Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 9: Kadiff Kirwan

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Our latest guest has been waiting to meet ‘Dame Lennie’ for a while, and this week his dream finally came true! The absolutely gorgeous and talented actor, Kadiff Kirwan, joined us for a showstopping - if I say so myself - Dutch Baby round at mine. His stories were a total delight; born on the Caribbean island of Montserrat, he told us all about delicious meals his mum cooked him while growing up, how he was once in a Christian acapella boyband, that being naughty at school helped him find his love of acting, and he also does a good job of trying to convince us to try a Caribbean Souse… Kadiff, the trip to Montserrat must happen and can we join please? Get ready to fall in love!! Watch the wonderful Kadiff in the latest series of Slow Horses with Gary Oldman on Apple TV. It’s fantastic x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and it's a bustling kitchen behind me. Sam is making the noisiest coffee. Do you want to be a co-host or something? No, no, I want to get my barista job while I'm a student now. It's the sort of thing that students do. Guys, Table Manners, my husband will be a qualified osteopath in three and a half years. And Sam is on coffee duty today because I have some delicious coffee straight from Down Under. Now, I'm going to start today's episode by giving the biggest shout out to all the Table Manners fans in Australia. They are plentiful. Oh, there are a lot. Mum, I had at my gig at summer camp,

people, you know when they ask DJs for a tune, they said, where's Lenny? Well, obviously. They love you. They love the podcast, and I've never eaten so well. As in Australia. Oh, my goodness. I like those earrings.

Do you? They look like little sputniks. What's a sputnik? Like things that go in the sky. Oh, right. Anyway, it was amazing. I went to some brilliant places. And we have a guest today and it's brunch.

And Australia is obviously famous for its brunch. So I've been inspired. But shout out to St. Ali, where we went on our first breakfast in Melbourne. And also I have to give a shout out to Ange now Ange was put in touch with me on on whatsapp through my good friends who live down the road Jess and Ben and they said Ange is like the time out of Melbourne she'll sort you out so me and Ange became pen pals like whatsapp buddies never met each other she gave me all the recommendations so thank you Ange and she's a massive fan of the podcast but I didn't know this until she was three martinis in at Gimlet and

decided to spout quotes from the podcast she says sometimes she will listen to the Alan Carr episode just to cheer up her day she has repeatedly listened to it so then I was like oh I'm with a psychopath she was a super fan had the book loves it so this is a big shout out to you and my new food friend who we may need to have a restraining order um if you ever come to London and you get close to Lenny um so on the menu today we have a Dutch baby which I think last time you did one was for Billy Porter maybe yeah it's and then he told me he was allergic to everything that i put in the dutch baby do you remember oh he didn't eat sugar he didn't eat flour oh well we're doing a savory dutch baby is that the new york times the new york times one

it's um goat's cheese and dill i've never made it before so it could turn out terribly i've done some backups this was inspired by a cafe that I went to in Melbourne called Florian. And actually I put up a picture of this pea and asparagus toast and they actually messaged back saying that they love the podcast. So this is a big love and shout out to you guys.

I'm semi, it's the noisiest coffee machine ever. It's just telling you, what an attention seeker, that Sage. So I had this toast. it was pea and asparagus it was so vibrant mine isn't as vibrant and then i'm um putting some anchovies on top so that's like a pea asparagus anchovy toast you're doing a toast as well as the dutch yes options mother wow um and then they do it with a jammy egg but because we're having the dutch baby i'm not going to do that okay and then i've made a caraway seed cake why i don't know actually showing off well actually i cocked the recipe up and forgot to put i was like god this is got so

much energy when you've just got back i feel like i've got a new lease of life after going down under i actually think we should move there. Why? I think we should definitely do a series there. Why? Because the food is great. I've had a really good time and I feel like... It's okay, it was cold here.

Going to Madonna tonight. I took your daughter in the freezing cold, the horse riding. Drive-thru McDonald's, she was thrilled. She loves that. Anyway, so that's the menu. Who we've got on this morning is my friend, Kadif Kirwan. He's so handsome. Very handsome.

Wow. He likes to call you Dame Lenny. That's fine. I've been waiting for this meeting. He looks... I've seen him. I looked him up because I've not watched Slow Horses, which he's in.

Well, it's the third season that's out and he has quite a big part in this season. I mean, he's been in the last but he always plays a policeman yes he's always quite a sexy policeman yeah a very handsome policeman he was also in chewing gum michaela cole's first program which i adored he was also in my policeman that film um with emma corrin and harry styles and he was also in i may destroy you So he's been in so many things. Every actor adores Kadif and he's always at every opening of theatre or musical.

So we always talk about what we're going to see. So yeah, I'm sure we're going to talk about theatre. We're going to be talking about the new season of Slow Horses, which is on Apple TV. We'll be talking about food. He lives in South East London and is probably nearly here.

Kadif Cohen coming up on Table Manners. Kadif is in the kitchen. You've met Lenny. I've met the Queen. I've met the Queen. He's looking magnificent.

Beautiful. Always good. Always smells great. Thank you. Now, I have to say that Kadif and I are quite in the early stages of our friendship romance. Oh, yeah. Blossoming. Yeah.

We're coming up to a year of knowing each other. However, I've been watching you since Chewing Gum. Oh, my gosh. But the first time I ever saw you, you were on a plane. We were going to Morocco. Quite glamorous. Yes. It's kind of been downhill since then, to be honest. And you looked so cool. And I was like,

who the hell is that? And then we ended up spending a whole weekend together and having so much fun. Yes, we did. And then the rest is history. But you've been busy. Yeah. Busy life, busy year, busy time, really exciting time. Let's talk about Slow Horses. Oh my gosh. Best job I've ever had. Lenny, you're going to love it. You haven't watched it.

