Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 23: Beth Ditto

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

On the pod this week music icon and lead singer of Gossip, Beth Ditto, joins us for lunch. We served up a spatchcock chicken with orzo (a Substack recipe courtesy of @rocketandsquash) while Beth told us all the best stories. We reminisced about when I snuck backstage after her Glastonbury gig in 2007 and we sung Umbrella together, she told us about growing up in rural Arkansas and the meals her mother would cook, eating roadkill with her cousin, making the latest Gossip album in Hawaii with the legend Rick Rubin and how she loves a trip to the UK for a supermarket tub of flapjacks! Cannot WAIT to dance and go wild with you at Glasto again soon Beth, anarchy, anarchy, anarchy!! Gossip’s new album ‘Real Power’ is released this Friday, 22nd March. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and we are back in New Crossgate. Do you know what? Very relaxed. When I put ways in, do you know what this address comes up as? Work. So I've got home and work. So here is work and the other one, I'll show you, and the other one is home. You haven't done any work yet, have you, Lynne? Here I am.

I'm on cooking duty today and it's an absolute pleasure to be cooking. I'm actually trying. I'm getting into Substack, Mum. Oh, yeah. Have you joined? You have to subscribe. And I've subscribed to a few people. One of the people that I've subscribed to is somebody that I've been following for years

and I always do his egg recipes whenever we're doing a brekkie his name's Edward Smith Ed Smith uh rocket and squash on Instagram and he is also that on Substack anyway I saw that he did something really delicious the other day spatchcock chicken with like orzo and it just looked really delicious so I thought I'd try it's not very much the springtime lunch that I was hoping for because it is gray and cold outside however spatchcock it's really hard word to say say it spatchcock oh you're easy it's very easy for you to say very um anyway and spatchcock chicken um with also and usually is done with pancetta however our, our guest doesn't eat pork. So the spatchcock chicken is done with butter under the skin, parmesan, lemon zest, and it sits on wedges of lemon.

And it makes spatch... I'm going to stop saying. I'll just say SC chicken. It's much quicker to cook, and I really like it, and I feel like it's always more juicy. I spatchcocked it myself. You didn't? Actually, it's really easy.

I mean, it's easy if you don't get the wrong side of the bird. Have you got poultry shears? I don't know. I use the ones that I do my presents with. Oh. And it worked. So maybe I'm doing my presents with poultry shears. Anyway, it worked.

It's actually quite simple um as Ed suggested anyway that served with I think the guest is here served with orzo and spring veg so I've just put in tender stem and peas and I'm going to add some asparagus for extra crunch and onion and then you um we're doing it with this really nice tarragon yoghurt dressing that he suggests. Quite light, fab. Then we've got lapsang souchong plums that I've done before because you know I'm not a pud gal. And we'll have that with some creme fraiche and some ginger snaps.

I think Beth Ditto has just joined us because I can hear the southern hospitality at the front door. Barely talked about her. Beth Ditto is one of my idols. Idols. I love her. The photoitto is one of my idols. Idols. I love her. The photo. She's fantastic.

Gossip are back. They just headlined the Six Music Festival and she's been on everything. She's done Sunday brunch. She's coming here for some lunch. Can't wait to have an hour and a half with Beth Ditto from Gossip. They've got a new album out called Real Power. It's brilliant. She's the best.

Here she is. Come in. from Gossip. They've got a new album out called Real Power. It's brilliant. She's the best. Here she is. Come in. Beth Ditto, you've come in like a ball of beautiful... Like a parakeet. Like, no, no. Like a tree full of parakeets.

Because, for real, it was one of the loudest things I've ever heard. It's amazing. I'm thrilled to have you in South East London. Is that where we are? We are. Show the picture, Jessie. A South East London. Do I, no, do I show you the picture now?

Yeah, well, do whatever you want. There's no rules. Okay, so. I have a feeling we're going to be just fine in the barter department. Okay, so listen. I'm going to be really shy. You have been Jessie's biggest idol. We, my first Glastonbury. Oh, I love Jessie. I'm so excitedder department. Okay, so listen. I'm going to be really shy. You have been Jessie's biggest idol. My first Glastonbury.

I love Jessie. I'm so excited. My first Glastonbury. I can't believe she's going to tell you this story in front of you. So my first Glastonbury, I was a punter. I was going to watch my friends. I was watching you, the gossip, Headline. What's a punter?

I was like, I wasn't performing. I was like, with the people. Were you sneaking in? Yeah. I mean, no, I bought my ticket. I was like, that's cool. No was like with the people were you sneaking in yeah I mean no I bought my ticket but no but I snuck in

I love when people sneak in no but this is why I think you liked me so you the gossip were headlining the John Peel tent oh that's one of the most iconic moments

not iconic moments it's not because iconic babes I'm only saying that because John Peel is such an icon show the photo for gossip

okay so you remember this gig the gossip headline. You were in latex, I think, or maybe not, maybe, actually. I'll just let you know

you were in that. Oh, I do? Oh, look at that! Yeah, I know. Oh my God. So, we snuck backstage. You'd come off stage. It was pissing down.

We sung Umbrella together because it was pissing down and you... Oh my God! I remember that like it was fucking yesterday because i've never heard the song before do you remember me being like what the hell are you singing and you got you got into it best yeah because it was hilarious i thought because i thought you had made up this song i was like like i was like this is a jam yeah i'm not

kidding wait you can wait a minute hey listen honey I have an ear for We snuck backstage I'm so sorry It was brilliant, it was the best way to finish The rainiest Glastonbury, my first Glastonbury We snuck backstage, the security Are like no and you're going Anarchy, anarchy

And you're like Amarilla Ella, Ella And we're singing that and you're like there and it was just magic bless their hearts so basically I've loved you ever since well we loved you anyway we came to see you

played in Concord when I was at university we went to see you at Concord too in Brighton because you're younger than me so you have all of these it's just so crazy

so that is my story I'm a fan I've been a fan for a while and you're in my kitchen I'm cooking chicken thank you me too and I was like this. I've been a fan for a while. And you're in my kitchen. I'm cooking chicken. Thank you, me too. And I was like, this morning I was listening to you. And this new person that started working with us, she's 32.

