Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 1: Miriam Margolyes

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

We’re back! We’ve made it all the way to Series 16 and we’re bringing you a corker for our first episode in the shape of the iconic Miriam Margolyes! Never in the history of Table Manners have we had a guest with so much… wind…! Despite that, Miriam was a true delight, sharing stories of the food her mummy made her while growing up, where to find the best ice cream in Clapham, and the unbelievable revelation that she has never liked bagels as ’the hole is wasted bread’! Miriam is now my new best friend and I know you’re all incredibly jealous. She was a hoot along with 4 toots! Miriam’s new book ‘Oh Miriam’ is available to purchase everywhere now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

hello and welcome to table manners series 16 we are back and we are about to deliver you potentially the best series of all who knows mum and i are across the pond as we give you this introduction but we are so excited about the guests that we have coming up on season 16. Mother, it's a good one. I think it's a really fabulous one. Can I just point out we're not with each other. You're on the East Coast and I'm on the West Coast at the moment. International jet setters.

I've got sunshine. How about you, darling? I've got the fall. I have the fall in abundance. And you have my chest infection. So I'm sorry about that. I've got your cold that you left me with in LA but it's still 80 degrees here and it's sunny and I'm in all my summer clothes which is wonderful because I think it's a bit cold in London. So we've recorded a load of this series and before I went on tour and my mum went to Los Angeles. So we will be seeing you through until Christmas time with a whole new series.

And first up, we have an absolute... Well, I don't know what to say. Well, I think corker would be a very appropriate word because there are lots of corkers in this one. She trumps a lot of other people. And we were blown away by this guest. And we were blown away by this guest. Here is the beginning of Table Manners Season 16 with Jessie Ware and Lenny Ware.

Are you ready? Dinner is served. Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I've just nearly been stabbed by my mother. Well, no, I have been stabbed by my mother. And we've got evidence. Sorry, where is it? Have you got a injury? You're lucky. It was a mere nick. Look. Oh my God, I'm sorry. Was that because I had the knife in my hand upwards? Yes. I think you need to go on a bloody health and safety thing in the kitchen, Mum. You know not to point knives at people. Darling, I was in the middle of trying to get a whole big brisket out. Which is delicious.

I hope. Death by brisket. Happy Jewish New Year. Hello, so we're recording this and it is Jewish New Year tomorrow, Rosh Hashanah. And we thought because we're hosting a Jew that you've met

at 41 years ago. 41 years ago you met in a synagogue. Yeah. She may not recall this. She might not. We thought we'd do a little early Rosh Hashanah dinner. So, you have been cooking, thank you. What have you made?

Well, first of all, she's partial to a radish. So I've made some radishes with aioli. You got radishes, big ones. Oh, yeah, I bought radish, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I got radishes, ones oh yeah i bought radish yeah yeah okay i got radishes i didn't grow them no and then i've made an aioli dip and then i've made brisket cooked in coca-cola didn't we do that for derma o'leary no we did short ribs short ribs for him have we done brisket for i don't think i've ever done it for anyone it's delicious anyway so i've done brisket for? I don't think I've ever done it for anyone. I think you have. It's delicious.

Anyway, so I've done brisket. I've made a potato kugel. For the Gentiles out there, what is a kugel? A kugel is a potato pudding. And so I've made potato pudding. Which is just grated potato, onion. Grated potato, onion and eggs. Eggs. It is in our cookbook, darling.

Which I've had to follow today because I got the recipe for the brisket and Coca-Cola. I did add some Dijon mustard and I made coleslaw because you said it would go nicely. I'm not sure it does go that well. I thought you were doing cabbage. No, I've done coleslaw because you've seen the coleslaw. I think that's going to be fine. Have you got pickles? Yeah.

And then for dessert. So yesterday I went to a friend's house for lunch. And she made some. It was so delicious. It was apple that was very lightly stewed with blackberries. And lemon zest and lemon. And she'd refrigerated it overnight in little glasses. And we had it with Greek yogurt

and it was so delicious that I thought I'll make that because I had all the apples that Sam had given me from your tree. So I've cooked those, cooked them with blackberries. She even loaned me her glasses that she puts them in and actually I've bought them now because I think they're really handy little round glasses and you have been to Narduli's, haven't you? Yeah, after reading our guest's memoir, I saw that one of her greatest joys is ice cream.

