Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 19: Tommy Banks

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

We have a Michelin star chef, star of Great British Menu, restauranteur and farmer Tommy Banks joining us this week. Mum was very anxious about her menu, but rustled up some delicious (and vegan!?) green spinach pancakes served with fried eggs, roasted tomatoes & butter beans. We heard how Tommy names all his cows alphabetically (a Jessie & Lennie coming up?), he gives a great pitch for watching cricket, his hatred for baked beans, cooking at festivals for naked customers, enjoying brie omelettes for breakfast and after winning ‘Best Sunday Roast’ at his pub, he has a bone to pick with Jessie from last weeks ep! Thank you Tommy, can’t wait to visit your farm and restaurants in Yorkshire soon! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here, I'm sounding quite serious, with Lenny who is positively glowing. How was Safari Mum? The best thing I've ever done. Next to having my children. Oh yeah, thank you. Sorry, just magical. How were the leopards? The leopards came probably half a metre away from me, just strolled past stealthily looking for food. The lions at Ur.

I'm telling you, Jessie, if I'd gone when I was 15, I'd learned a lot about the male species and saved a lot of heartache. Why? Very selfish. Don't look out for food except for themselves, the lions. Were they the male ones? Yeah. But the females are the biggest hunters and the biggest killers. I mean, it is the circle of life, definitely.

Akula Matata. That means no worries. Well, whilst you've been there, I've been in Los Angeles in the rain and I've been back here. What did I eat in Los Angeles that was very, very amazing? I had Holbox. Holbox. Holbox. It's a Mexican restaurant. I think it may have a Michelin star now. It's lots of crudo. It's lots of raw fish right up your alley, Mum. And it's in a mercado. And it was really quite beautiful.

That was my most memorable meal, I think. Did you go to Greek? Absolutely, of course. The lemony potatoes are still delicious and the lamb chops. I ate a lot while I was there. Yeah. Lots of Swahili recipes. Oh, yeah.

while I was there. Yeah. Lots of Swahili recipes. Oh, yeah. They do a very nice stew, either with beef or with chicken that has peanuts in. Yum. Yeah, I think I might try

and make something like that. Something like that in the Gambia, didn't we? And it with lime. I think it's an African thing. It's so delicious. You are very excited about this, yes? Do you think I should give him

some of the... I thought you were going to say something else, Mum. No, some of the saffron I bought back with me. Yes. I might start selling it on the black market. I bought loads of saffron. You know you pay about four quid for about three... A strand, yeah.

Yeah, I've got that much. I'll let you have some. I'll allow you to introduce this guest, Mum. Right. Well, I've seen him on the Great British Menu, which I'm addicted to as you know love cooking shows he's always a real kind of breath of fresh air really talented chef himself always very helpful to the people who are competing who are other chefs I'm so I have

been very anxious about my food today yes because he's got this look when things aren't quite right with the competitors. It's not, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed look. Right. And I just don't want to see that face. You're not competing though, Mum. No, I'm not, but I just don't want to see the disappointed face. Well, we have had a little upset in the kitchen. Yeah.

I've had a problem with my mango. Never try and puree fresh mango. Buy it as a pulp in a tin. I've had a problem with my mango never try and puree fresh mango buy it as a pulp in a tin I should have done that yesterday but I didn't because I didn't think it was necessary so I can't do my mango frosting that's okay for my coconut cake what are you serving today so I've done some green pancakes and I think I I saw something very unlike you I mean I know it's been pancake day when we're recording this it's a yeah the thing was I saw him cook um on his Instagram something that must have been a matcha sponge which was very green I thought it looked interesting and I came across a recipe for green pancakes so hon you've done it because you saw him do a green sponge. Yeah, kind of.

Paying homage. Yeah, I was paying homage. But I think I'm out of my comfort zone completely. Why? Because I've never made it before. I've used gram flour, which is interesting. Spinach. I wasn't sure the consistency was too thick.

So I added a bit more milk. And then it was a bit thin and then it took you know how your first pancake never works yeah well there was about four that didn't work right and it took me a long time to get it right so I think they're okay and also they were supposed to be 10 centimeters round I had to get my ruler out to try and make sure that they were going the right way anyway I'm not in my comfort zone. I've made that. I've done roasted tomatoes. I've baked some leeks that you're going to add some beans and thingies to.

There's a garlicky yogurt dip that he will never be able to speak to anyone today. It's very garlicky. And it has a fried egg on top. Gorgeous. So I've got to do that. He is coming for brunch so that's why we're doing this. Very excited. Tommy Banks coming up on table manners. Tommy Banks is in

my house. Your house. Yeah. I'm going to eat your food, Mum. Oh, Christ. I'm very excited. Don't be excited. She's not. She's terrified.

Because I've been very anxious because I love Great British Menu and you have got that face. I was saying to Jessie, it's... I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. That's a very different thing.

But I think the other thing about Great British Menu is you're not supposed to give it away. know what i think do you know this series i think the judges have been quite mean meaner than normal and i think not you know not the chefs because i think the chefs are really encouraging the vet mom you were just trying to kick one of them judges out so you can get a seat at the table maybe it won't but what a what a job by the way yeah yeah because competing on it is really tough like it's so hard stressful it's exhausting i mean incredible but like when you get to be a judge you just rock up and eat food

and tell people what you think about it and you do become a little bit like no that's rubbish and you sort of start to forget how hard it is. I mean, I watched them yesterday and the guy who won yesterday, AJ. Oh yeah. Scotland. Yeah. And they kind of, where does he cook?

And he's Indian and his food was amazing. And it was so hard. And the, the, the judge was like, Ooh, don't like that. Tom carriage.

