural, countryside, some sort of rural idyll on the back wall.

It was very unusual because the school looked quite unusual, sort of halfway between a convent and a prison, but I really liked it. But obviously it's not for everyone, as I've read quite a lot about. And you've always spoken out, so did you get in trouble at school? Oh, my God, I was in trouble the whole time. But that's what was so fun, you see. It was sort of war, really.

And I loved, you know, you have that independence and you live with all your best friends and yes I was always so naughty I was always so naughty my eldest is just the same unfortunately now I'm having to say you know but my parents didn't really boss us around and tell us we I think they regarded the stuff that happened at school stayed at school I mean I hope I wasn't malicious but yes I was naughty but it was such fun you know trying to get away with it and when you came home what was the first meal your mum would cook when you said oh mum you know I really want such and such oh I can't even remember she'd make us things up we'd ask her to get things because I tell you what my mother hates cooking she did about five dishes in rotation and if she listens to this mummy I you know I adore you but

you'd be the first to say that it's not your first love. But you know what? So she'd do about five dishes in rotation always. But we always talked forever and ever around the table. And sometimes, you know, we'd all bring home two friends. So my father would have basically, what does that make? Ten women and him. Poor son. Yeah, I know. But actually he really liked it. He's very outdoorsy and people, I think, always thought he wanted boys,

but he didn't. He was thrilled to have girls. And was he quite political? Well, funnily enough, his gran... They were always interested in politics, but his father was an MP, was a Conservative MP, and his father had been Frank Whittle's best friend. Whittle was the guy who invented the jet engine.

And when Whittle had invented the jet engine, he started a company with my... My grandfather started the business for it, which was called Power Jets. And then they tried to get the government interested to fund and they never really were very interested at all. And so they had a bit of a nightmare, but they kind of by ingenuity and drive and force of will,

obviously created this incredible world-changing invention. Not my grandfather, he did the business bit, but Whittle created this. And then straight after the war, Stafford Cripps nationalised it for the Labour government and he was really annoyed about that. He felt that, you know, we'd never had any help and it was annoying that their business was nationalised.

So he went into politics. But, you know, his greatest friend was like his Labour pair and I guess it was just a different time in politics, really. Have you got any political friends? Not really. No, I haven't. And I've actually, I don't, I'm not friends with any politicians at all. And I refuse, I mean, I don't think probably anyone want to be friends with me. No, they probably don't.

But I refuse all sort of invitations to drinks and things like that. I've just always felt there was this old Guardian critic right back in the Manchester Guardian days Neville Cardiff who was brilliant who said he never wanted to meet any politicians because it would dilute the purity of his hatred and whilst I you know I know that's quite harsh isn't it but I do feel like if I were to have had hung out with these people and I know I'm actually really British and if I had had a drink with them I would think oh that's a bit awkward I don't think I better say that because I saw them you know I don't know I'm actually really British. And if I had had a drink with them, I would think that's a bit awkward. I don't think I better say that because I sort of, you know, I don't know.

I would just feel like I would just I know I'd pull my punches or or I wouldn't maybe. I'm not saying I see straight in the first place. I mean, I'm not trying to claim some great thing for what I write, but I just think I would end up being compromised in some way by myself. I would self-edit. Which politician has really vied for your friendship? I bet you Rishi Sunak has invited you to something. No, they don't. No, none of the Tories would Labour invite you to bits.

They should be very careful. No, not really. I tell you what, I mean, actually, most of you... Are they scared of you? No, I do. I'm sure not. This is not going to work very well because I'm trying to do a visual impression on a podcast. But there was this one time I did see Boris Johnson at some, I can't remember what it was. And he saw me and he was like pointing from, you know, wherever he was on a stage.

He probably fancied you, Marina. He was pointing at me and going like that, really glowering at me. Were you thrilled? No, I wasn't. I just thought, you're such an idiot. This is so uncool. Why don't you just pretend you've never seen it? You know know Orson Welles used to have this person who wrote about him really mean things about him all the time not Walter Winchell who was a big gossip columnist but another guy in the New York Daily News who always used to write mean things about him and Orson Welles used to say said every time I saw him I greeted him like an old friend just so he'd

never think I'd read a single word he'd written and I really think why did Boris Johnson just like act like he'd ever seen any of it I mean it was such a show of sort of yeah weakness and smallness I mean just be cool just be like it really doesn't matter I'm the prime minister and you're some little dick who wants to the guardian so but he really showed a sort of I don't know I thought it was such an odd way of being. But it means that he reads your... Someone tells him about it. I don't know that he reads very much, Jesse, people say.

