Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S4 Ep 1: Nigella Lawson

Episode Date: October 10, 2018

Table Manners is back!! And what better way to start series 4 than with the ultimate kitchen goddess… Nigella Lawson. She has been top of our list since day one, so brace yourselves for mum and me melting over her. We talk midnight snacks, her being a fussy eater as a child (there’s hope for all our children), eating rice pudding for breakfast...and apart from her love of Vegemite, she can do no wrong. Table Manners is served! Enjoy! Produced by Alice Williams Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back or hello for the first time to Table Manners. This is season four and this is the beginning of this season so we thought who better to kick it off than the kitchen goddess. A sensational woman. Somebody we have wanted from the beginning. Yes. What? Give me something for my sport this is the first time this is the first time we've put makeup on for the podcast she's a goddess darling just give me a bit for that nose because i don't want to focus on my i don't think she's going to be focused mom it's non-existent tiny bit that's it so uh how excited are you about Nigella? I'm excited and a bit nervous as well, to be honest. Not often we get a goddess in our kitchen.

You know, they don't call her a chef on... They call her a cook. A gourmet. I've never heard that one. Mum, how are you? I'm fine, darling. Are you still enjoying your life as a podcaster? I love it, darling. Mum, we are up? I'm fine, darling. Are you still enjoying your life as a podcaster? I love it, darling.

Mum, we are up for two arias. I know. This is amazing. I know. I don't know what I'm going to wear, though. I don't either. Dressing a bump is really difficult. I don't know whether it's... Jessie, tell the listeners.

Yeah, I'm pregnant, and so what better thing to do than present a podcast about food and get pretty slap up meals every week for the next 10 weeks. Mum, we've gone back and forth on this menu for months. Darling. We've kind of imagined this menu. How much have you done for this menu? Mum, I am the bait.

No, you've been the... What have you been, darling? Your brother has done everything. Thank God he was off work today. I mashed the bait. No, you've been the... What have you been, darling? The supportive... Your brother has done everything. Thank God he was off work today. I mashed the celeriac. Yeah. He's had to put it in a dish so it looks presentable.

You know, I like to call myself the kind of Rick Rubin of this. I exec it. Yeah, you certainly do. Can I ask you, are we going to serve it on a plate before she sits down? No, I think that's a bit like desperate. It's like, hi, we've got food for you. No, I don't mean like that. We'll plate it up as if we're in a restaurant, right?

I mean, whatever, Mum. I don't think Nigella's going to mind. Can you just take us through the drama of the cocoa beans? Right. So I first tasted cocoa beans in Spring Restaurant. Which we love. Which is one of my very favourite restaurants. I've been three times this year already because I love it so much. It's in Somerset House.

Somerset House and it's just the most beautiful. So I tasted cocoa beans, which were delicious little brown beans. And I thought these were fabulous. What did they come with? Lamb. So I thought it'd be perfect to have with lamb I've never had cocoa beans apart right so I couldn't find them on the internet so I rang spring restaurant and asked them where do they get their cocoa beans from and they said from Natura and the lady couldn't have been more helpful because she even told me how she thought I should cook them and so I ordered them picked them up yesterday

along with the rainbow chard and the celeriac yeah and then brought and I said oh this is odd because they're white not brown she says they'll go brown when you cook them but they didn't go brown they're just white they look like haricot beans but only the best for Nigella only the best seven pounds for a packet of beans and they've not gone brown and we really said to cut up the rainbow charge stalks and they look horrendous i can't serve those i can just serve a bit of the leaf not the rainbows the stalks you can have the stalks she can't thank you all right and then um we couldn't source blackberries because nobody else had them, not even... Apart from M&S?

M&S. Always. Good old M&S. Love M&S. I love M&S. Alex has done a dummy run. I know, he's made two. I know.

He must have spent all day on it. But can't we persuade him to stay? I love having an OCD, brother. Can't we persuade him to stay? He doesn't want to. It's a bit like when Jay Rayner was on. He said he didn't want to meet his idols. He does want to meet Nigella, though.

He used to watch Nigella on TV. All her programmes. You know, there's like almost a whole station devoted to Nigella. Do you know who else is very keen on her? Who? All the Greeks. Oh, really? They all watch Nigella in Greece.

She's super famous. I think she's famous watch Nigella in Greece. She's super famous. I think she's famous everywhere, Mum. Yeah. She's here. Shit. Shit. Right. Fuck.

Wish I'd made more effort. We have... Are you sick of being called a goddess? Or it ever get does it get boring um it's what it gets boring but i feel you know fraudulent because i so not oh so not a goddess you absolutely are we have the goddess that is nigella lordson at my mom's house thank you so much for being on it's so nice to be here here thanks for coming now so okay you kindly brought a candle

yes so Alex because my mum basically we were like searing the lamb we're having

lamb tonight and we were searing the lamb before mum's like it smells like a bloody

kebab house nothing wrong in that nothing wrong but she and then mum was like

going to light a candle and Alex said no no no you can't do that

you can't have a scented candle if you're going to eat food no I think that said no no you can't do that you can't have a scented candle if you're going to eat food no i think that's right not in the kitchen not not around food but i think you could if you wanted one say over there but i think not around food because you just want to smell the food you're right so i'm quite happy but i've got an open i've got an open but doesn't smell like a grab shop but um i i've got an open plan sort of one big room so I do have scented candles in there but they tend not

you know I mean they don't waft far enough to where I'm going to eat what have you been doing today well I got back from Greece last night and I have been doing all the things that pile up I mean I wasn't away that long it's like one week but all the things that pile up. I mean, I wasn't away that long. It's like one week. But all the things that pile up. And I've managed some writing. It's funny that you brought up Greece. Because we go to Greece every year. Yeah.

