Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S9 Ep 17: JoJo

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

She was that voice we all knew, sung the songs that were always on the radio, her first support tour was for Usher and all at the age of 13. This week we talk to Boston born JoJo and hear her tough, frustrating and honest story about her dealings with the music industry that ended up with her not being able to be heard for years.Fast forward to 2020, she's won a Grammy, her current record was top of the R&B charts in the US and she's currently in lockdown with her mum. JoJo waxes lyrical about @dishoom, her penchant for drinking lemon mescal margaritas, tells mum about being in a ‘situationship’ and is basically a doll who we wished we could have had round for a curry in Clapham.Listen to her story, her struggle and her survival and fist pump at the end. XxPlease note: this episode contains discussion of disordered eating Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here on a Zoom with my mum. Say hi. Hi darling. Been a good week this week. It's not been bad, not gonna lie. Alex on the one show. Yeah, Dr Alex getting filmed with everyone on the one show. That was lovely. Yeah, and then we've been nominated for a podcast award. The British Podcast Awards. We've never been nominated for one. And it's amazing. It's taken us three years, but we're finally in it. And it's for the Spotlight Award.

And it's among such other brilliant, brilliant. Spotlight. I know, maybe it's a sign. Maybe we'll win it. Spotlight. Yeah, maybe. But we're among such brilliant podcasts, such as Guilty Feminist, Happy Mum, Happy Baby.

My Dad Wrote a Porno. I feel like, you know, they're old vets now. They can pass on the batter, don't you think? Yes. Thank you so much for the nomination. There is also, by the way, a Listener's Choice Award that you can offer to vote for us on. Maybe we'll put it out on Instagram for you to have a little look at if you need an activity whilst in lockdown. Darling, has Sam eaten the apple crumble that I made for your brother?

We've got it in the freezer. I actually saw Dr Alex for the first time. We had our socially distanced chat on Blackie. Oh, how was he? He was all right, actually. I think he's been in a really tough bubble. Probably more exciting than seeing my dear brother was seeing Jack Fincham from Love

Island socially distancing chatting to his mate and getting a little Instagram photo session happening had to text the group WhatsApp Love Island WhatsApp and that was really quite a highlight for me hasn't he just had a baby yes the baby was not there but his veneers and his crisp white shirt was. Okay. What else has been happening this week? I have been cooking up a storm. I can't stop doing halloumi with honey and sesame seed. Nice. It's so good.

Okay, I'll order some. Did you give Uncle Alex, why didn't you give Dr. Alex his apple crumble? Dr. Alex didn't want me to bring anything to carry. Also, I didn't quite realise how hilly Southeast London is. It's fantastic. But thank God I didn't have realize how hilly southeast london is it's fantastic but thank god i didn't have a crumble in my bag that's all i'm saying okay i would have rolled down the hill that is a big hill so tonight we have an incredible voice a memorable voice a

voice that was stopped from being allowed to put out music for a very long time it's Jojo you may remember her as the very young singer who had this phenomenal voice and sung the song Get Out and then A Little Too Late I mean they're songs that everyone will know because they were such international hits and she had quite a dramatic difficult time with a label that she was on which meant that she couldn't put music out for a very long time and it was incredibly frustrating she's back she's been back for a while but she's made this um critically acclaimed record um number one in the r&b charts in the states won a grammy last year and she's doing all right and this is jojo and i'm sure she's going to tell us about this incredible story which is what a horrendous time she had in the industry. I don't know very much about her,

except I did watch something on YouTube, and she's got a phenomenal voice, so I'm looking forward to hearing all about her and her childhood. Jojo, coming up on Table Manners, special circumstances. Darling. Hi. hi you're all upside down babe should i be like that yeah hi hello oh hi so we've got jojo on the podcast, you're in LA and you are quarantined with your mum and your dog. Yes. Yes.

My mum moved out from Boston to LA because I'm her only child. And we wanted to be closer together. And she came out here and was looking for a job and then found one. So she was going to be staying with me temporarily. But that has since extended. And how's it going for you? To be honest, it's really nice like I'm very we're really in a great place um when I was a teenager and earlier in my 20s it was not so

sweet but we we're awesome we're good that's so good you didn't just see the Barney that mum and I just had before this started I didn't you were just shouting at me why well because I couldn't get wi-fi in my fucking place basically everyone's zooming at this time because it's like six o'clock in the UK well now it's 6 30 in the UK evening so everyone's zooming into their families and so I was like I can't get the connection in my room so I've just kicked my kids out of the living room where they were watching like in the night garden and I was shouting at my mum on the ear pods but my daughter didn't realize so she thought I was shouting at her and she's very upset anyway we're fine we're fine she's fine my husband's with her but anyway but your daughter would love to see Jo because that hair is princess

hair if ever I saw it she likes princess hair oh my god that hair oh yeah she'd think you are basically Rapunzel from Tangle yeah that would be it I'm a Boston Rapunzel is it your hair Jo girl no it is now but well as Cheryl said it's mine I bought it exactly I bought it it's mine that's right I ain't renting it so I mean I I feel like we've both got you've got your record out and it's doing really well. And I have a record coming out and promoing a record in quarantine has been interesting. I don't know. How's it been for you? Yeah. Interesting feels like the right word to describe it for sure. Unique.

