Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 4: Matt Lucas

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

He’s the star of the iconic Little Britain, Bridesmaids, Come Fly With Me and soon to be seen on the big screen in Wonka. This week we have the one and only Matt Lucas joining us for dinner. Matt has recently written his first children’s book and with all his wonderful stories from growing up you can see where all the inspiration comes from! We discovered that he was given his first big break by Bob Mortimer, he's notorious for his very own Chicken Soup recipe (which takes him 36 hours!), his first flat deposit was paid for by a Creme Egg advert and the story of the real life 'Marjorie Dawes' from Weight Watchers is fabulous. Matt, next time you come round we promise to have a Viennetta on ice for you, but you’ve gotta bring the soup! Matt’s children’s musical novel ‘The Boy Who Slept Through Christmas’ is out now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I've just had a laryngeal massage. Do you know what that is? No. It sounds a bit like a vaginal massage. Jessie, please, do you have to bring that up? Well, a laryngeal massage is what you do on your throat and your vocal cords and work that because I've been in rehearsals all week. So shout out to Lawrence, who actually is very kind and comes bearing gifts every time. And this time he brought en route some... Rago sauce. Hot sauce. Last time, which would have gone perfectly with your dish today, he brought me, his brother's a brewer, for a Brixton brewery called Orbit Brewery.

He used to work for Brixton Brewers, and he's working for Orbit Brewery. I'm not a big beer person. However, he brought over for one of my massages some beers. A sour, which was a tzatziki-flavoured beer sour. But you drank it, darling. I did. You could have brought it. And it was delicious.

Yeah. What are we having on the menu tonight, then? We're, right, so I watched a TV programme. Yes. Jamie Oliver was in Skopelelos so he did a chicken with satsiki marinated in satsiki because he said the yogurt well the yogurt makes it moisture yeah makes it moist yeah and you do it on a bed of onions and you make onion lemon rice as part of use all the juices lovely then i've done a plum tort which I don't know

what the difference is between a tort and a tart but it's a tort and I'm going to serve it with ice cream or mascarpone or fresh cream it looks like a kind of plum cake looks very nice anyway thank you you seem very relaxed you fasted well it was yom kippur yesterday i pray for you all that's probably yeah probably a good thing thank you appreciate that kept you in mind went to synagogue came home i made chopped herring which was absolutely delicious i had it with my friend jill's kickle what can you explain what a kickle is kickles like a biscuit a very thin biscuit very nice almost with sugar on and and it's very, very thin. And you have it with chopped herring. Well, I have chopped, yeah, you always have it with chopped herring.

It's like the sweetness with the kind of tartness. Yeah. Yes, an acquired taste. And I made, I did get invited back to break my fast, but I'd made fried fish with matzo meal. Here? Yeah. Did you wear a shower cap?

No, I didn didn't i just did it quickly but does the house smell of fish now no have you got any have you got any chopped and fried for me no i didn't do chopped and fried i did fried place done with matzo meal and i'll do it for you this weekend well we we do have a jewish person on today oh yes um we thought maybe maybe he didn't need your prayers probably did um we've got matt lucas on the podcast which is really great apart from the fact that he's an arsenal supporter arsenal bit worried about you know he's very funny very he's also very lovely he was very lovely on the great british bay very kind very kind fantasy football he might tell me

how to do it oh my god imagine if you were a fantasy football thing with Matt Lucas. I'd love to do fantasy football. And he's got a new book that's called The Boy Who Slept Through Christmas. Very interesting Jewish man writing about Christmas. Not that we ever celebrate it hugely, Mum. Yeah, sure. Allergic to raw apples grapes pears and does not eat

fish or cheese see the first thing that mum said she was going to cook was coq au vin what is coq au vin made of mum grapes

grapes wine Matt Lucas is already here and I haven't got any make up on oh quick Jessie oh god Matt Lucas coming up

on table manners don't let the side down. Matt Lucas, thank you for being here. It's all right. It's nice to be here. Thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure. I mean, when I opened the door,

you're very youthful still. Can I tell you, you look much younger. Do I a real pleasure. I mean, when I open the door, you're very youthful still. Can I tell you, you look much younger in true life. Oh, gosh. Are you 14? I'm going to be 50 in March. You're not. What skincare do you use? I don't use any, and I should.

I watched myself back on the one show yesterday, which I hardly ever do. And did you think? No, I was like, like oh you're looking old you you do not look old darling you look gorgeous thank you very much you look very youthful honestly I would have thought you were in your late 30s oh I'll take that I think I know we're going to talk about the book but maybe you should bring some kind of youth like you know face rejuvenating face cream do you know what it is i would buy your cream

processed food and neglect okay there we go okay well on to that tell me about your childhood who was cooking around the dinner table and what were you eating i was eating i was a very um fussy child food wise right and some of that I maintained in adulthood little anxieties and things nervousness around food and I will eat this I won't eat that so is this quite stressful for you to be here and us to be cooking for you and you not having no because I because I well it was stressful once I went on one of those and that might be called saturday kitchen yeah and i and i yeah and they and they made um they didn't make you eat snails or something no it was because i don't eat cheese and i don't eat fish but they made they they didn't get that memo and they made

me some they gave me some haddock and what i did a cheese sauce no it didn't have the cheese sauce on it but it was still haddock and I was live on the television and the man had worked ever so hard and he was very you know a very

good chef so and I was on the TV and I thought you've got to be well behaved so what did you eat it well what happened was because I know

because it doesn't matter you could be the best chef in the world and this could be the best fish in the world you know I went to Nobu and I did try a taste of the blackened cod with miso. Yeah, and?

It's not for me. It's just, I'm just not, I don't enjoy fish. Nobu wouldn't be your place really to go. No, there's lots of other things you can eat there. But I like Nobu. I love it. Yeah, there's lots of other food there. But I was on this Saturday kitchen

and they gave me the haddock. And you know what I did? I went, I did have a taste of it because obviously I was on the television. You need to be polite. I went, oh, this is, try this. Oh, very good. Try that. Good, very good.

