Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S4 Ep 7: Cariad Lloyd

Episode Date: November 21, 2018

Not only is she an award winning podcaster, an actor, a comedian and a writer, this week’s guest claims to be the queen of the meringues and dirty dancing. We discuss growing up, grief, celebrating life and all things sweet. The delicious Cariad Lloyd up on Table Manners!Produced by Alice Williams Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Good morning, Mum. Morning, darling. I feel very zen about this meal today. Why? Because it's all kind of prepped. I've prepped. I've learnt from doing three seasons of Table Manners about prep. Prep's very important. So I feel very relaxed.

I feel like the guest is going to come in, have a lovely brunch with us, and leave with a full belly. Has it been nice not doing the food today? It's fabulous, darling. You always come in, when you don't do the food, you come in with a slight smug look on your face. don't feel smug i feel more serene oh really yeah

i just don't feel stressed i don't know that lenny even though i have traveled an hour in the traffic so okay but anyway today we have actually the person that beat us at the arias never mind it's very very good it's not what you're saying on the night was arias never mind it's very very good it's not what you're saying on the night was it no um it was a very very good podcast it really worthy podcast it's really important podcast her name is carrie ad lloyd she is an actress writer comedian and now an award-winning uh podcaster with her amazing podcast called grief cast which interviews comedians mostly comedians i think maybe shecast, which interviews comedians, mostly comedians, I think maybe she's going past just comedians,

I mean, who have dealt with grief. Yeah, losing a loved one, a relative, a dog, and everyone chooses somebody that they'd like to nominate to talk about, and it's a very cathartic experience. And I think that the added part that they're comedians, they kind of find a way to kind of laugh about it or see the funny side of death I don't know it's I've been listening to it for a while and everyone's story is so different but there's something so relatable about everybody's

kind of almost like their embarrassment about how they reacted something or what you remember about that day when somebody passed away and carrie had lost her dad when she was 15 and so she said in interviews that this has become a kind of therapy for her in a way of kind of talking about him and talking about her in this club of people that grief but i i'm sure she's kind of maybe doesn't want to talk about grief today so we should talk about food with her we will i think she has she has i don't know how old her baby is now she has a young kid i wonder if her kid got a pom-pom stuck up her nose today maybe not brunch was nearly off because i had to go to nursery and um they said you get that phone call not to worry the baby's right next to me and she's absolutely fine but she does have a pom-pom stuck up her nose and I said well can't you just try and get it out um

and I said am I a bad parent saying can you sort this out they said well we would prefer for you to basically they just want to lump you with if it goes of course they do um anyway I went and I had to go and get like 10,000 different tweezers. I went. And as soon as I walked through, they were like, she just sneezed it out, which is great.

But the sweetest thing that she said, what did I tell you? No, when she couldn't get it out. And I think they, she was finding it quite funny. They went, okay.

And she went, don't worry. Mommy will fix it. Those wonderful words. I know. If only Jim hadn't ruined that line for me, I could have written a book about it. Oh, yeah. Don't worry, Mum will fix it.

Anyway, on the menu today is a kedgeree. Fab. No, don't lie, Mum. I do love kedgeree. When I text you... Kedgeree. I do love kedgeree. No, I do.

When I text you this morning, I said I I'm doing a smoked mackerel kedgery. And you said, uh. No, it was only the uh, because I'm used to doing it with smoked haddock. But I have had smoked mackerel kedgery made by someone else and it was delicious. Okay, well, please don't say uh next time because now I'm worried that she's going to be thinking uh. No, she won't be uh. No, it'll be uh. No, it could have been ah.

You said er. No, it was an er, quizzical er, not a er. Anyway, I'm going to serve it with a watercress salad because we will probably be eating at about 12.30. Watercress salad with raw grated beetroot. I've toasted some hazelnuts and I've got a horseradish cream to kind of wow yeah I think it's gorgeous and then I did make a granola because I've been making loads and loads of

granola which my husband eats as like a snack it kind of just handfuls like it's popcorn and I said that's not how you treat granola it's really annoying me that you're doing that the etiquette is completely wrong so I'll make a really big batch and it will be gone within like a day no but Sam likes cereal yeah he does but I just think he will eat it all the time and porridge yeah but my granola he's he's it's outrageous and I said please learn how to make it Jesse I don't think we need to worry he's got legs like matchsticks I'm not worried about him putting on weight I'm worried about me not being able to eat it when I've just made it. Okay, but no, be generous, Jessie. Anyway, Cariad Lloyd coming up on Table Mines.