To me, she's a baby. Now I look at a 32-year-old, I'm like, I'm having a baby. I'm like, don't you think you should think about your choices? You know what I mean? Because I look at them now, I'm like, listen, honey. Listen. As you're older, you're too young. Wait till you're 49.

Can I ask how old you are? 172. No, I'm 43. You're not. I am. Look at that skin. It's not real. Actually, this is a mask.

It's you. I pulled it off and I was a parakeet. I was like, gotcha. No, that moment, though, I had to tell you that when you said that like because you're talking about the first time we met in my memory the first time we had met was at houtan which is quite iconic as well oh so fun it was that iconic that was so fun now i was oh when you showed up i was like we are fun people like i was like we are the nice ones or whatever not really because i'm a horrible person so you were really young

when you were headlining John Peel's stage yeah I mean I think so you must have been because you must have been look at she keeping this on track mama

no I'm not you must have been 18, 19 I was no 21 I was going to say because that's probably because you're what

you're probably I'm 39 yeah you're 39 because the only reason I knew that is because I googled it I always thought you were really really young too I thought you were so young well I thought

personally I thought you parted with Stevie Nicks and the 70s I'm shocked I'm shocked no but for real I thought you were super duper young I have tried to tell people that story so many times and I did not realize that was you.

And in my memory, I was like, the first time I'd ever heard that that song was you. And who was your friend you were with? Sarah. So Sarah, I remember the two of you. I can, like when you show me that picture and then you tell me that story, I can remember your haircut. I remember like, because everybody. He looked like Tram Rats, to be honest. But no, that was the thing is that everybody did, but y'all didn't because you had an umbrella.

Because it was a thing. So that song was a really big deal. You know, it was huge. It was everywhere. Yeah, yeah. But I remember, that's, okay, it's such an important story and such a core memory for me because it was that day. Yeah. Okay, it's such an important story and such a core memory for me because it was that day.

Yeah. And I remember two girls walking up and being so hilarious and fun. But I remember y'all singing that, Umbrella, Ella, Ella. And I was like, these girls are singing a hit. We were really. I did not know it was Rihanna's song. I thought you made it up.

And I remember that. That would have been really good. Did she have a hit before that that could really be Rihanna yeah I'd say what was the one before that though did she hear

Mr DJ was that before that and yeah she had a lot she had a few I did not I'd never even heard that song

and I can't tell you it doesn't sound that crazy when I'm telling you but I'm always like I've tried to retell that story and be like

I thought two girls made it up in the rain like I was like and that you even remember that I'm like oh retell that story and be like there I thought two girls made it up in a and the rain like I was like and that you even remember that I'm like oh my god that was you also I remember it was massive and it was and then I thought you wrote umbrella I wish I wish you had then you kept both y'all kept trying to explain it to me too like you know like you know you remember I was like no but you were can i just say though beth you were so kind tell me more about me okay so well so were you we had a good time that was a really like we were little random kind of people that just jumped fans so was that but you

have just headlined the step 10 you'd killed it and then you have time for us to basically launch ourselves on you. And that's why you are rock and roll and also the most fabulous person in music. Finally someone said it. I didn't want to be the one that said it. But coming from another fabulous person in music, I mean, that's kind of just what has to be the standard now. I'm going to ask you some food questions. You can. I'm going to ask you some food questions. You can.

So big family, grew up in Arkansas. Who was around the dinner table and what was a very memorable dish from your childhood? It's funny I think about because my mother and, you know, we were really working class, grew up Southern Baptist. Like I always said that Arkansas diversity, like religious diversity was that a Southern Baptist and like a Church of christ was in the same room like that was diversity like people like we are barriers are being crossed we are breaking bread with the pentecostals like that you know it was like not really but it was like that there wasn't but it ruled everything around arkansas that's another story it connects somehow but like um so I grew up Southern Baptist. I didn't go to church all the time.

Well, Southern Baptist, did it have lots of music? It did. Because church always does. Okay. Did you like the music? Did you sing in the choirs?

Oh, yeah. Okay. But it's spreading the word as well, Baptist, isn't it? It will. Is it evangelical?

It can be. Yeah. It can be. It all can be, can't can it but when i think about family and food you're growing up we had there was there were a lot of us yeah we my mother worked she was a nurse and she wasn't just a nurse but she was a nurse's aide so she got even less respect than she deserved even though she did all the the grunt work yeah you know And was really smart and really passionate about it. Did really well. She worked with geriatrics.

So she just worked really hard. And there were eras in my life when we'd sit around the table and eat. But I was very, very young. And my parents got divorced when I was five. So there weren't many big family meals

after that. Did you stay living with your mom? Yeah, I did. All of you? No. So there weren't many big family meals. Did you stay living with your mom? Yeah, I did. All of you? No, it went back and forth. Okay. My childhood is not very linear. It wasn't very cohesive. It was very like...