And in particular, an ice cream that is on the pavement. I don't mean on the pavement. It's called The Pavement. The Pavement is in Clapham. And so we just passed there and got her favourite coffee ice cream from Narduli's. Can I tell you what the queues were like last week outside there? I've already spoken to Yuri, the guy that was on the tills, 11 hours over the weekend he said he had queues for 11 hours. 11 hours. So we've got the coffee ice cream that Miriam loves from her favourite spot, just to really, you know, bed in with her.

She clearly loves Clapham because she's always lived here. And she mentioned in an interview about Cher Thai, a fabulous Thai restaurant in Clapham that I now go to probably every other week. It's just fantastic Thai food. And Miriam goes there a lot. I mean, whether you have kind of grown up meeting her in synagogue or watching her on your screens or in the theatre, or whether you're new to Miriam, thanks to the Vogue interview, we are thrilled to have Miriam Margulies coming on the podcast to talk about food, to talk about her new memoir, O Miriam.

It's her second book. And to talk about how she keeps on getting more and more wanted and sought after and celebrated. I'm so excited to meet her. Miriam Margulis, coming up on Table Room. Miriam's ready for the meal too I love this so Miriam I don't know if they've told you

about, we're just going to have dinner and we're going to talk and when I've said to people that we're chatting to you it's like everyone's losing their mind, their shit. So it's a real thrill to meet you and have dinner with you. I'm truly, I'm a little old lady. Oh, shit.

No, but that is true. You know, we've met before. What? Are you at the show? Were you at the show? Well, I was at Bolingbroke Shore. No. 41 years ago.

I was pregnant with my oldest daughter. Not me. And the older one and they you and I were the youngest in the synagogue so I said go and sit next to Miriam and so I sat next to you and you said to me why don't you join the synagogue I was very pregnant it was September and she was born in December and i said the thing is my husband's not jewish and you said to me i'm a lesbian which which i could only respond is she jewish because i didn't know what else and she isn't she is and you said no she isn't it's all right i'm a member yeah and you know that sh. I know. And then the next shul... No, the next shul, I was told to join Chelsea.

Oh, it's smart. I never went. Why? Not once. I didn't feel Chelsea-ish. And so in the end, I left Chelsea, never having gone, and I joined Liam Court Road in Stretton. Oh, and now that's...

Now that's just closed. It's just closed. I swear I'm signed up to the Liberal Synagogue in Stretton. Oh, and now that's just closed. It's just closed. I swear I'm signed up to the Liberal Synagogue in Streatham. No, that's the Liberal Synagogue. You drive under a box of flats, don't you? And it's at the back of flats. Yes, and they were sweet. Here's a radish.

Oh, you're a pal. And I made you some aioli in case you wanted to have a dip. I've never done that. Well, maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. Oh, I love you. What do you mean to have a dip. I've never done that. Well, maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. Oh, I love you. What do you mean? I love you. I love...

Is it too garlicky? How can anything be too garlicky? No, that's not. That's true. It's true. I mean, she eats raw onions, Mum. She's fine. You like raw onions?

You don't like raw onions? No. I don't mind them in grease, actually. They're a bit sweeter. What do you think? That's good. Oh, good. How did you get that?

It's with egg yolk, olive oil, garlic and some lemon. You can take it home with you. I'll put it in a jar. Do you mean that? I promise you. She's Jewish. Of course she means it. I'll give you anything. You're having brisket. Do you want to know what you. She's Jewish. Of course she means it. I'll give you anything.

You're having brisket. Do you want to know what the menu is? No. Okay, fine. I like it to be a surprise. Okay, fine. So which shul will you go to now? Well, I've been going to the Chabad.

Oy vey. The Lubavitch. How do you get on with the Chabad? I feel like that could be really interesting, the conversations you two would have. The rabbi is a very nice young American, Moshe Adler. His wife is from Manchester, and they are sweet, sweet people. They're all sweet Lubavitch, I think. And, you know, I don't understand what they're saying, because I don't speak Hebrew.

But they're nice, and she cooks well. Where do you go for this? Where is the Chabad? Well, they're getting a special place, but I've always been to the Pastana Hotel. What's that? So you're going to a shul that's in a hotel, and you can get your spicy tomato juice if you want it. That's lovely. Good.

