Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S9 Ep 4: Vanessa Williams

Episode Date: February 26, 2020

Legend of stage and screen Vanessa Williams joined us for dinner and we could NOT believe we had a Grammy, Tony and Emmy nominee in our kitchen. The Desperate Housewives star tells us all about her new West End show ‘City Of Angels’ and we chat about Vanessa’s incredible worldwide travels, her outrageous Thanksgiving turkey-basting traditions and the Ugly Betty wedding that took place at her LA house! We had an honest chat about her misunderstood Miss America resignation and even got a singalong of the total karaoke classic ‘Save The Best For Last’. Vanessa, we absolutely loved you with all the Colours Of The Wind (YES, she was the voice of Disney’s Pocahontas) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my mum. Hi. This raspy voice that we both have is... Your fault. My fault? Yeah. Of course. I'd like to say it was Belgrade's fault. I don't know. Belgrade?

Well, basically the guests that we have on tonight we had to cancel last week because I was shooting my music video in Belgrade, my new favorite place. Amazing. Brilliant, brilliant food. I went to the most brilliant vegetarian restaurant that was kind of hidden in this beautiful house. Wow. I'm getting enthusiastic about vegetarian food, darling. I really, actually, I will tell the listeners that you, in fact, made a vegetarian meal on Saturday. And that was without any pushing from or prompting from sam or i yeah and it was delicious yep so thank you for that born again veggie born again veggie yeah okay so what are we having today we're having chicken

we are having uh v no it wouldn't be vegan if it's got eggs in, will it? No. So we're having apricot chicken, which is in the cookbook. Yeah. We're having... I think last time we did it was for Loyal Corner, maybe? No, I think we did it for Haim. Oh, shit.

Cobber on original. Yeah. All the cookbook recipes are so good. We've used them and used them, so we're going to have to branch out soon. I have branched out for dessert. I've made a chocolate prune and chestnut cake. Which is a Rachel Roddy recipe that both of us saw just before Christmas. It was in The Guardian.

And both of us saw it because we both thought it would be good. We weren't spending Christmas together, but we both thought it would be good to do as a Christmas pud. So we haven't made it yet. Let's hope it's nice. Oh, it smells amazing. And then we're just doing the chicken with blanched sugar snaps and beans and a bit of orange zest and oil and salt. And then I don't know if I've done these Hasselblad. Hasselback.

Hasselback. Oh, Hasselblad's a camera, isn't it? Yeah. No, Hasselback Hasselback oh Hasselblad's a camera isn't it yeah no Hasselback potatoes yeah I thought you just put little very thin slices in it but I don't I didn't actually think you're supposed to actually cut down to almost the bottom yeah and then they fan out you just kind of serrated them okay they're gonna look a bit miserable but whatever they don't look miserable but they're not cooked that's fine they don't need to be cooked yet right no and then i've done them with bay leaves because i i do have this recipe in the cookbook that's a butter poached bay leaf roast potato but i couldn't be asked to do the butter poaching today so i just thought so i'll

try and do hassle blads and stick a bit of hassle blads hassle backed um stick a bit of Hasselblad's Hasselback's um a bit of Bailey's they look pretty with a bit of orange oh my god I can't speak um lemon zest I went out last night mum yeah but no just to talk about my raspy tones lost my voice on a 20 hour music video shoot which was amazing in Serbia in Belgrade and managed to get a cold like the day before the shoot because I'd been without my children for a couple of days because we were doing dance rehearsals don't mind me got a cold did a really long shoot and then lost my voice on the flight home and we were supposed to have Vanessa Williams on that evening and so we had to cancel and they were very, very kind and understanding. She's a bit of a superstar, Jessie. Yeah, I know. And we cancelled her.

We postponed. We postponed. I hope she doesn't hold it against us. Well, tonight's guest is currently rehearsing her West End debut, which is for the City of Angels, which is going to be at the Garrick Theatre. Yeah. You may know her through one of the most famous songs in the world that would have kind of probably

been part of your childhoods save the best for last or you may know her as the scary boss in ugly betty the scary beautiful boss she is grammy tony emmy and os nominated. And she was Miss America. She was the first black Miss America. She's kind of done everything. Stop, mum. Stop buying shit on Amazon for my daughter. She loves it. The baby loves it now.

It's horrendous. That's a horse that looks like it's kind of got rabies or something. And it's like a mad... Plus it moves its mouth? Yeah, like nearly bites your head off. Anyway, mum, it's big week. I know, darling. I've got music out.

I've told everyone. I think people have forgotten they actually make music. And for some of you listeners, hello, my name is Jessie Ware. I am an internationally acclaimed podcaster with my mother, who we all know is the star. But actually, this is my fourth record that's going to be coming out. Darling, you're a fabulous singer. I've told everyone.

Yes, I have a new song out, Spotlight. This will come out, actually, and the song won't be out yet so it's two days until the single and then what, eight days until the book. Eight days. Bloody big, big fortnight mum.

Big fortnight darling. Yeah, so if you are enjoying this, perhaps you will enjoy my song, my disco. Yeah. My disco flavoured song. I'm so glad it's lively darling

and joyful. I'm so sorry that my last three albums were dull... Well, I'm so glad it's lively, darling, and joyful. I'm so sorry that my last three albums were dull to you. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Mum. They weren't dull, darling. I love a ballad. Well, you know what? I'm bringing you groove this time, Mother.

Good. We've got Vanessa Williams coming up on Table News. Vanessa. Yes. Vanessa yes thank you for shlapping over to South London there's no traffic so it wasn't too much

of a shlap and thank you for being so understanding about the fact that I lost my voice last week basically I did one of those like long

long ass music videos that like went for 20 hours and also had a cold so then woke up in the morning and had no voice but um yeah i'm sure you've done plenty plenty of those but um yeah it's a pleasure to

have you thank you thank you and we um yeah i mean i you know i know some bits about you but i guess i i know you have four children i do and you have had this amazing career where you've been up for the most amount of Grammys I've ever heard of anybody and kind of

haven't won any but and she still looks 23 bless you but like Emmys Grammys

Tonys Oscars well I sang I sang yeah yeah yeah again

don't have any of those in my office. That's annoying. But nominations are all good. Yeah, but still. The nominations are. But I've lived a career. I mean, I'm 56 years old.