Oh, you're one of the youngest. It was very chaotic. I'm the middle child, middle girl. A middle child, middle girl. Obvious. Obvious. Back to food and stuff. we had food that we ate my mom i don't want to say she's a bad cook she would never listen to this bless her heart maybe she would she surprises me sometimes she's more of a look at bird pictures

of birds on uh instagram lady that's why you knew the parakeet uh listen i know a parakeet from miles away thank you mom but like she's she's just like she's a different lady she's kind of disconnected so what was it what was emil she wasn't a great cook i mean it was because we grew up poor so there was a lot of like um like the memories of my childhood have been like a family it goes in phases because of divorce and stuff like that so there's different ways it's like you know when i was a dad it would be like pizza remember when you were a kid that was a big deal to go out to eat that was the thing you know it's different now i think but like if i was with you when we were with dad he would like get pizza you'd be like dad's getting pizza what

because you can get that all the time i didn't have spaghetti till i was like six i remember the day i had it the first time but it was like beans and cornbread big pots of beans what kind of beans things like that great northern beans like white beans pinto beans okay yeah and it would just be salt you put a ham hock in it or like a turkey neck or some cheap meat and then you fed everybody everybody get a protein you'd have like you'd have like fried okra with it or you always had fried potatoes with it you know it's just like very simple meat potatoes did you enjoy it yeah i loved it you know i still love it i'm that's what has ruined me i think i'm so meat and potatoes that you know people i went out to this dinner in la recently it was like a business thing and i was just joking but half joking but i just was like because i didn't i was talking to the person who was planning he's like i'm gonna see you on such and such i'm

gonna book the restaurant i was like god help you if, I'm going to see you on such and such. I'm going to book the restaurant. And I was like, God help you if you try to get me to split open a bone and eat the marrow. And I was like, God help you. But I was joking. But, you know. Where did you go? We went to Evie or something like that. It was a nice restaurant.

And the food was really nice. But I just, it was just like, my point was, it was like, don't take me somewhere nice. It's going to be lost on me. And I'm going to, like, not feel bad about myself. I'm just going to be like, I don't want you to think i'm not grateful because i'm like a lamb thank you i don't know what to do with this you don't eat lamb do you no you don't we did not eat that to eat steak um i don't now you you just eat poultry yeah that's the thing i have heard you talk about roadkill and eating roadkill this blew people's minds in this country. So I was, I don't remember

how old I was, 20 something. And they were asked, the question was, it was from a magazine, tell me about the first time you got stoned. And I said, okay. I remember like it was yesterday. I was 13 to 14 and me and my cousin, who I lived with at the time, played hooky. We were staying from school and we were home by ourselves. And he had pot. And he was like, do you want to get stoned? I was like, yes. And he was a major stoner by that point.

He's kind of a mess up. He's a horrible kid person now. But anyway, that's whatever. So we're getting stoned, and I'm sitting there. It's not really working, but he's obviously ripped out of his gourd. And we had these windows that you could slide open. They didn't go up and down. They slid the other way.

And he gets out his BB gun, and he starts shooting into the trees he's shooting squirrels i know what's happening you know whatever so i'm just telling the story i'm like so this is the first time i got stoned and i was like and then you know we he got the munchies because the stone you know oh my god gives you the munchies so he went around and he cleaned them and we and we ate them we fried them and ate them okay so there's the thing is what do they taste like chicken it always does but the thing was it i was like telling the story i was the thing i was just telling the story about getting stoned and the journalist was like what like i was like yeah that was my yeah i was yeah it didn't really work like it was like i what? Like, I was like, yeah, that was my, yeah, it didn't really work.

Like, it was, that sounds, and then he was like, but you ate the squirrel? I did not know it was weird until then. And then people were obsessed with it. Did you skin, who's skinned the squirrel? I'm not skinning, yeah, he did, yeah. But we ate squirrel a lot. What did you have it with? You would fry it, you would fry it like Yeah, he did, yeah. But we ate squirrel a lot. What did you have it with? You would fry it.

You would fry it like chicken. Fry it, yeah. You would eat it like, you know, you put it in dumplings. If you look at Loretta Lynn, you know, Loretta Lynn, she has a cookbook. And if you go in her cookbook, there's squirrel all in it. What was her famous song, Loretta Lynn? I'm proud to be a coal miner's daughter. I'm going to start serving, just sorting this out.

Mum is going to ask you about your last supper, okay? Well, I wasn't there, but I hear that it was pretty sad. I mean, I bet it was happy for him, but, you know, later days. Would you have squirrel on your last supper? For old time's sake. You know what's funny is one of my friends is from Britain, came home with us to Arkansas and my brother's 52

and he lives where my parents my mom and dad grew up back then it was the smallest it was like 200 or something people now it's only 80 people but he still lives down there 80 people yeah you know people you think it's like the old days but people still that's the way people live you know everything my granny ate she canned

everything she wore she sewed she's one of those Pentecostal women that had the way people live. You know, everything my granny ate, she canned. Everything she wore, she sewed. She's one of those Pentecostal women that had long hair and only wore dresses. Oh my gosh.

She was fantastic. Spoken tongues in church. Tongues. That's my dad's mom. That's my granny ditto. Oh my gosh. But those people, like it's still real down there.

So ditto is your real name? Yeah. See, that's what people understand. Granny ditto. Granny ditto. My dad's name is Homer. Well, he died, people understand. Granny Ditto. Granny Ditto. My dad's name is Homer. Well, he died, my dad.

Homer Ditto. Homer Ditto, yeah. But what's your... I have a great name. That's a great name. I know. There's a whole thing. There's a fluke about it.

And I always had to... It's a whole other conversation. I'll tell you about it when we're on the... I'll tell you about it when I come over to watch Call My Daughter. What's your heritage? So everyone from America has heritage. They do, but I don't know mine.