I've never heard him be quite so harsh. And they were absolutely exhausted both of the guys yeah I mean you had the girl didn't you uh Louisa yeah she was brilliant she was brilliant but she didn't go through no but when she got through to the judges on the Friday um and yeah she was awesome yeah but she the other guy went through Adam went through yeah he was great yeah really good really talented oh it is but I think I think with the judges

it's as the days go on like because if you've eaten all day sometimes by the time you're having your eighth dish you're like yeah no I'm not that fussed about that

and the poor chef's put so much effort so sad the worst is like finals week when they've got to eat like eight main courses I know if you're cooking the eighth

you're like they don't want to eat this so you definitely there's definitely a sweet spot around lunch time if you can cook at that time then they're gonna they're gonna enjoy it that's true how has your week been you have come on your own by no entourage for the tommy banks no well everybody wanted to come uh like i've been inundated from everyone in our team and my wife wanted to come but i've been down so it was Valentine's this week wasn't it so

you were away for Valentine's no I actually had to cook Valentine's night in our pub and then get the first train down yesterday and I was working yesterday I've stayed over and so yeah so I'm on my own what did you buy her for Valentine's Day oh so

are you familiar with York or Yorkshire yeah yeah yeah Betty's I went to Betty's yeah no this is it so that's the end of the event Betty's. I went to Betty's, yeah. No, this is it. So that's the end of it.

So I went to Betty's. They do these lovely little heart-shaped cookie, shortbread, things with a jam in the middle. So I got one for my wife and one for my little daughter. Low-key, I mean, we're married now, so it's not... You don't have to make an effort. Just extravagant gifts, just thoughtful ones. So I tried to go to your...

Well, one of your restaurants. I tried to go when we were on our way up to Edinburgh when we were doing the festival. This was years ago because I definitely didn't have as many children. And we stayed in an area called Malden? Malton? Malton, yeah, yeah, yeah. Malton's so lovely. Yeah, yeah.

Quite near you. Yeah, quite near, yeah. There's a really cool food festival there as well yeah there was so many great bits of food that like anyway I am very sad to say

I've never eaten at your establishment I think we better come Jess we will because also the train actually it's not that long to get there is it

not at all no it's about from London an hour and fifty into York yeah so it's quite minor it's really commutable that's the thing often when I turn up here and I do something and people are like oh it must have took you hours I'm like an hour and 50 into York yeah so it's minor it's really commutable that's the thing

often when I turn up here and I do something and people are like oh it must have took you hours I'm like an hour and 50 they're like oh it took me that long from Essex

you know it's like the same thing so we are yeah it is well connected and I mean I'm biased but it's a beautiful beautiful part of the world

is that where you were born? yeah no I've always lived in North Yorkshire so that I mean that is where I live because I'm a farmer first before for a chef yeah so we have a that is where I live because I'm a farmer first before a chef.

Yeah, so we have a farm and that sort of, I'm really passionate about that. So you're brought up on a farm? Yeah, yeah. Wow. What did you have on your farm? What sort of things? So it was mixed sort of arable and livestock then. So like I, I mean, I don't think kids really grew up like this anymore,

but I grew up and like we'd milk the cow before going to school and stuff. Like it was proper old fashioned. It though this was like the 90s when I look at it feels like must have been in black and white um it was so long it feels so long ago but now actually it's quite nice because uh like my niece and nephew live on the farm now and they kind of have the same thing really and they're milking the cows yeah well carve carving season's just started so we've had our first two calves in the last two days. And I've been away. So I've been getting the pictures through.

And the kids named them. So they're alphabetical. So A, I think it was Annie and Bertie so far. Do you always do it alphabetically? Yeah. Yeah. Like hurricanes. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, are they alphabetical? Yeah. Storms are, aren't they? I never knew that. Has your two-year-old been milking any of the cattle? Will she be doing that soon? She's so grabby. I wouldn't trust her.

Poor cow. She'd probably bite them. No, I think she will do that growing up. I think it's really cool to sort of have that understanding and that interaction. But no, the poor cattle, I wouldn't let her near them. I'd be worried about their safety rather than hers. But when you milk now, you're not doing it manually. understanding and that interaction but no the poor cattle i wouldn't let her near them i wouldn't be worried i'd be worried about their safety rather than hers but when you milk now you're not doing

it manually you put machinery on them so there is yeah you can use so we have two cows that we milk so it's not like a big dairy and my dad tends to milk them on a morning and he does have a machine but it very rarely works so he tends to i don't know why he just uh you know he fixes everything not very well um so yeah he does milk them by hand yeah so talking about family um who was eating around the dinner table when you were younger and how many brothers yeah so i've got one brother so there's sort of four of us he's now got the farm yeah and uh and my grandma and granddad lived next door on the farm as well so it it was quite a nice sort of family affair. It's like the arches. Yeah, it really is.

And mum, I mean, I think everyone's mum cooked from Delia Smith cookbooks. But that's what we had. All the Delia classics was what we had. She's a great cook. Oh, I love Delia. And you're always certain it will work. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's the sort of things that we grew up eating. So what was a memorable dish from your childhood well Sunday lunches were the one but I have a bone to pick with you because I listened

to your last episode which was your Galentine's and you what did you say you cannot get a good Sunday lunch in a pub I haven't been to your place

I know you're quite famous for your roast I think I but I actually agree with you you are right I love that you're saying and also you're saying you can't get it in a pub you're quite famous for your roast. I think, yeah. But I actually agree with you. You are right. I love that you're saying, and also you're saying you can't get it in a pub.

You're like Michelin star. Well, our, so we have Michelin star restaurant. Our pub got voted the best Sunday lunch in the country. And so you've got to come and have that. Well, fine. That's fine. Maybe you'll redeem pubs. But I actually think you're right.

I think the thing is, it's something that's quite precious to people. You make it at home and you know how you want it like I like soggy Yorkshire puddings me too

straight out the oven don't you whereas obviously in a restaurant they make them puffy and dry they take up too much space

and they're too big you need so much more gravy well what we do is we make giant ones but then we fill

them with like so if you have beef you have like pulled ox tail in it or if you have pork

you have pig's so you make a toad in the hole with it and i think that then becomes good so was your mum doing anything sexy in the 90s with your roast no god no and i was the fussiest eater ever it really was yeah i didn't hope for all people listening with fussy children yeah i was so fussy like uh i I used to have cheese sandwiches every day. I was terrible. So did you have the same thing? You and Nigella. Nigella was fussy too.