Cariad Lloyd, thank you so much for coming on here. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Well, I feel a bit like Hillary Clinton, to be honest. And I feel like this is our offering to say well done for beating us in the podcast yes you bloody did you won you won a different category wouldn't you no you were a category you were in a elite you were oh my god yes but you were nominated for another one and you didn't schlep to Leeds oh I was in a play

I'm in a play about death on brand and um so I couldn't go but my editor was there and I was in a play I'm gonna play about death on brand and um so I couldn't go but my editor was there and I was really sad not to be there I really wanted to go I'm so sorry no don't say sorry you deserve it honestly I think it was I think it's brilliant and grief cast is so important does it I mean I feel like you've probably been asked this though go for it is it just kind of it has it become quite a full-time job yeah yeah well maybe I don't know if you do you guys do seasons don't you yeah we I stupidly like so much of my life is like just decisions I didn't think about and I just thought all podcasts had to be weekly I didn't know there was another option so I just made it

weekly and then literally I recorded an intro where I said each week I know well I've got to do it now I've said each week on the intro you can make your own rules I know my editor was like you could change it I was like oh I don't know how to it's fine um your way of interviewing people it's not an interview it's a chat yeah it's definitely a chat it's like this it's like yeah but you really you know did you think that you had that in you to become you're basically you are a therapist in a sense you've become a a therapist no not at all so my dad died when I was 15 pancreatic cancer and so when I started the podcast I don't know maybe a bit like this where it's a skill you didn't know was a skill so I've spent 20 years talking to people about death and as soon as they would say oh you know my dad or

my mum has cancer I'd be like oh hey don't worry about it I've been through it let's talk about it because I was very open about it so when it came to the podcast like somebody said oh well you know what train how did you work it out I was like I've spent 20 years talking to people about death so I've accidentally been training myself and it's like if someone said oh how have you worked on this relationship you'd be like well she's my mum I'm like that that's just what we've done we didn't have to like go for a workshop and work out how we were going to do it what prompted you at the very beginning was it did you have a supportive family who allowed you to talk about that yeah my family were like very open about it so i described

my parents as like quite hippie and we would go to like family connecting workshops and like communes in Scotland yeah they were like very open so when my dad was sick it was very open with us and after he died we talked about it a lot it was never packed away at all we talked about it all the time to the point I said once my mum actually one Christmas said can we just have a bloody Christmas where we don't talk about it or we all have a row about it we all end up crying we just have a normal christmas i was like that's not our family mom so we're very open so i've always i've always talked about it very yeah easily and honestly so this um hippie family yeah no because i've listened to adam buxton oh yeah yeah it was great interview well

he's i love him so much his father just recently yeah he came really he was my first episode and his dad had died maybe like three months before he spoke to me but because i approached i sort of knew him for comedy but because he talked about it on his podcast i felt like okay you're in the sphere of talking because that's the thing some people however successful or famous you are they just don't want to talk about it was absolutely fair enough yeah so i emailed him and said would you like to i'm starting this podcast would you like to do it and he said are you trained in any way and i said no no i'm not and he was like oh okay and then he came along we just had a nice chat and he was your your first was he the first interview he wasn't the

first interview i did because my first episode yeah but the first interview you'd done? He wasn't the first interview I did, but he was my first episode. But the first interview I did was, so my best friend is Sarah Pascoe, who I love and I listened to that one. She's amazing. She's amazing. I know. I've listened to her on Dolly Alderton's Love Stories. Oh God, yeah, yeah.

She's made me cry. It's like all this cross-pollinate, like it's kind of all, she's brilliant. Mum, you'd love her. Yeah. She's completely inappropriate and I love her. How do I know her? Stand up. She does loads of panel shows. She's on telly constantly. Yeah. And she's often mom you'd love her yeah she's completely inappropriate and i love her i know her stand up she does loads of panel shows yeah she's on telly yeah and she's often on the radio yes yeah did you meet through the circuit no we met at uni we met before like either of us were doing anything so like we're like proper like she's lived with me and my mom in north london

carrie ad lloyd is not a north london no it is not it is not it is a welsh name yeah it's a welsh name so my dad's side of welsh yeah okay yeah but it's you're quite right it's not a north london yeah because having grown up in north london but so sarah lived with you and your mom yeah she lived with me and my mom for ages after uni because we both wanted to be actors and we had no money so she moved into my brother's old room and uh yeah it was like you're like sisters yeah we are like sisters and she has two other sisters so like real sisters so she moved into my brother's old room and uh yeah it was like you're like sisters yeah we are like sisters and she has two other sisters so like real sisters so she treats me i'm like i get roped into the sister ship whereas i have a brother so i'm always very confused what is happening