I think when you're like, I think one thing when you grow up poor, you're just like, ah, hell, I don't know. We're all cousins, really. Someone said to me the other day, where were they from? Oh, something about an arranged marriage. Their parents or grandparents have been in an arranged marriage and they were cousins. And I was like, oh, my God, they were in an arranged marriage,

but they were cousins, my grandparents too. I was they were an arranged marriage but they were cousins my grandparents too i was like oh my god but everybody's the same i don't know my heritage it's a very uh very straight family tree because straight down doesn't fork but i don't know a lot about it i know that my ditto is supposedly french french um. Here's a crazy story about that. We grew up, my dad would say, well, my great-granddad was Benny and that's my brother's name now, my oldest brother.

Benny. And we were told that we were Italian. DT sounds more Italian than French. Right, it does. And it's D-I-T-T-O. So, and my dad and my nephews, some of my nephews because I have a lot, but my dad had huge

black curly hair. Like in the 70s it looked amazing because he loved the leisure state. And he had huge like big curly like puffy hair. And then yeah, so we were like, and he was very all of me. So we were like oh yeah, of course we're Italian. Did he marry? But it turns out we weren't at all. Did he was very all of these. So we were like, oh, yeah, of course we're a child.

But it turns out we weren't at all. Did he marry again? My dad. Yeah. Yeah, he married somebody named Ellen. Ellen. And what I love about that, do you like Tori Amos, Jessie? Yes.

Okay, here we go. So my mother's name is Myra. Myra. She's Val Myra, but she was by Myra. And my stepmother's name is Ellen, and her birthday is September 5th. And Tori Amos' name is Myra Ellen Amos, actually, and her birthday is September 5th. And I was such a huge fan that I thought that meant so much to me. I was like, I knew we were connected.

How funny. Beth, if you're celebrating, what would your meal be? Oh, that's a good question. That's a really good question, social worker Lenny. You're like, she's not reacting to this dead thing. Let's rephrase. Yeah, I'm not. I don't like the dead thing. I don't mind.

But it's not about the dead. It's if you were going to go on a desert island for six months, what would be your last meal before you went away? So it can be a celebration meal. Meatloaf. Yeah. But not not with with turkey with mashed potatoes but would you make it with turkey yeah and hell i maybe i'd even eat the beef if i was like it's my last meal might as well be theirs too okay you know and would you have would you have do you like gravy i'm not a gravy on my meatloaf kind of person okay um y'all don't have meatloaf over here.

I can make it. It's good. Yeah, it's lovely. It's tasty. Like, especially, oh, man. And I think, like, the East Coast way, like, if you go to a deli or something, you get, like, a hot meatloaf sandwich. It's made with breadcrumbs, kind of like a big meatball.

But in the South, it's, again, it's kind of a money thing. It's, like, in, I think, different parts. Maybe not just the South, but, like, we don't have breadc It's like, and I think different parts, and maybe not just the South, but like we even have breadcrumbs, unless we're going to make them, to get real. You know, it's not like, you know. We use saltines. Saltines.

Yeah, and some people use oatmeal. But that's quite good saltines. Oh, yeah, it's the best. I would love to make it. Yeah, salt and everything. You put ketchup on the top. Oh, gosh. And then that turns into this funny little skin. Yeah. Like a nice little, like you know how you make homemade american pudding yeah american pudding yeah yeah yeah and like if you do it just right if you get homemade from scratch there's

that skin on the top it's kind of like that and you like to burst that through when you put your yeah and then you cut it and the best end is the burnt end on the end and you don't talk about that now the thing that that that is probably my... Any vegetables? Yeah, of course. That's another thing about growing up poor. I was thinking like kids now, not just poor, but country. You know, everybody had a garden. Everyone had space for that.

So you grew your own vegetables. Everybody had... Yeah, and if we didn't, because Mom and Dad worked so much, which the back to that thing where we didn't have a lot of meals together because yeah everybody worked yeah and my mom was a nurse and sometimes she had to work at night so who who did the cooking at home if your mom did my dad could cook but mom mom did and it was very southern fair like you had fried chicken and yeah he'd have fried catfish you know you caught it yeah okay that's what my dad saw the family that family, that's what they did. They lived on the riverboat.

Dirt. Dirt. Yeah. Do you want to hear a story? I have so many stories. I don't want to take up too much time. You tell the story. I want to check if the chicken's cooked.

Mum, will you come over here and check? Because I'm scared. I don't want to give any. Why don't you just put your food picture in there. And if it's pink. This is fun. I'm coming in here. Okay, good. fine, come in.

I spatch-coughed this, and I don't... Who has never spatch-coughed? Hey, babe, it's very... That's what she said. That was a good lesbian joke, solid. Solid lesbian joke. Um... Isn't that... Yeah.

I would probably have cooked it slightly longer. Okay, well, let's put it back in there now. I don't want to kill Bethany. Yeah, I just put sugar for another nice time. Nothing's behind it. There's nothing that you can do to kill me. Did you know what my dad used to say about old milk and stuff? What?

This is one of my favorite Homer Ditto phrases. He'd be like, Dad, this milk was expired two days ago. And I'd be like, I don't know what day it is. And he was right. It's a good explanation. Yeah. Come over here. Well, now I'm going to need to clean up after you.

No, no. Just come and sit. Just come and sit. You are the guest. Sit down. I'll be right back. How long are you here for? A hundred years.

In life? Is this thing about my last meal? No. And y'all are wondering what I'm doing? No. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. How long are you here for? A hundred years. In life? Is this thing about my last meal? No.

And y'all are wondering because you want to make it for me? Yeah. Because you want to make it for me? Because I'm going to die soon? That is such a funny answer. What would you drink at your last meal? Tea. I would have no tea.

No alcohol? My tea. Do you ever drink a sugar? You know, I grew up in a dry county. Oh my God. Yeah. But, hang on. So, no one knew you were smoking dope.

Shit dope. What's a dry county? You're not allowed to drink. You can't buy alcohol. You can't serve alcohol. How many counties are... There's a lot of... Do you drink, Beth?