Was she really? Yeah. You wouldn't imagine that because she's just so... Well, her mum was very strict as well and they had to finish everything on their plate. Yeah. Oh, see,

I had that problem too, but we had cats and a dog. So that's where the tactics come in. Like, I mean, it's quite good now having a two-year-old and she throws all the food on the floor and, well, the dog just eats it. Yeah. so that's where the tactics come in like I mean it's quite good now having a two-year-old and she throws all the food on the floor and well the dog just eats it so it's great I think animals are your friend when you're a child and you have to eat eat everything so when did things change for you was it when for for your like your taste buds well they didn't really I was

a really fussy eater as a teenager. I had no interest in food whatsoever. I didn't want to be a chef. You wanted to be a cricketer. Yeah. So I left school after GCSEs with this dream. I was just going to be a cricketer. It's fine. You were very good.

I was good. I don't know whether I would have made it or not. So who were you playing for? Were you playing for the county? Yeah. Yeah, like representative level cricket. And that was... Well, if I didn't make it, I would be a coach or a physio or i don't know something in sport in the cricket world yeah that's i think i think like a lot of young men that was pretty

narrow-minded on sort of sports so you were a terrible eater well you were eating your cheese sandwiches going off to cricket all the time and then what happened uh so i got a disease called ulcerative colitis when I was 18 so I'm sure lots of people know what that is but it's basically a disease of your bowel and that was quite aggressive for me so I had 18 months where I had a lot of surgery

I had a colostomy bag and I was 18 years old at this point so yeah it was pretty rubbish times but that put a stop to all sport and cricket and so then i'm this guy with no left school with no qualifications and no way of you know uh nothing to do really um and mum and dad had used to run a bed and breakfast at the farmhouse and they kind of thought well maybe we'll have a go running the local pub so

that was so they'd taken on the local pub and I just sort of I was watching tv and seeing tv chefs and stuff and I thought well I've got to throw myself into something I was quite an angry young man at the time because you know you would be you know frustrated I wanted to and it was it was a muse I could sort of get into um so I just sort of fell into cooking and worked harder who were the tv chefs that you were looking at was it Jamie uh well Delia would have been on wouldn't you Gordon would have been really big at that point you were angry weren't you yeah no I don't think I wasn't angry like Gordon was okay I was more like frustrated with the world that had been dealt cards I wasn't particularly pleased with whereas no he's more like idiot, isn't he? I wasn't like that.

But yeah, no, so I think that was sort of a real rise of chefs, so I just sort of threw myself into the kitchen. So you started watching these chefs, and when did you start tasting differently? I guess having bowel surgery as well, you probably were having to be really strict with your diet. Yeah, I probably should have been. I think that's like everyone who has strict with the diet you sort of know what you're supposed to do and you do the other thing isn't it better if you eat food you have to be careful what you eat yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't say blander food maybe just things that are difficult to digest really okay and was once you got rid of the, is it, I'm so sorry because I don't really, is it still, is it flare up?

Is it kind of like a... So a lot of people live with the disease and they manage it and they have flare ups and things like that. Mine was too acute. So I had actually had my whole bowel removed. So I had like three bouts of surgery. So yeah, so that, but that got rid of it. Right, okay. So it was all gone, uh, literally.

And, uh, yeah. And then I, yeah, started on my cooking career. Um, but I think to answer the question, I think it takes a long time. Like you, I think, you know, people like, so dishes that you make all the time, you become very confident with them because you know exactly what they should taste like. And I think, uh, from a chef's point of view, I think you just have to gain that experience through years did you have training no no no no formal did you work with any famous chefs no so it was just you you were involved in the pub yeah so we we obviously employed like head chefs at the pub and I would like work under them and then um when I was 23 the sort of head chef

left and I just took over. But it was winging it. Like, I was making it up as I went along. Most of it came out of cookbooks. But at 23, when you became head chef, did you decide to change up the menu at that point? Did you feel like you knew what you were doing? And when did you basically get your flair that felt your identity as Tommy Vance well I think it takes a long you still work your identity changes all the time isn't it but I think no at that point it definitely was very generic I want to change every dish on

the menu because I want it to be mine obviously ego but um I didn't I never left home I had no experience hadn't gone uncooked anywhere so I largely did it from cookbooks, really. Big shout out to Phil Howard. He had a really good cookbook at the time. I nicked some of his recipes. But I think the big thing happened sort of later, about a few months later, won a Michelin star. And then suddenly I was the youngest chef with a Michelin star.

How old were you? 24. 24? Yeah. So do you kind of feel like Phil won that Michelin star? I'm joking. I'm joking. I mean, I hope he doesn't listen because he might steal right now.

But that was where it was difficult because I obviously, obviously growing up in the middle of nowhere as well, like I wasn't used to media or anything. And suddenly your youngest Michelin star chef. So I was sitting down with journalists and they were like, you must be some sort of genius. And I was thinking like, no, no i literally no massive imposter syndrome so i was like oh god i really need to get this thing now like this identity this purpose so um i was like well the only thing i know about is farming and growing up in the countryside so i was like i'm just gonna cook with things that we've farmed things that we've grown, things that I can forage and I put these very strict

things in place and that I think promotes a lot of creativity because suddenly you have to make a dish out of what you've got and that sort of became my style and then I think we did have very interesting food after that Come on, you got a Michelin star

there's a reason you got it It wasn't because you're being, yeah. It wasn't because of reading from a cookbook. No. So you must have been adapting recipes all the time. Yeah, I think just also just a ruthless sort of hard work. So at that period, because I was wanting to sort of achieve, I worked every day of the week and I cooked every single dish that left.

