Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S2 Ep 4: Amol Rajan

Episode Date: March 7, 2018

Is there anything Amol Rajan hasn’t done? Presenter of The One Show, youngest editor of the Independent newspaper, judge on Masterchef, and now currently the BBC’s Media Editor. Over a savoury cheesecake he manages to makes us laugh with his penchant for Del Boy dinners and nearly gives mum a heart attack with his last minute vegetarian request. Pass the piña coladas, let's get started!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to our podcast Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm sat here with my mother. Sitting darling. I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here with my mother. Now I have to say I have decided to try and stop swearing as much. Good. Because there's been lots of conversations, not only with you, but with my in-laws. They've even said I swear too much. And they've never criticised me. I think you put off older listeners. OK.

And also, you're a princess. Princesses don't swear. Yeah. Basically, I apologise to everybody who has experienced my potty mouth during the last series and I will endeavour to improve and learn from my mistakes and I'm going to just try and say less fucks and that's it. Well, I'm relieved because I think you swear a bit much

and I can swear. It's going to be really difficult for me because... But you have got a child, Jessie. I know. And we don't want her first, you know her first word, we thought it was duck, but we're not sure. Okay, so we've got sugar, fiddlesticks. Yeah. That's just not going to... Frigging. No, I don't think that's a word. Is that a swear word? Friggin'. No, I'm not. Is that a swear word? They say it in America a lot, friggin'.

Or freaking. That's what they say in America. Freaking. Don't they? I'm not saying freaking. Tonight's guest is Amol Rajan. Yeah, he's the media editor for the BBC. Yeah, and when he's not doing that...

The one show. The one show. BBC News. MasterChef. MasterChef. Plus Newsnight. I remember when he was on The Right Stuff. That's where I remember watching him on Channel 5.

Oh, I remember him when he was editor of The Independent. Oh, well, there you go. However, Amol decided to tell us in an email this morning, oh, I'm so sorry, I forgot to tell you that I have turned vegetarian for the new year. That was okay. But I'm a flexitarian, he says. Little did he know that Ginger Pig had kindly given us some beautiful beef short ribs, two kilos worth.

And I've been marinating them in wine and rosemary and garlic. That'll be okay, darling. So, George Ezra's about to get four-day marinated short ribs when we do the next podcast. Let's not tell him. Okay. But, so it's meant we've had to think on our feet, hasn't it, Mum? Yeah. So what are we doing tonight?

I'm doing a savoury cheesecake that he will not regret. So isn't that just a key? No, it is not. Why? It's like a cheesecake because it's got all the things you put in a sweet cheesecake, but it doesn't have sugar and it has onions and courgettes in so it's a courgette savoury cheesecake. I don't, I've never made a cheesecake.

With a biscuit base. A buttery biscuit base. A buttery biscuit base with parmesan in, made with tuck biscuits. Tuck biscuits? Yeah. Hmm. So it's a savoury cheesecake. I'm doing the pudding.

Yeah. It's a bit of a lazy pudding, but it looks really nice. It's poached plums with muscat, dessert wine, cardamom, and I've put some black pepper on the top. I don't know if it's going to

work, I just think that's going to be quite nice. And then we're going to serve it with creme fraiche and the most delicious ginger oat cookie. That you've made? No. Jessica.

I bought them in a really good farm shop in Dorset. Okay. All right, fine. So tonight we have a mole rajan coming up on Table Manners. I've got red wine that is available. Will you drink red wine? I'm well up for that. Okay, fine.

Thank you very much. Right, I can't call you Moley on this. Yes, you can. I can't really. So can you just pronounce your name because we've all been saying it wrong

because I've never called you Moley. You know, it's a really funny thing. I got an email from the BBC pronunciation unit and you get, you get,

this week, just the other day because I did start the week on Radio 4 this week and basically, clearly, a lot of the guests were saying a mole, a mole, saying it in all sorts of ways. And I got an email, a very pompous email, being like, I'm sorry, but this is a very

serious question. There are many people within the BBC who are actually slightly concerned they're pronouncing your name wrong. And I thought that was nice. I thought that was nice. Yes. So I responded, as I always do, by saying, basically, you pretend there's an E on the end.

