Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 27: Sara Pascoe

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

We’ve wanted comedian, podcaster and presenter of the 'Great British Sewing Bee' Sara Pascoe on the pod for so long, and this week she joined us for lunch and a natter! As a mum of 2 very young kids, Sara took a break from feeding and popped round for a quick catch up, and treated us to some hilarious stories. She shared her love of frozen pizzas when she was younger, working at the Millennium Dome in London, her tips on how to deal with hecklers in the crowd at a gig, currently living on caffeine, and she confesses that her husband’s roast potatoes are the reason she married him! Sara’s brand new book ‘Weirdo’ is released on the 25th April, and her ongoing book podcast ‘Weirdo’s Book Club’ with friend of pod Cariad Lloyd is fab! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here at my house on cooking duty and we have a comedian. We haven't had a comedian for ages. Ages, I love a comedian, Jessie. We've wanted Sarah Pascoe for years. She's fabulous. She's coming over and we are making a vegetarian meal. I think I thought she was vegan, but apparently she's a vegetarian. I've had quite a stressful morning. I'm trying a new heart rate thing. This whoop thing. And I... Why are you trying that?

I want to understand myself better. Anyway, I'm doing that, and I just had a very stressful thing where I had to get into the children's activities. We did go for brunch at at the weekend Ravinda Bogle has a new draconian brunch menu I have to say that bread and butter bacon and gruyere pudding was very delicious we loved it I'm still thinking about it um how was your weekend mum I was with you Christ I wouldn't have thought you'd forget that

And we're tethered when we go to Los Angeles Speaking of which, so Pudding Wise is our friend from Los Angeles Benny Blanco has a new book out called Open Wide, it's coming out in April sometime and so we tried out one of his recipes which is Key Lime Pie

I feel like every great cookbook has to have a key lime pie mother absolutely done and then for mains i'm i've done anna jones has also got a new cookbook out and it's called easy wins and it is so good for any vegetarians you should absolutely be getting anna jones cookbooks and this one is brilliant and it focuses on different ingredients like staple ingredients so an onion or garlic tahini chili tomatoes and how you can use them so I'm making an aubergine parmigiana but it's done with chili and a really nice oregano breadcrumb topping and then I've done her wedge salad which I didn't have the herbs for, the chives and dill,

but it's really nice. It's a wedge salad. You make a tahini and yogurt dressing with some lemon juice and some garlic, and you do some croutons with green olives in it too. And it just looks really nice. So we're doing that for mains. We have Sarah Pascoe,

who's coming over to talk. I'm so excited. Well, lots of things, but she does have a new book out called Weirdo Well actually it's not a new book, it was hardback last year and now it's come out in paperback, it's called Weirdo It's her first novel

She also has a podcast with an old Table Manners guest, lovely Carrie Adloid, called The Weirdo's Book Club and she is coming over for lunch Sarah Pascoe coming up on table manners sarah pascoe thanks so much for being here thank so much. We have wanted you on for so long. I wanted to come on because my best friend Cariad said this is one of the best things she's ever done.

Oh my God. Not even like promo, like the best thing she's ever done. We loved her. She loved you. We loved Cariad. We had such a lovely time. And mum thought she was incredibly confident about her. Confident about her meringues.

Her meringues. Have you ever tried a carriad meringue? Well, she said, I actually want to tell you I make the best meringues you've ever tasted in your whole life. Mum said, that's quite... I've only seen them. She wouldn't let you taste them.

Well, no, it's because I'm a vegan, so... But she... They're quite ugly. Oh, my God. No, no, no, no, no. Actually... Hold on. We have to... they said you were vegetarian

yeah you know i am vegetarian i'm vegetarian i'm vegetarian i i okay what i should say is i have i have i've always been a vegan and then with pregnancy and breastfeeding i became okay more lax because i always thought you were a vegan yes i was a vegan are we okay with some cheese today shitting cheese will be great did you see our faces also if you'd cooked a burger I probably would have eaten it condensed milk no it's all great it's all going to be fabulous okay but just so it hasn't got meat in it but my point with the cream my point with the meringue to bring it back to cariad is they always look very sloppy but maybe they taste amazing and I'm sure they do Sarah you and cariad went to Sussex Uni

yes that's right I wonder if we overlapped I was at Sussex oh were you I was I finished in 2007 oh so I finished 2004 so just before you what did you study there English literature oh I had no idea what did you study English as I said Cariad um so a few years ago they would have asked you they did an alumni thing where they wanted to inspire their students and like they could go on to do anything so they asked lots of the i guess notable alumni if they wanted to have a mask made of their face do you remember this i did not get that okay it was probably a dm on instagram rather than an email okay so maybe tell me more well everyone said no apart from me and frank Boyle. Which meant, and I thought, you know, everyone would have said yes.

You know, lovely to sort of say to students, you can do whatever you want with English, rather than you can do nothing. You've got a stupid degree and lots of debt. And so, yeah, these students were all in a lecture hall, and they had a choice of me or Frankie Boyle. That was it for their future. For a mask. And they were all wearing the mask. How did That was it. For their future. For a mask. And they were all wearing the mask.

How did they make it? Oh my God. The mask. You know those paper ones with holes in the eyes? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a picture. So it wasn't like a COVID mask. So you were like wearing your face on your mouth.

No, no. Okay. Did you get one? No. Did they not even send one in the post? No. So I was thinking of those for your 40th, darling. Of course.