because we saw fights by you know a punch and a cry and that's very different yeah so different i've had to learn how to be a sister yeah i think i've got the hang of it now but yeah sorry so pasco was my first one because i said to her i've got this idea can i practice on you and she was like i haven't got any proper ones i was like granddad's count grandparents count i thought hers was really touching it's lovely and i kind of loved it when you said have you got so what was your grandma like and she went well because she's dead i can be like can speak quite frankly yeah yeah she didn't like her much. Yeah. I thought it was kind of so frank.

But she talks about her granddad and kind of, her dad, the amazing thing, her dad decided, he wanted to say, he's going to tell the kids, your granddad's died,

but he wanted to be cheery. So he bought them cream cakes. So they were like, oh, cream cakes, cream cakes. She's got two sisters and they were buying into the cream case he said your granddad's died so she was like this mix of like amazing sweet lovely cream cake and the noise the knowledge that my granddad's just died she was like it was the worst

but he thought that's good they'll be happy they're eating cakes so now does she associate cream cakes with her grand well she's a vegan so put put that together, therapist. There you go. No, she was really brilliant. And kind of, you know, also kind of talking about food and grief. You kind of touched on that. Yeah, we did actually. And I guess you've done, how many episodes have you done now? 56 now. Oh, you're very nice.

That's great. But has food come into it quite a lot? Because I can imagine it's quite a poignant... It depends on the person. Right. The first time it really came in, there was was amazing writer called Nikesh Shulker um and he he wrote a book called Coconut Unlimited and um he was the first time I really connected food and grief I hadn't really I just hadn't made that connection because my family have interesting relationship with food

and he talked about after his mum died needing that uh indian cooking and not being able to get that specific type you know region of cooking and trying to cook his mum's recipes and finding her recipe book and then he created a show where he would cook they recreated his mum's kitchen and he would cook for 12 people and talk about her and it was like a sort of theater show in bristol oh wow and that was the first time I was like of course like that memory that taste that can take you back to you know and then Jess Foster who does an amazing podcast called hoovering all about um eating but with uh she interviews comedians about eating and I interviewed her and she was talking about her Austrian grandmother and the soups she used to make and her trying to make them now for her son

and I was like of course it's a memory like I haven't really that's it's interesting because when my sister died her children kept her recipe book oh yeah that was really important because she was a great cook and they wanted her particular recipes for certain things I've heard a lot of people doing that and trying to get them reprinted so like yeah all those bits of paper that sort of falling out you kind of make into a proper and I know that my grandmother had a recipe for a Christmas pudding that we can't find anywhere and it was the best recipe because it had big glace cherries in it and it tasted great but I don't think anybody kept it we need it for the the cookbook. I know. Is, you know, you're a comedian.

Right, first and foremost. What would you say you are first and foremost? Writer, actress? Comedian, writer, actor, improviser. It depends what day of the week it is. Oh, really? Yeah, podcaster. At the moment, I'm in a play,

but I'm also, I've also just written the panto for the Lyric Hammersmith. Nice! I'm also in panto rehearsals. Hon, you've written a panto? Yeah,written okay with the director so is it based on an old yeah they do the lyric have like a rotor so i'm we just got given dick whittington oh wow yeah so are you happy with that choice yeah no it's great it's just like are you gonna be in it no no i'm just writing it's really nice so we just it's all it's written they start a girl or a boy yeah it's a boy very nice guy called luke um is it on this christmas

yeah yeah it's brilliant so when does it start i think it's the end of november okay yeah because everyone gets into christmas like now don't they yeah i think it's like from the 24th or something like that okay but um the lyric because it's a theater it's not like it's not like a famous person variety show it's like a play really with some pop songs so which pop songs have you got in there are you allowed to talk about i am it's just honestly i'm the oldest person because like that constantly i was suggesting stuff they're like it's not current enough carry on oh god so what have you got in there i had to google like cool song i literally google hot summer songs what oh my god you're such a mom because i didn't know

i know me and the director jude we just had no clue so a paloma faith one is in there so what what paloma faith song oh okay sagala yeah yeah is that her yeah yeah okay great paloma and sagala oh god um but like we were like fighting to get it we've got um fairy tale of new york and we managed to get that oh well done yeah we were like trying to get, we've got, um, very tired of New York and we managed to get that in. Oh, well done. Yeah. We were like trying to get the old school. I honestly can't even, oh, there's another, there's a step song in there. Brilliant.

