Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S9 Ep 22: David Lammy

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

This week we welcome Tottenham-bred Labour MP David Lammy to Table Manners. It was a pleasure to zoom him in from across London and talk all about his 20 years of serving as a member of parliament for Tottenham, the Lammy review on BAME representation in the criminal justice system and the fact that Boris has not implemented enough of his 35 recommendations. He tells us all about his Guyanese parents; his mum's famous pepper pot & patties, coach trips to Skegness & his new book ’Tribes’. He’s currently on a strict Keto diet, but tells us all about his cheesecake obsession & his number 1 tipple being a rosé on ice! To top it all off, he wins us over with a beautiful rendition of Somewhere from West Side Story. David Lammy everyone! Enjoy!!x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm schvitzing. How are you mum? My feet are like watermelons Jessie. They're so swell and I'm so hot and this room is particularly hot and I've been working so hard I've not even been out in the sunshine today. Where have you been Jess? I've been to Whitstable and I didn't have fish and chips. Why not? Because the queues were so... actually you know know what it was in the papers that bournemouth and pool it was like a state of emergency or something wasn't it and it just wasn't like that in whitstable it was amazing

yeah have you seen the beach in whitstable compared to bournemouth darling well that's yeah but anyway i like the mud flat i'm glad that I was sensible. I was doing sensible social distancing sunbathing. How are your whelks? Did you eat well? No, we didn't get any fish. It didn't seem like much was open, to be honest. So we ended up with Thai, which I'm not going to lie, I feel a bit iffy, but it was, yeah, it was kind of nice.

The kids ate it. It's not what you expect to have, a bit of prawn fried rice on the beach, but hey. But really excitingly my friends claudia her parents have set up a vineyard and they're in kent and they're i think their fields used to be like the ribena fields you know how kent fields are excellent for growing garden of england darling the garden of england exactly well they are trying out making white wine so they've got a Pinot Gris and their sparkling wine will be ready next year and a big shout out to them it's called Heppington Pinot Gris and it's chilling in the fridge and I can't wait to have

it. Darling I just would like to put the oven on. Oh what are you making for David Lamy? Well I'm not I'm going to have steak and a baked potato tonight. Oh, that sounds well nice. It's a bit hot for that, isn't it? No, because the steak's always nice with a big salad. I just want my baked potato in. Is that all right? Can I just go and turn it on? Whilst mum goes and turns the oven on, I shall introduce this week's guest. We have the right honourable MP of Tottenham, Labour MP, David Lammy, on today. I'm really excited to be speaking to him. It feels a bit silly to be talking about food really when there's so much else going on.

Actually what's happened in the news today which you know we're pretty lucky to have David because he put this in but there's been a lot of kind of news breaking on this. I'm sure lots of our listeners know but if they didn't David Lammy was asked to do an independent review by david cameron back when david cameron was in power he did the lammy review it was a review of um black asian and minority ethnic representation in the criminal justice system and he examined that and he he made 35 recommendations to help improve on fundamental principles. And old Boris said in Prime Minister's questions this week that he'd implemented 16 of them, which David Lammy has gone back on and said you've implemented six, potentially with a few half done.

Back! Yeah, now I can see you're back. Sorry. We've wanted to have David on the podcast for ages and we're really happy to have him in lockdown. Well, he's been our target for a long time because I think he's got so much to say and I'm really pleased he's coming on at this time. David Lammy coming up on Table Money. David Lammy, thank you for joining us.