We will wear them. That's a good idea. Like a hen do, yeah. So I was thinking of those for your 40th, darling. Of course. We all wear them. That's a good idea. Like a hen do, yeah. Now I'm thinking, just to discuss, I'm not going to do Studio 84 anymore. Why? I'm going to do closing parties. I thought you were Studio 54. Well, because we were born in 84.

Oh, sorry. Of course. I was doing a little play on, you know. Okay. What are you doing? I'm going to do a closing party, like they do in in Ibiza But it's a closing party to my 30s So it's going to be a big How do you feel about that, Lenny?

Maybe it's a bit niche We don't know closing parties I know closing ceremonies from the Olympics Is that what you mean? Yeah, closing ceremonies Is that what you mean? We'll bring a flag around Me on a chariot

Yeah We'll get Danny Boyle to direct it for you Amazing Jessie, I'm not sure about that Okay, well you don't have to come It sounds too full on clubby with me on a chariot with flames we'll get Danny Boyle to direct it for you amazing Jessie I'm not sure about that okay well you don't have to come it sounds too full on

clubby yeah and everyone sounds like they'll be hungover and tired where's the food you are tired at the moment you're on full coffees

yes but I also think the whole thing of turning 40 isn't like oh now I'm exhausted my 30s are done you've got loads more to do no but the closing

parties in Aletha are the big party oh are they okay so clearly you and i've never been and also i know i've been i just didn't go to any parties i don't know about you sarah but i've been going to a few big birthday parties and i feel like there's too much small talk and i think people if you're going for a night out you've got two kids young children if you're going out a night out, you've got two kids, young children. If you're going out, you've got that babysitter, maybe you've got the babysitter, you've got parents to help in the morning. Maybe she wants to talk to people without little ones being there. No, I want to dance.

I don't want to talk, I want to dance. Do you like dancing? You're both wrong. The whole point of having a job in the evenings is you never have to go to anyone's parties or anyone's weddings or anyone's anything. Because you're booked up well in advance. They go, what are you doing June 25? And you go, sorry, I'm in Manchester. You don't have to ever go anywhere, ever.

So are you more of a kind of a brunch gal? Oh, no. At the moment, I don't socialise at all. Except a podcast. A podcast, yes. I get to see Cariad because we have a book podcast. I get to see you today because we're coming to your house. I love work, but it's very limited at the moment

because we haven't yet really worked out childcare. And my husband's Australian, so his family are really far away. So we don't really have a lot of family support. Oh, Lenny, that would be lovely. I'll steal you. Do you live locally? No, we're in New Finsbury Park. No, she won't be sure.

You won't come there. Don't go north. Well, it's fair enough. I used to live in Lewisham and then I would have been, she won't be sure. You won't come there. Don't go north. Well, it's fair enough. I used to live in Lewisham and then I would have been the same. Oh, yes. Yeah, I used to live there. Do you miss Lewisham?

No. I found the trains hard. I love being on the Victoria Line, actually. And you really appreciate it. It is the best line, isn't it? Is that because you're always in Soho doing comedy? Yeah. Yeah, I'm always travelling back from a gig.

That's the thing, yeah. So it is important. You don't want to be standing on one of those like oh no it's cancelled there's one in 40 minutes in the drizzle yeah who's looking after your babies when you're doing comedy at my husband who also does yes so we're having to balance we're having to balance and negotiate at the moment did you meet him on the comedy circuit i kind of did i was introduced to him in edinburgh but i don't remember because someone also came in with a really nice spaniel so someone went oh this is steen that's his name and i was like oh my god look at that spaniel so i really like accidentally had good game does he make you laugh

game does he make you laugh oh my god no he does he's funny he's he's he's he's adorable he's um you know when you're in the trenches with you know young children and earaches and not sleeping you do need someone who's good company through that going through it with you and then doing so do you all have a big laugh in the middle of the night? Except for the baby. There's lots of games and silliness, I would say. There's lots of, when one person's down, it's the other person's job to bring a bit of... To bring the performance.

Yes, yeah. Let's take it back to where you grew up. Where did you grow up and who was around the dinner table? Right, so I grew up mostly in Essex and um we didn't really eat at a table but mum and then two younger sisters and I think we're a bit feral I think there's a lot of sort of coping so my mum worked had to work you know because this is supporting a family by herself and uh so there was a lot of microwave pizzas and um christina my younger sister she only ate microwave chicken curry and any particular brand i don't know i can't remember the brand i know it had a paper box that's what i remember

back in the day it used to be bird's eye, darling. Was it? It was paper. Yeah. It was always in a little paper box. Was it? Yeah. So that's what I remember. And we very rarely ate around a table. And both of my sisters have rebelled from our childhood, Christina especially, and now they are very much, they've both got children, and they very much sit at the table, don't have phones, have conversation.

And then now they grow vegetables and things in their gardens. Very healthy, because we didn't have a healthy diet growing up. And what about you? conversation and then now they grow vegetables and things in their gardens very healthy because we didn't have a healthy diet growing up and what about you um i like delivery i'm very excited by the fact you can order anything and what is what was your last delivery order um shopping from waitrose oh no i did a gales this morning. Theodore, my son, who's two, gets really excited by the doorbell because he always thinks people just bring, like, these bags of cakes. And he's like, what is it? So Gales was this morning, and what was in the order today?