And mum was saying about how huge you are in Greece. You're massive. Were you there just on holiday? Well, sort of. I went to a wedding first. And then I've got a friend who comes from Mykonos. Oh, nice. Were you in Mykonos? So I was in Mykonos, too, but I wasn't doing any of the things that people do in Mykonos,

because I was just sitting on his veranda, speaking to his sisters, doing things, meeting his friends there. And they kept making plans to go out, and I said, oh, I just can't. Well, it just didn't fancy it. I went a bit. You know, I just felt like, I don't know, I'm not really someone who wants to go dancing before in the morning. Dancing, yeah. Although I did do a lot of that for the wedding.

Did you eat good food there? Because I hear the Mykonos food's really good there, a bit more fancy schmance. Well, I did eat good food, but also because I was, you know, you eat the best food in people's houses. And so I ate at people's houses because i was with i mean no just people who are okay you know great um no when i was in my course you know this friend of mine is a very good cook and he lives in mcdonough he's in london mostly but you know goes back to mcdonough's and his friends are good cooks and so it was you know really great nice and you can buy lovely tomato everything tastes delicious the cucumbers taste of cucumbers and the melons smell the most

incredible capers oh yes fermented they've just been put fresh in a plastic bottle with lots of salt until all the liquid the salt and the capers all turn into liquid. And there's foam. Oh, they're so good. Do you think you'd be able to make them here or would they just never? Well, we can't get fresh capers here. Right, okay. But there, they can pick them. I mean, it was, I think...

But Chrysoula's always got jars with things in the bottom, fruits or vegetables with some sort of liquid on the top. Well, you can do that. In the sun. Yes, you can do that here you can do that here but you know you have to get the ingredients but you know the greeks are so wonderful and hospitable i you know just you only have to talk to them they start slicing a sausage and they're putting some bit of put a bit of cheese on the table unwrapping a little something it's so nice i didn't realize

you were jewish so and mom's like of course she is but it's that similar thing isn't it it's kind of like is there a problem here's some chicken soup is there a problem have some food but also that just putting things in front of you all the time or you know and um lots of you know watching to make sure you are eating not as much as my great who is jewish in your family well all my family are but we are not religious but you're still well we know we still claim like you know the jews will still happily proudly talk about you and jc and yeah of course and claim you and you eat chicken soup of course i do certainly can we talk about have you got any particular ingredient that you put in your chicken soup?

Or is it just like no nonsense? Well, no, because I do change it a bit. And I don't really, I do make chicken soup, but it isn't really quite chicken soup. Because I do it more as, because of the, you know, as we do, you know, the way my mother did it. I do, it's more, I call it my mother's praised chicken. Because I always say it's part braised and part poached and it's an act of devotion for us my mother died very young and so really what it is is that it's a whole chicken cooked in a pot with carrots and leeks and you know lemon and whatever whatever you want but and a lot of water. And so what you do afterwards is that you make a chicken.

So you've got a chicken soup, but you've got whole bits of meat. And do you put bits of chicken in? Yes. So you don't have a boiling hen? Well, no, I don't. Because otherwise you can't eat that. No, I don't have a boiling hen. I do have a good chicken.

Good chicken. If I want to make just chicken soup i use wings not yeah because wings are the best they flavor a lot i buy a lot of wings so i could because i i mum goes to the effort for getting the boiling hen which i she'll go to stanford hill the other day that was good chicken that was not bad but will you bother with the matzo balls or loction well i don't because i'm not used to it although i have to say when my son was little he really did because my mother-in-law used to make you know proper uh matzo balls and that sort of thing and all those things as they said lots of things ending in look

but I do but I do like all that kind of food when I I'm in New York, I'll go somewhere that has proper chicken soup. Where's your favourite, I know this is a bit of an annoying question, but your favourite country to eat in? I don't know, because I'm so fond of, you know, Italy.

I could eat Italian food all the time. And I lived there when I was young. Where did you live? Mostly in Florence. I was a chambermaid. I was in between school and university. God, you wouldn't mind having Nigella as your chambermaid, would you? But I moved around a bit too.