I'm seeing you everywhere at the moment and I'm loving it. And I'm loving, I'm inspired by everything you're saying. And thank you for speaking such sense on everything. So it's a real treat to have you doing this with us. And I feel a bit silly talking about food with you, really. But, you know, we can talk about other stuff too. Well well you probably could tell from my girth that I quite like food so I wouldn't feel silly about it but that's very nice of you to say that and to be so kind thank you so are you a Londoner absolutely Spurs fan mum I'm a Sp fan, born and raised in Tottenham,

but I actually live in Finsbury Park and I live on a road that is next to the road where my parents had a bedsit with a few others and I was conceived. And my parents are no longer here, so I feel really connected I take my children walk past that house every every day and I so Finsbury Park is now where I consider home and I really like the Finsbury Park area and I live in the Stroud Green sort of up to Crouch End

area but Tottenham obviously is where I grew up, where I still represent. And I guess I'm one of those people, I sometimes feel a bit like most people leave their town or village or neighbourhood, escape and never go back and, you know, make it big and it drag them back. And I sort of feel a bit like I'm maybe I'm slightly sort of stunted or immature because I'm sort of you know I haven't moved very far I mean I'm sort of one of those people that literally the streets I walk are the streets I've walked for 48 years so I'm a bit sort of you know it's how it is I think that's very romantic I like that yeah I've just returned back to South London not Clapham because I don't love Clapham but I've come to South East London.

I don't know, I get it, but I'm not right by mum, but near enough that mum can ferry matzo ball and chicken soup to me. So I wanted to know, how are you? What have you had for your dinner? Are you having it later? Are you not like me who eats with my children at five o'clock in the evening? I just had my dinner before I came on. in the evening? I just had my dinner before I came on. It was incredibly healthy dinner that was just thrown together by my wife as if she wasn't sort of thinking. And I thought, wow, that's pretty healthy. It was spinach leaves with roasted beetroot. And she had a load of anchovies that she fried and she threw in and and actually on this sort of hot day it just sort of went down well and I deliberately didn't finish it because I thought I'll do this for an hour and then I'll have a bit more later I'm on a keto diet at the moment how's that going well it was going incredibly well and i like the diet it's

been going a little bit less well but it's still going quite well i'll tell you how it's going a bit low and you'll understand i love this diet because it's meat-based i love cheese i love vegetables and basically i've got to a stage where i can tell that the carbs aren't good for me. That, you know, all that bread, horrendous, all that pasta, bad news, pizzas, those sorts of things really aren't good for me. And it always makes me feel bloated anyway. So it's basically a no carbs diet, although you can do it as a low carbs. And that's good.

The bit that's tough is it's also no sugar no wine yeah and that means no wine so i just had a gin and tonic and it was a slimline tonic and that's fine that's really low uh and that might be why i'm slightly bouncy on air but but um we are doing oh don't worry i've ordered one for my husband to bring it up don't worry we can all be there wow so okay so how long have you been doing the keto diet i've been doing it since january and i've lost two and a half stone wow wow yeah i also do by the way which again works for me i never thought i'd be able to do this i go without breakfast so intermittent fasting then intermittent fasting i don't really eat until after 12. And obviously if your last meal's at 9 o'clock,

then your body is burning up that fat through the night and into the morning. And that's really work to keep the weight off. So even when I break a bit from the diet, because of course that piece of chocolate cake, why not have it? Particularly at the weekends, the occasional, suddenly let's suddenly, you know, let's have fish and chips. And I want some of those chips. So, of course, you do. I'm not a complete sort of, you know, maniac about it.

But actually, the intermittent fasting really, really helps. And my body now has very much got used to not having breakfast, functioning fine. In fact, again, you know, particularly in politics, you know, I'm up quite late into the evening. In fact, you know, you could be having meetings in politics quite late into the evening. So I've become very much an evening person. So I guess that slightly slower into the day works for me.