God, I feel really ashamed of this. Oh, God, why am I ashamed? Don't be ashamed. Because I like, my son gets to say he's only two but he gets disappointed if i've only bought him one cake so because his favorite is the honey cake but i think he likes the like oh i've not seen this one before have a bite of that and then my husband will eat them all but so two flat whites second coffee of the day how did that travel coffee yes yeah i mean god I didn't know

it's expensive it is yeah I mean I think they're 420 for a flat white before you've put in your own but they're a good flat white plus delivery cost I would say I would say actually

controversially not strong enough the very weak coffee why don't you make your own? well you already have so there's this is the current system we keep going coffee isn't strong enough

we're just such addicts because we're so tired so go to the kitchen you make one with one of those little french press yeah yeah oily ones because that's the strongest we can make it do you mean the the italian one yes yes the italian one yeah so i think that's the strongest that's the that's sort of yeah and then that was too far away so i bought um a sort of like an espresso machine for the bedroom, like a hotel. For the bedroom. So you have a little shot to get you to the kitchen.

So you make your proper coffee. And then sometimes, so the Gales coffee is more like a milkshake to drink. Sarah, you're definitely living on caffeine. I am, yeah. I love the shot to get you out of bed, like just to get you downstairs. Jessie, I hate to say this,

but that jacket is strictly lewisham or peckham market i've never seen anything to say that but i've just noticed how extraordinary it is well have you got the matching margate have you got the matching trousers no but i'm ready for glastonbury so oh sorry one oh sorry god she's a bitch oh there is something about a mum's gaze do you think oh I think so

I now feel like I'm really standing out you're not I've got very neutral I'm just going to take it off no I know I really liked your jacket

it's fine there was definitely not a comment necessary for your jacket Lenny that looks lovely no no

absolute I can't even get it off I've got this new thing It looks like I'm on a tag What is it? What is it? It's called Whoop Oh yeah

And apparently it like Tells you All your Like Your things Your stats Oh yeah And so like

How you slept Yes You should not get one At the moment Sarah But you know how you slept Don't you? No you don't You don't know You don't moment, Sarah. But you know how you slept, don't you? No, you don't. You don't know how much REM sleep you had or deep sleep.

And there's lots of things that affect your sleep. But what's the point of knowing that? Can I tell you? Because you can't alter it. I'll give you an example. If you have one glass of wine, just one, you know, you will have less deep restorative sleep that night. And when you see it tracked on an app, you might make different decisions.

Sugar, the amount of sugar you eat in the daytime might not affect one person might really affect you and then you start going oh i'm having bad night's sleep i'm waking up a lot more because of my diet you might would never sleep if i didn't have one glass of wine i would actually not well actually yes whoop may uh tell you otherwise you might the whoop might say have have a horlicks and a bath and read a book for a bit, don't look at any screens, that wine isn't serving you well. Tell us about your book. Please.

We want to read. Do you always talk about this much? Yeah, sorry. No, it's great. I thought it was a nice I thought it led in quite nicely. She was thrilled with that segue. She thought that was Holly in film. I thought it was nice you nicely. She was thrilled with that segue. She thought that was Holly in film. I thought it was nice you weren't insulting anyone's clothes.

You look gorgeous. Is the book out? It came out in hardback last year and then it's just coming out in paperback. Okay, need to buy it. Yeah. No, because it looks really, really interesting and fun. I've tried to be fun. I've tried to be fun in it.

It always feels like to ask someone to read a book of yours is asking them to spend such a long time with you, really, isn't it? It's hard. I think it's okay. No, I think it's okay, but you want it to be good. Like an entire album or a play or a film, someone's going to spend a lot of time with you. Do you describe yourself as a comedian or an author?

Comedian. Comedian's my proper job. Okay. Yeah. All right, your proper job. Yeah, my proper job, yeah. So when do you find time with two children and your proper job to write books

well comedy is amazing for two reasons one is that it is a short amount of time at night so actually it's quite good with young children because you do have your day yeah and then conversely it is quite good for writing because you have a lot of time around it and once you've got a set or a show you don't spend a lot of time working on your comedy you might do stuff i might i might end up doing a little bit of writing before or after a gig but you do get chunks of time i mean because most comics would work 20 minutes a day and then you have the travel as well which is good for writing i know it's a brilliant job well where did where's most of your comedy just rooms above and below pubs a lot of it and then theaters and you're too well known for that now no the other really beautiful thing

about comedy is it's very leveling like you don't really ever get you get the status to an extent and you tour and things but really when you's new, you're right back to the beginning with brand new stuff, trying it out. Have you watched Hacks? I love Hacks, yeah. Is it quite authentic? I think it's always awkward watching stand-up that's been written by writers because her stand-up in it isn't great.

And stand-up's never great in anything when it's writers, comedy writers writing stand-up. And an actor performing stand-up. So actually they do quite a good job considering it's writers, comedy writers writing stand-up, and an actor performing stand-up. So actually they do quite a good job considering it's not that funny. Well, no, it's not that it's not that funny. No, the show is funny, but then when she does a gag, you're like...

But isn't that the point, though, that she's kind of lost her... But the audience in the room laughs, so they also think it's funny. Yes. Well, there's Mrs. Meisel. Yes, but her stand-up bits are sometimes funny yeah but sometimes they're not always have you ever been in the writer's

room to do any writing for television no no maybe you need to go on third series of acts i don't like working with other people jesse i like being by myself and i think the more you do stand up the more you become this little one-man band who doesn't like working with other people, Jessie. I like being by myself. And I think the more you do stand-up, the more you become this little one-man band who doesn't like collaborating. I find stand-up comedians to be... I mean, it's my idea of hell. Yeah, most people think that, which is great.

And why did you... I'm sure you've been asked this question a lot, but when did you think, I'm going to go and put myself in front of a room full of strangers? It wasn't a conscious decision. It was a meander. It was an accidental thing. I was trying to be an actor.