But it's been really unique. I mean, I haven't put on proper shoes like to leave the house in in three months so it's been interesting to perform the material actually like that that that's been the the weirdest thing I would say to perform it from my living room and like not be able to have that audience interaction because I was meant to be on tour right now so that's been interesting but as far as like talking to people it's just been adjusting to the new normal. It's neither bad or good. It's just different. You know what I mean? you had this new record you were emancipated you were feeling empowered and probably are still but like and then this has to happen and then you're not allowed to go and perform it like you just gotta laugh yeah right yeah you just gotta laugh um yeah my my single the first single on the album

man came out like a week before la lockdown and i was like oh no way this is crazy but I just whoo just really try to keep it in perspective and and and like realize that this is a really terrible time for a lot of people I'm mad lucky I have everything I need I have everything I need and and thankfully I mean we were able to make an amazing impact people are loving the album. Number one R&B album on Billboard. You know, I'm really, I'm very thankful. And I try to keep that in the front of my mind

because I don't want to take this too personally. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like the universe is conspiring against me. Like, this is effed up. This is a crazy experience for everybody. Yeah. So growing up in Boston with your mom and your dad mom and dad were separated yeah they they got divorced when I was like four so then I would do the back and forth thing between Massachusetts and New

Hampshire oh wow that's a bit of a is that a bit of a schlep or it was a bit of a schlep um from Foxborough in Mass to Nashville in New Hampshire it was like about an hour and a half drive. So my dad would come pick me up like every other weekend for a while. And yeah, I mean, that was what our schedule was. And what was it like growing up? Was your mum a good cook? No. Did she? What were you eating oh no my mom hates cooking and it's funny because I am now I love to cook I love to bake and I'm the one that does that here I love to entertain and to serve people it brings me so much joy like seeing people enjoy what I've made similar to music you

know and my mom would do a lot of let's see pasta, pasta, but just, you know, like pasta and then like a store-bought marinara sauce, you know, and stir fry, but she never enjoyed cooking. She'd be like, ah, you know, she really didn't like it. A lot of frozen stuff. With my dad, like we had this, have you guys heard of Boston Market? No.

It's a chicken place. No, what is it? Not just in Boston. They even have them in LA but like you'll get like a rotisserie chicken and then there's like baked apples and mashed potatoes and macaroni sounds great it's really good yeah it's there's actually one by LAX airport why cook if there's a Boston market wait so so Lenny yeah do you enjoy cooking or was it something that you just did out of necessity? Now, that's a big question. I am a cook and I am a feeder. I don't know that it's always given me a lot of joy to feed.

Maybe mums don't feel that because they cook relentlessly. I know that I would always cook. So I'm on my own at the moment. And I cook for myself each night. And I cook for neighbors or a friend down the road who just lost his wife, a young man. So I'll give him some for Jessie. So this Friday, I'll probably cook a roast chicken and take it over to her house for them. It's so beautiful. Because she's got limited facilities at the minute. So I can cook and I'm a good cook. But it doesn't always bring me the joy that it sounds it brings you. Absolutely not. So my mom has been a caretakertaker though for a lot of her life taking care of families um kids like watching kids and stuff so I think that yeah she she had to do

things that when she got home to me she was like yeah I don't want to like whip something up like you know I I yeah I mean today mom you'll laugh so I I eat with my kids I like to try and eat with them as much as possible. So I've already eaten my dinner. So everyone thinks I'm slightly kind of odd and we'll have a five o'clock dinner. It suits me nicely. What did you have tonight?

So my husband finally got the gas barbecue going, but he was unimpressed. He's like, give me charcoal any day, but he did it reluctantly. Mum, we made it very simple. I did sausages. I did some miso aubergine. So easy.

With a bit of honey and sesame seeds. And then we did some halloumi with honey. Halloumi and honey and sesame is the best. It's so easy though. So bish, bish, bish. And then I do these really nice haricot beans, like white beans. Do them with some onion, white wine, parsley. I would have done cream if I had it.