And I went round the studio and the people would have gone, Matt Lucas is very good to the crew, you know. Kind. I was palming it off is what I was actually doing. Very clever. No, and the thing is, for haddock, it was very nice. For haddock. But I don't like haddock. I'm not keen on haddock.

No, there you go. So tell me about, you're allergic to some things, too. Yeah, so I have allergies, like anaphylactic allergies. Raw apples, raw peaches, raw pears and raw plums. I've done cooked plums cooked plums is fine no but I'm scared now really

no don't would you eat a cooked plum yeah I've had a good life and I and I have this is quite stressful you should have said

plums was not on the list you can just have ice cream well it's it's yeah I'll be fine don't worry if it's cooked I'm fine

well you better fucking cook that like I wouldn't eat raw apples, but like apple pie. If it was McDonald's apple pie, I'd have two. Oh, really? It's all good. Life is good.

Don't worry. And I'm, you know, David's funnier than me. So as long as he's still around, we're fine. David, why are you? But here's the thing. Growing up, I was very nervous about food. But my mother was the daughter of someone who'd escaped the holocaust and so you know and my mother had grown up um father with rationing when they were very young

and so food was not something that you wasted or spurned and so understandably, you know, my mum was at home cooking and the food was to be eaten if it was served. But I would get anxious and mealtimes were often an argument. And so I would often not eat, but then I'd hide in my room and I'd eat crisps and things. What do you think made you anxious about food? Do you think it was because the whole thing was so i think i think there's this thing which is um as uh like um there are some people called super tasters do you know about this no there are some people who have a very very very heightened um taste buds where they where everything tastes many many many times stronger than it does to most people yeah so i think food often it's a bit like a lot of food is overwhelming for me because i think i'm one of those super

tasters so i i look for slightly uh blander food um and uh also i'm a little bit on the spectrum so sometimes it's just it's just how that manifests why did you come on a food podcast well i think he was made by his lovely manager, and I'm so sorry. I do, I'm sorry. No, I don't mind. We'll make it as bland as possible. Hang on a minute, let's contextualise this. I hosted Great British Bake Off for three years.

Did you eat cake? I ate some of it, and some of it I didn't. I mean, there's some things, doesn't matter how well done they are, they're just not for me. I'm not really a fan of quiche. And so, you know, everyone was making quiche. I'm sure, no doubt, it was the finest quiche in all of Christendom. But there's probably nothing you could do to get me to eat it.

What was it about, was it the texture of quiche? It's cheese, darling! No, forget it. Not all of them have cheese, though. It's the over-egging of the pudding of quiche. Yeah, I see what you mean. But also,

for me, savoury food should be hot. But was the quiche cold? Yes. Oh, that's a bit sad. Everything's cold, I should think. It's cold in the town. So back to your childhood. You grew up in Stanmore.

Yeah. Jewish family. Mm-hmm. Practicing Jews. Practicing. Bar Mitzvah. We will get it right. Bar Mitzvah.

Yeah, yeah, Bar Mitzvah. What was your... No, well, it was... So I was born in 74, so I was bar mitzvahed in 1987. Yeah. What was the like thing that... So we didn't... Vogue.

Well, a lot of the people that I went to school with, haberdashers, did have sort of big bar mitzvahs. Yeah. But my parents were not together. And we, you know, we weren't one of those families with money to spare so so we you know so it was a it was a more um it wasn't one of those big flashy yeah it wasn't it wasn't one of those you know we we had we had so we it was at home. We had the lunch at home. And then the next week, my dad had a party. It was in the community center in Wildstone.

So it was a different, you know, but it was full of love. And, you know, and I was bar mitzvahed and I was quite religious back then. And I became Chatan Torah. I was made Chatan Torah. That's a big deal. The groom of the Torah. I actually carried on going to Hebrew classes after my B'mitzvah. That's how I was quite into it.

But now I am an atheist. Do you still feel Jewish? Oh yeah, completely. It's a secular type of Judaism. But, yeah, I mean, I was with the family for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year last week. And I would have been with my family to break the fast for Yom Kippur,

the Day of Atonement. But I was on the one show. Yeah, I was similarly, I was like going to pop over and break fast with mum and I was in a fitting and a leotard for my tour. So, yeah. So it just goes that way sometimes. So we're in God's bad foot for the year, but you don't believe in God,

so you're going to be all right. And I don't know even if I do, but I don't know, I've got guilt. I don't believe in God, but I do, you know, I was brought up, you know, when I was brought up, Saturday mornings going to synagogue, Sunday mornings going to Hebrew classes at the synagogue, Sunday evenings going to youth club at the synagogue,

Tuesday evenings more religion classes at the synagogue, Thursday evenings Boy Scouts at the synagogue. So it was a big, yeah, it was a huge part of my life. And my mum worked at the synagogue when evenings Boy Scouts at the synagogue so it was a big yeah it was a huge part of huge part of my life and my mum worked at the synagogue when I was very young she worked in the kindergarten there then she became the assistant secretary um my my uh dad and brother used to help out with security my stepmother worked at the day center my cousin worked at the kindergarten there yeah so it was a big it was a big uh thing so what was one of your most what's when you think about jewish food what's the first

thing that you think about that you enjoy and the first thing you think about that you're like well the big treat the big treat was um you know and it's still a big treat is my mum's chicken soup on a friday night um uh with with loxion, which is vermicelli. Oh, you have loxion? Oh, yeah. Do you do matzo balls as well? So matzo balls were really a big deal. A very, very, very special occasion we'd get matzo ball soup.

And now I make my own matzo ball soup. But that was a really big deal. I mean, obviously that was the Passover, Pesach. big deal i mean that was obviously that was the passover pesach so um during during the eight days of of the passover obviously you're not allowed to eat bread that has been you have to eat unleavened bread and so you can't have pasta and you can't have um bread so you eat mozza which is like jacob's cream crackers and um uh and is very dry and makes you try and make it yeah and you try and make it sexy. Yeah.

Matzo braai and you'll do all these different things. But one of the great things you can do with matzo meal is make matzo balls, knedlach. And they are wonderful. And I have almost been on a mission to have as much matzo ball soup where I can in the world. So if I'm anywhere in the world and they have matzo ball soup, I will, it's okay.

