Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S4 Ep 6: Tim Dowling

Episode Date: November 14, 2018

This week we speak to Author, Guardian columnist and part time rock star Tim Dowling. And we see how Mum’s obsession with this charming (albeit slow eating) columnist comes a little too close to Kathy Bates in ‘Misery’. We delve into the truth behind his relationship with his wife, TV dinners and the perfect brunch. And I realise I eat far too quickly.Produced by Alice Williams Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners, the podcast that is about oversharing and... Overeating or undereating. I'm Jessie Ware and I present this with my mother. Hi. Who still doesn't really understand why she's doing this. Yeah. Who have we got? I feel like this is over to you. This is basically... I'm so excited

This is your night mum This is my gig darling I love this person I have read his column religiously For probably about Four or five years Bit upset that they moved him from Page one to page

No page two to page three I don't know why would he be upset about that Because it was just over the page they moved him from page one to page, no, from page two to page three. I don't know, why would he be upset about that? Because it was just over the page and he was the first one when you opened the page of the Guardian Weekend magazine, his column. And I always felt very reassured to see him. Just his meaty stuff. Right, he also has a bit of an angry face,

but actually when you see, he looks a bit cross on his his photo for his column but actually he's got the most lovely gentle voice he's born in Connecticut so he's got this lovely soothing American voice and he doesn't sound like he looks which is a bit cross and his columns sometimes a bit cross what's his name mom you haven't introduced his name is tim dowling and he's a columnist for the guardian and he has a book called dad you suck he's incredibly funny i've been through all his troubles with his car with his three teenage sons with them going through school, passing exams, going to university. Being ill on holiday.

Being ill on holiday and his wife not even noticing that. He also, you'll like this, Jessie, he also plays the banjo. Not that you play the banjo, but he is in a band called Police Dog Hogan. Police Dog? Police Dog Hogan. It's probably a bit American, darling. Okay. He is very, very funny.

He is funny. And I do want to know whether he actually likes his wife me that's the first question she can't be that bad she can't be and she must okay the columns also someone else I'm really interested to find out about Constance have you ever Constance pitches up she's the daughter of one of his oldest friends and she's kind of imagine a young woman in her 20s. And she pitches up and just bosses him around and takes the wife's side. It's very funny.

What is on the menu tonight, Mother? Actually, I should be telling you. I feel like I've done most of it tonight. I beg your pardon. Main course? Two sides. Okay. And pud.

Yep. I win. Okay, you do your sides then. No, you start it off. No. Maybe people are more interested in sides than the main thing. I think my sides are quite sexy. Okay.

I've made a chicken, mushroom and tarragon pie. So what have you done for sides? It's an autumnal night, so I've done... What kind of beans are they? They're actually runner beans. I thought they were bobby beans. No. Bobby's never been near those beans

that's very good uh i've done them with shallots cooked shallots and butter and i'm going to mix a bit of mustard through that and then i've just roasted a whole bulb of garlic so when it goes really sweet and i'm going to add that to mashed potato wow shut up you're not that impressed no I do I am it's kind of a lovely meal that yeah I'm up for it I know it's like we should have had gravy is it gonna be a bit dry it's not because I've put loads of stuff in the side the pie it's kind of it's a white sauce once the mushrooms cook they'll all kind of give off their own juices and then for pud I've done stewed plums and blackberries because blackberries are really great at the moment and I've stewed them in sugar

and lemon and bay leaves because I do love a bay leaf and I have the biggest bay leaf tree and I've bay tree sorry and I've actually done Dolly Alderton's mascarpone ice cream that's in her book I don't know if it's good it tasted delicious when I made it yesterday but I've put it in the freezer and then I'm going to crumble I'm sorry I haven't done my own crumble

we've got some stem ginger biscuits that I'm going to whiz in the Nutri-Villette and then sprinkle over and that is what's going on sounds delicious sounds like my kind of cozy meal tim dowling coming up on table manners hi i'm a huge fan you don't know how excited i am really Oh, just grab a chair and sit down, yeah.

Tim, can I get you a drink? Would you like a glass of red? White. I brought you some wine. Oh, you're so sweet. Yeah, once my wife yelled at someone that came to the house saying, if you come to the house, you're meant to bring wine. And I wrote about it.

And for some reason that week they made that the headline. It just said, when you come to dinner, you're meant to bring wine. And that was the sort of headline. And someone on Twitter linked to it and just said, Tim Daly came to my house and he didn't bring any wine. So now we know. I don't know this person at all. But then her face did look quite familiar.

And I suddenly realized, yeah, I came to your house like a decade ago. So now I bring wine everywhere just in case. We need to talk about your wife. We're desperate to know. She can't be that bad. Well, it... Your poor wife. She does say...

She's got a t-shirt on that says, save me. She does say, you know, I know what I'm like. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for coming. Cheers.

I mean, that's not our entire relationship. I hope not. But it's, you know, it's a couple of hours a week. Is she the boss in your family? Oh, yeah. Mum, come on now. Okay. She gave me a tremendous hard time.

