Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S15 Ep 2: Russell T Davies

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

We have the legendary Russell T Davies on Table Manners this week. We’ve wanted him for so so long and finally, here he is - one of the greatest TV writer/producers of our time - eating a fish cake and having a brew in Lennie's kitchen. Russell talks to us about his return to Doctor Who, his life changing experience making ‘It’s A Sin’ and his latest 3 part drama ‘Nolly’ featuring a sublime performance by Helena Bonham Carter.We chat about his love of tinned boiled potatoes (jury is out) where to eat in Swansea & receiving teabags for his birthday. What a joy this one was. Have a listen and if you haven’t already, make sure you go & watch Nolly which is streaming on ITVX now x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny. Lenny, you've got a little bit of flour in your hair. I've got more than that, darling. It's down everywhere, I think. Tell the listeners why you've got flour in your hair. What are you making today? Does it smell a bit fishy in here? Oh yeah, it smells like Gaggar's flat in Cheetham Hill, circa 1993. Jessie, did you see all about Cheetham Hill? It's the biggest drug centre in the whole of the world.

And they're having to smash doors down because there's drug dealing, gangsters, gangs. They're bulldozing doors down and trying to... That's where my mum lived. Jagger was a bad bitch, wasn't she? Yeah. On her mobile scooter, she used to see them all. She was probably shotting all the drugs on her mobile scooter. She used to have a stick my mum left. Jagger was a bad bitch wasn't she? Yeah. On her mobile scooter she used to see them all. She was probably

shotting all the drugs on her mobile scooter. She used to have a stick and whack them. Oh my god. Anyway. What are you making? Why have you got

flour in your hair? I've made crab cakes which I've never made before but I thought it would be a nice light lunch because our guest is coming a little later and too late for meat

and too veg I felt. The house does smell of fish, but that is okay. Hopefully he's not going anywhere important later. Our guest is here. Who do we have on today? Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-d And it's a send, Jessie, to Russell T Davies on the podcast on Table Mothers. Russell, you are in our kitchen. At last. I really hope you don't have plans later because you're going tofis a chip. Efallai nad. Efallai yn ffordd arfer.

Mae'n dda. Efallai y byddai hyn yn O'Dur Russell. Rydych chi wedi dod i mewn gyda sgarf gwych, fel sgarf gwych. Mae'r sgarf yn rhywbeth. Mae'n gwych, mae'n ymchwil, mae'n ysgafn o'r ffis. O'r lle mae'n? Mae'n ysgafn o 20 mlynedd. Mae pobl yn cofio fi'n sgafnio pobl yn gwir yn gwir yn y sgafn. O, mewn gwir? Yn ystod y blynedd. Yna, mi wnes i'r sger as Folk in that scarf. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had it for years. Then I lost it. I lost it for about eight years.

And then do you know what I did? What? I looked for it. That's when a man loses something, they haven't even bothered looking. And the first place I looked, I went, oh, there it is. Oh, that's so nice. So where do you actually live? I live in Manchester properly.

That's what I call home. Whereabouts? That's where i'm from oh just rush home just behind oh so i went to school at manchester high which is just near platt fields oh yeah yeah i go walking there you must eat curry every night no i don't weirdly i don't like curry i probably said to you you're in the wrong place i know it's the only rush home is curry mine i like the taste i'm sensitive It just doesn't work for me. Okay. So I lived there just before Manchester. My entire house flooded. Nine pipes

in the roof broke. It was raining inside there for hours. Was it because of the cold? Yeah. It was that freeze and then it thawed. They warn you to leave the heating on. Did I leave the heating on? No, I didn't. Of course, no one's leaving the heating on these days because it's too expensive. Darling, why did you choose Manchester? Much as I love Manchester, it is rather a wet area.

I'm from Swansea, though, so that was already wet. I knew the rain very well. I got a job there. I got a job there in 1987. It was the general election. Up I went. I'd been working in Cardiff. And within about three days, I loved that city.

I just went, oh, I love it here. It is the best place, isn't it? I saw Audrey Roberts in the supermarket. And I was like, this is it. Audrey! This is it, I know. Gorgeous. just went, oh, I love it here. It is the best place, isn't it? I saw Audrey Roberts in the supermarket, and I was like, this is it. Audrey! This is it, I know. Gorgeous. Loved it.

Properly loved it. Settled and got work there, and I wanted to work in telly. So I've never lived in London. Never, never, never. What was your first job in Manchester? It was a children's show. Do you remember Why Don't You?

Yes, Why Don't You. Why don't you just switch off the television set and do something else? Don't you remember? Who presented it? Well, kids. Kids presented it well kids presented it there was no presenter it was just a bunch of kids

doing around 18 years they did hobbies they did made things they did recipes it was why don't you switch off your TV and then they did hobbies yeah so I was the person on the studio floor

who worked with the kids because they needed someone there to direct them on the floor not the camera director but someone there for them. How old were you? A lovely job. I must have been 1987.

I was 24 then. 23, 24. I did it in Wales for a while. So what did you have done at uni? Had you trained to be a teacher or anything? No, I did English. What good did that do? English.

Where did you do that? In Oxford. You went to Oxford. Worcester College in Oxford. Who was in your year that was a bit thespy? Do you know? Just me. I keep looking for famous people in your year that was a bit thespy? Do you know? Just me. I keep looking for famous people

in my year and what rubbish they are. I'm eating a stretch. No, that's fine. Don't worry. Where have you just come from? Tell everybody where you've just come from.

I've just come from loose women. And did you have an enjoyable time? They were. Do you know what? It's such a large, it's a very relaxed show actually. Is it?

You go on, you have a proper laugh. There's four of them firing questions from all angles at you and an audience but's such a large, it's a very relaxed show actually. Is it? You go on, you have a proper laugh. There's four of them firing questions from all angles at you and an audience, but I had a proper laugh. So it was Denise, it was Denise,

Judy Love, Denise, Judy Love, Linda Robson and Lovie Kay Adams. Oh, she's the presenter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's lovely, isn't she?

