Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S8 Ep 10: Jamie Oliver

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

We were only going to do meals on wheels and travel to someone else's place if they were someone we have been angling for since series 1. And of course they were most certainly going to get THE chicken soup (I had a massive cold so it was selfishly suggested by moi). It's JAMIE OLIVER!! The Naked Chef, the people's champ, the person who taught most of us millennials how to cook.We grab Jamie at Jamie Oliver HQ after we watch him high five all his staff, kiss babies and see a team pickling sesh going on.He proclaims mum's balls are the best he's ever had, we talk a lot about family, the nostalgic smell of hibiscus, dyslexia, his wife eating gravy with a fork and holding back his cookbook Veg for years. What an honour to meet this gent. X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mum, you'll never guess what. What, darling? We sold out both our London shows and the Manchester one. Bloody hell. I know. So, due to phenomenal demand, I'd say, we've decided to add a few more dates. Jessie, I'm not Joan Rivers. Actually, she's dead, so I'm not. But how are we going to manage? I don't know. We'll have to get hired help. I don't know.

So, we've decided to add Glasgowasgow into the mix hi and then to finish it off we've decided to do a third london date at this shoreditch town hall three so that will be on april the 2nd so a lot of chicken soup and matzo balls to make we are so excited to be adding these dates so if you missed out on the london date that's going to be the last one there will be no more and if you're up uh in the north well in scotland uh please come and see us i love glasgow we can talk about mother india and deep fried mars bars um so the last final dates that are available please go to gigsandtours.com to get your tickets for table manners live jesse yeah she's just taken my chicken soup and my chopped liver. Yeah.

I didn't want to let it out of my sight. Why? Because I'm very careful about it. Hello and welcome to Table Manners. We are not at Lenny's house today. We're outside broadcasting. Tis isn't it? We're actually in a car Which has very good sound

Maybe we should do them all in here Oh my god That's the new podcast Yeah like Like the karaoke The carpool karaoke We'll do carpool table manners Take away

Go for drive throughs And eat things Okay so We are We have Never done this Actually we've done this once for a huge pop star where we've not done it at our house.

And the prep and the back and forth over this guest has been quite something. So we have driven all the way to Holloway to deliver Meals on Wheels to Jamie Oliver. Why have you decided to do this? Because it's kind of an odd time that we're here. And I think that Jamie Oliver

needs to have a taste of my chicken soup and chopped liver. I think so too. I think it's my strongest dish. Just slam dunk it. You know you're going to win him over with a matzo ball. And actually, because I made it a day ago, it's all gone like a jelly. Oh yeah, the collagen.

It's just so good for you. And you just need some, Jessie. You've got a cold. I've got the worst cold. So I'm actually, oh no, when I'm going to eat my soup, it's going to like start making it all stream. And then you're going to have to take over. I know. I'll take over.

Don't worry. I have got to prepare myself for the National Social Work Awards tonight. I'm going as a guest. Are you up for a nomination? I should be, but I don't think I am. I think I'm just there as a guest. Guest of honour. Who talks a lot about social work on the podcast.

Celebrity guest. I'm a celebrity guest. I'm a bit like the Jamie Oliver is on MasterChef. Okay, fair. At the National Social Work Awards. So we, yeah, we have driven from Clapham on this Friday morning. And we are going to offer up some super matzo balls and chopped liver. Have we brought matzo? I made liver. Have we brought matzo? I made, yeah, I brought matzo and challah.

There was a mad dash to try and find Miss Hamisher. Is it Hamisher? Hamisher. Hamisher cucumbers, which thank God Sarah found in a shop around here. We're at his test kitchen. He might ask us to test a few new dishes out. I mean, one of my friends, maddie is um one of his food stylists and i guess uh chefs and she absolutely adores him so i am really excited to meet him

everyone i think i'm going to the man of the people he's been in our lives kind of forever i love that we have come to his place but he's not actually here yet so we are like keen beans with chicken soup and matzo balls and we're sitting in a car and we're ready to crack on we've only ever done this for Ed Sheeran by the way I know

and I bought sausages that time you know he's special Jamie Oliver coming up on Table Manners way! thank you for doing Table Manners.

You are welcome. We are in your, do you call it the hub? Yeah, I call it my HQ. After about 17 years of having like random little horrible offices here and there, we also, initially we went to near Westland Place, near Moorfields Eye Hospital, Old Street Roundabout, because it was cheap. And then when Tech City came in, it literally went bonkers. So we got moved out because we couldn't afford the rent.

And then we came to Holloway, otherwise known as Loho. Oh, shut up. Oh, you are in Loho right now, girls. I have not heard about that. Do you not feel the power of the Emirates Stadium, Arsenal? Are you an Arsenal? Well, I am actually a Cambridge United supporter. Right.

Which, as I can tell from your sympathetic face... That's fine. But my son, he is a gooner. He loves the arse. And he's gone mad about football. And then because of that, and because of the office being 200 metres away, and our home being less than a mile away, I am now... A gooner. A gooner. My husband's a spurs fan and he'll hate me well he will and also he will be laughing at you today

because he showed me like this is like it feels so teenage he showed me he showed me an instagram photo they can't even fill their stadium and ours is going on? I just think they've had a... Do you want him out? Do you want him out? No, he's out. Has he gone? He's done. When was that? Like an hour ago.