See, I only started watching it because my new best friend's in it. But you're only in the second season. I joined from season two. So I've just gone straight there. No, no. You're going to want to go from season one. No, season one's good.

It's brilliant. It's sort of like, so elevator pitch. Gary Oldman is the boss of the Slow Horses, the rogues, the sort of, the agents who, for one reason or another,

have been ousted from the top jobs. So you've got a unit of basically down and out, sort of the cretins, the sort of really shit spies. Oh, they're spies? Yeah. Oh, OK. And they're not that practical, and you've just got one unit of people who are just rubbish, and they get ostracised to this unit called Slow House,

and it's just what they get up to. They sort of get given the really crappy tasks and it's about, it's sort of situational comedy slash drama slash action film slash. But like, you know, it's like you used to love spooks mum. Yeah. And it's like got more humour than spooks.

So it's kind of, it's, it's brilliant. And there's always kind of this big climax to the end. And, and you, and it's quite a big one for you in kind of this big climax to the end and yeah and you and it's quite a big one for you in season three right three is massive yeah i'm so excited to be part of it i joined from season two so my character is called marcus longridge he is in the

unit because he's a gambling addict so when he's basically on the job like sniping people he's like on the roulettes on his phone you know like many of us did you do any method for that did you do a bet loads of betting gary oldman who plays our boss he's from new cross oh yeah he's from down the road you must invite him over i don't think he lives there anymore though he's a big foodie as well actually on set he'd be talking about some wonderful meals that he's had he travels the world quite a bit and he he's a big foodie so i want to be him when I'm a little bit older So where is it filmed mostly? We film in London though some of the seasons have little extras

so the start of season 3 was filmed in Istanbul Were you there? I was not there Oh that's so annoying I was fuming but it's amazing because each episode it's like a feature film Apple are incredible at sort of pumping

their talent and their money into the shows and they really look after us and it's the most incredible show to be a part of is it out very soon is it out now

out now so episode 3 is out currently and weekly on Apple TV it's weekly so

this is coming out next week so episode 4 will be out today nice on Apple and please check it out it's the reason to get Apple TV I'd say and you get to see Gary Oldman be an absolute legend

he is so good I just want to know because his part is like he farts in a bit Miriam but like what's it, Kristen Scott Thomas who's so good in it but he's just disgusting, He's got greasy hair. Did he smell bad on set?

Gary Oldman smells like money and success. He might look as the character, like a down and out, like a tramp, but he smells divine. He honestly does. Do you know what he uses? No, I don't. I'm going to ask him actually what he uses but it's a beautiful smell.

Because I've always thought, does he like method that as well? Smells of money and success. That is a great expression. Eau de cologne, money, success. Now let's get back to you and growing up where did you...

So I was born in the Caribbean on a lovely little island called Montserrat. It's a tiny... The French one? It was French, it's British now. Well, they kept fighting over it because of colonialism. So I was born there, I was there until I was eight, but I moved to the UK because there was a volcano on the island, an active volcano.

Yeah, I remember. And so it's a tiny island, 35 square miles, population 14,000 people. Who was around the dinner table? Dinner table, my siblings. So I'm one of five. But in Montserrat, it was myself, two of my older brothers, my parents, my mum and my dad. And my mum, honestly, the world's best cook.

She was just everything. In preparation for this, I was so nervous because my mum recently passed away last year. But I was also, there was so much joy inside of me because I got to speak about food. And for me, food is my mother. Let's talk about her. Love language was her acts of service and cooking. So what's her name?

Matilda Kirwan. That was her name. She was one of 14 children. Yeah, my nan was a goer, innit? She was like, she was busy. And she, yeah, she was yeah my nan was a goer in it she was like she was busy and she yeah she was my mum was just amazing the kitchen was would always smell of like bakes like fried dumplings and salt fish and ackee or things like curried mutton or oxtail or it was just a classic Caribbean Caribbean. Classic Caribbean. The odd sort of French thing thrown in there,

she was Caribbean French, and food was just the centre of all of our lives, especially in the Caribbean, with all those exotic fruits and stuff. It was amazing. Have you been to the Caribbean? I have. But also, my sister-in-law's from the Bahamas,

so they have... It's not quite as Caribbean, but similar sorts of things. Like ackee, but more conch and things like that. Conch, yes, yes. Is it conch or conch?

Conch. Conch, yeah. Got that right, yeah. And soursop. Soursop, oh, beautiful, beautiful soursop. They don't do so much ackee and saltfish.

That's quite a Jamaican dish, ackee and saltfish. Yeah, we went to Jamaica, pretty disastrous holiday, really. We ended up in a holiday inn that was all-inclusive, and it was rough. Oh, dear. Yeah, but I remember even in the hotel,

we had ackee and saltfish, and it was delicious. And festival. Festivals, yeah. Yeah, that was a revelation. So it's like all the different Caribbean islands have, like, festival is basically what we'd call a fried dumpling or baked it's all the same thing but everyone's got their name for it but we called it bakes in monserrato and dominica where my mum was from they call them bakes and they're beautiful you'd have them for breakfast instead of having like toast or bread

they should fry those in the morning before church on a saturday and um did you ever have grits so my sister-in-law's mum used to make grits and fish stew on a sunday oh we're fish stew on a friday oh yeah was it was it you knew what you were having every day we sort of yes but my mum had this amazing sort of sense so my siblings and i were all quite different and we all like different things yeah so they'd be like four different meals on the table ready at the same time because... Matilda. I know, she was pretty intense and pretty amazing at that, but it never seemed to fluster her or bother her. But lots of Caribbean women or families that I know, they always have a big cook-up.