And if you're in your garden and you saw a mole, you say it's a mole but it's amazing how many problems and look at the last name well it's funny you should mention that it's it's rajan right yeah but so one big problem i've had so i used to work at the foreign office and you'd ring people up and be like it's a mole from the foreign office and they'd be like you're you're a spy and you're telling us this is really weird but i'll tell you something very weird which i've never said in public ever before and i'm immediately going to regret is that to a certain kind of man from a privileged background my surname really throws them it's something about the raj it like brings back these sort of imperial colonial memories yeah They think you're going to come in on

an elephant. Or that you're going to sort of be like waving one of those weird fans or something on a veranda. Justin Webb from the Today programme literally introduced me, has done on air. We're joined now by our media editor

Amol Rajan. So Ranjan, what do you think about... Ranjan. Oh my God. I had breakfast once with Lionel Barber, who's the editor of the FT, and he definitely knows my name's Amol. And I rang him about an hour after we'd had this hour-long breakfast, and he picks up the phone and he goes,

Hello, Rajan. Oh, that's so balmy. I think it's because the Raj really throws people. So anyway, my name is a mere nine letters, but it's caused me tremendous problems in the short course of my life. And I should also say now given we're talking about my name, that Amol Rajan is an anagram of major anal.

Becky loves that. Oh dear. Thank you. Thank you, Amol. Rajan Rajan no I'm joking thank you Jessie Ware for having me no listen

it's such a pleasure to have you and we have so much to talk about and firstly we have to talk about you being a bloody vegetarian

I'm sorry what the last I saw was you soaking gammon at Christmas time in Coca-Cola or something. It's a very good recipe.

That is a Nigella recipe. Well, you won't do that. That's why I went for short ribs, babe. I've got short ribs with marinade. Have you made them already? No, no, no. We're giving them to George Ezra. Don't worry.

We have to do emergency. So you were thinking, I could give these short ribs to a mole. I could give them to George Ezra. And you're thinking, I might as well prioritize. That's fair enough. We wanted to respect your vegetarianism. So the first thing to say is it's not because I'm from some sort of

very religious background I mean I'm sort of culturally of Hindu heritage it's not that at all I have flirted with vegetarianism many many times in my life and I am basically the thing about being vegetarian is it's I think it's the right thing to do but I also think it's so boring because it turns every meal time into a kind of ethical exercise

in a way that you really don't want it to be. But basically, I think that intellectually, I'm completely persuaded of the case on, first of all, the grounds of animal welfare, because I think animals that are highly sentient experience terrible suffering as a result of the food industry, and I think that's really bad. Secondly, I'm not some sort of card carrying environmentalist but suddenly having become a father um becoming a parent very similar time to you yeah i suddenly in a weird sort of way really

care about the world 100 years from now 150 years from now in a way that i didn't before and if you think that climate change is happening and it's caused by humanity, the single biggest thing you can do is not recycle your silly plastic bags into one pile or another, but is stop eating beef, which is in every single way the most environmental. That's what Sam said. Did you watch What the Health and Cowspiracy? And you watch What the Health and Cowspiracy. I didn't see Cowspiracy. I saw What the Health, which persuaded me of the third thing, which is my health.

There's obviously good things about eating meat, spiritually, I saw What the Health, which persuaded me of the third thing, which is my health. And I'm, it's not, I can't, you know, there's obviously good things about eating meat, but I just eat healthier when I stop eating meat. If you guys had said, I'm afraid we've cooked you a beef lasagna, I'd have loved it. Babe, I... I love the taste of meat. I love the...

