Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S9 Ep 10: Emily Maitlis

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

In the midst of this lockdown we managed to have lunch with Dr Alex's favourite, award winning broadcaster and Newsnight presenter Emily Maitlis. We talk about Corona, of course, that Prince Andrew interview, being a flexitarian, the cake and cookie counter at the Newsnight studio and her love for a dirty vodka martini with 3 olives (my kind of woman). She hates a pud, her favourite food is Vietnamese and our Emily is insistent on having napkins on the dinner table. Emily Maitlis is on Table Manners!!! Lap it up. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my mother, Lenny. Mum, how was that? Did I sound like a newsreader? Darling, no. Oh. You certainly don't sound like the person that's going to be on next. You are so excited about this person. She has been at the top of every wish list that you've had in the past two years. Absolutely at the top because she is a goddess. And she's actually dr alex's favorite yeah dr alex who did two shifts on intensive care the last two days quite

heartbreaking really maybe we should dial him in he'd love it bless him he's like i mean the boy is quite antisocial we all know this but he's moved out as everyone knows but he's been socially isolating since I since he was born yeah but I mean you know it's desperate times when he's asking Sam to get him a PS2 I know and he has cooked a lot oh has he he's cooked a lot and there's a lot of stuff in Tupperware for him now but you know what actually that um brings me to say a big shout out to the mindful chef who are giving NHS workers 30% off all their deliveries. And they sent some over to Alex, which was really kind. And they're brilliant.

Oh, darling, I've got to say thank you to Mirabeau. I am in heaven. It is my cocktail every evening now. I have a Mirabeau rosé gin and some Slim 9 tonic. I feel like I'm in the Carlisle Hotel in New York sipping a cocktail. So Cosmos are out the window now. Darling I think Mirabeau rosé gin is the way to go. It's just so delicious. I didn't even know that they did rosé gin. Neither did I but it's fabulous. I didn't know that gin could be rosé. Neither did I but it's fabulous. I didn't know that gin could be rose. Neither did I but it is and you just get a little hint of pink in your glass. I wanted to know it's hard we're usually

together um what have you been eating this week mum whilst I've been away from you? Well I've always cooked when I've been on my own anyway so I've eaten really well so last night I had roast chicken with roast cauliflower and a baked potato and some sweet corn. And then today I've had delicious lentil and tomato soup. And I'm trying to not use my tinned tomatoes up because they're clearly at a premium. Along with flour. Who knew that flour was going for 50 pounds a kilo on ebay 50 pounds a kilo you cannot buy flour in the shops because people are trying to make bread do you want to know what i've been obsessing about what darling i'm going to make my own tacos at the weekend how i bought a taco press thing and my stylist now she went full Mexican at the weekend and it

looked insanely good so um I'm gonna do a Mexican dinner party with my mates at the weekend and also shout out to Laura Jackson who did taco Tuesday apparently it was like the day of the taco and she did her own homemade tacos and she's been doing this brilliant thing called making a meal of it where she makes everyone like lay the table and um show her what they're eating so they can make an effort in the evening so we don't just feel like we're kind of surviving on cereal and lentils so uh but yeah she did a taco Tuesday so yeah I've bought like that lime and salt thing that you put around the rim of margarita I've never made a margarita in my life. Quite easy, darling. I got this mango and this passion fruit puree stuff from HQF.

Thank you, Marco. And I'm going to make passion fruit margaritas at the weekend. Fabulous. Could you get me some cranberry juice, darling? What, for your Cosmo? Because I will never, ever get an online order again. I have my order that I have been in for four weeks and I will never get another online order again I have my order that I have been in for four weeks and I will never get another online order again but I think all these amazing local deliveries are doing such

amazing jobs they're fine except for kind of groceries like tinned tomatoes mum there's people that are doing grocery ones too okay I'll have another go like HQF I mean that's like gourmet deliciousness what's HQF high quality foods they're's like gourmet deliciousness. What's HQF? High quality foods. They're based, I think he's based in Tolles Hill, mum, Marco. And he's just sent me a bloody sirloin steak, salami that I'm bringing over to you, beautiful pecorino cheese, the puree.

Like if you want to feel like it's a bit fancy schmance, you can go and get some bits from him. Jessie, you've got to watch your savings, girl. I mean, don't, I need to watch my waist. That's what's, I mean, I love that. I basically, I kind of love that my record's going to be out whilst I'm in lockdown because I can just eat the whole time.

Did you see that thing that's going round? It said, want to know how to stop eating during quarantine? Put on your swimsuit, not your pyjamas. Oh. So, Emily Maitlis is our guest today I'm so excited I bet she's got some stories to tell oh my god absolutely I mean this is a a lunchtime table manners that we're doing and it's actually kind of 2 30 so I've eaten so I may have a cup of tea with her instead but I'm sure we can ask her what she's eating for dinner tonight. She's one of the most...

Well, she's an internationally acclaimed journalist. You would have probably seen her interviewing recently Prince Andrew. She's covered the elections, the American elections. She's a very dogged interviewer who doesn't let things slip. A nice Jewish girl? Absolutely. Always got a great blow dry too got a great blow dry fabulous style she wears really interesting clothes emily mateless coming up on table manners special circumstances

emily mateless thank you so much for doing this. Well, my absolute pleasure. How are you? I'm very well. Gosh, it's become such a loaded question that, hasn't it? Because I feel really well in myself. And yet I'm really sort of conscious that every day you're really, you know, around people who aren't and might not be. And it might be you tomorrow or your family. So how can such a simple question become so loaded?