Shut up! Oh my goodness! Oh shit! So who's in? I don't know. Pochettino. I just know he's been fired. Do you think Pochettino...

No. They were holding signs up. They lost again last night. So the thing is, the Arsenal supporters... He's a miserable man. I think they're protesting. That's why they weren't there last night so you know the thing is the Arsenal supporters he's a miserable man I think they're protesting that's why they weren't there last night they're protesting

ah I don't know that's just what I'm guessing but who knows I'm not an expert I'm a terrible terrible football supporter I am a beginner

my son knows way more than me which son Bud Buddy yeah how old's Buddy he is nine

and he just lives and breathes football. And as a dad, I just like doing anything that makes him happy. So I want to know, you have five children. Yes. Are you going to have any more? I don't know. Shut up.

It's not off the record. It's not off. I don't really, I've tried, I have tried to say no more, but it don't go down very well. And like, you know, I don't really, I've tried, I have tried to say no more, but it don't go down very well. And, like, you know, I don't know. Jules is a funny one. Why she wants another child, I do not know. But she's a real family maker.

I mean, she's such an incredible mum. And I don't know. So never say never. Well, I don't know. Is she pregnant now? No, I don't think she's pregnant. Right, okay, right. No, I don't know. So never say never. Well, I don't know. Is she pregnant now? No, I don't think she's pregnant. Right, okay, right. She's only got five.

No, I don't think she's pregnant. I mean, I don't think she's pregnant, but I think she's, you know, she's 45 as of two days ago, and sort of... So it's going to be a push. She's getting on a little bit, so I think she knows

she's got her last window of opportunity, as it were. She can get drunk this Christmas, yeah. She doesn't really need to get me drunk for a bunk up, but, you know um but look to be honest i um she has had to put up with me for the last uh well we've been going out since we were 18 and she was 45 two days ago and to be honest there's a lot that goes with being the wife of me like you know and she put you know um so i do my thing she does she's like family i this you can tell this place is slightly unusual

we've got some amazing really incredible food experts we've got an amazing campaigns team here that looks at sort of child health 140 people but some people? 140 people, but some real experts from crockery, art, design, the testing team. And we work with lots of partners and just try and help make food better wherever we shine our little light on, really. But there's a kind of, you know, the Jamie Oliver thing, as lovely as it might seem, comes with a fair amount of baggage

and Jules puts up with that. And then when I go home we never talk about work ever ever ever ever ever okay well then what what happens when you're talking about food like are your kids fussy eaters uh they all have a go at being everything I mean they're up and down like yo-yos I mean all of my kids grow up around food they've all grown stuff they've all planted stuff um but their palates and their habits of course change for better and worse i'm going through the beige period so i don't know if river's going through the beige period yeah rivers rivers just because i've got five you've got this kind of incredible what is meal times like though

it's carnage do you have to make different it's rarely rarely would you ever look at an olive table and go well that's a nice normal British family because it's you got two teenagers yeah and then you got a 10 and a nine-year-old and then a three-year-old so there's three and then adults so there's like three to four gears of types of conversation types of wants and to a degree types of needs in food so you know the teenagers want the kind of food that I want now so they don't mind kind of you know that although my kids have a bit of everything they can't the eight nine year olds still kind of like it a little bit simpler um although they're pretty good with a lot of stuff um they're good on their salads and their veggies and stuff like that but little river is hilarious

because he's just like he's such an oliver he's he's like he looks like me he's definitely my child that's for sure and he just goes carb nuts carb nuts and he sniffs out a biscuit for he's like he looks like me he's definitely my child that's for sure and he just goes carb nuts carb nuts and he sniffs out a biscuit for he's like a dog he'll sniff out a biscuit from a million million miles but he's um yeah he's quite you know he's quite demanding at the dinner table I mean Jules has got a patience of a saint how do you I mean we've just done this cookbook. How do you come up with new recipes that no-one's ever had before? It's a really weird thing. I've never struggled, ever, thank the Lord.

My brain works in quite a weird way and I often imagine how it tastes and put concepts together in my head and I'll build a plate or a dish in my head and I can 85% smell it and almost taste it and I'm normally about right. It's really weird. It's kind of like a slightly spectrum-like behaviour

to writing recipes. And I don't know. I think my dyslexia has been like i i've found it to be such a gift in my job like a lot of kids i talk to like feel it's a real disablement and because british education system is is constructed to generally recognize and pat on the back a certain type of student, which I failed everything. But I think when you're dyslexic, you look at... I'm kind of humbled and excited that MI5 specifically employ dyslexics because they look at problems differently. Why? I didn't know that.

So I find myself now... I mean, I think dyslexics just generally can't hold and compute certain stuff but look at problem solving in a totally different way and if you can nurture those parts of how you are and this is why dyslexia is a gift not a not a problem it's just finding that happy place sometimes i we work part of the social stuff that we do here a lot of public don't know but a really big if not the central part of everything I do here, is about monitoring largely British but international child public health. Looking at health systems, looking at patterns, looking at health, looking at things that we could do to protect our children. And it could be anything from the food chain to legislation to information.