Scared of the dog or something. I don't know that one. Yeah. My manager manages steps. I'll be very happy to know that. Yeah, there's a step song. Um, who was the cook in your family? Was your dad a good cook?

Um, so my dad loved food. And I think probably would have been quite good, but was working a lot. And my mum will kill me, but she was not a cook. So my mum is originally from the East End, and then they moved to Essex. And she claims she tried to bring us up on organic whole wheat whole wheat stuff but she's a hippie yeah but we moaned so she would decant you know like the non-sugar ketchup into Heinz bottles and we would to try and get us to use it but my brother was like oh my god just on it he would literally put out and go this is this is the weird ketchup and she'd do like um swap the cornflakes like

into Kellogg's boxes to try and pull it. But we knew every time. So she kind of gave up the fight. And we ended up on a lot of Finder's crispy pancakes. Nothing wrong with that. Until when I met my husband, my now husband, he once said to me, I'm going to, why don't I just make a pasta sauce? And I laughed because I said, how would you make a pasta sauce?

I said, who are you? Lloyd Grossman. Because I didn't know. What do you mean? I didn't know. I thought it came in jars. I couldn't conceive of, what do you mean, make it? So, you know, you're a bit like Joe Dempsey. It was, everything was in jars.

So, like, we'd have tuna and sweet corn pasta or Lloyd Grossman tomato pasta. Or we'd have Finder's crispy pancakes, potato waffle. Like, there was set. I remember when Lloyd Grossman pasta sauces came out. A bit pos that putinesco sauce was bloody it was nice it was nice yeah yeah so when he started he was like well it's just tomato he started frying garlic i was like i don't understand what's happening so uh did i take it then are you not much of a cook i am a baker oh okay yeah i'm well cakes rather i can do bread but I'm like cakes and stuff. I'm amazing at cakes. Oh, no.

I know, I should have bought them. Tell me what your best cake is. Well, my best is a pavlova. I'm famous for my pav. Okay. What is your special? You're a good meringue maker. I'm a very good meringue maker.

And I don't brag about some things. There are people that can make meringues in this world. The world's divided. Yes. The meringue makers and the non-merangue makers. I'm a good meringue maker. I don't know what it is because i can cook but my meringues aren't the best i think your meringues are good they're okay

but i've got friends who can't cook shit and they've got meringues yeah that's what i'm like bunches of flowers you can do like the otolenghi style meringues uh yeah i can do them like kind of yeah but i like the really chewy ones me too how do you make them chewy so tell us your quantities so I do six egg whites 350 grams of sugar yeah and then the trick is yeah you've got to get your sugar I am addicted to sugar

that's why I like cooking for things that I like which is cake okay and then the trick is I can't remember the exact measurements but it's like a tablespoon of vinegar

and a tablespoon of corn flour yeah mix that in you don't do that yeah I do corn flour and vinegar and that's where you get the chewy from that's the vinegar and you can use corn flour yeah mix that in you don't do that I do corn flour and vinegar and that's where you get the chewy from and you can use

the old malt vinegar it doesn't matter okay and that will make your meringue slightly brown but I don't care I'm not bothered some people want

the white white meringue but I don't know and then the trick is it's putting the sugar in a teaspoon at a time and people a teaspoon at a time and keep whisking

it's taken about two years to make a meringue and people rush and they go oh I can't be bothered that's how you ruin it a teaspoon at a time and keep whisking. It's taken about two years to make them around. And people rush and they go, oh, I can't be bothered. That's how you ruin it. A teaspoon at a time. Do you whisk or fold in the sugar?

Whisk. So whisk, get them really stiff. And then I do it as I'm going. So I'm whisking with the electronic one. Cariad is whisking. I'm whisking. She's magically whisking. And then with that teaspoon, you're like this.