So I kind of, there was no management. I just literally did it all. And that's how I knew it was going to be good and I guess that's why we went to mission start because I was single-handedly making everything perfect talent as well and also understanding food and I mean you could follow a recipe and it might not work or it might work brilliantly just because you know how to do it so you can't i mean 24 is really i just can't i can understand the pressure but also you obviously had such drive from a young age whether that was thinking wanting to be a cricketer and of course that got derailed so unfairly and then you're like i mean you're tenacious like you've got like

this but were you eating at restaurants yeah i did different i did start going out and eating trying things i remember i remember the first time i went to gordon ramsay's restaurant so the first like the three mission star royal hospital road in chelsea was the first like really posh place i've ever been i remember wearing like my school leaver's suit and it didn't really fit because i was like growing up i remember feeling like so uncomfortable um why did you choose there uh because it was like the best restaurant in the country at the time um and i i really vividly remember that because i just remember being so nervous and scared and you look back now you think i'm going why would you feel nervous and scared and you look back now and you think, I'm going, why would you feel nervous and scared about going out for dinner?

But that's how I did seek a lot of inspiration from places like that, for sure. But I always make a real point when I see real young, because you often get real young chefs who come and eat in the restaurant, they do look a bit nervous and scared. I always try and make a point of going over and

putting them at ease and talking to them because you should never go out for dinner and feel nervous. But I do feel like food and dining has changed. Like it used to be when you go to Michelin, it was fine dining. And that meant, you know, it was quite stuffy. Yeah, totally. And in a sense, more elitist than maybe it is now. Food that is winning Michelin stars.

So I think, you know, you look at something like Thomas Parry with Mountain. That just got Michelin, I think. Yeah. And that is like very much like a bustling, vibey restaurant. Where do you like to eat in Yorkshireshire where would you go if you're not eating at your spot where would be the first place that you'd go and what would be the dish that you would have so there's a really cool pizza restaurant called cresci which is run by two italian guys and it's proper neapolitan pizza it's like really good um but you know like i just

love the way italians do hospitality it's like really family. But you know, I just love the way Italians do hospitality. It's like really family friendly. So like you can take the kids in. It feels really great. And there's just like, you know, they bring you a little limoncello at the end. You don't want it, but it's kind of nice.

It's nice that they've given you it, right? It feels hospitable. Yeah. We had a guest on recently, a guy called Jacob Collier, who has limoncello on his rider. I was like, you are the only bugger having that

because no one likes that shit. No one likes it. It's like medicine. Also, that's not something anyone has in their cupboard anywhere, is it? So you know that everywhere he goes, there's some poor runner going out and having to buy it. Italian deli. Yeah, right, exactly.

Weird rider. So what's your pizza order there? I always have something with a little bit of meat on it, something spicy, but whatever they've got on the specials. And then, well, shout out to anybody who's in York, but they never have tiramisu on the menu. But if you ask the waitress for tiramisu,

she'll wink at you and she'll go in the back and bring it out. Oh my God, an off-menu thing. Yeah, we love that. How cool is that? That's what restaurants should be like. Is that because it's you? Well, they have,

they must make them real quick if they are making them. I feel like they have them, but it's just like an if you know, you know. And I love that about restaurants. That's like animal fries in an Outburger in California.

Yeah, animal fries. Are they? Well, it used to be a thing, I think, please tell me. It used to be a thing

that wasn't on the menu, but everyone would be like, oh, get the animal fries. And it was just like. It to be a thing that wasn't on the menu but everyone would be like oh I'll get the animal fries and it was just like it's like a boss food chain I know but you're just

it's really good though it's tasty yeah I thought it was awful oh alright but it just tastes like you know the way

it tastes like it's been chewed before that's okay it's served oh I kind of know what you mean yeah so is your daughter

your two year old daughter is she a good eater? Rubbish. She was really good. And now she's gone rubbish. Because often, like, if I'm, like, cooking on TV, I'll bring the ingredients home and just do a little run-through at home sometimes because it's sort of too easy at work.

And you want to cook on something which isn't very good, like my stove at home. And then you sort of feel equipped to do it on TV. And sometimes I just want to cook on something which isn't very good like my stove at home and then you sort of feel equipped to do it on tv and sometimes i just want to tweak things or whatever and i cook things and my daughter would just eat them like i remember roasting a whole mallard and at home and it was like eight o'clock in the morning i was like to my wife charlotte i was like we got some mallard she was like no it's eight o'clock in the morning and i was like i'm just doing it so i can just i'm happy i've done that now before I do it on camera. And I just walk over my large breasts and she'd just eat it.

And I was like, wow, my daughter's the daughter of a chef. Now, no, she just eats. Yeah, she won't eat anything really. What about your nine-year-old? Really fussy as well, yeah. Oh, well, there's still hope though, isn't there? Yeah. Yeah.

You just have to wait, you know, 20 years. Alex was really fussy. I think it's all right though. I think you just have to wait you know 20 years Alex was really fussy I think it's alright though I think like kids are fussy yeah but your wife I want to know how you fitted romance in to this I was going to actually just ask what your wife's best dish was

but Ron wants to know a little bit more I want to know how you met him because you're busy working you haven't been well so you've been at home and then you start to cook in the pub. As you say you were doing every dish you were seven days a week how did you give yourself time for romance? So I mean I think from that I met Charlotte a few years later than that and I think if I did start by that stage I had a team and I was doing my own rota. So then, you know, suddenly you start rotoring yourself off on Saturday evenings and things like that.

Where did you see her first? So where did we get, well, our first date, I actually made a little picnic and we went for a walk. But neither was, neither was, neither was ate it. You know when, like, you're really nervous. I obviously, I remember. Too busy kissing? Not on the first date.

It wasn't that successful. You overcompensate, don't you? I think I made a huge spread and then we probably ate next to nothing. What was in the spread? Do you remember? I like a picnic sort of thing where it's like sausage rolls

and sandwiches. I think some of it was homemade and some of it was from a deli. Not from M&S, but from like think some of it was homemade M&S not from M&S but from like a deli because you I love M&S but you can tell

that it's M&S whereas I think you can you know pull it off a bit more if it's from a deli is Charlotte a good is it Charlotte yeah yeah

is Charlotte she's a fan of the podcast mum and we're very sad that you're not here Charlotte why didn't you bring her oh because

because she wasn't here yeah is she a good cook? She's a brilliant cook. She's a very good baker. Like, much better than I am at that sort of thing. It's a different skill, isn't it, almost? Yeah.