And everything we do in the food world is very visceral to me and I really feel it and and although we absolutely fight for beautiful photography and and really well tested recipes and I sit there and dream things up and in my own little weird head I've kind of got this vision of an average Brit and I want to build enough recipes that are like cozy and comfortable and not too far from where they already are but then also always hang a little carrot of aspiration and like you know sometimes they take the piss out of me because i'll use miso but you know 20 years ago it was balsamic vinegar and now every corner every corner shop in britain's got balsamic

vinegar it's just like they throw it everywhere that's that's what i i have to say. Like, I remember when The Naked Chef, like, you arrived, and it was, you made cooking feel accessible and exciting. And I remember there was, like, this one, I was probably a teenage, how old were you? You were young. How old, when did it start? We broadcasted when I was 24. Okay, so what year was that? Dare I say, 99?

Okay. No, yeah, 99. So i was about 13 14 and i remember that i don't know if it was in that book there was this prosciutto covered salmon yes yeah and then you did this amazing puy lentil with greek yogurt and spinach yeah we'd sit and i'd feel the fanciest ever and we'd sit the prosciutto wrapped salmon on top of the bed of puy lentils. I mean, my mum always did this amazing puy lentil salad. But like, it just was, it felt really easy enough to do, but also looked like you could host. Hannah even cooked it.

Hannah, my sister who cannot fucking cook, that was like her go-to meal. And I just remember it feeling so exciting as a teenager watching him thinking this is you know this is really cool stuff and i'm learning but also it's there for the taking to be able to make yeah like and just even looking at veg it's not too many ingredients we try and keep the ingredients down which i think is really helpful yeah i think so for yeah and it's just and so i feel like you've maintained what you did at the beginning look it's the maintenance the maintaining thing is is an interesting one because like I was so grateful for so many years that anyone would even look at me twice or be interested but it's funny thing like it's the being an author has like So bearing in mind that I came from school,

I had special needs all my secondary school life. So, like... Where were you? You were born... You're an Essex boy. I'm an Essex boy, near Stansford Airport, Cambridge direction. OK. Little village called Claverin. Went to the local comprehensive school. What do your mum... Your mum and dad had a pub?

Mum and dad still run a pub to this day the same pub lovely pub lovely food everything done from scratch desserts the whole lot

ice cream so it was part entertaining was part of your hospitality it's the only thing I knew and it was normal

it was like most kids went down the stairs to like a front room mine was a wash up area and then a kitchen

and sort of I think my sort of utter obsession and sort of romantic view on our country is from living in a pub you know which is i think the most democratic place in the world old people young people my best friends were like gypsies cockneys we had the cricket club football club you know tennis club bowls club you'd have people that are driven from london an hour you know to sort of come and have a special meal so i felt very connected to sort of community um did you help out in the pub that's all i did yeah yeah because i love money and i love the concept of being at a save up and i never had pocket money and i had to work for it yeah but i love money and i love the concept of being at a save up and i never had

pocket money and i had to work for yeah but i always had a you know i always had a score in my pocket you know he's never 14 year old i always has nice trainers i always had 20 quid in my back pocket and i earned every bit of it and and i think like when you run a pub like so i'd clean toilets i polish the brass in the toilets you'd'd bottle up. You'd do the bottle basket. You'd wash up. And then, you know, you'd clear tables. You'd clear the ashtrays in those days. You'd sweep out the front, burn boxes.

And then, of course, the kitchen was the holy grail. That's, like, where the fun was. And was your mum or dad in the kitchen cooking? My dad was a fully trained chef. And he kind of was in the kitchen cooking or were they my dad was a fully trained chef and he kind of was in the kitchen but then pulled himself out and employed a chef so he could run front of house so it's quite a good place to be like to be running a food business and be a chef is good because you can act like a general manager but sort of think like a chef and and like any kind

of operational business it's all about getting stuff, doing as little to it, but good things to it as possible. And then getting it out nice and hot and beautiful. So dad still does it. He's still up at four in the morning, baking bread, doing the breakfasts. And it's kind of, you know, I think he should be thinking about retirement soon, but he won't stop. But, you know, it's an amazing learning ground for me. And I think when I started selling books which was never expected ever you know my first book went bonkers yeah and I think you can kind of you can luck out once or twice

maybe but obviously 20 years on it wasn't luck it's a very emotionally driven business like it is a business I've got you know I've got 4 140 people to pay before i get paid but the idea of someone using a book in their shelf in their kitchen it like is like my north star really and and so you know even book one like testing testing testing the recipes because there's no such thing as a perfect recipe everyone's got different hands how many books have you written now i think i've written 21 i think i've got at least five or six have you written now? I think I've written 21. I think I've got at least five or six. Have you? Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah, they're good books. Yeah. And they're all for different, you know, some are about nutrition, some are about speed, some are about cost. You know, this particular book is about veg. Yeah. And I actually wrote that book nine years ago and I was too early. So I held it and I've never done that in my career ever what yeah was it called veg before is it that's it was called veg but it was a much more