I've done everything and more than I wanted to do in my life. I wanted to be on Broadway. I grew up about 45 minutes outside New York City. I saw all the Broadway shows going up. I danced. I sang and acted. Both my parents are music teachers. So music and the arts were something that was very natural and encouraged. And, you know, if obviously if I didn't have any talent, my parents would say, why don't you look

at something else? But they saw, you know, I trained and they knew that education was the way to get better. So I majored in musical theater when I got to college at Syracuse University. So when I wanted to do it Syracuse University so when I wanted to to do it as a profession they didn't say they didn't discourage me so um Broadway was the easiest thing for me because I knew it was a train ride away and it's an audition away and I said okay that I could do but being on the radio I never thought in my lifetime that I would be a recording artist so how long did it take? Like, how long were you doing Broadway for?

Well, um... Did that, that's the way it started? No, it started because I had done two years at university. After my second, uh, so your freshman year as a musical theater major is your core year. So it's only piano, voice, acting. Did you play voice acting did you play yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and again having two parents as music teachers I started violin then I was piano and then I switched to French horn oh geez I had to play till I graduated high school that was orchestra yeah were you like marching band chorus orchestra concert band yeah so i had no choice it was a requirement in our

household but which one was your favorite instrument i mean piano just because i can sit down and play and it's always there even though now i'm really rusty but i you know i love the the fact that i could you know when we go into studio, I can read music and it's not like, Oh, she's the girl singing. Oh boy. That's why I should have made you. You shouldn't have got me an alcoholic piano teacher who stunk of tuna. I'm sorry. It put me off. Such a shame. But, um, but yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was part of the requirement. So my sophomore year is when you could start doing shows. So I was in every show that was available.

And I was Equity, which I think you have here. The Union. The Union. Yeah, yeah. So there was an Equity production that I auditioned for and got a role. That would have gotten me some of my Equity points to be a professional. And it was for Cyrano de Bergerac. It got canceled.

That's on now at the moment, I think no are you doing it's James McAvoy in it oh is it maybe I've completely made that up but I swear he's in anyway right so it's a classic yes so I got I was the orange girl but I I got cast in it and it fell apart and I had the last month of university free like in April and they had been the local pageant had been coming to my shows and saying do you want to do Miss Greater Syracuse and I was from New York I was like no I'm not a pageant girl no no no so I had this free time and I called my mom and said listen do you think I should do this pageant it's mid-April she's like is there money I said yeah the scholar because I had gotten scholarships. And she said, well, then do it. So I ended up singing a song that I did in performance class called

Being Good Isn't Good Enough. Being good won't be good enough. When I fly, I must fly extra high. But I'll need special wings so far to go from so far below. Should I try? Am I strong enough is there time have I long enough

gotta fly and if I fall that's the way it's gotta be there's no other way for me being good just won't be good enough I'll be the best on my thing at all

So that's from a musical called Hallelujah Baby. I've never heard of it. Give marriage a what? Great. To the Brits. We'd be like, oh no, we don't.

Leslie Uggams actually won a Tony for that. That was a great song. Back in the 60s. I love that. So I did that in performance class. I go, I'll sing that.

I ended up winning. So then I went to the States, sang the same song, ended up winning that. So I was supposed to go to London my junior year, had my roommate, paid my money, everything, and I go to Miss America thinking, I won't win. I'll be in London in a week. I ended up winning the whole thing.

So at 20 years old, I became Miss America. Jesus Christ. So that's how it all happened. But like the most reluctant Miss America ever, ever it was. Who gave you the trophy? Who was running Miss America then? It was, it's a mom and pop, so that's, Miss USA is like a business. Miss America is like from Atlantic City, and it was kind of a seaside pageant back in the

20s, and it was always a scholarship pageant with talent. Miss USA doesn't have a talent component. I mean, not only were you Miss America, you were the first black. Yeah. Which again, at 20 years old, I had no idea that I would be a representation. Everything I said would be, you know, written about and discussed and debated and stuff. So it was so much. I look at my kids.

My kids now are 32, 30, 26, and 19. And I look at them and I look at Sasha right now, who's 19, and like, I could not imagine the amount of fame that I had at her age. She's a model, right? She's a film major. She's at Chapman University. She models on the side. But like uh Chapman University she's on the side but like I mean she models on the side but like with Serena like Serena Williams no biggie and

like is the most beautiful girl ever and like yeah she's a film major so she's uh she's in her sophomore year now and uh she was just here for her she had a little uh broad program here and she did a week here in London a week in Paris and then she's coming back for spring break she's coming back while i'm doing the show does she like london she loves it if i told her that i was going to move here she'd be like great sell the house i'm there she loves it do you love it i do i do what do you like about it um so being from new york it's this is charming because you know new york is enormous, and I know how to drive it, and I grew up there. I love the village.

I love Soho and Camden and Covent Garden. You know, I love walking. I walk every day. And at home, I drive in, park in the parking garage, do my business, and go back home. But I love how charming it is. I love the people are, have been, and again, I'm here doing a great show.

We're in rehearsal right now, doing a show called City of Angels. It's going to be opening as a Garrick. And coming over as an artist, the arts are revered here. So it's, that's a- They are in New York. They are.

Yeah, they are. In a small, yeah, yeah. and you get enthusiastic audiences in new york yeah they'll clap after when you walk in they'd clap yeah yes i asked about that oh yeah that doesn't have entrances here they don't no but there might be some but there might well i haven't had a lot of friends that are coming over so stop it they won't clap after your song they'll wait till the end of the hour. Oh, really? So they don't even do that. Oh, good to know. We're really polite.

It's annoying. There's usually an entrance, they're like, okay. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. You're resumed. I mean, I've never seen it here. Have you? No, they don't clap. But you're famous. You're going to be someone that people are coming to see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, this is a very glamorous show. I mean, it's got a real star-studded cast. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah and again this is a very glamorous show i mean it's got a real star-studded yeah cast yeah yeah yeah that handsome theo jesus christ i have to kiss him every show he's so handsome what's his name theo james yeah he was in divergent that was a kind of his big breakout thing but he's done series in the States. And his American accent is fantastic. I asked him.

Is he? He's not American? No, he's British. Oh, what? No, he's British. You could have kissed him. I could have kissed him. Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's quite nice to me. Dishy. Yeah. And Nicola's in it. Nicola's in it. Love it. Great voice. Yeah.