And also, I think cooking at home is a different skill. Like, I make a mess at home. I get frustrated. Whereas she just sort of glides around and makes beautiful cakes and stuff. But no, she rang me up yesterday. She like, have you listened to the latest podcast? I was like, no. And she was like, you need to listen because Jessie says you can't get a good Sunday roast anywhere. That's fine.

Thank you, Charlotte, because I will be coming to eat and you will be joining me. Do you want me to do the... Yeah, you can do the leeks. No, should I do the fried eggs? No, I'll do the leeks. Oh, we're having fried eggs. Well, yeah. Do you want to know what we're having? Yes. Okay, she's been very

stressed. I've been very stressed because I wanted to not impress you, but not disappoint you. I'm just happy to be fed. I know. But, so I've made these green pancakes. Tell me why. Because I was looking at all

your Instagram posts, and I did want to know that piece of beef that you were cooking on the bone on a barbecue it looked so fascinating what was oh it looked fabulous so I noticed that you'd served a green kind of matcha sponge that was a little round thing that was a dessert and you were putting or someone was putting it was on your Instagram definitely oh I'm trying to think what that was

so I've done anyway I've done these green pancakes that are made with spinach and herbs and gram flour it's like a high protein

thing anyway oh healthy very healthy gluten free I think too yeah yeah because it's chippy

gram flour so it's got cottage cheese and all different things my god yeah you can go to the gym after this but it was it was stressful

because I'd not it looked too thick so I added some more milk and then possibly shouldn't have added the milk so you know like the first pancake

is never very good yeah the first three words and then and also they said 10 10 centimeters diameter so i got my ruler out to make sure i was do you think tommy cares if they're i care okay so anyway i've made these green pancakes and you serve them with um a fried egg you're sounding a bit kathy bates and misery at this point he's literally running for the door And garlicky yoghurt

And then we've done Some roasted tomatoes And I've done something that actually doesn't suit it I've just done some beans And leek with bay leaves And then you can have it on toast And with some creme fraiche Sounds great

It's a lot You're going to be overwhelmed I've just been... I've just been to a... There's no meat, though. No meat. Do you mind? I don't mind.

No, but you've got eggs. Oh, he hesitated. Well, I mean, I'm a Yorkshire farmer, so, like, it is meat. But, I mean, eggs are good. But it's brunch, you see. I didn't want to give it... Right. Do you cook your eggs in butter or would you cook them in oil?

Butter. I would as well. So, i was just going to do that but i didn't i don't want to end anyone so i'll get on crack on with the egg would you like me to just do it and then you and tommy can talk well you can't no i don't trust you i'm very good at eggs mom i'm actually really good at eggs thank you you need to sort your leeks out. I will. You carry on. Would you like two eggs? I'd love two eggs.

Yes, definitely. There's more eggs in the fridge, Jess. Do I need to warm up the pancakes? They're warm, I think, because they're in here. I'm going to eat the yogurt. It's in the fridge. You see, this is why it's easier to do it myself. Just let me do it.

No, it's easier, I'm telling you. I love, this is actually everybody's family dynamic, though. Yeah. I said, no, you don't need that. Unless you want to put it on, I was going to leave it. Would you like him to assemble his own pancake? No. So I obviously grew up in a bed and breakfast,

so every morning going ready for school, Mum and Dad were doing breakfast service. Yeah. They only had like six people in. Yeah uh but this is what it was like my dad would do fried eggs and toast and my mum would do everything else and they would try and coordinate it and they would bicker and fight you just sort of get your get your school bag on and just Oh, they look great. Well done. No, darling, we don't want to serve it up like that.

That's like very Instagram, that, isn't it? Putting the pan down. It's not very Instagram. It's very what Jessie does. So we ask everyone, what's your last supper? Yeah. And you've heard what Jessie's would be. Yeah, I also heard I quite liked yours more, actually.

Thank you. Chicken liver parfait or duck liver parfait.'s would be. Yeah, I also heard I quite liked yours more, actually. Thank you. Chicken liver parfait or duck liver parfait. Oh, I love that. Yeah? I mean, I love something like that as a starter. Do you like chutney with it? Do you know... Someone said to me they don't like chutney with chicken liver parfait.

Yeah, I'm not that fussed about it. Like, it's the same with cheese. Like, I just want to eat the cheese. Do you know what I mean? Or like all the bits yeah I'd be really happy just like

eat start yes chef sorry can we get some butter there is nice butter there I was going to say steak tartare but I'm going to have

a Sunday roast what do you have steak tartare I'm going to have a Sunday roast though for my main course I can't have beef and then beef

oh I can have roast I can have roast pork rather than roast beef for the main course. I can't have beef and then beef. Oh, I can have roast pork rather than roast beef. Yeah, yeah. Because I love crackling. Are you a good crackling maker? I am. I'd like to think I am a good crackling maker, yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, let's go. So you're going to have a roast? Steak tartare. I'm going to have a roast pork with all the trimmings, my Yorkshire puddings. What is it like? It's delicious. The pancake's lovely. Do you like them?

yeah the fried eggs are perfect thank you so if I put in probably a trifle like it's just a great dessert it's got everything hasn't it custard

cream sponge jelly booze fruit do you put jelly in yours? I don't really not?

trifles have jelly in them right? no but I don't like I don't like the jelly so I just put raspberries in but really soak the sponge Trifles have jelly in them, right? No, but I don't like the jelly. So I just put raspberries in. But really soaked the sponge with the raspberries. So that's how I like it.