Oh, I love drinking. Would you like a little glass? Do you want this to give even more off the rails? How off the rails do you want that glass to be? Do you want bourbon? I'll have it. I love bourbon. I love bourbons.

Okay, I've got a little bubbles in the fridge, so we may as well. I think, you know. What are you talking about? I'm a star. I've heard they make tea. Hell, I didn't know they made tea. What do they say in the south when you're drinking? Just cheers.

There's hands. Well, they don't say anything because it's dry do they say in the south when you're drinking? Just cheers. There's hands. They don't say anything because it's dry. Well, they're like, you're going to hell, you big dumbass. Oh my God. You missed hearing that Beth's paternal grandmother used to speak in tongues at church. Yeah. She was a Pentecostal. Did you ever get

close to that? I mean, well, no, hell hell no you know when you watch people like that here's the thing is i'm not religious i don't believe in god and i don't want to take it away from people that do and my mother chicken i do believe in that chicken if it ever gets done no be fine i do believe in like what people believe is real like i am not you know what i mean like i don't because i don't know and i'm comfortable with that and part of that i think comes from being in such an oppressive background of like not even being able to question why like be like what is why does it say this like not even questioning that there is something

right or wrong but you didn't even have, there was no room for a conversation about any of it. Not with my mother. My mother is amazing. I love her. Is she religious? She loves Jesus. She loves, you know. So she'll go to church still?

No. She did not go to church because I don't think she felt welcome there. She sent us to church because that was the right thing to do. She had so many damn kids. And on a Sunday, she's like, get the hell out of the house. I know there's a van that'll come pick you up.

I know you'll be safe. You'll learn about God. That's where you're going. And was she okay about you coming out? Yeah, my mom's really great. Yeah. The beauty of having a mom like mine. It's hard to explain Arkansas and the way I grew up because she didn't guide me at all. Sometimes I needed it

and she didn't. She didn't have enough to go around. She was raising babies. There were babies to be taken care of. I didn't hold that against her but it was difficult. But I think that there's this thing this energy. It's the God thing

for her or whatever. I think there was this energy that she like put out somehow that made she put out but to make her i don't know what it is but i do believe in that somehow it's hard to make it make sense with how i feel but like like with my own feelings to like higher powers and stuff but i think that because she did love jesus and she was really instilled us with a sense of like empathy was very important to her and she had a very rough childhood yeah i think a lot of women at like of y'all's age did yeah how old's your mom mom she's 67 she's baby she's the baby i mean but you know thing. Y'all would have the same memory. Yeah. But she also working really hard. That was her thing. Not really, really hard.

Does she still work? No, because I take care of her. Good. Yeah. That was my only goal. I'm not rich. I am compared to other people. I don't want to say, I'm poor.

Because I have been poor, and I know I'm not. And I always say I'm very comfortably upper middle class, compared to a place that I grew up that feels rich. You don't still live there. But that's my goal, is to be able to take care of her. I mean, I say that like she's in a home. You don't live near her? I don't.

I live like 2,000-something miles away from her. You live in L.A. now? No, I live in Portland, Oregon. Oh, you live in Portland now. I couldn't live in L.A. You could pay me enough to live in L.A., but not forever. But you can pay me enough to work there, but I couldn't live in LA. You could pay me enough to live in LA, but not forever. But you could pay me enough to work there, but I couldn't live there. So where do you do all your recording and everything?

Depends on who's making the record. So your latest record? Yeah, we did it in Hawaii. Hawaii? We did it on Hawaii, in Hawaii. Why did you choose Hawaii to record? I did. We worked with, on this record record and he's one of my favorite

people to work with is rick reuben jesse you know you know rick oh wow yeah so when you know you go where he goes you're not gonna be like rick listen baby i got a really comfortable three-bedroom apartment in portland come over put your feet up like it's not gonna work like that so has he got a studio there kinda yeah that's what was so cool about this record the making that record was that it was so because like when i say we made a record in hawaii yeah to people with rick rubin like you know what they pictured jesse like you know the shangri-la in malibu that famous studio that he owns it's like legendary yeah yeah I've heard of it

like the Bob Dylan yeah yeah so he owns that yeah whoa that's beautiful thank you babes that is really beautiful

thanks I do you like to cook or do you just do yeah I love cooking wow that's cool right sorry that has been

right faffy sorry you say you think the spatchcock is going to be a bit easier. No, that's the opposite of what I think. I've never spatchcocked. So what we've got, we've got spatchcocked chicken with a bit of parmesan

and lemon and butter underneath the skin with orzo and spring veg and then a tarragon yogurt dressing on the salad. And then we've got a little pud after, which is quite light. Pud, stodgy pud. Help yourself, go. You go, you go, mama, you go. So did you eat well with Rick Rubin in Hawaii? Was it an important part of the agenda or you just like left it to rock out? Me, okay, Rick is, it's not,

oh, it's so hard to explain. Oh, it's just, no, it's, no, we went out, did we go out to eat? When were in malibu yeah we when we worked on music for me in in like 2008 or something do you know i'm all right you're all right you can dish me i can bring it over to you since you're there what would you like do you want leg breastbone i would like a dark meat on the bone please if it's easy to get it take the leg take the box box, but take that leg. And now here, I'll move this for you.

So this is, it's just a salad, which has got yogurt and tarragon dressing. This is my favorite kind of salad. Really? Okay, good. I like it if it's really chill or if it's over the top. I'm using my personal fork, but I did not. That's fine. You're our friend.