So you're doing it like regularly. You hold the whisk in your left hand. Yeah, I hold it in my left hand like that. And keep going, keep stirring. And then then just and do not rush the sugar i swear i think that's what makes it can we put that in our cookbook as carry out yes yeah yeah i'll send you the proper thing can you tell me what temperature your oven's on oh i think because there's a big debate about whether you have it on low low low i would do like 130 130 i think 150 fan yeah 150 yeah low and then for an hour you cook it for an hour yeah cook it slow see i would say 150 is quite high oh really yeah depends on your oven right we have she knows how to make them and you

don't so no it depends on your oven because i've a shit oven at the moment and my mum's house my mum does no cooking so the oven is shit so that's why I learnt my pavlova and I learnt it for the mum's oven so for shit ovens

adjust for your oven yeah if you've got like her oven literally like you might as well stand next to it to get warm the heat's just leaking out of it so I think that's why I did 150

for that one yeah if you've got a good new one probably lower yeah I love a pav what do you put on your pavlova i can't i just love a raspberry pav i love it um whipped cream i don't add the sugar to the cream some people do but i've got nothing you don't need to you've just done 350 grams yeah and then i do raspberries and then half a passion fruit and then chopped mint leaves gorgeous gorgeous that. Gorgeous. That is my... I wish I'd known that you were a sweet person.

Oh, sorry. I did try and feed that in. Because I heard one where you were talking about puddings and I was like, oh gosh, tell them. I did make a healthy granola. You can have some of that.

Everyone loves granola, Jess. I've got some compote and granola you can have as well. Honestly, anything sweet. Anything. So besides pavlova, what else? victoria sponges chocolate cakes chocolate light are they light very light i pride myself on my lightness i'm loving this confidence oh yeah honestly you know what i'm not a confident person but you know when like things you know you can do it yeah i am good

at pavlova all hats suit me and i'm a really hot dancer that is what okay those are things those are facts the cake the hat and the dance yeah yeah if i was single but there's a lot of other things i have no faith in myself at all but we won't focus on those no but like i want to know what your dance song yeah i do as well i dance it i dance since she's got steps in the pantomime she's a hot dancer i don't my joke was i dance like a stripper whose dad didn't love her. Oh, wow. A bad girl. Yeah, it's bad.

And it's always really funny because nobody ever expects it, I think. I think I give off not that vibe. But yeah, I dance like... You sound like a pole dancer. Yeah, it looks like a pole dancer. I like the sound of it. What's your favourite sort of music? Well...

Are you hip- hop or old soul? No, I really love listening to soul, Motown, like a massive David Bowie fan, Joni Mitchell. Yeah. But when I'm dancing... Can't really pole dance today. No, when I'm dancing, it's like...

Oh, you know, Beyonce's the best, I think. You cannot beat Beyonce. Yeah, crazy enough. Yeah. And can you move your bottom like Beyonce? Yeah, not bad. Oh, God. Wow.

Damn it. Why is this a podcast? Yeah. Own each step with Peloton. From their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so.

If you've got five minutes or 50, Pel tread has workouts you can work in or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs walks and hikes led by expert instructors on the peloton app call yourself a runner peloton all access membership separate learn more at one peloton.ca slash running because i'm really hungry and we've only got an hour with you more because you've got lots of important things to be doing i'm going to start cooking brilliant so while jess is cooking i'll i'll deputize and ask what she normally asks what would be she uses the word last supper I'm perfect person I know you are it's fine go for it okay what would be your last supper no we'll have more than one course aren't we yeah oh it's I know because I do listen to the show and I love it

but I but I'm it's tricky I I'd like to start with a prawn cocktail if I may so many people I know I know but I just love a prawn cocktail and it reminds so many people have i know i know but i just love a cocktail and it reminds me of being a kid so it's very comforting because we used to have prawn cocktail and like that was like a real treat you're going out dinner yeah and also i haven't got past the moment my mum blew my mind by mixing mayonnaise and ketchup and making that thousand yeah and i was like what we could have this sauce all the time she was like yeah it's brilliant oh it's brilliant yeah really good um or like scampi little scampi scampi fried or or kind of fried in batter yeah if i did better oh proper scampi yeah i went to hawks more the other day oh did you

oh i love hawks more yeah they do now they've got a new one that's just fish in town. And then we didn't go to that one, but they had a scampi with like asparagus and it was, oh, my mouth's watering thinking about it. It was so good. But then I probably would like two puddings, please. So you're skipping your main course. Is it going to be scampi and chips?