I toyed with... Toying with me. Well, I just thought, well, you know... Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. I'm just going well, you know, we had, cheers, cheers,

cheers. I'm just going to check that the garlic's not burning. But I think that if, how much red meat did you eat there? I mean, so I was a,

so I was a restaurant critic for six years. I go on one of my many jobs, which is, this is going to be awkward when I do it on MasterChef, but I go on MasterChef. Yeah,

how are you going to do this, Ben? This is, well, I think I'm going to adopt of uh what we call a flexitarian pose in which I'm going to briefly become a hypocrite and shamelessly uh eat meat because it's really fun and I know that's that's terrible and I should say that I know when you talk about being vegetarian it's hard not to talk in a way that a makes other people feel bad and i have for 20 years eaten more meat than you know i love pizza pepperoni and beef and all the rest of it something

and i've flirted with vegetarianism in the past i have to say something about becoming a dad just changed it it just it just made it i know it so weird, just suddenly it wasn't about me. But if you're Hindi, then... My family are vegan. They don't eat meat. So I started eating... So you were brought up not eating meat. So is that why you kind of ate so much meat, because you were kind of making up for lost time?

I remember, like, it was yesterday, the first time at the bottom of Franciscan Road in Tooting. I know. I went to, you know, Franciscan Road, there was the old Smith brothers there, down the road from my old school Graveney um there was a Dallas chicken and I remember the first the first time I ate a succulent piece of chicken breast coated in breadcrumbs I swear I could have run into the

back of the into the back of the kitchen and just smothered myself in that breadcrumb recipe it was so and it was it was an act of rebellion and an act of transgression and I love the taste of meat so much. Did your parents know that you tried it? Don't ask questions like that. I don't think they knew that. Do they still think you're... No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not like that smoking, drinking thing

when you get into your 30s and you're confessing to your parents on a podcast that you have tried alcohol. No, they know that I ate meat for a long time i think my parents were um you know of indian heritage and my dad was uh from quite a conservative culture he was tamil my mum was from a much more liberal culture but between them my mum was from west india between them they're quite liberal asian parents they sort of said you know find your own way do your own thing they didn't force god down throat. They didn't do any of that stuff. And so they were quite understanding about it. But I think they probably slightly disapproved. And I think they, they're

both Hindu and I'm not, you know, I was culturally Hindu, but not particularly religious. I think they found the slaughter of cows particularly difficult. And I have to say, I really like cows. difficult and I have to say I really like cows are you a good cook I am in my imagination and I I are you adventurous I'm not as adventurous this is awful and it's gonna sound like product placement but basically when I've got mates coming around on a saturday i get very excited on a tuesday and my wife charlie who you know or charlotte is an amazing cook used to work in the world of food and when we did when i was a restaurant well she worked she worked at a deli in um in a place outside topsham in next to where she's from in in devon and she knows a lot about cooking and there's this weird thing that so much

of food i mean food is relationships right it's a way of navigating families and basically there's this weird thing that we just know that if Charlie cooks the food it's going to be better so I kind of often let her take the lead I'm sous chef do you really help honestly no but I do really help and also there is I think one of the key things to a successful relationship not that I know much about it is you've got to work out who does which task and we take ownership of different courses so I will do the starters or the sides and she will do the main can I have an example of a starter that you would do or a side okay what was the last what was the last kind of dinner party you had and what

was it she cooked an amazing she what did she cook she cooked an amazing fish pie and she left the bacon out of it because of her flexitarian husband i've never had bacon in a fish pie before do you eat fish have you well i did this particular occasion bacon belongs in a fish pie what does i did not know never had that this is excellent for the cookbook thank you so much and what would be really nice is a few charred iceberg lettuces on the side maybe some peas with a bit of butter lemon parsley

little jam on a griddled pan on a griddled pan I tell you the best meal I ever cooked because of not because of the taste but because of what it represented was just after our son was born pan. Yeah, just on a griddle pan. I tell you, the best meal that I ever cooked because of, not because of the taste,

but because of what it represented was just after our son was born. We were on maternity leave, paternity leave,

and you know that thing post becoming a parent where there's this few weeks where it's just you're in this little

bubble and day turns into night. It's a fog and you're exhausted. Becky, my manager,

got me the best gift ever. It was cook delivery, frozen exhausted. Becky, my manager, got me the best gift ever. It was cook delivery frozen meals. Cook? No. They are. No, yeah. Can they be our sponsor?