Yeah. How's work? Is it just wild? Work is is complicated and invigorating and hard and worrying and a bit of a lifesaver actually as well at the moment it's all those things because we're we're obviously social distancing so we don't have many people in the office I go in later I do a lot of my writing from home now so I tend to get all my scripts done and there's no reason to procrastinate you know nobody walks into the office nobody tries to show you a whatsapp joke nobody you know all the gossip's gone so you just have to sit there and write and read and do that stuff and then I get into work about 6 30 and we turn the whole show upside down normally and try and work out you know what the story is and we've

moved studios and we've moved times and we've lost hair and makeup so it's it's sort of there's a sort of pioneer spirit I suppose which is weirdly quite healthy yes hair and makeup it's funny that isn't it because I guess yeah it kind of feels like the least important thing now but obviously you want to make I mean as I've made an effort for you today Emily this is my postnatal it's beautiful grow out beautiful oh please it's grease it's about five days greasy i know i should be washing a lot but i don't think i'm washing enough but i'm not going out of the house so kind of sounds like don't worry about it anyway um i usually we would host you at my mom's house and we would have loved to have served you a nice probably

Jewish dinner um however this is how we'll we'll have to do it but I just wondered have you had your lunch what have you had what are you having for dinner um Greek salad for lunch I love a Greek salad yeah I sort of I sort of bring back you know the sort of the oceans and the sunshine with me and I just think actually if you keep having a Greek salad the whole time, then you're always sort of not far from lapping waves and that sort of, you know, freshness and lemon juice and herbs and parsley. So that's my sort of go-to, that is my go-to lunch, my sort of cheer up lunch. And I gave my kids um my pasta um I'd made pasta yesterday for them

you made you what you made I made I made pasta and and one of them just picked up a kind of clump and said does this have bones in it has it it actually got a bone? And I had to explain it was just like a particularly gloopy sort of pasta attachment that I hadn't quite finessed. And so it was quite weird because I've never seen a child literally sort of scatter bits of pasta to the edge as if he was going to joke on it. So the pasta didn't go down a storm today, but yeah, but we'll try again for supper. How many children do you have? Two boys, two boys.

And how old are they? They are 15 and 13. So you're homeschooling them? Oh God, I'm doing nothing of the sort. I mean, luckily I'm working. So the eldest has just had his GCSEs cancelled. working so the eldest has just had his GCSEs cancelled and obviously we all sent out that letter yesterday from number 10 saying after much consideration we've decided to reinstall the GCSEs and he got the letter yeah he got the letter it's just like, yeah, no way. Shut up. No way. You're late. No. But he is incredibly happy not to be doing his GCSEs.

And the little one's 13 and actually is still, is being quite good. He's sort of, you know, watching the science programs and doing stuff online. And he's had sort of teaching right up till the Easter holidays so you know it's great I just love I love it when the sort of online thing actually works and school is going on and I haven't I've no I've just been a terrible parent running off to work or doing work and my husband has done really brilliant projects actually getting out old World War II letters from his great uncles and trying to map the battles that the uncles had and sharing those with the boys and trying to give them a sense of you know past times different battles you know sort

of exceptional times and so he's he's done brilliantly actually and that's what that's so it's not really homeschooling but it's like it's a chance to just sort of delve into family and and stuff that you wouldn't normally have a chance to do I guess yeah have you found that you've been doing lots of kind of uh baking like you know making the the pasta is that a usual thing in your household or is it kind of you you know, special circumstances, you know, you're going to try things out? I love trying things out and I love cooking. But I've definitely noticed that I've got more sort of physical with my cooking. I don't know whether it's because, you know, you're only allowed one exercise a day.

So I think I now take it out in the kitchen. So the bread making is about sort of pounding and mixing and bashing up bananas for banana bread and rolling out pasta. I think it's sort of become a, yeah, it's sort of turned into something which is not just culinary. It's sort of about exhausting yourself as well and kind of like let's you know let's mix let's pound let's and I don't normally do as much of that stuff so I wonder if that's related to feeling sort of contained and in the house yeah yeah I think mum said just before you came on that apparently flowers going for 50 quid on ebay it's unbelievable yeah and I'm really sort of conscious of that actually because um everyone's had the same sort of yearning or sort of impulse and and it you know I've got friends at work who and it's you

know it's black market bartering that you know oh I'll give you I've got the flour but I haven't got the sugar can you bring in the eggs you know so everyone's sort of trying to to find that the ways to to bake now it's I mean it's really it's really funny actually it's really it's really funny until until it's not because you know because it gets worse do you have an online delivery slot are you lucky enough to have always had one do you know what I haven't done I'm I'm lucky enough to live in the sort of center of town so we can get to supermarkets and our local supermarkets have been absolutely brilliant and really calm and there hasn't been panic buying.

And so I think we're lucky on that. I haven't done any online delivery for about a month and I got my first slot today. How? How? How did you do it? I literally, well, it was, no, it was bizarre. They messaged me and I think this is my theory is that if you don't try and get one, then they think that they've lost you. Do you know in that way that if you're loyal, it never really pays off? Yes.

But if they think that you're not being loyal, then they're like, oh, maybe she's left us. Maybe she's gone to someone else. And so they messaged me and said, we are offering you, we've got some slots through. Would you like one? Which I think is really bizarre. We are offering you, we've got some slots through. Would you like one? Which I think is really bizarre. So then I had to get my, I called my husband. Then I got my sister on the phone. Then I got my mum and I was like, right, what do we need? What do we need?