Very nice. Did you get the chilli? I love that she's allowed to use your last supper. Okay, fine. Which jelly, which flavour? Raspberry, strawberry Strawberry trifle Oh, strawberry and raspberry together would be nice Yeah

And it's the custard and the cream It's the custard and cream, it's exceptional Last Christmas my wife actually made a Nigella recipe and it was rhubarb trifle but it had vermouth in it It had red vermouth in it Oh, is it good? Oh, so nice had red vermouth in it. Oh, yeah. Was it good?

Oh, so nice, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you want a little bit of that on there? I'm good. This is delicious. Thank you. What's your, you know, you've been in London. What's your first stop for food in London? Oh, that's such a good question. I'm always in London for work, not for, not usually

for pleasure, but me and my brother, because we run a restaurant at Lord's Cricket Ground. So when do you do that? When all the Test matches are on. How fabulous. Honestly, it's the dream. But do you go and be able to watch as well? Oh, yeah.

Head chef, isn't it? Not even head chef. Are you just kind of... Well, the first year I ran around a lot and it was really busy, but I've managed to get to a point where I'm better operating it so I can spend a lot more time watching.

We have... I don't know if he's a friend but he's the person that told me about you years ago um Felix White oh Felix yeah yeah um you've known him for a long time right well so Felix um obviously Maccabees but oh were you a fan of the Maccabees yeah oh okay but I'm a massive cricket fan as well and And that's where he's like tragically in love with cricket in the same way that I am. So I sort of met him through Tailenders, his podcast, which is super popular. And yeah, he's got an amazing book, actually. It's so good. And it's just...

It's always summer. Always summer somewhere. It's always summer somewhere. somewhere it's always summer somewhere and it's sort of his sort of life but through cricket and that's how I sort of grew up

I can remember tragic things in my life or great things in my life by what was happening in the cricket like I'll always know that Ben Duckett got 100

on the day that I was recording Table Manners with you guys because that's what's happened this morning he got 100 yeah yeah so and that's the sort of thing morning. And it got 100. Yeah, yeah. So, and that's the sort of thing.

I don't really know anybody else who's that tragically in love with cricket, and then obviously met Felix, and he really is. He is mad about it. Cricket, cricket is anonymous, I don't know. It's like, it's an addiction, isn't it? Who's your favourite cricketer?

Oh my God, who's my favourite cricketer? See, that's sort of, as a kid, you obviously your favourite cricketer oh my god who's my favourite cricketer see that's sort of as a kid like you obviously have favourite cricketers whereas I kind of meet people nowadays

I mean I'm a Yorkshireman so I'm going to like I know Johnny quite well Johnny Bairstow is like one of my favourite players or Ben Stokes Jimmy Anderson

do you know Jimmy so he's obviously I know his name yes so he does the podcast with Felix and he's so Jimmy's isn't he someone that they've just brought back in so he does the podcast with Felix so Jimmy's

isn't he someone who's just brought back in so he's 42 and he's a fast bowler so fast bowling is like the hardest and you have to run and everything and he still performs at 42 he's like the best player were you a fast bowler

maybe there's time for you come again as a fast bowler he Yeah, but not... Maybe there's time for you. Or come again as a fast bowler. I don't know. He's, yeah, he's like, he's incredible shape. I think that's just like very inspiring that someone can do it. I think he's been here for like 20 years. Like, how do you have that stamina to want to do it for that long? I'm going to change because I find cricket so boring.

I'm so sorry. I do. I don't get it. I never get it. Felix, he talks about it with such passion. It goes on and on and on. Maybe I'd go because your food would be good. Five days of it. Yeah, fuck that.

It's near. It's near and you're cooking. Maybe I will try it. Oh, come. What do you drink when you're sitting there? Watching the cricket. Well, the amazing thing about Lords is you're allowed to bring a bottle of wine in with you. So you bring own yeah yeah so imagine that as a sport right that's good isn't all right i'm gonna give you i'm gonna give you a elevator pitch for cricket okay it's a game that is built around eating you stop for lunch okay now we're talking to me okay you start for afternoon

tea no stop yes what so it might be five days long but you start at a very leisurely 11 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Even when you're playing locally, darling, they have tea. No. Yes. Yeah. You have full cooked three course lunch at one o'clock. And then at four o'clock, you have a full afternoon tea with cake, sandwiches.

No wonder they're taking so bloody long. Yeah. Jesus, they could cut that whole game down to one day and say, but I do like the food thing. Yeah, exactly. So did the cricketers have the three course meal too? Yeah. Shut up. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, stop. And they have the afternoon tea? Yeah. Yeah. So, and it's like any other sport you'd be so elite sport, you know, you'd have to look after your diet.

Like they get, and then like they just, like you have afternoon tea with a cup of tea. Oh my God, I'm going to be a cricket fan. Like it's the only, it's the only game where tea is performance in Hampton. They're going to have to be able to watch their weight though, otherwise they can't run. Well, the thing with cricket is because it lasts so long. And say if you're a bowler, you don't bat. So you might get like a day where you just get to put your feet up in the middle of it. Oh, okay.

You are selling it to me. Yeah, you see them on the get to put your feet up in the middle of it or vice versa you've seen them on your school board with their feet up on that little thing playing Sudoku or something with the shades on just eating yeah I'm actually you've turned me I know we're cooking you eggs now,

but how do you like your eggs in the morning? I have eggs every morning. So does Nigella. Does she? It's on toast. So I usually have an omelette. Okay, what's in it? Cheese and ham.

Just really simple. I have that most mornings or... You don't ever do a little flourish like will it be a sexy cheese or will it be like a good cheddar herbs ideally two cheeses so you want a nice hard cheddar and then something gooey like a brie or a camembert in an omelette

oh my god I've never ever heard of gooey brie in an omelette and you have that in the, I've never ever heard of gooey brie in an omelette. And you'd have that in the morning? Yeah. I love that. Every morning, yeah. So,

but no colour on it, so your knob of butter goes in, you melt it, eggs go in, you fold them. Salted or non-salted? Yeah, salt, yeah.

