Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S9 Ep 6: Zawe Ashton

Episode Date: March 11, 2020

We welcomed the beautiful and brilliant Zawe Ashton to ours last Friday with an unexpected guest, Fresh Meat co-star Charlotte Richie (who Jessie used to babysit back in the day!).The author and actress devoured mums sticky short ribs (even kindly put them on her last supper meal!), spoke all about being a child actor, being bullied, The Handmaids Tale and her new book Character Breakdown. We chatted about the go to places to eat after you've stepped off stage on Broadway, how savoury porridge saved her life, the thrills of cheap red wine and being a devotee of Terry's Chocolate Orange. She shares with us her mum's Ugandan cooking, what was in her lunchbox and Lennie’s love of Margaret Atwood. This has SO MUCH GOOD STUFF IN IT! Enjoy and thank you Zawe for being so wonderful x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Taper Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my mum. Hi mum. Hi Jessie. How are you? Little tired. It's been a very, very busy week. Exciting week. Very exciting. You were on fire last night, Mother Doris. Was I? Yeah, we had our Q&A at Waterstones. It was the day the book launched book launched and oh by the way did you know we had a cookbook

that's out yes it's out now please go get it so we went and did a Q&A at Waterstones in front of an audience well obviously because it was a Q&A but we have a very attractive very young audience yes and very sweet

very endearing I wanted to put my arms around more than one of them. I know, it was really, it was such a pleasure to meet some of you and just, yeah, a real delight for us. But mum, I have to say, you were amazing. Even though I was on the small seat. Oh my God, it was so funny. Can I just say something?

When I looked in when we first got there, there were three armchairs. When I went back, there was three highchairs when I went back there was three high chairs well you know why they do the high chairs it's so everyone can see you I know but darling you even you've struggled you had to stand up it was just really funny because obviously mum can't really do a big uh a high stool it's not comfortable no so unless you're drinking cosmos and you're leaning on a bath. Yeah, we needed the bar. But anyway, so you were in this kind of very low chair and I was very... I got a crick in my neck looking up at you. Anyway, you were brilliant and you seemed very at ease being an author, a published author.

Published author. And we are actually going to put this episode out on Friday. So if you couldn't make it, you can enjoy the special Q&A coming to you on Friday. I don't know what kind of sick, cruel joke this is, but I got tonsillitis this week on the week that we are promoting a cookbook. So it has been impossible to eat this week. I have eaten.

You have managed, darling. But it feels like vinegar is is it still pouring down open wounds down my throat at least it's not coronavirus darling well yeah well you were all worried weren't you on monday and tuesday no one was going near you if we weren't letting the children go honestly i was self-isolating and hoping for a miracle. And then I got pus on my tonsils. Jessica! We were all happy about that. And now I'm on antibiotics.

But anyway, yeah, it was touch and go. But we're here now and we're doing a podcast. Yeah. And we've got the wonderful Zowie Ashton. Can't wait to meet her. She's right up your street, mum. She is. She's a thespian. She's a thespian. An author. She's right up your street, Mum. She is. She's a thespian.

She's a thespian. She's clever. She's funny. She's beautiful. Beautiful and multi-talented. Multi, multi, multi-talented. So, Zowie is promoting a new book. Do you know what?

I like the podcast on Friday night. Oh yeah, I know you do because you think it's end of school week and you can have a little bevy yeah yeah I see you're revved up yeah I'm revved up what are we having tonight well we're going to have some champagne to celebrate to celebrate and on the side some uh food so we're going to have some champagne first to celebrate our book being published. Yeah, we've been celebrating I think for like two weeks.