It was like sort of group council. It's like the elders of the village all meeting to decide what we needed. And then my boys came up from the bedroom and sort of went, you know, oh, what have you got? What have you got? Have you got Worcestershire sauce crisps? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, Maltaltesers all the things that I'd kind of forgotten yeah exactly and then it was quite funny because I just I sent them a message I suddenly realized when I was coming back from

work last night it was like the most exciting day of the year and I was like right early beds everyone one more sleep till the delivery comes make sure that we're all up in time for the delivery, man. So that was all quite exciting. Everything came and you sort of, yeah, you have these sort of moments of just, it feels like utter luxury. You know, I got some sort of more bread mix and flour and granulated sugar and, you just sort of it's very different

times isn't it I mean what can we say do your boys as soon as the shopping comes in eat everything and you say look if you eat it all now you won't have anything left for tomorrow um the Worcestershire sauce crisps will be gone I've literally hidden all the goodies. Do you know what I've done? You've got to be careful when this goes out. I'm just trying to judge whether they'll hear this. But basically, there's a toy chest of things that they should have cleared out years ago because they're too old for it. And I figured, my husband figured actually, if you put the stuff in the toy chest,

they'll never look because they don't properly play with toys anymore. And so we've literally decanted all the stuff in the toy chest, they'll never look because they don't properly play with toys anymore. And so we've literally decanted all the toys at the toy chest and we've put any chocolate bar, biscuit, crisp, any snack in there. And yeah, so it's like it's literally in plain view, but they'll never actually open up and look. That's amazing. Let's see how long that lasts. Will you celebrate Passover? and look that's amazing let's see how long that lasts will you celebrate passover normally if we're hit we're here we all go to my sister's and she does the most amazing passover i ah it's going to be harder i think we'll probably i haven't i haven't gotten enough thought i think we'll

probably try and do something online yeah we are too my sister yeah I mean my boys don't know the service as as well so I'd find it quite hard to do it my husband's not Jewish so it wouldn't be a natural thing for you know us to do as a sort of foursome particularly it's much more a wider family thing um but yeah it's I got it so weird isn't I mean I remember Passover nights for me used to be the kind of the terror of my childhood because they were just like four hours long. They always ended in a row. Everyone was starving. And the wine was always spilt on the tablecloth.

Terrible. That at least was the mental. But you know, it was like the sort of, if you did it with somebody super from my grandfather, there was just so much sort of grace before meals and thing and blah, blah, blah. And most of it we didn't really understand as kids. And then you start eating at 11 o'clock and everyone was like, you know, going up the walls by then. And so my sister has sort of distilled it into something really kid friendly, really fun. You know, everyone can ask questions,

everyone can have a good old debate. And her cooking is amazing. So yeah, we'll sort of we'll we'll miss that. But I think we'll have to find a way of singing a song about goats. Did you have a bat mitzvah? I did. Yeah, I did. Oh, you're you're a better Jewish girl than me then. So what was your party like? I want to know because we had David Schwimmer on and he told us about his, he had a magic party and for his bar mitzvah and it had like white and I'm always interested with what people did as party favors.

So did you have a big bat mitzvah? No, no, no. There were six of us, which is really nice. It was my sort of class from when we were, you know, sort of seven or eight, I guess. So we all bat mitzvahed together. And we had it in the annex of the cheder, you know, the sort of where we used to have our Sunday school. And so we just had a disco. We had a disco.

So we had the big posh lunch in the synagogue and um and I don't remember that being much fun for anyone if I'm really honest you know it's just like something that um that the sort of grown-ups you know have to do or do or whatever um but that was fine and then we had we had a disco the evening. And I remember exactly what I wore. What did you wear? I wore this, a red dress with sort of gold. Hello, Moods. Are you coming to say hi?

Look, he's here. A red dress with gold leaf and a very thin little belt on it. Here's Moods. Can you see? Oh, gorgeous dog. What is it? Is it a whippet? he's a whippet great yeah he's a slightly passive-aggressive whippet at the moment yeah but he's fine anyway yes so it was a

i wouldn't say my bat mitzvah was a seminal moment, really, in terms of sort of either entertainment and parties or in terms of change. But I'm glad I did it. You know, it was a good thing to do. I was bat mitzvahed with Emma Barnett's mum. No way. That's so funny. Isn't it funny? No way. That's so funny.

Isn't it funny? I think the thing I remember having to read a piece from Ruth in Hebrew and thinking that I'd always found languages quite easy. You know, I'd learned European, I'd done French and Spanish. And then having to learn this one paragraph off by heart in Hebrew was just like the hardest thing. I found it incredibly hard and I didn't understand why because I always thought I had quite a good memory. I could do the prayers, I could read. And yet that for me was, was a real sort of test of character of like, oh my God, you've got to stand in front of a zillion people and do, and do, you know, a piece off by heart in Hebrew. I was terrified. So yeah, it was, it was quite funny that. You were born in Canada.

Yes, I was. Yeah. How long did you live there for? Till I was two. So I don't have a huge claim on sort of cultural life as a Canadian, but I've kept the passport and my boys have passports and my son wants to study in Canada now. So I'm really pleased, actually. Yeah, it's a nice thing to have.