I went south a bit as well. But if I'm in Italy for any length of time, and I really love it, I just come back really longing for some Thai food or a curry, because I miss heat. Yes, you love curry. So I do miss heat i i think see in a way i think you know england in london where which is really where i'm from london is a fantastic place to eat in because you can get there's everyone everything

and you get everything and it's you you know from you know any little places you doesn't have i don't mean the fancy places i'm not mad keen on that so and there's a good place to eat so where are your favorite restaurants oh well it's you know my favorite restaurants are a lot to do i think with habit and that so i love the river cafe because i've been yeah do you know i went there when my kids were little you know sunday lunch and there so it's where i would go for a special occasion yeah if it's you know someone in the family's or one of my children's birthdays you know i will go there and it's lovely especially in summer when you can sit outside so i love that when hannah graduated we went there didn't we yeah and we had those lovely bellinis with their pink peaches that they'd grown outside yeah

and it's just a good you know you're gonna get a good meal but also that the you know i know some of the people who work you know front of house they've been there since i've been going there i've been going there since the beginning um must be a great place to work you know so i i remember i went there 30 years ago maybe 31 years ago yeah i think i do or something and um and they've been working there so you feel that great sense of continuity and i like that i mean i do sometimes like going to a new place but my new favorite place is spring oh yeah that's i do love it the food skies and it's such a pretty place to eat i don't really like going to restaurants a lot i do do more when I'm abroad. Is it because you get recognized and it just feels like it just makes it unpleasant because it kind of, you feel like people are watching how you're eating.

Not that I mind that, but a bit, but it's a bit that, but I also, I think sometimes it's a bit that I do cook quite a lot at home and I eat quite a lot at home. So when I go out, I tend to want something plainer.

Whereas when I see, so when I'm away, I'm to want something plainer. Oh, I see. So when I'm away, I'm not eating that much. You know, so then I'm... Even then, though, I like quite plain things. Rovi's is quite good. Have you been to Yotam's? I'm taking her for her birthday. Yeah, I'm taking her for her birthday.

Okay, you've got to have the celeriac. Yeah, the celeriac. Celeriac shawarma. Yeah. And the lobster crumpets with sesame we're going back for your birthday oh my god it's so good but when you say so you you enjoy cooking at home do you ever feel like it becomes like work because i you know us doing this podcast i mean you know my pleasure of i mean i know your pleasure has gone from doing, you know, I mean, not that you ever enjoy cooking in the first place.

Yeah, it's really odd. I think it's more pressure. Yes. We want to make it kind of special. But I think cooking for people you don't know is terrifying. So if you're just talking about cooking for friends or a family or myself, well, that's fine. But if I feel there are people that I don't know or I don't feel at ease in front of, I always think people are going to get so disappointed because they expect it to be really fancy.

And it is really roast chicken. But that's what I've always liked about your programme. It was always about this occasion, but it was just friends. It wasn't supposed to be something over fancy, communal eating but we all sometimes feel exhausted, there are times when I feel I am just too exhausted to cook

however, once I'm actually pottering about in the kitchen stirring something, I decompress and I feel better, but I think that there are certain moods when it does all feel like too much but actually it's like so many things you know the thought of it um looms so so much and you have such dread yeah but then when you do it I like it but I think that

whenever it is too much it's because I've tried I've decided to do too much and that's why I nearly always write my list and then read it again and then cross half the things out because I've thought I'm going to do too much you don't need all that much I mean I think that there's a slight I find it slightly difficult sometimes

if I'm cooking and I have to remember what I'm doing when and then people sort of you know how they want to talk to you and they suddenly lounge in front of the stove and you're trying to get something or I forget yeah but I think mostly it doesn't really matter and it's as long as you kind of keep your calm calm it's that that's more important than whether things work or not I mean I am you know I do tend to be some of those people that says oh that should be more like this or that's overcooked or that's undercooked. But I will only allow myself to do it once

because I think otherwise it becomes a burden on other people. Yeah, and they keep on saying it. What are they meant to say? You know, so that's the wrong thing. But I also feel that, you know, the clearing up, on the other hand, sometimes I just think, oh, God, I can't face that. Does that make you decide, like, have you ever been like, you know what, I think oh god I can't face that does that make you decide like have you ever been like you know what I'd love to do that but that's going to require so much

clearing up I can't be arsed I'm going to do a one potter well I never do fancy things anyway but it is just more that sometimes it's about this which is that I've got some plates I really like but they just don't fit in the dishwasher and you can't be asked to wash them. And it's just that thing of there are lots of people. But actually, again, when you do it, but I'm one of those people who say, I don't mind washing, I can't stand the putting away again. Yeah, I get that. But I have to say, though,

but I don't particularly want people to help me clear up because I need to do it in my own time and my own pottery. And just leave it. And do it. But, you know, I don't... Cooking as performance art has never interested me right so it's it's just got to taste try and taste as good as possible it does but also just it does make people welcome but also one of the things that's quite good about

being greece is you realize they don't make a distinction between whether something is made or bought you know if it's a lovely bit of cheese for example i'm going um to a talk yeah on thursday and with a friend and obviously i can't really cook i'm going to cook it someday before and i'm in the studio all week so i just said to her afterwards so well you know let's come back and have smoked salmon at mine after and that is really nice so i think the thing is it's nice it's wonderful to eat with people and share food with people and i don't think you have to fetishize whether it's i don't feel i have to start you know chiseling you know radishes into chrysanthemums to go with it you know i might make a salad as well and i might then feel a bit inspired to put different things in it at the same time but

actually i just want to know there's food there that we're not going to have too late at night and yes you know because i'm going to be up early the next morning so i don't want to know there's food there that we're not going to have till late at night. Yes. You know, because I'm going to be up early the next morning. So I don't want to make a big deal of it. But do you, I mean, have there been any kind of brilliant mistakes you've made in, when you've been kind of, because, you know, you've got, you're a chef, you know. Well, I'm not though.