So on a Sunday, you never have one roast. You have chicken, you have beef, you have a curry, you have everything. at least four or five different types of meat. Yeah. And does that keep you going all week?

Yes, it does. Yeah, basically, big roast on a Saturday, not a Saturday, Sunday, and that'll get you

through to Wednesday. Yeah. Then Wednesday, you'll have a little mixed mash of things and Friday, you'll have a Friday night dinner of something fish.

Yeah, yeah. And then Saturday was like... But there's lots of Caribbean islands that have fish Friday, don't they? Yeah. It's like... I went to that in Barbados.

Yeah. Wastings, fish Friday. Yeah. Beautiful, because it, I mean, it's local produce, isn't it? It's just like,

you're not exactly going to go into the Thames and put your hand in. What's your favourite fish? Red snapper. Me too. Love. They have that a lot in the Bahamas.

Yeah. Love red snapper. It's quite bony. It is quite bony, but if you get a big one yeah get them to debone it for you it's delightful how do you like yours fried or steamed or okay lovely do you like yeah you're gonna come i'm gonna cook for you good i love cooking so this is fried snapper yeah they do some really nice there's a really nice where'd you get your snapper there's a fishmongmonger near me in South East, in Lewisham, that I go to. Yeah.

It's really good. Really, really good. Yeah. When you moved to England, where did you grow up? So we moved to London initially, and then we moved to Preston. Preston?

Lancashire, yeah, Lancashire. So I come from Manchester. Yes, you are. So did you used to go to the Blackpool, the Illuminations?

Yes. My mum, oh my gosh, one of my fondest memories when I was about nine years old, our neighbours told us, oh, you've got to go

to Blackpool Illuminations. I think we'd been in the UK maybe a year. There's a Blackpool Pleasure Beach. My mum was like, oh my God, a beach? We missed the Caribbean.

Are you going to take us to a beach? This is amazing. We got to Blackpool. Oh my God, with the Brown Sea. With the Brown Sea, the donkeys on the beach yeah which are fabulous which i mean it's amazing but it's quite compared to like a caribbean

beach though honestly it's probably one of the first times i saw my mum crying with laughter because she was like this is this is a beach You're mad. But I love Blackpool. We used to go every year. And yeah, fish and chips on the sea. I remember the first time we had fish and chips as well. Oh, it's great. Fish and chips are great, aren't they? Stunning.

Stunning. When we first moved to the UK, our neighbours, they were so lovely. They're still in Preston. They brought over fish supper, fish and chips in newspapers for our family. Fabulous. And my mum was so offended because she was like, think I'm gonna eat out of paper what is this and she's never like no this is this is this is what it's British it's like a tradition you eat it out the fish paper the newspaper and yeah she was like oh okay right and we tucked in and it was

stunning fish and chips are great beautiful up north beautiful So what did your dad do? My dad was an electrician, Peter. And yeah, he used to cook as well. When mum was like away or annoyed at him, he'd have to do the cooking. And he was quite good, you know. Was your mum a Sunday go to church lady? Saturday. Saturday? So I was raised Seventh Day Adventist.

Oh, Seventh Day. Yeah, so it's like, they call it like a Jewish Christianity, don't they? Yeah. Because it's quite literal, like we go to church on Saturday, we celebrate the Sabbath. Do you celebrate Christmas? Yes. You do? Yes.

I think it's Jehovah's Witnesses who don't. But Saturday was church. And again, Saturday lunchtime, all the aunties bringing their Tupperwares full of food they've cooked. Amazing. Great coleslawlaw potato salad fish chicken oxtail amazing and was there a big one

in Preston huge so my mum and my dad were in the choir at church as well were you in the choir no

I was oh my god I can't believe I'm going to say this I was in a Christian boy band with my brothers and my siblings oh my goodness

I've seen a picture of this you've seen a picture Jesse yes you have. We were called Like One. It was sort of like... How did you spell the one? Like One. Like One, not W-O-N.

No, Like One. Not Arrow One in LA. No, it was acapella, Boyz II Men-esque. That sounds amazing. Church songs. We were wearing like... Oh, mate, it was a moment

that I'm happy that's passed it's awful man oh can you like give us a little ditty of one of the songs i don't think i can actually i'm a proper heathen now i don't remember any church songs this looks insane what you know what i've never made it we have a dutch baby oh wow which is goat's cheese and dill, and it's kind of made like a, that actually has worked out quite nice. That looks stunning.

I think. And then I've got pea and asparagus toast, some griddled leeks with a hazelnut and like orange and barley vinegar. I'm gonna get some light spoons, sorry. I'm getting spoiled here. We're getting spoiled in here. Absolutely.

This is stunning. Yeah, she's cooked and she goes for it. That's more than me. See how relaxed I am? Usually I'm bright red in the face and look like a bug. I get you all to myself while Jessie's cooking. This is amazing. This is kind of how it should be.

Right, Mum, you serve up. This is so good. I have to say, because it's not my recipe, You serve up. This is so good. I have to say, because it's not my recipe, I would do this recipe again. Who is this by? I used to do a New York Times one. Wonderful. Yeah.

The Dutch baby, yeah. Honestly, Jessie, it's the best subscription I've ever done. Yeah, it's good. Because Melissa Clarke, we need to get her cookbook. Khadif, if we were coming around to yours, what would you be cooking for us? Would you go Caribbean? Well, it depends on people's level of spice.