So anyway, I was doing just bits and bobs. I'm loving it. No, we eat well every every night oh we like we eat a lot too like more is more in our family like it's just like have more and more will come um yeah so I've had my dinner have you had your breakfast you're in LA so you must have just had brekkie no you know I actually kind of do a version of intermittent fasting where I don't eat until really just when I I start eating when I'm genuinely hungry so how many hours do you usually go you like the 16 hour one or a 14 hour or 12 I see I eat late into the night kind of you know like last night I had I ate some like right just random stuff like some popcorn and some cherries and some chocolate bits and stuff so I

ate maybe till like 11 um it's when I stopped snacking and then I will probably eat for the first time at like um one o'clock today okay that's fine yes but but I'm having coffee so it's not a true fast yeah no I when I do that coffee. No, you're allowed to do the coffee. But I have it with almond milk. Oh, who cares? I won't tell anyone. But because you were so restricted, you know, I've heard about you and your story and how the record label put pressure on you to not be fit, but to be thin. And you're on 500 calories a day so did you develop an eating disorder would you say I would say that my my eating was very my I developed disordered eating like after that experience well probably from from that yeah because I was on these injections

that made your body not hungry and made you think that your body was pregnant, I guess. And then it like takes the nourishment that it would give to the baby. But like you excrete it. I'm not exactly sure what it was called, but it was. How old were you, Jo? I was 18. Bloody hell. And then the diet was like, you know, you'd have like some,

maybe a little bit of an avocado and blackberries or strawberries, and then like some chicken breast. And because I was legally an adult, I felt like, well, this is just part of what it is to be in the industry, right? I mean, I saw plenty of examples of women who were in pop music who were really just not living a life of enjoyment and satisfaction when it came to food. So I was like, I guess this is just kind of the relationship that a lot of people have. But after that, and after my record didn't come out, even when I got on that diet, and I got skinny and all this stuff, then I was like, ah, fuck it. You know, whatever, yo, like, there's no benefit to living this way. So then I would say that I started engaging in like

more binge eating where I would just gorge myself on whatever it is that I wanted and it would go from sweet salty to savory whatever and I would just like have an insatiable appetite because I was obviously it spoke to a unhappiness and just like a feeling out of sorts and food can be a great way to feel better in the moment. So yeah, I don't know if I would say it was an eating disorder, but you could definitely, I definitely identify with, you know, I've had disordered eating. I watched that Honda upfront kind of mini doc.

It was really good. Yo, they did a good job. They've condensed a whole life so far into 25 minutes I was like this was effective I thought it was really well put and I feel like you know um many people that are listening to this podcast may not know the backstory and I don't want to dwell too much on it but I do feel like it has shaped you as the artist that you are today if I'm putting words in your mouth, I don't know. I mean, it's a bloody story. No, you're right. But I wondered whether you would want to kind

of expand on that and kind of take us from the beginning. You started, you were a child star. You were performing when you were very little. Yes. Yeah. I've been singing as long as I can remember. I was raised South of Boston. My mom was a soloist at our Catholic church and she was cleaning houses and I was a very precocious little girl and I always knew that I wanted to I've seen the videos I always wanted to sing I was very very you're a pro I was addicted to the feeling there's that video though that you've just come off stage and you're about six and you're like they go I think your mom's saying did you enjoy that and you go you drink your little drink and you're like yeah it was great and then this guy go little boy says behind he's like

you were really good you go thanks you're like a pro at six you're kind of like yeah yeah cool thanks so much thank you so much just just another day this is what I do I was just so long story short so by the time that I signed my first record deal at 12 years old, I was like, Oh, it's about time I've been doing this my whole life. You know, but I was actually Yeah, I've been offered like production deals and stuff even younger than that. My first offer was from Britney Spears's production company when I was about nine years old, because I met her and her lawyer, and then they drafted up something. But my mom was like, you know what, you're too young, like, you're not you're like 10

years old. So by the time that I was 12, though, I was being bullied a lot in school. And I moved to I convinced my mom was a single mom. And we were so so close. And she, we had a cousin out in California. And I was was like please mom can we please move to california like kids don't understand me here and i'm so you don't know the friends blah blah please let me go to california so somehow she we went and yeah lived in this like small town in in near los angeles but not there and i'd go to auditions a lot signed a record deal at 12 years old this label a small independent company that actually started Aaliyah with her career and they founded the company

because she was so young when she first started she was about 13 or 14 when she signed and was making her first album with with R. Kelly but there was it was hard to find a record label home for her so they started their own label so she she had already passed away by the time that I signed to them. But they ended up moving us back to New Jersey so I could work on my first album there and be closer to their main office and all that stuff. But that's not just the reason, is it? Well, apparently the child labor laws were more lax in New Jersey and New York.