Have you got to do something later, another interview? I imagine you're being interviewed all the time. I haven't got to do an interview after this but I have to prepare for tomorrow where I have two important one important interview and one important meeting where I have to prepare and actually there's a breaking news story that I'm part of as we're doing this where I'm challenging Boris Johnson with something that he said in Parliament that wasn't correct. And I know that my researcher, and I probably should just have a quick glimpse at WhatsApp, will be in touch. And he might be saying, look, you've got a news interview, or can you do this? Or can you do that? So I could obviously be suddenly doing

Newsnight or whatever. Yeah, well, I'd really like you to just elaborate on that. You know, I think you'll definitely say it much better than me. But Boris Johnson apparently said in Prime Minister... Well, you put it to him that he hadn't addressed as many of the things that he said he had within the Lammy review. So he was asked a question in Prime Minister's Questions this week by the MP for Lewisham east about the lammy review which is my review that i was asked to do by david cameron into the problems of the criminal

justice system and the over-representation of black asian and minority ethnic people in our criminal justice system and i did this review three years ago. I had 35 recommendations in the review. I've been saying to the government, just get on with it, implement this review. And countless others, by the way, that have come to Parliament. And the prime minister said, well, we have implemented 16 of LAMI's recommendations. And actually, if you go to the Ministry of Justice website where they respond every six months to my review and you look through the record, it's very clear that they haven't implemented 16 of my recommendations. I think that's a real stretch. I would say somewhere more like sort of six to 10 of my recommendations have they implemented. And so, you know, you can't democracy doesn't work if you've got the prime minister misleading the House.

So I'm challenging to correct the record because that's just not true. I mean, he's misleading us not only with this, but with Corot. I mean, this is the narrative of this government. And when does this break? Well, there's a lot of news around today. So what I want to say in a kind of slightly highbrow way, because it's sort of important to think about this in the context of the uk we've got two major political parties which actually are coalitions

you know they're big parties because actually within those parties are different views and they have different visions of our past and different visions of our future but the bottom line is the way our system works is britain on the whole is not a revolutionary country it's an evolutionary country unlike many of our continental brothers and sisters in europe that have had major revolutions we do things incrementally that only works if you've got a system based on good faith. It only works if you assume good faith. You have different views, but let's assume good faith. When you ask somebody, when David Cameron reached across the aisle and said, David Lammy, can you do this piece of work for me?

And I said, yes, thank you. I will do it. I'll do it seriously. And I delivered a report deliberately that was cross party. It was, and that's pretty cross party in those days because david cameron theresa may michael gove jeremy corbin kia starmer i was thinking ahead was on the advisory board of my review it landed everyone accepted it good faith says now get on and implement those recommendations if you constantly kick stuff into the long grass, you don't take it seriously.

I'll tell you what happens. What happens is what we're seeing in the United States of America. People give up on mainstream politicians like me. They take to the streets. They get angry. They get upset. They set things on fire. And so this stuff is serious.

And it's a serious thing when the prime minister says oh we've done it but actually they haven't done it at all what was really interesting david i was at the one of the protests black lives matter protests at high park on on the saturday and one of the biggest cheers thank you thank you well i've seen you i've seen and i know you you can't really go out marching and you you've implored people too if they can and they feel comfortable. And I, you know, I respect that. And one of the biggest cheers

and one of the biggest chants was implement the Lammy Review. Implement the Lammy Review. God, I didn't know that. That makes me almost feel teary. I didn't know that. Yeah, and like, honestly, you're becoming a leader with being able to speak

on behalf of the black community and Black Lives Matter movement, I believe. And maybe I'm putting words in people's mouths and whatnot, becoming a leader with be able to speak on behalf of the black community and black lives matter movement i believe and and maybe i'm putting words in people's mouths and whatnot but um how does it feel that potentially that's i mean can you feel that i mean i can feel the energy in these protests and the responsibility can you feel that well i yes i I guess I don't really think about that very much. I mean, I suppose what I feel at these moments, it first happened in the riots back in 2011. It happened again, very sadly, during the Windrush scandal. And then again, when Grenfell occurred.

And I suppose I feel, thank you, God, and I do say God because I'm religious, for putting me there with the experience I now have. I've been in this game 20 years. I'm seasoned. I've got scars on my back that know I'm seasoned. I'm not a newbie or a novice. And so I'm pleased in a way that I'm where I am today in British public life because I think I've got the equipment to deal with it.