No, I... Or scampi with the asparagus? Yeah, probably that scampi because gonna is it gonna be scampi and chips no i or scampi with the asparagus yeah probably that that scampi because it was so nice yeah and i'm just not i'm i said i'm such a sugar themed that i might i don't know i'm gonna die anyway so don't worry because i don't need i need my mains to stop me being hungry that's the main reason okay so you would so i don't want to be hungry if i'm dead skip straight yeah good okay so i don't know if i even want the prawn cocktail now can i have three okay three puddings okay just because it's you okay yeah okay let's have three puddings so then i'd like a pavlova yeah that i haven't

made yeah because you know and would you have the same raspberries yeah passion fruit then i would like this is one of the best puddings i've ever had and we had it at the have you ever been to the is it called the sportsman it's yeah just oh no i've not been all i want to do is go to the sports it's very hard to get in yes we were so lucky we were in whitstable and they we tried to win the cancellation and even better i didn't know i was pregnant and so i ate all the oysters because I didn't know and then I was like thank god I went there do you like oysters

I love oysters yeah I do like oysters Dolly Alderton does yeah although I did have a bad experience so now I will only eat them at the bestest restaurants

I've never risked them again but we're not having oysters because you were having three puts and you've had pavlova so pavlova and then I'd want something chocolatey

like maybe just a really good chocolate brownie or like a You've had pavlova. So pavlova. And then I'd want something chocolatey. Like maybe just a really good chocolate brownie. Or like a... Just something chocolatey. I don't mind. Like a chocolate tart. Or like a pecan and chocolate tart. Or pear and chocolate fangipan. Oh, wow.

From a particularly Parisian deli that I used to go to and then where is it Mami Gato it's on Rue Cherche du Midi uh in the oh maybe 12th arrondissement it's amazing it's one of the best cake places I've ever been to and we lived in Paris for a tiny amount of time and we used to go there every day you and your husband yeah and uh but the pudding I had at the sportsman was oh my god it was an apple souffle rambly apple souffle with burnt caramel ice cream and they put the ice cream on top of the souffle and it like sank and then as you ate it i can't it was really theatrical the whole thing yeah but not so showy that it was like annoying it annoying. It was just like, oh, my God, this is beautiful. It tasted of autumn.

It tasted of bonfires, leaves, and autumn. Like, it smelled like, it tasted of that smell on, like, just because it was, like, the caramel and the apple. Did you eat it in autumn? No, we didn't. And it transported me to, like, every crisp autumn morning you've ever had, and it was the most delicious. Bonfire night. Yeah. My mouth is watering thinking about it. me to like every crisp autumn morning you've ever had and it was the most delicious night yeah it

was my mouth is watering thinking about it so yeah i'd have a pet the pear and chocolate frangipane would i have a path yeah sure path any any pudding i'd have three puddings do you ever use lemon curd with your pebble over i haven't done i love lemon curd though a lot well if you love lemon curd i mean i do a roulade which is friend with the cream as well with the passion fruit cream oh and lemon curd oh my god and then roll it up it's delicious i do a chocolate log yeah you log yeah that's what do you yeah but i'm not very i'm not great at getting the roulade but then it doesn't matter with chocolate love does it keep going i just put the icing sugar i think the thing is not to be scared of roulades. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, once you do.

And to accept it's going to crack. It's not going to look like a Swiss roll, you know. And then that's, mine always very flat. Yeah. Oh. But you know what I mean? Yeah. As in the shape is flat.

Yeah. The sponge is good. I don't doubt the sponge. Can you make a Genoese sponge? You know, I'm a great... Yeah, I've made Genoese, yeah. Would you heat something? Yeah.

But I, because I really follow recipes to the letter yeah and so i made a genoese sponge when i was about 17 but i didn't know it's genoese but i just wanted to make this lavender cake so i just did it because i was like well i just now i remember reading going oh i've got heat oh okay i don't normally do that and just so i think you watch bacon i do watch me too yeah but I haven't watched this series because I've been so busy. Oh, I haven't either. That looks delicious. Oh, babe, I'm really... I know, sorry.

Very sadly, you're getting like full savoury. I'm so sorry. This isn't... Usually we do a put, but we can definitely have the compote off. No, it's absolutely fine, honestly. I am happy with savoury. God, that sounds really ungrateful. No, we're actually not big pudding people.

I think my son is, and that's why he's good at it. Most people aren't fast. I am alone. Oh, I think lots of people would skip to pudding. When I go to a restaurant, I look at the pudding menu first, work out what I want, and then I judge the main... So you can fit it all in. Yeah, yeah.