I'd get that out of the way. Yeah, Lenny can't do spice. Okay, so I'd do... Are you a hot sauce person? Oh, yeah. The world is divided between hot sauce and non-hot sauce, I think. Hot sauce or the marinade when I'm seasoning stuff, I'll let it stay there for 48

hours if it's something spicy yeah um i'll probably make some um saltfish fritters to start off with some garlic garlic dip or something from scratch my mum used to do this incredible cucumber sort of like she makes her own vinaigrette and these these like coils of cucumber and you just have it soaked in this beautiful garlic. And it's very garlicky, I'm afraid. That's okay. You know, I'll do that. Then probably some Caribbean stewed chicken

with some mac and cheese and some rice and peas. How do you do your mac and cheese? Well, three types of cheese. Is it quite dry? But do you like it dry or creamy? Well, it's a bit of both. My sister-in-law in the Bahamas, they would have it quite dry. Do you like it dry or creamy? Well it's a bit of both. My sister-in-law in the Bahamas they would have it quite dry and you'd serve it in like squares. Yeah exactly like that. Crunchy on top. Like a pie. No breading on top but like a pie.

Because when people tell me it's like mac and cheese is a main I'm like you're actually mad. It's a side. So do some chicken, some mac and cheese. Although I went vegan for three years. How? Yeah, that was worse than when I came out to my parents. Jesus Christ. Honestly, my mum had a worse reaction to me coming out as vegan than when I came out as queer. Because her love language was food.

She was just like, what am I going to cook for you? What am I going to cook for you? I was like, you don't have to cook. Did she start cooking more vegan stuff? Absolutely. She'd do this most amazing spinach lasagna and she would substitute all the like the vegan cheeses and stuff.

I mean it didn't taste the same but it was stunning. And she'd do a cannelloni with vegan cheese as well. Matilda. I know. I know. None of my siblings would eat it though

but I did. It was really delicious. Where do you like eating out? You know you've lived in London for a while, you're a South East Londoner. South East London through and through. Yeah, represent. We're basically neighbours. Yeah, love that. That was just like sealed the deal didn't it babe. So where do you like to eat out in London or South East? There's a beautiful restaurant in Blackheath called Copper and Ink. Oh, I haven't been. Oh my word. Blackheath don't normally have.

It's beautiful. It's all seasonal. It's seasonal. The chef was a previous MasterChef contestant. Mum, you should know. Who was he? I know him. He had bald head, glasses, bit of a curly... Oh, I know him.

You know which one I'm talking about. And the food, we were there two weeks ago. had bald head glasses bit of a curly oh I know him I know him you know which one I'm talking about and the food we were there two weeks ago copper and ink okay great

stunning they're wine list all organic oh my lord I've tried pretty much all the wines on that list they're really beautiful do you like a little

natty wine I do I do I love any sort of wine to be fair yeah me too I love any sort of alcohol to be fair what would be your wine of I love any sort of alcohol, to be fair.

What would be your wine of choice? White. I'd go for Chablis. Nice and crisp. Or if it's a summer, something a bit more floral. Do you like rosé? I do, but it's not really... I'm not fussed about it.

People keep thinking it's like... You were whispering angel, lady. Oh, of course you are. I love it, but there's not many notes about it. People keep thinking it's like you were whispering angel lady. Oh, of course you are. I love it, but there's not many notes in it. I find it just like... I like it because it's very dry. You can drink it quickly. You can drink it really quickly. That cordial.

It's not kind of syrupy at all, like a Chardonnay. I like Chardonnay. I think I only like Californian Chardonnays because I was trying to feel Australian. I haven't realised Chablis is Chardonnay. You like Chardonnay? Yeah, but I think I only like Californian Chardonnays because I was trying to feel Australian. I haven't realised Chablis is Chardonnay. Yeah. I like a Riesling, though.

Like a nice German Riesling. Stunning. I just don't know what I'm doing. You do. I don't. I kind of say that I like something and then I don't really know what I'm talking about. What about red?

What are you like on the reds? You can keep Pinot Noir far away from me. What? I hate Pinot Noir. It's pissy. It's my worst drink. Wow, thankfully I didn't bring you a bottle of that. Whenever they say would you like which red wine I say as long as it's not Pinot Noir. I like a Verpoolicello. Yeah me too. I like Primitivo. Primitivo. I like Gros Omatage. I like a nice Cabernet Sauvignon actually. You know? They're coming back. I tried a really incredible Greek Cab Sav this summer. Oh, the Greek one's amazing. I went to Cappellonia on holiday this summer.

The wines in Greece, Christ. Really good. Yeah. It used to be that everyone laughed at it because it was Razzino or Domestika. No, stunning. And now it's fabulous. Okay, last supper. You know the drill starter main pud

drink of choice who's going to be around the dinner table okay probably me and a podcast no i'm joking no no um who's gonna be around the table all my pals obviously you two thanks my other half my besties um what's okay for starter can i have it from two different restaurants i like this. Okay, so I want... You're speaking our language. I want half a dozen oysters, dressed oysters from Bentley's in town. They do an incredible dressed Vietnamese oysters.

Ooh, so what does it have, like lemongrass in it? Loads of lemongrass. So, so beautiful. Oh my God. Half a dozen of those, and then half a dozen of oysters from Se Seabird the Carlingford oysters. Do you like Seabird? I love Seabird. I'm an oyster girl. Do you like the big fat ones? Honestly the bigger the better.

We won't be fighting over the oysters. No? No. I can do like three and feel fab and then I'm like yeah no I'm done now give me something else. I can't eat oysters. I'd have oysters with a glass of Chapel Down's English sparkling wine. Yeah.

It's nice and dry. This is great, Khalif. You have prepped, you're a professional and I like this. Have you been to the vineyard, Chapel Down Vineyard? I feel like I have, but I haven't because I've drank so much of it. I feel like I am the vineyard. This was earlier in my career.