She's trying to hire a car for next weekend. Where are you going next weekend? To the south of france it's sort of a second holiday to redeem the other holiday it's weird that you know this much about me but i guess that's my fault yeah it's your fault well you did you ever did you go into this thinking you were going to be writing about your family no writing books about no being a husband and a dad and i don't know i did it sort of briefly many many years ago when my children were tiny for

for a different newspaper uh and it was sort of all right but i didn't really think i thought it was really short and it was just a sort of tiny thing i was filling in for someone i thought this is quite good but it'll never last You kind of accidentally stumbled upon talking about your family. I took over the column, I took over the space about 11 years ago, and I only got one email from the editor about, it just said, I don't want you to feel like you have to write about your own life. And I thought, well, that sounds like an instruction, and I won't. And then it was about three months before I had to take over,

and I had a long time to think about what it would be about, and I just ran out of time, and I won't. And then I, it was about three months before I had to take over and I had a long time to think about what it would be about and I just ran out of time and I panicked and I wrote a column about the dog and the cat following me around the house all day. And then I thought, I've got a week now to get my shit together. And I wrote something that wasn't about my life and then the next week for that I panicked again

and I wrote about an argument that my wife and I had and I thought, I'm gonna get fired for this like three weeks in. And then Christmas came and you have, I panicked again, and I wrote about an argument that my wife and I had, and I thought, I'm going to get fired for this, like three weeks in. And then Christmas came, and you have to write all these columns ahead of time, and I didn't have anything to write about at all, so I just wrote one. By the end, I was writing about arguments we were having about the column already.

And finally, I sort of, around Easter, I sort of settled into a sort of pattern where I thought, this is the kind of thing I can do. It's got nothing to do with my life. It's kind of of political it's topical and uh I got another email from the editor that just said it just said what happened to the funny wife so I sort of it's my fault I was stuck with it does she read the column yes because I want to know whether she accepts what you write about her well the the aim of of the whole thing is to make her laugh on Saturday morning. So for that reason, if she doesn't laugh at it, then I've done something wrong.

Okay. But also for that reason, I tend not to show it to her ahead of time. Because I want it to be a surprise on the Saturday. How lovely. Have you ever... Sometimes when it does go wrong, it goes bad wrong. I think I might have to turn a surprise on the Saturday have you ever sometimes when it does go wrong it goes bad wrong I think I might have to turn my pie down

okay so you're from Connecticut yes I am have you watched Gilmore Girls I have because I'm obsessed with it are you

I've just started it on Netflix have you never watched it how far into it like series two I mean I've just started it on Netflix. Have you never watched it? How far in are you? Never watched it. The best. Like series two? I mean, I had to go, Colton. I had to start.

Yeah. I was obsessed too. I can't stop. I love Luke so much. Lorelai annoys me a bit when she's a bit like witty. That's why it's so addictive though, isn't it? It's not because it's good. It's because there's something about it that you-

It's the charm. You have to see the next one. I want to live in Stars Hollow. Yeah. and did you live in a place like stars hollow not really not really but you live somewhere did you live like in a place like schenectady how do you say it as a connecticut person do you know that's connected oh yeah that one yeah it's in upstate new york oh so it's not really Connecticut. Okay, forgive me. No, I don't think I've ever been disconnected. But where were you when there was the terrible flood at your dad's house and you had to go out in boats?

That's in Connecticut, yeah. It's Norwalk. It's a little bit of Norwalk called Roatan, which is a sort of shore town inside the New York commuter belt. So on the train, it's only 40 minutes into New York. So growing up there, was it kind of wholesome? And would you have lots of pecan pies and pumpkin pies?

Pumpkin pie, yes. Pecan pie is a bit southern. I'm sure we had some. Oh, is it? I think it technically is. Right. That could be because of the pecans. Okay.

Or pecans, I think. Yeah. Oh. That's what my of the pecans. Okay. Or pecans, I think. Yeah. Oh. That's what my mother would have said. Oh, really? Pecan. So what was growing up in Connecticut, like food-wise? Well, I thought it was really, I mean, to me, you know, the bit of Connecticut that I'm from is the kind of,

this place stands in for sort of soulless conformity and the death of the soul in almost all fiction. It's where they film Stepford Wives there. The original. I watched them film it when I was eight or something. Revolutionary Road, they film there. Oh, okay. You know, it's about, it's where people, where people's lives go to die. Die.

But I didn't feel like it was like that. It was like, it was all various sort of hot dogs and hamburgers. There's a beach and a little beach cafe do you miss american food i do i don't miss it when i'm here but when i go back i go through i have to eat everything that yeah so what's your first meal that you'll have when you're the first and i might go i'm trying to maybe go back before christmas uh i think i would go down to reweight and Pizza and order a pizza straight away. What would be your toppings?

Sausage. Okay, but like fancy sausage or pepperoni? In America, they just say sausage. Okay. And it's not pepperoni.

You don't really know what meat is. No, it's a spicy, meaty sausage. Yeah, I think they call it sweet Italian pork sausage.

Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's great. Which I love. With peppers. It's very hard to get here. You can't get it here, no. And it's great which i love and it's very hard to get yeah here you can't get it here um and it's not posh it's not expensive it's probably quite gross really good there it's you know it's not the best in the whole world but it's what i'm used to and if i go into new york i'll go to one of the ones down in bleaker street john's in bleaker street if it's still

there every time i go to new york i think is this what's it called it's called john's best yes it is there okay and you get it by the slice yes yeah and they have the sort of original coal-fired oven yeah yeah no it's really good we're going to new york are you yeah yeah we're taking it to the states yeah so growing up were your family foodies or was it no i wouldn't know not really my mother cooked but we ate separately as children oh and that very sort of except on sundays when we all ate together in the dining room okay and that always turned into a bit of an etiquette lesson so it was kind of a drag you know and what's sunday lunch in america brunch oh it's brunch it's not like rose rose no we would always have brunch and it would be you

know a weirdly early time to eat or a late time to eat what would be on the brunch menu brunch would be waffles pancakes sounds great bacon i love brunch i love it it's my favorite very bad reputation but i think that's because... Not in the States. Brunch has got a bad reputation. In the restaurant game in the States. Oh, yeah. It's that sort of...

Except in California, everyone does brunch. I mean, people just don't seem to eat breakfast or lunch. I didn't know it had a bad rep. Also, my wife hates brunch. You see? We almost wanted her to come. We should have done brunch for you. Yeah.

Yeah, well, she would have been furious. What are you going out this time for? I was like, well, it's brunch. What's the problem with brunch? It's fabulous. I love brunch. It just means you can be a bit more greedy. Will your wife do a big Thanksgiving dinner?

No. What the hell? No, she won't. We've done it. I think we've had Thanksgiving maybe in the 25 years I've lived here maybe twice

but it's the best meal on earth it means that you can have Christmas also you have to do it on the Friday or the Saturday because if you do it

on the Thursday everybody's just got to go to work in the morning oh yeah but not in the States but not in the States in the States everyone's home for the weekend

it's sort of free for all don't you have any American mates here that can sort you out? I've tried it. That's why I might go home. I'd go home. Yeah, I would.

I might go home alone. Go home alone. Don't you're killing me, Tim. It's really sad. I'm getting really depressed. Well, I'll have fun. We didn't think she was as bad as this. No, she's not.

We didn't. She'll be furious now. I would have given her a bit of pie but I'm not no she's dead to me if she doesn't let him celebrate Thanksgiving everyone you know

if I go places with her everyone really likes her I mean everybody only ever wants to meet her you're kidding when I do book talks people say is she here

and then when I say no is she gorgeous she's lovely yes is that what you fell for because she's just fabulous looking no I fell no. Is she gorgeous? She's lovely, yes. Is that what you fell for? No, I fell for her because she was really mean to me. You like it. It's usually girls that like that, not boys. I know.

Treat a mean people keen. How was she mean to you? Jessie, we've read the bloody comic. No, I want to know if it started that bad. I met her in New York in 1989. Right between Christmas and New Year. she was visiting some friends of mine who mutual friends friends of hers friends of mine but i'd never met her before and the mutual friends we had there was two these two girls who lived together in the village and by the time i dropped around, they were fighting. And they'd gone downstairs to scream at each other.

Nice apartment, two floors. And so my wife was down there trying to broker some kind of truce because we're all meant to go out somewhere. And the first time I saw her, she came up the stairs and she lit a cigarette at the top of the stairs and she said, it's like a fucking Sartre play down there. I'd like that. You thought, this is love.

But then we went out for drinks and she was really sort of mean to me the whole evening. Okay. But Bea, you can't have people being mean to him all the time. It's his wife, so he decides that. Now look, I need to know about Constance. How naughty is she? She was around last night, actually.

She's quite grown up now. Explain to me Constance How old is Constance? I don't, Constance must be 26, 27 And how do you know her for the listeners that don't know about Constance? She is the daughter of a friend of ours who we've known since she was born

When she was born we lived in flats on the same road off Portobello Road so we would sort of babysit for her so we've known her her whole life. She's very bossy with you too. Very, very bossy and very, very loud. But she's kind of, I mean, that was just sort of...

She comes in and sits down and opens a bottle of wine and will criticise him. Yeah, I had to fire her from the column, actually. When you say you fire her, you don't write about her anymore? Do you know what? I think he's playing us. I think he's doing the column. They can't be as bad as all this. They're not.

I think he's doing... I mean, you know, the nice bits I don't think anybody really wants to read about. You think? Yeah, no, you're right. Holding hands, looking at the sunset. Nobody wants to see it. I kind of do.

at the sunset. Nobody wants to. I could too. Who does most of the cooking in your house? Well, my wife would say that she does. Just the other day, I have to say,

we have a sort of standard recipe in our house which no one has any real affection for called spicy ricey which is just what you have on Sunday when there's nothing left but there is a bit of bacon

and there is some celery and there's there's just it's just odds and ends and some rice Jamie Oliver's probably going to make a package of that soon

he should be so lucky but when I make it it's there's my recipe and my wife's recipe even though we invented it together when the children were tiny spicy ricey

my version has veered away from her slightly and I think my children prefer it what do you add i sort of i sort of fry a bit of cumin and turmeric at the beginning wow uh i'm a little bit more generous she's yeah she's a bit like the war's not over yeah it's just more English to have sort of less of everything in it parsimonious English yeah

and and I don't she puts smoked paprika in it until it's a very brick red sometimes that can be

too much and I've decided I we had a thing where we sort of went mad for a smoked paprika and

I've just fallen out of love. I put too much in one of my dishes at the weekend and it ruined it. Yeah, it's quite easy to go too far with. Would you say spicy rice is your... No. Your signature dish? No. What's your signature dish?