The beef stroganoff is incredible. They've got a shopping crouch end, which is so good. Have they? Abbeyville. Abbeyville Road. I know people that have pretended they've cooked their dinner party and actually it's been cooked. And actually you wouldn't have been able to sell it.

The only thing is the portions are small. They're a bit small. They are. So you need double. But go on, sorry, back to yours. I did this roast chicken. I really like doing cloves of garlic, which you clearly have done tonight.

If you roast garlic garlic you just take the edge off it it loses its sharpness and we did these wonderful vegetables it was parsnips

and carrots and sweet potatoes few people know that sweet potato when you cook it the sweetness comes out it caramelises

and I just did this meal which was chicken and veg and it was you know it was the moment that it was like

two became three and we sat there you know lenny this is don't get emotional it's meant to be funny i'm trying to be trying to be deeply romantic everyone's laughing but no but actually food does that to you it's about relationships and you know i will never ever forget sitting there and i think we i think we shed a tear and it was just like we're a family now and the thing that told us we're a family now was that we're eating together it wasn't because you were tired and you were crying

you didn't know how to keep the baby from crying maybe I don't know how you could live without a roast roast is the best thing on earth beef or chicken I love beef or lamb. Or lamb.

Yeah. Do you have good curry recipes? I know everyone says their mum is the best cook in the world. But my mum really is the best cook in the world. And one of the things... Are you guys into Indian food? Do you like it? So much.

So much. Mum was going to do a curry tonight. I was going to do a curry I was going to do a monkfish curry mum oh but we thought no

I love monkfish curry I'd love how would you have done it you'd have made a little masala curry masala garlic curry powder

onion garlic but we thought maybe it wasn't but also why cook a curry for someone whose mum cooks the best curry

yeah it's true okay what's her best dish? So probably she makes this tamarind chutney. Do you know tamarind chutney? Oh, yeah, tamarind chutney. I think it's a difficult... I've never cooked well with tamarind, but I'm obviously not doing it right.

I don't know. But you've never had the fresh fruit, darling. No, it's true. But Indian food, I think a lot of people, I'm sure everyone comes from anywhere that isn't England and says this, but a lot of people who love curry basically like quite sloppy kormas and things like that, which are northwestern. You like dry curry.

So my dad is from Tamil Nadu, which is in southeast India. And my mum is from Pune, which is the ninth biggest city next to Bombay in Maharashtra. And my mum and dad are they could be from two different planets so they're both indian but india is a continent country has a more diversity there than is imaginable and you could almost say a sort of spanish person and a slovakian have more in common than my mum and dad you know my dad is from a culture which is um conservative ritualistic quite cautious quite um introspective. My mum is a kind of happy-go-lucky, playing cards, having a good time thing.

And their food is completely different. And in Southeast India, it's all about pulses and lentils and rice is the crop. So you get idli, dosa, coconut chutney. My mum is from West India, which is about rotis and bhajis and all that kind of thing. So you get the best of both worlds worlds what did they talk to each other how where did they meet and what language did they speak it's an amazing story actually my mum and dad had an arranged marriage and there's something really they live so far away were they related no because what happened is my dad so my dad was one of they're both one of 11 one of 11. And my dad is, there's no other way of saying it,

my dad's a genius. He's extraordinarily intellectual. If you said to him, what's 27 times 27? He'd say it's 729. And he'd be very... Is that actually the correct answer? That is the correct answer, yeah. Because you're a genius.

I'm not a genius. That was showing off without meaning to. So my dad, so this is an amazing thing. My dad grew up in Southeast India. He got all of his, my dad especially, is from a very, very, very, very poor background. And that's a big part of my drive to do well in life. And he went to Delhi to earn some money

so he could get his sisters married. And he had an older brother who sadly passed away, my uncle Srinivasan. And there was this extraordinary thing that he worked in this ammunition factory, and he went up one day, I think it was March 1977, to see my dad and said, look, Farid, that's my dad's name,

we've got all your younger sisters married, and we're very grateful for what you did on that front, but mum, my grandmother, who's sadly no longer alive, is very worried about you, because you're her favourite child and you're still single and you're 34, which is very old in those days to get married. There's a beautiful girl at Miami Initiates factory. Would you consider her for marriage?