She's lovely. I had a very nice time. And you were talking about Nolly. Yeah. I've watched it. Have you? Oh, good. I loved it. Oh, watched it I loved it Helena Bonham Carter is sublime

I mean I didn't know of Nolly I didn't but I completely fell in love with her it was really really touching and frustrating in parts because you see how things maybe haven't changed that much but also fe ffynnau â hi. Roedd yn ddiddorol iawn ac yn ffrustrwyddol o ran y rhai oherwydd y gwelwch chi sut na fyddai pethau wedi newid yn fawr. Ond hefyd...

Wel, nid yw hynny'n wir? Ie, ie, ie. Ie, felly sut oedd gweithio gyda Helen, y gartref? O, dim ond hynny. Mae hi'n hyfryd. Rwy'n gwybod, rydych chi'n mynd i fod yn ddwylo. Peidiwch â bod yn ddwylo. Ie, ie, ie. Y pethau mwyaf ddwylo y gwnaethoch chi ei wneud oedd cael cwp o tŷ yn un llaw ac cwp o coffi yn yr arall. Ie, iawn.

Ac mae hynny'n eithaf... Ydych chi'n dda? Ydych chi'n barod i gael unrhyw beth? Ydych chi'n ymgysylltu'n dda gyda hynny. Mae'n un o'r ffoddau o fy fywodd was she had a cup of tea in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other okay come on you're ready for anything she properly engaged with it it's like it's it's one of the joys of my life that i get to work with people like that and you know you're scared you kind of don't we had a first meeting you arranged to be in london and it was locked down at the time so it was all masked and let's meet outdoors did you wear the scarf i did not the scarf because I hadn't looked for it at that point. The looking is quite recent. And you're terrified going to that thinking, what if she's haughty?

What if she's imperious? What if she's got demands? What if she's got notes? That's what I'm scared of. Please don't have a million notes. Or have a million good notes. I'll always take a million good notes. She was delightful. And one of the first things she said was, I have no notes. Hooray! You're always very involved in casting. Yes.

So you don't delegate to a casting agent? Well, in truth you have beth y dywedodd hi oedd, dwi ddim yn cael notiau. Mae'n dda. Rydw i bob amser yn ymwneud â chyflog. Ie. Ie. Ie. Felly, dydwch chi ddim yn cymryd cyflog i un o'r gweithwyr? Wel, mewn gwirionedd, mae gennych gyflogwr gwych, heb ei ddweud. Ie. Mae Andy Pryor yn gwneud fy holl beth, felly dwi ddim yn gallu ei ddewis o'i gilydd oherwydd mae'n wych. Ond rwy'n rhan ohono. Dyna pam rwy'n rhan, rwy'n cynhyrchydd ar fy nhyrch yn ogystal â hynny. Oherwydd rydych chi'n ysgrifennu, ac mae'n fad i roi'r peth i'w roi, ac wedyn ddim yn gweithio â'r peth, oherwydd rwy'n gael sylwadau. Rwy'n gwybod beth y ddylai'r sên fod yn edrych, a sut y ddylai'r ddifrifol rhoi'r peth i'w roi ac wedyn ddim yn gweithio â'r peth oherwydd mae gen i sylwadau. Rwy'n gwybod sut y ddylem y ddynion ddylem ei weld a sut y dylem eu teimlo a sut y dylem eu swnio a phwy ddylai ymwneud â nhw. A oedd hi bob amser y person y gwnaethoch chi ei ofyn? Roedd hi. Wel, nid wyf wedi gwneud hynny unwaith. Rydych chi'n gwybod, roedd pobl wedi dweud, gadewch i ni geisio

roi'r cwrs i'r cwrs. Ac rwy'n dweud ie ie, diolch yn fawr, bye bye. Ac nid ydych chi'n meddwl y bydd hynny'n digwydd oherwydd mae'n rhaid i ni gael 20 sgriptau ar ddiwrnod. Landing on a desk. Yeah, but not all from Russell T Davies. You know. I suppose. I don't. Watching It's a Sin, which kind of, it was perfect and heartbreaking. You were so lovely about that show. No, it was so important. We had Lydia. We had Lydia.

And Ollie we've had. We had Ollie on when he was cast, but he couldn't tell us what. He couldn't talk about it. Right, I've heard that one, heard that one. Isn't he gorgeous? Oh, he's lovely. I mean, that entire cast was just... But that's the thing, and I feel like there was such a gang in that.

But everyone was so lovable. Oh, thank you. And they all had their different issues and and and they were so loved and again with nollie she's not problematic but she was a she's a strong character right that did give notes i do feel that you write characters that people are willing them on people love them people are invested in them oh i hope so I think why did why did you you didn't write

Nolly though I mean in the sense you didn't write her character she was a person already no it's my take on her it's just exactly how she was

is it yeah does that does it ring true with you well because it was one of the really very first soaps to be honest and it was

rather chaotic because all the scenery didn't the kind of movement it was unloved it was unloved by the company that made it yeah and it was set chaotic because all the scenery didn't the kind of movement it was unloved by the company that made it and it was set in the Midlands so it was an odd place to set anything

also it was set in a motel what is a motel? it's like a typo no one had motels but I think they thought they were a bit trendy I think they thought that was the jet set everyone's going to have motels hotels next to they thought they were a bit trendy. I think they thought that was the jet set. Yeah, that's a jet setting. Everyone's going to have motels. Hotels next to motorways. And it never took off.

I used to watch in the 60s and 70s and we'd sit there going what's a motel? It was always mysterious. And it was a bit dynasty like because there was plotting and things like that. Shares and boardroom things. Over a motel was 60 rooms. Yes. But the more interesting people were always the

kind of the the chambermaid or who was having an affair with somebody else or the villagers yeah the village yeah and the village it was in but it was kind of such an odd it was fundamentally flawed that's why it kind of lurched along i'm not making any bones about it it's like the street is a great you can't go wrong with Coronation Street, working class people in a northern town, in a street. Yeah. A motel with boardroom battles.

Over in Birmingham. God, maybe Succession was kind of inspired by Crossroads. I don't know. It paved the way. It paved the way for Succession. But why so called Crossroads? It was such a funny name. Yes, the whole thing was.