My signature dish. That's a very good question. My signature dish, I suppose, is linguine with clams. Oh, vongole. Linguine vongole. is linguine with clams. Oh, vongole. Linguine vongole. What's it? Vongole. Vongole.

Where do you get your clams from? That's a good question. I don't do it that often because they're quite hard to get a hold of. But there's actually, Acton Market has a very good fish guy. Do they? And if he's got cockles, just as good. I don't know what you're saying. They're better because they're more like...

Do you get them in the shell and everything? Yeah. Although if I'm feeling fussy, I take... When I do the clams first, I take... I take about half of them out of the shell. I love fongole. I've never been bothered about cooking mussels or... I don't know, it kind of freaks me out,

even though it's quite a simple thing, right? Yeah, it's easy. You just steam them mean the thing that people freak out about to make sure they open is to make sure they open yeah and to make sure that you haven't put any dead ones in so you know you tap them if any if any of them are open while you're cleaning them if you tap them against the sink they'll usually close up if they're alive and if they don't just been i mean i always err on the side of caution i throw a lot of probably live ones away do you like parmesan on seafood pasta i do do i know it's really bad my wife does yeah but i know it's really bad i like her too now she doesn't care i care very much about how things you know when I'm in Italy

yeah I won't drink cappuccino because why because it's sort of I mean I would I would

in private but when you go to a restaurant everybody else drinks espresso and it's a bit of a yeah it's sort of novelty drink isn't it yeah it's really

it's all about how I think you know how I feel I'm going to be perceived I want to be thought of as more of a gourmet person than I am, so I pretend. When you're there, do you say ciabatta?

Or will you say ciabatta? Ciabatta. You know, I had an Italian app for ages, and I thought I was going to go and speak, but I mean, it was just hopeless. I'm such a panicker. So, your mum wasn't a great cook? No, she was a very good cook, but it was quite plain,

and i think we ate a lot of stuff like that i haven't heard of before since like cube steak which is cube steak it's a sort of very tough cut of meat i don't know which one which has been run through a machine so that it has little cube shapes all over it oh it's like when they bang it yeah yeah but i think they just had a you know at some factory somewhere it was all run they bang it to tenderise it. Yeah, but I think they just had a, you know, at some factory somewhere, it was all run through. So it was probably started out life like that. And it's quite like, it's about... So was it a lot of kind of meat and two veg?

Meat, meatloaf. Oh. Meatloaf was very good. Now we're talking. There's no flies on my mother's meatloaf. It was great. What's the ingredient? Yeah, we want the recipe.

And could we have it for our cookbook? I don't know how to make it. No idea. Get the recipe. Is it written written down anywhere i'll check with my sister because there's a did you have it with the tomato sauce on top did she put eggs inside there were eggs in it yeah uh what like whole eggs yeah sometimes people do them like whole eggs like fancy like pork pie that's like diner meatloaf now i mean it's now like all this kind of millennial meatloaf which is much nicer than millennial meat that's what i was gonna we need in the cookbook so what what was your favorite dish that your mother cooked you she used to do

i mean the thing is we always what we really loved was anything from you, anything pre-prepared. Like TV dinners. We love TV dinners. TV dinners. Did you have little trays on the side of your, of the sofa? You know, they're like... We did own a set of them. Yeah. Little folding tables that, I think there were six of them.

And you could sit them. They were stacked and you could pick one off. But we didn't do that. Okay. Very often. Didn't you sit around the table to eat? you could pick one off. But we didn't do that. Okay. Very often. Didn't you sit around the table to eat? No. Only on Sunday.

We sat around the kitchen table. And then my parents, actually weirdly, my parents ate in their bedroom. Oh. For years. Why? Because they had the only, because they ate at a little sort of garden table in their bedroom. Because the only TV in the house in those days was in their bedroom were you allowed to go in no not while they were eating so we were eating they would they would

sort of serve us and then so how did you have your tv dinners well later i think like four in a bed no i think no because no later we got other tvs okay uh we got a kitchen tv and then we had a sort of you know done up basement or it was actually half the garage had been garage i should say garage had been taken over and made into a sort of playroom so we had a tv there tv in the kitchen and mainly we would have tv dinners when my parents would go out because my parents went out to dinner once a week. Always. Where would they be going? With my uncle and my aunt.

They went to Chuck's Steakhouse. Or they only went. There were only three places on their list. Chuck's Steakhouse. Chuck's Steakhouse. And down in the sort of mini mall, there was a restaurant called Lock, Stock and Barrel. Oh, wow.