I make it at home now. Is your recipe good? Yeah, I spend i will it's okay i make it at home now is your recipe good yeah i spend about it's from from when i start it it's 36 hours till it's ready it's a kerfuffle yeah it's good though and i bought a 32 liter um pot so i'll make like 30 portions and freeze it do your family love it they don't get i mean they've tried it but it's for me no i mean they've tried it my brother won't have it because my brother is kosher so so and i'm not kosher and and it's i actually use kosher chicken but he still won't have it but yeah because the the pot hasn't been blessed has it it hasn't been made kosher yeah um but if i got it blessed or things i don't have a kosher

kitchen it means more for you though doesn't it oh yeah and I put in I mean I put in carrots brown onions spring onions parsnip celery and leek those six yeah those six and then tiny bit of salt tiny bit of

pepper little bit of sugar and actually some Maggi seasoning and some of that Osem powdered stock, which just helps. Yeah, yeah, because it does, you need a bit, don't you? You put Maggi seasonings on.

Or soy sauce if I don't have any Maggi, which does work, yeah. And actually, I'll give you a bit of advice. If you're making roast chicken and you're doing roast potatoes, putting a little bit of that seasoning, sieving it over the potatoes, like you might great idea sieving it over the potatoes before you put them in the oven and it's really good my mouth is watering yeah that's a great idea so you're a bit of a i actually thought of that myself that's wicked love that okay so a negative

from judaism growing up i'm presuming it's going to be something around fish. Kefilter fish. The wet, boiled. Everything of it. I mean, I did used to eat fish when I was very young and I'd have fish balls and they were nice. Actually,

I liked them at the time. Yeah. But, um, yeah, Kefilter fish. It's a bit much. And so,

you know, when you see, you know, like my, my grandmother was, as I say, was a refugee from Berlin and she would eat that sort of sort of herring on rye bread and all that yeah i'm that's not for me yeah i don't i don't yeah

that's not for me um thank you though all right so would you say your mum was a good cook um well this thing happened so we had this kind of old cooker and so it was a bit of a joke the joke was oh mum can't cook like that was the joke and then she got a new cooker and the food was the same but i like have always liked my mum's food right so so um sometimes you go to people's houses and it would be a little more sophisticated. But my mum, she cooked with love, you know, and we had our staple, you know, we had what she always called shepherd's pie,

but was actually cottage pie. Oh, because it was done with beef. Done with beef. Shepherd's pie is with lamb. And cottage pie is with beef. So it was cottage pie. And she did spaghetti bolognese, and she did roast chicken,

and yeah, those kind of were rotated. Those three meals. But I loved them. I was very happy with them, and comforted by them. So you have a brother? I have a brother, an older brother. Did you get on when you were younger?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, you know,? I have a brother, an older brother. Did you get on when you were younger? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, you know, he was my older brother. And our interests were different. You know, I was the sensitive child and liked musicals and things like that. And he was... You sound like quite a lot of Jewish people. Yeah, and he was more typical, I would say. And he was into hip-hop and things like that.

He was, you know, he's as straight as I'm gay, you know. So we didn't always have that much in common growing up, but we did both have a shared love of football, very much. And we have a very harmonious, happy relationship as adult brothers. Do you go to the football're very we go to the football together we're very season tickets so yeah so i've got a pair of season tickets and he comes he sort of has first refusal you kind of you're showing me even though you're quite picky with food yeah have some recipes that i would like to know what would be something that you would cook as a bit of a showstopper for Lenny and I?

Well, I will say it is the... The chicken soup? Yeah. I want a 36-hour chicken soup. 36 hours? I don't cook in 36 hours. Well, what that is, is because I'm probably... You know, it's about six hours for the broth, but I leave it to cool on the stove so that

I can scrape off the... I put it outside. Well, that's a good idea. And then I scrape off the fat. I put it outside. Well, that's a good idea. And then I skim the fat. The thing is, my pot is too big. I wouldn't be able to carry it. No, I put it into a tupperware, put it with a lid outside. But I tell you a tip, a little hack, that I don't skim it like that.

I put a piece of kitchen towel on and all the fat comes off and you're left with... And the juice will drop away and you just take the fat off. You mean you dab it? I dab it. I just put it over the towel. And it absorbs and pulls off.

And it comes off. How do you feel about that, Mark? Well, have you ever been over-eager and then lost the entire sheet of kitchen roll inside the seat? Get a bounty, you'll be all right. the strongest so corrupt well you get the right bounty you don't get a listen chocolate bounty would you know would you would you try that or do you i'm gonna try it now okay yeah let us know how it goes honestly it doesn't taste of of kitchen roll something

smells like it's burning is that okay fine. So you do the chicken soup. Would that be a starter or would that be the main? Well, so yeah, I'd put, you see, the thing is I'd put lots of chicken in. Oh, one of the things I do, and for some people this is sacrilege, is all the vegetables, once they get very stewed, I mean, I quite like them, but I don't keep them in the soup because they've absorbed a lot of the fat. And once you've frozen your soup and then defrosted it.

They get a bit sad. Yeah. Don't you keep the carrots? So I actually don't because what I do is I use these soup socks. Oh, sorry. So I put all the, I have these thin. Muzzle. Yeah, but they're disposable ones.

Okay. And so I put all the vegetables yeah in a soup sock squeeze it and then i put yeah and so it it works for me i don't like the name sock no i get it do you know what i mean i get it how clear is your soup i get it it's clear and the reason it's like tea yeah i'll tell you why it's no i'll tell you why it's clear i know how it's clear and this is the big thing that i do which is you know what most people do with their chicken soup is they you know they bring bring it to the boil and you get all the foam you skim it right and people skim it off well i do a different thing

i do what they do in asia when they're making ramen or yeah you know I always thought it was pho pho yeah you don't go to the Vietnamese nail bars I need to yeah that's what they that's how you know it's pho yeah pho what I do is I actually I do skim it off

but then I decant the chicken into another pot and and I don't use the first 25 minutes of that soup fuck so I don't use it

you're quite wasteful Matt Jesus I mean the veggies are out the first 25 minutes of that soup. Fuck. So I don't use it. You're quite wasteful, Matt. Jesus, Matt. I mean... The veggies are out, the first 25 minutes are out. How many pots of chicken soup would you say you make a year? Well, I do this probably twice a year. Yeah, you see?