I've never had that before. Well, I just thought it might be... Jessie wanted me to make a green goddess one, but I don't really know what that was. What is that? Well, it's a dip that I thought could go quite nicely with the radish and it's kind of herby and delicious,

but this is doing the job, so we're fine. That's lovely. So for anybody that doesn't know our non-jewish listeners may not know what lubovitch or chabad are so which of you well they're proselytizing they're about the only branch of judaism that are proselytizing really that they encourage membership they encourage membership yeah they but they are so sweet yeah and they go like missionaries the old-fashioned missionary to far distant places so how did you find they're all

from brooklyn yeah right so you know he talks like that they're like jehovah's witnesses only jewish so why were you attracted to that form of judo you you used to go to conservative shawls and is that united you used to did you grow up i was did you grow up with that then is that why i was a very typical english jewish person yeah but much later on i became more independent. I've turned against circumcision. Yeah, I understand that. I didn't circumcise my boys. Jessie's just had her bat mitzvah. Mazel tov! Really?

I had it in December. I learnt because I felt like I needed to. I think I should do that. Who's going to do the catering for your bat mitzvah? You. I'll do it. Okay. That's the deal. You get bat mitzvahed and I'll cater. Do you like Jewish food? Come on. What are you talking about? It's the Pope Catholic. Cool. So what's your favourite? What's a memory from your childhood that

revolved around Jewish food? Well, I suppose mummy's chicken soup. Was it the best? Yes, because in those days chickens were better. Were they? Of course. Most people these days, they buy, you know, from a supermarket, the battery-reared chicken. I belong to compassion in world farming and I don't like anything that makes animals' lives difficult or cruel

just to please us Have you ever seen a battery chicken's life? No Don't It's miserable Because you'll never eat another chicken So where do you get your chicken from? Well, I haven't eaten chicken for a while,

but I get it from places that sell proper free range. Proper free range. And where did you grow up? I grew up in Oxford. I was born in Oxford. Was it a happy childhood? Very. Who was round the dinner table?

Well, a very small number of people, because it was just me, Mummy and Daddy. And what were their jobs? Did they work, both of them? Daddy was a doctor, GP, from Glasgow, so he had a very sweet Scottish accent, actually. A very nice man. And Mummy was born in Liverpool but grew up in London. And we were, I described it in my first book, I said we were a fortress.

Mummy said this is a fortress, fortress family. And that's what it was like. She was very hospitable, and we always had people for Christmas dinner. And they were people who were lonely or had nowhere else to go. So she was a very sweet, generous person. How did your mother and father, your father a doctor, your your mother did she work well she didn't work in she was a self-employed buyer of houses and letter of flats to students okay she made money in that way so i grew up with the knowledge that it was possible to own more than one house oh and do you i do i fell in love with houses i love houses

so i have four and a half um what's the half is it a flat yeah are they all in clapham no okay but you love clapham i used to loveham. You always are promoting Clapham things. I liked it before it became funky and expensive. Do you think it's funky? I don't think it's funky. I'm afraid to let you know that I think it's not very funky. But it is expensive. But we have Narduli ice cream.

Well, I... I nearly stopped on the way to get some. Don't worry, I stopped for you. Did you really? I did love you girl I got you your coffee ice cream no of course I did how did you know that I well I read the beginning of your book

and I got it sent yesterday so I'm apologising but I did get to the ice cream bar and so I got you coffee, but shout out to Yuri. Have you met Yuri? He's very handsome. No.

And he had a nightmare in the heatwave. He said it was 11-hour queues. He was helping me. I said, there's a big fan of your coffee ice cream. I need a tub of it. He said, before you just commit to the full tub, do you want to try the tiramisu? I said, yes.

It was delicious. So I've done two-thirds you want to try the tiramisu i said yes it was delicious so i've done two-thirds coffee one-third tiramisu in case i could convince you that maybe the tiramisu is maybe better than the coffee no you you enjoy your tiramisu i will for me it's coffee fine you got it this one well this is kugel which you will know what kugel is. Do you know I've never had it? Haven't you? Call yourself a Jew? Well, not a kugel Jew. What's a kugel?

So do you cook Jewish food? No. I don't cook anything. Don't you? No. I never have. I ask people to cook for me, and I pay people to cook for me. And what's on your wish list?