I'd always wanted to be an actor. I lived with Cariad and her mum, actually, in Barnet. And that's what we wanted to do. We were auditioning for drama school. We were trying to do all of these jobs that were like acting adjacent, like TIE or working in old people's homes, doing plays and all these kind of things. What's TIE? Theatre and Education.

We do plays in schools and stuff like that. That's what I really wanted to do. And then I was doing like a topical sketch show and there was a boy in it who did stand-up comedy. And I'd never been to see it. I thought stand-up was improvised. Like I thought Jack D was making it all up right Billy Connolly just went on stage and went hey a funny thing happened on the way here and then it just grew and I just had no idea you scripted it before yeah and then I went to watch a gig with you know all these lads in raincoats with pads and I was like and they weren't very good and I was like oh

I can do that and then I did stand up for a while as a character so I did it as an acting thing to sort of try and keep my hand in while I was temping and doing proper work what was your character called I can't remember I had some few I had Mrs Nudie who's a detective who was naked underneath her coat and she solved crimes I put all of these clues underneath the audiences. How clever. And they had to sort of read out the clues. Would you ever bring Mrs. Nudie back? As I said it, I was like, where's Mrs. Nudie?

I feel like that's quite Julia 99. It kind of feels like she could be quite, maybe not. Maybe, yeah, I love her. You should bring Mrs. Nudie back to yourself. I should, I should. Maybe. Maybe I should. But what I discovered through the live

performance there's a few things about stand up comedy which are just delicious number one is it's quite democratic in that the audience don't want to see you and don't enjoy you then you don't have a career and if they do you do

it felt so much fairer than the other crafts and arts yeah there were lots and lots of people in other fields we all know who are amazing at what they do and don't make enough money and stand up there's a lot of people who are fine and have a mortgage and you can just you can just work and gig and and the other thing I absolutely loved compared to acting was that you could ring up and get a gig you can or turn up somewhere and go can I play next week and they just the at the point where no one's getting paid everyone's doing five and tens and then what i realized is

the reason i was a terrible actor is i really want five and tens slots so five slots five minutes okay it's five and ten minutes but if you're doing a comedy night and you're doing 10 minutes people aren't there for you particularly which means you have to win people over really quickly. It's like doing a festival. Yeah. I love that. And there's something very grounding about it, because you don't get this, like,

hooray, you're the reason we left the house. It's like you're meeting someone who's shaking their hand, going, hello, I'm Sarah, this is some stuff about me. And then I think it's very good for the ego. The reason I was a terrible actor was that I didn't ever lose myself in the way that incredible actors do. They become. And I always resisted it.

And as soon as I did stand-up, I was like, oh, it's because I want to talk about myself. I didn't want to be Lady Macbeth. Do you still enjoy talking about yourself? I think I find that's where I connect with people. As in, you find bits about your life that are both idiosyncratic and universal and then this beautiful thing happens where people go I understand or I feel the same

and that's what you're looking that's why you make stuff is to make yourself feel better about yourself and hopefully you know other people feel better about themselves and that and stand-up comedy that's what it is that's why people go on and talk about themselves in quite negative ways or the things that go wrong or the bits where the things that happen where you're a fool it's it's all to go like you know oh we should laugh shouldn't we where was your first comedy gig it was in ballam actually really where at the bedford which is has a new act oh yeah it's got... Actually, it's got a very good comedy night now. Yeah. Yeah, I heard.

So they have a big room with Banana Cabaret and then they have a small room where they... Yeah, again, a night where everyone will be doing five minutes and lots of people very, very new to comedy or trying new material. And so audiences who... I was going to say, who want to go to those kind of things, when you see people who are very new

or new acts doing very new material it really is the it's watching a process yeah yeah you know it's it's uh it's watching the sausages being made and people um some people really enjoy it so it's quite a safe safe fish place to do it does smell lovely oh so um you must know anna jones because every vegetarian must know Anna Jones okay so Anna Jones is amazing and she's got a new book out and I just made something from it it's a aubergine like parmigiana

but it's got a little bit of it's got a little bit of chipotle mum thought it was chipotle I would have said chipotle oh maybe it is chipotle I don't know we've now got three different things chipotle, so I'm... Oh, maybe it is Chipotle. I don't know. I thought it was Chipotle. We've now got three different things.

Chipotle, Chipotle and Chipotle. I thought it was pronounced Japalinos. And it's not. So these words are really hard. I thought there was a whole restaurant chain in America called Chipotle. Oh, Chipotle. Is it not called... The restaurant chain's not called Chipotle?

Maybe it is. Oh, it is Chipotle. Oh my God, restaurant chain's not called chipotle? Maybe it is. Oh, it is chipotle. Oh my God, I'm wrong. You're wrong. At least mum's wrong too. Chipotle, not chipotle. So I'm not so... Yeah, you're right.

You were extra sort of... Chipotle. Chipotle. Oh, well I wasn't just far away. You got a combination of the three. Yes, it's a combination of the three. Fair enough. We each had a syllable right. three. It's a combination of the three. We each had a syllable right.

And then this is a salad that actually is vegan. Oh gorgeous, it looks really nice. And this is another recipe, it's tahini with kind of oat milk creme fraiche because I didn't have Greek yoghurt and then it's just got croutons and olives. I'm so sorry, my brain is not working today. Anyway, just

put some in. Thank you. You're welcome. I never so sorry, my brain is not working today. Anyway, just put some in. Thank you. You're welcome. I never eat aubergines. You know what, they're such a bugger to not cook though, aren't they? My instant reaction is like, no, not an aubergine. And then you just cook them so brilliantly. I don't think I actually have. I feel like some of them are a bit uncooked.