There's a very trendy vegan restaurant in Hollywood called Crossroads. Yeah, but a funny name. Yes. The whole thing was... There's a very trendy vegan restaurant in Hollywood called Crossroads. Like Britney Spears goes to. But people kind of got into it because it was a bit odd. So I think that... When was it exactly? Kind of 64 onwards.

It took a while to go network. And then when was it... When did it start? 87. Meg was actually in 1981. It died by 86, 87. So I can remember at university it became a cult. Was it? To watch it, yeah. Because I was in Birmingham University.

And it was a bit of a cult to watch it when you didn't have measures. But Birmingham was very proud of it. Yes. They loved her. She was called Queen of the Midlands. They loved her. That's what nollie was called i i read something that you said about wanting to protect nollie's like legacy because that she has no family yes and one of the curious things about her was um no husband never husband no children also no brothers or sisters so she's kind of vanished from the record.

She died quite soon after she was sacked, about four years later. So, you know, we all talk about these great beings. Someone said very interesting, Nicola, the producer, said to me the other day, I wish she'd said this to me while we were filming, but she said, because I was like saying, why isn't she remembered?

We remember Diana Dawes. And Nicola said, that's because Diana Dawes is remembered as a sex bomb. Yes, true. We remember the sexy women, the men are in charge of who we remember. She was already older when she was. Yes, she was a beautiful woman. But she's much more matriarchal. Isn't that terrible that we remember the sex bombs?

Now I am using the phrase sex bomb, which is ridiculous in itself. And we don't remember the more ordinary women. Why did you fall in love with her? Well, I was watching and I was 18 in 1981 pan oedd hi'n cael ei ddysgu. Ac mae hynny'n ymwneud â'r oedolion. Roeddwn i'n mynd i'r brifysgol ac roeddwn i'n golygu Jules Dickens a pheth bynnag. Roeddwch chi'n gwylio Crossroads. Ac roeddwn i'n hyfforddiol am Crossroads. Pan wnaethoch chi fynd i'r brifysgol, ar gyfer y tro cyntaf, roedd ystafell yno, yn sydd â'r holl llyfrau. Felly, ar y tro cyntaf o fy fywyd, roedd gen i gael mynediad i bob tabloid unigol. Felly,

bob mis, roedd pawb arall yn darllen ar y sborth a'r gwleidyddiaeth a phethau fel hynny. Ond roeddwn i'n mynd i gael yr holl wybodaeth am yr hyn sy'n digwydd single tabloid so every morning I was you know everyone else was reading up on the sports and politics and things like that but I just go and get all the information about what was happening to Nolly on cross I was obsessed with it and I genuinely thought it was strange even then at 18 years old I thought why are you sacking the lead I remember when she got this it was so shocking yeah it was all over the page I mean it feels quite apt that you made this because obviously you've made so much television. I don't mean it. I'm a television soul. But yeah, do you think it kind of stemmed

from this interest in television and crossroads and characters and big characters and all that? It did. It's true. I grew up watching the soaps and my mum and dad never switched the television off. That's what I loved about them.

Visitors came to the house, they'd leave it on. In the background. Yeah, and they did it until closed down at night. And they never stopped me watching anything. They were quite conservative. A couple of them. They were two teachers. They were quite conservative in many ways. In many ways, I think they were sort of beholden

to the television. They kind of thought it had authority. And they didn't let me watch anything in the 70s. All those plays for today. My parents were the same. I, Claudia, stuff with all the sex in I, Claudia. I was watching that at like 12 years old quite happily they never turned anything off and it kind of made me

who I am in a way were you having telly dinners no we didn't do that no one did that then okay when did that also my mum was an amazing cook

so we'd always have sometimes I'd have it on my lap if I was lucky very very good on a Saturday night oh yes sometimes I suppose you'd have times like that and Christmas when you're what Christmas I was very, very good on a Saturday night. Oh, yes. I suppose you'd have times like that.

And Christmas. What do you do? Christmas dinner at night. Or when Miss World was on. Oh, what? So my parents were obsessed with Miss World. Why? It was a bit like the Eurovision. Eurovision.

Oh, because my parents just, my father would get a thing out. It was huge. It was huge, Jessie. My father would get a sheet out. Oh, I bet he fucking did. No, he wasn't like that, my dad. get a thing out. It was huge, Jessie. My father would get a sheet out. Oh, I bet he fucking did. No, he wasn't like that, my dad. He was so conservative, my father. But we'd kind of say who we thought was the best

and a bit like Eurovision. Yeah. You said that your mum's a good cook. Give us a dish that just fills... Well, I can remember, because this is in the 60s, there was a shop in Swansea called The International where she'd have to go to buy garlic garlic

you wouldn't get garlic in shops it didn't exist or olive oil olive oil my sister says peppers as well actual peppers

you wouldn't go there so she'd go there to buy that she was just she'd like on a normal night she'd say let's have osso bucco

oh wow she was a properly properly marvellous cook yeah yeah it was amazing it was normal to me I just grew up with that now I look around

and go oh right that's not every mother did she have Julia Child's book no it was all she had all sorts of handwritten recipes and in old old books

she worked she was a teacher as well but she just she lived in that kitchen the day she died the oven broke that really happened that really

something snapped in the world how old was she? Oh, she was only 72. She was far too young. 2001. Far too young. She should be around now. We all miss her to this day. Is your dad alive? No, he died about

when he was 90 years old. A few years ago. And have you got brother and sisters? I've got two older sisters. Janet and Susan. Now I'm not in my magic house I've got a Swansea house, I'm very lucky I've got a second house and they live just down the road funny life isn't it, you spend your life

running away and going and living your life and there's a bit of elastic that just pulls you back and it's nice. Who got the cooking gene out of you? Not me, my sister Susie really got that, sorry sister Janet you've got a bit of. My sister Susie really got that. Sorry, Sister Janet, you've got a bit of it.

But Sister Susie cooks all day long. Sister Susie had a stroke 10 years ago and is now amazingly, completely recovered. She's worked so hard. Good for her. She's 99% recovered. It was a big stroke.