So growing up, what was dinner like at your house with your family we did you all sit around the table what's the kind of memorable meal that your family cooked um my mum was incredible is I mean very much still incredibly adventurous very much ahead of the curve um but she would always do she would practice things relentlessly so you'd end up like she had one phase I remember this really clearly where she's trying Indian cookery and she made gulab jamun you know those very sticky Indian sweets and she just kept on making them and making them and making them like perfecting them until we were all just kind of going mum please like no more like we're literally all going to throw up we can't have any more of those but she's she's amazing I remember her when when we had neighbours moving in funny enough like

in the 70s and she took around a big lasagna to the neighbours and they'd never seen one before you know it's such a sort of new thing to have this baked pasta and it was sort of can you can you even imagine in the sort of pre-pasta days of Britain but it was like that and so she was sort of she was she was a real sort of Elizabeth David sort of person you know Mediterranean love flavors loved herbs grew lovage you know introduced me to lovage which is still one of my sort of most favourite herbs. And you can't, you can hardly find it anywhere. Incredibly inventive. And yes, I mean, she's where we all get all our sort of inspiration from, really.

She's just, she's a very natural cook. She's what I call a rescuer. And she's taught us all to be rescuers. You'll know what I mean by that in the sense that you you look at something it's gone really wrong and you just and you sort of know how to magic it into something slightly different but but you know sort of reinvent it give it sort of um CPR and so she's sort of really good at she's really good at that um so I remember growing up, her making sort of fresh pesto and grinding, you know, the basil down and all that and making stuff that now doesn't seem that wild or that sort of new, but at the time was really, was really sort of exotic, I suppose. So was it not, did you do Friday night dinners?

Not particularly. Was it not? Did you do Friday night dinners? Not particularly. No, I used to play in an orchestra, Sheffield Orchestra. So I was out on Friday nights in my orchestra. My parents weren't particularly religious about Friday nights because we were all sort of, you know, three sisters all going off doing different things in different places. Funny enough, now it's great because I work Monday Tuesday Wednesdays um on news night and so my Friday nights are nearly kind of always at home and so now we light the candles and the boys get it and it's really lovely um so that's sort of that's sort of come a bit later in a funny way we did we did Friday nights I mean it's always been a sort of as good as you can as

opposed to an imperative when I was growing up it's like if we remembered if we were there if everyone's around we'd do it but it wasn't a sort of dick dick tat I suppose that's the truth yeah so how did journalism come about for you you know when did you feel like you wanted to I mean it sounds like you I mean I know you speak about 10 different languages you were in the orchestra when you were younger and you I don't know you you're you're an achiever like you know when did you when did you decide that journalism was the route that you wanted to take I didn't I I absolutely didn't funny enough I I remember choosing English to study and everyone's sort of going oh you know are you going to be a you know you're going to be an English teacher or a journalist then I was like absolutely not absolutely not I didn't I was

not very interested in the idea at all and I think it was only when I um I went to work in Hong Kong completely sort of arbitrarily and I didn't really know what to do you know that's the truth I didn't really know what to do I didn't really a lot of my friends are going into acting I And I didn't really know what to do. You know, that's the truth. I didn't really know what to do. I didn't really, a lot of my friends are going into acting. I knew I wasn't a good enough actor. I didn't want to go down the directing, didn't want to do sort of stage and living out of a suitcase. And so I sort of went off to Hong Kong. It was meant to be for six weeks. And then I ended up staying for six years. And it just happened to be a really interesting time of turmoil politically. And the friends that I made there were just talking about this stuff the whole time. You know,

they were talking about China and they were talking about democracy and they were talking about the rule of law and they were talking about what happened in 1997. And I absolutely, I think if I had gone somewhere else on that day in that year to a different country or gone to a different time, I would be doing something entirely different now. I just think it was honestly random, but it caught my imagination. And I went and applied for a job at the local radio station, which is like the equivalent of Radio 4. You know, it was done in the sort of British model then. And I was terrible. I was a terrible, terrible radio journalist.

I didn't understand how the news worked. And I honestly, I just remembered sort of, you know, all my pieces started, you know, today, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the sort of, you know, the head of news would go, Emily, you don't need to put today. It is today. It's on the bulletin. So it's obviously today. And just like really Emily, you don't need to put today. It is today. It's on the bulletin. So it was obviously today.

And just like really simple, you know, things. And I'd get sent off to sort of go and follow Chris Patton, you know, who's the governor, the last governor of Hong Kong. And Chris Patton would be going off to open a new shopping centre in Mong Kok. And it would all be about you know the wonderful business world blah blah blah blah blah and they'd come back and I'd sort of submit a piece and they'd go where's your piece and I'd go the shopping centre highlights some of the finest architecture and steel glass going up 140 meters and they go wait where's the clip about the human rights commission

and I'd say what and they go you know, you were following Chris Patton so that he said something about the Human Rights Commission or he said something about the Chinese prisoners or he said something about the, you know, the move of the joint declaration, blah, blah, blah. And I just, I'd completely miss all that. I didn't really understand how journalism works. So in a way, I think it's made me, you know,

much more appreciative of mistakes. I understand how easily mistakes sort of happen in my trade. And I sort of think I learned in a really practical way. It was never theoretical. It was like, go and make your mistakes, run off to the loo, burst into tears, kind of wash up, come out and start all over again. So in a way, it was quite painful at the time but it was I'm sort of pleased I did really makes me sound really stupid I was really

stupid no what I want to know is how do you prep and maybe this is a kind of stupid question but for say that Prince Andrew interview which was just it was flawless how hard is it to not lose your cool because you are as cool as a cucumber so there are moments where you come off one of those which is so high energy and you almost want to cry in the loo after that because it's the pressure and the stress or maybe you do live for it is it thrilling I mean I think I am quite um adrenaline driven uh I've I've realized that and I'm I'm sort of fascinated by adrenaline. Weirdly, that was what I said to him when he said, oh, I must tell you about why I don't sweat

because of the adrenaline. I was like, I'm fascinated by adrenaline. Then he told me all about the no sweating thing. But it's true. I thought I hated it. And now I've actually just had to recognise that it's very much a part of what I do and what I need and I know I sort of need my highs and then I also know I've got to expect my lows and so there are sort of crashes but all that is done off you know away from the cameras away from the interview I try not to bring that into the work. And I think when you ask about agitation, I didn't feel that at all, actually, in that interview. I kept thinking, what on earth am I doing here, really?