I've got the resources. I've got good support. I know what I'm saying. So that's what I feel. But I do. You know, you're hearing this a lot, aren't you? I mean, a lot of black folk just sort of say i'm tired i'm tired and that's why i said uh jesse thanks so much for going because you'll understand this i know jewish friends really understand this the black community in the end is three percent of the population it's tiny it doesn't feel so tiny in London but in the country it's tiny and and minority communities need solidarity they need allies and allies is not just a a little bit of talk it's a it's a verb it means doing so thank you for doing and that's what really excites me that I'm seeing um you know black and white taken to the streets and actually amongst millennials,

Generation Y, particularly, there's an articulacy about race that doesn't exist as you go further up the tree. You know, I'm constantly, I get interviews saying, you know, is Britain racist? Have you experienced racism? Is there anything of white privilege? And I think, really? In 2020, you know, you're asking me that question let me just let me just break this down for you black people have been making comedy about racism from eddie murphy to dave chappelle to chris rock to lenny henry they've been making books from james baldwin to maya angelou to tony morrison they've been singing i'm not gonna go for the rage of music where have you been you know so of course we're tired that it's now a conversation

that has to be about majority culture saying you know why does this pernicious thing keep reinventing itself why can't we we get over this fear that means we can kneel and kill a black man in eight minutes 40 46 seconds that's what's required now it needs allies it needs people getting in there getting stuck in and being articulate about the subject and not just relying on black people to talk about it yet again well yeah exactly it's our responsibility we have to you know it's it shouldn't be a well yeah exactly it's our responsibility we have to you know it's it shouldn't be a debate anymore and it's our responsibility to change it not black people we need to be the louder voice that's how i feel anyway because it's it's our problem it's

not it's um anyway i mean it was just it was really it was powerful when everyone was saying it and the i i saw an 11 year old girl speak to everyone so beautifully and she was inspired and it was like a safe space for people. They had like four different sections for people to speak at. And then they had a main stage. And so everyone was just kind of listening and it was very LGBTQ focused because of the pride month. And it was beautiful.

But the 11 year old girl, she came up and spoke. She was inspired, but her dad had just spoken and she'd been inspired by everyone else and there was a trust there and it was so beautiful and you know i'm yeah i i'm sure everyone could be doing more but i'm trying my best but um well we're living through extraordinary times it does feel a bit like um i imagine the 60s felt like i am not sort of i wasn't there on those marches and those campaigns I wasn't born but it sort of feels a bit like there's a moment that's a sort of breakthrough moment and I think that

the truth is you know baby boomers are still very much in the driving seat you know you can see it in the American election you've got some very old folk that want to run the country and then you've got me my generation gen x's were quite a small generation but mini baby. And then you've got me, my generation, Gen Xers. We're quite a small generation, but mini baby boomers. Then you've got these generations after us who aren't quite got the levers of power, but when they get the levers of power, it's going to be really exciting. And that's the sort of transition that we're in. You grew up in Tottenham.

Were your parents first generation? So my parents, my dad came from Guyana in 1956 at the age of 24. So he was part of that Windrush. My mother was his second wife I have three older brothers and she came a bit later sort of 69 70. Is she from Guyana as well? She's from Guyana as well yeah and yeah they were the way I describe the wind rush are people who came to this country gave so much and took so little that's just the way to sum them up to be honest and actually during the you know as i was going to challenge the government on the windrush scandal

in that speech that i made in parliament and that was recently replayed on the bbc and at the end of sitting in limbo the fantastic drama on the Windrush Scramble. Oh, my goodness. I sort of recalled that I was going to start my speech by talking about my parents. And then I suddenly realised that I couldn't because I thought, I'm just going to start crying. And I cannot stand up in Parliament to challenge Amber Rudd and start with, my dad came to this country in 1956

and my mother followed soon after. That was how I was going to start. And they worked so hard. And I just thought, no, because I'm just going to lose it. And I cannot do that on behalf of the black community. So I started in a much more sober way. I quickly texted my office, when did the first... Oh, gosh.

The first slave ships arrived in the caribbean and he came back 1625 and i started in that really sober way the first slave ships arrived in the caribbean in 1625 we are inextricably linked to this country and that's why we were british citizens because you brought us from Africa. And of course, that was a very sober way to start. All my colleagues around me were like, oh, fuck, it's none of his slavery. But it was just so that I had to centre myself as I sort of, you know, built up to the crescendo. And I still got quite passionate. So you, well, you're very young, I can tell.

But you were born a little while after they'd settled down here. Or your dad came in. So when did they meet? Had they met in Guyana or they met here? Actually, she was his second know what she was coming to. And she talked a lot about snow for the first time and, you know, and the cold. And actually also, I think she thought she was coming. I mean, my mother was a very prim country girl i mean terribly sort of actually she told a story i write about this in my book actually tribes she she told a story she's tell the story my mother i should say my mother and father had a very

tempestuous marriage i mean it wasn't great right and she used to wind my dad up by saying, you do realise that when I came on that plane to Britain, I was sat next to Cherique Kane. Now, Cherique Kane had just become Miss World from Guyana and was coming to marry Michael Kane. And my mother told this story as if Michael Kane had a choice. It should have been her to wind up my dad but she thought she was coming to something more glamorous than the bed sit in Finsbury Park where she where she ended up she sounds like Hortense in Small Island it's just not quite what she imagined it would be and

she's very proper so you you come from a religious christian background my mother was very religious and we bounced around i was a cathedral chorister i got this break and i became a chorister yes i was i used to i was a young aled jones but you look beautiful in your little choir suit well i always say it's a bit like a billy elliott story for me um there i was in tottenham um my music teacher at my local primary school the priest the head teacher conspired they said to my mummy she'd go on voice trials I went on voice trials and literally going and being a cathedral chorist in Peterborough was my big break now for Billy Elliot it was a ballet dress for for me it was a dress but I it obviously it put me on a trajectory that I suppose has got me to

this point so you went to school in Peterborough I did so that was a special church school then it was a church school I boarded there it was a state boarding school you know I was the only black kid there so I'm not going to say it was always easy it wasn't but I did flourish there ultimately and I'm very very fond of the people of Peterborough of East Anglia and what that bit of middle England gave me really I know people associate me with Tottenham and I'm very proud of Tottenham and I'm a Spurs supporter Peterborough is my sort of second home you know I I feel at peace when I go to Peterborough Cathedral and I sort of realise that I don't you know I'm not there are bits of me that are very much from Peterborough there I'm not I'm not all Tottenham actually is the truth. And was your mum a good cook?

Oh, was my mother a good cook? Well, I mean, was my mother a good cook? My mum was an incredible cook. People came from miles for my mum's food. I mean, you know, my mum, in Guyanese cooking, a bit like Trinidadian cooking, it's wonderful. The best curries in the Caribbean. Wonderful rotis. There's a dish called pepper pot, which is like a wonderful beef stew.

Hers was the best. She made the most amazing patties. You know, you know, I suppose they're like Cornish pasties, but just yummy. She loved food. She loved cooking. She loved to experiment. And actually, you know know her food changed over the years I mean you know she became really good at a Sunday roast and you know all sorts of other things actually

but she was a wonderful wonderful cook and she was a sort of of that tradition where she had great huge satisfaction from people eating her food and enjoying her food and cooking for events and cooking for people but also that sort of slightly because she had this sort of shy nature she would cook for folk and then not eat herself you know almost take more delight in

them eating than her actually eating at all very very strange i'm the same sort of person but you eat it mom i do eat it so so when you went to boarding school i guess the food was indifferent it was different did your mom ever give you little care packages of food could you have a pepper pot under your bed i don't know like she gave me you know she would wrap up loads of patties and you know it was the era of Tupperware boxes. And she used to sell Tupperware. So I had loads of Tupperware and lots of very, you know, actually before I went to Peter,

I said that I'd never been on an inner city train. But when we did go on holiday, we'd take these coach trips to Skegness or Eastbourne or somewhere like that. And, you know, I remember all these Caribbean folk in loads of coaches going to Skegness and then opening up their Tupperware pots with their curries on the beach. So very, very, very fond memories of the food that I grew up with. And I guess that's why I'm a bit of a foodie. Have you tried any Guyanese keto dishes?