I did three plays back to back at the Donmar Warehouse. And they were sponsored by Chapel Downs. So we had to do all these fundraisers and got to speak to all the people. I drank so much. I was like, yeah, I want to join the family. I'm not quite sure how to. But you've been, haven't you? Well, I did it on my friend's hen do.

We got somebody from Chapel Downs. Bear in mind there were three pregnant people, including myself, including the bride. And we did wine taste. Great. Because I kind of thought it was fine. Because, you know, a little taste. And you can choose to spit it out if you're not. If not, I was, you know, about six months pregnant.

So I did not spit it out. And it was amazing. And we did it in Rye. And it was just fantastic. Is it in Kent then? It's in Kent. Okay. Maine. Yeah. My? It's in Kent. Okay. Maine?

Yeah. My mum's oxtail. Okay. My mum's mac and cheese. How long does she take to cook her oxtail? About a day. Yeah. Yeah.

And she'd start cleaning it maybe two days before with lemon and vinegar and everything in the back garden. She'd be washing it, getting out all the fat. So no extra bits. And she'd pressure cook it and steam it. all the fat, so no extra bits. She'd pressure cook it and steam it. Bit of browning in there, garlic, chilli, onion,

scotch bonnet. Oh, just stunning. Can you eat scotch bonnet? Yeah, but, I mean, the problem is I always forget that I've got contacts in. And the amount of times I've put scotch bonnet in my eyes. Have you got contact lenses in? I do. You can never tell.

Would you ever get laser surgery? I'm a bit terrified. Me too. I had it done and she said she could smell the flesh of her eye when she was getting it done. Whilst they were burning it in. But did she get good eyes? Great, she's got 20-20 now, but I'm happy for her. I'm also happy to keep wearing lenses.

Yeah, right. How long have you worn glasses? I've worn glasses since I was nine, yeah. Did you take them off when you were in the Christian boy band group? I did. I did. Honestly, there's a photograph of myself at secondary school, and I look like a black Harry Potter,

because I had the bottle, you know, isn't it the same? Oh, dessert. Yeah. I would have... So you're just having oxtail oxtail mac and cheese rice and peas any all my mum's any veg on the side no no I don't want any greenery on my plate nothing got you doing well today then babes no jerk is such um what did they say chicken is the most social meat I have it all the time it's not that special for me yeah right where do you get your jerk from in South London I make it oh or i if i'm going to a caribbean um takeaway there's a place called woodfire grill on lee

high road it's a beautiful lady it's family-run business yeah go get my caribbean takeaways do you make your own jerk seasoning or do you buy it yeah or if i go up to preston my auntie will make some for me and i'll take it back with me and freeze it. And then I'll have it to marinate. I love that. I've got one of those chest freezers, you know, just got a bit of everything in it. I can just defrost. I've still got a couple of my mum's dishes in my freezer. Yeah, pretty insane.

But my mum used to do this amazing thing of when I'm doing a play in the West End or whatever, she would send my dad down to London with maybe about 14 frozen meals for me. Like batch cooking for you. Batch cooking for me, so that when I came home from rehearsals or tech or whatever, I could just stick it in the oven or the microwave and I'd have a home-cooked meal.

She sounds so amazing. She was just the best thing. She passed away quite abruptly, didn't she? She did. How old was she? My mum was 58. Oh, man, she died. Yeah, so my dad died the best thing. She passed away quite abruptly, didn't she? She did. How old was she? My mum was 58. Oh, man, she died. Yeah, so my dad died the year previously.

Oh, goody. I know, this is getting really cheery, this podcast, isn't it? But no, my dad passed away at 59 from COVID-related complications, 2021. And that was really tough on my family because we were all really close. And he was shielding because he was diabetic. So I hadn't seen him for about a year previously and you know that was really tough but we're a really close family and then my parents were together from the time they were 19 so you know I always thought during that year was like I really don't want to lose my mum to grief because she was so grief-stricken with losing my dad and then later

that year she got breast cancer but we got rid of all that and then the year to the day of my dad's anniversary my nan passed away so my mum's I know it's this guy it's like an awful film but um my nan passed away from and she was in Dominica in the Caribbean so the whole family went including my mother, I didn't go to go and bury her and then when my mum was there she didn't feel very well she was there for about a month, she came back to the UK we took her to the hospital and they were like, you've got pancreatic cancer

and they told her six months and she passed away four weeks later so it was really it was really tough and it continues to be tough. But one of the most beautiful things is that I've got so many... My parents were so kind in the fact they've left us with so many great memories because they always told us how much they loved us, they cared about us, how proud they were. And I attribute even me being here today, our friendship, Jessie, our budding friendship, Lenny,

and all the good things in my life down to my mum and all those memories started in the kitchen being around the table, cooking watching her but you felt love enveloped by it I literally feel it here today the most important thing anyone can ever give their children love and care and a nice meal

I'm proud they were so proud absolutely so proud me and all my siblings we're a big old family myself I've got 8 nieces and nephews A nice meal. I'm proud. Oh, they were so proud. Absolutely so proud. Me and all my siblings. We're a big old family myself, so... I've got eight nieces and nephews. No other actors? No, I'm the only...

Well, there's other actors. I'm just the... I'm the professional one. Okay, so just... Just tell me, you went to school. I went to school in Preston. Yeah, till... Till I was 16.

Then I went to sixth form, Runshaw College in Leyland. Shout out, Runshaw. Then I moved to London. I audition. Yeah, till? Till I was 16. Then I went to sixth form, Runshaw College in Leyland. Shout out Runshaw. Then I moved to London. I auditioned for drama schools that year. Didn't get into the school I wanted to go to. Were you acting when you were at school? So, I was a really naughty secondary school person.