I think he's one of those people who's got that dangerous thing, which I actually think that King Charles has slightly got as well. Those people who wish they'd been born in another time and that they've come too late in the arc of history. And it would have been all right. If they were mid-century people. Now, Johnson kept thinking, oh, you know, I can't be like Churchill because what are my challenges? But of course, he got this enormous challenge in the shape of the pandemic,

which required him essentially to be on the television making a kind of walk of time broadcast every night. And look how he handled it. He was found completely wanting so he actually did have a kind of multi-generational you know one of the big challenges of the century in lots of ways so he had all the opportunity to prove himself and he proved himself in a certain way didn't he he proved himself to be what he thought. He didn't surround himself with the most able people either did he? But I think he was the least able of all of them I mean really I really do he was flattered by them have you had to develop a very thick skin no I don't know I don't do you I don't

care what anyone says about me oh really really have you never cared about what people say about you no I did before I had children now I don't care oh I now I don't care because now I've now I've had children and I've actually become much more of a risk taker and I think anything good that I've ever written and all the other things that I'm doing in life that I think are good has all happened after I've had children now I'm only saying this because I get that lots of people it feels like it you know that their career gets limited after that or whatever and I'm just saying as a counterweight because you don't necessarily would hear this because it made me much more of a risk taker I also felt like oh I mean honestly with someone what does someone say something about you online I mean really who cares it's like you know

this is not the real my real world is them and my real world is and it just really it's a terrible thing to say to have had three children to put things into perspective for you I didn't have them for that reason but it has been a lovely byproduct I really feel that and I feel I've taken so many more risks that I wouldn't have had the confidence to do because in a way I just didn't mind failing so much because I felt like oh I see you know these guys are the important thing so I felt able to fail in a way or to risk failure in a way that I hadn't before have your editors ever been like you you know what? You can't put that in. You've taken it too far, Marina. Oh, no, quite often they'll query something on taste grounds,

at which point I have to say, you know, this is a resigning issue if this is removed, like some actual ridiculous knob gag or something. But just as a point of principle. But if it's quite query on taste... You don't get legaled. Oh, no. Lenny, I'm never out of legal. Yes, I know you are.

Okay. Because I remember in my acknowledgements to the Guardian legal department who I have a very special relationship with. But yes, I do get legal, but I actually don't have much trouble with legal anymore because I have learned over so many years how to get things into the paper rather than have them taken out of the paper so there's always a way that you can kind of slightly tweak it and essentially say to what anyone normal would look like exactly the same thing do you still enjoy your job yes look although I always like to do new things and I'm doing new at the moment at the moment I'm you've got the book I'm doing yes I've got the book I'm doing quite a lot of TV writing in fact I've been doing some TV writing for a while

I can imagine this this makes sense wow so that's been what like comedy comedy yes sitcom you know

amazing and that's been great you know that that is something that it's been brilliant to do how exciting to be sort of

frightened again and you know can we talk about any of the projects I've got one that's sort of coming up we're about to shoot the um

but the writer's strike has made a bit of trouble for it but we can still do our episode one which is called the franchise which is for HBO and it's sort of behind the scenes on a superhero franchise movie which has been I've been in this I mean this wonderful writer's room with this incredible show this guy who's a showrunner called John Brown who's fantastic who writes and one of the big writers on Succession and various other things and I really feel like we we've had to we've got a hiatus now for our um the writer's strike but I honestly felt like I didn't really feel like I feel like this anymore

like I really love these people there's seven of us and it's and two brilliant writers assistants actually but I feel like we're a little band of brothers and sisters and I actually didn't think that it was still available to me, that feeling that almost like when you're 17 and you first go on holiday with your friends and you're like, oh my God, I've got this new thing that I'm, you know, it's been so fun. And exciting.