That's the, no, but that's a really, really big distinction. It's a really big distinction. But how can you not? Because she's not had a practical training. No, but I've never cooked in public. Like having a restaurant. No, but even when I do demos, I think, oh my God, please do I have to do a demo? Really?

I mean, I don't. You've seen me on TV. I don't cut properly. You don't need to. But I think that's the charm. Yeah, but that's. You know, I'm not a chef. I'm not trained.

And I speak to your time about it. I don't think it. He's not a chef, though, either. He's trained as a pastry know, I'm not a chef. I'm not trained. And I speak to your time about it. I don't think it. He's not a chef, though, either. He's trained as a pastry chef, I think. Is he? Mm. Okay, would you call yourself a cook? Yes, but I call myself a home cook.

Okay. God, I wouldn't call you a home cook. Yeah. But I suppose. Home cook makes you sound like us. No, but that's only because home cooks always talk themselves down. I think of myself predominantly as a food writer, to be honest, because it was writing about food that made me...

Yeah, I wondered how you learned to cook. I learned from such a young age, because my mother believed in child labour. And, of course, in the olden days, people didn't worry about you know child safety you know so we had a very rickety sort of or we had an old it was called something like new world gas range and um you know we'd she'd put a brickety chair me on my sister we'd be standing on the chair stirring things and just getting things on so we weren't doing it as amusement. So you were helping her.

Yes, we had to help and do things properly. So for me, the big challenge when I wrote my first book was learning how to weigh and measure. Because certain things I did weigh and measure for, but things like making a white sauce, you know, a bechamel, I had no idea how to do it except by sight and feel and then I had to I think it's called reverse engineer and I do that quite a lot a lot of my recipes come because I just cook something then I have to work out what I did it's so tedious that part isn't it because it doesn't come naturally to me but I've got a

slightly obsessive streak which comes in handy what did you do at university medieval modern languages oh no no i'm not math's not my strong point i did manage to pass an o level but not even a modern so what languages do you speak oh god hardly any now french german and english oh piss off no i don't mean french german english i mean french german and italian um but i actually don't mean French, German and English. I mean French, German and Italian. But I actually don't think I would be able to remember any German now. Although I did rather love it. Which medieval language? Well, all of them, you know, going back.

But mostly Italian and, you know, going from sort of medieval Latin and also Provençal with the French people. But, I mean, you just read it. You're not having to talk anything. How exciting. I like reading. I'm a reader. So I was going to do English,

but then I thought I'll do languages because... What was the last book you read that you loved? I am reading at the moment a book that I am rather transfixed by called... I think it's called The Overstory. And it's... Oh, I've heard about it, yes. It's about these people and their connection to trees think it's called The Overstory and it's uh it's I've heard about trees people and their connection to trees and it's isn't it on the booker it is yes yeah is she Australian

she's not the one that's terribly young no I think it's written by a man I've okay I can't remember his name and I should because I read it on the iPad. You don't have the book in front of you. Oh, God, really? I can't do it. It hurts my eyes doing the iPad. Well, I read with sniper's lenses at night. So I've got lenses which are yellow, which block out the blue light. It's only because when I go away, how many books can you take? And also, I'm a very bad sleeper. So if I read with a book with a light on, it's going to keep me awake longer

than reading with my iPad and my sniper's glasses. So that's where you read, in bed? Oh, anywhere. Oh, you read a lot. I do. How many books a month would you read? Well, it's difficult to say because it depends what I'm doing, you know, because if I'm out a lot.

Okay, if you were really busy. I would probably read one or two books a week oh my god no but i don't do other things no it's not about good or bad well i do sometimes i mean i do sometimes but it's not about so it's like you're you're you're reading i don't watch tv a lot you see there's so's so much good TV at the moment. I know there is, and I do watch some, but I do feel I need a certain amount of quiet so that I can only do noise for so long. I need to learn to think about that. But you see, my idea of a really great evening

is going to bed very early. No wonder I don't see it, because they always say you mustn't go to bed really early and just read for hours. Why? If I'm not doing anything at the weekend, I get up, have tea at that, I might do some yoga class or something like that,

and then I go back to bed with a book, and that's what I do in the daytime. See, you're a bit of an insomniac. You're a bad sleeper. Well, I am an insomniac, but I try and live with it, and I try and do things about it i mean i i'm kind of with you on the thing of going to bed i love it early dinner but they always say i'm not an insomniac

jesse could sleep no but you see they always say and i'm every time i've seen anyone about my bad sleep they always say you must go to bed much later and you mustn't lie down and read in bed why because you're meant to um just go there for sleep and give yourself a shorter window and but if i go to bed late i worry because i wake up early i worry about how little sleep i'm going to get but i think this is a function of having children i think you never ever lose you never lose that thing of working out backwards how much sleep you know when you you stay out longer than you mean you think and you just you go you always try and count how many hours sleep if i actually get to sleep when i get home how many hours sleep maximum i'm going to get

and you never quite recover from that and then you stress out about it so much i know i know i know i'm and i always get worried about oh i'm going to get to be tired when i do that and i'm not going to get enough sleep, which is a really mad way of thinking about it. But I think it leaves a scar. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I mean, so, because actually my brother, because my brother really is a big fan

and that's kind of why he had to leave the room. And, but he wanted to know, like, you know, because you talk about going down for like a midnight feat like you've well i do that in tv more but than i do i mean i try is that an actual thing when i try not to um i try not to i only really do that if i've been drinking at all because i'm not very good at alcohol so any i mean in the sense do not drink yeah i do but not very good at alcohol. So, I mean, in a sense... Do you not drink? Yeah, I do, but not very often. I mean, I did quite a lot in Greece, I have to say. But what I mean is that, so, if I come back from having... If I have even two glasses of wine...