reportage book family cookbook it was much quainter with really sort of not complex but sort of embellished design and now it's purposefully very sterile very clean and and it's because i know that the public are reacting to a different language again this is dyslexic stuff for you like you know if you if you look at one of my if you look at my book here you know it's it's for a dyslexic you know you want to have white you know you have to really crave and respect white space and instead of trying to fill it up you know with kind of and being clear you know things like tray bakes which people go mad for you know doing a little play on a pizza but you just it's a reverse puff pastry pizza so a little bit posher a little bit more interesting but

you know trying to keep the ingredients down, but, you know, taking everyday things, little hints and tips. So really, you know, you have enough, let's say boring stuff in there in a nice way, and then enough exciting stuff in there, but really like fighting for white space. I know it sounds a bit odd. So yeah, I think every, every book that you write has a different brief, right? And, um, what's your next one going to be? Veg. Mum's going to have to do a vegan to rectify all the fucking wrong things she said about veganism and stuff. Oh, really? Literally, we're going to have to be like table manners.

I do realise. No, I do realise that we've got to change our attitude to what we eat if things are going to be sustainable. Otherwise, no one will ever taste a piece of turkey because we just won't be able to do it. Yeah. So I understand that i think what's interesting is all of our great-grandparents would have been very they wouldn't have liked the label but they would have been probably 60 more veg in all of their cooking even if there was a bit of meat in it it would have been shrouded by veg growing up so you were what you were in the pub and were you cooking at home

didn't have a home i lived in the pub you lived in the pub okay so that was where you were having breakfast lunch and dinner yeah so who cooked that mum so dad was a professional chef but he was he was very they were both running the family, but dad was very upfront doing that. But mum's a fine cook, great family home cook. And it's quite nice to sort of see the gear change between chef cooking and mum cooking or home cooking. Because they are different, aren't they? And they can translate to both, of course. But generally, when you're charging for a plate of food, you know, they want to be impressed by certain bits and pieces and blah, blah, blah. But, of course, I thought that my world was very normal.

What I learned when I moved to London 20 years later was it wasn't. My dad was one of the genuine old original pioneers of what we would call now a gastropub. So from the age of four, five, six, seven, there would be live lobsters and crabs on a Tuesday and a Thursday. There'd be whole lamb being butchered, whole pig being butchered, game coming in from randoms around the village, having snared them or shot them, pâtés being made, sausages being made. Other than puff pastry,

everything was made in the desserts. We were famous for our desserts and the dessert trolley back in those days. Oh, I love a trolley. I think health and safety put an end to that. Did they? I think they pretty much did, yeah. Oh, because they couldn't be left out, it has to be in the days. Oh, I love a trolley. I think health and safety put an end to that. What did they? I think they pretty much did, yeah.

Oh, because they couldn't be left out, it has to be in the fridge. But there's a lot of sugar in there, so there ain't nothing going to go off quick. But, you know, all those old tarts, and it was sort of Anglo-French, Swiss-style desserts. So this was where I earned my pocket money, so I didn't even know I was learning.

But you got trained, didn't you? I went to college. Did you go to Westminster? Yeah, I went to Westminster College, Vincent Square. And I was on crossover year. So I was able to take either NVQ or City & Guild 706.1 and 2 or both. And I thought, mate, I'm all over this already. So I'll do the double whammy. For the first time in my educational history.

And did you pass first? Yeah, I smashed it. And it was the first time for me. Because I couldn't quite fit into traditional learning. So you got a certificate. I got a certificate that I've never used, ever. And I think, you know, this is an interesting one for parents of kids of a certain age

and kids that are kind of going through school and thinking about university and stuff like that. There's such a lot of pressure now i see it i've got i've got a 17 year old looking at going to uni and having i've got one going through gc just coming out of gcses um the pressure for the kids is immense but also the pressure to be something like it's very to be something yeah but it's very achieving, but within a kind of very scripted kind of parameters, really. Would you like your children to be chefs? I'd love them to be interested. I mean, I think the nice thing about the food industry is you don't have to be a chef to be in it.

Or an author. It's such a wide ranging world. and it's such a fascinating area do they come and work here um my i haven't achieved any graft out of the teenagers thus far i've given them loads of options um and they could earn very well out of me but they're just not interested but they are working at school so there you go buddy however my nine-year-old is amazing he knows everyone here he is like as cute as they come he can use a knife like he knows how to cook he can put a graft in like he will do a 10-hour shift for real and he'll come with me when he's in school holidays he'll come with me and start at 5 30 and do a 10-hour shift.

I don't make him, by the way, before everyone starts writing in saying I'm awful. He likes being with you. But also, he gets coined for it. He's got money in his back pocket. He just bought mum... Yeah, he's basically me. He bought mum a birthday present. And Jules is like, did you give him any money?

I went, no. I said, dude, he bought that chi unrhyw arian? Ac fe dweud, na. Fe dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae know. I mean, you've done it. I mean, it's such an emotional rollercoaster. They keep you going, yeah. I feel like I'm really hungry. I'm sorry. Can we just start eating? Yeah, so what's the score? Okay, this is a bit unusual how we do this because we don't, we usually have it at ours.