Even though it's been like, I've sort of had to work two jobs. So I have to get up so early in the morning, I have to get up at four or whatever, but it doesn't matter. But that's okay. Well, because I have to do the guardian job as well. Crikey. But then is this all on zoom no we do it in the proper room oh are they over here or you've been over there no we most of

us are british there's two american women who are fantastic so most of us are british but it is but so we've done it here and we'll film it at leaveston do you think you've got a whole series in you for something else that's like a marina i've got a few deals on other whole series so i wish i can't yes but anyway yes i've got a few don't go off the guardian though well no i hopefully i can keep going on all of it but it's been it's been really good to do something again where i was really sort of frightened again and to feel like oh my god i don't know actually know I'm doing now But you are so funny Everybody should know how funny you are I'm very disappointed in your audio

This is so lovely I was so excited about coming Well whilst mum is carving the old chicken, let's talk about this last supper. Oh, right, yeah. Okay, last supper. Starter main. And I think it's pretty...

You're going to find it pretty... Okay, right. Drink. I am a huge fan of all pre-meal drinks. I really enjoy... Like an aperitif. Yeah, really big fan. So I think I would...

I mean, I do love a dirty martini, but I think actually for this last supper, I would go for a margarita. Ooh. Yeah, I love a margarita. I love a Rita. I do love a dirty martini. Very dirty.

Do you know what people call them now? I thought it was Marks, but you call them Rita. No, no, I just... You like that. I don't think any people are doing this, and I don't think it's cool. Maybe they're going to like that.

But I, and I like my dirty martinis so dirty that I have to always say, can they be filthy? Yeah. Which is, do you do vodka or gin? Gin.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I do vodka. What gin do you go for? Oh, I mean, I'm not that, I mean, I'm not that fussy,

but if I, if I'm buying them at home, yes. I hate to say something. What? I think this is dry. Oh shit. I promise you I promise you we're blaming Alison she said two and a half hours

do you want to make a little jus there is no jus it'll be sensational I'm so grateful I do all the cooking as I say so this is so nice you will make your own dirty martini at home I feel like I need to get to that level

on like a Friday night when we're lighting the candles for Shabbat that I've learned how to make a dirty martini. I don't know why I'm scared of it. Like vermouth. It's so easy. Is it? And you've got the olives in a jar in your fridge and they, you know, you're going, I'm not using the jar

every week. No. I am using it every week, obviously, for dirty martinis. But, you know, you're just working your way down using the jar every week. So it's going, I am using it every week, obviously, for dirty martinis. But, you know, you're just working all day. What kind of olives do you go for? I mean, I'm not that fussy. I want it to be in a jar so I can have the juice. Can you just tell yourself before it dries out? Okay.

Thank you for this. It's so wonderful. This is not great. And then, am I really helping myself? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, can you get a little yeah yeah I would get the bottom bit because I think it's a bit dry sorry

wow I'm sorry okay so then the starter I can't make this myself someone's going to have to do this for me I am about to die presumably so it's yeah let's be honest Marina you're dying fine it is a tuna carpaccio. Ooh, lovely.

I'm just not that good with my knife work. So I'm going to have to have someone do that for me. Okay. And my choice of person to do it is whoever does it at La Familia in Chelsea, which is... Oh, I love La Familia. It's my birthday on Saturday. We're going there for Sunday lunch because that's what I want. Is it?

Oh, amazing. It's still going. It survived. No, the daughter has made it incredible out the back. Oh good. They had a little area that was like a sort of I assume just a horrible old It was Kylie's favourite.

They've made it so nice out the back. It's all sort of Italian families basically and us out the back. Oh fab. That'll be fun. So that'll be nice. I'd get them to do the tuna cup. Oh thank, so I'd get them to do the tuna cup. Oh, thank you. I'd get them to do the tuna cup, actually.