We'll celebrate again and then we're going to have short ribs, sticky short ribs. You've made a delicious roasted garlic potato mash. The other thing that I've made is the griddled peaches from the cookbook

with um they're nectarines you got nice yeah i couldn't get peaches i think it works nicely yeah so i got nectarines i hope they work i i haven't it's your it's yours and it's your recipe and i've not cooked it before so i did you do it with rosemary? No. Oh, well then it's not my recipe. But I just did it with sugar, the brown sugar. Lovely. And then I'm going to serve it with mascarpone and some cantucci biscuits. And are you going to do the orange blossom or not with that? I don't know.

I think it might be one step beyond. Yeah, maybe you're right. Zowie Ashton, coming up on Table Moon. Can we say cheers? Cheers. To Zowie. To Zowie.

To finally getting on your podcast. Oh my God, it's only been two and a half years. Love you two. To Charlotte, who's here. Can I just acknowledge what just happened? Firstly, we thought Zara was going to be a no-show. We thought she was our first no-show and we thought, shit. She's big time and she's not answering the phone. And the car was cancelled.

We were like, shit. No, it's fine. You're here. You were like on time. And you turned up with, she's not little anymore. A little girl I used to babysit who lives down the road who's a huge actress called Charlotte Ritchie. You were both in Fresh Meat together.

I feel like I'm doing this as your life for you. It's pretty amazing. But it's so funny. So Charlotte and I, and us, mum and I, have lived on the same road as Charlotte and I used to babysit Charlotte and Charlotte was in Fresh Meat with Zari and also call the midwife and ghosts. Ghosts? Yeah ghosts. Anyway so they just both arrived at the door together and it was a lovely lovely surprise. Sometimes we like to go places together just to get some of that local fresh meat really revved up again Charlotte's going to show you the finest

Clapham has to offer but thanks for coming and then I love that you're going off to see Buffy who's one of the best people in the world yeah that's my mum shout out to my mum but Zoe thank you so much for doing this it's my absolute pleasure

we've like bumped into each other at events we seem to be invited to the same things which makes me always feel good when I see you there I'm like oh there are some people that you just see and go thank goodness I'm just gonna gravitate that way away from all the weird people I seem to have fallen in with it's really funny because I feel like event events really started when we started doing fresh meat I think I mean you'd go to stuff you know if you were invited with a friend or press nights obviously I've done a lot of theatre in my life and but it was when we started doing fresh meat and suddenly you would get these invites to

things where you'd go either on your own or as a group and you'd know that you would get there and not know anyone it's that moment when your head is suddenly above above the parapet and you're making it up as you go along i mean literally do you remember we go to things and be like okay so what do we do yeah we feel like competition winners do we drink yeah that's what we always used to say whenever we used to be in a photograph with someone genuinely famous we looked like people who'd won a competition students who'd won a competition oh Students who'd won a competition. Oh mate, I know that feeling so much. Except for the time that me and Kim wore matching dresses

and mine matched my hair and you looked like a supermodel. Then we really looked like... I liked you really at that time, you're right. Did they beckon you? We totally did, yeah. So when you did Fresh Meat, did you know each other beforehand? No. No, we didn't.

So it was like the beginning of term. Yeah. You had to meet the new one. I loved it so much. Yeah. We did. I laughed and laughed and laughed. It was so great.

It was so good. Oh, it was so good. Maybe like the Friends reunion, they should do a fresh meat reunion. It'd be amazing. It would be so good. I'd be there. If it means free Botox. Yeah.

If they need to make us look. 21, okay. Yeah. I would do. if they need to make us look 21 okay yeah I was just telling Charlotte I moved house yesterday so if I sound a bit like a woman on a verge of the nervous breakdown um how was the move it was it was really stressful I moved from London to Margate I had a moment in 2017 and I actually quit acting and I was like I'm And I was like, I'm done. I need to reconnect with nature. I need to just not be in the rat race and the whole thing. And, you know, I've been there for a really long, brilliant period of time.