So it's like a bit, so you would have had a proper dinner, but we've kind of brought a token of our love. So I made some chopped liver this morning and some chicken soup with matzo balls amazing which we feel like if anybody's going to accept chopped liver it will be a chef of course but some people are really funny about it you know it's got grated egg on the top it's with like did we serve it to a loyal carner do you know he's a rapper he's a he's a kind of he's an artist first. Bless him. I saw him go pale when I said short liver. Oh, really?

He went for it politely, but it's one of my favourite. I love it so much. But Sam and my brother, who have both gone vegetarian this morning, when mum was cooking up the livers, they were like, but I love it. Mate, if they're nice and fresh. We'll see. But listen, do you guys cook a lot of classic jewish dishes well yeah but like so yeah please do i'm most confident with jewish food to be honest i mean it's very old-fashioned

how mom presents it it's like it's so funny it's exactly how my grandma would present it it's like you know it it's a funny old thing, chopped liver, isn't it? I just love it. I mean, for me, it's pate, right? Yeah, exactly. I think they should change the wording of it. It just needs a bit of rebranding. Yeah, exactly.

Thank you, darling. But you do put eggs in, so... Great. Do you think you've got good table manners? I think that I have got good table manners. Do you care for table manners? Yeah, I do. I really care. And something that I'm trying to work on at the moment, although I need some kind of level of behaviour at the dinner table that isn't carnage which is

because we have so many ages at table yeah um I would love to say grace I don't I don't actually care what religion it is do you know I mean I just love the idea and the concept of saying thank you yeah for food and I get it after all these years I get it I get it I get it we all should be grateful for the food we eat and I think if you go back in the history of food which I'm obsessed by and of course you'll see this in Jewish cuisine or any cuisine is just the vulnerability of people they were so grateful for the food they got and so yeah I think my table manners are good most of the time I um don't get me wrong i like being on a sofa like curled up with a little bowl or something for me if it's just a

me night in but with the kids um they tend to go a little bit dare i say it um forgive me if i sound condescending american style and it's just fork fork fork action yeah action. Yeah, right. So I'm like, knife and fork. Come on, knife and fork. Feet down. Get that screen off the table. Oh, God, yeah. So I... That doesn't mean I've achieved the goal. No, but...

I've got five kids, so... Yeah, no, look, I can only imagine what it's like. I can only focus so many places. Do you have to... You won't allow screens at the table? I hate it. However, River is such a feral child. How old's River?

River's three. Oh, he's the three-year-old, the baby. I would say he gets... Sometimes we have to put a screen. This will be controversial, I know. Oh, God. But Jules won't care. But basically, most of the time he doesn't have a screen.

If he's not eating it, if you put a screen in front of him, it hypnotises him and you put anything in his mouth. I know, they're like evil, aren't they? If you've got a kid like River, River will go, you'll give him something and he'll eat it and because he's eaten it and it's not round anymore, he'll cry because it's not round anymore. So you can only do that for so many minutes.

But also because he likes carbs and he's not as much, all the other kids have been better on veggies and salads and trying different things. So he's like meat and carbs. So if you want to get some of the good stuff in him, almost the same as blending food into a sauce... Just let him watch the telly. ..or into a smoothie.

Me and... Not so much me, but Jules will put it on, and it does work. But we hate it. No, please help yourself. Just try a bit. not so much me but Jules will put it on and it does work but we hate it no please help yourself just try a bit but I'm pretty much zero tolerance

on screens at the table it really pisses me off where are some of your favourite restaurants where do you go as a family of bloody seven

where's good to where's to go this is delicious by the way is it good I love it very very nice I love chopped liver

um okay where do we go family seven nowhere nowhere would I dare I mean I know we're not that normal but nowhere with teenagers all the way through to three-year-old would we feel comfortable going out and not ruining some other people's day. So I would take my two teenagers anywhere. I'd take the two middle ones anywhere. And I'd keep it light and easy with the youngest, maybe on their own. But the teenagers have no patience for the little one. So you just can't, you know, you've got to try and... But to be honest, I mean,

the restaurants I like to take myself or Jules, places like... Of course I love the River Cafe. That's where I came from. Padela, which is one of my ex-students, Tim. Fantastic. Love it. Love the Chop House on St. John Street. Absolutely love that sort of food.

Last night, we were on a little laxer place just around the corner. There's lots of really interesting sort of smaller restaurants now, which I think is really exciting. I still love going to Raza, which is a vegetarian curry joint up in Stoke Newington. And I actually used to work in their kitchen. They used to have a kitchen in Charlotte Street in town many years ago. But yeah, I mean, I think the truth is, is though I don't get out much I know more about restaurants in other

countries than here because when I'm working in other countries we'll go out lunch and we'll go out dinner and we'll just rattle that for a week whereas here as soon as I finish work I just want to see the missus and the kids so where's one of your favourite cities to eat in?

Well London is amazing. We're so blessed. But I love New York. I love eating in Florence. I think San Francisco is brilliant for food. It's fucking pricey though, isn't it?