Could that work? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe there's a new book in there for you, David. Lots of meat, lots of veg. But I suppose... That'll be all right. It's the rice. It's the rice and the rotis.

Guyana is a country of obviously descendants from Africa who came over as slaves and indentures workers from India who came over from India after the end of slavery and Chinese it's a real fusion of all three of those different traditions my mother's grandmother was from Calcutta so yeah it's quite hard to to do keto yeah you kind of need the rice don't you you need the rice you almost need your fingers in the you know yeah so when you got married did you have a kind of what was your wedding feast like your wedding breakfast oh well so let me just say something wonderful about my wonderful wife. My wife is a woman called Nicola Green.

She is an artist and she is she too has a kind of mixed up heritage. Her mother is of Russian stock, no longer with us. And her father has sort of was white, South African and white, very upper middle class English. I think he took a DNA test and has Jewish genes as well, somewhere along the line there. And Nicola, my mother loved Nicola, by the way. She also loves cooking. I mean, she's got a job, a big job and works and things. So she's not like my mum. She's not sort of hanging around the kitchen the whole time uh but she does

get a lot of satisfaction from cooking and actually we get a lot of satisfaction from cooking together but what did you have at your wedding oh what do we have about the wedding the wedding we had our wedding was a we wanted a sort of fusion thing so So we had Caribbean food that was sort of not Nouvelle cuisine, but it was high-end Caribbean food. It was a wonderful wedding. We merged two traditions. We had the London Gospel Choir, but we also got married in St Margaret's Westminster

next to Westminster Abbey and had the Westminster Abbey Choir as well. So it's a real coming together of joy and music and singing and, you know, this big mixed heritage wedding and good Caribbean food, but high end. Did you sing at the wedding? I did not sing at the wedding. I am in the Parliamentary Choir.

Are you? Who else is in? There's a parliamentary choir. Who else is in? Fantastic. When do you have time to sing? I don't. I don't.

I don't get to the practice. So I'm not. I tend to do the Christmas concert and that's it because I'm so busy. And I don't like singing without practice. All right. I want to know who's in. Who gets the solos? Bernard Jenkin.

Barry Gardner, I think's in it. So it's cross-party. Oh, it's cross-party. And actually, the most important thing to understand, actually, there are a few MPs in it, but it's really staff that work for MPs, cleaners, porters, people who work in the Palace of Westminster.

And it's a great, great choir, and it's 20 years old. Actually, it's 20 years old this year and as of this week, I've been in Parliament 20 years. This week was the anniversary of me being in 20 years. Mazel Tov. That's a big thing.

It is. And I was thinking of having a little event and I sort of, obviously lockdown killed it and I only just remembered as I was talking to you. So this is my event. Oh, look, hi, Mazel to you. So this is my event. Oh, look I'm

muzzled off. Thank you for staying around. Where's the best Caribbean restaurant in London? Oh my god, there are loads. Tottenham High Road Peppers and Spice. I swear there's a Peppers and Spice in Dalston too. Am I making this up?

Yes, there's probably a Peppers and Spice in Dalston too. It's making this up? Yes, there's probably a Peppers and Spice in Dalston too. It's really good, yeah. It's Stroud Green. I'd rate Granny's Caribbean. Granny's Caribbean. What's the Guionese place that Sam likes, Jessie? There's this one in, we used to live in Herne Hill. And there was this really good one.