But yes, it was not working for whatever reason. So I moved yesterday and I found a card from Charlotte. Oh, yeah. After the first series going like I can't believe like this is an incredible way to do my first job and what an incredible friendship we've made

she's always been a good girl come on I just thought of someone who sends cards I can always see a friendship remaining very strong it was a strong

it is a strong so you've moved back from Margate to London yes I know a lot of people that have done the same they go and they're like that's me I same. They go and they're like, that's me.

I need the seat. And then they're like, hi guys. I kind of miss the city. How many times can you go to Dreamland? You're so right. So how are you feeling about being back in the schmuck? There is a little, to be honest, there's a little bit of, what's the word you you do feel

a bit embarrassed oh i'm not embarrassed no no not at all it's a bit it's a bit like rewinding on a huge decision you know whenever you try something and it doesn't quite work it's absolutely fine but there is the process to get back to the place that you were before do you feel like it's helped you been there amazing so then it wasn't then it did work when it worked you're absolutely right uh look you're talking it was just a stage in your life that you lived in margate and now you're back in london i i i have to really become acquainted with the overachiever that lives within me which means that everything that you put your hand to just has to be, like, well-rounded, successful. You know, oh, wow, you did that to its absolute nth and the zenith.

And actually, sometimes you're right. It's for a period. Did you go to university? Yeah. So did you go away from home for university? I did, but it was drama school, yeah Manchester weirdly enough during the show was almost like yeah real life second student dim in some ways for me so you grew up in Stokey yeah am I right yeah and you which school did you go to primary school I went to William Patton on Church Street and then I moved so I moved schools twice I went from there

to a school in Islington and then I went to school back in the Angel and then went to school in Highgate so I basically

I've just moved all over London without any of the good transport that we now have but like you but Stokey back in the day

like I mean transport for Stokey is it's non-existent. It's shit. Yeah. That's why everyone's just really pleased to have their, like, local coffee shop.

Yeah. Because you can't get anywhere else. They're all a bit smug now because they've created a world that they can just stay put in. Well, we've always been a village. And to see that grow through gentrification... How do you feel?

...and, like, squats and, you know, amazing Indian food and laundrettes and green green grocers and key cutting shops that was my stoke newington to see an incredible independent turkish restaurant and turkish restaurants and you know independent business there is actually i didn't realize this stoke newington had signed something i'm being really vague but we had agreed as a borough or as a community not to have any commercial uh premises on stoke newington church street specifically and there was actually laws in place they're not there anymore they're not there anymore no because we've got nando's i wasn't gonna say it i mean i like nando's

but but yeah yeah um i got in um i got in a cab a while ago and and um i said oh i'm going to stoke newton i can't remember it was covent garden or something some audition whatever going to see mom and dad and i said i'm going to stoke newton he went oh the front line we used to call that the front line because cabs would not go past a certain point to Stoke Newington and now people can't believe that when they know the Stokey that they know now which is I mean you know it's becoming a parody of itself I still love it usually it is very gentrified and that's great you know on one level great on another level when you have had that place be so much part of your formative um cognitive development it's hysterical when people think that that was your cognitive development it was actually much

more the front line side um but you know i'm proud to be from Hackney very proud as everyone so so what were some of your like early eating memories in Hackney like the Stokey that you knew you know where were the spots that like maybe still exist that you would go to although do they not exist anymore well I grew up on a road that was when I think about it now you know the coronavirus and everything that was going on we had neighbors that would just bring food around I would lived on a street that was a food swapping street which was amazing and actually our neighbor across the road still brings over brings over a curry every now and again and it's like um so we had our neighbor over the road who always would bring incredible curries over we had my

other neighbor across the way who was west indian and would bring over some of the most incredible cakes that you've ever seen you know i think i probably have been eating rum cake since i was okay it was really illegal um but they always had these really like neon ice icings that she would make neon oh wow um and they always looked like you know characters from some kind of cartoon and I was really obsessed with them and they tasted great and then I was like guys anyone up for clubbing I don't know about you so I've been pouring the rum in with a knitting, digging a knitting needle in and then pouring the rub slowly. Infused. And that's what you could taste in the food,

that there was love and care. I think that's something that you can taste instinctively as a child when you've had something that's made with that level of attention. What were your family offering up on the street? Are they big foodies? Huge food. um what were your family offering up on the street my mom is uganda huge food i mean in terms of my mom she's someone who has used food in the most incredible way which i'll expand on maybe in a sec but when i was young we used to have a lot of ugandan food which is brilliant that's where my mom's from what's that that's a lot of ganja, which is plantain,

you know, for, I don't know, the more widely known version, you know, the green banana that's fried up and it's delicious. A lot of peanut sauce actually is a huge feature of Ugandan cooking. We had that in Gambia a lot. Gambia, they did peanut sauce, yeah.

People, I think sometimes there's a generalisation about African food, you know sometimes there's a generalization about african food you know it's a continent guys but but it's like super spicy but actually ugandan food is quite subtle um so there's a lot of peanut flavors uh what spices are quite um we have a lot of kind of real yam-based dishes. There's a dish called matoke, which is like a yam steamed in its own leaves, which I'm not a huge fan of. I usually force-fed it.

Which, again, is quite beautifully bland, but when you start dipping it in sauces... But do they make what... Well, the Nigerians call it soup. Yeah. But would you call it soup or a curry or a sauce you don't have a sauce yeah sauce tilapia is a big deal is that the fish that's the fish of I would say is that your your native fish then well we're quite landlocked there so there is quite a lot of fish that I'm not sure about we've got late victoria which is you know fresh fish abundant yeah but if someone said oh do you want to try this octopus i'd be like i don't know about that because i'm not sure that's coming

from anywhere local to here but tilapia is a really beautiful fish which is my favorite if it was a celebration yeah like a wedding or a birth or a birthday what would be the kind of things that they'd have you'd have ganja you'd have peanut sauce you'd have rice you'd have motoke you'd have beans you'd have a lot of uh sauces as you say tilapia yeah it's a very carby it's great is it yeah what was your favorite what was your favourite? What was your favourite? Of course. It's important to have a good bum. It's very good.

But it's only Ugandan food that does that for me. It's really kind of drops straight down. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very specific, complex carb, I think, that just drops to the... Straight to your bottom. Yeah. So your mum's Ugandan?

Yes. And where's your dad from? And my dad is of Cornish descent. Oh Straight to your bottom. Yeah. So your mum's Ugandan? Yes. And where's your dad from? And my dad is of Cornish descent. Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah, but grew up in Pimlico and... Is that where your name's from? A very London boy.

Yeah, he's an Ashton. I don't know if our name is actually Cornish. I think it goes further back than that. I think there's always been some French, some Polish, some Jewish conversations that have happened around the kitchen table with my granddad. I know. It's so, why I think your podcast is so great is because you're absolutely right that the way that you experience food before you have the vocabulary to say like, I feel like this,

or I feel like my identity might be made up of this and this. You go to school and you share packed lunches or you talk about what you had for dinner the previous night. And actually it's this really pure and innocent way of quietly celebrating everyone's culture. It's brilliant. It's really funny because I'm doing packed lunches for my daughter now. It's a big thing. What are you doing? the pressure well you know what i think it's saying

what was in the i want to know what the kids have got because i i want to know whether i'm being too healthy or not healthy enough and it's not a competition but i just want to know that like maybe like i can give her a few magic stars if she needs them you know um yeah everyone needs a magic star but like um yeah I just um it's um we've all got corona I called the helpline today actually I'm not kidding I called the helpline thanks for being here Charlotte I said I don't have any of the symptoms except for a bit of a cough and he was like you need to calm down

and I was like okay I was told I was being irresponsible not to find out yeah but Alex has got a cough and we're a bit worried about him my mum was really offended when I said I need to be careful because you're a person at risk and she was like I'm only 72 and I was like sorry

she's had bad chest as well. Well, yeah, she gets laryngitis, but she still keeps talking, so you can't tell it's actually painful to her. I'm just thinking, are you hungry? I'm hungry, yeah. I'm going to put some cabbage on. I'm going to sneak out.

Are you sure? Why? Because my mum and dad, I'm going to pop in to see them and say hi and have some dinner so and i also this i gotta leave you to do your thing so i'm gonna go thanks for having me thanks she's only like five doors down bless her so love to buffy i will do i'll see you later bye sammy you missed may have just added a question that I can ask people.

I know. What did you have in your packed lunch? Yeah, what did you used to have in your packed lunch? Okay, so this is a huge question for me. Okay. Packed lunches were extremely important to me and my mum. I feel like the packed lunch box was also quite a big deal. You had to get one every, it was like a new like Hermes bag each season it was like each term not term but like you

know start of the year you needed a new can I tell you you've actually hit upon something there Jess I definitely go for bags that are the shape of my Pat lunchbox uh free therapy guys just saying with champagne so I had the biggest pat lunchbox known to man it was what a lumberjack would be sent to the woods with do you remember when those munch it was like munch box i think okay came out and they literally were the pat lunchbox favored by kind of you know park um park rangers builders but it was what was your sandwich so i had cheese and pickle love cheese and pickle obsessed i'm trying to get my daughter into it but my mom thinks she's too young three and a half it's definitely an acquired taste was it my favorite

when i first tasted it probably not did you used to grate the um cheese was grated pickle was remember when the mini pickle came out? The chunky? Oh, yeah. And then the mini came out. The mini makes a lot of sense for children. Revolutionized lunchbox for me. Brown or white?

It was always brown. My mum has always been very health conscious that way. Mini rolls played a big part of my lunchbox. Mini rolls, yeah. Huge. It varied. The Marks andencer's ones used to have chocolate chocolate creamy stuff in the middle and then there was the um the white the white the yeah the regular kind with the white poofy stuff um what else the little yazoo's oh shit no you didn't

have that you're too old no we did have yazoo's they were the shit, yeah. No, you didn't have that. You were too old. No, we did have Yazoo's. They were the strawberry milk, no? Yeah. Yeah. Strawberry chocolate milk. Did I send that with you too? Oh, yeah. Don't sound...

Yeah, we had it a few times. No, I can't remember them. I remember because I was always on a bloody diet. But Jessie, I always know. I had like cottage cheese with Marmite. I mean, I love cottage cheese and Marmite, but I remember at Malty Bay Summer Camp, I was having cottage cheese and Marmite,

but it was probably because I liked it. I didn't give you cottage cheese, darling. I definitely had it as a sandwich. Jessie, if you ate cottage cheese, you wouldn't have been wearing what you were wearing. But it was yours quite... It wasn't too healthy. It was a bit of a mix.

It was definitely a mix. I feel there was a lot always a lot of fruit so there were definitely tangerines apples I feel like my mum felt like more was best okay so she never wanted me to look as though I was like wanting yeah for lunch um so like instead of one tangerine it would be like the tangerine net just like stuffed in the top of the lunchbox and instead of just like one yazoo maybe it'd be the pack of three that you would get from the shop so I really appreciate that your lunchbox always did you share yours fuck no well I used to share because I think I used to find other people's food very attractive

so it was transactional I would love to say it was selfless and I just gave without wanting yeah but I appreciate my mum so much the things that mums go through yeah I now realize were huge even from something that feels small like a packed. Like, my mum would give me more because she didn't want me to look... Like the poor person. Well, I don't know. For us? No, for us. For Jewish people.

What? No, I'm telling you, Jessie, you would give more because you didn't want to look like you weren't doing well. I'm telling you. Is that why I was really fat-packed? When I was a child, then, yeah. You really fat you're also wearing all your jewelry that was like you're doing well i'm telling you that i wear everything i've got and never put anything away more is more more is more it was the more is more approach and and i think it was also about wanting to feel like a really good

month you know what I mean? At lunchtime, if I felt like I was missing something, she just didn't want me to feel like that. And the psychology of food is something you realise much later on in life. But I'm really glad that I had a really good start in that way. Are you an only child? No, very much not. How many? I'm the oldest and my brother and sister are six years younger than me they're a year apart oh really I've actually

met your sister she used to go out with um Maxie Poo we talked about this at the Serpentine they're both amazing I mean to to be an older sibling when there is a gap like that it's quite special because you do weirdly have a mothering instinct when they're born it's so weird like when my brother was first born I would not let my mum say it was her child if we were out and about I'd be like um sorry can we just just remember this is my job. I'm going to push the pram. But it was that brilliant inner fight between I love this new

edition and also at the same time I wish they would just go away. I wish they would go away. Mum! Die! Come on. Well saying that Lenny, I used to pretend my brother was mine and then by the same extreme I would hide him under duvets and be like, sorry, guys. Guess he took off.

It's just us again. Isn't this great? Should we go to the park? And they'd be like, where is the child? Amazing. I'd be like, he just went. I don't know. He just wasn't feeling it.

I'm hungry. You hungry? Yes, I'm very hungry. Can I just serve you? Please. It's sticky short ribs. Amazing! Oh my god amazing! Yeah? Yeah. Wait. I've been all over the ribs. I've finished a play in New York last year and I would I would say that ribs and steak were pretty much the Which play was that? So I did a play last year called Betrayal, which started in London. I've just got to come in here. Because I said to Jessie, I think you're too young to have played in Betrayal. Oh, bless you. No, because it's about a big

affair and a three, a triangular. Is that Harold Pinter? It's always been played by much older people. Yes, you see, Jessie jesse but in the script at the end of the play which is actually the beginning of the play because it's told in reverse chronological order my character is 38 and i'm nearly 36 you're not yeah oh my god yes betrayal because it was jamie jamie lloyd who is like the person that like runs the pinter or was doing that season huge pinter season that had you yeah come on i mean it had everybody martin freeman russell tovey hayley squires um danny diet like everybody everybody it was a really exciting it was a really exciting season because maybe i'm biased i just love harold pinter so much but it was a load of his one-act plays that not many people had seen and jamie's thing is he revives classics and makes

them feel really fresh and so it just felt like there was this incredible new blood coming through. This looks unreal! It's steaming, it's bubbling, it's just smelling all kinds of incredible. Thank you Lenny. Do you know what this really feels like? It feels like going to your friend's house after school thanks jess's mom so great i'm so hungry this is so the this is literally what i ate every night on broadway really how did i get through it i was just full of ribs wanted to go to sleep of steak but would you eat after yeah so where would you Oh, that's what made me feel like I was on Broadway. There's an incredible bar

called Bar Centrale where everyone who's on Broadway goes because there's actually not that many places to go, good places. You're in Midtown, you're in Times Square,

you know, it's kind of tourist central. So Bar Centrale was amazing and so like a cheers, like everybody knows your name everyone knows where you want to sit what you want to eat i was like i've made it baby amazing oh susan sarandon hi how you doing oh cindy crawford how's it yeah you good yeah this is my table this is just like my mum this is just like my mum i love it honestly i'm really Zari, that I've offended you with a different glass that my mum didn't give you. It's going to taste the same.

It makes me feel like I'm at home. Okay, good. Thank you. It wouldn't be the same without my mum sort of trailing me, removing all of the things I put on the table. Oh, okay. Good. Fine. Great.

So it's not just my mum. No. Perfect. These are the best ribs I've ever tasted. Honestly. You're saying that. I'm not. Thank are the best ribs I've ever tasted. Honestly. You're saying that. I'm not. Thank you.