In California, there's a lot of things meant to protect children from like, and getting into long, you know, difficult service agreements and things like that. And it was just a little more sus in on the East coast, I think still. Anyway, I, you know, I'll never really know so uh yeah recorded my first album when I was 12 and put out my first single when I was 13 and I became number one yeah became the youngest solo artist to have a number one single on billboard um but what I found really

interesting is that like you your face wasn't on these the kind of the promo sleeves so everyone was listening and you listen to that song and you're like this is a young woman uh young r&b woman like you know probably black and then as you say people were really shocked when they discovered your age and race right prepubescent white girl yeah and i was thinking about this very grown experience of you, breaking up with someone and kicking them out of your life. And I didn't have any experience with that. I'm sure people were like, Oh, my gosh, what is this girl been through? Like, this poor baby. But it's not as if I wrote the song, it was a perfectly, you know, Scandinavian crafted pop song that actually felt much too pop for my own sensibility and my own experience because I always considered myself a soul singer. So when the song came that ended up changing my life and I am grateful to that song. It's not like I have any weird feelings toward it.

It has afforded me incredible opportunities, but I didn't get it at first. I cut the song reluctantly and I'm really glad I did. And apparently I cut it with some type of conviction passion behind it because it resonated but I mean and then and then you go on to get another number one with little too late that was that was for my my second album so yeah first album came out I my first tour ever was supporting Usher on his European Confessions tour unbelievable just so crazy did he teach you to dance?

I still don't know how to dance. But that's the whole point. Didn't he teach Justin Bieber how to dance? Well, that's favoritism, isn't it? And that's sexism in the industry. I thought Usher taught everyone how to dance. No, not me. Was he nice?

Yeah, but I was also like a little girl. So he was just, he was distant and like, you know, I very much was a little girl. But I got to see him. I watched his show every single night. And as you know, even just being able to watch somebody at the top of their game, I find that to be very inspiring and great education. So I learned a lot from that.

And then started working on my second album. I was 15 when that came out. And then Too Little Too Late, I had a huge international song with that. And I did a couple movies, did a movie with Robin Williams and I did a movie filmed in Australia called Aquamarine. And then that's when things started to not be good with my record label. They were upset that they weren't profiting off of that.

And then they were exercising the right that they have in my contract, which is that they own my voice. And so they wouldn't approve my singing voice on anything. So then that started to become an issue where they would ask for exorbitant fees to have me feature on something. And then people would be like, we're not paying that. That's insane. So it just started to reflect poorly on me. And anyway, that's when things started to just kind of really go in a not good place. And they started to not be in a good place with their own business dealings and relationships.

And I was finding myself being a casualty of that. And I knew that I wanted to probably wait till I was 18 to put out the next record. But I was in the studio from probably 17 to 18. Jo, where were you living while all this was happening? Were you based in New Jersey or in LA? No, actually, by the time I was 15, my mom had bought her first home in Massachusetts. We went back to where we are from. And so I was in Massachusetts at that time. And I lived there until I was 19. Well, I moved out. I got my own place in the city. I am doing my own thing. But I was in Massachusetts from 15 to 19. And I was being tutored and like homeschooled. So that's how I got my diploma. Do you feel you've missed out on education because of the music? I got a really good education actually from my homeschool teacher. But you didn't go to prom or anything?

I did. I did go with my best friend to prom but it was different because I was quite famous so it was kind of awkward you know and like people just kind of so the boys didn't toss you out no and people just kind of ogle at you and like you know I don't feel bad for myself at all I was just like okay this is weird like this is not comfortable this is not what prom is and I probably made other people feel uncomfortable like it was just a weird thing you know but the only thing I because I ended up being in a long-term dispute with my record label and I ended up at eight I don't know I think I might have filed the first lawsuit around 18 or 19 and then a second one at like 21 22 because they just would not let me go was this to get release they want you wanted to go it was to get released? You wanted to go?

It was to get released because they were no longer a functioning record label. They had burned a lot of bridges and I was continuously a casualty of that. And you weren't able to sing or put music out. So you were just stuck. Because I didn't own my voice. So I couldn't profit off of my voice.

So I started to put out mixtapes and just like do things just to literally stay afloat, stay alive, stay somewhat relevant. But I felt like they were trying to like smoke me out. Like they just like, they were like, well, you know, we're just whatever. It was really incredibly frustrating. But I try not to live with regret. But the only thing is that I moved to LA when I was 19, because I wanted to make things work with with the label. I wanted to put out an album. I wanted to do that. And I wish that I had gone to college during that time. It would have just been a different thing. I did commit to Northeastern University in Boston and I was going to go for

sociology and I just never matriculated. I never went ahead and did that. So I think that there's like some unexplored potential that I had as a more, as a student. If you hadn't done music, what would you have studied? I was going to study sociology and cultural anthropology. I'm really interested in culture and how it affects us. And, and I thought that I could apply that also to music, that I could apply that to, you know, my touring and to just being a human being. Did you have music tuition? So can you read music? Can you write music? I cannot like easily read music. I've done like a couple workshops where like I've had to I can I don't deserve a gold star or a pat on the back, but I can kind of see what's going on.