That's my... Well, you are little. I shouldn't think you could eat enormous amounts. Well, I can eat quite a surprising amount. Yeah, especially of pudding. I can eat quite a surprising amount yeah especially a pudding i can eat a whole pavlova you couldn't yeah i've done it i mean i've made a pavlova and then like you know two people have had like say there's three of us we've all had a slice i thought well keep going i'll keep going and i'm because i made it i don't mind picking from the tray

table manners that's the name of our podcast yes yeah bad table manners what what do you not what what do you not like or what do you expect in others i i'm not too judgy because i don't think i have very good table manners oh just about you're gonna see i'm because i talk so much i have a terrible habit of talking with food your mouthful yeah i think i do i just can't help because i think i'll miss them yeah you miss your opportunity or the conversation goes and you're like i wanted to ask them about that like so i have a terrible habit of yeah eating my mouth full talking with my mouth this looks amazing thank you babe i actually haven't made it before so i i don't know if it's going to be delicious but um this is something brother cooked. My brother's a really good cook. Oh yeah?

I just thought because, I don't know, you're on stage later, you need some carbs. Yeah, no, they're good thinking and I'm trying to do big lunches. Yeah, because you don't want to be burping on stage. No. So we've got smoked mackerel kedgeree. Oh, smoked mackerel? Yes, which

made mum feel a bit funny. No, I love mackerel. I'm really glad it's mackerel because what it mum feel a bit funny no I love mackerel I'm really glad it's mackerel because what it normally is I'm not so keen on haddock smoked haddock I find smoked haddock very hard to

yes my husband makes kedgory with the haddock and it stinks the kitchen out okay we'll try this actually the kitchen's smell free to be honest

the smoked mackerel was already done and then I just flaked it in no it's beautiful so I I haven't made it too spicy because mum doesn't like spice. I don't like spice.

It doesn't look that pretty. It looks proper Ottolenghi. Oh, bless you. It does. Because that's why my brother's obsessed with Ottolenghi. Is he alright? Oh, what are you doing? Oh, he fucking always knows when the food's ready.

Sam's coming. And that looks a bit miserable and then we've got a beetroot and watercress salad where I've toasted some hazelnuts and I've done

a horseradish creme fraiche kind of thing looks gorgeous darling yeah I don't like spice. I'm terrible. And when I went to India,

they laughed at me all the time because I just... I can't take it. Everything was... Everything too hot. Me too. And my sister-in-law is Japanese. Are you kidding?

And when we went to Japan, we had this amazing sushi with wasabi and I... Darling, she might not be able to... Oh, shit, yeah, sorry. She's tiny. Okay, fine, sorry. This Japanese chef was in hysterics at me

with wasabi because he was like... He was saying there wasn't very much and I was like, oh, it's so strong, it's great. Okay, fine, sorry. This Japanese chef was in hysterics at me with wasabi because he was saying there wasn't very much and I was like, oh, it's so strong, it's so strong. I've just had cardamom. Oh, sorry. Delicious. Okay, fine. It's beautiful.

Don't mind cardamom. It's delicious, Jessie. This is so nice. Oh, good. It's like the nicest category I've ever had. Oh, bless you. Thank you. Do you remember what your dad wanted to eat when he was poorly no not when he's poorly he was

a big and i get this from him we're big like um pick up put everything on the table you know so my favorite one of my favorite memories is saturday lunch he'd go to the market and he'd buy prawns from the local market and then he'd get me to shell them and then on the table would just be like you know oh god like tomatoes and bread and cheese and ham and the best kind of lunches and then you just sit there and everyone would and that's like my dream is just like just be able to pick because my brother eats so much like hollow legs as my mum says so it was a nice way like you know you wouldn't be like oh my god I've got to eat so much you just pick what you want and keep going has your mum met someone else no no never i know it's um she she dated people she's yeah but she sort of she sort of jokes like when you get to her age and you do have to go back on that scene she's like they're all bald and divorced and full

of baggage and she was like i'd rather be at home with the duvet watching antiques rage show thank you very much and she sounds wonderful yeah I can't really argue with her you should have got her on with you yeah she's great my mum she's bloody brilliant she's really really like I'm very lucky I feel very lucky because my dad was great but my mum always says like if it'd been the other way around she's like oh you've been fucked you'd be fucked I'd gone, you'd be in real trouble. Because she just, a very strong, hold everything together, held me and my brother together completely and just kind of got on with it.

You know, Finder's crispy pancakes and all. And mate, well, yeah. What else can you do? You know, some people do fall apart. Yeah, it's true. I can remember when my dad died and I was really close to my dad and I can remember the next day walking not the next day it was about two weeks later and I was really grief-stricken

and I thought how long will it take for me not to think about him every single half hour I walked across this I remember walking across Waterloo Bridge and he must have been dead about a month I thought you, you're all walking past me. You don't know what's happened to me. The most momentous thing that ever has happened in my life has happened. You just don't know that Tuesday will follow Monday. I know. Because everything that you relied on just has been turned upside down.