You're good to go with snacks. No, you know, it makes my blood sugar go up, and then I need to have lots of food afterwards. So I often will go out for dinner, and if I have wine, I have to eat something when I get back so when you go out for dinner do you drink wine then I do sometimes I try and drink not always not always sometimes I just can't face it have you never liked it very much yes but I've never been a big drinker okay it's like you really um but I do like it but I'm a bit i mean i do try to because i think

sometimes if you don't drink you're it's like after the first hour of a party you're in a different room than everyone else and that could be quite difficult i mean i i feel that um i'm quite an anxious person and drink can really exacerbate that anxiety. Or the other way. Depends. Well, I think at first it doesn't. It gets rid of it at first, but then afterwards that horrible, you know, tight feeling of worry

and just generally just not feeling quite right. Kingsley Amis always said there are two hangovers, the physical hangover and the metaphysical hangover, and the metaphysical hangover was worse. definitely wondering what you said the night before but it isn't even that it's just that i mean i don't mean that much drinking it's just it does something to me but i think maybe it's an age thing too after a certain age you don't well the hangover you go well you don't deal with wine as well you have know what it is. It's being out of practice. So I... See, you're always training mum.

Last year, I went into training a bit because I went to Italy for three days. And so the two weeks before that, I started having a glass of wine a bit each week to go to training to get myself used to it. I love that. This is actually quite selfish of me i've got my best mates hen coming up and i've decided we've got this beautiful house in canberra sands that it's

kind of it's like this scandinavian like beautiful we've basically put all the fucking budget in the house yeah which means that i'm kind of stumped with maybe trying to be quite genius about what brunch we're gonna do yes what would be your best go-to brunch thing for 12 people that's kind of feels like i can feel like i'm slightly effortless i was thinking kedgeree yeah i think that's a good thing quite good it is if you've got big enough pots i've got quite an easy recipe too that i do quite a bit in the oven it's i call it my asian flavored one and it's made with salmon it's not traditional and it's got lime and coriander and that sort of thing so it doesn't have smoked haddock in it no it's not at all like

that i just but you know but kedry is great or you can do one of those things i think they call them a strata in um american i've got i've got a croque monsieur bake yeah which is so so really you're doing like a savory bread and butter pudding so that's delicious i've got so you i've got brown bread yeah uh plastic brown bread yeah you know because you know the thin um sliced kind of yes with i mean you could use any okay um and i make sort of i make um cheese and ham sandwiches i think it's gruyere and ham with some Dijon mustard. And then you beat eggs, and you can put that in the fridge the night before, and you put eggs and milk in it,

and you let it soak in, and then you just put it in the oven in the morning. That sounds good. Like eggy bread. Well, it is, but it's like a pudding. It's in a dish. It's in a casserole. Oh, yeah.

Do you know what would be quite nice? um to do like a chinese congee you know if you had a slow cooker oh what like the rice yes that ricey soup with chicken stock but not everyone likes that i know i feel like that could be a bit like marmite i'd quite like rice pudding and jam wouldn't you if in the morning i wouldn't mind i don't you see i do you know the funny thing is breakfast is the only time i actually have to make myself eat rather than oh really and so because of that i have the same thing every day more or less and what is it porridge no i don't you know i don't understand porridge just makes me starving you know how everyone says it feels it makes me completely starving me too i mean i love it syrup. Delicious. And they say it's got this slow release energy.

I'm still waiting for it. For me, not at all. No, I have poached egg on toast. We do too. Do you add Marmite? I don't. I sometimes do. But, you know, I'm a traitor to my people because I like Vegemite.

Oh, get out. I'm sorry. How can you? Because Marmite isn't what it used to be. What? It isn't right. Yes, I do. I feel it lacks the bass note now.

It's all squeaky and high. Where's the bass note in Vegemite? I don't know, because it's matte rather than shiny. It's a bit more bass note-y. But I do... There was one that Marmite, they brought out some time ago that was XO or XS or something like that, and that was delicious, and itS or something like that and that

was delicious and it tasted more like like meaty yeah it tasted more like that strong rich flavor oh god I didn't even know about the I still love Marmite yeah anyway so you absolutely has to be done poached eggs so you have poached egg on toast yes I do just I used to have um I used to have boiled egg on toast but since I taught myself how to have um i used to have boiled egg on toast but since i taught myself how to poach an egg very late in the day tell us how you do yours so okay well if i'm doing it for fancy like people coming i first crack the egg over a tea strainer into cup to get rid of because a french chef told me this is that the point about eggs is that the older they are they're not really fresh the

older they are they're some of that that the white turns watery and that's what makes all the strands okay when i what i do when it's just me at home or you know the kids i crack the egg into a little cup yeah and i pour lemon juice or vinegar just on the white and leave it there while the water heats up and everything and then when i so i don't get the water boiling it's just nearly bubbling very very low and then i tip the egg in and i leave the watery bit that stayed in the bottom of the cup in the cups and then so it's more it's a bit more solid as i say i strain it if i want it perfect and everything and then i leave it and i leave it on very low sometimes if it's only got one egg you can turn it off and leave it for three to four four minutes yeah um just in the turned off

water yeah but I but if it's any more than one egg I think you have to have it very low but I have it so low that I often forget to turn it off altogether anyway so I leave that in and I take it out with a slotted spoon pat it on a bit of a kitchen towel and then I put it on my toast. Is the food ready? Do I need to turn on the celeriac? Mum wanted to drizzle the truffle oil in front of you. Okay, celeriacs. So how did you do the celeriac?

You just boiled it and put lots of... I find peeling celeriac and cutting it so hard. You know what, this... It's so difficult. Have you ever tried Jotam's whole baked celeriac? It's about three hours. I haven't, but I keep meaning to. Because I find it impossible to peel and cut.

We've done rack of lamb with a pistachio crust, and it's just sitting there, so I'm going to cut it. So what was the kind of most memorable dish from your childhood that your mum used to make? Well, do you know what? I really, really hated meals as a child. And whenever people come to me and they say, oh, my child doesn't eat, I will say, listen,

I did later, but I never did as a child. I didn't like it at all. You didn't like the sitting down? I don't know, because I didn't like... I don't remember enjoying the eating either. But I was brought up in a very strict way. So you were given your food and you had to stay at the table until you finished it and if you didn't finish it the plate was given to you cold at the next meal and that was actually even old that was actually

old-fashioned even when i was a child um and so i didn't like that but i liked um i like quite strange things as well. I loved spinach, which I still do. I adored spinach, a lot of spinach with butter, my idea. So that was what you were having when you were younger? Yeah, when I went to my grandmother's. And she would let me have what I wanted. So if I wanted a big bowl of spinach, I could have that.

And I used to go to Panzer's with her she lived in Cavendish Avenue and I used to go to you know Panzer's yeah of course you do yeah and it's Circus Road Circus Road near St John's Wood yeah and um so I'd go there and we'd buy things and we'd go to the butcher and we'd go home and make something and I ate weird things like I you know I like brains and uh brown butter and I didn't and I'm so you know i was very very young i didn't realize it was actually brains from an animal i just thought it was something called brains you know what i mean oh wow do you still like brains i do i do like i like i had something in um greece called coccorezzi coccorezzi is fabulous which is like awful it is all awful in a roll and then the

intestine on the outside like almost like intestine all crackling on the outside that's so delicious if you were going for a bring a dish bring a dish to a friend's party god i'd be so nervous it would actually because i feel like i was being judged but you what were you probably i mean people expect something of you now right baked probably i mean people expect something in front of you now right baked pasta i think is quite a good thing baked pasta okay so come on tell me like just like a tray a tray bake well yes but i mean i so i might do a bait i do one with mushrooms i do a kind of like a bechamel and lots of mushrooms and stir them all in together or but i do one too when i i suppose one of the things I do remember

from when I was a child, that my mother used to cook, was leeks and white sauce. And I cook it in the same way. So I don't... So she would cook the leeks in water, cut them into short logs, cook the leeks in water,

and then mix that water with the milk to make the best smell. I put vermouth, dry white vermouth because i don't drink enough wine to have open bottles of wine yeah you could do wine that so i put a bit of you know i don't mean like the best you know a bit of martini yeah bianca and um in with the water not that much for the leeks and i use that to make the sauce and i use and sometimes my daughter calls it pie insides because when i used to make pies, I used to put that in. Oh, yeah, lovely.

But sometimes I make that into a pasta bake. Oh, that sounds nice. With cheese and it just leaks the cheese. I could do that when you're ready to eat. When we're having the manicures on the Saturday at the end. Do you think you're ready to eat? Yes, I'm starting. Always ready.

Yeah. Are you in kind of mad working mode at the moment from promoting because well how to eat has been re-public i mean yes i don't know there's a re-issue re-issue there's a sort of 20th anniversary so i'm doing a bit of that um you've got a bit of other yeah I am I'm going I'm looking forward to that I like doing this lovely fantastic yes I know how many would you like that's unfair to us yeah how much I would eat three or four and you want me to cut them through or will you cut them through? Will you cut them, please? Okay. Unless that's a nuisance.

No, I just didn't want you to. Mum is being really different to how she usually presents. You're trying to be polite. No, I know. It doesn't suit you. But you've got a book tour. Yeah, so it's the time of the liking. Well, it's sort of a book tour, but it's not really going to be just about how to eat.

I'm going to various theatres. Yeah. But I'm looking forward to it, because what's really it's not really going to be just about how to eat i'm going to various theaters yeah but i'm looking forward to it because what's really nice i've got such wonderful people yeah um interviewing me yeah and also so the second half you know it's the first half is sort of talking so it's really you know in a way as you know when you interview people it's where the questions go and it's a conversation but then what i really like is the second half is uh questions from the audience and that's always interesting because i you know you never know what you never know but i never know when someone's interviewing me i don't ever want to be asked told beforehand what you know you've got to you've got to answer in that moment it's actually really yeah it's

because otherwise otherwise you start you know trying to think and what would be my answer you know but also to have different interviews i mean i've never i've never done a book tour so i don't know how it is but i mean it's just and to choose such brilliant people like dolly and who else have you got interviewing i've got uh diana henry i've got charlotte mendelsohn novelist i've got um well did you choose these did you were you like you quite like these people? yes I was, I wanted people from different ages, different

different sort of books people who are interested in food or writing thank you yes please mum that pink lamb is just perfect mum that is cooked to perfection Michelle Ruggini will be very impressed, Mum. Mum, this is great.

Oh my God, that's great. But the lamb is perfect. It is, it's just perfect. We ask everybody. Yes, fire away. Last supper. You see, that's such a difficult one. Okay, desert island supper. No, no no no no i'll tell you why because i feel there are so many things i feel making choices and leaving things out it's going

to be so difficult okay okay okay so first i would have either guacamole but the one i do without any tomatoes and not with red onions but just spring onions green chilies lime salt coriander avocado or i or guacamole which i do which is blue cheese and and blue cheese and uh guacamole mixed so it's got spring onion sour cream blue cheese and um i won't have i have one and i think maybe i'd have the rockamole go out with a bag and i have some incredible um bread and butter and bread and olive oil every sort i think i would have incredibly good french bread or english white loaf with butter and i'd have some extraordinary sourdough okay with um I had some incredible sourdough from the dusty knuckle they're my friends are they yeah yeah and then funny enough um oh my god it's gonna be so happy and um my god it was so good I had their potato

sourdough they're phenomenal oh my god it was so good um so i'd have that and then i think i would have um linguine with clams you know with garlic parsley and a bit of chili no tomatoes anywhere white oh no tomato no absolutely i forbid the tomatoes um and then you see then you see it's difficult because you do get quite full up so i would want a proper roast chicken dinner but i would also like i love that that was a primi a primi oh yes but but also you know it's your it's your last dinner you're gonna get in but i would also like you know a proper steak and chips with bearnaise sauce as well i think that could be and i would like a fennel and lemon salad with or without maybe some very thinly bit shaved bits of pecorino very thinly cut raw fennel lemon juice cleansing i'd

have peas i do frozen peas which i cook you know for a very long time so they go gray and they're so delicious why do you cut them with well it depends sometimes i just do a bit of vermouth and mustard or sometimes i just do a bit of vermouth and mustard or sometimes i just do a bit of oil and butter and so they kind of look like those miserable peas that you get in the they look like the french bottled ones no because they're small because they're pretty poor they look like the french ones so um i might have to have those two but certainly and then I think I would have some gorgonzola. Yeah. And then either like blackberries and cream or lemon meringue tart.

Well, hopefully you're going to like the pudding. Yeah. Which Alex made. It's a blackberry and custard tart. Yeah. With your recipe for the pastry. Oh, good. Yeah, he did it. Oh, that's so nice.

Well, that's actually the first time that we've done kind of a cook. And it's not meant to be sycophantic. It was just that Alex is obsessed with this. Because we've just received your book. Yeah. Oh, right. I think that crust was very good, wasn't it? Everything was very good.

It was pistachio and mint. I love mint. So underused. Yeah. Do you think you have good table manners? Well, I think you do. I don't know. People should judge.

I don't know, but you see, everyone, I think, as in the rest of life, what manners really are being considerate to other people. See, my mother, even though they were old-fashioned and strict in some ways, had these rather, she was quite quirky as well so she's to say don't ask stretch because you know when you were little you were told really she said it there's nothing she said it's very rude to interrupt people's conversation so if people are talking don't say excuse me can you pass potatoes just get them oh no you see with the other way i know the other way around everyone was brought up the boarding house reach everyone was brought up the other

but she said that but i think that really manners are about being considerate to other people yeah i agree um i mean it is difficult there are certain people who you you really need not to be looking at when they eat and that's not pleasant and i think probably a lot of them are in my family but um i don't think that i mean i think if you're when you see people sitting around a table and they're not being together that's quite a sad thing i think so what would i so i have certain rules i don't like which i know that i don't like cross-contamination so i can't bear it if I see someone putting I haven't I I have servings yeah I don't like it and if people use their yes and people use

other spoons and I don't like it if people put anything a butter knife is a button if I don't want people to be putting I agree or crumbs in the butter I don't like that i think that's perfectly reasonable but i wouldn't tell someone else off but i wouldn't tell someone else i realized that that was because i was brought up very strictly about that and so i have a thing about it why were they so strict do you think i don't know this were but was eating important in your family because food was food was, definitely. And the appreciation of the food.