But no, I didn't. I'm not deeply educated. And you don't play an instrument aren't you learning I'm actually learning now during quarantine yeah I'm I'm learning my songs on piano and that that's giving me a sense of growth and like that studiousness that I'm tapping back into I really like but so you you went and then re-recorded your first two albums you re-recorded them because in 2018 18 because my former record label never made a deal with the streaming services so that's why you can't find Aaliyah's music on Spotify or Apple Music as well that music is just not there I've never thought about that you can find it on YouTube I think it's an absolute tragedy to

her legacy and it's absolutely really why can't you I don't understand because every label has to make an agreement and make a um make a deal with the streaming services to put their music up on there so why don't they agree it now her old that's a that's a great question I don't have an answer for you it's nonsensical and it feels like anti-commerce it's like why would you not want to profit off of this stuff that you own I don't know it doesn't make sense to me but I try I have really tried to like just not try to make sense of it because it's so frustrating so so my stuff wasn't available but I'm still here Aaliyah is not here to protect and continue her music career

and protect her history, you know? So I felt like I was being erased, and I felt like it was... I was also tired of seeing people on the internet being like, why did you take your first two albums down from Spotify? I'm like, I don't own those masters. I didn't do that. I would never have done that.

That is so weird. Like, as if I'm embarrassed by my first two albums, I'm not. They sold millions of records, and they changed my life. So I like to be more solution oriented. And I was like, what can I do instead of being fucking pissed? You know what I mean? And just just angry and I realized that I could basically cover my own material and create new masters that satisfy the same nostalgic experience that people probably want to have when they're listening to those first two albums of mine and I had my musical directors and producer friends recreate these tracks as similarly to the originals as possible. And I went in and re-recorded every single song and did it as

close to the original as possible while still allowing for the fact that I'm a woman now as opposed to a little girl and my voice has changed but same keys same backgrounds all that I mean your voice is phenomenal it's kind of thank you it's kind of like otherworldly the shit that you do with your voice it's just um it's ridiculous to be honest to be frank it's ridiculous and wow but but and I know I know you've talked about the fact that you I'm not sure mad love the record uh you weren't too it was a bit of a funny time I really appreciate a cohesive body of work I really like something that feels like it's thoughtful and it makes sense and I just didn't get to have that satisfaction with mad love I didn't have any fight left in me to be like that you know I'm putting my foot in the sand for this and I'm going to

fall on this sword. I had no fight left in me. I just wanted to put something out because it had been 10 years. I put my second album out when I was 15. Mad Love didn't come out until I was 25. I was like, this makes no sense. I have to put something out. I'm desperate to put something out.

And what did you say, Ma? Yeah, it is a good album. But I'm saying it could have even been better. It could have even been better. Of course, it's a very good album. It did very well. I'm proud of it. But yeah, there were really good songs in there, but I just, there was a flow that I was missing. No, I totally, I understand that. And I think, yeah, I mean, it's, it felt more like song, song, song, song, song, going to different places, different producers, as you know, you know,

I'm sure you've had this experience of like 50 first dates. You're like, we have this session with this person in this session with this co-writer and producer. And I'm like, where's the flow. I know I've made my new record with one producer and it feels so much better. And I kept it, it just makes, it makes more sense to me. And it kind of yes yeah yeah coherent cohesive it does all that so I mean look fast forward you do this record it's really great last year you won a grammy for best R&B song yeah with PJ Morton sexy you're full of sex now that's it oh just got the sex it's just sex isn't it now are you seeing anybody that's what I was just going to ask.

Talking of sex, have you got a boyfriend? No, I don't have a boyfriend. Why? You're gorgeous. Thank you. And I cook, Lenny. What the hell? And she cooks.

She bakes, goddammit. She bakes and cooks. You're gorgeous. Thank you. No, I have a bit of a, you know, a situationship. But my mom thinks that's funny. Ma, can you come say hi? What does your mom think about that? Come say hi.

You're beautiful. Come on. Come on. My mom and I are just, how cute is she? Oh, my God. She should say, oh, my God. She's like, look at the hair as well. You're beautiful.

Wow, she's gorgeous. I'm so young. Are you her sister? Yeah. They can't hear you. They can't hear you. You're beautiful. Look at your hair. I'm disgusting. you're beautiful she's young are you her sister yeah they can't hear you're beautiful look at your hair you're beautiful no you're not what are you talking about anyways yeah they're there's this is so fun so they're asking me if i have a boyfriend and now i'm just going to tell them that i don't but it's you know it's a situation and i am just really focused on myself still. Now you can't get rid of me. I guess like, yeah, I mean, look, we should probably talk a bit about food as well, because that is actually the podcast.