And she's amazing. She does a market. She's so amazing. Her rotis are incredible. There's a wonderful, wonderful Trinidadian Caribbean in the market in Brixton, just down on Cold Harbour Lane. Really good food. He does a fantastic fish curry. Really good.

I've been there. It's really, really good. Very tasty. Yes. Yeah. So I wanted to know what your last supper or desert island meal would be. It has a starter, a main, a pud, drink of choice. And forget keto doesn't have to be involved in this.

Yeah. Forget keto. Oh, starter. Probably fish. You know, really, really good fresh squid. Oh, yeah. Or scallops, really fresh. I'm imagining that I'm sort of in southern France or Italy

and it's sort of just, you know, actually all the Caribbean. Okay. I think the main... I actually had the most amazing... Again, it was fish. It was like a sort of snapper in the most amazing tomato sauce I've ever had in my life. Tomato, paprika. Where was this?

I'm going to tell you, you're going to love it. Onions, garlic in a huge dish. And everyone took a bit of this fish, huge dish, and it was in Tel Aviv. Boy, it was tasty. If I could have that again, I'd die happy. That was really tasty as a main. And then I think dessert is probably a bit boring. I love, love, love cheesecake.

I just don't get cheesecake. I don't get it. I'll eat it if it's there. But I don't think I've ever had like a sub love cheesecake. Oh. I just don't get cheesecake. I don't get it. I'll eat it if it's there. But I don't think I've ever had like a sublime cheesecake. Chesky, this isn't your last supper. It's his, so it's fine. No, Shona, it's fine. It's fine.

What would you drink? What do you like to drink? Oh, I think I... This sounds like such a champagne socialist. Champagne? No, no no not champagne not champagne actually champagne gives me a headache no um but a bit of a lightweight i suppose this kind of weather that we've got now in london i can only really drink um you know either a g and t because i'm on this diet but uh if not that it's a rose really really. I love a good rosé. Oh yeah, which is your favourite?

Whispering Angel. Mum, you are sounding, you're sounding a tad basic now. Sorry, I like it. I love you. Sorry. It is good but yeah. Is that a rosé you've got there?

Yeah. Oh is it? Oh God, I want one now. You're a good singer. Do you like karaoke? No, I don't like making a fool of myself. I don No, I don't like making a fool of myself. I don't. I don't like making a fool of myself.

Okay, if we forced you at my big birthday party to choose a karaoke song, which would it be? I just had that come into my head. I don't want to sing. There's a place for us somewhere. Oh, don't. I'm going to cry. There's a place for us. Somewhere. Oh, don't. I'm going to cry. There's a place for us.

West Side Story. Somewhere a place for us. Oh, yes. Love that. It is a good song, that, actually. So that's what came into my head. You know, a good rendition of Somewhere is kind of, you know, just takes you somewhere. It's a good song, isn't it?

Same, David. Oh, it's beautiful. I, just takes you somewhere. It's a good song, isn't it? Same, David. Oh, it's beautiful. I love that musical, though. It's fabulous. Somewhere. Oh, yes. Yeah, the emperor has no clothes. Imagine if Parliament did musicals, too.

Oh, you could do Panto and Boris comes. Oh, no, Jake morris what's it reese morgan come on everyone go boo he's behind you when did your book come out so my book came out just before the lockdown. Oh, same, us authors. It was a nightmare, wasn't it? The book is called Tribes. Okay. And it's me talking personally about,

first off, the tribes I'm from. So I talk about Tottenham and being in the Caribbean. I talk about Peterborough and what that city means to me and what it gave me. And I take a DNA test to find out my tribe. And the tribe I'm from are the, or my mother's, mother's, mother's, mother's, mother's, are the Tuareg tribe. The sort of Berber tribe in Niger. And they go all the way up to sort of, I don't know, Morocco, Algeria.