Thank you. Thank you. Did you hear that? I heard. So you were saying, the you thank you did you hear that i heard so you were you were saying the thing about rick you worked with him in 2008 yeah so when we were in malibu and you're in the city and there's places to eat and stuff like that we would go out to eat you know but when i think what it's so funny to try to explain kawaii to people thank you because it is very beautiful i'm sorry it's very beautiful and luxurious right like you

i do not want to sound like i'm not grateful it's so hard to explain but it's oh it's just trying to paint the picture so people i think people are saying you know rick rick rick ruben rick ruben of all the people then you know are like he must have it's got to be of course he has access to anything he wants you know equipment sound whatever but we were on an island and not even an island with say a lot of things at hand like you know if we wanted a certain amp we had to we'd have to wait like rushed you know hopefully you would get in four days you know like that so we were working like that together and it wasn't because it was unorganized at all. It was because, you know, that's where he was kind of like,

that's just where he was at at the time. I don't want to like air all this business, but I'm sure you could read about it. But, you know, like he had lost his home in a fire. Of course, the Malibu fires. Yeah. I didn't realize that. And I think like, I think after that, maybe I could be wrong.

Sorry, Rick. Call me if you're mad. He won't be mad. He doesn't. But he might be. But it'll be fine. We'll talk it out. Or, you know, he'll just send me a brainwave.

But it was a very, the studio was very beautiful. It was very country. It was very rural. But with Rick, it was very, like, I rural but with rick it was very like i say piecemeal is the best word i can use like he was on the you know we were on the beach and you could see and like rick is very zen and that way everything's white he always gets a custom couch built and if you have you ever heard that about him that he lays down people say he lays down but he doesn't he doesn't lay down with us he has but he said he's a player downer now

and he is on a big fitness thing we talked about that a lot too because like we talked about how he was about his whole life and i've always been about to like that my mom was like i should feed you three jars of baby food before you'd stop crying like i was always a real healthy eater had a real good appetite just always was big and like so we talked a lot about like relating about that and like how food was something that you could always rely on whatever in my house it always wasn't because it was all i mean we weren't starving but we took whatever so it was different different relationships but it was really piecemeal it wasn't glamorous where would you take us out in portland if we were coming to meet you where would you be like first point point of call I'm taking to this spot for food?

It's so different now, you know, because, well, I was never a foodie. Right. That's the problem. That's all right, but where's your favourite place to eat at? But it is a foodie town. Mm-hmm. Big time. I think the best thing about Portland, and what really, I think,

kicked off the foodie thing was it was one of the best places to get vegan food. Like, it was, and I think that really started, like, people opening different kinds of restaurants and, like, looking for different things. But, in my opinion, because I moved there a long time ago when it wasn't, I moved there 20, basically 20 years ago. Yeah. So, where I would take you would probably just be somewhere I eat all the time. You know where I would take you would probably just be somewhere I eat all the time. You know where I would take you? Where?

I would take you to El Burrito Azteca, which is just a burrito place that we go to. What's your order there? I always get a chicken burrito. Can't go wrong with a burrito. No.

It's comforting. Oh, this is another thing that's ADD brain. How many Americans have you had on this podcast? Quite a few. Quite a few. Quite a few.

Have you ever noticed, and maybe probably from being in America, we do not know how to use a knife and fork? It's not the knife and fork that we struggle with. It's clearing the plates before everybody's finished at the table. What do you mean? In America that they do that. Yeah. We're told by Kiefer Sutherland. Kiefer Sutherland told you this?

This is the funniest thing already I've ever heard. It would be considered impolite to, like, if my plate is finished and we're in a restaurant, they clear the plate

even though you haven't finished. Isn't he Canadian? He is Canadian, I think. Yeah, he is, but he said it.

I'm joking, it doesn't matter either way. He's American. Oh, really, he wants to speak for Americans, huh?

No, I'm just kidding. What if I was, like, mad about that? Well, you, that's right. I've never heard that? Come on, you. That's right.

I've never heard that before. So why do you think Americans have terrible... Once again, two very different class systems we grew up in. Okay. You know what I mean? Where I'm from, if you went to a restaurant, they'd know you were done by the stacks of ingey plates at the buffet that you went to because the kids ate... The buffet.

Because the kids ate free on Tuesday. Do you like a buffet? Yes. Me too. Yeah. Hello. I love it. A little bit of everything.

You can just get a little bit of everything. And then you go back. And you go back. Yeah. Sorry, I spit. I was so excited. So is there a good buffet place in Portland? No.

There's not. Oh, there used to be. There used to be an Ethiopian buffet in Portland that was awesome. Bloody hell. That's my favorite food, Ethiopian food. You're kidding. That big sour pancake. I love that.

You know what's funny is I don't like sourdough. But there's something about that bread because it's like injera. It's like a tiffa. Oh, my God. There's something about it in the way that... There's something very southern about it. There's got to be some link because it's like greens, colored greens. Yeah.

Potatoes and cabbage. Do you like curry then? I don't know it very well. But that's what you have on Ethiopian. Mm-hmm. And like kids and a lot of things. Yeah. I like Ethiopian curry.

But like I only know the American version. I've never been to Ethiopia, you know. It's my favorite thing. I will eat it until i'm sick oh right and i love it it's just like i like that all the food touches i what do you do you do you not partake in a curry when you get here lentils and stuff so it's like beans and cornbread it's like what i was saying earlier it has this weird thing it's familiar um Yeah, I do. What do I eat when we come? Oh, I'll tell you what I always want to get.

Number one, I get flapjacks from Marks and Spencer's. That bucket? That bucket of those? How did it feel? I mean, you did the Six Music Festival. You headlined it. Was that the first time you performed these songs live? Yeah.