And baking became her way out of it. She got a proper licence from the council to bake in her kitchen and started selling the cakes. It was part of her therapy to just do things. Wow. And she learned icing. She was a good cook anyway, but she learned icing.

She still does birthday cakes and stuff like that. It was a real route out of a very dark time for her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's amazing. And she's still doing it? Yeah, not less now. She doesn't need to do it now. It was quite compulsive at the time.

It was a thing she had to do to kind of prove she had to give up her job. She was a teacher, so, you know, there was a big gap left. But she filled it. You come from a whole world of a family of academia, like both parents were teachers. Yes, both sisters are teachers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

One of my nieces is a teacher as well. One of my nieces works as a doctor, and one works at British Steel. How amazing. Where did that come from? Was it always English? Did everyone study English? No,

the rest of them were French. Mum and Dad are French teachers and my sister Janet is a French teacher as well. Yeah, there's a lot of French. And did you do what Jesse, Jesse did English at uni.

Oh right. Did you do all that early, the Green Knight? Oh God, Anglo-Saxon. Did you do that? I hated that. Why did they make you do that I hated that why did they

make you do that I don't know I think I suppose it would die otherwise someone's got to enjoy it what was your

dissertation on the Brontes oh okay love the Brontes do you like the Brontes yes yes yes what's your favourite

book oh it's got to be Wuthering Heights really hasn't it it's like yeah would you ever make it

well it's been done hasn't it Kate Mellor did a version of that. No, but do the Russell T Davies. Do you think? Yeah, I suppose. Actually, in a way, I kind of think I've got nothing to say about Wotherwick Heights.

I love it. Okay. But I think the best Wotherwick Heights would be a very classical adaptation, actually. I wouldn't particularly have anything to add to it. Who's been your best Heathcliff? Oh, that's a good question. Oh.

But Tom Hardy would be an amazing Heath Cliff, wouldn't he? Yeah, I think he'd be great. He'd be properly rough. Moody and... Hard. Yeah, yeah. Dangerous. He's going to have that dangerous... Oh, there we go. Okay, I'll do it. Right. It started here. Are you hungry? I'm always hungry. Okay, should we eat a bit? There's never a time

I couldn't eat a meal, to be honest. Okay, amazing. I'm excited to be... Well, it's a funny old time, isn't it? Because you've been working, and then we're eating at about quarter... Well, 2.30, so it's a late lunch. So mum was very particular about not making you have something too heavy

in case you were eating later. You could have made it as heavy as you like. Okay. I would have six meals a day, really. Okay, well, we have two courses. Very foodie family, actually, because of my mother. you like I would have six meals a day really okay well we have two courses actually because of my mother

yes so we do we love our family dinners and Christmas is brilliant with my lot it's like we have such a laugh and the big tables we love it

okay well I want to tell you I'm going to tell you we are having crab cakes oh I love a crab cake I haven't had a crab cake

in a very long time wow I would choose crab cakes on I haven't had a crab cake in a very long time. Wow. I would choose crab cakes on a menu. Oh, well, there you go. No, really. We've got crab cakes with some salads. I buy those tubs in Marks and Spencer's. They do crab meat with a bit of egg on top.

With egg on top? Yes, it's got a bit of... You put the egg on top. Do you know, I think they've stopped selling it, now I think of it. I haven't seen that for a while. Oh, egg on top, gorgeous. What, like grated egg?

Egg mayo? No, a boiled egg that's been not mashed, but cut up into bits. Bits of boiled egg. Oh my God, that sounds delicious. So you're not a good cook. No, I'm all right. You're okay. What would be your dish you're cooking for us?

I would do a Salmon on asparagus What I call my Salmon pork cullis I just put Six asparagus in a row And I put the salmon Fillet on top So it's nice

I cook that nice And how How do Because I always Cock up salmon Is there a particular Time that you do In a particular way

That you do it 20 minutes 20 minutes Unless it's a very thick Fillet Then 25 And it's that Do you cover it So it kind of steams up In very thick filling, then 25 and it's that. Do you cover it so it

kind of steams up? In foil. Yeah, in it goes. That's it. 25, I'd say 25 to be clear. And what would you serve it with? Veg, I eat, I know I don't look particularly healthy, but I eat an extraordinary amount. My husband was very ill for many years, bless him, he's passed away now. I wasn't going to, when he was ill

everyone said, oh put him on a macro diet, put him on a macro diet. I wasn't going to do that because ill everyone said put him on a macro diet put him on a macro diet I wasn't going to do that because I thought in his last few years of life I wanted to have a nice diet but the one thing I did do was say let's have lots of veg

because that's got to be healthy so we ended up having eight veg a night eight eight on a plate eight and I still do that

now he's gone I still have the eight veg a night because that's got to be good for you isn't it absolutely yes it's so that's mad isn't it it's it's it's so that's mad

how did you meet your husband uh out clubbing 10 to 2 in the morning in cruise 101 in manchester what was the song playing do you know i wish i knew if i had a tardis i'd go back and i'd be standing there creepily watching myself like a weirdo but um i don't know i wonder what it was oh he was handsome literally across a crowded floor like and this is my favourite thing it turned out

he lived in Manchester I lived in Manchester it turned out we'd both been going out to the same clubs for ten years and had never seen each other it's not huge

Manchester it's not that big isn't that strange that is strange that we'd walk must have walked past each other a hundred times and yet that night

click how long were you together for? 20 years. Do you want a glass of wine? I'm honestly all right with a cup of tea. Honestly, thank you. I very rarely drink. I like to, but I don't.

Because you've got no strength. Help yourself. I'm going in. And some dill mayonnaise. Or would you like some chilli sauce? Oh, no, I don't do chilli. I'm just going to have a slightly crispy one here because that looks...

When you got married, what was the food? Oh, we just went out for lunch he was very ill and he tricked me into marrying him by dying so I used to

you're allowed to laugh at this because it's like he used to he used to say let's get married for years and I said why

I don't want to get married what nonsense and I treated him he thought it was nonsense then he was dying of cancer will you marry me I couldn't say no. Could I trick him? Russell, don't you want three, darling?

He tricked me. Oh, okay. Is that a lucky number? Yeah. I just want you to have the luck. Of course I will. I want you to... I was just going to come back.

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't stopping there. Would you like some dill mayonnaise? I will have that. Thank you. And, um... No! So I tricked him to marriage.

And, um... Honestly, he was so happy to cancel it four times. Aw. When you cancel a wedding, onest, fe wnes i gansel eich cwrs 4 o amser. Pan fyddwch chi'n cansiol gwrs, mae'n rhaid i chi ddod a chael £70. Ychydig o bryd. Ychydig o bryd. Ie, i'w gwybod beth mae'r cyhoedd yn costio, hyd at y tro ddiwethaf. Ychydig o bryd? Y tro ddiwethaf, fe wnes i'i gansiol, a dywedodd fy ffrind Peter,

byddaf yn gwneud hyn, byddaf yn cansiol i chi. Ac fe wnaethon nhw'i ffonio i'r fwbl ac fe wnaeth y gwbl yn creu. Ac nid oedd hi'n cyfrifol. Nid oedd hi'n cyfrifol. Nid oedd hi'n cyfrifol. A dywedodd, dyna ar y tŷ. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Rwy'n mynd i house. You can have that one. Good. Oh, bless. I'm going in on the crab cake.

Good. Tell me what it's like. Oh, it's lovely. I think a crab cake's better than a fish cake as well. Mm. It's slightly sweeter. You must feel so proud of so many people that you have kind of been so important

in their lives and their careers David Tennant Christopher Eccleston I mean I mean they do all right without me as well but you must feel there's a kind of level of like a teacher that that that that caring there is too yes and and you can't really turn out a night's telly without seeing someone who's been a doctor or someone I know somewhere and and then the opposite is true then you get honoured to work with people like not just Helen Boncarta

but like Penelope Wilton did Doctor Who with us and I adored her oh my god what great company she is oh I love her she's just lucky yeah she's cool are you doing Doctor Who now? I'm back on it

yes yes yes how long has it been since you were off it? I left it in 2009 so 13 years or something so I'm back Yes, yes, yes. How long has it been since you were off it? I left it in 2009. So, 13 years or something. So I'm back. How's it feel? It's lovely.

I only came back because I had things to do. And things I wanted to do to it. And stories I wanted to write. And it doesn't feel like going back. It feels like going forward. But you relaunched it. I mean, it was kind of dead and buried. And then you put your magic to it, and it was great. And that was mad.

Do you remember 2005 when it just went... It was nuts. It was Doctor Who madness. And the funny thing is, it had been... A lot of these things. Crossroads and now Doctor Who. You're reliving your childhood a lot of the time and making sense of it and rewriting it. Mae'r cwrs-rhodd yn ymwneud â'r drws. Rydych chi'n byw yn eich prifysgol yn llawer o'r amser, ac yn gwneud syniad o'r peth a'i ail-ddychwelio. Ac mae'r ffaith fy mod i'n hoffi'r sioe honno fy nghymru o'r bywyd, ac mae'n fy marn i'r bywyd cyntaf, nid dim dim fy marn i'r telefisio, ond fy marn i'r bywyd cyntaf yn gwylio William Hartnell yn Rhegenerate. Gallaf gofio'r peth. Felly, dyna'r hyn,

ymwybodwch i'r holl blynyddoedd yna, yn 2009, mae'n dod i'w wneud. Mae'n dod i fod yn y sioe nifer un yng Nghymru. all those years later in 2005, I get to make it. It becomes the number one show in Britain. It's like, how lucky am I? I'm very, very, very lucky. I'm very, very talented. You're not very lucky, you're talented. Thank you. So it's Doctor Who at the moment? Yes, for years, I think, actually. I'll have to spend years on that.

So there won't be any other projects? Not for a while. Oh, Russell. Sorry, I know. Time to give these young things a bit of space. No. Sorry. No, it'll be a while. Don't worry. I'm already talking about know. Time to give these young things a bit of space. No. Sorry. No, it'll be a while.

Don't worry. It's like I'm already talking about things that will get made. Don't worry. As if you're worried. Did it feel... I am worried. Did it feel kind of, I mean, brilliant, but overwhelming, the reaction to It's a Sin?

I mean... To this day, I find it strange. We all do. The hard thing is, the weird thing is, we're all so proud of it. Yeah. And it's literally life-changing for us. And I my life had changed did it go down well in the states yeah it did it's like it's been very successful and but it's so hard to celebrate because it's so sad

yeah and and never mind how sad the drama is the real life stories are not just sad but infuriating so do you know what we've never actually all of us gone out for dinner we kept on saying let's go for dinner and go hooray well done and and but it's very hard to go hooray about it which i'm dying to in many ways but equally then you go wow it's so awful what happened imagining the family of someone who lost their lives in that way and there are still problems now with hiv and you see someone cheering about it so it it's an odd one. Yeah. It's really odd. But we are so delighted. We are properly passionate friends, all of us, for life. It's gorgeous.

Just say la. La. Because we used to do that, me and my friends. I know. I almost cut that in the last minute. I sat watching the edits going, does that work? Aww. No, I said, is that too much do you like

watching people having an in joke on screen I had a real debate with myself thank god we left it in I think that's

what's so beautiful about it there was so much of your best friend you know it was that language

friendship yeah which is we don't often see actually good thank you you have been so lovely about it we loved it

it was kind of astonishingly wonderful do you feel like you now have to write in a kind of activist or campaign I mean you know Nolly is a brilliant three parter which is about a woman who is about you know, it's about misogyny, it's about

it's about sexism, it's about strong, you know, it's it's making a point and shining a light on an imbalance and injustice much like It's The Cinemas, do you feel like you're going to, do you feel

like you have to do this now? No, i feel like whatever i write about i turn that way okay i'm like an armchair activist i'm probably quite lazy in many ways but i get very angry about a lot of things very angry very angry and that's part i don't just write out of anger i write out of many reasons i just love it i write it with joy as well, I think. But there is a lot of... If it's a Doctor Who script, it starts coming out no matter what. It's just my natural bent is to do that and to find things to say. And actually, I think that's when I'm writing

well. So we've got your dish. No, but what would your mum make? Besides our cebuco. Anything. In the 60s, we'd have spaghetti bolognese. We didn't do that then. Spaghetti bolognese.