So when you were young, what was besides going to what's it called? Boston Market. Yeah. Which I would definitely go to every day of the week if I had it near. Maybe we should open one up here, darling. It's so good. A nice rotisserie chicken is the best. So besides Boston Market, what is your favorite food to eat when you were little?

What did you eat a lot of? When I was little, I loved chicken fingers and french fries okay I mean who doesn't I know right who doesn't yeah chicken fingers and french fries and cereal lots of cereal just some real real simple which cereal I'd like cinnamon toast crunch I like Cheerios oh it's the best it's the bloody best cinnamon toast crunch is the best thing in the world cinnamon grahams is that what we have here yeah and we also my mom also tried to do like a healthier cereal with these things called um nut grape nuts yeah grape nuts and then yeah and you were like don't give me that shit i actually really liked it because then we put like okay you know like a splendor or equal vibe on top of it and then cut up some like bananas and strawberries.

I love that still, actually. So what do you cook now? What's your favorite dish to cook now? So now I am experimenting with a plant-based lifestyle and I've been in and out of that for a long time. Oh, God, you're so LA, Jojo. You changed. I am.

I know. I have changed. I'm a brand new bitch, Jessie. I don't know what to tell you. No more rotisserie chicken, Jess. It's all bloody plant-based mince now. It's kale now. Come on.

Tell us what you're eating then. But listen, I'm not a perfect plant-based person. So like I will still have a nice, you know, like a Nashville hot chicken every once in a while. I'll do some stuff like that. But it's actually not a video. It's just a podcast. But we're just experiencing each other. It's not like you're going to be on a while. I'll do some stuff like that. But it's actually not a video, it's just a podcast, but we're just experiencing each other. Yeah, so it's not like it's gonna be on.

Just for the listeners, Jo's mom is putting fingers behind Jo's head. She's really behaving very maturely and we're loving every moment of it. And it's brilliant. So what type of things have I been making? I've been experimenting with different sauces. So I made like a jerk sauce from scratch and I made some,

um, beyond meatballs. So beyond meat is like, you know what I'm saying? That plant-based meat. And, uh, so the,

the jerk sauce was dope. Uh, I made a vegan Alfredo sauce with peas and broccoli, and then did like a seaweed rotini pasta. And I just did a, a um what was that thing a vodka sauce uh yeah that vodka sauce was off the chain all this from from scratch like soaking the cashews and then blending them up and um so I've been I've been enjoying that so yeah lots of just different sauces um really liking going to the grocery store and seeing what vegetables they have and

just experimenting with them, baking. How long has this plant-based romance been going? Well, I started a couple tours ago because my doctor, my ear, nose and throat doctor was like, you might want to experiment with not eating dairy. I'm like, Oh, and like anti-inflammatory diet, you know, like chill, chill with the spicy food. I'm like, wait, chicken, chicken masala is my favorite dish. I want it medium spice. I want a nice saag paneer. Like I want all that. I love Indian food so much. I'm like, I don't know if this is going to work, but I gave it a whirl a couple of tours ago and I was a fully vegan. And I was I was like okay I actually do find my recovery and vocally to be better when I avoid dairy so I've been dabbling in it for like probably

four years um again I'm not perfect I will have a drunken chicken wing do you have to do you have problems with your voice do you have to try and preserve it I do yeah Jesse's the same yeah I have had I've had some issues and and that's why I've why I've been seeing the same ENT for a long time and have tried to experiment with different things. My allergies have been really bad. I'm on sublingual immunotherapy. I'm allergic to nature. So when I'd be on tour, I'd have different environmental allergies.

And it was tough it was really really tough so yeah I've been trying to take care of my boys as much as possible and you're so you're 27 now I'm 29 now that's so old okay I know I'm really oh you're past it that's it that's it it really resonated with me how you speak about being a woman in the industry I mean you've had an incredibly bizarre and somewhat horrendous journey to this point it's been fucking crazy I mean it's probably the worst industry story I've heard and you know you hear you hear a few right but like I mean you seem like you're in such a good place and I love how kind of philosophical you are and you're you're not bitter you kind of I don't know you feel like you're you're philosophical about it and it seems like you're doing pretty damn well

now like you know you've made a brilliant record you're winning grammys you're getting to do what you want to do do you feel life's all right apart from being on lockdown during an album promo campaign I really do I really do feel like life's all right. And I feel so lucky. And that's interesting that you said that I seem kind of philosophical about it. You're right, actually. I'm very interested in philosophy. I'm like, because I didn't get to go to college, I've kind of like, I came up with my own life curriculum and things that interest me, like, you know, whether it's based in like some spirituality and some self-help like, you know, whether it's based in like some spirituality and some self-help and, you know, ancient texts and really rooted in gratitude though, because