This is like every Indian novel I've ever read. And my dad, who wanted nothing to do with it, said, look, I'll cut you a deal. And he was very close to his older brother. He said, I'll see the girl, because that's how they taught. How old was he then? Dad was 34, mum was 13. So he was a bit older.

Yeah, so he was 34, mum was 29. And he said, I'll see the girl, and I'm happy to meet her, but if I don't like her, and I'm not trying to sound like a chauvinist, it's just that's how they talked back then. If I don't like her and I'm not trying to sound like a chauvinist it's just that's how they talked back then if I don't like her then I want you guys to leave me alone and I'm going to go and be a poet in the Himalayas and my uncle wrote a letter on yellow parchment paper which he delivered by freight train I think it was March of 26 1976 to my mother and said my dear sunanda from her colleague um as you may remember i have a

handsome brother he rides a motorcycle he is intellectually able uh he earns a good living and he's a loyal and decent person and so on and um so they arranged a meeting and i remember reading i had the letter i've got the letter the original letter which was delivered by very unreliable freight train back in those days. It would have taken four days. And I remember showing the letter to people at my wedding and saying, if I hadn't been for this letter, none of you would be here and I wouldn't be. And there's something, I think, incredibly romantic about that arranged marriage.

People think of arranged marriages as somehow a kind of dry economic arrangement. But there's something cool about that, don't you think? I think it's gorgeous. I'm just going to say this now. I've bloody burnt the garlic on the roast potatoes. I love burnt garlic. Really? Big time. Really? roast potatoes I love burnt garlic really? big time

really? no I love it okay well we have mum do you want to tell it's a savoury cheesecake with courgette

beautiful for me that just sounds like either a quiche or a souffle well I made it once before and it was great is mascarpone the base? no that's what I thought

no it's got cream cheese, sour cream. It's got ordinary cheese. It's got onions. It's got courgettes in. It's going to be delicious. It might be. Then we've got a slow roasted tomato rocket salad. And then we've got...

Balsamic dressing I see. Yeah, it's basically... I put a bit of glaze on there. And then we've got a roasted cauliflower with hazelnuts and bits and bobs in there. And some burnt roast potatoes that's funny it's a bit of a funny one

but you're vegetarians this is what happens the short ribs are still marinating if this is a punishment sign me up because this looks fantastic

how do you get the MasterChef gig did you just luck out there I did luck out in a big way so MasterChef is did you just luck out there I did luck out in a big way so MasterChef is one of the most fun jobs

you could possibly do yeah I bet I do it like a couple of times a year and it's yeah

it's really unbelievably fun if you're a restaurant critic eventually they kind of eventually come for you on those shows so Great British Menu

and MasterChef. And yeah, I did a couple of shows and it seems really straightforward. You turn up, you eat eight courses and you have strong opinions about food. I think actually, because you're conscious of being on TV, I think you've got to try...

I know it's a really fun gig. Do you have to try really hard to be constructive on MasterChef? Because I think it's quite easy to go up there and be kind of, well, I hate your blueberries or, you know, whatever, whatever. I think you've got to try very hard to say something that people at home will actually learn from. But they turn you into a mean person. They turn you into a mean person. But you in particular. You in particular.

Do I come across as mean? Tom thinks you come across really mean. Well, I try so hard to be nice. If you're going to nail the MasterChef critique, the first thing you need is the sound of crockery. Oh, yeah. Okay, we've got that. And then you need the sound of the first cut in.

Oh. The food has just gone off. What does that say about your buttery biscuit face, love? It just ended up on the floor. That was weird. Hang on a second. That has never happened

on MasterChef, ever. Okay, it's all right. God, this is a podcast. It's all right, it's all right. You can have another bit. No, three second rule? No, no, I want to eat that. No, I don't mind three second rule. I'm so into the three second rule. Do you mind if I eat this? No. It's alright, it's alright. You can have another bit. No, three second rule? No, no, I want to eat that.

No, I don't mind three second rule. I'm so into the three second rule. Do you mind if I eat this? No. I hope you like it. It is good mum. I told you it's nice. It's good.

It's not like a potato. Mmmmm. Now is that your master chef? What do you think? That's my genuine. Okay. It's really tasty. For me it's really oniony.

Oh my gosh. That's incredible. Love that. This is becoming a bit master chef. It's really oniony. Oh my gosh. That's incredible. This is becoming a bit MasterChef. No, I like this. It's got a absolute key thing is it's got a fluffy quiche texture, the cheesecake bit. The top of it's not burnt but it's just cooked enough to give it a slightly caramelised

flavour. But it's all about the biscuit. It's all about the biscuit. Do you like the biscuit? The biscuit's incredible. I love that you nearly just took Michelle Rue Jr's thing you nearly just said the base is cooked to perfection

the base is cooked to perfection I mean to bring it back to you because this is about you it's not about me it's about you I

your profile has got bigger and bigger I feel like over the last year or two. Where you're a master chef, you're on The One Show, you're hosting Radio 2 programme. Are you? Yeah, Radio 2, yeah. I'm on the 10 o'clock news now.

Are you? Which is quite fun. I'm that guy now on the news who goes, da-da-da-da, Amal Rajan, BBC News. That's so exciting. It is exciting. And there's something unbelievably thrilling about live broadcast and about broadcast. The magic, it just, it will never die.

The magic of TV and radio is just, it's so exhilarating. It's so, so, so cool. It must be quite similar to when I do a live show and you can kind of get it wrong and whatever. But then when it works out, you're kind of like, okay, cool. So for pudding, we have something that actually I ate

with my mother-in-law this weekend in Dorset. And it's poached plums with some cardamom and muscat dessert wine I've never cooked with it and then with creme fraiche and a ginger

cookie did you make the ginger cookie no babe good because like I don't have time for that

and these ones are excellent they're from this amazing farm shop called Washington Pool Farm Shop which I love and actually

did you watch the last series of Broadchurch yeah where Lenny Henry worked yeah that is the farm shop

really yes oh wow Lenny Henry was so good in that series I thought he was not excellent

in it really no I want to ask because okay how many meals out do you get to go on being a restaurant critic critic i want this

gig it's an amazing gig such a good like basically dates are sorted marriages are sorted um i used to go out for maybe it's all takes a bit of a backward step when you become a parent. Yes, it does. God, this is such first world stuff. Two to three meals a week. And... Still? No, no, not anymore. No, this was before Winston. Oh, cardamom.

I've just got to... Yeah, especially if we... Yeah, which is very Indian. Yes. Very Indian. I love cooking with cardamom. Cardamom is gorgeous. And I put black pepper on the plums, which I've never done before, but I feel like that

means that it can be our cookbook. Sorry, Tessa. This is our recipe now. Are you more of a dessert person or a mains? I'm a dessert fanatic. Are you? I love dessert. Just like Greg Wallace.

Do you know what? I have about three chocolate things a day. I love sweet stuff so much. So when I was a kid, I was very, very fat. I was like 15 stone. Thank you for looking at this episode. I was fatty too. You look like an stone. Don't, thank you for looking at this episode. I was, I was fatty too.

Oh, you look like an under eater to me. You did just not eat that much by the way. You held back. Lenny, I mean, I,

I, I was very, very fat as a kid. Very, very fat. I mean, I was, I mean,

obese, seriously obese. Um, and I, I think that affected my personality in some quite bad ways but basically i love sweet stuff so much and i would have left my own devices i would eat three or four sweet things a day today i had a chocolate brownie today from itsu you get these incredible gingerbread things with

like a kind of ginger yogurty thing and it's got chocolate chips and it's got chocolate brownie things i have one of those i don't eat like dime bars anymore but i eat kind of ginger yogurty thing and it's got chocolate chips and it's got chocolate brownie things and I have one of those. I don't eat like dime bars anymore but I eat kind of. I love a dime bar though. When you go to Ikea and you get. It's stuck in your teeth. No but they're so good the little minis. Top five chocolates. Well I'm not the biggest chocolate person but Lindor Balls.

I'm talking about chocolate bars in the newsagent. Oh okay. Okay fine. Drifter. Number one. Oh really? Dr fine. Drifter, number one. Oh, really? Drifter, with those delicious bits of wafer and caramel. Come on.

Drifter, number one. Toffee Crisp, number two. You must like a boost, then. I love a boost. I love a double-decker. I love a double-decker. They look very underrated. With that nougat, beautiful, beautiful texture.

Did you just say nougat? Nougat. Oh, my God. Nougat. Master Chef Critic mispronounces nougat nougat oh my god nougat master chef critic mispronounces nougat oh my god I love it

lion bars I thought that lion bars was too much going on rice krispies insurance favourite he dreams about lion bars as he told us on our podcast

what about Kit Kat chunky Kit Kat chunky orange remember when they whisper golds oh last year I had two very severe allergic reactions

and I ended up in A&E both times and I went to the doctor my wife quite understandably said what the hell is going on you need to get this checked out I went to the doctor and I did one of those allergy tests where they put 20 sort of pricks in your skin don't tell me now that I've just fed you something that you're allergic to

and he said you're allergic to birch pollen and something called mugwort. I've got no idea what mugwort is. And he said you shouldn't eat any nuts. And the thing is but he said it's alright to eat cooked hazelnuts cooked nuts and I've eaten lots of nuts since and I

can't identify what it is that I'm allergic to. But it seems that it's not hazelnuts because I'm still alive but if I die if I die between now and the podcast

going out and it's an allergic reaction I just want you guys to know I had a fantastic time and I the condition of the whole arrangement is that you've

both got to give speeches at the memorial oh stop it and talk about what a great I'm sorry. Vegetarian. You emailed us to tell us you were a fucking vegetarian,

but you didn't say that you had a potential deadly nut allergy. But the other thing is dermatolary is coming on. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, but we can't cook with nuts because his wife's allergic to them. So he might... They obviously kiss a lot still. They're like the only couple that still...

I know. I know. Have they had children? I know. Well, he does a lot of hugging, doesn't he? He does love a hug. So fair enough.

It's quite thoughtful. He's just the most considerate man in the world. I sort of think he's the kind of guy you'd like to be your mate or brother or something. We do ask every guest,

what is your worst table manner to experience when you're out for dinner in somebody else or do you have a bad table manner yourself i feel very strongly about this subject okay brilliant um i actually really despise i'm afraid to say the militancy of some english table manners when i went to um university up in Cambridge, I found this absolute galaxy of rules about how you, so small fork on the outside,

and obviously now I'm immersed in stuff, I've been in a restaurant. So did you have to do lots of formal dinners? I did some, I mean, I just, I didn't really care about the rules. Which college were you at? I was down in college,

and all the formality, luckily through people like Matt Bolton, I didn't have to, you know, I was able to be myself which is wonderful that I did turn up in corduroys

and I quickly abandoned them but I find I find table manners this is probably a terrible thing to say on a podcast called table manners but I find table manners

often a way of enforcing basically class differences and a way of excluding people on the grounds of them not knowing certain rules which I think are a poor basis on which to exclude them from your membership or whatever. So I don't...

So how do they hold their knives? You don't notice? I don't care. And also, I think it's to see in table manners. There's so much that is table manners. There's, you know, how do you hold your knife and fork? There's, you know, do you have your elbows on the table? And then there's, I think table manners is what kind of person are you at the table?

Do you listen? Do you, are you generous with your servings? There's so much more to the morality of being at a table than do you know etiquette? And I suppose that's the answer to your question i think etiquette in england is a way of making lots of people who aren't from certain backgrounds feel inferior and i think that that's the worst of table manners the best of table manners is being a loving generous person at the table and i think you can have a huge amount of table manners without necessarily having etiquette that is indeed what you have been tonight thank you so much for being here

it's been one of the great honours of my life I can't tell you how excited I've been about this as good as when you became the editor of the independent is it up there it's better your favourite meal favourite meal what would be yours well I speak as a vegetarian, but I would have a pepperoni pizza and a pina colada. Where would your... And I love... Do you like pepperoni pizza? I mean, I've had more pepperoni pizzas than you've had challah bread.

Trust me. I would have a double pepperoni pizza for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day for the rest of my life. There's different types of pizza. So are you going like dirty pizza or are you going thin crust? Dirty, obviously, but absolutely key

to the manufacture of pizzas is you've got to spread the tomato sauce towards the edge of the bread. I know, I agree. These people that turn up on these takeaways, £40 for two pizzas or whatever, and there's an inch and a half of crust.

I agree. Unblemished by tomato sauce, let alone the cheese. It's your best take. There's a very good Stroud Green Road Pizza Papagone. You can get a fantastic, apart from the, I mean, mango is the one thing that I'd want if it was a desert island, but you get a fantastic pepperoni pizza. You get a very good pina colada.

Nice and strong. Not too much ice. And tiramisu. You get the pina colada at the place. Pina colada. Yeah, yeah. Pina colada. You go to an Italian restaurant and you order a pina colada.

Absolutely right. When you're out on a date. Absolutely right. With my wife. Does she have a pina colada too? No, she's a very classy lady. Has a glass of wine. Glass of wine.

Gin and tonic. Something very smart yeah but she she tolerates you're there you're like Del Boy Del Boy's my hero all I've ever wanted

in my life is to be Del Boy I've watched every episode of Only Fool's Horses a thousand times we watched them

on repeat as a kid Del Boy and David Jason are the biggest influences in my life in the world and if I could get close to being as successful as him in the universe I'd be a happy man thanks so much I'm really glad we

learned about pina coladas and Del Boy basically being your hero it was such a pleasure and I hope Table Manners takes over the world because it's the best podcast in the world and to be a small part of it has been a great privilege. Mum, your savoury cheesecake was a massive hit. See, I told you. And I am not going to lie, I felt rather underwhelmed when I...

You heard about it. Yeah, and honestly, it was brilliant. Did you really like it? I really liked it. Yeah it's good isn't it? It's clever. It's really clever. Because it's actually like a cheesecake but not sweet. That's really really really good. Good. I think he enjoyed it. I think he did. I wanted him to eat a little bit more. I felt like he was holding back. Yeah. he was holding back. Yeah. He'd bring champagne though. He did bring champagne. Yeah. Good guess. And he could tell you story after story. I loved the story

about his mum and dad. It was so romantic. But I do feel like he was almost... Like a nita de sal. He was almost like interviewing us by the end. He's very good at his job. Oh yeah he knows what's what. And even though he's like a mate from South London, he's very good at his job. Oh, yeah. He knows what's what. And even though he's like a mate from South London, he's very good at his job. He kind of really turns it. He was like, but no, Lenny, you are. But yeah, he's very polite and chivalrous and respectful and fun.

And interesting. Thank you so much, Amal, for being on. Loved him. We've absolutely loved having you on it. And we did rinse his phone book. Did we? Yeah, for new guests. Did we? Yeah, we did. Thanks so much

for listening to Table Manners. If you like us, please subscribe and rate us and remember, we only accept five stars. Thank you. Excuse me. What? How do you subscribe? What do you mean when me. What? How do you subscribe? What do you mean when you say that? Just click subscribe.

I've never done that. How do you do that? Have you got your phone on you? No, but when I get it, because I do five stars every day, probably about eight times, and it says we've accepted your five stars. Do you put in different names?

No, it's always the same, and it always says... It always says... Subscribe. Oh, I haven't got that. Please, Mum, we may go shoot back to the top if you press subscribe.

Yeah, I probably will. I'll keep doing it. What's your username? I didn't know I had to have a username. I hope your five stars are still working. I just get it...

I get it on the thingy, on the podcast charts. I can so imagine Mum just going there, refresh five star that's what i do of course thank you we've got a lot of five stars about 500 the music you've listened to on table manners is by peter duffy and pete fraser and table manners is produced by cup and Nuzzle.

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