Really pricey. Melbourne's great. Sydney. Strong. But look, I'll sniff out good grub wherever i end up i mean literally you can put me in the arse end of anywhere and i will find some good grub like this this is delicious do you like it i love pickles i love this beautiful brioche style bread and my wife buys this every friday actually oh really yeah yeah well we've got a lot of jewish friends so we and we live in north london like i say, so we sort of experience quite a lot of this stuff,

and we go around our friends for Hanukkah and light candles and bits and pieces like that. Eat donuts. Yeah, I love it. How are you going to do your Brussels sprouts this year? Good question. God, straight in. So I've been enjoying...

There's two ways to go with Brussels in my mind. There's sort of longer and slower, and there's two ways to go with brussels in my mind there's sort of longer and slower and it's very fast so like i have brussels in a hustle which are like you you you you you rustle you rattle i actually use my food processor you can use knife if you want but in a on the fine cut slicer on a food processor i just put like a couple of kilos of brussels and then i basically go two ingredients butter and loads of worcestershire sauce and cook it hard and fast and that is just like like so like like a wok fry yeah so are they are they shaved or are they chopped up yeah they're waffer thin they're like when you do your shredding and don't push them through too quick so they go

even finer but then to opposite that if you what i have been doing recently my wife doesn't like onions normally i do it with onions so i use leeks what the white wife doesn't like onions that must be quite difficult it's a pain in the ass can she taste them in anything or does she just not like to see them mate i lose them in things all the time and she don't even say nothing she's not allergic to them no but you know onions hates them funny i put them in her gravies you know i put them maybe in some curry bases and i'll liquidize them out but does she just not like the texture consistency no you never know but after 20 years marriage you don't want to dig too deep you know i mean you just does she never do any of the cooking uh she cooks very well for the kids yeah um but basically i cook at home

and and to be honest why would you not have she don't cook for me like she might cook that she might maybe cooks me once a year but here's the thing i don't mind that because i just want to love her and the only way i can love her is to cook for her really do you know what i mean and i think um i want to know what you cooked for her the first time you ever cooked for her. Was that like one of your pulling techniques at the age of 18? Yeah. Do you remember what you cooked? Mm-hmm. And where was it? Was it in the pub?

It's sort of two-toned, because she came to dinner at ours, and Mum cooked like a roast dinner, you know, chicken with all the trimmings. So that was a good start. And I noticed an unusual obsession for gravy. And she was drinking gravy with a fork, which is a little bit disgusting. Jules was? Yeah, filthy. On the first date?

The first meeting with the parents? Yeah, and my mum gave her a spoon. Mum gave her a spoon. She didn't have a spoon and she liked the gravy. My missus loves. She don't see any difference between soup and gravy. It's all the same gravy. So I knew that I was into a good eater, because she's a good eater, Jules. I like that.

And then the first thing I cooked for her was basically a spaghetti bolognese, which is good, because it's like, you know, everyone likes spaghetti bolognese. I can do a nice one. But what I forgot is that whilst sucking on the spaghetti, you know, you do flap a lot of sauce. You were thinking Lady and the Tramp.

Lady and the Tramp, I was. But also, it was more like Lady covered in ragout. But I think she quite liked it. And I think she liked the fact that I could cook. But also, like, in those early days, like, she used to be a model back in the day. And she used to go on lots of go-sees and work in different countries and stuff. So I used to work, work, work while she's away, save up all my cash

and then I'd take her out somewhere nice. He's so romantic. You are romantic. Yeah, I like romance. Listen, I'm a massive feminist but also I don't think that discounts chivalry. No, I agree. I think bloody good manners and no matter where we go, it's nice.

I open the door for anyone, male or female. Do you remember where you took her for that meal or not? Was it, you'd saved up all the money? Do you know what? Because we were from a village in Essex where not really much happens, the bus used to only come through every couple of days twice a week um i saved up as a jesse excuse me one or two balls you give me what you think i need two thank god it wasn't three um uh no uh because i don't know i i very early, and I like the idea of loving people through food.

And obviously at that age, you're very much in love, which is great. But also I saved up hard and I took her to the Ritz. Took her for the Ritz. And we're from a little village. Oh, that looks amazing. We're from a little village in Essex where nothing really happens. So the idea of going to the Ritz is like completely bonkers. So was trying to show off you know um and we went for afternoon tea and then um as we walked out the the geezer at the door said there's your keys Mr Oliver and then we we went for we

had a night yes overlooking Green Park and I remember it was like 500 quid that's a long time ago and that was that was like weeks work um you know but i was uh i was trying to make an impression you did i'm sure i was trying to romancer um yeah yeah can you talk to me about matza then what oh that's delicious so this is um yeah i like it reminds me of consomme. Yeah, it is. Your balls are nice. They're great, aren't they? Your balls are actually better than mine. That's not cheese, though. Well, I think...

Is it semolina in there? No, it's just matzo meal. Is it? Are they made out of semolina? No, it's made out of this, but ground up. This is delicious. I love your balls. Your balls are the best matzo balls I've had. Me too.