where I come from and what I've experienced and where I am today and the fact that I, you know, I have everything that I need and I still want to continue to grow. I think it's that I've shifted my mindset so much over the years I am in a good place when the lockdown ends which is the first meal you're going to eat when you go out oh I'm so excited um I actually because I I miss like you know multi-course meal I I love restaurants I I ordered one of my favorite restaurants has been doing this thing where you can go pick up from them and they'll like they'll plate it and they'll court it's this place called babel um in downtown la somebody else no benny blanco told me about it the other day on the phone he was like you've been to bar but babel he

calls it babel yeah i don't know sure but babel and then bestia bestia is right across from the warner building is amazing it's one of my favorites so honestly um lenny i would probably want to go to bestia and i'm not going to eat plant-based when i'm there because they have this like this bone marrow thing i'm sorry like you're going in my vegan followers are going to friggin be so upset with me but you know what i'm just telling the truth they have this crazy bone marrow dish where they put it on this like this little tiny orange chetti pasta i don't know exactly what it's called but it is off the fucking chain i'm salivating just thinking about it and uh but i'm i'm still like yesterday i

i ordered sugarfish i just decided to be really bougie yeah so yeah so i had i i've still eaten some some nice things, even under quarantine, because as much as I like cooking for myself, I also really love other people cooking. Absolutely. What would be, if you were going to be sent on a desert island, I think we all feel like we're on a desert island at the moment. Yeah.

What would be your last supper? Starter, main, dessert and drink of choice. I i got you because i've thought about this a lot i'm like if i was on death row you know that's how i thought but i like actually this desert island sounds better i call it death row she calls it because i can't i don't believe in the death penalty i feel you i feel you okay i would have a medium spice chicken tikka masala with basmati rice, saag paneer, mango chutney, a diet Coke. And for an appetizer, I would have samosas. I love Indian food. Like, that's what I like. You're going full.

But babe, Indian food in LA is shit. I know. Like, friggin. It's not great. The Zoom in London? Yeah. It frigging. It's not great. The Zoom in London? Yeah. It's good. It's really good.

Is that among your favorites or is there a better place that I should go to next time? I mean, that one's become like, it's brilliant. And I think as a like. It's sophisticated. It's not like kind of earthy Indian. It's wonderful. It's so ambitious. And like the way they're doing it.

We need to bring you to Tooting. You need to come to Tooting with us and come and like have a proper, you know, Lahore Karahi. Dishoom is amazing. And what's your place around the corner, Jessie? Oh my God, bless them. Apparently it's brilliant. So I've moved into this new area and there's this place that I was like, oh, bless them. It says two stars. Yeah. And I was like, why would you give yourselves only two stars? everyone in the area has been like have you tried two sisters and I'm like oh no but I saw that two stars they're like that's two sisters and it's amazing I said why would they give themselves only two stars and they call themselves two sisters but it's fantastic apparently anyway um so go on you've got your samosa to start. What's your dessert? Oh, I love.

Not Indian. I mean, I would probably go full Indian. I would do galub jamun. You know, it's like the dough balls and like the maple syrup. I love it. But let's see if I was going to go in a different route. Maybe I would go with like a wild blueberry pie with, you know, like a vanilla vanilla bean ice cream um oh I do love ice cream so maybe I would do like a salted caramel or like a no butter um what's it called butter pecan I

know that sounds like like an old lady um palette but I really do like that I love that I love butter pecan and so what is it a diet coke then you're going to be drinking yeah yeah you're going down that's the diet coke well it's just that's it's complements those flavors so do you still drink yeah you still drink right I do I have my a little bar set up right here I am a mixologist now I'm really enjoying it I've been making these lemon mezcal margaritas um so it's just like sound dangerous it's a grand marnier mezcal a lot of lemons and a salt and pepper rim salt and pepper ice off the chain it's so good jojos come on have you got good table manners no i actually don't i don't know how to act i was raised by wolves i really don't know how to act. I was raised by wolves. I really don't know how to act.

Like I will have my frigging elbows there. Like, you know, actually this has been something that I've been self-conscious about. I was dating this guy who comes from like a very well-to-do family and like had like a proper education. And he was sent away to boarding schools. And like knows how to. And I was like, I don't know. I don't even know what this, where to put a fork or I was like I don't know I don't even know what this where to put a fork or like what I don't know how to cut properly I don't know how to do any of that

stuff I'm just winging it I just have to get by with my charm well you would you would definitely but what do you what table manners do you hate in other people what annoys you what annoys me and other people well like when you're out to to eat I am so turned off by people who are rude to waiters I mean that that's that's not a table manner though it is that will that so many people have said that one I think that's awful it is horrible and I want to know do you hate karaoke because I absolutely do oh you do so you don't have a karaoke song what would it be if I put a knife to your throat and said you've got to sing in karaoke oh wow that is amazing I will probably do like creep by TLC. Oh, good. Yes, very good one. How does that go, darling? The 22nd of loneliness. And we've been through so many things.