Because there's 32... There's probably 30 or 32 helpings. So your freezer is full of chicken soup? Yeah. Have you got some in there for this week? Yeah. When it's a busy week of pandemic? I had some...

What are we two days ago can i ask about you know you talked about your brother and you being very different hip-hop musicals you've basically written a musical with this new i've written a musical yeah it was so the boy who slept through christmas yes was this initially a book so the boy who slept through christmas was a novel i was writing and i thought i would love for this one day to be a stage musical because i've always wanted to write a musical and then as i wrote the novel as i was writing it you know creatively things change right and as i was writing it the i was hearing melodies and themes and characters were coming alive in the book through song in my head.

And then I realized, well, maybe I should write three or four of these songs and just sort of suggest to people what this could be. And then I wrote 20 songs. I actually wrote 21 and cut one because I didn't feel it was right. But I wrote 20 songs and recorded them and so this is a musical novel and what happens is if you go to the boy who slept.com there's lyric videos of all the songs there so people can hear them but actually are you singing all of them I'm singing on some of them but actually what what it is is the book has QR codes all the way through and so as you read the book um you get to a QR code and then point your phone at it or your tablet.

And then it takes you to a lyric video and you can hear the song. Or if you buy the audio book, then the songs just happen. I think you better get the audio book. If you get the e-book and you're online, you have to be online, then you click the link each time and it will take you to the lyric video. Which one do you think works the best, the audiobook? I mean, I think they all work, to be honest with you, in their own way. I don't really have a favourite

because the book is designed to be consumed in all those three ways. So what happens next? Do we make this into a kind of like, you're going to become like the new snowman? Move over. We've got a new kid in town, the boy who slept through Christmas. Or would you like it to go to stage like the new snowman move over we've got a new kid in town the boy slept through christmas or would you like it to go to stage could you do both would you do an

adaptation for television because we'd all like that at christmas yeah so i've got this this sort of i would love for it to go on stage yeah is that a possibility i mean i hope so you're talking about it no not yet because i wanted to finish the book and get it out. So when it was announced that I was doing a musical novel, one big producer did contact us, and I said, well, look, let me just get the book out there, and let's just see what happens. So my aim is to turn it into a stage musical,

and then I have a dream that maybe it could be on television where you do an hour on Christmas Eve, an hour on Christmas Day, and an hour on Boxing Day. And you do it as a three, one hours. How far? As a musical series. As a parent, I appreciate that. That three hours of entertainment

when they've got bored of opening presents. Thank you. That's amazing. Well you. My pleasure. That's amazing. Well, hopefully it is. It will happen. I mean, you've got to listen to the music

and see if you like it. It will happen. I hope so. I mean, I'm really, really fond of it and I've worked really hard on it and so I'd love

to get it on stage and then I've already started thinking about another musical novel. Do you know, oh really? Yeah. You know my friend Orlando Weeks?

Oh yeah. He wrote a thing called The Gritter Man. Right. And maybe you should do something, you're probably already doing this, but at Christmas, I'm being pushy Jewish mother now. Christmas time, he, what's that, Union Chapel? Yeah. And they narrated it and they had the music playing and it was like this, you could start

with that before the musical happens and you could kind of read it and have, you music playing and it was like this, you could start with that before the musical happens and you could kind of read it and have, you're already doing it, aren't you? Well, this Christmas, on the 10th of December, there's two concerts at the Cadogan Hall, which are, well, there's a group called... I love the Cadogan Hall. Yeah, it's lovely.

There's a group called Chorus, which I'm part of, which is, we're a company and we put on shows and we're putting on a big Christmas show. We do it every year. We do a Christmas show every year at Cadogan Hall. And we have lots of stars from Western musicals come and sing popular Christmas songs. But what we're talking about is taking two or three songs from the musical and performing them in this Christmas show. And obviously we have a small orchestra. So that's exciting. Yeah, I'd love to do like a concert tour of The Boy Who Slept Through Christmas one day. I've got loads of plans.

Loads of plans for it. Because it's a rich story. There's loads in it. So the story is about Leo, who's a 10-year-old boy. And he loves Christmas. Leo, who's a 10-year-old boy, and he loves Christmas. And that July,

his mother passes away after a long illness. And he says to his dad, Wow! Look at this! Oh, Mum, that looks really good. I hope it is. It looks delicious, Mum. Congratulations. He says to his dad, I'm not sure I can celebrate Christmas

anymore. And Dad says and dad says no no no what we actually should do is have the best Christmas ever we've got to have the best Christmas ever that's what mum would have wanted so Leo sets about having the best Christmas ever and works really really hard but everything goes wrong and he wishes Christmas away

and then something happens and I'm not going to tell you what it is. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in. Well, I'm glad, but I've written this book for children and for adults. And so in a gentle way, listen, it's a funny book.

It's a comedic book. There's lots of funny songs. It's a funny book, but it is a little bit a book about grief. Were you dealing with grief yourself? I've had, yeah, I've lost people. And so it is a book about grief were you dealing with grief and i've i've had yeah i've lost people and so it is a book about grief and about how we how we live with grief um and you know there are a lot of children who this might be their first christmas without a parent or a

sibling or a friend or a grandparent an uncle a teacher as somebody that there that's been a beacon in their life who isn't there anymore and so this is about how do we navigate this in a time of change and can we still smile and so that's what the book is about but it is funny and there's lots of funny characters funny songs and um it's kind of fantastical in parts and i'm really i've worked really hard on it and i'm'm really proud of it. And I know it's not cool to say that. But I really hope people enjoy it. Tell me which bit of the chicken you like. Well, I'm quite...

I like white meat. But I'm... Yeah, of course. But I don't... You know, I don't have to have white meat. I do like the other... You're the guest. Well, you're very sweet.