I think it's probably better than soggy. I think you probably really nailed it. You're being really sweet, thank you. Can we ask you, so would you call yourself a foodie, Sarah? No. Right. No. So it's a lot of delivery gales, which is pretty delish.

But if we were coming over, what would you order in? Or would you cook? If you were coming over, my husband, who is half Greek, half Australian. Oh, we love Greek. He does the most incredible roast potatoes. Oh. Any time I think our marriage is on the rocks, you know, we've not had enough sleep. He brings out the roast potatoes.

Yeah. She just thinks about them. Yeah. Or he takes pictures every time. Does he do it with lemon? He does it with a few things. But yes, lemons are involved. Do you look at a picture of the potato and you go, yeah, I know why I married him?

Yeah. Yeah. so he cooks it if he were coming over he does a I guess a Greek style roast which is much more potatoes and salads and he would make you a big some kind of hunk of meat that he's cooked for six hours so I wouldn't eat but

he's not veggie and you still love him so yeah was it like my big fat Greek wedding when you got together and was it like were they all asking you to eat lamb well the opposite jesse he'd already had a big greek wedding oh i was his second wife okay and we were planning to get married right but then he didn't apply for his visa in time and there's another comic called sakisa who's amazing and she's um her other job is that she's an immigration lawyer and she said if you leave the country and come back in married that's the quickest way to get so that's what we did we captain ryan was marrying her husband bobby yeah and copenhagen yeah and they knew this loophole that if you got you only

had to be in copenhagen or in or Denmark for 24 hours to get married there. And it's so much quicker to come back in married and apply for a marriage visa than it is to apply for a fiancé visa, which takes six months. She kind of grep and agreed it, but in Copenhagen. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. And it was that weekend or that week where, you know, the Thomas Cook sort of folded. I was in Cuba doing a documentary and then we didn't have a flight back

and I hadn't told anyone my documentary crew were like oh it's actually you know we're gonna the production company gonna put us up in this incredible hotel and so the planes are back and I was like I had to get to Europe I'm getting married and then um we did we did we came back on an airplane which was the Thomas Cook staff but they'd all lost their jobs so they were crying crying like crying and miserable, and just going home, and obviously not working, but sort of tokenly just doing their job. Oh, that's so wicked.

Oh, babe, that's not the most fab kind of... Well, it was live and done. It's not a rehearsed dinner. And it was very, very sad for them, but one of our crew, the sound guy, Sam, this flight was so over packed so he didn't want to sit next to anyone and we told him if he took off his

trousers, because it was unallocated seating that no one would sit next to him but then he took his trousers off Why did he do that? Is that Miss Moody talking? No, it's Miss Moody It just made us laugh so much because we were on a different road to him he was by himself and you know that thing where the doors are about to shut and people get on

and the only seat they had was next to him and he was in his pants. So everyone was crying, but we were laughing. That is so mean. Yeah. So you made it to Copenhagen? Yes. Yeah, yes. And where did you eat?

We had a tie. One of those incredible noodley you know coconut base with sort of lime grass and things in a noodle soup. That's my favourite food. Laksa. I could have known that. I could have done you one.

Oh god that's the best. Is there a place you order that from? I don't think you can get good enough ones. I guess Banana Tree do one. But no I think you can get good enough ones oh i guess banana tree do one but no i think you have to make that at home really um so your husband will be in charge of the meal if we're coming over now do you like drinking do you drink yeah i do like drinking and it's just creeping earlier and earlier into the day now because i've got young children it used to be like it's five o'clock somewhere used to be like, it's five o'clock somewhere

and now it's like, it's three o'clock somewhere. What's your drink of choice? At the moment, my life's a champagne. I'm just drinking champagne by myself out of a mug. I'm with you.

While I'm waiting for bath time. If this bottle is open open you might as well I've realised that yeah if you're sort of by yourself and you don't have a social life obviously I don't drink if I go out to work I can't do stand up

after a glass of wine but at home have some wine in a mug my husband will drink red wine and I like champagne but do you have champagne on your rider so you have like

infinite amounts of no no no. I've been buying it because I don't spend my money on anything. So I've started adding them to the Ocado delivery. What's your champagne of choice? Whatever's got an offer on. Oh, right, yeah. You want some champagne now?

I know, I just feel like I've admitted some real dirty secrets about my life. Do you want champagne now? No, I don't, I don't, I really don't. Do you need a mug now? No. All the drudgery in childcare, I think it's just, it's coming out in odd ways.

So my splurges are food or drink related because we don't go out. Okay, so last supper, you were going off to a desert island. You will be able to sleep there but you will have none of your comforts and your favourite food food so you've got start a main pud and drink of choice right okie dokie

so you're just you're just making yourself the stuff that you like right you don't have to make it it can be all delivery okay um i'd like i'd like a sweet potato salad with cannellini beans that my husband makes. It's really lovely. Yeah, or he could do it with or without feta cheese. Some black calamari olives on there. It's really, and it's really, you know when a salad is really filling? What's the dressing on it? Just oil and?

Yeah, probably balsamic and olive oil. Very classic. My favourite food is soup, which is, I know, a boring thing, but I just love soup. I love a homemade minestrone with all the leftover vegetables. Do you ever make it yourself? Yeah, that would be my favourite thing to cook at home. Have you got any tricks for your minestrone?