Great voice. Nicola who? Nicola from God's Love. Oh, she's fabulous. And this is the first timeola's in it. Love it. Great voice. Yeah. Great voice. Nicola who? Nicola from God's Land. Oh, she's fabulous. And this is the first time she's ever done anything on stage. The first role ever. So she's loving it. So I tried to read a kind of synopsis of City of Angels.

It was on at the Donmar like six years ago. Yes. Yes. And same Josie Rourke who did it and was a creative director of the Donmar. This is the similar production with a similar creative team. Of course on a much bigger scale at the Garrick. But in a

nutshell it's a story of a writer in the 1940s who's writing a film noir screenplay. So it goes from his reality which is color into black and white which is the film back into color, back into black and white, which is the film, back into color, back into black and white.

He does rewrites, so sometimes you'll see us do the same scene differently, written differently. Then sometimes you'll see us do the same scene with different people, and it ends up being kind of madness at the end where, I don't know if I have to tell you, but at the end where he's not happy with where he is with the screen play because so many different people have got,

it's just like television, you know, where you write something and the network has their notes and then the producers have their notes. And all of a sudden you're like, what, where was what you bought from me? Which is the same thing with music.

Oh yeah. Exactly. Oh yeah. You're compromising. Well, okay. And then all of a sudden like, I didn't want this did have you done that before then do you feel like you have compromise it's a compromise i think it's always a compromise which is always frustrating have you ever regretted a compromise that you've made

this is in terms of like in terms of music and yeah um uh yes in terms of music selection uh where you know i did an album uh for atlantic which was all it was supposed to be my my favorite hits from my childhood but then of course they go well you know show and tell was huge on the you know that's the number one it gets a lot of repeat so so i ended up singing show and tell which was maybe my parents and one of their you have to like a tenuous link so there was definitely a chunk of those that were the compromise of oh these have been number ones we want these and then some that were organically mine but has there ever been a thing where you felt like oh they they were right uh we Well, Save the Best for Last I knew was a great melody. Can you sing that one now?

Sometimes the snow comes down in June Sometimes the sun goes round the moon I see the passion in your eyes Sometimes it's all a big surprise Cause there was a time and all I did was wish You'd tell me this was love It's not the way I hoped or how I planned But somehow it's enough

But now we're standing face to face Isn't this world a crazy place? Just when I thought our chance had passed You go and save the best for last God, you just, it's very easy for you. She's completely in tune as well. I know, but you smile all the way through it. You love singing.

I do. I do. Yeah, I do. Do your parents sing? Yes, they were not professionally, but they met in music school. My dad was studying instruments, music education. My mom was studying vocals. studying instruments,

music education. My mom was studying vocals. And then they met in college and then they got married and became music teachers. Tell me about Save the Best. So tell me the story around that. So when I heard the demo, it was just piano

and I was like, this is beautiful. I had no idea the enormity of the hit. Bette Midler passed on it. Barbra Streisand had passed on it. I love this story. Which I didn't know.

Barbra, Barbra, you snooze your lips, baby. So, you know, and I'm sure they were hoping for them to go first and say yes. Oh, no, I think your voice suits it the best. Yeah, so I had no idea. So at that time, Barbara, Bette, they're all killing it. How many albums in are you this was the second album but again i was always so i was kind of labeled the beauty queen which is really tough

because it negates it doesn't matter how many shows i was in and negates any kind of talent or intellect so my i was always trying to prove myself acting wise and musically and uh so it's almost like i had to backdoor everything but with the great thing is it gave you a team that really wanted to prove that we could do it so i had like the scrappy producers that really hadn't had a hit but they want to have a hit with me so i had that kind of fighter mentality with a scrappy group of people that were winning willing to prove as opposed to the big david fosters and which i've worked with david foster but the biggies where they'd work with they were dealing with the pros i was you haven't earned that place yet right but then actually you kind

of make you make amazing music with the people that really want to make the music exactly right yeah and then of course when it comes to the radio well she didn't really sing that and then you do it on the grammys okay well then maybe it's auto tunes like dude no you know so it's but it's she's how exhausting but then society people make assumptions in this in this whether you're an actor whether you're anywhere people assume stuff so i've always kind of had that okay when the dust settles i'll prove it to you is this why you've kind of you've done everything really Like you've done acting where you were Wilhelmina and you were the biggest bitch and you were amazing, but you like, you killed it.

And then you go and have a save the best for last and you're like, there, there you go. And then you, I don't know, like, okay, you, you're not accidentally, but you kind of, you wouldn't miss America. That was kind of the most relaxed thing. Right. But like, it means, do you feel like you're still

having to prove yourself? Always. At know it's all staying it's but yeah it's like a you know back in the day 40 38 we were kind of like over in terms of being an ingenue and then 40 we were playing the mothers and you know you know what i mean uh and now you know luckily television is there's so many more options now for women's roles and stuff but you still have to like stay fit stay in the game stay interesting and and kind of fight for what you want to do instead of being in a spot yeah but you are so completely gorgeous that i can't imagine it must be hard some roles just wouldn't be the roles you could do because you're, because she's so gorgeous.

She couldn't be the lady that washes the clothes next door to the beautiful person because she is a beautiful person. Well, has that been a hindrance? Yeah, I think so. You don't? No,

I don't think so. So you've always got the gorgeous roles. No, not really. I get a lot of, as you said, Wilhelmina, a lot of very powerful bitchy uh strong women roles you're the least bitchy person i've ever come across you're kind of but i love playing it but but i get so i get a lot of that so actually my i've been trying to

look for stuff that's a little just more you know you know, again, being kind of put in a slot, a little more interesting. Like, you know, but the pilots that I've gotten or have not happened, definitely people cash in. Well, we know she can do that well. So she's our first call. And actually, Josie was a big fan of Ugly Betty. And Josie is the one who's directing City of Angels. And she wrote me a lovely letter and she was the one that got me, you know, in here because she said, I've got this production.

It did really well, but you are, I admire your talent. I've been watching you for years. I think you'd really kill this role. And then when we got, we did FaceTime, she was, you know, the role, the letter acknowledged my talent, but it knew that I could do more and she wanted to give me more.

And that was kind of, and she's also a female director and it was just cool to hear. Jessie, we've got to go. I know. When does it start? We start previews March 5th and then we open officially March 24th.