You know, he didn't have to do this interview. He was incredibly candid. He was really open. I didn't think at all, oh oh what a frustrating thing to say I just thought what an extraordinary thing to say I mean every everything literally everything that came out of his mouth was just sort of extraordinary you know as a journalist trying to piece the the story together and I think funnily enough I sort of I think I was slightly channeling DCI Kate Fleming you know I didn't have an there wasn't a I mean I don't mean in terms of I didn't mean in terms of like

you know oh he's a crook blah blah I don't mean that at all I just mean there's something so calmly forensic about the way she does it it's just it's really unemotional really calm really quiet but you just sort of know she's done all her homework. You know, she's done her homework. And that was the thing I wanted. I would have shown myself up if I'd got the dates wrong, if I'd got the names wrong, if I'd said something that he had to massively contradict

because I'd, you know, mix things up. So that was all it was for me. It was like, let me understand this. And if X happened, then did Y happen after that? And then why did Z happen? So it was, it was a sort of, it was just, it was just a question really of trying to make sure that we had understood the full narrative that, that he was able to tell us. And my biggest worry in that was like, if I have forgotten something forgotten something oh my god I'm going to beat myself up and I actually said to one of my producers like if I forget to ask about you know

whatever it was the picture just like jump just just tell me just just jump in just tell me don't let me walk out that room having forgotten to ask the things that I wanted to and also I think I've learned that you just this sounds weird, but the thing you always think as a journalist, you're like, oh, I don't want to be rude and I don't want to overstep and I don't want to come across as a rude heckler. No, you know, that's not what we're about. You don't want to do that. But actually, there is a sort of calmness that comes over you and you put on the mantle of being a journalist and you kind of go I'm not being Emily now I'm not you know we're not at a dinner party I'm actually just doing my job I'm doing my

job which allows me to ask you the things that we or the public need to find out and once you kind of have that cover it sounds really weird it's like your it's sort of like your own PPE you know your protective clothing is I'm journalist, that gives me the role in which to ask you the things I've got to ask. I don't mean that lightly. I don't mean it's, you know, I don't mean like to use PPE like that, but you know what I mean?

It's sort of like, it's your protective covering to sort of, to get you through something, which would be awkward if it was just like, you know, going around to somebody's house for a cup of tea. But so when he's saying these extraordinary things, were you just in your mind just kind of dancing and saying, thank you, thank you, thank you?

Because it was just kind of jaw-dropping stuff that he was saying. You are just, you just don't want to drop the ball. So you're not dancing, you're not doing anything. You're just saying, have I, did I follow up right? Did I get the right tone? Did I ask the right follow-up? Did I get the date right?

You don't do any of that dancing actually in the interview because it's like you're sort of piloting a plane, you know, until the plane has kind of landed, you're constantly saying, you know, you're checking your gauges, you're checking your speed and your fuel and, you know, all the rest of it. You're just trying to keep that thing on the right path and make sure that you're not going to my main worry weirdly it's not what he says you know the interviewee can say whatever they want that's that's that's the deal in the interview that's

absolutely the deal but the thing that worries me is if I've got the tone wrong if I've forgotten a question if I've screwed up the dates so I, I mean, I don't mean it, you know, sounds very self-centered, but it's more that you're kind of going. Am I still on the right track here? Did I sound too angry? Did I interrupt him when I shouldn't have? Did I lose something or did I misunderstand? I remember that happening in an interview I did with Emma Thompson, funnily enough, around the Harvey Weinstein thing. And she gave me this really interesting line about misogyny.

And she was talking about Weinstein and then she spread it out and she said something really subtle, which was like, well, you know, obviously it's not just Weinstein, it's lots of different ways. And, you know, you look who's at the top of the chain and our response to them. And she was talking about, you know, the US president. And I didn't pick up on it.

And so I sort of came away from that interview thinking, oh my God, I was an idiot. I was fascinated by what she was saying, you know. But then you go away and you sort of berate yourself because you haven't quite heard the thing that could pivot into something else. So I think that's the, yeah, that was more what I was doing, sort of feeling in that, yeah. You don't attend the daily briefings, do you?