Have you seen the bear when she made the omelette? I tried to watch the bear, but I found it too triggering. Yeah. And those, of course, say that, chefs say that, but I think you've got to move on made the omelette i tried to watch the bear but i found it too triggering yeah yeah and those of course say that chefs say that but yeah i think you've got to move on just to watch that omelette being made maybe it's on i copied the omelette is it so maybe that's probably what i'm how i make

my omelette i need to know do you do is it a french style one where you i mean in the morning do you really care enough to like almost like it's going to be scrambled eggs yeah creamy and then let it set yeah so okay yeah does it always look beautiful yeah but i've done it a thousand times so and i make my wife she doesn't like she thinks i'm almost too rich in the morning so she likes boiled eggs uh and i was getting really angry recently because i'd be making her boiled eggs and i would always mess them up so i'd make me a beautiful i'm at her boiled eggs and i'd always overcook them and i was like getting really angry recently because I'd be making her boiled eggs and I would always mess them up. So I'd make me a beautiful, I'm at her boiled eggs and I'd always overcook them. And I was like getting really annoyed of it. How many minutes do you cook your boiled eggs?

Well, this was the problem. Um, and then obviously she didn't eat them straight away. Then they'd overcook cause they'd sit there and I was just actually really annoyed of it. So I actually bought one of them little egg cookers. Have you seen them? They're like eight quid off Amazon. And it's like this little dome and you put in your eggs and some water, and you turn a dial,

and it literally cooks them perfectly every time. I'm getting one. So selfishly, I can then spend more time on making my omelette beautiful, and then I have perfect boiled eggs for my wife. What's your poor children eating? Oh, well, she doesn't eat, does she? So it's fine. Do you think you've got good table manners?

Oh, my God, now I'm thinking i mean i spilled some i spilled egg on myself um and i spilled a little bit on the table don't worry i think so i think there's a fair bit of etiquette when you run restaurants so i think so do you care about table manners no i don't i mean i feel like i'll try and teach my kids to have good table manners but I think it's about feeling comfortable and like I came into your house I'm having lunch brunch at your house today and like I feel really comfortable and happy and relaxed I want to ask you a little question do you think that sous chefs should be supportive or interfere um do you feel you're falling into a trap by the way that feels a really loaded question she's asking because she said that i had too many opinions

today and i was the sous chef today so don't worry my house my cooking and then you see how she took over yeah i think you need to sort of maybe just work work on the overall dynamic I think there's no chance of that do you think Lenny should not scream at me um well how do you treat your sous chef I wouldn't scream at my sous chef but I working in a family business and working with my brother because my brother's two years older than me and we fought like cat and dog and i actually don't think you can compare family to any other relationship and that's the beauty of it because it's okay to yes we just swear and tell me to fuck off yeah but but it's then kind of fine as well because it's it's family like me and my brother they might have like scrapes and fights we get into with one another and it was so

embarrassing in front of all the team. But it's kind of alright because it's your brother. You absolutely could not treat any other human being the way that you treat your siblings, so could you? So I think that's a different dynamic. Oh my God. Well, oh your God is... I'm not a baker.

So it might not be. Do you want another cup of tea with that? Just could you move his plate darling? I'd love another cup of tea. I can clear my own plate. No you can't. Oh my god. Right, I'm not a baker, but I just had so much coconut while I was away and I just thought.

So what's in the cake then? Coconut, desiccated coconut. Oh it feels a bit hard. Not quite interesting, that's why I don't like desiccated coconut. Oh for god's sake, don't have it. Shut up. I'm going to try it. I'm quite interested. That's why I don't like desiccated coconut. Oh, for God's sake, don't have it.

Shut up. I'm going to try this, though. I call it defecated coconut because I just think it's not the best, but I'm really interested to try it. Oh, my God. Jesus. Oh, my diploma.

The bomb you just dropped. The diplomacy's gone out the window. Oh, my God. This is passion fruit whipped cream with a bit of cream cheese in it. That looks awesome. You can hide the defecated coconut. That looks lovely. But like bounties are always the one that's left in the tin.

No, that was my first one out. Stop it. We could spend Christmas together. Yeah, we could. Yeah. Yeah. How much is it offending you? It's not.

I much prefer this to a bounty. I hate bounties. They are terrible. I thought eventually they would take them out because I thought no one actually ate them. But apparently you go and eat them. I would buy them specially. Oh. I think it's the texture thing there more than the flavour of coconut.

It's like you put your molars together. You can kind of like squash it, doesn't it? Like a little bit squashy. Apart from desiccated coconut, which has just been served to you, what would be the thing that stays in your store, in your larder, that you just kind of go, I should should be using this but I can't be fat oh I don't know

but I'll tell you what I really don't like is baked beans so I would never take them out of the cupboard have you noticed some over there as well because it can't fit them in

I gave you beans as well oh no you like my beans no it's baked beans I think people have this like nostalgia like oh I love beans and I'm like why though they're horrible what's your problem with them No, it's baked beans. I think people have this nostalgia thing, like, oh, I love beans.

And I'm like, why though? They're horrible. What's your problem with them? Well, they don't have a lot of flavour. They're kind of just sweet. And the texture's rubbish. And the sauce is kind of... I also think it might be like a trauma thing as well, because in kitchens, that is like, if the kitchen is just so busy and they don't have

time to make a proper staff meal yeah they just do like beans and maybe that's association as well but oh god i can't stand baked beans and it's always on a breakfast as well isn't it do you do a nice version of baked beans if you do a breakfast just don't do them. Because I was in the hotel this morning and I was watching people ladling the beans out of the big tureens. I was like, oh God. Which hotel were you in? I don't even know what it was called.

Wasn't it Westminster? What about my jacket potato? Oh, absolutely not. That's like the worst. See, that is what people say. They're like, ooh, jacket potato with beans and cheese. I said it last week, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, last supper. Oh, yeah. I'm really... Oh, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Last supper. Oh, yeah. I'm really... Oh, yeah. You're that person. Why would you... Why would it offend you so much, though? But it's good with the potato.