How did that feel? It was fine. You know know i think it looked great i don't know i never know i don't pay attention i don't like to pay attention how does it feel but how did it feel to be on stage the hardest part was with being with alice in the morning hard it was the hardest part not because you adore her because i adore her so much it sounded great it was so hard i couldn't she she looks fabulous she looks fabulous she was sounded great she had one like i loved you it was so cool to me because i don't know her at all it's fresh when i met her right um and i did not think in a million years

she was going to say yes to it and i was often like i wonder if they paid a lot of money or something but not in a mean way but i was just like wow like we were so lucky she meant so much to me for so many reasons so that was really hard for me and I never had that like I just I didn't have a bad time but I was so emotional but I was really upset I was like really teary it was really hard couldn't remember the lines I'm not intimidated by many people. And you are such a performer as well. And that's the thing. I'm so wackadoo. And really, I wish I could have just sat down and let her do it.

Right. And it's like there's some people in life like, I think there's another way of just why it's fun to be a part of this world is that you get to see so many. It ruins the magic sometimes, but it also is like the part of the magic is that you get to see so many it comes from it's it's it ruins the magic sometimes but it also is like the part of the magic is that you get to see people and yeah it's so surreal but like it's one thing like to meet people and like be around them and then you see them and you go but it's another thing to like sing their own words to them while they're singing them to you

that was really hard well i i loved it, and I appreciated it, but I couldn't sing through my tears. Oh, that's bad. Yeah. And I was trying not to, like... I'm not good. Like, I love... You know what I mean?

I like to play shows. I hate rehearsals. You're playing a different show, Libra. You like rehearsal? I do like to be rehearsed. I hate it. Jessie, who would make you cry? Yeah.

Probably Sade. What? Well, yeah, fuck yeah. I would have just jumped into the ocean. I would have literally been like, well, I'm out. I hate it Jessie who would make you cry yeah probably Sade what well yeah fuck yeah I would have just jumped into the ocean I would have literally been like

well I'm out or Barbara Sade or Barbara wait Barbara Barbara yeah well the one and only Barbara are you listening

to her fucking autobiography babe I'm I'm about I'm about 500 hours in and I still haven't finished the first chapter I am savoring it.

I can't. Listen to it. I'm just like, I don't want it to go away. I don't want it to leave. Don't worry, it lasts forever. It's very long. It's true. How far are you in?

Not very. She's so good. Are you listening to it? Will you read it? She's brilliant at writing. There's no way I would read that. When I heard that she goes on tangents. I know, and I love it. she's so are you listening to it she's brilliant there's no way i would read that when i heard that she ended that she goes on tangents i know and i love it and she's like yeah oh that was a

funny story she's like yeah i wore a red scarf yeah um i need to ask you some food questions did we get the last supper ish did we try okay dessert. Do you have, oh, so coconut, coconut cream, coconut cream cake. Oh yeah. But very American. You've got a good recipe for that. I do. Thank you darling.

The thing about, yeah thank you, yeah thanks. But really thank you. The thing about that recipe I always joke about is that I like to call it the funeral cake

because in the South someone has to die for you to get that cake. You know how like everybody brings you food when you die and like, you know how like when you're dead and people bring you food so it sounds like but like when someone dies you go over to their house and then you eat all the food yeah then the poor old grandma ends up having to clean up the mess so it's so painful

to watch but there's always the coconut cake and you're like is this what it takes and even as a little fat kid being like but y'all see what's happening this cake is so good they're never even gonna have it so where would i find you get it easter sometimes because people like to make it look like a burger okay um i got my recipe you know those cookbooks here to people at work my mom worked as a nurse

at the hospital or the nursing home they would put their recipes together and sell them for charity you know and they came in that little plastic binder I've got one of those I've got a few of those ones and she came from that.

But then, excuse me. That's where you copy it for me. The New York Times had one. Oh, they've got one. Coconut. But the only thing that I changed was instead of, it was that they used milk. Yeah. The Southern one uses milk. And the Northern one, the New York Times one used use milk. Yeah. The southern one uses milk

and the northern one, the New York Times one used coconut milk. So it's coconut cream cake. Or you could just coconut cake. Beth, can you cook? I used to and then I just got,

you know, I love hosting. I really love hosting and like, I think, my partner and I are really good at hosting. We really, really got into it. Then COVID came. But I think I had,. And, like, I think my partner and I are really good at hosting. We really, really got into it. Then COVID came.

But I think I had, you know, I was married and got a divorce. And I think something happened in that time, like post-divorce, that I was just, like, cooking. Like, I just stopped cooking as much. I don't know what it is. But also, she was vegetarian. So, it's called, you, so I learned to cook a lot of vegetarian food and stuff. So not anymore, not as much as I did. Would you have a little pud? Or are you finished with that?

Yeah, I'll have pud. Have you finished your main? Yeah, that's okay. I don't mean to be ugly. I can take it with me. Can I take it with me? Baby, you do not have to take it with you. I don't have to do anything I don't want to do.

You should have some pud. Is this a plum? Yes. That's my favourite stone fruit cup. Oh, good. So it's got a bit of Lapsang Souchong tea bags in it too, so you may get a little taste of tea. And then it's with creme fraiche and some ginger nut crunched on the top.

Lovely. I love it, mate. Oh, my gosh. You've got a proper accent. I'm really convincing. No, I'm not. Lovely. Lovely.

I love it, mate. Beth Ditto. Can you play anything? Not well enough. Can you? Does it not frustrate you, though? Yeah. And then do we get lessons?

No. Oh. No, because I don't have time for that. Because you're a punk. No, because I have ADD. I'm never going to learn that. I can't talk. Do you have to take anything for it? Yeah. Okay. Hell, I would not have gotten learn that. I can't stop. Do you have to take anything for it?

Yeah. Okay. Hell, I would not have gotten here today if I didn't have it. Really? Yeah, I got medicated like two years ago. When did you get diagnosed? Maybe three years ago. During quarantine.