She was just... You had to go and buy garlic from a special shop. I know, it's not amazing. Can you imagine? How would you have managed, darling? I wouldn't have smelt like garlic the other night, would I? I remember the first Chinese takeaway to arrive in Swansea and that was so

tantalising and amazing. We ran there. It was posh. To have a Chinese takeaway then was posh because it was foreign and different and marvellous. Oh my god. So let's give some shout outs to some of your favourite Manchester and Swansea eats.

Places that you like to go. My favourite eating in Swansea is a brilliant, cheap and cheerful, is it Turkish restaurant called the Mediterranean in the Mumbles? Where I know our tablecloth, cheap red wine, you know, and a cheap red glass. And just lovely. What's your order? I will have, there's your order? I will have, there's an order

where you can have all the meats. Oh yeah. Mixed grill. We love a mixed grill in this house. With the rice. They put also in there.

My friend is gluten free. She said, hello I'm gluten free. He said, you can't have the rice then. Yeah, because they have the little bits of also in it.

Why do they put the also in it? Because it's nice. Because it's nice. It's hidden isn't it? You wouldn't know. Yeah, it's cheeky. Oh, there's also in the right. We've got the Mediterranean in Swansea.

What about Manchester? Manchester, there's a Spanish tapas place called El Gato Negro. And where's that? Middle of town. King Street, Middle of town. Gorgeous. Is that where Elizabeth's taken me? Oh, I like that place.

And you can sit upstairs. Yes, you can sit by the kitchen. And it's quite dark wood. Yeah, me and my sister sat in the kitchen a bit. She watched them cook everything. Then she went home and duplicated it all. And it's quite dark wood. Yeah. Me and my sister sat in the kitchen a bit and she watched them cook everything and then she went home and duplicated it all. And it's lovely.

I love that. Properly nice. Nice staff, friendly, funny. Yeah. And Sugo. Have you been to Sugo? No. It's such good pasta.

Oh. Oh my God. Sugo. Is that in Manchester? Sugo, yeah. See, I'm out of town. Do you know what me and my sisters do now? What?

We've started over the past few years. You know when you read about those really posh places online where they say you have to book a year in advance? Oh. So we booked a year in advance. Oh. Yn ystod y diwrnod yma, mi a fy mab a fi yn gwneud hynny nawr. Yn ystod y diwrnod yma, mi a fy mab a fi yn gwneud hynny nawr. Rydych chi'n gwybod pan rydych chi'n darllen am y lleoedd mor ffosg yn y gweinidog lle mae'n dweud bod angen i chi ffosg y flwyddyn yn cynnwys. Felly fe ffosgom y flwyddyn yn cynnwys. Rydych chi'n gwneud hynny. Felly mae'n deimlad sy'n dod i'r llaw. Mae hynny'n sylw gwych. Felly rydym yn mynd i Long Coom.

Yn Fawr. Pan ffosgwyd hynny? Llyfr y flwyddyn yn ôl. Roeddem yn mynd i Copenhagen a Gerenium. Roeddech chi wedi mynd i... Dwi'n teimlo. Rydyn ni wedi mynd i... Rydyn ni wedi mynd i Copenhagen a rydyn ni wedi mynd i Gerinium. Nid oeddet ti'n mynd i Noma? Nid oedd, roedd Gerinium. Oedd yn unigol iawn.

A byddwn yn gwneud hynny. Wel, a ydych chi'n barod i rai puding? Ie. Iawn, gwych. Felly, Mam, beth yw hyn? Mae hyn yn ricotta al limoni. Ie, i mi? Rwy'n credu.

Efallai. Ricotta, beth, Duda? Dweud eto. Ricotta al limoni. Felly, mae'n ffansi... Ricotta a lemon....semaen. Ricotta a lemon. R Say again Ricotta al limone So it's like a fancy Lemon cheesecake

Yeah kind of So is it a bit like The Pizza Express cheesecake That you used to get? Maybe Okay amazing You could have gone deeper I'll give you more

I'm complaining We need to know Your last supper Do you want raspberries? My last supper Darling raspberries Yes please He wants everything mum Have you not realised? And do you want raspberries my last supper darling raspberries yes please you want everything mum

have you not have you not realised and do you want do you want mascarpone or fresh cream or a bit of both or a bit of both hey

I knew you'd want that that's the family answer yeah yeah do you want cream ice cream custard or cream all three please that's me

so your last supper your last gosh your last supper. Gosh. Your last supper. A starter, a main, and a pud, and a drink of choice. And one person that you're going to choose to have your last supper with. Oh, wow. Hooray.

For a starter, I will... Do you know I love a prawn cocktail? Love a prawn cocktail. I do too. Love the Mary Rose sauce and the crispy lettuce. Have you had a good one recently? I haven't had one for a while maybe Susie needs to make them yes she can make anything

that's a task that's a nice start the main I'd probably go for like oh thank you darling I'd probably have a roast chicken dinner that's gorgeous isn't it yeah I love roast chicken dinner that's gorgeous isn't it yeah I love roast chicken dinner

yeah and again my family does cauliflower cheese with that see that debate this week about would you have cheese with a roast that's been a thing on the radio too Zoe Ball has been discussing there's someone who grates cheese over their roast dinner oh hang on

grates cheese over it I mean look it probably would work well I'm sitting thinking we have cauliflower cheese with our dinner that's very true

and that's the same but it's not like a spag bol is it it is a bit odd do you want some yes please but a little sliver please Zoe's conclusion was

that's too strange okay fine I must listen to Zoe you're a radio 2 fan in all things I am yes I love Zoe Ball I love Zoe Ball.

I love her too. Way ago, when we were both... She was like an 18-year-old researcher at Granada. Oh, really? When I was working there, yeah. I went to her 20th birthday party. We haven't... I'd see her now and again. We're not best friends or anything,

but I adore her. I think she's lovely. She's really, really is lovely and completely genuine. Yes, yes, yes. Is that boring, going for a roast? No, it's quite common. I love it. It's not boring. Yeah, yes, yes. Is that boring going for a roast? No, it's quite common. It's not boring.