Like what's been on Miriam's wish list this week for what somebody's cooking you? Well, a friend came round yesterday and cooked me salmon. Lovely. Oh my God. So this is brisket cooked in Coca-Cola and... Coca-Cola? Yeah. Coca-Cola, lots of onions, because I know you like onions,

but I didn't know that they needed to be raw. They don't need to be. Okay. And then you've got potato kugel, potato pudding, which Miriam's never had. But how am I going to eat with this fucking microphone in the middle? Move it, darling. Don't worry.

It's so nice of you to ask me are you kidding no i'm thrilled oh that's so nice i mean i'm plenty oh no a bit more hold on i want to get the onions and the juice mum you may have to be one of um miriam's meals on wheels she could rotate you know we could have dinner every week. We only live nearby. Well, the thing is, now I've met you, because I didn't know you before, I really like you. Oh, thank God.

And I really want to see you again. You don't always have to cook for me, but mostly. Well, you know what? You know what? Mum said that you wrote about a tie in Clapham that she started going to. Oh, it's brilliant. And I've never been.

Yes, fabulous. Aren't they excellent? Excellent. Would you like some coleslaw as well? Well, yes, but maybe I should have it on a separate. Okay, we can have it on a separate. I don't want to get it mixed up with the gravy. Well, I did say this to Jessie, and Jessie said no.

I think it's better. I thought a coleslaw was nice with it, but mum said I think it's weird with the sauce, so mum may be right. That is delicious. Is it good? Good. Mmm. Would you like a bit of salt and pepper?

Are you okay? Yeah, perfect. I love you. This is great. We're going to have a really good time eating together. I think we will. We will. Of course we will.

Do you want to help yourself? Thanks, Mum. So you don't cook, but you get people that love you to come round and cook for you maybe. Yes. Or you'll eat out. I don't eat out very much. Right, okay. Don't enjoy it?

Well, sometimes you have to wait too long. You like your grub straight away. Well, when I'm hungry, I want to be fed. Yeah. But this is really outstanding. Oh, God, you're so sweet. Maybe we'll have to do Pesach together. Yeah.

Everything together. Can you read Hebrew? No. Nothing. Well, I can read it, but I don't know what I'm saying. That's why I've got everything together. Can you read Hebrew? No. Nothing. Well, I can read it. I don't know what I'm saying. That's why I've got to learn. Well, we're talking the day, the era of, well, no, tomorrow is, is tomorrow Russia? No.

No, Saturday is Russia. Friday is era. Is it really? Yeah. So have you got any plans for? No. You want to? But Saturday night, I think I'm, am I doing a show Saturday night in Nottingham?

I think I am. Oh. I'm going to be all on my own in Nottingham and nobody to talk to. Oh, I think you'll find somebody that wants to speak to you, Miriam. I'm going to advertise. I tell you what, though, I am making chicken soup tomorrow. No, you aren't. Are you honest?

Oh, yeah. And I would say... It's good. It's great. It's great. It's good. My matzo balls are outstanding, I think. I would have made it tonight, but I'm... anyway, I'm making it and I will send some round to you.

I've come and fetched you in the car. I drive. Okay. I don't feel like you're going to have any problem finding somebody to hang out with you in Nottingham because let's face it you're more popular than ever that's true how is that?

wait a minute there we go don't be quiet afterwards no we're not Jessie did say to me she wondered if you would do that. Well, I did. So now you know.

I warned. So, Miriam, do you think you've got good table manners? Usually. Very good. Is that a sign of you enjoying your meal? Very much. Do you feel like you only fart when you feel like you're with your best friends or you'll fart anywhere?

That is a lie because you farted in the queue of Dolly Parton's Meet and Greet. Well that was because it was building. You know. What the fart? Yeah I've been standing there for 45 minutes. That had some real, that did have some weight like trumpet on it. I respect

that. It had projection and oomph and chutzpah. Well, I'm like that when there's a microphone, you know. You're just naughty. A little bit. This is outstanding. I love you. So, you have friends, darling friends that cook for you.

I've got two lodgers. Have you? Mm-hm. How do you find your lodgers? Through my recording engineer, when I record books. Oh, yeah? Rowan. Yeah?