And then we're running till I'm I'm in it till uh August yeah definitely coming so how are you spending I mean you're rehearsing at the moment right yeah we're in rehearsals now so like how does your day look food wise you know you get up you're in the hotel like I just moved to an apartment okay nice so um do you like cooking I do like cooking um I haven't gotten my my kitchen together yet because I just moved to an apartment. Okay, nice. Do you like cooking? I do like cooking. I haven't gotten my kitchen together yet because I just moved in on Thursday. So I've been getting just, you know, knives and scissors and dishcloths. God, did they not even give you a bloody dishcloth? Bloody hell.

I've got my essentials, but now I've got to get the food. So do you guys don't have arugula here? Are you into arugula? It's rocket. We call it rocket. No wonder. Don't worry. I was like, where the freak is arugula? Rocket. Rocket. Okay, because I live on like, I'll do that as a bed of anything. Oh, they do it

in Tesco. If you're... Okay. You must have a Tesco or Express. It'll be a mix of like rocket, watercress, spinach. Thank you. But you can get rocket. You can get rocket. You're going to be okay. Where's your nearest supermarket?

It's across the street. But you can order on a car, though. Well, that's what I did. I tried to order and I was like, where is a roogello? I was like, blank, blank. Oh, God. I know you must. Okay, rocket.

Now I know. Cilantro is coriander. Okay. So if you like. So fresh coriander is what I want. Yep. Gotcha. So fresh cilantro will be fresh coriander. what i want yeah gotcha fresh cilantro will

be fresh coriander lovely and that's kind of all you need and then you're half and half for your coffee oh no we don't do that at all you're just gonna have to get some cream and some milk and then would you call a cream or is it full will you follow full you can get you can get creamy milk like jersey cow milk and that will It's gold top and it is heaven. Okay, okay. Gold top Jersey cow milk is like. Are you a coffee connoisseur? No, but I had my coffee brought in from, I have, my favorite is from New Orleans.

It's called Cafe Du Monde. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's chicory based. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's got a little delicious kind of unusual thing and i've been hooked on it for years so what have you flown it in yeah we can get on amazon yeah i just got like six cans yesterday i was like yeah oh wow so that's my one thing i live with coffee snobs and my son and my son-in-law

are both coffee snobs we must have about 80 bits of how to make the coffee coffee presses the drip the one from vietnam that's like oh it's like a oh no forget it's like a brew thing the one that alex got sam for christmas the bunsen burner one where you have to like light the whip and it's like it's mindless but um so okay so so i want to ask one question have you ever been a disney character with your voice no but i'm saying the colors of the wind i said colors of the wind was that the what was like that i did the soundtrack and that was the pocahontas yeah yeah would you do would you do disney uh would i do a character yeah well i have a weird not weird but um so cut to going back when i was 21 uh so i when i was just america after 10 months uh during my reign uh this

photographer that had done a shoot with who had nude pictures of me was shopping them around so it was actually july 13th fr the 13th. I do a radio interview with the New York Post about Geraldine Ferrara, who was going to be running as vice president's first female vice president on the ticket. How do you feel? I was like, great women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was about to hang up and the reporter said, Oh, by the way, I heard from a very reliable source that you're going to be uh featured in um September's penthouse I go what are you talking what he said is it true I said I have no idea what you're talking about he said well it's a very reliable source I said I have no idea what you're talking

about he said okay I called my lawyer I was like I don't know what's going on but something's about to go down and that's when we kind of scramble and try to figure out and he had been like slowly trying to sell to playboy, whatever, and Gucci. Have you been a boyfriend or something? No, no, no, no. This was a, I worked at a photography studio as a receptionist and makeup artist. And I was a teenager at the time. It was a summer job.

And he was like, you know, he got more and more familiar. I got more and more relaxed, you know, in the studio. And he's like, let me do some nudes on you no one will see them do the nudes I've got somebody that I want to bring in to do some stuff

but it's like live modelling exactly if you're a painter and we're talking back in the early 80s late 70s and she's got a great bod I would be nude modelling

but anyway but of course I was stupid did it and that's kind of what he sold so I'm trying to think where I am and story-wise.

So did Disney never touch you at the Vajpal? So when they were doing The Lion King, they called me down to play Nala. So I looked at all the cells, fantastic, blah, blah, blah. I get back to my house and my agent says, well, Disney said you're not Disney material. Jeffrey Katzenberg said you're not Disney material. You might be Hollywood pictures, but said you're not Disney material. Jeffrey Katzenberg said you're not Disney material. You might be Hollywood pictures, but you'll never be Disney material.

So that I knew very early on. When I first moved out to LA, I was probably 22, 23 at the time. So that went away. So when Pocahontas came and I'd had Save the Best for Last. You're like wholesome, beautiful. Exactly. All of a sudden, I was good enough for Disney. So it's kind of sweet revenge, but I'll never forget.

Yeah. The original. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, you said on Sunday you were in the Woolsey. One of the best places. Love the Woolsey. Yes, yes.

Brunch? Lunch? Brunch. Afternoon tea? Yes. It's cocktails. Good. Bloody Maryley. Yes, yes. Brunch, lunch. Brunch. Afternoon tea, brunch. Good cocktails. I had a Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary and a sundae is fantastic.

Well made. What else do you like? Then I was at the arcade and they had gimlets on tap, which is dangerous. Oh, gimlets on tap. Wow. Why don't we go? Yeah. Because it would just feed our addiction, Mum.

I love well-made drinks. Me too. I'm so glad cocktails are popular, aren't you? It's really good. You see, I like Cosmos. You do Cosmos? Yeah. Only because she was obsessed with Carrie Bradshaw.

No, it wasn't just that. They're not sweet. They're kind of sharp. If they're well-made, exactly. If they're well-made, they're really sharp well made if they're well made they're really sharp i really like them yeah and you get that hit of vodka and right you can't really beat that can you but i mean so with food wise like do you feel like london competes with new york with food or do you feel like you're yet to discover some of the spots in london no i've gotten lists i have

so many lists of places that I need to go. What I love is your private clubs here. I've already been in like three. Which ones? I had a photo shoot for the Gay Times, a six-page fashion shoot in Escargot. Oh, right. I didn't know.