Yeah, it might have been common, but you've got to be honest, Tiffany. Bangers and mash as well is lovely. With an onion gravy? Yeah, yeah.

And a mustard? Not so much a mustard, to be honest. No. My kids are really into Yorkshire pudding, so I feel like I should be starting to do

Toad in the Hole for them. Is it nice? Is it nice? Oh, this is lovely pudding is it nice pudding is very simple Joe's ice cream from Swansea I love ice cream full stop Joe's ice cream there's a shop called there's an old establishment in Swansea an old-fashioned ice cream parlour which has been there always all my life it's been it's from 1922 it was founded. Joe's Ice Cream. They only do vanilla. It's just one, but well, they now have a little. Joe's must do the best vanilla.

If they've got an ice cream parlour with only vanilla. Simply amazing. They've now bowed to the tourist trade. They have a little tub where they have mint and chocolate and things like that. But it's really simple. We don't talk about that. Swayze people don't go to that part of the shop. How do you have yours? In a cone or do you get a tub?

Just a tub. You might put some... Sometimes you put some raspberry sauce on it. Sometimes you put some chocolate sauce on it. What do you think, Jessie? It's delicious. This is lovely. Have you never...

No, I've never made it. But Joe's ice cream parlor in Swansea. I feel like it should be on every tourist destination. In the summer, you'd have to queue to get in there. It's so famous in Swansea. It's summer you'd have to queue to get in there. It's just so famous, this onesie. It's like, my house is just up the hill. How convenient that they film all the time in Cardiff now, eh? I know, it's very convenient.

Can I have a bit more if you want? Honestly, I'm... It is exactly what I'd be looking for. Do you need another cup of tea again to go with it? I like Luquor tea. Oh, really? I'll happily drink this. Sorry, is that what you offered me?

I really happily drink that. No, we're not offering you at all. No, I love you. I love that you... Yes, I love you. That's tasty. I want to know what your drink of choice would be and who you would like to spend your last supper with.

Drink of choice wouldn't be booze. I'd have a cup of tea. I always had to do when I came out walking, I'd have a cup of tea everywhere. What's your tea bag? Plain old Tetley. Oh, Tetley. Simple old Tetley. Oh Tetley. Simple old Tetley.

But for Christmas my niece bought me 1,000 tea bags of Tetley. A giant bag bigger than my head of Tetley.

My favourite present. And I'm keeping a tally on it to see if I start it on New Year's Day. How long do you have your tally? I wonder.

I start it on New Year's Day I'll come back to you with this information. Yeah I want to know how long it would take. Well I think I have about New Year's Day. I'll come back to you with this information. Where did I go for the last one? Yeah, I want to know how long it would take. Well, I think I have about four cups of tea a day. How many tea bags is it? Which is a thousand.

So do you have coffee as well? I do. So you're like amped up all day, Russell. That's my favourite place in the world. I go to a cafe every day and so on. So I go to a cafe called Mumbles Coffee. Mumbles Coffee. With the nicest coffee I've ever had in the world.

With the nicest staff. What's your order? Just delightful. Oat Flat White. Oh, get you. I love that. Which I call an Oti Mabuse. I walk in,

I go, Oti Mabuse. Oti Mabuse. And they know me. They just make the Oat Flat White. And off they go with the nicest staff. Lovely boys and girls. That's my favourite place

in the world, actually. And my husband loved it there. It's very sentimental to me because it was his favourite place to go and sit. It's like living in a sitcom cafe. It's like all the regulars come in, they're all nuts and brilliant and funny and it's a nice place.

Do you like oat milk? I didn't put you down as an oat milk. No, one of the baristas, Morgan, my good friend Morgan, the barista, talked me through the oatiness, talked me through real milk. And? I had no choice in the end.

Well, I should also add he's very good looking. I'll do whatever he says. real milk and I had no choice in the end. Well, I should also add he's very good looking. I'll do whatever he says. Who's your favourite person you've worked with besides the whole cast of It's The Same? Oh, that's hard because

they all... Who's being invited to a dinner party at Russell's? I can't do this. Almost all actors are lovely. Really. You've met people. They're nice aren't they? It's a laugh. I like them when they're tense.

I like them when they're high maintenance. I understand that. Yeah, because it's their face on screen. I feel I can sit there and type and they've got to go do it in front of a camera I admire them for doing it I love them

it's my favourite I love Leslie Sharp I've had a lovely friendship with Leslie Sharp over the years because which one did you do Bob and Rose

we did a lot she did Bob and Rose and she did The Second Coming and she did Doctor Who with me so I've kind of poor Leslie I think I've exhausted her now

but I adore her yeah lots of them David Tennant oh my god Catherine Tate see I'm leaving billy pipe i'm leaving people out now stop it yeah yeah yeah i need to know who you'd share your last supper with i know can i bring my husband back yeah it'd be me and andrew sitting there and you know what we do off everything we just sit and watch tv and that was our favorite nights that we just sit in love we'd laugh so much he had such a good sense of humor. What was his job?

He was a customs officer. Bless him. He was a civil servant. Customs officer. And, yeah. And just the desk job, really. He did some years at the airport, checking people and searching them.

But no, he just... He was the person in charge of Europe's list of non-ozone depleting substances. Christ. That's a niche. I put that in his... How do they cope now? What's happening with the ozone depleting? No wonder the world's going to pot.

No one's in charge of the list. Lenny, what are we going to do? It's like, I'd love to get an ozone depleting substance. You can't get them for love nor money. But it's an ozone depleting substance. I don't know them for love nor money. Well, isn't ozone depleting substance? I don't know. I never asked him. Isn't it just spraying? Excuse me, it was all about me. I didn't ask him what it meant. I just love

rattling that off. Ozone depleting substances. The European list. I presume with Brexit, that's gone, actually. They don't care. They won't let it in. If you weren't watching the telly, what song would be playing? Ooh. The ba-ba-ba-ba.