He's a wonderful recording engineer. And I told him that I needed to have people staying in my house. I didn't want to be alone. And he found me these two gorgeous people. One's gay and one's straight and I just love them both very much they're very very nice young people do they look after you a bit like do they make sure they do they do look up I mean they're absolutely not carers they've got their own pursuits and so on but it's like having a family and it's so lovely i i like being with people

so will you share dinners together and talk about your days and george makes some of the most wonderful coffee and walnut cake oh how fabulous it really is wonderful how old is george he's about he's about 30 oh it's a bit young for me. Oh, I think so. Miriam, are you in love? I'm in love with my partner, and I have been for 54 years. So your partner doesn't live with you? We don't live together because we're both professional women. She is a historian and an academic,

and I'm an actress and a documentarian now. Her work is in Indonesian and Dutch and so she lives in Amsterdam but we try to be together as much as possible, especially in Italy. But didn't she used to live in Australia as well? Well, she is Australian, but... That was it.

And where's your house in Italy? It's in a little village called Montesi, near Siena. How lovely. Oh, it's marvellous. Do you like Amsterdam? I do, but it's become a bit busy. You know, I want quiet. Does she like Clapham?

No. Oh. She doesn't want to live in London. She'll have to meet she like Clapham? No. She doesn't want to live in London. She has to meet in Italy to make it work. Where did you meet? We met in London. A mutual friend introduced us. And I knew the minute I saw her that I wanted her.

But she didn't. She didn't think I was gay for a start. And she thought I was noisy, which I am. So how did you win her over? I asked her to lunch. And where did you go for lunch? Oh, my place. But who was doing the cooking?

Well, I suppose, I mean, this is 54 years ago. I made some mashed potato, I think. You served her mashed potato? And other, I mean, probably something else. A chop, perhaps. And we talked and it worked. Is she a good

cook? She's a terrific cook. What's your favourite dish that she makes you? Well she makes Indonesian food. Oh yum. And it really is delicious. Some more juice darling if you want it. Mum this is great. Is it? Oh wonderful. You've juice, darling, if you want it. Mum, this is great. Is it?

Oh, wonderful. You've absolutely killed it tonight. It's brilliant. There's loads more if you want some more. I would like to ask you some of our staple questions. Hmm, please do. Your last supper, which... Before you go on a desert island, say.

Before you've got to go to Amsterdam for six months, what would it be? Start a main drink of choice and put... Probably I'd have a gin and tonic to start with. And then I'm trying to think what I really enjoy. Well, I really enjoy chopped liver. I'm making that as well. Do you want me to...

Look at our little face. We've got to give her the chopped liver too Darling, I could have done the whole shebang. Well, don't say that now. But I thought this was more delicious, really. It is delicious. But you'll get the chopped liver tomorrow, so it's fine. You'll get the chopped liver. But anyway, chopped liver.

And I like rough chopped liver, not smooth patty. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Because this is the way you can still feel the onion. Yeah, I know. I'd say yours is the way you can still feel the onion. Yeah, I know. I'd say yours is... Yours is... You can taste the onion. ...very closer to smooth.

No, it isn't, because I put the chopped egg in it. And then we have the grated egg on top. Oh. Yeah. And then chicken soup. I like matzo balls. But so do I. I don't like loxian so much.

You know what Mummy used to do? What? She used to have almond. Ground almonds in the matzo balls. Yeah. She'd do that in the matzo balls. Some people put them in the matzo balls. And you liked it?

I did then, yeah. Have you ever tried that, mum? No, I haven't. Would you like some more, Nellie? Of course I would. Okay, fine. Okay, so we've got chopped liver. Chicken soup.

We've got a gin and tonic I really like fish What kind of fish? White fish Is there somewhere that you've had it that you've been like, oh, take me back I like grilled plate I like

Do you like fried fish with matzo meal? Of course We always eat it cold Do you like fried fish with matzo meal? Of course. So we always eat it cold. Mummy did that every Thursday. On a Thursday. Just go to fart again.