Or do you get those same people on later on news night? Oh, you mean the COVID ones now? Yes. No, we only get, we're allowed to send one person from the organisation. So I think Laura goes, Laura Coonsworth goes for the BBC or Hugh Pym, who's our health editor. are allowed to send one person from the organization so i think uh laura goes laura goes for the bbc or yeah him who's our health editor so we watch them we try and make sense of them they're quite frustrating things but we yeah then we do our own programs later with with

guests so when when someone asks one of the government representatives, when are we going to get testing? And they say, oh, we've increased it by, it's going to be hundreds of thousands or 10,000. And you absolutely know that's not the case. And they kind of, you can tell when someone isn't quite being candid or frank because they bumble. I've noticed they kind of just don't speak. or frank because they bumble. I've noticed they kind of just don't speak. And then you get some response like, well, we've increased it enormously, but it's just not true. But if they were sitting with you, I imagine that you'd be more dogged and you'd be able to keep at them. But apparently at the moment that you're only allowed to ask one question, you're not allowed a follow-up question. I think the Skype era has been so brilliant in many ways for allowing us to you know creep into people's homes get guests we wouldn't otherwise you know the audience has been sort of more forgiving of that but the truth is that unless you're actually opposite somebody you know in the same room able to catch their eye, understand their body language, you're never going to do the same kind of interview. And those briefings are really

frustrating because now, of course, the journalists come through Skype, they get one question, they're not allowed to follow up. And one of the most frustrating things is when it's not even like they say, oh, we've increased it by X and you know that's not true. It's something even more fundamental than that. It's, for example, when you say, why aren't we doing as much testing? Why haven't we got our testing up to the numbers of the standards that you wanted to meet? And they'll pivot slightly and they'll do this diversion. They'll say, well, let me tell you

why testing is important. And then this spiel comes out and you feel it's so patronising, actually, is the word, because you feel like saying, I know why testing is important. I wouldn't have asked about testing if I hadn't realised it was important. It's like somebody saying, it's like if I said, you know, why are the numbers of unemployed so high? And you turn around and said, the reason it's really important that we have more people in work is because people have to earn a living and they also have to feel a self of self-esteem and, you know,

it's like, I know that. I know why testing is important. I know why unemployment is important. I know why unemployment's bad. I know all these things. Like, don't treat me as if I'm, as if you have to sort of filibuster almost a totally different response to the question. And actually, I think journalists in this era are quite forgiving. And by that, I mean, we had a Swedish policy expert on Newsnight last night, and he was fascinating because Sweden's going down a completely different trajectory.

Oh, yeah, they're doing the herd thing. They're doing herd. And we asked him, my colleague Gabriel Gatehouse was interviewing him, and he said, how do you know this is going to work? And the guy just said, of course, we don't. You know, it's a massive plunge. It's a plunge into the dark. We've done the research. We think this is going to work and the guy just said of course we don't you know it's a massive plunge it's a plunge into the dark we've done the research we think this is what we need for our country at this time but of course we don't know there is no guarantee and actually if somebody says that to you that you're a human being you're like i get this nobody's come across covid before covid 19 before nobody nobody's got the answer. Nobody's got the vaccine. We're all in the dark and we really want you to do the best.

I think that is the thing fundamentally. We want, sounds really obvious just spelling it out, but we want the government to succeed. We want this policy to succeed. We want lives to be saved. But I think if people were honest about the things that they don't quite understand or they were honest about the things that they don't quite understand, or they were honest about the shortages,

or they'd say, we were doing this, but now we're doing this. And actually we haven't, you know, we've left it too late to be able to get hold of the vast numbers of X. I think at least you'd kind of go, okay, well, that was candid. We understand it.

But when you're having stuff repeated back to you, which is a kind of truism, I mean, like one of the things they've been saying is, you know, when you say, well, when are we going to get the blood test vaccine? They've been going, well, you know, a bad test is worse than no test. And everyone's been repeating it. And you're like, well, I know that. That's like saying, you know, when am I going to get my car, you know, and the garage saying, well, you wouldn't want a car with no wheels, would you? And you're like, no, I know I wouldn't. I know that, you know, I know I don't want a bad test, just like I know I don't want a ventilator that doesn't work.

That shouldn't be part of the equation. And yet we're sort of getting these slightly, what's the word, sort of peripheral answers to completely different things that we haven't asked and you can't come back and I think that is in danger of of losing people you know when they talk about ramping up ramping up ramping up everyone's you know I had a sort of cab driver back from work last night he was like if anyone else says ramping up I'm literally gonna you know I'm just gonna bolt I can't ramp them but you know don't don't going to bolt. I can't ramp them. But, you know, don't don't treat people as fools, I think, because it's particularly a time like this. We're all trying desperately hard to make sense of what's going on. We all really want the policy that our governments and other

governments to be the right ones. But but if we're asking the questions that don't make us don't make us feel like we're we're being malicious because we're asking questions and don't make us feel that you know we don't deserve to be to just be given the chance to actually find out what's going on ask what's going on it's important I want to know because news night obviously is on quite late and uh but how does how does that kind of work with eating? You know, it's like a showtime. And I wonder whether it's similar to kind of how singers or performers before they go on, like, mum told me something. Yeah, Ludovic Kennedy, apparently,

he used to present a kind of the one before Newsnight. And he used to only eat lamb chops before he went on air. That's the story I was told, that before he went on air, he just had this plate of lamb chops with nothing else. I love that. So do you eat lamb chops? I don't eat lamb, actually. No.

Are you a veggie? No, I'm a something-tarian. I haven't worked out what it is. I try not to eat lamb or cow or beef or things that remind me of my dog. I mean, it sounds really weird, but it's just, I mean, it's completely, utterly random. I eat a lot of fish.

I eat chicken. Just don't really care as much about chickens. But, you know, that is the truth. Anyway, what would be my equivalent of the lamb chop? The Greek salad is my lunch lamb chop, I suppose. Evening, I eat early. So that's my thing. I eat at sort of kiddie tea time when I'm working,

probably for the same lamb chop reason. You just don't want to go on air feeling full and sort of heavy. So I tend to eat sort of 6.30 or with channel 4 news and then that's sort of it but the worst thing about news night is that we have this counter called the itop counter which stands for in the usual place and everyone leaves stuff or brings in home baking or cookies or crisp or sweet yeah exactly so it's I mean it's it's obviously it's it's a little more tricky in these corona days because you're sort of you know slightly conscious of of who's touched what and all the rest of it leaving stuff lying around but normally we have the eye tap

counter and that's where it's like a little watering hole with all the all the gazelles It's like a little watering hole with all the gazelles. All of us gazelles, not quite a gazelle. You know, we all sort of go and sort of chat and munch and natter and share our baking tips there. So last supper, starter, main, pudding and drink of choice can i start with the drink of choice yeah yeah um dirty vodka martini with three olives three olives always oh my god you're my kind of woman oh i love a dirty vodka martini um so that will be yeah my my dying drink choice starter i want to say linguine vongole with chili maybe i just love a plate of linguine vongole gorgeous

um i love globe artichokes so i sort of put that somewhere maybe I'll have to make that my starter with an amazing vinaigrette antipasti there you go sorted yes exactly I mean funny enough yeah I probably eat more like that uh what would be my main course there's a really lovely Delia recipe actually which is chicken thighs very slow cooked in sherry and sherry vinegar. Oh, I know that one. It's from the summer recipes. I just, there's something about it. And particularly funny enough, when I was at home, when I was sort of on maternity leave or my boys very little,

there's something very, very sort of reassuring about just chicken that falls off the bone, really slow cooked, really delicious, amazing flavours. And then you put a little bit of sort of creme fraiche in the sauce and whisk it up with tarragon. It's delicious. So, yeah, maybe something like that. And somewhere I'd have to get in just like bread, freshly baked bread and salted butter and strawberry jam because I think for about a decade of my life I didn't really eat bread and now I'm just kind of going what was I doing I should have eaten I should have had that just for every treat the just the best thing ever and so yeah so that would be it pudding I don't like puddings actually I don't really like puddings are you gonna go for

a cheese board then Italian maybe yeah sort of Italian cheese and then I wouldn't mind like a little salted caramel you know ball thing what they called petty for a truffle a truffle there you go a truffle but I don't like in fact I will go so far as to say I hate puddings. I don't like summer puddings. I hate anything with sort of fruit and chocolate and gloop. No, I don't like that at all. Not me. So I feel like you are really into Italian. So is there a particular Italian in London that you love? No, I'm the opposite.

No, do you know what? I hate Italian food. That's a really funny thing. I don't like Italian food at all. I think Italian's hugely overrated. Isn't that funny? It's hugely overrated. I would say my favourite food is Vietnamese, but you see, I wouldn't cook this. My favourite food is Vietnamese. I love pho. I love chillies. I love prawns. I love Chinese. I would, yeah, I would say, I would say if I had to choose my cuisines, I'd say Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, Japanese above anything.

Six years in Hong Kong. Yeah. Yeah. I go for flavor over everything. But weirdly, the things I like eating and the things that I enjoy cooking tend to be slightly different. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of one is a relaxing sort of process, isn't it? And the other is like, oh, I just want I just want this amazing like kaffir lime leaves or lemon zest or coriander seeds or, you know, just the amazing, amazing flavors are what I would look for in sort of tastes, I think.

Do you have good table manners, do you think? sort of tastes I think um do you have good table manners do you think um I'm very insistent on napkins I can't bear a table that's laid without napkins that's my thing and I don't like people starting before other people have sat down and I don't like people leaving before other people have finished and we have a joke that's really worn thin in the family and it all started with that Michael McIntyre sketch where he talked about kids putting you know things in the zone instead of the dishwasher and so we all show you know when when somebody makes a move to put their dirty dishes like near the sink or or near the dishwasher but not in and he goes that's the zone, not the zone, do it in the dishwasher. So my kids are really furious that we ever listened to that because now my husband and

I just scream at them. That's the zone, the zone, you have to put it in the dishwasher. So I think I like people clearing up after themselves, surprisingly. When you finish Newsnight, are you hungry you if it's all gone well and there's loads of adrenaline going around do you think god i need a big drink or i'm gonna have a i do need a drink yeah so so what happens is i come back and the dog greets me with what i quickly discover is cupboard love and the tail is wagging wagging wagging and then and I go yes and I start telling him all about the day and then he just leads me to the fridge and stands at the fridge and demands you know sort of goat's cheese or manchego or whatever he sort of got his eye on and so basically the dog

needs a treat I have a little glass of vodka or a glass of rose and that's my sort of calming down. Is everybody else in bed by that time? Yeah, my funny enough, my son quite often comes, his bedroom sounds as he comes up and has a little chat with me, which is sweet. So he'll he stays up way too late because obviously he's a teenager. So he quite often sort of appear when it's not school as it is now you know school holidays um he comes up and has a little chat at the end of the day which I love because you know it's a human face and I mean it's my son and how do you relax do you watch in that evening when you're having a glass of rose do you watch crap telly or place in the sun or something just to relax? No, I don't. I

deal with correspondence, if we've had it from the programme, you know, either people saying nice things or people saying, you know, critical things or people asking us about stuff that we did do or didn't do. So I tend to sort of just go through and I that's all part of the kind of like you know just sort of finish off the day thank you for writing let me explain blah blah blah so I do a bit of that I talk to my colleagues actually we still sort of I tend to just you know we get back home and then we have a chat about what worked and what didn't but a funny chat not a kind of like meeting a kind of like oh my god wasn't that a catastrophe when x happened you know we sort of do a bit of that and because everyone because they're obviously in the same boat as you so they're all sort of trying to wind down at the same time and i've sort of got this weird thing i play makes me sound so sad i try and guess what

the first three words of the midnight news will be so I sort of I always literally it's like you've got to guess the exact three words the exact formulation and it tells you whether something's happened so it's either something that they've picked up from the program or else it's something that you don't know about in which case it's really exciting so you're like oh a new news or else it's something that's been running all day and so you sort of know it so that that is really sad but that is what i do i sort of go what will it be what will it be and i'll wait for the bongs and i'll try and guess the three words i feel like that could really um it'd be pretty easy at the moment really catch on corona covid yeah you've got to guess though whether it goes

the government has or the former home secretary hat or the blah you know so you've got sort of like if it's a name you've got to get the name and the formulation right and you've got to go oh i mean we know it's going to be about corona but that's why it's got to be very specific you've got to do like exactly the you're just playing this on your own with the dog or do you have friends to do it with just just me just i love this um emily thank you so much for doing this absolute pleasure i want to know what you're having for dinner tonight. I haven't got that far, actually. I'm going to do, I love cooking with vegetables.

So I'm probably going to do something like, I'm very into Anna Jones at the moment. Oh, love her. I love Anna Jones. I love everything about her. Sort of the miso marinated aubergines i tend to cook so i'll probably do something like steak for my boys because i'm home tonight and there's one steak in the fridge which they can share and then i will do a whole host of little sort of

anna jonesy's salads i've got all my fresh herbs so on the day that the fresher oh i know what i'll i know what i'll do i'm going to do do, this sounds really weird, but it works. I nicked it from a restaurant in Washington, D.C., which is one of my favorite places. And it is enoki mushrooms, like wild exotic mushrooms, which you pan fry in soy and two different types of vinegars. I just sort of make it up a bit and garlic. And then you have it on fresh herbs and salad and asparagus. And then this is the weird thing. This is what the restaurant does.

You put taleggio, very thin taleggio on top. And it's everything you think doesn't go because like who would put taleggio and Italian cheese on top of like japanese mushrooms in a soy sauce i can't explain why that works but it just does it's sensational that sounds good so i think now you've reminded me i think i might have to go and do that because i've just got my my new load of mushrooms i may copy you but i'm gonna have it with chestnuts because that's what i've got but i may i'm gonna copy you i've got chestnut mushrooms pecorino. I can make it kind of work, maybe.

Totally. It has to be slightly, pecorino doesn't melt in the same way. It has to be slightly sort of melty. Oh, yeah, okay. But it's just, it's got, the dressing's really light. I can't explain why that works. As I say, I just, I taste it at this Japanese place. It was sort of Japanese-y, one of those sort of Japanese-y sort of, you know,

fusion-y things where they do lovely things with tuna tartare and all that sort of stuff and yeah and sort of micro herbs and really lovely leaves and I'm a bit I'm a dressing snob so I think it all comes down to your vinaigrette and your dressing and just getting the right balance that that's what I'm going to do tonight what's the ultimate last question I promise ultimate Emily Maitlis vinaigrette now I need to know? Well, there isn't an ultimate one. What's one that everyone can do? Well, no, I'll give you a weird one, right? Have you ever done that Ottolenghi one?

Come on. Okay, here is a weird one. The Ottolenghi one where you grill peaches, you cut peaches in half and you griddle them so they're char-grilled, beautiful to look at. And then the dressing for that, you have a little bit of serrano ham, leaves, that, and basil leaves. And then the dressing for that is very, very sparingly orange flower water, a little bit of maple syrup, olive oil, and again, very sparingly balsamic.

And it just shoots flavours through the roof. It's amazing amazing it's really good we do have griddled peaches in our cookbook emily oh my goodness i'm going we do them with rosemary actually they're really nice with rosemary they're very nice with rosemary we need to send you the cookbook and oh i'd love that i will wear it daily we'll send it to you definitely I will wear it daily. We'll send it to you, definitely. Darling, I kind of am even more impressed than I thought I would ever be because she is completely the most commanding female. She's a real foodie as well.

I'm going to try that mushroom thing tonight. Gosh, what a foodie. I think Sam's, this is what Corona, COVID-19 looks like. We've got Emily Maitlis for an hour. My husband's got two kids in the other room. One's got a milk bottle and he's doing a session on the phone and not keeping it down.

So on that note, I better go. But what an absolute pleasure to have Emily Maitlis on. She was wonderful. Wow. Yeah, she's very impressive and brilliant and obviously a good chef too, obviously. She's like good at everything, isn't she? Yeah, 18 languages

probably mandarin no she definitely does mandarin mum oh my god yeah she's one of them she's amazing yep she's like a silent assassin isn't she you can imagine her after a good news night sitting with her vodka love it i knew i liked that woman and then she says that she likes my favourite cocktail what a woman Emily Maitlis' book Airhead is out now she's no airhead thank you so much for listening

to Table Manners Special Circumstances thank you to Emily Maitlis for giving us the time to speak when she obviously

is working very very hard at the moment and it's a pleasure bringing this to you during lockdown please forgive the noises such as my husband doing a pt session in the background or my son banging on the windows

or my daughter having eucalyptus um thank you for listening stay safe the music you've heard on table manners is by peter duffy and pete fraser table manners is produced by alice williams