Lock, Stock. there was a restaurant called Lockstock and Beryl. Oh, wow. Lockstock. And then there was sort of, there were a couple of restaurants in, right in the sort of village of Royton, one called Higgins'. But I don't think they lived there very often.

Was that like a diner? No, there was a diner called Henry's, which is now a really, really fancy seafood place. Tim, can I just say something? That on your photo, you look cross. And you look rather angry on your column photo. And you're not at all. You're a rather gentle person.

Thank you. It's a backhanded compliment, I think. Your photo stinks. No, I don't think it stinks. But you look angrier than you are. You're not an angry person. So she's suggesting you change your profile. Maybe you should, because you're rather an attractive man.

I'm hanging. Who's got a very gentle manner. And I think it doesn't come across in the photo. That's the great thing about a podcast, is everyone's sort of obliged to believe you. I'm sweating profusely. I'm slightly embarrassed for my mother now. Don't be embarrassed.

You're in a band. I am in a band. Because Jessie sings as well. Yeah, I heard. What's on your rider? What's on our rider? It used to be like an iron

and tea making facilities. That's not a rider. And then it made it sound like we were going to a travelogue. And I thought, so I think we've upgraded it so that it has

like some craft beer in it. Which craft beers do you like? Well, local. You let them choose. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. Because it creates a sense of initiative in the venue. I like that.

We've got that. But very often you don't get anything. You think, did they get our rider? And you play the banjo. So what's the band like? What's the sound? It's very, very hard to describe because it's i mean we've we used to say that it was like i said it was like pop music but with all the wrong instruments

because everybody has quite sort of you know everybody grew up listening to sort of pop and punk nobody has a sort of proper country music i'm from connecticut it's not the cradle of bluegrass is it no so a lot of it, like when I first started learning the banjo, I didn't really know any banjo music. And when I started listening to it, I thought, I really, I don't like a lot of this. You know, it's

quite, it's terrible. Lots of people hate the banjo. I quite like it. There's some brilliant banjo stuff out there. So I think we, it's a sort of country, now they say Americana. Okay. Americana's easy because it's very hard to get

kicked out of. But you played Glastonbury. We did play Glastonbury, yeah. What stage were you on? On the Avalon stage. That's a big deal. That's amazing. It was lunchtime. So what? You got the free ticket and it's Glastonbury. I think so what was our attitude, yeah. Will you be playing the...

Is it the 50th anniversary next year? They need to get in touch because we might not be available. Why? What are you going to be doing next year? Well, next year... I mean, the thing about festivals is they start to... Right about now is when they start to sort of start asking. Bloody hell, they're not asking me.

Jesus. When did you get asked, Tim? That's early. I know. but sometimes they ask you from it's because they had you last year or two years ago and they want you back so they're sort of they start to feel out your availability do you write your own music yeah do you sing i am not the main singer but i sometimes sing he's got a lovely voice i'm not you do a good time but i can't i don't know what you're supposed to, I think you say, I can't sing, but I am a musical. Just you. Oh, it's fine.

I'm sorry, I'm going to let mum do this, because she says I do it like a dinner lady. Maybe I'll just get the Dijon. I don't know. Do you like condiments? I'm fine. Are you fine are you sure delicious yeah I don't know that it is let me put my glasses on because we might not get Jesse why have you got ladle there why have you got Tim's book on the like because I have my I have my notes as well my notes post-it it's like my house it's like my book you can imagine I have shit loads of coffee. Pardon.

What if you need pepper and salt? I don't have pepper, I'm really sorry, I do have salt. And I can't keep using the excuse that I've been on tour. When did you get back? I mean, I've been in and out, it's just that the house is a shithole and I keep being like to my husband, babe, it's because I've been in and out of the country on tour. It's like I'm constantly living out of a suitcase.

Do you feel like that in the summer? Yeah, it doesn't go down very well at my house. As the fiddle player said to me, he said, whatever you do, don't say that it's work. Because everybody's, you know, my wife think, he's got a lovely harpy that she really enjoys. It's a hobby that you're, you know, it's not even a hobby. It's a job.

Yeah, I can't say that. You're playing Glastonbury. I feel like that's a... Actually, the one we're worried about is Shepherds of a Shempire. You're doing Shepherds of a Shempire? When? March. Headlining it? It's our thing, or it's the promoter's thing.

We're headlining it in the sense that a warm-up band has been hired. Well, Table Manners listeners, your band is called... Police Dog Hogan. Why? When we first started, we'd just played our third ever gig. In fact played our sort of third ever gig.

In fact, it was my first ever gig. I wasn't in the band for the first two gigs. Why weren't you? Why did you miss them? Well, the second ever gig, I went to see them. I was like... A fan? In the audience, yeah.

Well, fan. I just thought one of them was a friend of mine. I thought, I am such a good friend going to see his weird midlife crisis band. And I thought they were great. And I was like, I want a piece of this. And I could sort of play the banjo. But I'd only had the banjo for a year or something. And I was struggling with it.