There we go. You are a wind-up. I have to say, I can't smell anything. They're quite odourless. Don't go around behind me. I think I'll open the door again. Oh, no, no, no. How did your parents feel when you said,

I want to be an actress? Mummy was pleased and Daddy was worried. Yeah. What was the other option that they thought that was realistic? I did try to become a barrister, but that's not me. Did you go to university? I went to university at Cambridge, but I ate the dinners. That's the thing I enjoyed

Did you get involved in footlights? I did but not particularly footlights because then women couldn't join Wow That's mad It is, of course it is Can I, we haven't finished your last supper

No So Maine is a fish yeah place place is fried place you're going to have in olive oil

do you do it no what do you do well fried place if I dip it in egg and matzo meal of course and then I fry it

probably in sunflower oil or rapeseed oil oh no I like olive oil but you can't fry very well in olive oil or rapeseed oil. Oh, no, I like olive oil. But you can't fry very well in olive oil because of the temperature. Well, Mummy did. Oh, did she? And I have my own olive oil.

Oh, really? I'll give you some. I'll give you chicken soup and you can give me olive oil. Do you squish it with your feet when you're out there in the summer? No, she goes to an olive oil factory. I don't know. You take your olives. That would be horrible.

Do you go in November then and knock all your olives down? Yeah, but I don't do it. I get people to do it. Yeah. And they take it to the front oil. And it's the most wonderful sight. You see this green liquid being squeezed out. And it's peppery.

It's got a kick to it. It's really delicious. Miriam, can I get you another tomato juice? Yes, please. Just pour some in there. And are you ready for a little bit of your favourite ice cream? I have made something else as well. What have you made? Oh yeah.

I've made some, well I went to a friend's yesterday and she stewed some blackberries with apple. Oh, that sounds nice. And she put it in the fridge overnight and it was really cold. Do you want some yoghurt on it? Not yet.

Try. Mmm, very nice. I think it's delicious. Well, it is nice, Mum. Isn't it? You don't need yoghurt on that. Are you going to be able to have enough space for coffee? Of course she has.

I believe in you. Of course I will. That is really nice, Mum. Yeah, it is, isn't it? It's some cleansing and fresh. Oh yeah, the palate cleanser before. Well, Jessie said not to make anything heavy. Well, I think that's right. We have to have brisket. And it's

at night, but it didn't feel heavy. It melted in the mouth. I do like it with you. Mum, that was a game. Okay, darling. A game brisket. You're amazing. Do you love each other?

I think, yeah. Yeah, a lot. We're quite codependent. It's wonderful. You're lucky to have your mum. I know. I adored my mother. Absolutely adored her.

And I still do. She made me who I am. Really? And gave me the chance to be who I am. She was quite something. Tell me about her. What do you feel like you've taken from your mum? I've taken courage from mummy.

She had a lot of courage. And I've taken charm, because I have charm and she had charm. She was not educated. She left school at 14. And she had an exaggerated respect for education, which a lot of Jewish people do have. My mum was the same. She left school at 14.

And was clever. And should have gone on to college or university. Yes, of course. So do you feel like she lived vicariously through you? Oh, definitely. Definitely she did. You know, being Oxbridge. Yeah.

I think when I got into Cambridge, I got into Oxford as well, but I didn't want to go to Oxford. Because you already lived there. I lived there. You didn't like it. Yeah. Did you go, you know, when I got into Cambridge, I got into Oxford as well, but I didn't want to go to Oxford. Because you already lived there. I lived there. You didn't like it. Yeah. Did you go to the Dragon School?

No. The Dragon School's a boys' prep school. It's not now. No, maybe not now, but it was... What's the Dragon School? Remember, I'm 82. Okay. Are you?

Fucking right. Yes. I'm 82. How does that feel? It feels old, is how it feels. Old. You took courage and charm from your mum. And a certain business acumen.

I have that too. And the love of performing. Did she love to perform? Yes, she did. She would have been an actress if, you know, in another world, because Jewish girls didn't go on the stage, not decent ones. I mean, Daddy was very worried about it.

He used to ask me what my income was. daddy was very worried about it he used to ask me what my income was and he said oh Miriam you know what is your income this year and I'd say whatever it was and and he because in the early days it really wasn't very much and he would say oh yes I see but then on, when I started to make money, he would ask, you know, what's your income this year? And I'd tell him, and he'd go, oh, really? That's impressive. He was pleased.

Where do you get your bagels from? I don't like bagels. Oh, Miriam. No, I don't like bagels. Oh, Miriam. No, I don't like bagels. Why? Because there's a hole. What's the point of having something with a hole in it? Well, I have to cut it up and put it somewhere.