And your mother's efforts to cook. Because I think in those days, it was considered rather vulgar to talk about food. Whereas at home, you know, other people said, you know, it was not considered the done thing. Whereas we were always talking about what we've eaten, what we're going to eat, other things we could be eating as we're eating but even when you know but as i say as a child i wasn't so much like that but

i as i grew older like teenage um i did get much more interested in eating and i think it's because i and this is i think it's because i like being in control of it and i in a way i i love being cooked for but i can't imagine what it would be like not knowing what you're going to eat every day but i knew every day what i was going to be no but what i mean is is that some people are cooked for always oh i see what you mean and they don't mind what they eat do you think that even applies to when people just basically eat out every night because then they know what they're gonna i mean i don't know yeah i i i couldn't do that i feel like i need that control too and i it's not just that but i yes it says that it panics me if i'm if i'm out and i don't see anything i want to eat i get i get a

bit panicked oh my god me too you see i think often as well with hunger is that i don't always experience hunger um like in my tummy that i need to eat my mood goes yeah and i experience it as panic and despair rather more than um rather more than actually thinking oh i need to eat and every now and then i think oh maybe i need food i never forget no i never forget but i never forget but sometimes if you're working you can't if i i feel you have to um and when I'm traveling sometimes I miss food and I get and it's really hard for me I get a bit hysterical when I'm not fed I think we should have dessert oh yeah let's have dessert sorry yes are you yeah you're left in charge of what goes on top it was it's crumb fresh but it was supposed to be whipped crumb fresh but okay we didn't whip

it we don't need it we don't need crumb fresh with the custard tart you don't think I think you need the tartness. I'm going to have it, but... I'm going to take a picture. I'm going to take a picture of Nigella taking a picture. I have to say, your pastry is very good, Nigella. Alex has done a very good job. Mum's quiche dish, which is a bit deeper, got broken today. today Nigella said don't use quiche dishes oh yes because ceramic you say it makes it a soggy bottom this is so good it's good see you I like

the creme fraiche with it because it gives a little tartness I can understand that but I don't know well okay let me try it with as well it's just a pastry recipe but recipe. But it's very crisp. It is, isn't it? I can taste the nutmeg and the custard. So how did, forgive me if you've talked about this so much, but how did you get in to start it? Because you were a journalist before you became a... Well, I was. So I wrote about all manner of things.

I started off in the literary side, in arts. And arts journals and then the literary pages. And then I wrote, started being a columnist. But I also at the same time did write a restaurant column from quite a young age. But that was once every two weeks. But the other stuff I did you know more days a week but um because you were a restaurant critic how did you find that well that was in the

days when there weren't restaurant critics much they had stopped and I they had been but then they'd sort of stopped and I started it again that was very clever uh it was only you know but uh that was very clever it was only you know but I've you know in a way it was quite interesting because I felt that my job was to sort of give an idea of the experience to people

I mean I didn't do that way it's done now often when it's a funny turn yeah you know but I think we've all become a nation of critics don't you think because of master chef and bake off and twitter and yes and i think social media because of social media blogging and talent shows and yes so we're all very critical of things and i think that's what

makes people nervous of cooking because they almost feel they're going to be judged yeah absolutely i think you're right how do we reverse that then well i think you just have to surround yourself by people you like and then they're not judging would you like coffee or tea tea maybe i've got some fresh mint yes for tea i'd love that thank you thank you so much for doing this we've wanted you to be on this podcast since we thought of it oh i'm so pleased it's a nice i mean i couldn't be feel more at home or happier didn't you know

it's so great but no this has been bucket list tipped oh god I hope I haven't been a disappointment are you kidding

that's worse you've given me all the ideas from a hen do that I'm looking for and you've been amazing thank you Nigella sucked a lamb chop in our kitchen, darling. She is one of the sexiest women I've ever met.

She is just so serene and composed and beautiful but she also she's so generous generous kind she sorted sarah's hen she sorted sarah's hen um so interesting so many ideas such passion for food that's why we do table manners because that's what I want to know that was just like the quintessential version of table manners to meet someone so special who likes food do you think she liked food more than us or as much as much as much okay come on mom okay come on we were the one that was slapping the creme fraiche on and big thanks to your brother tonight okay so this may be the end of mum and i cooking because i feel like we got on better tonight too mum yeah because i wasn't i've been at work you gave me one fuck off jesse what is in the fridge that's very yellow

that's alex's custard extra custard in case of what i love it he really like this had like survival kit in case everything survival survival cooking survival nigella cooking no i can't think how many cows died today. Yeah. Well, that will all change when we have a vegan coming on. Jessie, do you know what I thought? Do you think we should have starters as well as a main course? Mum, do you want us to carry on loving each other? I hope Nigella enjoyed herself.

Do you think she did a bit? I mean, she had mint tea, so she didn't want to run off. No. And everyone should go and buy How To Eat or actually just watch any of her programmes and just show how much she loves food. And I tell you, go and get tickets for her tour. Absolutely.

Because live, she's mesmerising. Yes. You think she's good on TV, but you sit and watch her when she speaks and it's, you know, that she's just great. She knows how to hold court. She's mesmerising, yeah.

How can she call herself a home cook? I mean, if she's a home cook, what are we like? We're kind of the shed cook. I'm telling you. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you're enjoying it. We've got so many more fabulous guests coming up on Series 4,

so stay tuned. The music you've listened to on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser, and Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. And Table Manners is edited by the wonderful Alice Williams.