Thank you, Jamie. Fucking get that on the front of the fucking cookbook. Jesus Christ. Do you know it's taken me a long time to perfect these matzo balls. I think my matzo balls are the best matzo balls ever. If you say so yourself. I'm sorry but I've got it right. I've just got it right now. I've had matzo balls many America. And? Leeds, all around North London. And I've even looked up old recipes myself and made them on myself. These are much better than all of those. I'm telling you. Thank you, Jamie. Well, la-di-da, Mum. You see?

I did bring it for you because it's my strong... Because they can be like bullets, right? Well, they used to be. I quite like them when they're hard bullets, though. Also like the big American ones where they're like that big Is there one aroma that really like brings back a certain like moment

is there one nostalgic aroma in the kitchen for you I mean there's lots right and I all mean different things the one that was like a punch in the face that was powerful because I hadn't had it in 36 years was hibiscus and i had hibiscus in um

uh new york in a very arabic part of the city and we were learning about the culture in that part of the city and the story of immigration and how they do stuff and he gave me this drink that was like a hibiscus tea and it viscerally took me back like to being about four years old on the Norfolk Broads on my granddad's lap and do you remember when you weren't very well when you're a child you used to be I go to boots or alike and they would give you um either hibiscus or rose hip syrup i don't remember and well you're a little bit a lot younger than me but um but i i hadn't had it since that day and hibiscus if you have never had hibiscus tea is the most joyful tea to have. And then if you can get hibiscus syrup,

it's like so amazing in desserts and even cleverly used, you know, as you would honey in some kind of salads or dressings or to finish a little glaze. Like if you're glazing something on a barbecue and you just sort of like, for the last 30 seconds, a bit of hibiscus. But hibiscus, hibiscus hibiscus it's an

amazing so that's that's the most powerful time i've ever had it but it was like a time warp but of course other things and smells i'm like oh yeah then student days and oh yeah that was um you know takes you back but do you miss working in a kitchen i mean i know you work in a but you know i'm cooking every day but um as as doing shifts yeah um i do miss it because it's a very it's a complex job but also there's something very safe and predictable about it it has a rhythm and a pattern and um i like hard work it is on your feet a long time yeah do you wear crocs when you're standing in the kitchen never no no i wear um birkenstocks and they're comfy yeah but for the first third of my career it was always like culinary versions of um dutch clogs that was the done thing that's what they're awful to be and they're so hard and uncomfortable yeah look i gotta say like when i trained to be a chef and i am starting to sound like an oldie

um standard hours was 80 a week standard um and i was pushing into the hundreds you know not the hundreds but like up to 100 like standard have you got any restaurants now I've got well we have 15 Cornwall in so there's still 15 in Cornwall sadly we lost 15 in London I lost all my UK restaurants this year which is awful and very upsetting and has been incredibly tough but we also have 70 restaurants in 17 other countries 18 countries around the world so it's um i'm not trying to paint a picture of this or that it's just sort of saying you know i mean we we try really hard at what we do we work very hard with our foreign partners and i don't know many british brands that translate into those i don't know any other i don't know many British brands that translate into those I don't know any other

I don't know anything else in the high street that I know of that food wise goes into different territories like that so I'm still very proud of what we've achieved the UK story was incredibly painful but I don't think well I know I'm not the only one and I think you know anyone that's listening to this that has a family business or a small, medium sized business, that it's more than likely that they're hanging on in there. I mean, you know, it's been so hard the last four or five years. Do you think you'll start new restaurants? I think I will at some point. But I think at the moment, like when...

Yeah, just breathe deep inside. The interesting thing about my restaurants is when you've had the best. I mean, I had it better than anyone else you know we smashed the brief we redefined mid-market dining we had like queues in all the restaurants for like years we absolutely we were paying you know we were paying above our competitors we were training them like no one else but when it started to turn, I've had the best and worst of it, right? And so I think what I'm going through, like any kind of, I guess, loss or kind of... It's grieving. Grieving.

I'm trying to work out a little bit like when we were talking about the book. You know, what's the point? What's my job? Whatever I do next has to have purpose because I'm me. So I can't do cute and tiny. I mean, I can, but I just don't think that's really answering the brief. So I'm going to sort of sit by and see what happens with Brexit. I'm going to sit by and see what happens to our high streets around Britain.

We're going to sit by and see what on earth happens to business rates and rents. Have you got restaurants in Europe? Yeah. Crikey. Yeah, and they're all doing really well funny enough yeah um so the interesting thing for me of course is that i whether it's books tv content or restaurants you know for a lot of people they only see what happens in their own high street like i'm very much aware of what's happening in lots of different places and what's happening here in britain at the moment is quite unique um in my opinion i think the word unique is a very reserved word you've only got five minutes i know last supper we need to know your last supper start

in maine pud drink of choice um we yeah we we need to know your last supper oh my lord um it's a bit of a tough one yeah because I think from a nostalgia point of view we I have to go

to my mum's Sunday roast dinner with all the trimmings okay so that's the main that's the main I think beef, lamb or chicken that's a really good question

I like beef because then I can have Yorkshire puddings I know but I feel like you should just incorporate a Yorkshire with a lamb or a chicken. You're absolutely right. I don't understand why we deny ourselves that.