Now, for the main course, possibly controversial, but the reason I cook a version of this as well as schnitzel every single week is because it is really comforting, and I love it. And what's the point of saving it for best the night before you die? I will always have a form of roast chicken every single week and i think actually i can dick around with saying i'd like someone to flambe this and flambe that but actually i think for my last supper i'd quite like to be comforted and i would have a form of roast chicken of one type or another um and then

for my pudding i would have something like some great blousy thing, like a lemon pavlova. I love a pavlova. Maybe a pavlova meringue, something like that. A thing that's kind of heavy and light at the same time and like a sort of just a confection. That was very decisive. Well, okay, but there's a lot of other things I could have as well because I absolutely love food and I live to get it.

I do a midweek roast. Yeah, I never do it on Sunday. And I really love food and I live to get it. Do you... I do a midweek roast. Yeah, I never do it on Sunday. And I really love it and the kids love it. I don't think it is. You're being very, very self-critical. What do you think, Jess? I'm saying nothing.

No, it's dry. It's okay. I'd like to know who would be around your last supper and I'd like to know which politicians you would have around your last supper. Have I had to have them? Yeah. I think I'd have to be delving you would have around your Last Supper. Have I had to have them?

Yeah. I think I'd have to be delving back in history, don't you? I think I'd be on, you know, sort of Thomas Cromwell and Bismarck and those guys, wouldn't I? I think, you know, Emmeline Pankhurst. I think we'd have to be going back in history. I'm really sorry because it's really horrible when people say, you know, do you see anyone among politicians at the moment to give us hope? And it feels so negative to say, well, I'm sorry, I don't really. Probably there's some fantastic people on

the back benches who haven't sort of surfaced into our public consciousness yet. And maybe they're wonderful. But I have to say that I think it's consequently as well, I think none of the big ideas are happening in politics. All the big ideas are happening in things like international aid. And really, the voluntary sector is incredible dealing with some of these enormous challenges that the state has kind of failed. Tech, obviously. All these big ideas are happening somewhere other than politics. Ed Miliband.

Do you think it'll be like tech leaders leading the world soon and going into politics? Do you think? No, I'll tell you what, I think they already do in lots of ways. i think that they would see the sort of a bit like murdoch really has always seen prime ministers as sort of junior personnel and i do think that mark zuckerberg for a long time was thinking i'll run to be president and he even went on some hilarious like i will be doing a listening tour in iowa pennsylvania i was like what okay are you running for president he went and sort of stood at truck stops.

And I think after, and people were like, okay, he's definitely running at some point, even if it's in whenever it was. And then I think he just thought, why would I do this? I mean, I'm so much more important than, you know, president of the United States.

We've had a really weird email. A shout out to Jenny. This one's for you. I've got to speak with my mouth full. I'm true. Someone's written to us, say've got to speak with my mouth full. I'm true. Someone's written to us, saying they love us speaking with our mouths full. It kind of turns her on.

It's exciting. Oh, it came from Jenny, who's Australian. I didn't think that. I love listening to you. This would have been fine if it wasn't spatchcock. If it had been a whole chicken. And kept the moisture in. Can I just say to your listeners,

this is so much more than fine. This is absolutely delicious. It's really yummy. You'd be thrilled to have this on a Tuesday night. It's actually very tasty. It's delicious. So have you had,

have you had many kitchen disasters? Not really. Now, I taught myself to cook because I didn't have it from my mother. My mother wasn't totally interested in cooking.

So I taught myself to cook really sort of late, I suppose. I suppose I started in my early 30s or I had done it a bit before but I really taught myself and now I cook every night and I really think about it all all the time and it's a big part of everything I set a hell of a lot of alarms on my phone because I I that is my disaster area thinking there's no possible way I could speak in 12 minutes I won't remember to take these biscuits out but unless I set an alarm on my phone believe me they will be destroyed so things like that I have to thanks to the development of the iPhone I have to avoid do you bake a lot yes I do I bake a lot and I I mean I do it bake a lot? Yes, I do. I bake a lot and I, I mean, I do it all a lot, I suppose.

I don't make my own bread. I always feel, I have done it, but I always feel weirdly, considering I will do quite complicated things, by this humble thing, I feel quite intimidated by it. Me too. Do you? You know what my friend said? She was going to do, she was going to get a bread maker because her sisters have bread makers and so they have fresh bread every day.