Thank you. And I'll know it's cooked as well. Thank you. God, it does look great, doesn't it? I hope it is. So this is... I don't actually need too much skin. I'm doing my best cooked as well. Thank you. God, it does look great, doesn't it? I hope it is. I don't actually need too much skin. I'm doing my best not to have too much skin.

Just be healthy, yeah. Not that the skin isn't delicious, of course. No, no. This is tzatziki chicken. Right. So it's roasted. Roasted. And then you have rice, onions.

This is like a lemon onion rice. Oh, lovely. That is nice. Will you have rice? Yes, thank you. Not too many onions, just one onion. There we go. So these things just come out.

Yeah, but they're not to be celebrated. Thank you very much. Would you like some salad? You can have more rice. I'll have a little bit of salad. Thank you. Now, I've moved the microphone for continuity. I hope that's not an issue. Which is your favourite musical, Matt?

Oh, it's hard. So, one of the first musicals I ever saw was Oliver, and I think, I'm not sure I've yet seen anything that has moved me like that. Although, I love... Was it the Cameron McIntosh one? No, you would have been...

Oh, I actually saw it in the Albury when I was five or six. But the movie, the movie one? Oh, I actually saw it in the Albury when I was five or six. But the movie, the movie is unbelievable. So I love Oliver. I love West Side Story. I love Oklahoma. Little Shop of Horrors. Jessie was in that.

Fantastic. Were you? I was the bin lady. And a lamb goes up at supper. Were you? Yeah. Wow. That's fun, yeah.

Wow. And where did you perform that? oh that was at Sussex Uni which um which was great and I love Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat oh my god me too

I love um Starlight Express which is coming back you like it Lloyd Webber then Lloyd Webber yeah I think it's fantastic Jesus Christ Superstar

I love um uh uh Les Miserables do you like some Sat Siki no I'm alright thank you

Les Miserables um and Guys and Dolls is fantastic Have you been to see the new? Yeah, twice Really? Yeah, and Katie Seacombe is in it and Katie and I have played the Tenardiers often in Les Miserables

She's the daughter of Harry Seacombe and she's in my musical But who does she play? Oh, she plays You know the Salvation Army? Oh, yeah. She's part of that group. She's the sort of inspector.

The bridge theatre. If anybody hasn't seen it, you should go and see it. It is sensational, isn't it? Mum, this looks great. It smells delish. Thank you. When did you realise you were really funny, Matt? Were you always making everyone laugh around the dinner table?

I don't know if I ever thought that. I did stand-up comedy when I was 18. That's so brave. Terrifying. Foolhardy, I would call it. Somebody must have said, you should do this. Or were you just like, I'm going to do this? I just... Where was it?

Well, I did the circuit for four and a half years from when I was 18, and after five weeks I was spotted by Bob Mortimer. Oh, really? Yeah, so I was really, really, really lucky. But I did do four and a half years of slogging around the circuit and gigging, and I'm sure that is what I thought I would be doing for the rest of my career.

When you told your parents you wanted to be a comedian, what did they say? You know the great Bob Monkhouse line? No. I said I wanted to be a comedian. They laughed. They're not laughing now. Very good. Well, my father was very, very excited at the prospect.

And very encouraging. Why? Because I think he, I used to make him laugh. And he was a huge fan of comedy. And he introduced me to people like Jack Benny and Mel Brooks. And, you know, comedians growing up. And my parents loved, you know, Mike Yarwood. They used to go and watch Mike Yarwood being filmed

and Malcolm and Wise. They went to Malcolm and Wise recordings and met them and stuff like that. They were, you know, my dad was a big comedy fan and he introduced me to Monty Python. And I remember my parents showing me 40 Towers when I was a kid. And my dad was excited about that.

You know, my mum was a kid and my dad was excited about that you know um my mum was a little anxious completely understandably because um i wanted to be an actor and but i'd gone to this private school which was very academically minded called haberdashers and um you know uh you know i wanted to be an actor, and I had been an actor. I was in the National Youth Music Theatre when I was 13. I was in a West End play when I was 14, went to open auditions. Which one? It was called The 15 Streets.

It was a Catherine Cookson novel. Right. And when I was 16, I got into the National Youth Theatre, which is where I met David Walliams. That was in 1990. So, you know, I is where I met David Walliams. That was in 1990. So, you know, I was going to be an actor because I was already doing that. And that's what I wanted to do.

And that's what I was going to do. And, you know, and I went to university to do theatre, film and television, Bristol University. And so that was the trajectory. And my mum was understandably anxious when one year before the end of university, I said, actually, I'm going to go off and do this full time. You know, because the deal I had with my the deal I had with my parents, which I think is very reasonable, which is if you want to be an actor, that's fine. But you have to be prepared that you won't be acting most of the time. but you have to be prepared that you won't be acting most of the time and therefore you know you need to get a degree so you can go and teach english and drama in schools okay so if you can

teach acting when you're not acting yourself you will have a livelihood you know and i didn't come from a family with limitless funds you know i i we didn't i couldn't be bankrolled like that. You know, my parents, my mum had three jobs, you know. What did your dad do? My dad, when I was very young, had an aluminium, a company that traded in aluminium. But he, you know, he died quite young, but he was a driver. You know, he would drive, he had a nice car and would drive important or famous people around you know and and he would always come home and go oh you know i drove this celebrity today and that celebrity today and i get very excited when he'd say you know he drove um paul daniels once and said he was lovely and he arrived early and paul

and daniels and debbie mcgee invited him in and they gave him breakfast, which I thought was very nice. Oh, that's really nice. Yeah, occasionally he'd say, oh, I drove this person, they weren't very nice. Your mum did three jobs? Yeah, so understandably, my family were... My mum was anxious about the idea... There's that word, anxious, again.

The idea of me leaving university without a degree to go and try and make a living in one of the most precarious professions in the world um this was coupled with um two other factors one was you know my grandmother and i understood this when i did um who do you think you are and i went to where my grandmother had studied my grandmother wanted to be a doctor and um she was studying first to be a nurse and then jews were not allowed to study in germany and so she was prevented from completing her studies um and i understand now why she was so opposed to me not getting my degree when i think about how she herself wanted that's all she really wanted had Had wanted for herself, was to be able to complete...