But none of them played the banjo. You got in. They didn't know how it was supposed to sound. So I got in, went to a bunch of rehearsals. And they said, we've got this gig. Went to the gig it was down in it was in Cornwall

to save some village hall somewhere and we one of us who was a travel writer had blagged two days of recording at a residential recording studio

the only one left amazing one of two I think it's not not the one in Wales no that's rock something wasn't it maybe this is called Sawmills and it's not not the one in Wales no that's rock something wasn't it

maybe this is called Sawmills and it's where Oasis recorded definitely maybe and things and you can live there

and anyway you can't you have to be taken there by boat so we're sitting at the pub waiting for the boat to come and get us

that's fun yeah it's on the river of Foy and it's not accessible by road so they just come up river a bit it's on a creek and the fiddle player who in his spare time is a barrister was telling us this story about looking

at a police statement for some case the police statement was about a riot and there was this person in the statements called pd hogan andogan. And he said, you know, he said, oh, everyone in the police department has this two initial thing. You know, people are called DCI, PDC. He said it probably stands for police detective or probationary detective. He didn't know it, but he thought it would become clear later. And so they go to the riot with P.D. Hogan, and there's P.C. Martin, P.C. someone,

and they attend the riot, but they leave P.D. Hogan and there's P.C. Martin, P.C. someone and they attend the riot but they leave P.D. Hogan in the van. You think? He must be a probationary inspector. They've left him in the van. Oh no, he was a police dog. And anyway, the riot got worse so they went and collected P.D. Hogan.

P.D. Hogan was brought to the van and then at some point he began to vocalise. And he said, what does that mean? And eventually P.D. Hogan bit someone and that's when he realised that he was called that it stood for police dog and we loved that story

what a good name for a band and at that point everyone said yes it is a good name for a band and I think we've all had cause to regret it it doesn't really go with what I feel like Americana music kind of no I know it sounds a bit like i mean i think a lot of people think that we are serving police officers i think it's

really good good yeah and can we put it in the pastry uh i didn't make it why bother what you can get it there yeah i never have i mean can you imagine you imagine Paul Hollywood would be... But would he? Other sorts of pastries. Yeah. Maybe. Do you go out on dates together? Yeah, darling, they really go out. Yes.

Where's your date spot that you go to? But not very often. The cinema. We can do the cinema I've read about that one Why? What happened at the cinema? Went in the afternoon Sounds perfect I don't always remember what I've written Probably about four or five years ago

You went to the cinema in the afternoon And what happened? I can't remember Probably about four or five years ago. You went to the cinema in the afternoon. And what happened? I can't remember, but I think Constance might have come with you. Naughty Constance. I don't like this story. Is it slightly worrying how much my mum... She's basically like a misery, Kathy Bates. You're not going home tonight.

Mum's going to break both your kneecaps. It's hard. I suppose it's hard because you... No, but you write... I read you every week. It's my favourite column. That's the thing. Even when I write it,

I don't expect people to read it every week because, you know, people miss them. People think... You know, so people say, oh, how are your dogs? And I think, well, one of them died three years ago. Where were you? Yeah, I know.

Or, you know, they say, how's your column in The Observer? And I say, it's not in The Observer. It's in The Guardian. People, you expect a certain sort of fogginess about what you write, because obviously even my friends don't read it every week. I do.

My children don't read it every week. I do. But how special to have this collection, this chronicle of your life, and for your family too, especially for your kids to kind of grow grow up they can if even if they won't remember it's just there's i've often wondered about that whether they would appreciate it or not and actually we there was a i think when the

book came out there was i did a cover piece for the magazine and they got my oldest son to write something for it and he was very sweet about it like the idea that it was a sort of family record well it's funny because I I've started to write with my two years of being a parent like I write my daughter a letter every birthday and I'm going to kind of do it until I don't know maybe she's 21 I don't know and what I find is that I'm being really generous to her because obviously I'm'm like, these are the great things. This is what happened this year. But really, what I want to say is, don't say to me, shoo, mummy.

That's her new one. But instead, I kind of, you know, I rose tint it maybe. No, she's amazing and I adore her. But I kind of, I love the fact that it's kind of warts and all. And it's funny and it is funny and and it's those kind of everyday stories that just are familiar for everybody you know I yeah I think that's what makes it work in a way I think the weird thing is I always said something bad will happen to me really bad will happen to me and I think this is gonna be great and then you sit down to write it and it just doesn't

it just doesn't it doesn't work as well as ones where you're struggling because absolutely nothing's happened to you you think what am I going to write about you sit down

you have no idea and you think I can't write a whole thing about you know the cat being sick it's just it's not enough and it turns out

I mean you can if you Kathy Bates over here thinks you can if you're desperate enough you can and you will and you will over here thinks you can. If you're desperate enough, you can and you will. And you will do it again. And I think that's...

Do they mind you writing about them? Do they say, Dad, you make me sound like a real idiot? Yeah, they have said that. I've heard that exact quote. Or, Dad, you sound like a real idiot. Or, Mum sounds so terrible. I think in a weird way, me being the butt of the joke is the sort of is the sort of whole point yeah and from their point of view that's more or less how our

family works anyway yeah so it's pretty natural for them it's quite I mean when they were little they never read it they didn't I don't I'm not even sure they knew there was such a thing happening so what do you think is your... What's your worst table manner in somebody else? I don't really mind. I suppose people who chew with their mouth open. Yeah. But then I'm worried that I chewed with my mouth open earlier.