Yes, thank you for asking. A couple of Christmases ago, I bought my agent a cooking course and then I decided I wanted to go on to it and it was italian basic cooking so the whole point with the soup is don't chop the small stuff at the beginning you have to mince it really tiny so with the olive oil you need to mince your this is what the italians would do your carrot celery brown onions and garlic you mince them all and then put them in cold oil and heat the oil and then your soup will have like a texture to it it won't be really really runny right okay and that's what you put in as the basis of the soup and then it doesn't matter what else you

put in but you would put mushrooms and tomatoes and things like that but there shouldn't be chunks of those things mince you just get all of the flavor from it and then and making your own stock as you go with all of the cast-off bits, which you always think would be a hassle, but it's not. Do you always have a bit of veg stock that's kind of like... Oh, no, I never keep it. I just make it as I'm making the minestrone. So it's not days old or anything.

Oh, that's a really clever idea. You can still put a stock cube in there, but just all of the outsides of the onions, the garlics, and all the old vegetables in your fridge in a stock taste incredible. I'm going to start doing that. Yeah. Do you put pasta in your minestrone? Sometimes, but lots of beans I'd put in.

I'd put in two cans of cannellini beans and some butter beans. And do you put the rind of parmesan in? No, because parmesan comes from cow stomachs. Oh, of course. Sorry. Okay. But I'm not telling you off for doing it. bind of parmesan in? No. Because parmesan comes from cow's stomach. Oh, of course. Sorry. Okay. I'm not telling you off for doing it. There's parmesan in this.

I'm now freaking out. No, there is. No, you mustn't freak out. It's such a tiny bit. You mustn't freak out. Please don't freak out. Are you sure? I'm not freaked out.

Did we not get the brief? They said you were vegetarian. Yes. They were right to say that. Are they now about what she eats? Did they say no cow's milk fuck no no

oh you're about to no no no no it's not cow's this is me telling you the distinction okay but it's not so parmesan isn't vegetarian

because it's from cow's stomach so it's meat what would be counted as meat I'm telling you that in case you have other guests but that's not I don't have a problem and this is delicious

oh my god cow's stomach so they take the lining rennet to make cheese some some really good cheeses that people like so that's why so it's not a dairy product where the cow stays alive that's that's the distinction so i could basically could have made this bag off no no no no i would no it's a tiny little bit of parmesan on the thing that's going to be there anyway. Okay. Fuck. Do you like parmesan?

It tastes lovely. Oh, God. Okay. I won't be offended if you don't want to eat it. It's salad. I am eating it and it's delicious. And as I say, yeah, it's all been very vegan-ish for me for a couple of years. Pudding.

Are you a big Pudds person? I'd just say some of Carrie had some incredible pavlova that sounds so nice. I feel like you need to try it now. Yeah, I definitely will. I bet you I've had it and she'll be angry with me for forgetting. Yeah, ice cream, chocolate. This is the trouble with having small children. You just eat what they've left on the plate or dropped on the floor.

You just end up going like, no, no, no, no, don't give me one because I'm going to eat what he spits out. I know. The thing with me is I have theirs and then I have my own helping too. Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. So we have pudding for you. Yeah.

It's key lime pie. Lovely. Yeah. Is that going to be okay? Yeah, really great. Condensed milk doesn't have any. No, yeah. It's all going to. Lovely. Yeah, sounds lovely. Yeah, really great. Condensed milk doesn't have any. No, it's all gonna be fine. Okay. Would you like a tea or a coffee? No, I'm all good with water. Thank you. What's a really nostalgic taste from your... B&H. is it the gold pack or the you're just walking down the street and you just get a that is a full-strength cigarette when did you smoke um when i met cariad cariad and i smoked

out of a window for many years um when did you start i I started at the Millennium Dome when I was 18. Millennium Dome? Yeah, I worked at the Millennium Dome. What, like celebrating the Millennium? No, I worked there. It was my first job when I was 18. In the body works? Was it when it was the exhibition?

Yeah, back in the day. I thought it would never close because it was so brilliant. I couldn't believe people said it was only for a year. And I was like, no way. Did you really love it? We went, didn't we?

Did we see the body works? We went to the body works. I don't really remember the other bits of it but everyone was like did you see the show in the middle possibly probably seen one show there once what Prince yeah but um did you so what do you see what did you used to eat when you were at the Millennium Dome Millennium Dome what did I what did I eat did I eat? Did you bring the packed lunch? No, I feel like I definitely had no money. That would have been in the days where I'd have had a mashed potato pot that you poured hot water into from the kettle. Like a...

What a smash. Smash, yeah. I think you've really had slim pickings. I don't think you understand budgeting a pound for your lunch kind of thing. No, they definitely had food in the Millennium Dome. They had a Covent Garden soup company. I like soup, yeah. But no, I would have survived on copper soups and smash, yeah, for many years.

Wow. Millennium Dome. So you'd just have a Benson and Hedges just get you through the day. Smash and then see an edge. When did they stop allowed smoking inside the Millennium Dome so you just have a Benson and Hedges just get you through the day smash it when did they stop allowed smoking inside the Millennium Dome I don't think you're

allowed inside but it's right on the River Thames which is a lovely place to smoke they'll be looking for a nice view go smoke next to the Thames

looking at the river going one day I'm going to be someone like that were you writing comedy then no

but I I was we were doing i was doing character work which was basically meant they gave you a costume you got to improvise with members of the public and so i really i really felt at 18 like oh my god this is going to happen i'm going to do this like oh i'm going to be in these standards one of my lofty ambitions to be in these standards just just to act, but definitely. So the characters in the Millennium Dome, was it kind of like going to London Dungeon? That kind of thing, but I would say probably,

maybe quality-wise, not even as good as London Dungeons. Because we were kids. This is what's incredible about that job, right? Millennium Dome, I didn't know what it was. It had people from all over the world, all suddenly employed in one place. And for the people who were doing acting, we worked hour on, hour off.