I always knew I had it. I was always teased about having it. And people would be like, oh, you're so ADD. Especially my ex-wife would be like oh my god because she was virgo she's so grounded so is it adderall or ricin then i took adderall yeah and it's hard because it's a shortage not hard because like when you can get it it's on and end people really abuse it it's also a drug that you have to i mean it's quite literally amphetamine and it does keep speedy and it does whatever but I had never like even you know like we're having this conversation and we were talking about all

these different things yes and it's not a it's like it's going everywhere for the first time in my mind like I can I could always remember things but I can in my mind I'm more aware of like oh Beth you didn't finish that story about Aunt Nancy or you didn't finish that story about this. And not that it matters, but before I wouldn't even have noticed. I'd just been like, Aunt Nancy,

bubble pops, balloons, woo! Like, I wouldn't even have thought about it. And I think people thought that was like,

what's why, I've always been taught, like especially in music and stuff like that and being around like, label people or being around other musicians and like, especially like Macho i'm being around like label people or being around other musicians

and like especially like macho dude musicians who are like yeah like cool guitar who cares like like i could literally hear less but like you know someone has to make great music when good music happens to bad people and when bad music happens to good people but it's made me more like even though i can go from tangent to tangent and this there's the story that's a circle in my head and now i can see that i didn't finish it or i did is that or like i can make a list and do it and i used to not be able to do that but is that frustrating for you to see going off in tangents or you're fine you're okay with that because then you can go right i can pull it back to i don't mind tangents it's what ignorance was blitz was ignorance bliss i always knew i did it okay you know i knew that i

did it and i think that's the thing it's just like it's not even that what is bad or good but now i'm seeing that i did that and that but now i'm saying like oh if i did want to finish it whatever it's it's like you're making connections and you're keeping track of things that you never did before like one of those things is like i can pack my own suitcase i could not do that before and not that i couldn't like yeah i know how to bring your toothbrush beth you big dummy and i'm good because when you have add and like you're diagnosed with it especially or like you have important things that you have to keep up with like your passport whatever your passport's the most important thing everything else is replaceable even your your phone your passport, whatever. Your passport's the most important thing. Everything else is replaceable, even your phone, your credit cards, whatever.

But your passport is what you don't. So I'm always just like passport, passport. Like you're almost to the point that sometimes you can't relax or sleep. Or if I have an appointment, this was before I took venison, if I had an appointment at 8 p.m. or something, or if I had an appointment at 9 a.m. in the state, I would stay up all night, scared to death I a.m. in the state I would step all night scared to death I was going to miss it so I would just sit there and then what happens is I end up

being late anyway because I my body doesn't like weirdly or for whatever reason process time the same like I'll be like 15 minutes that's tons of time like and I really believe that like I'll be like I can do a full face in 30 minutes no you can't so now it's helped me do that it just make you know it is a drug and it is well i don't feel like it's a drug i think it's medicine do you feel like it's abused and it's there's a stigma i also think like it's hard to get right now there's a shortage of it so that feels really scary but it has changed my life i didn't know that there was a chemical reason and now i do and it kind of it is heartbreaking sometimes but it's fine and it does like change the way you think about everything you know you'll be like do people see me like that

and usually i don't care beth it's been such an long day no it's been an honor and a total treat to be able to sit with you the food was so delicious thank you it really was i'm not paying you thank you because i would just be like thank you for dinner thank you you know what i mean but yeah but i just want to say i think you're so special thank you and you're think, so adored by so many people. And you're a star. Thank you. That's so kind. And I love your stories.

Thank you. And I love your tangents. I love it all. I love Beth Ditto. Thank you. So thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. I am so happy to be here.

And your podcast is amazing. And the way that people, people are really talking. Like, people talk. You're so generous. But sometimes, sometimes, mostly with with money because I'm really rich so like I'm not I do fine

I'm coming to your house but I love to tell people I'm so rich I am thank you for having me I wish I could have answered a question thank you

you answered so many questions you are amazing can I just check when your album's coming I don't know it's out on the 22nd March thank you for saying that because I would never

have remembered I'll be like we're talking because we're friends I'm sorry well I hope you're going to be at Glastonbury together

Glasto do overs let's sneak in oh my god I have an idea what you're going to come and steal the picture

you and me do you all sneak into other people's shows oh my god like the biggest ones too like fan style but I think you should try and wear the same thing and have the stripes oh my god but that outfit i was wearing my friend giles giles pearson made that and he made all that stuff back then i haven't seen him in years and now that

people are those pictures and stuff are coming back up i'm like people are so nice to me and they say such nice things about the way i dress or whatever and like but I just feel like I'm like I never say his name and that's not fair he was the person who was there when nobody would

make anything for me well I I love you on stage I love what you I love how you look I love how you are the most incredible performer

you're also just gorgeous and lovely thank you so so let's have I'm gonna find you at some of these and lovely thank you so thank you so there you go let's have i'm gonna find you at some of these festivals yeah i won't find you we'll find each other because i have plans for us it's hilarious okay great hijinks hijinks let's get in trouble

let's get arrested let's get arrested I love Beth Bitter. She's a force of nature, darling. She's wonderful. She's fab. She's so funny, witty, warm. Has like a story for everything loved it still never got the end of the catfish story oh yeah nancy on the on the houseboat also shout out to ed smith because that that was a really good recipe it's very very similar to the nigella chicken in orzo with lemon

and you just bake it in the oven well i'm gonna do it for my friends i love the tarragon yogurt dressing too that was yummy uh wonderful joe has come to help with the cleanup she's back she's back god bless joe she's we do cook but we're not as good at cleaning up so yeah appreciate it yeah um and uh my son has just entered the conversation do you want to say hi hi look what he bought you he bought me a little leaf tell mom what it is a bay leaf oh we'll have you as a guest on the podcast soon um thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week