You know, and so she'd ended up being a nurse, but, you know, she should have been a doctor. She was fiercely intelligent. Because she was very clever. Yeah, and would have been a great doctor. So there was that. Plus, my mum had come to see me on stage a couple of times, and I had died on my arse when she came.

And I was doing a weird act. I mean, it was performance art, really, more than stand-up. And I was 18. And she came to see me do gigs where I played to silence. She came to see me do gigs where I got booed off. So when I told her, oh, I'm going to do this. I mean, I think her being mortified is a very natural response. And she really only, you know, even when i was on like shooting stars

and we if we were out and we were walking past a restaurant or somewhere that was advertising a vacancy that had a job in the window she was like maybe you should go and do that and i'll be like mum i'm on i'm on telly i'm on telly she's like yeah but you don't know with you jesse right and when i got adverts when i when i started doing adverts for Cadbury's Cream Egg and they offered me a two-year deal to be the Cadbury's Cream Egg man, and I got enough money to put a down payment on a flat, that was the moment my mum said,

OK, I think you might be OK here. Because I was 25 and I was able to put a deposit down on a flat, which is in London, which not everybody could do. But that wasn't because of shooting stars directly or because of stand-up it was because I was doing some commercials so you met Bob Mortimer and then shooting stars happened what quite quickly after I met Bob Mortimer in no I started doing stand-up in October 92 and I met Bob Mortimer in November 92 and then um he brought along producers to see me so I ended up doing stand-up on some tv shows and he was my kind of mentor my champion and everybody needs one you know and I was very lucky that he was mine and a couple of other people were very encouraging Jerry Sadowitz was

very encouraging he was a very big deal when I was starting out and he was a great he was very a real champion of mine as well. So I was very lucky. My act was really strange. Like, tell us about it. So I played this character called Sir Bernard Chumley, who I did in Little Britain. It's a much more toned down performance in Little Britain. It was wild.

It was loud. It was filthy. It was semi-improvised. I was running around the stage screaming at people it was it was performance art really um did people enjoy that character and is that why I mean people loved it or hated it I mean it was complete marmite so some gigs I'd be booed off other gigs I would be opening as Sir Bernard and then they'd make me encore which you really shouldn't encore unless you're closing because it makes it hard for the next act to follow,

which I didn't know that. And I didn't know that like you don't do that. And then I did, I think I opened a show and got an encore, and then the act after me got booed off. And then I thought, and I was very apologetic. Somebody said that happened because- Of you. Of you. And I apologize, I never ever. Of you. And I apologise.

I never ever did that again. And there was one time where they were just going encore, encore, encore after I'd opened a show and I came back on stage and I did literally told one joke and then went off again. Is that allowed? Yeah, because I think you've got to acknowledge

what's going on in the room and that was what was going on in the room. And if I hadn't done, the audience just wouldn't stop. The compere was on but they just decided they wanted me back. So I went back on, got the applause, did one gag and then got off again. I think that's fair enough.

Did your mum, when Little Britain came out, was she like, you need to stop misbehaving? Or was she like, this is brilliant? Or did it kind of rub her up the wrong way? No, I don't think, I think all of those things in that there were some sketches she absolutely loved. There were some sketches that she didn't like. Which one did she love?

What did she like? I think she liked Fat Fighters. The Weight Watchers one? Yeah, because we had been... I mean, look, those sketches are the creation of me and David. So I can't say, oh, I came up with it or anything. Marjorie Dawes started on Shooting Stars actually and in answer to your other question it was about two and a half years

after Bob saw me that we did Shooting Stars so he'd been mentoring yes yeah but I've been in I've been in another show of theirs before two years after we met I was in The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer as their kind of right-hand man so um just to pick up from that but um uh you know when i was 13 i got very big uh weight wise and um the doctor said you need to go to weight washers and so me and my mum went to my mum wasn't big at all but we went to weight watchers and we did the weight watchers diet and i lost a lot of weight which i never i didn't keep off but I lost a lot of weight. And we had this very, very lovely instructor, unlike Marjorie, who's not lovely at all. But we had a very nice instructor called Barbara.

She was great. I really liked her, very supportive. But she used to say, got any new members? Any new members? And it just stuck with me. So, you know, I used to, David Walliams was also a chubby kid and so you know when I was telling him about Weight Watchers you know it felt like a good setting we both decided to where Marjorie should go so I think my mum really liked those sketches

because there was you know she knew that environment um I think she didn't like you know the sketches where um judy and maggie you know the projectile vomiting or she said she didn't like bitty but when we first showed bitty when an adult who's still breastfed when we first showed bitty to the studio audience because everything was either filmed in front of an audience or shown to an audience that's how we knew whether it was funny or not. And when we first showed Bitty to the audience, I hid and watched my mum because I knew she was going to complain about it. And I watched her and she laughed her head off.

And so after the show, she said, I'm not sure about that one at all. And I said, well, you were sure about it when we showed it because I watched you and you were laughing. I made a point of coming out into the audience, just sneaking and you were laughing a lot. Do you think, I was a chubby kid and do you think being funny kind of was a form of survival as well? Yeah, I mean, I was overweight, no hair. I lost my hair when I was six years old. Struggling with my sexuality. Was not athletic.

I was, you know, I had very bad asthma and eczema as a kid. And, you know, my parents are divorced. My dad was in prison. There was, you know, it was like, it was enough already. Tough game. As we say, enough already. Enough already. So, yeah, I think I channeled that into, you know, being in my bedroom, listening to the soundtracks of musicals, imagining myself on stage.

I used to watch Saturday Live and Friday Night Live on Channel 4 and watch the Jasper Carrot Show with Punt and Dennis and people like that. punt and dennis and people like that and i used to um plug my tape recorder into the the the video and record all the comedy routines to listen to and then i used to go to school and i didn't have that many friends at school and i would go to school and um i had these a sony walkman you know and i had the or a knockoff and i had earphones but one of the earphones didn't work you know like it was only worked on one side but i in the earphones didn't work you know like it was only worked on one side but I in the playground I would be I mean sometimes I would be playing football with other people or I'd be in the math society on the computers but or a stamp I was a big stamp collector because my grandfather was a philatelist and um but often I would be sat

listening to recordings from Jasper Carrot, Punt and Dennis, Saturday Night Live. And performing them in the playground. Saturday Live. No, not performing them. No, just listening to them. Memorising them, yeah. And then really, you know, that was in the late 80s. And by the early 90s, I was on the circuit with some of those comedians. That's crazy.