And they're called the blue people and they're nomadic people. And I go back and spend time with these folk. Oh, wow. And I write about that in the book. And they're really wonderful. It's very poor. But it's just amazing being in the desert basically with them. But, you know, I sort of reflect that i'm not in the end a tuareg i am but i'm not really tottenham in the caribbean a lot to me peterborough

means a lot to me i go back there and i speak to people who voted for brexit people who i know who i care about who have different views to me on immigration and sort of subjects like that and then ultimately i talk about where we are, identity politics, which people are talking about a lot, Black Lives Matter, loneliness, depression, why people send me death threats and hate mail. And I get into that and then I come out the other end and I say, look, we've got to come together

and how do we come together? So that's what the book's about. But I mean, I can see it on my Instagram when I put up I mean it's infuriating and it's ridiculous but whenever I put up something, well no something political whether it's encouraging people to vote, to register to vote

I did back Sadiq Khan in the mayor elections and used my platform to say that whether it's Black Lives Matter movement, the comments, you know, and I get a very few amount of comments that will maybe say an all lives matter or and I'm kind of like cool, clear off, bye.

And, but you, you get so much, you must get so much of this on a regular with Twitter. I mean, it's, it's toxic, no? It can be brilliant and toxic. It's really toxic. Some of it, I mean, I've become hardened to it. I mean it's it's toxic no it can be brilliant and toxic it's really toxic some of I mean I've become hardened to it I expect it I don't look at the feed anymore anymore I think the stuff that gets under your skin is the stuff that comes into the office it's the death threats and it's particularly if you don't know if people are going to go through

with it and so a lot of this stuff ends up with the police people get prosecuted in the book i write about going and meeting a a guy who who sent me a death threat and we're in court and uh and it's weird because he's you know we're in a court in wolverhampton i'm there his lawyer is is muslim and you know i think the judge was you know it's just like what's going on this is bad um but in the end there's something going on in society isn't there that sort of a lot of these platforms are driving division um there are outside countries manipulating it in terms of bots and stuff like that. And so this sort of the way in which we're getting pulled into these silos and then also actually worryingly young people, you know, it's the mental health.

It's not good. It's just not good. So anyway, I think you've got to take it seriously after Joe Cox. Very. Yeah. I suppose the way to put it is that I've become hardened to it, my wife and my kids are not hardened to it. How do you prepare them? Well, I think it's horrible for kids. The panic amongst young people, I mean, my kids, because of Joe Cox, there wasn't the wonderful policeman PC Palmer that was killed in Parliament and attacked. wonderful policeman PC Palmer that was killed in parliament and attacked you know my kids were really worried coming back from school that I remember it happened in the afternoon they were coming back from school they did you know MPs were sort of shut down parliament was shut down and we were sort of locked in the chamber for a bit you don't quite know what is someone else

running around parliament and there's a sort of moment of of of real worry and we've actually also sadly had had people um you know knocking on the door and things so it's it's that's that's the age in which we live thank you very much to the metropolitan police for all that they do to keep me safe oh david it's been such a pleasure chatting to you. Such a pleasure. And, um, thank you. I've, I've really enjoyed this. Good. So much.

good. Um, keep fighting the good fight. Thank you for all you're doing. And, um, and all you're saying I'm, I'm listening and I love you.

Thank you so much. What a lovely man. Oh, what a guy. He was just so interesting. Thank you, David Lammy, for taking your time out on like the hottest day of the year. It is schvitzing in London town. What a nice man. he was just so delightful well i'm going on the keto diet because he looked gorgeous yeah he looks great and that salad sounded fab david lammy's book that came out at the beginning of lockdown is called

tribes and it's uh how our need to belong can or Break Society. So everyone have a read of that. And thanks so much, David. I really, really enjoyed that. I feel like I have fire in my belly now. And I feel like, well, he can go and change the world. And I'll try and help him a little bit. Good, Jessie. Thanks for listening, everybody.

And goodbye. Jessie's switched off already. Thank you. Bye.