Were you? I think I was awful. I got suspended twice, yeah. For what? For doing what? Fighting. Yeah. Had you come out of that?

No, it was all to do with being queer and being gay. It was all to do with that. I was so sort of trying to emulate what masculinity was and be like, oh, cock of the wall, because I had two of my older brothers at the school. They were taller and bigger and stuff, so I sort of never had to worry about being set upon by others. But I just wanted to hide myself, and I wanted to hide in plain sight by being really like sort of quote-unquote

masculine which was awful and so I got into quite a few fights and then I had this one drama teacher Mrs Pamela Haywood Connor who still teaches at Walter Niddell High School and she hounded me she was like I think you need to come to drama class after school I think you need to come because I think you really enjoy it and I was just like f off i don't want to come is that because she thought you'd be able to express completely she could see something channel channel this sort of frustration and she ran my mum after school and my mum was like this woman keeps calling can you just go please because it's really annoying and i walked into that after school drama class and it changed my life completely and she's still there she's still there I ended up getting 13 GCSEs I went to sixth

form did performing arts I still did maths on the side because maths was my favourite subject and then I took a gap year in London because my parents wanted me to go and do maths and be an accountant um nice and sensible and I was really good at maths like you know it was something I excelled in not anymore I've got an accountant for that now I moved to London and sensible. And I was really good at maths. So like, you know, it was something I excelled in. Not anymore. I've got an accountant for that now. I moved to London and I was like, I'm going to, I need to work out a way that I can go to drama school, but pay for myself. So I got a job.

I got a job as, do you remember Gary Rhodes? The chef? So I worked for Gary Rhodes in my gap year. So where were you working? What was your job? He had a Michelin star restaurant called Rhodes W1 in Marble Arch. Right. And I was the host there.

I started as a commie waiter, then a waiter, then head waiter, and then I moved on to host. Because you're so charismatic and they needed to have you at the front. It's mad though, because I was 18.

I was 18. And Gary was so kind and so lovely. But if you're bright and smart and engaging. I loved it, because I loved the food. The chefs there were fantastic. Was Gary kind in the kitchen? Gary was extremely kind.

He wasn't there that much because at that point, I think he had four restaurants. He had one in the city. He had two in Marble Arch and one somewhere else. And he was opening somewhere in Dubai. And Gary was very kind. We'd have wine training and food training twice. That's why you know all this stuff about wine. Yes. Okay. But he had a place in the caribbean didn't he did in grenada yeah you didn't say what you have for dessert oh yeah we haven't finished sorry dessert for me oh my god

i've got you to thank for this well so when i went to lisbon earlier this year you obviously gave yeah gave us some recommendations we were there for five days and only three meals three this is three only three meals weren't on that list that you recommended so for dessert had this most amazing lemon like deconstructed lemon tart from Danoy oh my god Danoy was so good in um in Lisbon and that was amazing and I'll have that with a dirty martini, three olives, very very... Vodka. Vodka, bit of kettle one. So that's why we get up so well. Very very heavy on the brine. You'd have a martini with your pud? I would. Why? Because then if I introduce the sweet into the savoury, I can continue drinking. Oh okay. drinking if there was one course you could give up what would it be it would be dessert because

a starter essential because you've got to have an aperitif with it main that's the main cause and for dessert you could just have another drink so I think Bailey's is my dessert now oh Bailey's okay open my I've already opened one bottle have you my Christmas for you though is so Baileys I think Baileys is my dessert now oh Baileys okay open my I've already opened one bottle have you

my Christmas bottle for you though is it purely seasonal or can you drink it all year round I would drink it all year round but it's so fattening

that I can't drink it all year round who cares you've only got one life enjoy yourself yeah I might not have a very long one if I carry on

enjoying myself yeah to be honest I love Baileys as well though or Tia Maria. Oh, I don't do Tia Maria. It's quite sweet.

It is, but I now put a bit of squirty cream on top. Do you? I do, yeah. That's a good idea. I love that. That's really delicious. Do you like Cointreau? Love Cointreau.

If you put that with ice and it goes all milky, I love it. Yeah. I love Cointreau. Is there any? I even love sherry as well. I'm just going to leave you to talk about the drinks. Are there particular spiritings In Montserrat

Spirits? Is it just rum? Lots and lots of rum But Montserrat has this thing It's British and Irish So basically in Cromwell's Britain They sent a lot of the slaves and stuff Over to Montserrat

So I was born in Cork, Montserrat My last name is Kerwin. It's like, we celebrate St. Patrick's Day, our colours are like red, green and white. They call Montserrat the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean. There's all these

like, and there's also some accents in Montserrat that sound completely, our mutual friend, Aisling Bean, we're thinking of doing something to encompass that and some sort of documentary and stuff yeah because she's Irish she's Irish yeah of course you're in this way up I'm in this way up with Aisling I loved and Aisling has been a really good friend to you hasn't she honestly like it's so rare to do a job and basically leave with a family member and that's definitely what I found in Aisling completely kind completely just personable and just the most brilliant person biggest heart

ever you have this where well because you're absolutely wonderful and gorgeous and brilliant you and Michaela Cole have this you're you're like siblings right yeah she's my sister I literally she's literally my sister my actual sister who is also called Michaela is going to be fuming I said that they're friends now but she gets so annoyed when I talk about she's like my sister Michaela she's like do you mean me or Michaela Cole I'm like both of you but Michaela Cole is again another beautiful friend of mine and seeing her rise to stardom well actually seeing everyone else catch up to what we've already known has been beautiful but I feel like it's my lot in life to be

surrounded by wonderful women like between Michaela and Aisling and my lovely sister with you two even like my career like it's Michaela and Aisling and Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Daniel Lawrence all these wonderful people that have given me my step up. So I'm like, yeah, all right. That's pretty lovely. Well, speaking of steps up, I mean, we can't talk about what you're doing, but you're going to be doing something very exciting. Yes, I'm in the process of talking about doing a play next year at the National, which I can say that much.