I guess there was a private club that we shot in some beautiful drape, like, you know, very posh velvet couch and taffeta drapes and skokas you speak great yes so uh and then i went to groucho oh yeah the groucho yeah uh then um we're also we had a have you been toho House. Soho, not here. Have you been to Clove Artist? Clove Artist, no. Clove Artist is great. It's really good. And that's on Dean Street.

It's great. Yeah. I noticed that a lot of stuff is on there. You're in a good spot then. Yeah, yeah. But it's walkable. It's fun. It's fun.

So in terms of restaurants, I've yet to go out and go to everything. I'm busier than ever. Is any of your family here? your husband here no um my daughter was here for uh a week and she went back she's coming back for spring break my other daughter just booked her her flight uh for next month so they're gonna come in dribs and drabs which is all and and you're one of your daughters is in uh it's lime babe yeah who i love yeah thanks lime babe she broke over here she was yes on polydor uk they're brilliant i remember watching them uh they did the serpentine um summer party which is a brilliant like amazing party and they were

performing she was just so she was fantastic she's a great she was a dancer you know through her life and then when she went to college she had a dance concentration and she was really going to dance with a dance company she was on her way to rehearsal broke her wrist and couldn't dance in the final concert and ended up started making music and put it out on on you know on the internet and got signed. That's really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many children do you have? Four.

Three girls and one boy. Four. So you weren't a stay-at-home mom because you were working? No, I was dragging my kids everywhere. So I took my kids everywhere. Well, I saw on your Instagram there was a flashback picture of the Grammys. You were up for, say, you were up for what? Best song?

Best song, record of the year and you're pregnant yeah with devon yeah yeah yeah he was number three how did it feel back in the day i mean i got married at 23 okay i married my publicist who ended up becoming my um manager that my first at 24 second at 26 third at 30 uh we got divorced got married again i had my my fourth at 37 uh so i think back in the day all my friends had multiple kids we were in our 20s and that was kind of natural back in the 80s so um and all my kids have obviously waited and i have no grandkids yet i can't wait but uh you know it's a it's a different time but so you just bring them around they go on tour they went on tours yeah so on promo

tours you know they've been australia they were in germany they've been to paris london i would just bring them as part of you know if i had to do any top of the pops or any of the stuff back in the day but again it was a different time it was a different time that was nowadays you know record companies barely pay for anything yeah because they don't make any money because no one's buying records. Do you live in New York or LA? Yeah, I live in New York. So where are you from? In Westchester County.

Oh, I know that. Yeah, yeah. I saw Barry White there. Did you? Did you? When I was, I must have been 22. At the Westchester Premier Theatre? Oh my.

I went up on the train to see him. Oh my God. Yeah. Barry White and the Three Degrees. Yeah. Wow. And he was wonderful. Yeah.

I know exactly where, yeah. So you live in Westchester County. Mm-hmm. And do you go into New York to eat or do you eat locally? Yeah, I go in when I have business and, you know, when I'm doing a gig or something or when I'm meeting friends and stuff. Where's some of your go-to spots in New York? Uh,

I can't, I think it all depends on the season. And, um, there's a lot of rooftop bars now that, yeah, I think there's a lot of rooftop bars all over the place now. That's like a big thing.

the, um, Waverly Inn is one of my favorite. I love it. It's just cozy. It just makes me feel like warm and cozy. You do really good, like hotels you're really good at. In New York, like to go and eat, it's always cozy.

Like, you know, you go to the Bowery, it's got... Is Waverly where the Kennedys were? Or is that the other hood? You know where they've got all the William Morris wallpaper? No, you're talking about the Carlislele the carlisle which had a secret tunnel that jfk would would visit meryl monroe underneath this there's a secret yeah so he really did have a relationship oh yeah yeah yeah and that's got where woody allen plays um with his band or used to right yeah and then bobby short who used to be an old um beautifully classically

trained pianist but you know would sing cole porter and he was there for years gloria vandiver to show up and sing with him and stuff it was you know one of those old new york things to do back great cocktails there yes yes and we went there do you remember there were elderly people who lived in the hotel well like elaine str Stritch. Yeah, Elaine Stritch. And then they come down with sunglasses on. And they were like 90. You'd wonder how they could even walk when they get their cocktail. I'll have the same as last night, you'd say.

I'd love to live in a hotel. So what's your favourite cuisine? You've been everywhere in the world i would have to say italy yeah uh you know in every region has like you know you had to go to rome and they've got their own uh pasta with their own specific sauce that melts in your mouth yeah then you go down to the amalfi coast and they've got the huge lemons that look like grapefruits, and everything is just succulent and fresh and right out of the sea. I did a cooking class in Norano, Italy. We were stationed, not stationed, but our home base was Sorrento, and then we'd do day trips.

And every night we'd go to Mario at this Twin Dolph dolphins restaurant at the top of the hill the catch was literally right out of the water you have a glass of cold wine that they pour you and you just watch them cook and then you eat yeah yeah so i would have to say italy is my favorite just because of the very can you cook pasta i mean i've never made it from scratch me neither no yeah i don't i'm not patient enough we've got a pasta maker. Oh yeah, and cranking it and the whole. I haven't attempted that yet. But do you make sauces? Which would be your favorite pasta sauce?

Probably a bolognese, but I use the Italian sausage, which I get from my local butcher. Oh, you put that in as well. Yeah. And lasagna is like, my kids die for the lasagna. What do you have? What's your special ingredient in your lasagna then? my my kids die for the lasagna which is what do you have what's your special ingredient in your lasagna then is it this uh fennel i use a lot of fennel yeah yeah yeah and that makes it really because the sausage has fennel in it as well

but i've never put sausage in my lasagna so yeah oh yeah lovely yeah you'll do like a a mix of the mints or will it be so what's your meat in there uh i'll do um ground beef um hot pork sausage hot spicy italian sausage and some veal depending on you know oh shit you go in yeah but i've got a great butcher it's all about your ingredients yeah you know and you yeah you go in what can I get you, Miss Williams? And then they make it and wrap it and it's fresh and it's not frozen and it just melts in your mouth. Mom, I'm really hungry. Should we eat? Sorry.

Yeah. Okay, so the fennel, would you do it within the sauce or would you kind of slice it in? No, in the sauce. And you can do fennel seeds so it stays in your sauce. Yeah, right. But I do No, in the sauce. And you can do fennel seeds, so it stays in your sauce. Yeah, right. But I do fresh basil in the sauce and fennel seeds. I'm going to try your lasagna.

It's good. It sounds fantastic. So you put fennel seeds, not whole fennel? No, fennel seeds. You'll do fennel seeds. And then fresh basil in the sauce, for sure. So what other dishes did your kids were, um, dishes? My kids, uh,

they like my carrot cake. I do a, I had a, a, a cookbook called breakfast at moose woods, which is down the village. Have you heard of moose woods? No.

And, um, they've got like, uh, recipes from all over the world, but there was a Finnish yogurt blueberry pie that i make all through the summer and i can throw it together in 20 minutes and it's is it like a kind of like a bread is it like one that you kind of no no it's it's a it's a pie so you make the you make this the the uh the the the

crust press it and put in the refrigerator short crust pastry okay fine sorry what he's driving me mad every time we do a podcast he tiptoes he's interested isn't he no sorry this is yeah this is he's hoping for another pouch of food so so you make the crust press it put in the refrigerator then you put everything in um in a in a bowl and you have your blueberries on the side and it's it's um it's two eggs it's uh sugar it's, it's, um, it's two eggs, it's a sugar, it's lemon, it's yogurt, um, and vanilla. And you stir it all together. You put the blueberries on the bottom, you pour the mixture on top and you throw it in

for 50 minutes. And I usually do two, yeah. And then I do two at a time. And then I sprinkle powdered sugar on top and they're great because you can bring them to barbecues. You bring them for a hostess gift or whatever. And it's, you know, you can buy one of the ceramic dishes and give it away and say here you take it and keep it it's a great summer do you do you host a lot in your house

like do you do you have like dinner parties or would it be it's it's more uh events i've done um two weddings uh america america ferrero who played betty i had a wedding at my house wow um another uh actress who i was in into the woods with on broadway had her wedding at my house in la uh at the time um you're really into your interiors or not it's like what is like what about you just why did america want to do her like, what is it like? What about you? Just why did America want to do her wedding at your, is it just the most exquisite place because she'd eaten at yours?

Yeah, I love cast parties. I have, I have like five acres. So I, the house is up on a hill. I have a pool, tennis court,

a big green lawn. And so I always say, bring your dogs and your kids. And so I have rides and candy machines. And I love just having, you know, I love just having blow up rides and stuff. So I had a cast party for Ugly Betty back in the day. And then when she got engaged, I said, you could always do it at my house.

And she's like, are you serious? I go, of course. And so she had it at my house. Was it lovely? It was beautiful. It was beautiful. Of course, it was supposed to be on the down low and she hired a lighting technician at the last moment I think it was lighting or sound

the last last moment he blabbed and all of a sudden as soon as she came out of the house helicopter came circling we were like what? I don't live in like a beverly hills type of house and nobody would have known and somebody somebody did it but it wasn't spoiled it was it was beautiful and stuff but um less dinner parties and more like picnics and you know and cast parties i like to do sounds great so will you be doing a cast party for city of angels well let's see apartment or

are you gonna have to like hire somewhere else there is a there is a place downstairs that's kind of a lounge so i can book the lounge for all of us yes yes yes yes lovely thank you oh delish so roast chicken now that's also my kids favorite when i do roast chicken all the time what do you do with yours is there any particular thing um i do so do you have herbs of provence here yes yes that's just my i i put that on proper sea salt uh ground fresh ground pepper and i've got truffle salt from a company in colorado i went skiing once and i live by put it on my popcorn and everything but trouble salt. Oh that's a good idea. Oh with butter. You guys don't do butter on your popcorn do you? I mean it was like

used to be my heaven to go to the cinema in America and you'd like get the bloody pouring. Honestly I'd feel sick after two mouthfuls but yeah we don't do that. Why? We do have buttery popcorn. You do saltier sweet. Yeah saltier sweet really is what we do. But no butter. But I do like the butter.

I mean, you can get it like, we used to get, what, the microwavable popcorn bags that would have like a bit of butter in it. Yeah. It's not like how you guys do butter. No, no, no. Please help yourself. I do. The chicken's really delicious, Mum.

Isn't it? I would tell. And I love putting fruit with poultry. Some people are funny about it, though. My turkey, I stuff it all with fruit for Thanksgiving. Yeah, so what do you stuff it with? So Thanksgiving, my Thanksgiving recipe, I got from my Brazilian waxing gal.

Oh, my God, I love this. And I was on my back one time getting waxed. Legs are kimbo, yeah. So what do you do with your turkey? So they do, she marinates it for five days before. Five days?

Five days. So that's what I started doing. In the fridge? Mm-hmm. Fresh turkey. A fridge wouldn't fit. A 20-pound turkey. She takes red onions,

butter, salt and pepper, and garlic, and she crushes them together and stuffs it under the skin. Let's it, let's it, um, marinate for five days. And then on the day on Thanksgiving day, I just do a butter and fresh oranges, crush them. So it's butter and oranges and salt and pepper. So it gives that gorgeous, uh, like orangey crispy skin. And it's always moist

because you've got all that garlic and onion and butter underneath the skin. Do you marinate yours for five days? Yeah, I started because of her. Not in brine or anything like that? No, no, no, just under the skin. Mmm. Thanks to Jeanne.

Jeanne, God bless you, Jeanne. We need a whole fridge outside. I thought you were going to say we need a whole wax. I was like... So, if you were going to do your last supper, I mean, it's a kind of contest. We either call it a last supper or... You're going on a desert island for six months starter main dessert and drink of choice so if i'm a desert island i probably want gazpacho really well made i've

never had good gazpacho i don't understand it really literally i look at it i'm like get away from me so i've obviously not had it good. Yeah, yeah. With fresh cilantro and a little bit of bite. You like Bloody Marys. But then I like Bloody Marys, so I should like gazpacho. But it should be like fresh and like, you know, when you have fresh salsa and it's just, it's good. Have you had one wonderful gazpacho? Mexico. Oh, okay.

I'm going to make it in Mexico. Yeah, yeah. It's Mexican. Spanishy Mexican. so yeah yeah i'm gonna make it in mexico yeah yeah it's mexican so desert i would do gazpacho and i would have some grilled fish probably i had the best snapper in costa rica it was grilled and crispy but there was like a creamy i don't know what it was either coconut or lemon or something it was we went back three days in a row and it was like a thing on the side of the road but all the locals went there it was so good with with what did they serve it with rice rice but like really good seasoned it wasn't yellow rice but it was you know garlic it was just delicious uh so it had a good good crispy snapper yeah a Rugal has got to be in there, surely. Not for my last meal.

Okay, fine. Drink-wise? Maybe some kind of a mule. I mean, they do the Moscow mule, but they can mix it up. But the ginger beer I like because it definitely, it's got that little kick.

But yeah, a little fire. And then dessert. See, I like really good lemony stuff, but I also like good chocolatey stuff. I love crispy. It's tough. Pecan pie is fantastic. I love pecan pie. Whipped cream and, oh, it might be a whipped pecan pie.

I understand that. I understand that. We don't have pecan pie here. Really? Well, I mean, like, we know of it we have it it's not like you'd have it in a restaurant unless it's like thanksgiving week it's a hard rock cafe yeah but it's like that's an american like you know yeah definitely down south for sure i love it what's like your kind of greatest comfort food what's something that you will just... Good pizza.

Yeah. Growing up, our comfort food. New York's good pizza. Yeah, exactly. And I think Italian is the comfort food. Italian and submarines are, you know, or we call them wedges. But they're like the big, there's hoagies, there's subs. But the big heroes is another name for them.

But a good pizza is... What's your it'll be spice no you like spice sausage sausage sometimes they have now they have this great one with arugula and prosciutto which is like light enough yum that's that's my favorite right now i don't think you eat a lot of pizza i do i do yeah pizza and wine that's that's my favorite right now i don't think you eat a lot of pizza i do i do yeah pizza and wine that's that's a good your vice yes do you think you've got good table manners i do my mother growing up you know she's 80 so they had had to take etiquette class so you know learning how to learning how to set a proper table where the knives and forks go and everything and then this is the b and the d bread and the d bread and drink bread drink okay so bread is in your left hand yeah so your bread is drink so your bread is

always here your drink is always here so just do that and holding your knife and fork properly but it depends on where your country yes because my husband goes like this and then it's like five different steps like just eat yeah it's he'll he'll go no you eat really properly and then swap and then kind of like it all up then yes put. Put this down. That's what my husband does. Is he from the States? No, he's from Streatham. Did I hear that? But we also heard, because we have Kiefer Sutherland on.

Okay. And he told us that you would eat your food as soon as it's put in front of you. It's actually ruder to wait because it's like, why deny yourself like a nice hot meal when... No, we wait. I mean... Of course we wait. And we'll say, go ahead, please go ahead. And then you can start. But the other thing is we find difficult when we're in the States, people move your, take

your plate away. I mean, Alice has done that for us today. But normally we would sit and wait till everyone's finished every mouthful and then remove the plates so but you think it's quite rude if the waiter leaves it dirty food dirty plate not if i'm having so my first husband would do that all the time we'd have a dinner party or a big family thing and he'd be conversation is so much part of having a great dinner party or or a holiday and he would immediately if everyone stopped he would go and start scraping it and stacking them up like can we just enjoy the moment for a second yeah yeah so my kids get crazy about that so is he father

to any of your children so my first husband i had three with. Oh, wow. My second one I had one with. Yeah. And then this last one is... You're not going to do... Not going there. I met him when I was 49. Okay. Yeah. How did you meet? I met him on a cruise on the Nile in Egypt.

I took Sasha... Well, that's quite romantic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was 12. She had just studied Egypt and Greece. We had gone to Greece the year before because I'm on the Special Olympics board and I was part of the ceremony in Athens and stuff. So I said, I'm going to take you to Greece the year before because I'm on the Special Olympics board, and I was part of the ceremony in Athens and stuff. So I said, I'm going to take you to Egypt this year.

And so we did the pyramids and did a whole bunch of stuff. Then we jumped on the cruise, and I had the same Egyptologist tour guide every time I go, and Azza set next to Jim on our flight to Abu Simbel. And we got off, and she's like, I sat next to this guy. He's really nice. You should go talk to him. I was like, okay. And he had a t-shirt on that was Buffalo Sabres.

And my mom's from Buffalo, New York. So I said, are you from Buffalo? And he said, yeah. I said, oh, my brother's a Buffalo Bills fan. My mom's from Buffalo. And that's how we started chatting. And then Aza said, it's nice. And Aza says, invite him out to dinner.

I said, Azza, it's my last night. I've got plans, you know. And so I invited him out to dinner to my hotel and we had like a lovely dinner. And then I said, I'm going home. You know, he was going to Kenya on a safari. I told him where to go and all that stuff. And I said, call me when you get back.

And so it was kind of a slow progression, but you know. So thank God for your Egyptologist. Azza Amar yeah as a amar i love it do you think i should go on that you need to get yourself an egyptologist bloody hell that's very romantic better than tinder an egyptologist you're not on tinder no but it'd be nicer thing to to say. Yeah, that's very romantic. I'm not on Tinder. No, just to clarify for everybody. Go on a nice cruise. Cruises are good.

Are they? Yeah. I've never really been that up for it. Aren't there a lot of old people there? Depends on when you go. Depends what I'm worried about. Are you ready to have a bit of something sweet? Sure, absolutely.

Like a little taste. It's a chocolate thing. Mum made it. It's a recipe that mum hasn't tried before. No, it's chocolate prunes and chestnuts and almonds. So who knows? Sounds very holiday. No flour.

Okay. That looks very mean. That's delicious. It almost looks like a Linzer torte. Yeah, maybe. I don't know what it's like. So this is prune. It's got prunes.

Yummy. Chestnuts and almonds in. Yum. And a shed load of butter. Yum, yum, yum. It's good. I mean, I'm having like a liter of cream with it. You'd only want a kind of tiny bit, wouldn't you?

No, this is perfect. And I love nuts, so this is my jam. So do you get to sing a lot in this show? So I play, if you've seen Double Indemnity, which is a film noir with Barbara Stanwyck and Fred McMurray, I play the, her name is Allura. She's very alluring. She's kind of like the doctor death of the show. She's always, she's like the killer nurse. You never know what she's

up to, but you know that it's going to be bad. So it's, uh, it's powerful. It's devious. It's, um, alluring. And I have one song called the tennis song which i'm um seducing theo oh you pull i know i know and he's a detective that i hired to find my stepdaughter and this is uh he finds me having my legs oiled by my stepson oh my god on the tennis court who I dismiss and turn Theo's character on. So there's one called The Tennis Song. So I sing In-N-Out, but the music is fantastic. Cy Coleman, who wrote it, wrote the music. And Larry Gelbart wrote the book, who wrote MASH.

And it's a huge hoot. So it's very witty and very of its era. And David Zippel wrote the lyrics and it's just visually it's so hard to do when you see it you'll understand like how do you do black and white on a color stage and you know so josie has done a brilliant job and set design is just yeah making it work so it's clear so i'm I'm really excited to do it. It hasn't been done again on Broadway since 89. It's only been done once. It's only been done once here. Do you think potentially it could move to Broadway?

Possibly. I want to know more about the six-page spread and the gay times. And the fact that you're a gay icon, really, aren't you? You know? And when did you find this out? And how was it made clear? I know how she feels.

I probably started feeling it more after I did A Diva's Christmas Carol, which is a take on Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol and I did the diva version

and that ran on VH1 back in the day. It was like 2001. so it's been a while and uh it was strong was funny it was over the top and i was imitating a kind of a mixture of a lot of stories that i heard of people that were divas in the business whom i'm sure you know of and um icon status is when people start dressing like you and that was certainly wilhelmina i got into but when first season of of ugly betty uh halloween when they started dressing like wilhelmina then i was like okay i've i've made it but also there's a struggle

you know being a minority and being basically an outsider, whether you're a woman or whether you're a woman of color or whether you're gay, you know what it's like to be on the outside. And I think that gay men identify with fighters who have fought the fight. And I think that's another reason why I have a gay following, not only being talented and being glamorous and being portrayed as sassy and, you know, bawdy, but being a fighter and also standing up for causes.

Now, I mean, this is on a very separate note, but karaoke song. We've been asking everyone in this series. I don't like doing karaoke because i don't know i feel kind of uncomfortable doing it but i feel like maybe you like it is that is that a um i don't know i feel like i do they have bars here karaoke bars oh yeah okay but like what's your go-to my go-to song is steve miller joker i'm a joker i'm a smoker i'm a midnight toker harmonies let's go yes yeah okay i just said for some reason

it's true i it just reminds me of again childhood childhood and it's a great groove it is a good it's a tune actually that's a really good one what's your karaoke song walk on by no that's your funeral song that's my funeral song um this sex is on fire oh my god what's wrong with that i love that song yeah but it's so wild this is on fire well it's so wild. This sex is on fire. Well, it's actually not called This Sex is on Fire. What is it? I think it's Sex on Fire.

Okay. But it's a good song. Can't wait to hear you do that. Okay. Vanessa, thank you so much for coming here. You guys have been fantastic. No, but I know it's quite odd to be asked to South London by two women that you've never met. I know.

And to eat their food. When I saw the Mizzou's on the outside, I go, okay, I'm in good company. You see? Yeah, I see. But no, it's been such a pleasure. And I wish you the best of luck with City of Angels. And it sounds really brilliant. Thank you.

I'm excited. I mean, I'll be coming for you, but I'll also be coming for that cute... What's his face? Theo James. What is it? Theo? Theo James. I can't believe he's English.

I don't even know who he is. I mean, I watched the whole of Divergent just for him. Handsome. Yeah. And like, yeah, it sounds really brilliant. So I can't wait. Yeah. And it's nice to be in a different...

I've done broadway this is a whole new space for me so the people first time in west end yeah first time yeah maybe not the last they'll have you back now they'll have you in the first whoa he's gorgeous hello yeah god we are like basically me too every night are you like do it again do it again i don't think we got that right Mum, that was lovely Was it? Food was grand Why are you saying it in a surprised way?

It almost felt like it was made with love Well, actually I didn't feel very stressed by it today I know, It was a really straightforward meal that looked like you'd made an effort. It tasted nice. Yeah, that was a very effortless meal. Yeah. I was up and down a little bit, if you noticed. Yep. Okay. Sorry. Well done. Points to mum. I went and got the chicken and the ingredients. Did you get the chicken? Yes, I did. Chicken supreme, mum. I know that's the best.

You cooked it right because it was succulent. I know. I cooked it for 35 minutes and I looked and I thought. So we're all going to get salmonella tomorrow. No, it's not. It was done, wasn't it? You couldn't have cooked that anymore. It would have been horrible.

It was really good. I'm learning. So, and that uh rachel roddy tart was delicious she's great sorry i'm really tired i went out last night didn't i yeah so can we talk about vanessa let's talk about vanessa she was astonishingly beautiful i mean i know i say people are gorgeous all the time but she was kind of perfection yes she was she was just gorgeous made me think I need to get a Jesse did she have blue eyes so I don't have my greeny blue yeah they're beautiful they were amazing eyes and she was just

she was someone that was just so comfortable within her skin. She knew exactly who she was. She knew all her strengths. She just, and loved life, real zest for life, and loved music and musical theatre. Yeah, she taught me a thing or two. I didn't know hardly any of the bloody references. Yeah, but it's America, darling. But I loved it when we said goodbye,

and I was like, you know you know really though how how was it touring with children she was like it was great i was like yeah but the guilt and she was like don't feel guilty don't feel guilty i never felt guilty and i was like okay so now i'm not going to feel guilty and i'm going to try that way that she does turkey the bikini well you're going to need a bikini waxer you're going to need a big fridge darling to keep a turkey for five days i'm going to have a fridge in my basement i'm going to be like a pro chef that has two fridges all right good that's what i'm going to do um i really enjoyed her company it was such a pleasure to have her like a real star there was it felt star quality in here, in the room tonight.

But thank you for listening. Thank you, Vanessa Williams, for coming over here. Go and see her show. Yeah, it sounds great. Sounds fab. And Mum. What, darling? I'm going to watch Love Island.

Oh, you're going to watch Love Island? You're going to watch Cold Feet. We're going to have some time out. Piss off, Prince. He's such an attention... You can hear him all the time. Poor fucking cat. It's like Harry Potter should live under the bloody stairs.

He's seen Rocky, Russell Tovey's Rocky, taken a leaf out of that book and now tiptoes all the time. The poor cat gets no attention, Mum. No love. The cat gets loads of attention. He sits by me every night and I stroke him. Who strokes me? And he gets a gourmet pearl, not Kit Kat for him.

Okay, well, if anybody's out there that would like to come and stroke my mother, then please do email us at hello at tablemannerspod podcast.com