It's not. On toast. No. I just... I hate them. I really hate baked beans. Okay, so anyone who is potentially going to go on Great British Menu... Don't cook baked beans.

Don't do baked beans or coconut. Coconut, will you do coconut like... No, I like the flavour of coconut. It's the texture of desiccant. Okay, well, I think we've got away with this because it's kind of few and far between. Except it's got it on top. Yeah, but this is really tasty. It's nice.

But yeah, not beans, not beans. Tommy, before you go, and I book my reservation for your roast. Yeah. What is a nostalgic taste or smell from, well, it doesn't have to be from your childhood, but something that brings back and evokes lots of memories, happy or sad?

Mints. So my grandma and grandma used to have like, you know what mint's like if you have it in your garden it just goes crazy and grows they had this massive mint bush and they always used to put it in there because i think they had loads they put it in everything and then everything used to get cooked in a pressure cooker as well so when you come around it would just smell of mint and i think that that just brings back lots of happy memories that all the potatoes always cooked with mint i think that's delicious and lamb and things like that just brings back lots of happy memories. All the potatoes always cooked with mint. I think that's delicious. And lamb and things like that.

So yeah, that flavour of, that smell of mint I really like. I love that. Do you like karaoke? I mean, I'm literally tone deaf. I can't sing. Okay. But what would you sing if you could? Oh, like a ballad.

Oh, a ballad. Well, you have to really, don't you, for karaoke? I thought you might rap. Oh God, really? Or rock and well you have to really don't you for karaoke I think you might rap oh god really rock and roll yeah I don't know

I think well for karaoke you've got to go for something really super cheesy okay so tell me which song I would sing like

Tina Turner or something if we were doing karaoke okay Symphony of the Best or What's Love Got To Do With It yes oh yeah

or Cher I like Cher yeah turn that time uh yeah believe believe was i remember being a kid and i remember being on top of the pops and thinking that was really cool yeah believe would be cool do you ever get to go to festivals uh sometimes like cooking at festivals definitely yeah are you cooking at wilderness this year no but i have done before it's a really weird dynamic that because obviously everyone's off the face and you're sort of supposed and people paying a lot of money

for what you're cooking as well. I've done the chef's table there where it's like you have like 24 people sort of sat around and you're cooking and like the first you do like four sittings a day

so 12 o'clock is actually like really quite civilized and people are really into their food and the second lunch one is a bit more like boozy. The two in the evening like a couple of years ago I did it, I just had two people who were totally naked. But you're joking.

Which is like cool, but like you're like, supposed to be doing these full dish descriptions. You'd be like, yeah, so we poached the chicken for this long, and you're shaving a bit of truffle over it. And you're just like looking at them and you're like, you've got no clothes on. And they're just like, mm-hmm, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. Why did they have no clothes on? Because they're just like, mm-hmm, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. Why did they have no clothes on?

Because they're at a festival and having a nice time. I've never seen that, Jessie. I mean, look. Have you been somewhere where there's... I will be dressed when I'm at the chef's table. If you've been to wilderness work, do you know where the chef's table is? There's like a beautiful lake

and everyone goes swimming in the lake. So they came out of the lake and as they came out, I was like, oh, not wearing anything. And they just came out. How did they pay? They pockets oh i think you pay beforehand okay was that really the thing i just wondered yeah so so yeah it's just kind of like yeah you just you get into it by about the evening you just have to start drinking with everyone because it's like you can't take yourself to beat him join him yeah well you can't be like

shaving truffle over someone's dinner while they've got the boobs out you know it's just like doesn't work I would not but you wouldn't know where to look

would you really no you just a nice breast of chicken you really don't but you know it's like with things that you just like you can't

you just don't look you don't make eye contact you don't do anything oh god that is so awkward yeah it must have backfired on them though because they must have thought well this will be really cool we'll just be naked you just don't look decent. You don't make eye contact. Oh God, that is so awkward. Yeah. It must have backfired on them though because they must have thought, well, this will be really cool.

We'll just be naked. And when you're sat there for two hours having a dinner cooked for you, you probably feel very naked, I think. Tommy, thanks so much for being on the podcast. It's been such a pleasure to chat to you. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you for having me.

And the food was delicious. You're so sweet. So you're not angry? No, I don't think it was worth the stress that you went through. No, okay's been great. Thank you for having me. And the food was delicious. You're so sweet. So you're not angry? No, I don't think it was worth the stress that you went through. No, okay, I agree. I was going to give you fried eggs with a bit of sage, and Ravinda Bogle said, just give chefs simple stuff. But I'm sure he appreciates it.

It was delicious on clean plates. And I hope your garlic's of size by the time you get home. Yeah, apologies to Charlotte. Well, Tommy Banks is just lovely. Still swimming. I kept on thinking that I had a Peaky Blinder in the room with like his name. I kept on thinking Tommy Banks. I don't know.

He does sound like a rock star, doesn't he? Yeah. Probably. He'll probably end up putting an album out because he's so prolific. He's a very good advert for Yorkshire. In what sense, Mum? Because he inspires kind of like Yorkshire, the land, the pubs, the food, the cricket. The men. The men.

No, he's very, very handsome. We had a really lovely time talking to Tommy. He was so, I think he was quite surprised that the set up is as chaotic and real as Pop-Up. Made him feel at home. He does have the most garlic breath because I actually, I can taste it. It's lingering. Yeah. Well, he didn't look too disappointed or angry.

But you did give him something that he absolutely hates, which none of us would have known. But how, why don't people tell you so you don't make the biggest also tommy do you have good table manners yeah i think so um by the way i hate desiccated coconut as you place it down on the table he did the cream was very nice god and he hates bounties i mean i don't know people that hate that doesn't make me trust him slightly less. Yeah, me too. But hey, you know. Toby Banks, thank you so much.

You can go to any three of his restaurants. You can spot all the exciting stuff that has coming out at the end of the year. He's got produce that you can order online. He's got wine.

He's got pubs. He's got Michelins. He's got everything, to be fair. We'll speak to you next week. Thanks so much for listening.