That's the last thing I need. She says it's really good. Some she says it's really good but i'm like is it going to be a bit like the air fryers just going to sit on the side and gather i'd like an air front have you got an air no i i'm sworn against big things on the side unless they really sing for their supper you know what it was a bit dry but it was very tasty i don't think it had a kind of um a kind of portuguese piri piri thing about it even though it wasn't spicy there was hot paprika smoked paprika yeah two well i put three garlics grated olive oil pepper and fennel seeds that i ground up. The thing is that we've done the slow roast, the other one. Jessie, we've done this one with tomato and oregano.

And you just shove it all in. For two and a half hours or something. Two and a half hours. Is it spatchcocked? No. No, don't worry. It was whole. And it's delicious.

It's really good. I might have to take the recipe off that one. Can you give me the recipe of that? Okay, mum, what have we got? I think that you're going to retrieve you're going to redeem yourself now this is nigella

chocolate and olive oil it's moist in the wise words oh is this the chocolate olive oil yeah I've really wanted to try this

and I haven't got I haven't tried it I've got the book yeah as um Rick Astley would say it's moist and he would like that very much

thank you so much that's your spoon oh it looks fab. So it's a chocolate and olive oil cake with raspberries, you've got some Kelly's ice cream, or you've got some cream, or you've got sour cream. What are you going to go for? It's tough, actually.

You can have a bit of both. I can have a bit of everything, can't I? I tell you what, maybe I'll try the thing first and then decide what I most want to do with it, if that's not very rude Mr Kelly we love Kelly's ice cream because when I was

a child in Cornwall sorry I just dozed my hands about so much we always went on our summer holiday for two weeks to Cornwall

to a place called Harlan Bay and Mr Kelly's van was on the beach oh wow and in the afternoon we were all allowed a Mr Kelly's

and so I've got a real crush on Mr Kelly basically basically, because of that. Oh, don't tell me you're going to tell me this is no cake now. No, it's like a sexy, um... Right. It's like a sexy... What are those... I love it.

Those cakes that you can make in a pack. What are they called? Like the devil fudge cake. Betty Crocker. It's like a sexy Betty Crocker. Fuck off. That's not a bad thing. What do you mean it's not a bad thing?

This was made from scratch, you fool. I'm saying it's a sexy Betty Crocker. Oh, my God. See what you... You'll see what I mean. I've had it. It's made with grand almonds. Sexy, sexy Betty Crocker.

Betty Crocker's never seen an almond in her life. She is an ultra high process. I do know what you mean slightly. Thank you. Who wants some more Betty Crocker? It was really delicious. I loved it, but I don't actually. Do you know it's only made with cocoa?

Oh no, it's amazing, isn't it? It's like a strange... How much sugar? Cocoa, not olive oil. How much sugar? Not that much. So it's actually good for it i i never it's like a strange how much are not olive oil how much sugar not that much so it's actually good for us it's not that overly sweet no it's not that overly sweet it's really lovely i absolutely take it home for sam please yeah we've talked about mr kelly on the cornish beaches but is there another nostalgic taste that can transport you somewhere oh my gosh well I'm afraid it's for me

it's so many of those weird like sweets penny sweets all of those everything toffee bomb oh my god lemon sherbets my children if we ever go to some little town now my children will smell out an old-fashioned sweet shop from a million miles and I'm like can we go can we go oh of course we can go I'm literally just trying to get there as quick as possible. I love all those. The chocolate limes, any of those sweets. They're so... God, they can take me back anywhere.

Although another thing that every time I smell it, when you get an English strawberry, a British strawberry at the start of the season. And they're really delicious. And I'm always right back in a pick your own with my mother on my knees in the straw when we were all little eating more than you put in the basket more than you put in and you've got juice dripping down your mouth yeah all I'm always if you smell one of those and I'm just back in those fields on my knees in the straw always you are good Marina

every answer you've given us you've delivered I don't think I have you absolutely have and you're warm and fabulous and brilliant and we're we're so thrilled to have you absolutely have and you're warm and fabulous and brilliant and we're we're so thrilled to have you on today oh my god thanks so much and i can't wait to watch the tv shows that you will be putting out well i wouldn't go that far just do you think you'd like to have dinner with gwyneth paltrow oh god yeah listen one of her candles burning in the back yeah the funny one yeah absolutely listen i will tell you that one of the great things about being a sort of a writer is that you get this kind of get out of jail free thing to behave just go anywhere and say oh you know i