And that means that you got paid for half of a shift you didn't work. You just sat around smoking and chatting and reading magazines. It was just brilliant. And then you had these costume cupboards where you just went in and you got given like your roles for the day like you had a road to like okay i'm money man this morning then i'm girl in orchard this afternoon or i'm an alien and then you just decided what it was i had an old lady character who just walked around telling people she was lost

it was just like that you're just making things up you're just being silly it was silly do you want to help yourself? Because you'll know how much you want. Or do you want me to... You do it, yeah. Do you want to... Are you ready for a bit of a slice? Oh, OK.

Are you a generous slicer? No, I don't know. No, that's not generous. No, more. More. Hold on, I think you should start with that. Do you have something in your back pocket? If things aren't going well on one of your stand-ups and you think, I'll have to bring this up.

Boris joke out. Yeah, or some joke that you know is always going to make people what you should have is a toolkit where you get more used to the fact that the different ways that things can go wrong and how to deal with them but i found that the only thing that makes you go really wrong is pretending something that's happening in the room isn't happening so you just have to be with what's going on yeah so for instance let's say it's the nightmare you start your set and it's silent yeah i do think you then have to address the silence in a way where you aren't scared of it yeah because you know you're not any less worthy like how would

you address the silence then so really like i would i honestly i would say look you know the thing with making jokes is it's a lot like sex in that it's more embarrassing to stop than it is to just carry on going, pretending that the other person's enjoying it. And then, and I, because, you know, and then, and I say, but this is just awful. Shall we stop? Shall we do something else? Like, cause that's what you should say when you, you know, if you're in bed with someone, you should rather than both, you know, doing your best moves, you know, this work with the last person, aren't they going but so i use that analogy okay and i pretend we should just like put on a lee evans dvd or something and um and then usually what you would do is try and talk to them you know so like to hecklers have you had a shocker ever? Shockers, mostly, again, the rule should be that a heckle is an open door.

If it's too much about you, because it's so different to having, I've got to sing this song, right? I don't have an audience who've come to hear, they don't know what I'm going to say. It's not like they've bought an album, they're thinking, oh, when are they going to play that one? They don't know what I'm going to say at all. So if someone heckles you it's a door opens you go

through it and so it all has to be about the only problems are if they're too drunk you can't hear them yeah because you think that the worst night will be someone saying you're not funny but it's only a nightmare if you're scared of that it's so much more you really do have to sort of lean into that either they're right and you are normally funny, but I'm not tonight, what's going on? And we investigate that together as a team. Does it become therapy? Yeah, or just more like...

As a team. As a team, we workshop it. It sounds almost like an escape room slash one of those fantasy novels where it's like, are you going to take the blue pill? Choose your own adventure. It is a bit like that. It is a bit like that. It's a live performance and it only happens then.

And the audience, they just have to know that you're not scared like that you're fearless that this is the show the show is whatever happens now and it could be nothing that I thought was going to happen or it could be everything and and usually those things they warm everyone up you get to know each other and then the rest of the show is just it just falls out of you this different rhythm have you felt the need for that like it's adrenaline right it's kind of a junkie like it's yeah this need for this kind of mad sense of fight or flight or whatever do you feel like you need it even more like you need that that nespresso in the morning at the moment since having children or do you think that actually you're like you know

what maybe this could just go quite kind of like everyone I know who's had children all the women I know who do comedy had children got better and I watched them and I thought this is something incredible is happening on but because it made comedy less important it made them better at it because comedy isn't important it is throwaway it's inconsequential don't ever think it and all of them got better and I have a similar version of that where I feel much better on stage at the moment because when it's over it's done and I'm not thinking about it anymore I'm literally thinking about getting home for a feed what we're doing tomorrow what's prepared the drudgery yeah and there's something I'm having my son might take a bottle which is really hard

and um it means that just before I go to a gig at the moment I'm literally doing his last feed hoping he will last until I get home and not just otherwise I get texts at work saying that he's screaming and there's something about literally being in the dark with almost no clothes on no makeup ready feeding my child, there's something so earthy

about it that I go to my gig and I'm not having this big like oh my god I hope it's okay so I just go on and then it's happening and there's something quite healthy about that as a new state, a bit like if you're that I go to my gig and I'm not having this big, like, oh my God, I hope it's okay. So I just go on and then it's happening. And there's something quite healthy about that as a new state. A bit like if you've got jet lag or something, you know, you just have an altered state and you suddenly go, oh wow, I was plugged into something else. I totally get that feeling and I think,

yeah, you're on to the next thing. There's no wasted headspace. There's no headspace to waste, so it isn't't and then also what i feel is incredibly grateful for my job because sometimes i get to go out and do something the other day someone cancelled letters live and so they asked me if i wanted to do it so i literally went i said to them i can't get for the first half because i have to do you know we've got this double bedtime so i got into it they were both horrible i got into the cab at half eight got to the al Albert Hall at nine o'clock, went on at quarter past nine.

I was on with Harriet Walter, reading a letter with her after Benedict Cumberbatch. I had a little flirt with Damien Lewis, went home. And I was like, I wish I could say to my babies, mummy's okay. Mummy had a little mummy night for mummy. I was cooking when you, I mean, I was sorting food out when you were talking about Weirdo. Oh, yeah.

Is it your first novel? Yes. So I wrote two non-fiction books and then this is my first fiction. How did it feel writing a novel? I really, I'd always wanted to write a novel. And I always, when I was 14 and I planned my life, I had that I was going to, in my 40s, you know, start my... Who were you going to be married to as well? Oh, I hadn't planned...

When you were 14. Probably take that, all of them at once. All of them at once, yeah, of course. Because I couldn't choose, and I would never have left Jason out or Howard, just not to be me. You couldn't either, no. No, it wouldn't be me, no, it was all on my phone. Polygamy from 14 yeah um so I knew I wanted to write a novel and I knew I loved loved books and then obviously like you just studied English and um and I think there comes a point because you know that

there's so many brilliant books in the world how how arrogant to add one. And the weight of that. But yeah, I pitched it and then I wrote it as Theo was born. So I wrote it in my very early mum stage. He was waking up in the night and I didn't realise I had mania. So I thought I didn't need to sleep anymore. So I was getting up. I'd been told to... Did you have postnatal kind of... Not psychosis, but...

Oh, mania. I just was so adrenalised. I was really happy. Yeah, right. And I'd been told to pump to make more milk, so I was feeding and then pumping. So I was just like, what's the point of going to bed for 20 minutes?

I'll write a novel. And so the beginning months of it was that that but it did mean I got lots of words out and um I loved writing it it felt like being at primary school again like crayons and proper creativity and you just get to tell yourself a story and I had something that if I'd heard another writer saying it I think it's very pretentious but where the characters decide things for themselves you sort of you think up some things and then they start doing them by them so you just facilitate yeah you're just typing it up you know and they fight against you sometimes you know you've done a plan where this is going to happen and then they're like no i'm doing over there i just watched american fiction last night

oh we've started that we're watching it in stages yeah and he starts the book the bad book and he starts with the title is that how it is? You start with the title and then work around it with my non-fiction I was doing an evening with Faber they do these author events where everyone reads five minutes from their books for the booksellers and I watched a novelist

and I was really making fun of her this is her speech, she's so serious I had an image I had an image I had an image in my head and it was of a girl and she was on the courthouse steps and I thought what is she doing there and my novel was born

but it is a bit like that you're not that person you kind of want to be that person at one point? Not with that voice. That's when I do my author readings. Good evening. But I did have this image of a girl in a pub in Essex where I grew up and where when I had minimum wage jobs,

I was very miserable because I thought I had this stuff to give to the world. And I think what happened to me is I was quite delusional. I had absolutely no one had told me I was good at anything. And I was really sure that I was going to have a certain kind of life. And then through a variety of steps and mutations, a lot of those things have happened. And it's like this odd kind of it makes reality really soft if that happens it feels a bit like you're God like you wished a thing to happen

or that it's not real but what I wanted to write was another a character where she has exactly the same delusions but actually maybe it's not going to happen so I just wanted to explore just that thing of your life not quite reflecting yet

what you want. Who would play the part if it gets made into a television series? What I would love to do is actually to go into a pub in Essex because the whole thing is if you're working in a pub and you think someone's going to come in, especially because so many people are performers, they're waiting for a director to come in and go, it's you, you've got what you're looking for,

so I'd have to cast it like that. Like Willy Wonka got a ticket, but you are invited. Go around the pubs of Brentwood looking for a girl going, hey. You can have lots of mugs

and champagne there. That's it, I'm tax deductible, I believe. I'm casting my TV show, yeah. Sarah Pascoe, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you. It's such a pleasure to meet you and thank you for coming away from, I know, the precious time. I know, it's lovely. It's so nice to do something. I pleasure to meet you and thank you for coming away from i know the precious time so yeah it's lovely it's so nice to do something like you are you they get bigger when i go to yoga i finish yoga when they're bigger my gym top than when i started Sarah Pascoe is very funny. She is very funny.

The whole science behind comedy, it was a revelation. I loved hearing her talk about comedy. She's very clever. She's really bright. She is a bit of an overachiever let's be honest yeah she's just brilliant and i really appreciate that she took the time out she's got a five month old at home who won't take a bottle and she you could feel her clutching her breasts and knowing she's time to go yeah um and um i just fed a vegetarian beef stomach, apparently.

So I'm really embarrassed. And I apologize to Sarah because I actually feel really let down by all the fucking vegetarians we've had that either didn't know this vital information or chose not to share it because I've just given Sarah something that she did not want to eat. And she was so sweet. It was like that thing where your kid hits somebody else in the park. Somebody else's kid in the park. And the mother says, don't worry. It's okay. Don't worry.

It's okay. It was a bit like that. Like I've literally broken your kid's arm and you're going, don't worry. It's fine. She was so sweet to me. And I now feel really guilty. Do you? No one has ever told us about this information.

Not only have I learned a lot about... Comedy. Comedy, I've learned a lot about Brennan in cheese. And I'm now really regretting it. Yeah. Sorry, Sarah Pascoe. I'm really sorry. You were so sweet. And gracious.

And gracious. And gorgeous. She's very serene. That's the second serene comedian. Who's the other serene? Catherine Ryan was very serene. Both very serene, in control, I felt. Or just really tired.

Do you think? They've both got very young children. Maybe she's really tired. How many coffees had she had before she came home? I'm obsessed with the Nespresso before getting down. Like putting a hotel one. In the bedroom to get her downstairs. That's genius.

Sarah Pascoe's book is out in paperback, Weirdo. You can listen to her book club podcast with Cariad Lloyd. You can probably see her in soho or somewhere in london very grand on any friday or saturday um she seems to just should we go to a comedy night yes thanks for listening be with you next week Bye.