Right now, it's that Lionheart by Joel Corey. I can't stop listening to it. I can't stop. It's kind of carved its way into my head, that song. Joel Corey does that to a lot of people. Oh, it's... Who is he, darling? You'd know if you heard it.

It's quite anthemic. It's in a chance now. Or has been at Christmas. And I'm so obsessed with it. I had to go online and buy every mix of it. Even the England World Cup mix. There's a mix where they go, England! Stop, Russell!

Just because I had to have variation from it. The biggest John Corrie fan is Russell T. Davis. Do you listen to pop music? I do, a lot. Do you? Yeah, I love pop. I put a lot of pop music into my stuff. Yeah, totally.

And I specifically like pop. Pete Pafferty, you know Pete Pafferty? He was Catlin Moran's husband. Yeah. He identified my musical taste. He said, oh, you actually like Euro pop. And I was quite insulted for a while. But I didn't realise what Euro pop meant.

Euro pop means good pop. And I associated it with Euro pudding or something. But he meant you're a proper Euro pop fan of your Abba's and your Britney Spears are the best have you seen Abba

no I must go to that oh you really should only Doctor Who gets a mention at the beginning doesn't it if there's a little speech

oh yeah he says like Doctor Who but go to travelling time like that that was my accent it's so amazing I know last question

what is a taste that can take you back to somewhere in an instant or a smell of food? It's going to be Joe's ice cream again. Joe's ice cream? I know. It's such a very...

I think it's ice cream with condensed milk in it. That's all. You know, it's like a secret recipe. Yeah. No one knows how to make it. And also, my grandmother in 1912, she was engaged to Joe Cascarini. Joe as in Joe the ice cream guy.

And then broke up with him we could have been ice cream shit you would have been an ice cream family

yeah imagine you'd be a maid in Chelsea there would have been any scripts there would have

been a lot of ice cream but William Boyd's book Ice Cream Wars do you remember that in Scotland well there must

be a better answer to that question no I mean I quite something else any other taste of that in Scotland. Well, there must be a better answer to that question. No, I mean, I quite... Something else? Any other taste? Just... When you were living in your flat and going lark all the time,

what were you eating? Oh, that's when I was a rubbish cook. That's when I'd have, like, a tin of tuna. Do you know what I like? Tinned, boiled potatoes. Oh, they're gorgeous. Gorgeous? Yeah.

How would you cook them? You don't. You have them cold at the tin. Oh, my God, no. Oh, my God. Have you not ever had that? No. Oh, they're tasty.

Do they still mate then? They do. Yes, yes, yes. Have you still got them in your cupboard? No, I don't anymore. Yeah, so. But have a little cup. There'll be a night.

I'm going to go out and buy that now. And I'll do it. Full of Bajos. I think sometimes they have a mint taste they're kind of slightly minted as well. No, no, no I've never had them.

They have a very starchy boiled taste to them which is delicious. Oh my god I'll eat it now. After this meal

I'll eat it now. The tin was put in front of me and you said you've got to eat that I have no problem. Dear oh dear. I've lost you right at the end. And now it's mine to eat to eat that, I have no problem. Dear oh dear. I've lost you right at the end.

And now it's time to leave. So that room's gone now. Ross and TJ, thank you so much. Go and have a rest before tonight. Go and rest. And I wish you all the best with Nolly, because I think it's really good telly. And it's great performances.

And there's such warmth and support for this. It's a laugh, isn't it as well yeah I think I think we're almost in danger of like talking about the issues behind it and ignoring the fact

that it's a laugh it is it's a right old proper laugh and like there's some fantastic monologues yeah like Helena has a few monologues

there's some audition pieces on there and you're yes audition pieces it's really such a fantastic watch and I wish you

all the best and obviously Doctor Who we're all very excited about it that's going to be fun thank you so much I've loved this

thank you for doing this and I do feel bad that you've got a bloody screen now we've given him a rest but I'm like what every Sunday now

come on I lived in London I'd be do come we do good Rose if you need to just be in London for a bit, but you need a home-cooked meal,

we've got you. Just come. Well, I could have had him here for another two days. I hoped he'd move in. I think he was knocking on all the wood. I think that was wishing him luck for getting the invite back. He's so warm and talented and lovely and generous. Just a gorgeous, gorgeous man.

Thank you so much to Russell T Davies for coming here when he's got such a busy day. He's going off to a screening now at the BFI. He's been on Loose Women. He's had his fair share of mouthy women with him today. I thought you were going to say fish cakes then. He did like the fish cakes. He did like my crab cakes, darling. They were really good, Mum.

They were delicious, weren't they? But do you know what? Can I just say something? What? The crab meat is so expensive. They were eight pounds. One little pot was eight pounds. Oh.

So that was 24 quid. And you used three pots. I really liked it. I liked the mayonnaise with the dill. The dill mayonnaise made it, actually. Did you put onions in the mayonnaise? Or was it literally dill and mayonnaise? But there onions in the crab cakes i really finely chopped loved it okay so you think it's worth doing again really liked it what about the ricotta

al limone i like that whose recipe was that i found it on the internet in italian and i got it translated oh mom really. Was it easy? Yeah. How do you do it? So it's just egg yolks with only 100 grams of sugar. Oh, fab. It's good for you. And half a juice of a lemon.

I would have put a whole lemon in. Yes, I think it could have been more lemony. But it had two zest, two lemon zest in it. And then you separate the egg, the whites, and then you just, put the the egg yolks the sugar and the lemon add the ricotta and it wasn't that tall no add the ricotta it only was three eggs so you if you wanted to make it bigger you should have doubled it but it said to make it thin i thank you for listening i I thank Russell T Davies.

And thank you mum for cooking such a lovely lunch. Pleasure. Have you got anything to say to your fans? No. It's look out on Instagram and TikTok. For the new generation of Table Manners. Oh God don't. I'm TikTok-ing.

Anybody got any content they'd like to see Lenny doing. Please email us at hello at tablemannerspodcast.com and look out for my new leopard print knife it is a good knife isn't it

yeah bloody cut your finger yeah it's really sharp anyway we'll see you next week Bye.