So if I filled that hole for you, would you like a bagel? I like Gail's bread. I can't eat it because i'm scared my teeth will pull come out when i because the crusts are very very hard but i like that what your teeth falling out have you got good teeth then not particularly but well i've got veneers on the front because they were oh i see so i'm scared when i chew on a gale's... Okay. I like that dark sourdough. That's what I like. Yeah, because it's like Jewish black bread, really.

Wait a moment. That's the hat trick. I felt that in the floor. I'm just letting you know that. I like being able to do it. I can see. Why do you have so much wind, do you have so much wind do you think i don't know i must get it looked at no i don't think you need it looking at but i don't think i don't know

anyone who who has quite as much wind as you well maybe they're all just being quite british and keeping it in yeah i think that's true i don't think have you ever tried to like reverse it we'll kind of keep it up and it comes out like no i don't like that I don't think... Have you ever tried to, like, reverse it? No. Or kind of keep it up and it comes out like a bird? No, I don't like that. I don't like the idea of that. Well, you look so offended by that, Miriam. Jessie, you're going to sort out your ice cream.

I thought you were going to say sort out your arsehole. No, darling. I know that you like the coffee, but I'm just putting a little chaser of the tiramisu on the side so you can just have a little taste which is that that is that one that's the one that you it's not your fave will this keep me up at night I don't know I don't think so it doesn't taste of anything darling taste it what are you talking about? No, not the coffee, the tiramisu one.

There. This is fantastic ice cream. It's really good. Thank you for introducing this to me, because I've never heard of it. Well, I don't think they have any other shops. I think it's just this one. It's just one in Clapham. It's bloody good.

On the pavement. Very near the tube station. I feel like potentially this could be your last supper pudding. It definitely is. No, I don't mean this isn't your last supper. When you say the last supper ice cream. I'm sorry. It always worries me. No, this would be it.

This coffee ice cream. Plus plus Tarte Tatin. Oh, do you like Tarte Tatin? Oh, like Tarte Tatin oh yeah yeah can you do that oh yeah great

okay so what's on our menu next time Miriam's coming round we're doing chicken soup chopped liver we could do a bit of we could do a bit of

fried fish yeah and we'll finish with Tarte Tatin yeah okay you're on mate Miriam before

I I'm there I love you I'm just waiting for us Yeah. Okay. You're on, mate. Miriam, before I... I'm there. I love you. I'm just waiting for us to reach number four of the farts before you go. I feel like I believe in you. I believe you can do it. See, I never eat the beans, you see, because I think they might kick me. Yeah, I think they would.

But I would like another helping. But I don't want the tiramisu. No. No. Just for you. You can finish that. Oh, my God. You didn't even...

The tiramisu didn't even taste like tiramisu. Oh, stop gagging up on me. It's very sweet of you to have wasted... I'm trying to broaden your caffeinated horizons, Mary. I know, I know. But when you found the right thing, it's like when you find the right man. You know.

You know and you don't need to change. You just go on with it. And I go on with coffee ice cream. Yeah, I think that's right. Coffee ice cream is spectacularly good. And you don't often find it. No, it's not too little. Much too little.

I mean, I'd be embarrassed to serve that to someone I knew. Yeah, Jessie, why are you being so parsimonious? Yes.

I'm not, I'm not. No, I'm just trying to, I don't know. Don't be so fucking parsimonious. Be more generous. Keep the spoon. Sorry, is that? I'veius. Be more generous. Keep the spoon. I've got a spoon.

You can keep the spoon. Have you got any cream? Would you like a bit of cream on there? No, no, no. Jessie likes cream on ice cream. That's her comfort food. That's tautologies. Can I ask you to give us a scent or a taste

that can transport you back somewhere? a scent or a taste that can transport you back somewhere well i i suppose it would be chicken soup was that the smell of it yeah smell of chicken soup cooking makes me think of my parents and what day what day would that be done on friday um yes that would be done friday and um you know mummy would boil with the feet and all that and she would find the little eggs inside the pupuk and um yeah they would be chopped up with the liver actually i've got some from moans i'm going to put in the soup the giblets don't forget i won't I'm going to put in the giblets. Don't forget. I won't.