Me too. Now, yeah, I might have done. But I'm not... I'm not that fussed. I always think it's me, you know. What's your worst table manner? Well, historically... You're a bloody slow eater. I guess I'm a bit of...

My posture's poor. And I used to be... I used to get in trouble for not switching. Switching? Oh, your knife and fork. You know, in America, you're meant to... You cut like that, and then you put everything down,

and then you put this hand in your lap, and then you pick up with that what do you cut it up all at the beginning or cut bits up as you go along that sounds so time consuming

no wonder you're a slow eater that sounds bloody time consuming I don't do it because I'm left handed and also I moved to here where you don't do it thank god

the sun eats with you that's stupid I love America but that's stupid I'm not sure that it's a very it was always A very brutal

Was that kind of When you're talking About etiquette On a Sunday Brunch Would it be Learning to eat Yes

Properly with your Knife and fork There was all Sorts of things NIL My mother used to Always say NIL

What's that mean What's that Napkins in laps Or hands on laps When you're I've been putting my elbow on the bloody table

oh yeah elbows off the table what's yours FHB family hold back yeah yes which I've never done

Jesse can't I can't follow that rule are you a puddings person or are you a savoury person I like both I quite like making puddings.

Oh yeah? I had to make all the birthday cakes growing up. Oh really? Because my wife can't bake. She can cook but she can't bake. Buttercream icing? Yeah. The other day I was going to do

the one that has meringue in it. What's that one? It's a sort of Italian buttercream. Oh Italian buttercream and it's got meringue in it. I looked at the recipe and I thought it was too hard. You have to sort of make sugar syrup. Oh, Italian buttercream and it's got meringue in it. I've looked at the recipe and it's too hard. You have to sort of make sugar syrup.

Anything where you have to put that thermometer in. Oh, I don't have time for that. How is it we often have closet foodies on the podcast and we don't know? Closet food is probably fair. Speaking about puddings,

are you ready for your pudding? I feel bad. But I feel... Yeah, move that, Charlie. I've left this now. Do you know the writer Dolly Alderton? I know who you mean. So Dolly was a guest and I read her book and she does, yeah, mum's just saying the recipes.

And she had this one called mascarpone ice cream, which I don't have an ice cream maker. It's really good. You basically, four egg yolks, mascarpone, icing sugar and vanilla essence. I did it last night. And you freeze it. And it's really good. So it's... Dolly will have that for the cookbook.

Because it's mascarpone, it doesn't need to thicken up or anything. It's just... Thick. It's thick. It's really good, right? Yeah, this is amazing. Like, really. And then...

And what's this crunchy stuff? Oats. It's a cheat. I just shushed up some stem ginger biscuits in an Ootsie bullet. I'm sorry. It's a bit come down with me.

I don't think that's cheating. Oh, it's great. If you get the bullet out, that's cooking. But the plums and blackberries are done with um bay leaves and some lemon zest it's got you which you just get a hint of don't you it's quite a little bit last supper we ask all of our guests what would be your last supper I mean I know I know I said it before but when I am in Italy or anywhere where I think it's going to be good, I will have linguine alla vongole. Yeah.

Would that be your starter? It's your last supper. Yeah, let's say that. Let's say that. I'm going to have that as a starter. And then... Your mum's meatloaf? Yes, that's a good idea.

What would the sides be? I really like rice. Do you? Yeah. With meatloaf. Oh stop. Are you mad? You can't have rice with meatloaf. I know that I go. This is my last supper. It's him doing what he likes. Okay. He's dying. You're dying. Exactly. Okay. Criticise. What sort of rice? Well I kind of like plain white rice. My friend Shahen who's in the band showed me how to, he got furious with the way who's in the band, showed me how to... He got furious with the way I was making it. He showed us how to make rice.

And then we made it with the recipe on the website. He is Armenian by extraction. Am I good at rice? He lived most of his childhood, I think, in Iran. Oh. I've got an Iranian rice cooker. Have you? Yeah. That you plug in.

Would you call it Persian? Well, it's Persian. It's Persian and Iran are the same place, darling. No, I know that one. Do you? Okay. Piss off. Yeah.

Okay. I've got the Persian rice cooker. So you get the crispy tagliatelle. Yeah, he does that. Yeah. He does that. I was at his house a couple of weeks ago and he does that. It's amazing.

And you turn it out like a big rice cake. Yeah, I'll have his rice actually. It's fantastic. So that's going with the mum's meatloaf. Yeah. And what's the veg? Or are you even going to have veg? Something you've grown.

Yeah, I'll have the runner beans through my little slicing thing. Okay. Yeah. Quite nice. It changes the whole notion through my little slicing thing. Okay. Yeah. Quite nice. It changes the whole notion. Because they're stringy then. There's something else to think about too.

And I'll take you off your mind. And I think with very little fashioning, I could probably break out a prison with it. Oh. Because it's quite sharp if you can get the top off it. Prison break. I like this. This has got exciting. This is always going to be, this is why the last meal wouldn't be that.

Yeah. I find it hard to concentrate. Do you like pudding? Mm-hmm. Okay, so what's your pudding going to be? It's strawberry shortcake. Oh, that's so American. It is really American.

You're really not. And it's quite hard to come by. And if I want it, I sort of make it myself now. Isn't that what? It's just shortcake with strawberries on. Yeah, and whipped cream. Isn't it? And whipped cream. That would be my idea of heaven. and if I want it I sort of make it myself now isn't that what it's just shortcake with strawberries on yeah and whipped cream isn't it

and whipped cream that would be my idea of heaven I completely understand that really it's amazing a buttery biscuit yep

with some lovely fresh strawberries this shortcake is a sort of it's not the same as Scottish shortcake no oh

it's like what Americans call drop scones yeah okay and what are you going to oh so it's like. And what are you going to... Oh, so it's like a... I know.

What are you going to drink? I could drink white wine. Are you going to finish with a cappuccino or an espresso? I think it's my... I'll have an... Well, how do I want to come across to the people... I don't think you want to be too wired up at this point. You might not go for the drop.

Maybe just I'll have a cappuccino it'll last longer you want to care about how you come across on this not how like to my jailers okay execution okay yeah tim can i ask your uber rating um i don't know it okay can i help you find it you may have to yeah I mean oh wow this is good what is it 4.71 shit that's good is it that's really good I'm I'm 4.47

how can you be 4 Jessie you must keep them waiting no I don't I'm 4. do you have to judge them every time and say that they're great

I always give them 5 star me too and a tip do you know last week I was at a party. What are you? 4.71. 4.71.

That's really high. I'm 4.62. You should be really proud of yourself. But that's just not using it very often and not making very many mistakes. A couple of weeks ago I was at someone's 60th and I got very, very drunk. And? And I came back in the Uber and you know that thing, they look at you and you look at them and they're like, are you going to be sick in my Uber?

And I'm like, of course I'm not going to gonna be sick so then you do a chat to make myself seem normal normal you're not the whole way back i know but you think you're doing it and then i got up and i said well thank you very much good night and i got up and i walked and i fell into the road in his headlights you know so when i stood up i was just like facing his headlights like that I still maintain there was a pothole there but I got in

and I thought it's never occurred to me before but I thought he's going to give me he's going to do you know I'm going to have to tip him so I got online

and did you with one eye you know with one eye shut like that so I could read the screen oh my god

I'd love this I tipped him five pounds oh my god five pounds I never tip five pounds that could be why maybe you were 5 before

And he's dropped you What he dropped me because I'm such a bootleg Or You went up because you gave him 5 pounds I mean I wasn't sick in his cab or anything I did just fall down in front of him Yeah but then you try to make like small talk And he's probably just like mate I don't want to speak to you

I was 4.63 two weeks ago I was 4.45 so I'm really happy I went up 0.2 so I'm really happy. I went up 0.2, so I'm really happy. Well, I'm thrilled. Are we more dysfunctional than your family? No, I don't think so. Ah. But, you know, we're used to it.

This hasn't fazed you. I mean, I've been polite, actually, holding it back. And Hannah's not here. Yeah, Hannah's not here. Well, that was lovely, the food. Fantastic. Oh, no. But thank you so much for being such a good support

and coming on. Not at all, at any time. And she's not that bad, is she? No, she's not. I know she isn't. Everyone likes her. Yeah, and she's gorgeous. She's lovely.

Yeah, you see? 26 years. 26 magical years. 26 magical years. 26 magical years. Yeah. Mum. Yes, darling? I feel like you just really enjoyed yourself.

I did. I had a great time. I don't think his wife's as bad as he says, though. I think he really loves her. I think he really loves her. I think he does, too. Yeah. And I think she really loves him. I think she must do.

To tolerate the column? To tolerate his slow eating. God, they must have very long meal times. Two and a half hours a night. I think he enjoyed it yeah i think he did menu worked i think i think it did i don't think he was excited by it i didn't think he was as well it wasn't the most exciting no as far as i yawn did it taste okay did you i was lovely mom yeah it's dead easy as well uh tim dowling thank you so much for being a guest on our podcast very generous guest very beautiful wine 2008 bottle of wine was it 2010 yeah i feel like that makes it really

impressive right and he said to me that's 10 years old he thought your wine was better than his wine oh my shiraz it was like yeah i said it's 10 quid shiraz feel, even though you were a bit misery. I was. Just a bit intense. Yeah. Yeah, I think he got a bit frightened when I kissed him at the end. He was shaking everyone's hands and I grabbed him. Oh, God.

Poor man. He's probably, like, shuddering in the cab as we leave now. I'm so sorry. Oh, my God. Maybe you'll be in the column. I hope I'm not in the column. Oh my God, imagine if he's had the worst time

and he writes about it. The music you've listened to on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser and Table Manners is edited by the wonderful Alice Williams.