No, no, but that was the way it always was. I know. So you're right. But do you give a Yorkshire pudding with your roast chicken now? Never. I know, but it's staged. It's ridiculous. Oh, shut up, Mark.

Come on. Dessert, I think it's got to be sticky toffee pudding with custard not custard, not cream I like both now you're talking my language I have cream on ice cream, I love it and then on starter, based on what we're having

because we're going from the end backwards I think I remember when I was seven years old and the first avocados that ever came into the country came in and everyone was like, what the fuck is that? Never seen anything like that before. And a good old-fashioned prawn cocktail.

With the avocado? With avocado, picked beautiful fresh crab and prawns, the classic Marlowe sauce, iceberg lettuce, chiffonade is fine. Oh, yes. And would make me a little pinch of cayenne and lemon juice. Old school, but nonetheless, full of memories and joy and happiness.

And what drink are you going to have? I think that at the moment, I am really enjoying a negroni oh aren't we all can i give you a negroni tip yeah yeah and this isn't like a like uh a dodgy tip that it might sound dodgy but like it actually works so the next time you get a negroni just ask ask the barman to put a teaspoon of limoncello in with it and see what happens. Honestly, I hate limoncello. I hate limoncello. When they offer it at the end of the day, you're like, nice. I'm over it.

I loved it for like a year. I had too much. Off it. It's like medicine. Promise me you'll try it. I will. Go and get a good Negroni. How did you find this out?

I got offered it up by a barman said just I said look mate I hate lemon jelly he goes just try it and the thing is there's that slight bitterness

that you get in like marmalade and bergamot and sort of grapefruit but it's because it's only a thimble

and because just brings it out it just somehow like superpowers it it's like a squeeze of lemon on a bit of smoked salmon it's like woohoo oh yeah

so try it and look you can only waste it on one. But remember that nothing good ever happens after three Negronis. Jamie Oliver, thank you so much for taking the time out of your... Thank you. I've loved my food. Oh, bless you. You are now very lucky to be the owner of a table manor table. Oh, my. And it's leopard print. Yeah, that's because my mother demands our bloody end pages on the bloody cookbook are leopard print.

My mum wanted it. I love it. That's going to go home with me. darling he started small he now has an empire i thought you're talking about the portions that he had no he did start he had double portions by the way when we went off air he went back for another one that was his third bowl. I love that. I know. He loved the chopped liver. He loved my chicken soup.

What an accolade. The best matzo ball he's ever eaten. The best balls in Britain. The best balls. He said he's eaten balls in New York, balls in San Francisco, balls all over the place. But he said mine were the best matzo balls he's ever eaten. And he went like this. These are the best matzo balls I've ever eaten. And he went like this. These are the best matzo balls I've ever eaten. Like a light bulb moment.

Should we do a pop-up chicken soup stall when the book comes out? So everyone will get a chance to come and taste. Your balls. My balls. Why is it so funny? I love Jamie Oliver. He was lovely. What a kind man.

Really lovely, lovely man. That is a bloody empire. A big social conscience. Yeah. I wanted to ask him about that, whether that just feels like almost... We could have stayed another hour if he hadn't had to go. I know.

But if that kind of is a bit of a hindrance, having such a social conscience, that you can just see he's so interested in helping and saving. Definitely committed. But yeah, as we left, I said, God, it smells like kind of sweet red cabbage, spiced red cabbage. And his PR said, oh yeah.

And there was this big kitchen that's at the foyer. She went, oh yeah, on Fridays, they all learn, the staff learn a new thing. So they were learning pickling. I'd love to work there. Can I work for you, Jamie Oliver? I'd love to work there. I'd like to go and learn about pickling now.

Yeah. It's really nice. Yeah. Anyway, thank you, Jamie Oliver. What a pleasure. I thought you might invite us for Christmas. Well, I think there wouldn't be any space around his table. There wasn't any space around his table.

No, thank you, Jane Mulliver. That was a pleasure. We've wanted to do this forever. And I hope you enjoyed the chicken soup. On next week's episode, you will also be tuning in for some more chicken soup. I'm just forewarning you. But people ask for it, Jessie. I have to give them what they want.

We should have chicken soup in the intervals. Instead of Prosecco, we should have chicken soup. At the live show? Yeah. Why not? Give the public what they want We should have chicken soup in the intervals Instead of Prosecco we should have chicken soup At the live show? Yeah, why not? Give the public what they want Absolutely We could have shots of chicken soup L'chaim!

It's brought my cold out even more I wanted to bring it home for you to drink I know but I felt like Do you want me to make some more today? Yes I actually do, can you? You're just saying that for the podcast? No I'm not but I felt like... Do you want me to make some more today? Yes, I actually do. Can you? You're just saying that for the podcast? I'll make some more now. Maybe I should start learning how to make it, to be fair. I'll make some more now.

Yeah, I need it. Okay. Thanks. We're back next week with a Christmas cracker for you. We are signing out of this year, 2019, with a corker of a guest next week. Don't forget to tune in. I'll just say one word.

What? Dragons. And I'll just say one word. Mother. Thank you for listening. The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.