I'm going to take them out now. You've just reminded me. But this has been quite memorable. Oh, good. I really mean that. I mean, for us too, you're a legend and you're, you are, you are, and you're fabulous and you're... It's lovely to hear that you like me and you approve of me. But I truly am a little old lady trying to make a living,

trying to keep going. I don't think we see you like that, Maria. I know, but that's how I am. Is that how you feel? Yes. But you haven't always felt like a little old lady. No, because I haven't always... No, you only became one quite recently

yeah but what did you feel like before did you feel fucking fantastic fucking fantastic i mean i thought i was interesting and intelligent and gifted but do you feel quite happy that everyone's kind of joined the party because you've known I'm very, very surprised to have so much love and friendship directed towards me. And people are incredibly sweet. You know, people come up to me in the street and say, I just love you and all that kind of thing. The only time I don't like it is if I'm about to go to the loo. And if I want a wee-wee and someone stands in my way and says,

I just love you, I say, get out of my way! I cannot be... I need a wee. Yeah, I explain. I'm so sorry. So listen, anybody who accosts Miriam Margulies, the only time she's going to be rude to you is when she needs a piss. That is true right that is true that is true but no i i think when you get old you become obviously aware of your vulnerability

my i have a bad back i'm probably going to be in a wheelchair soon and it you know you you have to come to terms with what life throws at you do you have you been preparing for the idea of you being in a wheelchair not really preparing for it i'm just sort of accepted that it's probably going to happen have you had your operation because i know you were going to come i have the heart you've had the heart and i've got a cow's heart now. Well, not the whole heart. I've had an aortic valve replaced. By a cow? By a cow's aortic valve. Is that quite common?

I think it's rather refined, actually. Very clever. I don't know how common it is. I'd never heard of that operation. But it saves you from having open heart surgery, which would be infinitely more invasive. That's amazing. So how did they do it with keyhole?

There. They made two little holes in your groin, one in each groin, and then they shoved this thing through, and I don't know how they pull it up they sort of pull it up with strings into your heart and then when it comes to the point

when it's in your heart they pull a little string and it goes and lo and behold your artery or your aortic valve is shoved unceremoniously to the side and the cow's aortic valve there's a new aortic valve, is shoved unceremoniously to the side. And the cow's aortic valve... Make way, there's a new aortic valve.

There's moo, I'm here, you know. And it's rather amazing. Miriam Margulies, thank you so much for being on Table Manners. Thank you for enjoying our food, for giving such great conversation and just being unashamedly you, because we all love it. Well, I couldn't have had a more delightful evening and I and I cherish you both and thank you for your hospitality who the fuck made that racket Wow, I was blown away.

Oh, my goodness. I love the fact that Miriam has just... The earth moved, Jess. But she gave us wonderful conversation she gave us a healthy appetite I gave her two little ice cream why did you hold back I don't know because I it did look begrudging darling I don't know because we'd eaten like a frigging five... She's had four course, four helpings. Anyway, we love to see it. And I love the fact that she popped about six radishes in her handbag and the aioli.

So she's having that. I don't know when she's going to fit that in later. I think she had a hoot. She loved it. She certainly hooted, darling darling tooted and hooted and tooting time um I've got a number now mum good new best friends new best friend I loved it I loved the conversation I loved her warmth I loved her stories I loved the fact that she is exactly as we expected yeah yeah your food. Your food was amazing, Mum.

Good darling. Top notch. Was it, darling? Like, I mean, just like blue. Do you think you liked the apple and blackberry as much? I did like the apple and blackberry. I just, by that point, I wasn't fussed. Okay.

Because you just, I don't know. It's very good for your digestive. Thank you so much to Miriam Muggalese for coming to do our podcast. I think she enjoyed herself. I think she had a lovely time. Yeah. I think we're friends.

And do you know what must be really fabulous? What? Five minute drive home. I know. We're neighbours. I mean. Really.

It's the start of a beautiful relationship. Yeah. Friendship. That's what she said. Yeah. Thank you so much to everyone that listened. We hope that miriam's eating and devouring the food and enjoying it gave you is it jenny

jenny enough asmr pleasure because there was a lot of asmr in there for you i mean when she was chatting with the radishes i thought alice producer Alice, is going to have a mare with this edit. The sound effects of tonight are memorable in every aspect. Okay.

Thank you for listening. Thank you to Miriam and we'll see you next week. Thank you.