Would you be the starring role? Yes, it's going to be really exciting once we finalise all the details. But I'm so excited to get back to theatre. Slow Horses has been the most incredible job. And it continues to be the most incredible job. We've shot more as well. So there's definitely more to come with that. But I'm excited to pop back into theatre for a little bit.

I also write as well. So it's like oh thank you so yeah I'm under commission with BBC Studios with my own show it's been in development with them for a little while it's sort of semi autobiographical slash not it's a brilliant show set

in Manchester Lenny is the boy band going to be in it? no god no really I think Jesse you've not recovered from that I'm just obsessed

with like these what did you just sing we just sang yeah you didn't play an instrument all acapella

that's amazing yeah my cousin Nadia's had this little one of those little whistle things but I haven't

heard you sing no I've done a bunch of musicals though as well my first job when I left drama school was sister act But I haven't heard you sing. No, I've done a bunch of musicals, though, as well. My first job when I left drama school was Sister Act with Cynthia Erivo. Oh, no big deal. I also noticed that you play Skye Masterson. The last theatre job I did, I played Skye in Guys and Dolls at the Sheffield Crucible 2021, yeah. Jessie played Miss Adelaide once.

I think maybe... Darling, I want to know what you're doing for Christmas. So for Christmas, I will be spending it up in Lancashire with my siblings. My brother's just had an extension done, so he's very excited for us to come around and rub that in our face. So we're going back to my brother's. Normally, on Christmas morning... So where will you stay?

I will stay either at the family home or in a lovely hotel. Is your family home still there? Yeah, so another one of my older brothers, when my parents passed away, he took over. So he now lives there with his kids. Because it keeps it in the family. So all the family are up in Preston. So like I said, I think my mum was one of 14, my dad was one of eight. So there's just loads of family.

I've got family in North London, loads of family in North London. Yeah. Lots in Preston, lots, lots in Preston. In the particular village that we live,

there's 14 houses of my family in this one village. So there's going to be lots of knock, knock, knock. Is there a pub nearby?

No, they just, they just have a bar in their house. Are they a proper bar in the house? So Preston, Christmas, I'm in charge of the bar.

So have you got to bring the booze? Yeah, so I've already had some stuff delivered actually. What's going to be on the menu? So we're starting off with some Mai Tais in the morning. You're going to be like Tom Cruise? Mixologist, yeah. Should we do that, Jess?

A Christmas cocktail, go on no somebody else can be on cocktails then because i i have this bloody oven that i need to be monitoring the whole time so we'll have a cosmo okay yeah cosmo martini oh mom i have to say i did this gig in in australia where i had to do like an acoustic intimate performance and people had dinner at this place called farmer's daughter also by the way i'm not a baker and it looks a bit sad but it will taste all right mum will you cut please and um no it's not don't have the bum end if you don't have the bum end go from that side and i had to sing and i felt like i was at a bat mitzvah or wedding it was very um it was very lovely sweet but they started the cocktail

with one that was called Beautiful People, but I think it was like a Cosmo. I felt like maybe it was because of you. Oh, shush. Oh, yes, because when Raven Smith was on,

you two were obsessing about the Cosmos, weren't you? Yeah, because he thinks they should be brought back. I do too, to be fair. I think they're the best cocktail. There's a lot of them.

They're quite sharp. A good one is quite sharp. That's what I love. Okay. That's the best thing about a Cosmo. But the reason she got into them was because of Carrie Bradshaw. I don't know that I did, but I just like the taste. This is amazing.

Quite nice. Oh, my God. Babe, it's definitely easy. Oh, you need to give me the recipe for this. Why is it so yellow? It's BBC Good Food, babes, because I use those really nice St. Hugh yolk. What's that? Carraway seed.

Right. So what will you be eating on Christmas? Christmas will be, we'll do a leg of lamb. We don't do turkey because turkey's, I'm sorry, bruv. Turkey's the worst meat. Turkey is dry. I love it. No.

I'll have a turkey sandwich from Pratt, but I won't have an actual turkey. I don't know. What is it about it that you love? Girls Aloud love the turkey sandwich from Pratt. Yeah. I started the Girls Aloud fan society at my secondary school when I was 13.

Did you? Yes. And you weren't out by that point. I was not out. I mean, come on. No joke. That's amazing. We're going to do lots of meat.

We'll do oxtail. We'll do... Okay, so there's this thing in the Caribbean called souse that we eat on christmas morning and it's like all the joints of the cow carry on and it's done with okra and um like a stew when you have fried dumpling with it and it's like this and kind of like using like the all the yeah all the jelly bits and is it kind of like using the broth? All the jelly bits. Is it delicious? It's so lovely.

But to look at it, it can come out a bit hairy. Really hairy. Yeah. Because it's like the hooves and the... Yeah. Look. Fallow would like that one. I think you should try it with your son. Who couldn't even eat marrow.

It's delicious. So we're probably going to have some sauce. We'll have chicken. We'll have fish. We'll have, I said lamb, maybe beef as well. And then we'll do all the trimmings. And I think I'm going to do some d'oeuvre noire. Will you cook any of it?

I'll do the bar and I will point at what's going wrong. I'm with you. Perfect. No, to be fair, the food was so important to us. There's quite a few good cooks in the family, so I'm not worried. I think I'm going to perfect no to be fair the food was so important to us there's quite a few good cooks in the family so I'm not worried I think I'm going to have a good meal

when you start this theatre job will you eat one of your mum's frozen meals I will that's the next time I'm going to eat one of her meals

do you know which one you're going to choose yes I've got one of her veg lasagnas from when I was vegan so double edged I think I'm going to have that maybe before the first preview.

There's a little like good luck. Yeah. But yeah, I'm going to have one of her meals. Really delightful. Working at Gary Rhodes, being a host, did you deal with some real tricky customers? Yes. Anything spring to mind? I remember someone asked me to debone their fish and they presented me

with a pair of tweezers in front of them. Did they bring their own tweezers? They brought their own tweezers. This lovely lady, who I thought she was lovely initially, she ordered the place and I said to her it's going to be really bony because they're doing it flat and it's just coming as it's going to be

really bony on the sides. She was like, it's absolutely fine. I'm sure I've got some tweezers. I'm like, cool. I think they were actually for her eyes, but you know. And she was like, is this too much? I was like, I did say, but I'm happy to take it back to the kitchen. Customer's always right. Always.

And she was like, no, you can do it. It's fine. And I was like, I started. I started to debone her place with her tweezers. And I was just like, I'm not paid enough for this. So I'm actually going to take it back to the chefs. And they were just like, just tell her to order something else. Oh, God.

I want to know if you like karaoke. Oh, do I like karaoke? Do you know what? I do. What would be your... You see, people do, Jessie. Can you... No, you're right.

My song, Donna Summer, Tina Arena, Enough is Enough. Tina Arena? Don't you mean Barbra Streisand? I'm in chains, you were going to say. Oh, my God. Call yourself gay. Get out of here. Donna Summer, Barbra Streisand, Enough is Enough.

So who's going to sing the... I'm singing both. Okay. I'm singing both. Even if Barbra was in the room, I'm singing both. Even if she were there? Yeah. Just started her audio book.

48 hours. She's really nice though. You know like people use Harry Styles with the Calm app? Basically, you can nod off and you come back and she's still in the same chapter. So you don't feel like you've missed anything. It's fine. It's very nice. Well, Kadif, it's a pleasure.

I'm really glad that you got to meet Lenny. I'm thrilled I finally got to meet Lenny. I hope I haven't disappointed you. No, if anything, I'm more in love with you now. Oh my God. Can I ask you one more question? You can indeed. A nostalgic taste that can transport you back to somewhere,

happy or sad? It would be climbing the kinip tree in the Caribbean. They're called kinips. Kinips? Yeah. Why do you call them called kinips why are you oh sorry Kim how to say Gwen calls them kinips Gwen is from Bahamas

they're like little hard bally things why don't we let kinipics play I love you two you two are amazing it would be climbing a kinip tree in the caribbean these wonderful it's like they're they're local they're only locals of the caribbean and you they're like these little green things and you you cut the top off and it's like orange

inside and you suck it off like lychee and it's so beautiful and it smells so fragrant my mum would take the leaves of the kinipip tree, dry them out, and you can make a beautiful herbal tea with them. And they were really, really delicious. Boil it and it was just, yeah. Can you ever get them here? You can actually. You can get them in Lucian.

Yeah, I'll bring you a box around when I come around. Oh yeah, I really want to try them. Oh well, they're stunning. Do you think they travel? They do, they do. They'll travel green and then by the time they get here, they'll be ripe. That's the Caribbean for me.

I know we do bananas and all that stuff. The first time I ate a banana, I was 14. Why basically my mum and my mum was a teenager there was a hurricane on the island that she was from and all the bananas fell off the tree so they ate bananas for like three months so she just could not stand the banana like so yeah they were just never around in our house and then I finally tried on when i was like these are lovely oh my god she couldn't even look at how often do you go i haven't been back since i was 11 i think should we all go please i'd love to revisit it and um say thank you to the island you know and on that note thank you khadif for being on table manners being gorgeous thank you both so much and thank you for that meal

that was stunning no you're welcome I would do that again yeah we've got clean plates look at this perfect would you like to take a little bit of cake

for your other half he loves that okay great alright thank you Kadif thank you you. Mum, didn't I tell you you were going to love him? Completely in love. He's the best human. But not only that, he made me feel small.

Because he's so... Big, sexy man. Yes. Yeah. I love him. I mean, he never stops, I don't think, working. No. Very hardworking, very talented, very kind.

Can do everything. Can do everything. Yeah. I love the idea of him with the tweezers doing the place. Taking fish bones out. Kadif Kirwan, thank you so much for coming on and eating all the food and talking all the talk and also talking so beautifully about your mum, Matilda. And it was just really, it was a real pleasure to have you on. And her food.

And her food. You can see Kadif in Slow Horses, which the new season's out now. You can also see him in This Way Up. You can see him, he's been in everything, everything that's kind of a critically acclaimed British something or other.

This Way Up, Chewing Gum, I May Destroy You, This Is Going To Hurt. He's in everything. And so I can't wait to see what happens. I can't wait to hear

what's happening at the National. I know. Exciting year for him. Thank you to kadif kerwin for coming on thank you to mum for matching with me so we both look like we're butlin's hosts in that uh selfie with kadif and um thank you to australia for inspiring me and please can you have me back very soon i really think we should do a series in australia fine we'll see you next

week it's the christmas. With all the tips for your Christmas lunch. Yes. And it's quite a Christmas cracker. Wow. It's a bonanza. I think it's one of the most exciting episodes. It really is. For Christmas. So if you need some ideas for Christmas, we've

got you covered with the creme de la creme of the cooking and chef world. They've all been on the podcast. They have. They're all friends of the podcast. Yeah. And they are all offering tips. They're with the best tips for a relaxed, lovely, gourmet Christmas.

We'll see you next week. Thank you.