We talk about a lot in the progress of like, it's like the tablecloth's been pulled. Yeah. So everything sort of looks the same of like it's like the tablecloth's been pulled so everything sort of looks the same but it's moved yeah and so you you feel like oh but my life is something's something's not quite right or i always say to my therapist it's like i'm at the deep end and i keep going to put my foot down i'm like where where is it yeah i thought it was there and of that you know not having that stability in your life yeah and what i love doing grief classes um i interviewed julia samuels who is a grief psychotherapist and has written an amazing book called grief works and she was the first person

to say to me that when you're grieving the part of your brain lights up it's the same part that lights up as depression so you know when we talk about depression and we talk about like oh you can't move it nothing you can do and obviously grief isn't depression but to understand that chemically your brain is isolating you is telling you no one understands you you're the only person who feels like that everyone's walking past you on that bridge and they don't get it like it is chemically telling you that which is why you feel so fucking awful but i think you think well i'd say oh i'm being silly or making a fuss but even when you're older and you so I had my own children when my dad died. How old were you when he died? Of 43.

Okay, yeah. It's really hard. I think there's also that thing of the guilt when maybe you do forget to think about them. Yeah, yeah. You realise that. The days you feel happy, you feel terrible, you know, it's ridiculous. But I think, I mean, I feel very sad because, so my dad died and they were quite young. And then my sister died.

Then my brother died. So they were quite young and they experienced all this loss. You know, it was just awful. Yeah. It is so hard. It's so hard. And it, that's, you know, my dad died and then my grandpa died. He was like my dad's dad who I worshipped.

It was very quickly after. Yeah, it was six months. He literally died of a broken heart. Yeah. he was like my dad's dad who I yeah it was very quickly after he was six months he literally died of a broken heart yeah and um and then suddenly all these great aunts and great uncles died so we had like I went from sort of not being just very normal kind of everything was kind of okay to like oh this is what the world is like is it like do you know something people who haven't experienced loss are not prepared for things in life and i know it sounds terrible thing to say that you don't want to but i do think the world isn't secure always

and if you've never experienced any loss when you're young i don't think you're prepared later because you're so totally protected from those feelings and that's when people don't cope i think and we talk about on the show all the time of the positives of grief yeah because as much you know there's this big movement in birth now to be like hey sometimes having a kid isn't all roses you know let's talk about that but in grief i feel like hey sometimes you're okay or positive things happen it's not the worst thing in the world it's awful and tragic and then like you said you get a strength from it which we all people who

are grieving sort of hide and be like oh yeah actually i'm quite strong now but i feel like we should celebrate that and be like i can cope with things because my dad died when i was 15 i'm fucking i'm quite tough and a lot of stuff that's happened to me afterwards i've been like yeah but you're not dead so i think we'll be all right you know and obviously it doesn't mean i'm glad he died no it's just but you that it's given you other strengths and skills. Carrie, thank you so much for being on this. And you really do deserve all the awards and acclaim that you are getting for Gravecast. It is truly important.

And I think it's been a pleasure to talk with you. They can't not give it to the death one, can they? That's what I think. A bit awkward wouldn't it she talks about a dead dad but you're not going to give her the award well that's shame on you no you definitely definitely deserve everything that's happening for you well i'm very happy but it meant i could come on this podcast and have the nicest lunch i've had in such a long time bless you thank you jesse she was so lovely i told you you'd love her i know she's just lovely she could be my friend so interesting i feel warm warm charming like the food and show offy what show offy about her

not un-show offy apart from about her meringues we're going to try that the slow teaspoons you can hear my husband cleaning up in the background he's a good husband isn't he no that's a good husband isn't he no oh that's a cliche um thank you so much for listening thank you to carrie ed lloyd

fabulous woman this is table manners and if you'd like oh shit we didn't ask her uber rating fuck hon she just texted me i think hold on text her back quickly what's your uber rating hon i was really friendly to my uber driver yesterday so let me see what's going on today i told my uber driver the other night he smelled great did you get an extra point i don't know i gave him a two pound tip as well okay i Okay, I... 4.46. Still shit. That's not very good. Hon, has she texted me back? Oh, whoa. Mum, mum, mum.

Cariad, 4.72. Shit! Not great, she says, but I ate in one the other day. It was desperate and I think it's knocked me down. Babe, that's one of our highest. That's one of the highest. Thank you for listening and goodbye. The music you've listened to on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser

and Table Manners is edited by the wonderful Alice Williams.