Like, T-Bar's had this really... You sound like her! Yeah, she has this ill tone that's very low. I love my man with all honesty. So that's the verse, Lenny. And then the hook is like, So I creep, yeah, just keep it on the download think nobody is supposed to know so i probably do something like that or i would do no scrubs by tlc because then

i would also do oh i love scrubs that's my favorite guy you think he's fly and then i would do the is there a rap in there did did left Eye have a wrap in there? You can put one in because it's karaoke. Jojo, you're just, I love you. I love you too, Jessie. But I really, I wish you'd come to our house.

Normally we do it with someone coming to my house and we eat and we cook for you. Can I please come later? Yeah, we'll take a rain check, Jessie. Yes, we will. But Jo, it's been such a pleasure i think like you are really inspiring and i am so happy you're back making brilliant music and everyone

can hear that damn voice because jesus christ we missed it for a while and um and yeah it's gorgeous and you're gorgeous and you should turn the situation into a relation okay ricky thank you go lenny go lenny i love it um i just um i mean what's the plan with um record being out obviously doing live things at your house have you got any tours booked in 2021 or yeah we moved the tour I was supposed to be on tour right now and then we moved it to the end of the year still remains to be seen I mean it's probably going to be pushed to 2021 and um are you coming to Europe yes oh wow are you coming, absolutely. Yeah, I'll do at least one show there.

Let's see. Yeah, I'll definitely see. Mum, her fans are like devoted. I'm sure they are. I'm going to be from now on. I'm going to get the blonde hair and wear a T-shirt. I love it. London is actually like one of my favorite places to play.

I'm not just saying that because I'm speaking to you guys, but London is where I think my streams are even the highest there it's just people people are really really um incredibly supportive over there well we can't wait to see you when it happens thank you so much I'm chatting to you and honestly you're a joy you're sunshine and um yeah and yeah thanks so much I will ask yourself she's my love to your mum. She's fantastic too. Oh, thank you. And Jessie, I can't wait to hear your new record. Oh, you're so cute. I like you a lot. And honestly, yeah. It's a fun record. And I think, yeah, you know, it's kind of like the PG-13 to your sexy, sexy, sexy. of like the pg-13 to your sexy sexy sexy i've kind of done a sexy i've done a flirtatious record but i feel like yours is the full-blown like let's actually have sex to this so mine is just mine

is the cocktail and nibbles just before they go and you really commit to it let it all Jessica please enough enough Please, enough. Enough. Mum? Yeah? How lovely is she? She's so sweet. She's really good fun, isn't she? I really liked her.

She was so not bitter I know I want to go and put dynamite under the record label I know I really enjoyed that I think she's just real full of sass full of talent well I didn't really know her before today when I read a little about her you would have known the songs right I knew the songs but I didn't know her and I certainly didn't know she was 13 when she recorded the songs but what a gorgeous girl she was just like a ray of sunshine really lovely and positive that's what you need when you're in lockdown you need positivity so I don't think she'd be fazed by anything yeah I mean it's pretty bad luck that she she manages to get out of this like 10 year deal battle but she wasn't cross or anything here she is well she won a grammy last

year well that's all right then and she she's made the record that she wants to make it's got amazing reviews she's got number one in the r&b chart she didn't she didn't all right our jojo yeah i might get extensions darling oh my god imagine if i can't get it cut i might just put the extensions in can we just talk about the comment on instagram that somebody said uh yesterday when i put up a picture of my little brother who accidentally was on the one show which was very funny the best comment that we've ever had about my mother or definitely up there was this one hello little little colton i'm looking at you a family of bloody celebs clap clap clap lenny was the original chris jenner oh bloody hell no i'm not

because i haven't created kardashian children thank goodness okay well you went imagine if we got chris jenner on and lenny and chris went head to head wow who doubt mother who celebrity death who doubt mommy who um thank you to everyone that listened thank you to everyone who is writing into us, who is just making us laugh so much. And cooking from our cookbook. Yeah, you are doing an amazing job. Oh my God, my friend Cam sent me, maybe I can get it over the microphone.

Hold on. This is her dad. You can't see it, but she sent me this and said, I thought you'd appreciate this. My dad made the stafado last night and this is what she sent me this is him having the stafado he's also dancing he's doing the Zorba the Greek or whatever as he holds the stafado and serves up. Really appreciated that. Quite right. He's got the whole

picture. Thank you to the darling Jojo for telling you a story, for giving us some sunshine and positivity and just being a lot of fun. We really really enjoyed that and thank you to everyone for listening. We'll see you next week. Table Manners Special Circumstances

are signing out for now The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams