Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S2 Ep 6: Dermot O'Leary

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

Oh Dermot. Not since mum cooked for Ottolenghi has the Ware household been so flustered to host a guest. Utterly charming, definitely deserving of his ‘nicest man in showbiz’ tag and potentially the biggest secret foodie we’ve had so far. Points were only lost by not divulging the X Factor gossip that mum so desperately wanted. What a true professional. 9/10. Produced by Alice Williams for Cup and Nuzzle Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my dear mother. Why are you pulling a face? What? Because you've just been mean to me. Yeah, I'm saying it through gritted teeth. I didn't want to tell the listeners that, but yeah. My lack of enthusiasm. No, your like Stalin-esque kind of... Delegation. No, you're like Stalin-esque kind of... Delegation. Ruling. Okay. Someone needs to be in charge. I'm really glad I'm going on tour for two weeks

because you are doing my nut in. You may hear a rustle against your ears. That is me. I'm basically trying to do everything before I go on tour. I'm trying to get my grey hairs done, so bless Liz, my lovely hairstylist. Does she don't look like her being grey? Everyone knows.

It's warts and all, Mum. It's warts and all. Then why colour it? Touché. And we're back. So if you didn't listen to our George Ezra episode, there was an issue with the ribs. Yes, you didn't cook them properly.

Sam got the wrong cut. He didn't get the wrong cut. He got exactly the right cut, but he didn't get them chopped. Do you think that it was affected by them being in wine for four days because a mole had decided to be vegetarian. I think, yeah. And I think it's probably lucky we couldn't eat it because I think we would have died.

So if you didn't listen last week, we ended up getting takeaway. First time. First time. And we're still alive. We're still alive. We're still kicking. We're still going with the podcast.

And mum has decided to tell me who is boss and you've decided to do short ribs tonight. I just thought it's a horrible cold night and I just thought it'd be tasty and nice. I don't think we're going to need takeaway tonight. I hope not. They're already soft. To be fair, I'm a novice when it comes to cooking beef. And I messed up and I accept it. And I'm really looking forward to eating your short ribs. And I'm sure they're going to be much better.

You're good with lentils, darling. So what is the menu tonight, Mum? Because I have actually left it to you. So it's sticky beef short ribs with, I think, baked potato, cavolo nero. Oh, I'm first because Dermot wanted it he demanded demanded chicken soup my chicken soup so there's chicken soup with matzo balls I think it's one of the best things I can cook really I agree chicken soup is kind of integral to our family life really it has been you know it's been when I was young I had it every single Friday night chicken soup

and matzo balls the only thing that my mum would switch about was whether I had noodles in it or whether we had matzo balls in it we never have noodles in it you never do loction no but I prefer matzo balls but loction is great I mean it's something that you make for me if I get a cold which I frequently do, mum will bring emergency chicken soup around. And it helps. It really does. Jewish penicillin.

I know, it does really help. It's just so lovely. I never tire of it. I always love it. And it's good for everyone. And you can take some on tour for the baby. No, I know there's going to be none left. It's your best thing. Okay.

And then we brought in the old pastry chef, Dr. Ware. Yeah. And he's doing a what? A lemon tart? A lemon tart. Lemon and raspberry? A glazed lemon tart. You're going to be able to see your face in it.

Wow. What's happened? Come in, Dr. Ware. There was a minor disaster. I'm pleased nobody heard me screaming. Why? What happened? Thanks for coming.

What happened? Do you see this? The lemon mix spilled over the baked potatoes. Have you washed the baked potatoes? Yeah. Okay. They might taste a bit lemony. Saboteur! Those were my jacket potatoes!

That's all you've done? It's fine actually, I just burnt all my fingers in the process. Are you quite excited that Dermot O'Leary's coming? Yeah, because he's fit. Ollie! That's all we need, folks. And I hope he gives me some gossip about X Factor. That's all we want, isn't it? That's really what we want.

We have Dermot O'Leary coming on Table Manners. Stay tuned. He's here. I'm going to faint, I'm so excited. Hi! Oh my God, you're so sweet. Don't worry, I have my hair in like dye in about a second ago. I'm so excited. Oh thank you, I got the flowers Jess.

Thank you. We care so much about what we feed you that we go back and forth. I mean mum and I talk on the phone. I don't mean happy with anything. No, that's really sweet but you did ask. Chicken noodles. You did. But it's not noodles.

You haven't got noodles. But there's no nuts. Have you ever had a knaddle? No, I've had a kreplach. Oh, kreplach is gorgeous. It's like a dumpling. It's like pierogies. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, well, you aren't getting the loxian, but you're getting a canadal. Which is a matzo ball. Loxian is a noodle. Oh, yeah, perfect. Matzo ball you're having. Yeah. Yeah, you'll like them.

But, yeah, I mean, I asked you to be on this after we did that. It was like the day before Christmas. I was on your show and I basically just swooped in there. And this is what I do now. I do it at the Brits. I do it at Hooten and Angel. I do it when I go to work. I just try and pick people up.

And you said, yes, you'd do this only if mum did chicken soup. So this is what we've done. Yeah. So Dermot O'Leary, thank you. By the way, that wouldn't have been, it's my pleasure. No, no, no. I know, but you did say very enthusiastically that you would love to try the chicken soup.

So are you a bit of, do you call them, what would you call it, a Jewophile? New Jew, I'm Catholic, which is what I... New Catholic, new Jew. That's what I describe it as, new Jew. I love that. Are you confirmed in everything? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're Roman Catholic. Were you born in, I think I, yeah, yeah. You're Roman Catholic. Were you born in... I think I heard you talking once about your life. Were you born in... I was born over here. England. But your family are from Ireland. Wexford town, yeah.

Wexford. Right in the southeast. Did you ever go to the opera there? I did, yeah. It's wonderful. I know, it's wonderful. They do an opera festival. Oh really?

It's like a fringe festival. It's the most fantastic opera. So they specifically try and put on operas that aren't well known. Oh, wow. Yeah. So they've got a really big opera house. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's as good as Glyndebourne.

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really good. In fact, I went last year. What did you see? Yeah. Oh, God, what did I see? I went for a rehearsal.

Because the thing is, you can't... It's really hard to get tickets. Yeah, it's like Glyndebourne. A lot of people volunteer in the town. But it see? I went for a rehearsal. Because the thing is, you can't, it's really hard to get tickets. Yeah, it's like Gimbal. A lot of people volunteer in the town, but it's a big thing for the town. I can't remember what I went to go and see now. They often do the ring cycle. I'm really easily impressed when I go and see theatre or opera or anything like that. So I lose count of the amount of conversations I have when I go,

did you see so-and-so? I love the theatre. When I go, did you see so-and-so? They say, yeah, they go, so fantastic. Whoever I speak to, they go, I didn't enjoy it so much. And I can't compute. You don see so-and-so? I say, yeah, isn't it fantastic? Whoever I speak to, they go, I didn't enjoy it so much. And I can't compute.

You don't mind because you love it. Yeah, I love the experience. Yeah, me too. Do you go to the theatre a lot? Yeah, loads. What did you last see? What was the last thing?

I last saw The Girl from the North. Oh, I can't hear any more people talking about it. I'm so jealous. It's the best thing. I saw Glen Gary, Glen Ross. Oh, yeah, I saw your tweet. Was it good? Always be closing. Have you seen the Ferryman? I saw the Ferryman at the Royal Court.

But here's my thing about London. God, I'm so, I've lived here half my life and I'm very proud of being what I would consider to be in London and I really love that. I love the city. But things can come to London. Yes, I'd love some wine, thank you. Things can come to London, they can show, they can leave and you can never, I'd love some wine, thank you. Things can come to London, they can show, they can leave, and you can never know they've been here. Jessie, turn the soup off, darling, I think. Oh, my God, she's really hamming up her Jewish mother right now. Jessie says I've become like Stalin.

I don't mean to, but I don't want it ruined, for God's sake. Can you talk me through your soup game? What do you mean? Well, how do you make chicken soup? Okay. So you want to hear the story about this soup right the best way to make chicken soup is get a boiling hen yeah okay right the only place really you can buy boiling hens are from the kosher butchers yeah because they have them

all the time there aren't any in south london there's not where i live in the diaspora in south london there's no kosher butchers. So Sam went, Jesse ordered a boiling hen. Sam went and got it. Put it in the freezer because Jesse was coming over on Saturday with her baby who I was going to look after. Lovely. Right. We're going to start.

Get the chicken soup ready. Going. Get going. On Saturday? No, not Saturday. No, just get it. Have it there. This is how much we really We really care about our pasta.

Jessie forgot the chicken. The hen. To bring the hen. The hen, right. Sam then came the next day to pick up the baby. Didn't bring the hen either. So it had to be ubered over so I could cook it. So the hen has been ubered over.

So I'm going to cook it yesterday. It has to be... Because you have to cook it and it has to be because you have to cook it and let it go cold to skim the fat off the top and then you just boil the

hen no you put the boiling hen yeah you boil the hen you boil the hen but you boil it

with onions celery there's some celeriac in that some swede lots of carrots is that why this may be the best

soup of your life I thought this the smell was so delicious when I came in. Then what happens? Then you have to leave it to go cold and you have to fish everything out and then you really want to serve it as a clear soup. So you just save the little carrots that you've used

and then you get it really cold. So I put it outside this morning. Yeah, you skim the fat off Where does the chicken come in? There is no chicken in it It's a chicken, it's a hen No chicken in the soup I throw it away

But it's a once it's boiled it's not nice you wouldn't want to eat it Growing up in Essex were your family big foodie family? How many children? What's the kind of... Is there a Catholic dish?

It was kind of odd, if I'm honest, because my dad decided when I was about five years old that he wanted to be vegetarian. Uh-oh. So he went... You're not vegetarian, are you? No, but it meant therefore... He's pescatarian, so it meant therefore that very quickly,

because it's going to sound odd, but I'm sure you'll appreciate this. Your parents' generation, you couldn't really afford to give up meat, if that makes sense, even though meat's a cost. You couldn't afford to be vegetarian. It was their luxury to be vegetarian. Yeah, so he didn't have, when he was growing up,

he didn't, so if there was bacon and cabbage on, or if there was stew on, or it was, you know, my dad's one of five, and there was always a pot on in my granny's kitchen, and it was a lovely, welcoming, the smells were what you always remember, the peat fire, and the food in the kitchen, and I remember the gas stove,

because we didn't have a gas stove back home, so she'd turn on the gas stove, and put the kettle on the gas stove, because we didn't have a gas stove back home, so she'd turn on the gas stove and put the kettle on the gas stove, and that was always... So I had a very Irish upbringing in that... It was kind of odd, and I'm sure you had this as well with the Jewish thing, where when you live your life normally,

and I went to a Church of England primary school and I went to a Catholic secondary school, so it became a little bit more normal then. But as soon as you shut the door on a... Just to give you like backstory, backstory. My parents came over in 68, lived in London, sort of Irish London. And then my dad couldn't afford to buy a house in London and thought he probably wanted to bring his kids up outside London. So he moved out to, he was on the train to go and see an old auntie who decided to retire by the coast in a place called Brightlingsea, which is near Colchester.

Nice, really nice little village. And he was on a train and he saw this little village called Markstown, little building houses there. And he realised he could afford it. And he thought, well, I work in London now and I can commute and it's going to take me an hour, so let's move there. So we moved there and I was born pretty much just as we moved there. And then every summer...

What did he do, Dermot? He was a classic Irish kind of... He worked on the sites when he came over and then he summer he was a classic Irish kind of he worked on the sites when he came over and then he retrained he went to night school in business and then he went then he got a master's in business and then he worked for British Telecom for about 32 years so he became a manager it's interesting he never really was never really defined by his job my dad he was never you know it wasn't his passion but he what was What was his passion? He loves hurling, which is an Irish sport.

Hurling! He loves politics. We talk politics all the time. He loves history. Hurling is the fastest field sport in the world. It's 15 a side. It's amateur.

The Gaelic Games Association, which is the GAA in Ireland, which is a very political body. So they didn't allow English sports in Croke Park, which is a national stadium. They didn't allow anything. They didn't allow English sports in Croke Park, which is a national stadium. They didn't allow anything. They didn't allow concerts or anything

up until about the early 2000s. And then the tide changed, thankfully, I think. Which is a good thing. But he's a big... So, you know, they moved back to Ireland last year. They've moved back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're back now.

That's quite nice for you. It's wonderful. And it's a beautiful part of the world it is gorgeous Jesse do you know Dublin very well as well I mean I know

I always have a really good gig there but I never really get to would you not ever take the day off after the gig and then look around

and then I'd love to but you kind of don't get to choose when you're on the tour it's kind of they schedule it and they do that.

And then you go, oh, I've got a day off in, so I've got a day off in Warsaw on this next tour. And I've got a day off in Amsterdam. Yeah. And that's lovely. Yeah. But yeah, you don't get to choose. But yes, that would be great if I was maybe the Rolling Stones,

I'd be able to say I've got a day off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we saying the Heim? Yeah. The Heim. No, Schlunter. Schlunter. Schlunter.

That's the Irish term. Okay, Schlunter. What's it mean, actually? Just cheers. Cheers. Yeah. You play Seven Aside. Yeah.

My husband plays Seven Aside. Does he? He used to play on a Sunday, and I got rid of that as soon as we moved here. That was not fair. I said, no, you're not doing Sunday and Thursday, mate. Why night Sunday? Why? You want to watch him once.

I loved it. He used to play in a, like, Herne Hill. But being Thursday is a better night to play football. Is it? And then you get your weekend free. It's quite aggressive. Thursday's quite an aggressive one, isn't it? Is it power league?

Do you play Thursday? No. Yeah, I do. But we sort of get there with friends and pick teams. And then we sort of look at the power league going, Jesus, guys, calm down. So you just play together? Just a nice friend. So I was going to say, like, if people were playing against you, I wonder whether they'd be nice to you.

Yeah, I get quite aggy when I play sport as well. Oh, really? Not on that. And then your rep would go down. No, because Thursday's just a nice kick about. But when I play rugby, yeah, no.

So you're quite competitive. Not in life. You're aggressive. Not in life. No, not in life, but in sport. I used to be, I'm not really.

Okay, but like, how does that work, doing the X Factor? Do you feel like you get quite competitive? I take the job seriously. Like, I prep all the time.

I just prep, prep, prep. Sometimes prep too much. Like, any live telly, I prep. But like, within prep all the time. I just prep, prep, prep. Sometimes prep too much. Like, any live telly, I prep. But, like... Within an inch of my life.

When you say prep... So, when stuff goes wrong, you can handle it. Okay. Well, like live TV. Yeah. Yeah, I bet it's a nightmare. So, the final of The X Factor. Yeah.

Which was at Excel, which is an odd venue. So, we were at Excel. And I came on stage. And for the first five minutes i had no water queue oh you're all right you could keep going because i prepped if i hadn't prepped i'd be in a world of pain but all i thought was well i know roughly where i'm going for the next five minutes and then i never go there and then i guess i'll sort of know what to say and you know and it was all right because you know producer's very good in my earpiece and then he realised

quite quickly and we just all busted together and it's fine but if I'd have gone out there ill prepared then I'd have been in the car quite a bit

do you like it now it's a bit Simon's nicer oh yeah I preferred it before you see so I hate the six chair

I hate the six chair challenge I think it's a waste of time I think that's really unkind I think it's un waste of time. I think that's really unkind. I think it's unkind as well. It's unkind, but I loved it. I preferred it when it was nasty, but you don't like the six chair challenge. But if someone sings really shit,

you should say they really sound shit. To be honest. Well, I... They're not going to get... You see, sometimes I wonder about that. Do you have to say it like that, Mum? I do think he's... No.

Look, Simon's one of the most honest people you'll meet when it comes to feedback, when someone comes... Yeah, he is, but not always. Not if it's his group. Yeah, but no, he's not going to pick anyone that's... He never picks anyone that's bad. No. And I think with the six-year challenge,

I was uncomfortable with it, and I've said it publicly. But I think as the show's evolved, I think people now... Kind of like it. Well, publicly but I think as the show's evolved I think people now what I've kind of like it well no I think I think punters that go out and actually do it know what to expect so I feel a lot more at ease with it than I do well people expect it as well well yeah they're less disappointed when they get do you decide every year we might change it up this year yeah I'm not I mean they sort of asked my opinion

but did you watch the year that you were out I was in South Africa for three months good for you working so I

sensible yeah well that was just sort of serendipitous really so I didn't really get a chance to watch it

but I I watched some I was here for some of the early stuff and I went out on Saturdays because I just thought you know what

it's the first opportunity I've had in a hundred years to actually go out but also you do a radio too which I've been on and thank you very much

Saturday mornings like your weekends are buggered basically you work like do you take Monday and Tuesday as your

try to yeah and like how does that work well Monday ends up turning into an admin day how does that work with your wife we've always we've always been freelance and as soon as we got together

we got together where did you meet her she was working in the same production company I was just starting out as a host and she was production secretary the same production company I was just starting out as a host and she was production secretary

T4 no this was after this was a show called Recovered me and my mate Drew came out with this idea called Recovered and it was just

you'd have loved it you'd come on do one of your own songs quick interview and then you'd cover another song it was just it was a lovely TV show

it was really nice so we had some really good people and we had basically your good people. Yeah. And we had... Basically your radio show. Lovely, yeah. And then I nicked the idea

of my radio show. And it was just a really sweet, simple, half an hour maybe, maybe longer, show. We filmed it in Hammersmith and she was working on that.

We met on that. We met on that show. We need to eat something. Yeah. So we can just eat the first course, which is the chicken soup. Because I feel like, you know, we can't keep up. No, I'll do it. You sit. All right. Darling, make sure it's hot enough and get nice bowls.

I was going to bring my white plates, but I couldn't. Right. Okay, Mum, do you want two canadals or one? Yeah, two, darling. What spoon should I use? Well, look, Jessie doesn't have soup spoons, so just use the biggest one. I have a soup spoon. Sorry. Jessie, I'm buying you...

It all tastes the same, and it's going to fucking taste the same the way you spoon it, isn't it? Sorry, darling. It tastes so nice. Thank you. Well, I mean, mum... Oh.

Hopefully this will cure your back pains. I know you're Irish Catholic, but you get, like, you've got the... You get it. I feel a big affinity, I think. You do. I think we're a family. you get like you've got the Jewish like it's I feel a big affinity I think you do I think we're a family

why do you think it is well going back to your my dad so my dad gave up wow this is going everywhere isn't it no it's fine my dad

so we gave up meat and fish became a thing a big thing in our family and then you know with the Irish family

every second week we'd be in London seeing family and then that was always kind of a big roast know with the Irish family every second week would be in London seeing family and then that was always kind of big roast dinner because the Irish always go vegetable soup roast beef and apple pie that is the standard if you ever go to an Irish do those are the things you always do it's the same in a Jewish do yeah and um and so every second week would either go and watch him play hurling or we'd go up and see my auntie in Queen's Park and we'd just watch musicals all day and we'd go to the park and you know, so I sort of yeah it's lovely and then we'd travel back and I was talking to a friend about this last night. We'd travel back in the car and we had an estate car

I mean my sister could get into the sleeping bag. This is before anyone cared whether you put kids in seatbelts and stuff. And I used to remember that's when I fell in love with London because I would drive back and I'd just watch the just to get into sleeping bags. This is before anyone cared whether you put kids in seatbelts and stuff. And I used to remember, and that's when I fell in love with London, because I would drive back and I'd just watch the streetlights and the stars and stuff. And I was like, I'm going to live here one day.

Yeah, so I've always felt a big affinity to London. So I've always kind of felt three places at home. Ireland feels like a spiritual home, because I do feel at home when I go there. And then London feels like properly my, I guess my proper home. So where did the Jews come in? And then growing up in Colchester.

I think, I don't know, I don't know where the I guess I love the tradition of it. I think the Irish and the Jewish sense of humour is pretty similar. Right, okay, sorry, I'm going to do this. You can take some home. Do you like it? It's outstanding. Take some home for D. I can take some home for me.

We don't. But back to food. You were talking about your dad becoming a vegetarian. So you were brought up kind of as a vegetarian? As a sort of... Pescatarian. Yeah, not really. I mean, we had meat because my dad would commute,

so he would get back sort of later from time to time. When we were 14, my mum went back to work. She worked at a local sports centre. And so she taught us how to cook. So quite quickly, food became a thing. Right. And I really enjoyed it. I went through a period.