Yeah, so I remember gigging with Nick Ravel. And I knew every word of a Nick Ravel routine because I'd listened to it umpteen times. Can I ask you what your last supper is? Start and main, pud, drink of choice. Oh, I see. Oh gosh. Well, I'll tell you what. Is it going to be processed food

or? No, so for the starter I'll do the matzo ball soup. You're making your own last supper. Am I making it myself? No, you don't have to. But are you going to choose your one or your mother's? Katz's Deli. Oh, what?

It's awful. It's good matzo ball soup there. No, because the matzo ball's massive. I like the girth of the matzo ball, but the soup is not good enough. I had a good day. I thought it was just really salty. I had a good soup there. Katz's Deli.

Where's better chicken soup? Probably your house and mum. Yes, but where you would pay for it. I think it's really hard. It's hard to get good chicken soup. It's really hard. Yeah. I mean, very few places serve matzo ball soup

in this country as well, let alone in, I mean, in New York, in LA, you find something. You know what? I really like the Whole Foods chicken soup. So sue me. No, Jessie! I don't care. What has it got in it? It's got like brown rice in it, and it's like mum's chicken soup, and it tastes really nice. Okay, I'll give it a try. Okay, fine. So

you're doing matzo ball soup and Kat's is deli. I like that. Okay, fine. I'll get the breast of okay fine so are you doing Matt's ball soup and Kat's his deli I like that okay fine I'll get the breast of chicken princess I won't have the asparagus on it darling will you have a bit yes please that they serve in

Oslo Court where's Oslo Court what what are you talking about hold on is this this place in North London in St John's Wood.

That's like... In a block of flats. When I was on... Has Jay Rayner talked about this? Yes, without a doubt. When I was on... Wow, look at that. When I was on Desert Island Discs...

Is that plum cooked, Mum? Thank you. Yeah. I might go... Yeah, well, I'll be good. I'll be good. Say, Jessie. Have you got your pen?

Yes, in my bag. Okay, fine. She's not... Enjoy. I will. I'll be good. Say it, Jesse. Have you got your pen? Yes, in my bag. Okay, okay, fine. She's not going to enjoy. I will. Ooh, ice cream. When I was on Desert Island Discs, and can I, just as a sort of, it's a slight going off piece here,

but they asked me before they asked Walliams. When I was on Desert Island Discs. That will stay in, don't worry. I think it's worth saying. When I was on Desert Island Discs, for my stay in, don't worry. I think it's worth saying. When I was on Desert Island Discs, for my luxury item, I took that restaurant. I love that.

Yeah. So I'll have their breast of chicken princess because it comes with, it's silver service and it comes with like just loads of different vegetables.

You can have the peas. Then they'll go, sometimes they just come up and they give you a luck cup. Jess, do you want some? Roast potatoes, chips and sauteed potatoes and mashed potatoes.

They put it all on your plate. And you're thrilled? Well, that's, I'm slightly over-carbed at that point. But I would go for their breast of chicken princess. Also, the service is terrific there.

And I don't know if you've been in there. I've never been. It's all Jews and criminals. And there's an element of overlap. Have you ever been to Cantor's in LA? Yes, of course. I lived in LA for seven years.

They're so rude to you. They are elderly people. I was there two weeks ago and they were not rude at all. They were very nice. What was your order? I had chicken soup. Can I see that? Yeah.

So, okay, so Oslo Court. Yeah. I'm going to have to go there. You're going to have to go there. Okay, so that's your main what's your pud? Viennetta oh my god

well we better have some ice cream then it's a good day when Viennetta's in the freezer I had a moment I bought this house in LA and it was really nice it was like a big old thing the big old spread yeah

and I had this moment I arrived in West Hollywood and I walked around the supermarket and I went to the freezer and they've got every type of ice cream you can imagine. Their Haagen-Dazs is very different to what we get here. Although Haagen-Dazs chocolate ice cream is better here than in America because it's got those tiny little nibs of chocolate inside there.

But their one doesn't. But I looked. No Viennetta. And I suddenly thought I had a slight existential panic, which is have I moved to the wrong country? Is it too late to sell my house? Can I live in a country

without Viennetta? Do you always have it in your freezer? No, I should do, though. I quite like... They do a butterscotch one, which tastes like Wool's Romantica,

which I used to love, which they don't do anymore. I think they do it in Ireland, but not here. Wool's, which tastes like Walls Romantica, which I used to love, which they don't do anymore. I think they do it in Ireland, but not here. Walls Romantica. Oh, Romantica was lovely. It was like a viennetta, but there was some... It was a cake. And it was butterscotch.

You're too young. No, but what other desserts do I like? Oh, all right. My stepfather, Ralph, does a very good loxian pudding. Oh, we've made loxian pudding. But is it with apple? Because you don't... No, he does it

with sultanas. Oh, yeah. He does it without apple for me, yeah. Well, he did it without apple when I came. And you loved it.

Yeah, l'Occitane pudding is great. So do people know that's vermicelli with icing sugar and an egg and sultana and then you boil...

Cinnamon, maybe? Cinnamon, vanilla and then you put it in the oven and kind of bake it. And then you boil the... Cinnamon maybe? Cinnamon. Cinnamon, vanilla. And then you put it in the oven and kind of bake it. Darling, do you want some ice cream? I'd love a little bit. Thank you very much. I'm sorry we didn't get the Viennetta in. I didn't ask.

No, you didn't. Viennetta I can buy. What is this like? This is New York Times. It's really yummy. I don't doubt. I'm sure it's delicious. And I think the plums are cooked.

Should I say V&S? I mean, there must be. No, I love that. I was going to go with loxian pudding. No, I love that. You can have both. And your drink of choice? Pepsi Max lime.

Although I have spoken about this before. Really? Yeah. What? Yeah. Why? I don't know why. It's got...

It's alchemy, that's why. I've got my napkin. Hello cat. Are you okay with cats? Yeah. I mean I'm allergic to them, I just don't have to... Oh my god. No, but I just don't stroke them. Okay. That was delicious.

Was it? I really enjoyed it. I don't know what... I'm going to scrape... I'm supposed to be in the leotard in about a week, but I'm just going to scrape a bit more. Scrape a bit more. Yeah. That's really nice. I'm enjoying it, Mum. Do you like karaoke?

Yeah, I like karaoke. Which song would you sing? Cobra Cabana. Oh! Oh, Barry. You'd be really good at that. I mean, it's fun, isn't it? Because everyone joins in with that one as well. That's a really good one. I think that's generous. I did Islands in the Stream as well. Who with?

David? Someone at university. Did it go down well? Yeah, it did. Oh, I went to a bar once about 20 years ago. It's quite a bit cheating. That's kind of you. About 20 years ago,

I went to a real spit and sawdust bar in Florida. And, you know, it was all like straight dudes and they were singing country and western songs. And I sang Stars from Les Miserables. And I smashed it. I will say I smashed it. And people coming up, you know, people were like, what are you doing?

They were all right about it, actually. It's one of the few musicals I'm not keen on. You don't like Les Mis? No. Have you not seen it twice? Really? I've never seen it. I've one of the few musicals I'm not keen on. You don't like Les Mis? No. Have you not... Seen it twice. Really? I've never seen it.

I've only seen the film. A bit miserable. No, well... Yeah. Do you like... Have you ever seen Pippin? No. No, people don't know it.

It's a wonderful film. No, I know it. I know of it. I tell you, one of the best musicals that I ever saw was in New York called The Wiz. Yeah, they're doing it again. They're not! They are. Oh my God. Announce today. Announce today. You gotta keep on, keep on down the road.

Maybe I'll get my kids to watch that this weekend. It's just the best. It was such an amazing, I saw it in New York, but I mean when, in 1976. Did you? Yeah. Wow. Because the film is Diana Ross and Michael Jackson. Yeah, but it wasn't as good as the musical.

Yeah, I've heard it's best on stage. The musical is amazing. Did you ever see Dreamgirls? I saw it. I've got a funny story about that. I saw it on the film, which I thought was very good. My mum and stepdad went to see it. And they didn't, it wasn't for them.

Really? My mum shouted out. went to see it. And they didn't, it wasn't for them. Really? My mum shouted out. She said, go on, girl. They didn't like it. I said to my mum, what did you think of Dreamgirls? She went, ugh. Ugh. Why?

I was like, that's great. Ugh. What? She does this song. She does this song. And I'm telling you, I'm not going, I'm not going, I'm not going. I said, all right, we get it.

Leave us alone. Oh, I loved it. I cried when I heard that song. Oh my God. She's so naughty. That's amazing. The film for that is very good as well, I think. I've never seen it on stage, but I like the Dreamgirls movie.

Apart from Oslo Court, are there any other food places that you, you know, may take us out to? Darling, not London-centric, please. No, I don't know. He might have performed in Edinburgh. I didn't say London. Or Newcastle. Oh, right. BBC. Tryingle. All right, OK. Yeah?

BBC. Trying to be a bit diverse there. Hmm. But you can also do London. I went to a place on the Isle of Man once. No, I didn't. You're just doing it to make us laugh. No, I did.

No, I did go to a place on the Isle of Man. And they served... I mean, I've never seen this in a restaurant, but actually I think it is a thing. It was... I had bangers and mash, but they served it inside a giant Yorkshire pudding. Oh, how nice. Did you like that?

Couldn't finish it, but it was very nice. How delicious. Yeah, that was on the Isle of Man. I don't know if they're still there. That was nice. Outside London. No, I think that was very good. Very good. Are you going on a book tour? Yes.

So where will you be going? I'm going to do some book festivals. I think I'm doing Hay, Cheltenham. Wow. Quite a few book festivals. I'm going to lots of schools to meet kids and tell them about my book and teach them some of the songs and matt it's been such a pleasure to meet you you are so lovely and interesting and talented and the boy that slept through christmas sounds so exciting and beautiful

and i can't wait for my children to enjoy it and i can't wait to see it on the stage and see it as a three-part thriller musical. I can't wait for it. Thank you. You can buy the book, obviously, the audio book, the e-book, whatever. But if you're just curious to hear the music, go to theboywhoslept.com. Theboywhoslept.com. And you can hear all the songs there. Great.

I can't wait. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good luck with wait. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good luck with everything. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for eating the chicken.

Thank you for cooking for me. How lovely. Thank you for eating a plum tart even though you haven't EpiPem ready. I did.

Yeah, but it's cooked. So when it's cooked, it's fine. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Such a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Such a pleasure. Thank you. Mum, that food was so delicious. Was it? Did you like the recipe, good old Jamie Oliver? That was a bit like Ottolenghi, what he made for us. What's it called? A friand? Friand. I don't know, but it's New York Times. Delicious.

I don't know what makes it a fucking torte, though. It's a cake, Mum. I don't know, but it looks quite nice, doesn't it? With the plums stuck in. You make the batter and then you push the plums in. Mum, it was all really delicious. Jamie Oliver's, that's eeky chicken. Yeah, from Skopelos.

He cooked it on the island of Skopelos first. I really like that. And thank you, Ginger Pig, for the biggest chicken I've ever seen. I've never seen such a bird. I know. Steve? It was a big bird. Big bird.

Speaking as a big bird myself, that was a big bird. That was really delicious. Thank you to Matt Lucas for coming over. His book, The Boy That Slept Through Christmas, sounds gorgeous sounds gorgeous so wonderful and he seems so proud of it yeah and i just love chatting to him he was great thank you to everyone who is listening and who continues to listen to the podcast and if you do have messages for us send them in at hello at table manners podcast.com um and we'll see you next week table manners podcast.com um and we'll see you next week