had to see what it was like you know i so i mean i don't really turn anything down on principle at all in fact many of my greatest regrets in life are things I've turned down on principle so I did you start your journalism at the sun yes but I was the secretary I was the receptionist oh you were the receptionist it was completely by accident that I've ever become a journalist but looking back like lots of things in life what did you think you were going to be because Jessie thought she was going to be a journalist I didn't know I'm afraid to I tell you what I did think I was going to be which is is that until I was 18, no, I wanted to go into politics. I wanted to be the prime minister. I wanted to go into politics. And when I got to university, I went to Oxford and I thought, oh, this thing, the Oxford Union, everybody joins and they will, you know, this is a big political

thing. This is the start of it. Yeah, it'd be really interesting. And I went to the Freshers' Fair and you could sign up for one year or for three years yeah obviously I signed up for three years gave all my money away and when I got into it I just thought oh my god I mean immediately immediately from the very first time I attended I was like oh my gosh every scale fell from my eyes and I thought this is what people in politics are like and I knew immediately that I didn't like have a bad crop or whatever or whatever it was just like I hadn't fully understood what it would be like you are political yeah so I'm interested but then immediately I had absolutely no interest in it kill all of it and I mean actually some of these people was it a boy's time no I mean there were

people like Liz she was in it oh my god yeah the same year as you yes but I mean I you know I saw these people twice in my life and then just thought this is just and only the second time because i paid but she was left wing then wasn't she she's the liberal democrats i mean i don't really know i think they just had the politics of getting ahead if i'm really honest i don't think they were any positions were as you can see i think they were rather lightly held did you ever go to house parties with this trust no noily enough, someone told me, someone, a friend of mine at Cambridge,

Kwasi Kwarteng was a friend of a friend of theirs, and he'd come round to their house one time, and he went to a student party at their house when he was a student, and he stayed on their sofa and he vomited all over their sofa. And do you know what he did in the morning? What? He simply got up. And walked away. What did he fucking do?

And I feel in many ways we all still live in that sofa, don't we? Right now. Yes. Metaphorically. He vomited and walked away. After what he did last year. Do we not all at some level live down the crackdown that sofa? Marina Hyde, thank you so much for joining us and just being...

Sorry about the dried chicken. It was absolutely... And the anal day, she's thrilled. She might write a column. And she may be a bit pissed now because... She might write a column tomorrow about the dried chicken. It was absolutely an emotional day. She might write a column tomorrow about my dried chicken. It would only be a hymn to you both. Okay, thank you. I can't thank you enough for having me. It's such a joy. I felt like that was a really good one mum

I'd like that to have stayed for a week the picture that I've got of you is like the look of love with you two she's looking at you like she's so proud to gossip with you so proud that you're her new friend i loved it she was better than expectation except for one thing what chelsea chelsea nightmare it's not you marina yeah it's a nightmare that was the only thing that let her down. I really, really enjoyed having Marina Hyde over. I think she's fantastic. I think that everyone should read her words, her book.

But I can't wait for the TV. She's so witty. The new TV shows are going to be fantastic. Marina Hyde's What Just Happened is out now on paperback. It's also on hardback. It's Dispatches from Turbulent Times. Thank you for getting us through it with your wit and words, Marina.

What was that? That was the chair, but it sounded like a rocker. Oh God, I thought you had wind. Christ. I thought she's let herself go here. Oh God. I'm sorry's let herself go here. Oh, God. I'm sorry it was Betty Crocker.

No, it was nice. It was really nice. She almost didn't taste like that yesterday. Hers was more dense. That was quite light, wasn't it? I thought it was delicious. No butter, no dairy. No dairy, dairy-free.

No dairy and no gluten. That is a great thing for people that are dairy-free and gluten-free. I'm neither of those things, Mother. Good, thank God for that. Yeah. Thank you for listening. Jenny, I hope that satisfied you with the eating with mouth. Masticating.

And please, listeners, please send your complaints about mouths being full at hello at tablemannerspodcast.com We'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening and we will see you next week.