I failed all my GCSEs the first time around, which is quite hard. How did you manage that? I'm an idiot. I'm easily distracted. What were you distracted by? Two people in the corner. I'd be there. What are they talking about? Anyway so I my dad said to me so that we're gonna give it another crack. We're on to number two. Ed Sheeran is the leader for servings

by the way. Not of chicken soup. He had four sausages. And these were like foot long sausages. Dermot O'Leary's on number two of chicken soup. He was a lovely guy. Was he really? Ed and me actually have very similar upbringings because his

family are from Wexford and then they moved to Framlingham which is only around the corner from where we're from where i grew up so we've talked to her before yeah yeah yeah it's a lovely guy yeah very good guy um so yes she taught us how to cook so oh that's so nice you thank you so very quickly um food became a thing and i did my work experience in a local restaurant what like what food were they it's called the Bistro 9 oh yeah

yeah yeah yeah so what kind of like what steak Diane oh old school kind of yeah just a real kind of

old school 70s style French Bistro so I fell in love with that industry that industry ticks a lot of the same boxes as working in telly

what really food highly stressful you get one chance to get it right okay okay industry that industry ticks a lot of the same boxes as working in telly what really food one chance to get it right okay okay so you front of house in a restaurant i love being a waiter but loved it love working in the kitchen front of house in the restaurant and then i paid my way to university when i was at university middlesex i paid my way to university by being a barman so how did you get from doing politics and media yeah to being a fabulous presenter she's very good no no i love you i love you the best um um i graduated

from middlesex and i went straight to america to my last student loan i thought i'm gonna go and travel just on my own so i went around amer America on my own by train for three months. And I loved it. And I got back and I thought, right, what do you want to do? And I really wanted to work in telly. And I thought I'd really like to be a host. So you thought you'd like to be a host? Oh, I'd love to do this.

Okay, so you thought. Didn't think it was possible? No. I mean, it's a... But had you performed or been front of house? Oh, I did a bit of drama at school. Okay. So I'd done sort of up to GCSE

I've done drama and I really, really loved it and I probably should have done it at A-level. I do want to ask you though. Hey, open that wine. I want to see what you think of it. Oh, okay, yeah, sorry.

Only if you want to. No, definitely. No, definitely. Okay, so Dermot has brought oh, you brought okay, an Italian wine. Yeah. I'm thinking you love Italian wine

because you have a place in Italy. A little bit. Is this where it's from? I like Italian and French wines probably my favourite. So is this where you explain anything about this wine? Because to be honest,

I just like stuff that's... I don't know what I like, but whenever I try an expensive bottle, I never seem to like it. I think this should be a Sangiovese. Tell me what... I don't know anything, so... I've started collecting a little bit.

Do you use that app? What's that app? Vivino. I love Vivino. You got Vivino? I'm going to get it because everyone... You got Vivino? I have had Vivino. You got Vavino? I'm going to get it because everyone... You got Vavino? I have had Vavino, sometimes I use it and sometimes I don't.

Do you want a Vavino now? It's a Chianti but it's a... I'm a member of the Wine Society. No, that's a fancy one. Oh I got that as a wedding present, it's really good a present. Yeah, it's lovely. Yeah. Lovely. You wanted to be a chef then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So is that why you failed your GCSEs? No. No, but after I failed my GCSEs, my dad said,

yeah, do you want to, let's do them again. And if you do them again and it goes well, then we'll do A-levels. If not, you've got to think about what you want to do. And I was like, if I fail next time, I'm just going to, I definitely want to be a chef. Do you cook a lot? Four or five want to do and I was like if I fail next time I'm just going to I definitely want to be a chef do you cook a lot? four or five times a week

I'd say okay what was the last thing you cooked? alright so we had a couple of mates around on Saturday night and I bought some halibut and I cooked

and I pan fried that and then got it over the line in the oven and then I did I did some sort of crushed potatoes with that and then I did there's this place in LA called

Jolena so I had their cookbook they do this lovely chargrilled broccoli broccolini and then I did their dressing with that is red wine vinegar and garlic and chilli so I did that

and then that was the and chili so I did that. Yeah, good. Yeah. And then that was the side and then I did like a classic kind of Italian sort of parsley lemon. You just can't go wrong with parsley and lemon. And a little bit of butter, a little bit of olive oil and a little bit of water. Lovely. And I emulsified that a little bit and then over the fish. Did you do a pud?

Really simple. Did they bring pud? Cheese. Cheese. Oh so you're, are you, have you got more of a savoury cheese than a sweet cheese? No, I like a little bit of sweet stuff. But I don't cook desserts enough. I need to.

So where do you... I mean, you like to cook, but where do you eat out in London? I know that's an annoying question, but some of your go-tos. Okay, so... We eat a lot of fish out, so I love the old school fish restaurants.

I'm so annoyed that we didn't do the salmon tonight. No, I'm glad you didn't. No, I'm glad we didn't actually, Jesse. I'm glad you didn't. Okay, well, when you were going to have a lighter dinner, we were going to do salmon. Now you're having ribs. I'm glad I haven't.

I'm glad we're doing ribs. Okay, fine. All right, fine. I did, I love Bentley's. That's a lovely old school, Bentley's. It's a really lovely old school fish restaurant. We go, Irish guy called Richard Corrigan

took it on a while ago and it's one of those restaurants that's been there for like hundreds of years but then he took it on as kind of like, it's a really fun place to eat now. Downstairs, upstairs is a little bit stuffy for me

but downstairs I love. And it's on Swallow Street, that's Mayfair. I love those old, Scots. I like Scots. Scots and Sheikis are the two kind of old classics.

I've never been to Joe Sheikis. Oh, Joe Sheikis is great. Yeah, I'd like to go there. But like Scots, I went with my manager and I thought it was such good food. Oh, it's wonderful, isn't it? Me and my friends do a supper club every three months. And then it was my turn to host last summer. And then recently I'd taken my team out for dinner once a year,

just after Christmas. We don't do it for Christmas, we do it after Christmas. So I hired this place. It's called the London Shell Company. And it's a boat. And they go from Paddington Basin up to Camden and back in three hours. And you don't have to hire the boat. And they do a five-course fish menu. And it's always lovely inside.

It's all sort of farrow and bald and you know yeah it's really lovely how did you find out about this do you know the strangest thing they put a flyer

through my door oh my god I know when does that ever happen and it was delicious and it was terrific yeah

that's such a good idea lovely guy called Harry and his sister Leah that's great yeah so hon you do a supper club? Yeah, once every three months.

Once every three months? Yeah. How many are in your supper club? About 12. And you just rotate? Yeah. And normally, we have to decide... You're a real foodie.

We decide who does... I am, yeah. We decide who does the... Shit, Jessie. I know. Shit. We decide who does the next supper club. During the next...

During that supper club. During the dinner. Wow, this looks incredible. I love that he's like a fish person. We've given him short ribs. No, I'm a big meat guy as well. I love going to rules. That's so funny.

We were just talking about the martini lounge. Oh, it's nice. Martini bar there. I've never been. How many can we eat of these ribs? I'll just, I'll have one, Mum. Do you want to introduce what you're having? This is sticky beef short ribs.

I hope it's all right. Now talk me through this. Is this a traditional dish? No, it isn't. No. Oh. I just like short ribs, because I love short ribs.

Why do you love short ribs so much? I just think they're really sweet and nice, and I think they cook well and they're inexpensive and these are from Gingerpig their sausages are the best sausages you've ever had they're probably about

£3 each but they are wonderful so I got them for the Ed Sheeran podcast and they're courses the meat courses so I've done the pork the beef

and the lamb have you and the sausage course yeah it's really good you've been on all of these courses god beef is unbelievable

you are like a real yeah aren't I god you've totally validated it so like would you ever open a restaurant I have we had a restaurant

for seven years it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life really yeah don't the first restaurant

in Brighton it was so difficult. Did you think it was going to be much more fun than it was? Yeah, it was much more. The first three years were a lot of fun. Do you want to tell me more of what happened? No, it was so nice, thank you. And then life happened.

And then we weren't the bright young thing in Brighton anymore. And then one of my partners left. And then I sort of had to be involved in it a bit more than I thought I was going to. What was it called? It was called Fishy Fishy. And then... Whereabouts was it? It was in East Street in Brighton.

It was lovely. It was a great location. And then we went to... Thank you. And then business rates went up and then it got to a point where you just go, do you know what? We can't really pass these costs on

and we're not making any more money and so we just decided to call it a day. So you wouldn't open another restaurant? I never say never, because I did. There were parts of it that really excited me. But you've got to get right all the time. It can't be something you do and you dip in and out of it. It's got to be something you do

and the people you're with are in it for the long haul. You've got to have people that you can completely rely on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to know what you eat for breakfast. A lot of porridge. Okay. I'm hungry as soon as I wake up. Right, okay.

I know that. And then I, but then I exercise. Not straight away. Tell me what you do. But early doors. So you have porridge and then you go and exercise. No, I can't eat before. So where do you exercise?

A friend of mine, really odd. So my friend Sid, who's my producer on X Factor we would be travelling like UK or away or wherever and we'd have

so we'd have a lot of hotel breakfast and we'd be eating hotel breakfast and then I'd go what are you going to do before call time so call time was

like one o'clock in the afternoon and he'd go I'm going to go for a run in a minute and I'd go what we just had eggs

what are you and he'd go no I'll be fine in about 45 minutes for me it takes two to three hours to... So I get up in the morning. Now, if I'm going to exercise,

then I'll have espresso and banana and some yoghurt and leave it a couple of hours and then exercise. And then I'll come back and I'm quite hungry. Or if I'm not going to exercise, so this morning I didn't exercise, but tomorrow I will be. Do you exercise every day? Every second day or third day.

And then tomorrow, I'll train tomorrow. And so I'll get up early and have an espresso. And how long do you train for? Cereal or... So you're kind of like the bulletproof thing you kind of do. You never try the bulletproof? No, what's that? Okay, so you have coffee in the morning and you have it with this oil.

I think it's like a collagen booster or something or whatever. And then you put ghee or like grass-fed butter or coconut oil in. You whiz it up and it stops you being hungry. Oh, right. And it makes you far more effective. It made me really focused and it makes you train harder. Work and training. Did it work for you?

Yeah, it did. I mean, I definitely... But then my trainer was like, have a protein shake after you work out. But I definitely felt really focused. Yeah. And it fills you up and it kind of tastes almost like a latte.

Oh, that's good. But it's really, really supposed to really help your concentration. You should maybe try it just because if you like the espresso thing and it feels... It's a bit weird thinking that you're going to have

butter in your coffee but it's kind of delicious I love coffee okay so you were a runner on Light Lunch yeah oh that was a great Melon Sue

that was terrific no I was a researcher on Light Lunch that was terrific okay because we had a big kind of catering truck

out the back and people were coming and wonderful chefs were coming every day like Jean-Christophe Novelli and James Martin and people would come in and wonderful chefs would come in every day like Jean-Christophe Novelli and James Martin and people, you know,

you would get these kind of great, I guess that first generation of TV chefs, like the first kind of post-Keith Floyd generation of TV chefs and so we'd have this homemade team that would always be cooking up this stuff. So after, Great.

Yeah, so after we finished the show, Everyone ate. Everyone ate and everyone ate well. I remember eating goose for the first time. Linda Allen cooked goose. I was just, I remember,

it was just this marvel kind of going on in your mouth. It was lovely. It was a really special time, actually. I've got some, I think lunch and T4 are the two things I've done where I still have that same group of friends. They're still my friends, really. Really?

Yeah. It was a fun, I mean, I watched T4. It felt like the coolest gig to have. Who was on it? Who was on T4? Nick Grimshaw was on it, right? Yeah, Grimshaw was on After Us. Jamina Jamal.

Jamina Jamal. Makita. He's now a big actress. Yeah, she's doing well, isn't she? Yeah. In the States. I started with me, Ben Shepard, Margarita Taylor. Ben Shepard?

Margarita Taylor? Where's Margarita? June Sarpol. Capital, isn't sheepard, Margarita Taylor. Ben Shepard? Yeah, he did. Where's Margarita? June Sarpol. Capital, yeah? Oh, she's called June Sarpol, yeah. And then when we... Yeah, we were, yeah. Yeah, that was almost 20 years ago. Was it music?

It was a magazine programme. Yeah, it was over TV. So we started, and it was my first live gig, and Andy Peters was our boss, commissioning editor, and director and producer. And Andy was a great producer, so he taught us a lot. You always have to wear talkback, so you're in ear. It always has to be open so you hear everything.

He insisted on it, so if anything ever goes wrong, you can deal with it. So you're not on Switch, so you either have switch where they press a button and you will hear what they want you to hear. When you have open, we hear everything. So anyone that walks into the gallery, you hear them. You hear people coming down. Even when you're presenting?

All the time. Do you still do that? Yeah, I've got five, six voices in my ear once. Yeah, it's quite full on. And he insisted on it. That's actually serious training yeah he was really strict like couldn't shoe on the floor

couldn't shoe gum on the floor didn't like didn't like you wearing black weirdly oh right yeah really odd but a really good producer very good commissioning editor

and a really good studio director like he's filmed music really well too I find that so interesting I know you have like but you have six people

in your yeah you've got your director your producer your script supervisor and then you've also got to interview somebody that's right next to you. But is X Factor your dream? If you were thinking when you were starting out...

I'd love a talk show. I'd love interviewing people. Yeah, I think you should have a talk show. Why don't you have a talk show? Because I think... I don't know. Because I... Look, talk shows...

Why don't you do your own talk show? I'd like to do that. Table Manners, this is the podcast what is your worst table manner about other people or do you not actually mind

how people are phones phones sorry oh my god I've got my phone right there and it's been going off

all the time it's when no I don't mind about that it's just different I think when you're out I think home is slightly different

when you're out if people start looking at a phone if you've got a work call I get it no I don't some people work to work i get it people are talking if you have if you're having dinner with someone and they start checking their instagram or something that's just so you did it in the savoy and jesse did it did i did i yeah okay thank you very much um i'm not a massive fan of people eating whilst walking.

Oh. Don't you ever do it? You don't like a pret a manger? A gentleman is allowed to have an ice cream when he's walking. Okay, but a girl, a woman, a lady? Oh, she can do what she likes. Okay, right. But a gentleman.

Okay, right. But you don't want them stuffing your pie in there? Oh, no, no, no, no. Sit down for a second. A good Greggs. Just save her the moment. But you don't want them stuffing your pie in there. Oh, no, no, no, no. Sit down for a second. Just save it a moment. But you can't sit in Greg's. Then stand in Greg's. It's a big pie.

Can you call your brother down to sort the pud? Okay, so we're a bit worried it's slightly burnt. No, it isn't burnt, darling. It's got sugar in the pastry. It's caramelised. It might be a bit burnt. But you don't have to tell everyone right alex

my face i can nearly see you know what when you make a mistake you don't draw attention to it i'm not going to serve it i I will serve it. Alex is basically... I've never made pastry in my life. This is his room. That is a bit funny. Okay good luck Alex. Oh Alex is great. It's good. Your pastry is not bad. It's butter. I love it. It should be. It's got a real zing to it too. It's got 450ml of lemon juice in it. That's quite a lot right? Alex, it's actually good. Shall we say why the baked potato taste is so good? It's because Alex spilt a lot of the lemon on the baked potatoes apparently yeah

final question before we release you to go back to Dee we would have loved to have had you Dee yeah I'd love to last supper

yeah before you're going on a diet how many courses you can have whatever you like you're going to die so you can have whatever you like. You're going to die. So you can have whatever you want.

Jessie, I don't like the die thing. Okay, you're never going to eat again. You're going away for six months. I'm happy. Let's just go dying. Yeah. All right. I'd have Norwegian prawns.

Okay. Just half point of those. They are taken from the fjords. And they are... I'm not a massive fan of a warm water prawn. You know, like a really cold... Like a massive fan of a warm water prawn, you know, like a really cold, like a Canadian prawn or a Greenland prawn, you know.

And Norwegians love their prawns, to be a Norwegian prawn. And I probably have that with like a, a Muscadet, like a, I love all that West Coast, all the way, all European West Coast wines.

So whether it's anything from, Oh, we're going wine pairing. No one's done this yet. I like this. anything Guari all the way down through to like an Albarino

or Sancerre up top yeah and then I'd go in season sweet corn just a really simple a cob yeah

I love sweet corn would you have it with butter or would you have it with there's a place in New York called Cafe Havana yeah and you have it with the parmesan

well there's like the white cheese. Right. Have you been? The lime, no. But I know where it is, and I've had it on the, like, stall. You literally go, and you see the whole menu, and there's a really good menu. And it's just sweet corn.

And you just go, and be told to order the sweet corn by anyone that goes there. And you go, come on, man, really? Barbecue. And you go, okay, fine, I'll take it. And it's just, it's unbelievable. That is a good one, actually. For about $5.'ll take it. And it's just, it's unbelievable. That is a good one, actually. For about $5.

It's tasty. It's just too, it's unbelievable. And then I'd probably have a fish that would probably be John Dory or mackerel or, yeah, probably those two. With? Oh, with, yeah, Jersey Royals. Okay. This was what we were going to bloody cook him tonight.

Anyway, okay. Yeah, we were. Fine, fine. It's freezing cold outside. Fine, fine. It's freezing cold outside. Fine, okay. We needed to do salmon. It was so nice. Actually, you could have gotten a weave in salmon.

And then I'll finish up with Jesse, where's he been? Oh, God, he's such a charmer. Don't be leery. You've been, I know, well, I did do a really good one. I did it with stem ginger and poached nectarines and apricots in like musket. And it just worked. it was easy, it worked thank you so much for being on Table Manners I loved it

you've been like the biggest foodie I think you've had, really? that's so nice, thanks Gail I loved it, no pleasure and I can't wait to hear a podcast or a talk show what do we say Irish? Slainte but L'chaim thank you, we didn't have enough gossip to hear a podcast or a talk show. What do we say, Irish? Shloyta. Shloyta.

Shloyta. But L'Chaim. L'Chaim. Thank you. We didn't have enough gossip. No, I know. We're not gossip. No, we didn't.

This isn't gossip. I feel like it's gossip. Oh, damn it. No, we can do better than this. There we go. Turn the mic off. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you, Dan.

Jessie. Yeah. Thank you, Dermot. Jessie? Yeah? I think we should have made more effort with the food. I didn't know we had, like, a superfoodie on. That was like a booby trap. I know. He does supper club, Mum. And he really likes fish.

I know, sorry. Like, everything was fish. Everything in his last meal is fish I know and he had a fish restaurant called Fishy Fish I know but he did get stuck into the short ribs I feel like he would you know he's just a

nice guy yeah we will never know whether Dermot liked our sticky ribs or not that's true because he was always going to eat them however I do think he loved the chicken soup. Darling, I know what I'm doing. Like he was cupping that bowl and like one of the three bears. That was good.

Can I just say, he's more handsome in real life. Oh yeah. And did you get the hug? The hug. Mum, did you feel his arms? He is the best hugger. No, yeah. Yeah, very strong. hug? The hug. Mum, but did you feel his arms? He is the best hugger. No, yeah. Yeah.

He holds on very strong. He works out. Yeah. But he does do the best hugs ever. Yeah. He's the most delightful person. I know. Would have liked a bit more goss, wouldn't you?

Definitely want to know about Simon. You should have said off the record more, Mum. I couldn't do that, darling, because I didn't feel I wanted to compromise him. I just didn't want to be that nosy. I feel like we've just had our biggest foodie. And you did baked potatoes. You said, oh, it doesn't matter.

Mum, there's nothing wrong with a baked potato. I think it actually really complemented the sticky ribs. Do you? Yeah. Nothing wrong with a baked potato. We started off with Jewish. We went into louisiana and we left via paris

thank you so much for listening to table manners it's been a pleasure to have derma o'leary on the show uh i've been Jessie Ware and... You know the score. You're supposed to introduce yourself now. I know you don't. It's season two. Don't do that, darling. You say goodnight from my mum, then bye-bye.

Well, mum, I thought you were versatile. Because people might not be listening at night. Okay, you've been listening to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware, and I'm still here with my mum. Penny. Okay, you still haven't to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware, and I'm still here with my mum. Penny. Okay, you still haven't got the hang of this. It's driving me mad.

You should know better. Did you see how I just, like, rolled off the tongue now for me? I know, but did you see how Dermot lent into the... He knew. ...the microphone? He was a professional. He knew.

I know. You could learn a lot from him. And me. I'm not going to be a radio presenter though am I you never know maybe thank you so much for listening oh man I feel very full

do you I do did you not like the food I did like it it's just I think we need to go lighter next time okay darling it's quite heavy I know it's winter

it's not heavy you only had one little bit I think we need spring to come so I can have something lighter springy thank you so much for listening say goodbye to your fans mum bye

the music you've been listening to on Table Manners was composed by Peter Duffy and Peter Fraser the production has been done by cup and nozzle please subscribe and if you like it please rate us five stars and if you don't like it sod off don't be mean Bye.