Honestly, you'd be able to tell. It's a bit oily but... I can't lie. I actually bumped into Vanessa Redgrave recently. Come on. You did. I might hurt my foot

dropping the names. Oh, I love her. But I bumped into her at a lunch. I know Jodie Richardson a little bit. And I saw her and I was like,

Jodie, oh my God, how are you? This event. It's happening really well. And then suddenly her mum, Vanessa Redgrave, is behind her. And I was like Jolie oh my god how are you this event it's happened really well and then suddenly her mum Vanessa Redgrave is behind her and I was like oh my god oh my god oh my god what do I say by this point I knew that we were going to Broadway with the show and I hadn't seen the play that she was in oh god why is the name escaping me because I'm one day away from my menstrual cycle, that's why. Is that what happens?

I just can't remember anything. Oh, my God. It's literally one of my favourite plays of all time. I'm blanking. OK. Anyway, her mother was in... And her mum was in it. Yeah. The Inheritance.

The Inheritance! So Vanessa's been in The Inheritance. It's been this huge hit. I haven't managed to see it in London for whatever reason. I've sort of been out of town. And so I think think what are you going to say to Vanessa Redgrave what are you going to say social anxiety kicks in and I go Vanessa I mean nice to meet you but I've got to say the inheritance wow she just took a beat and

then she looked at me and went you didn't see it darling and I went yes I did what are you talking about no I can't do it she was like darling no you didn't she went you can't lie at all you must never ever lie your face is too open you can't lie oh my god and I had to in that moment make the decision I decided to be honest and truthful with Vanessa Redgrave when faced with her eyes, the like two pools of pure water. And I just said, you're right. I didn't see it. I lied.

I lied. Oh my God. I didn't know what to say. And why I said it is because I'm going to Broadway and I will be able to see you in it because you're also transferring to Broadway. So I spoke. So you kind of, you,

I spoke, I spoke in a future tense and I shouldn't have that was a bit mean of her though she said it with the most she could have just fucking called you out she said it with the most open smile

and I thought I'm actually really grateful for this moment because I lie all the time do you about having seen things that I haven't but is that a pressure

because it's a social pressure so many of your friends are probably in things and you want to say you've seen them you want to feel like you're sort of part of it you've just been in Margate Is that a pressure because... It's a social pressure. So many of your friends are probably in things. Yeah. You want to say you've seen them. You want to feel like you're sort of part of it.

You've just been in Margate. I've just been in Margate, yeah. Yeah, you've been in Margate too long. Well, actually, at that time, I'd been in LA, so I was like, I'm coast to coast. Margate, LA. Oh, my God, babe. I love that story so much, and I can imagine... Don't lie, darling.

That's amazing. It's almost like a... Don't ever lie. Don't lie. It's a Curb Your Enthusiasm moment for sure. That's amazing. It's almost like a curvy... Don't ever lie. Don't lie. It's a curvy enthusiasm at the moment, for sure. That is amazing. And she's right. I've never been able to lie.

My face cannot... It can't hide. But then you're an actress. Yeah. So how does that work? Well, I think there's this really funny misconception that acting is actually about lying. No, it's not.

It's about telling the truth. Exactly right. The actors that we really love tell the truth in a way where we go oh bloody hell that was really to the soul do you know and the actors that lie we go don't love that yeah i okay so when you're having you zowie's having shit day yeah and you have to go and be a character that is i don't know i don't know having the most fantastic life and blah blah blah but like isn't is that not quite hard sometimes to transform it's really hard but i suppose the work you're not lying though i guess yeah the work is

to connect to something that feels truthful that you can draw on yeah and I think maybe that's why I ended up deciding to stop I think I've been calling so much on my emotional life since a child so I was kind of done with that I thought I actually just need to call on my truth and have it be about me Zowie as a woman in the world rather than I'm calling on my truth to serve someone else I just need to finally start serving myself at some point um I think that's the only danger for me that I perceive in acting it's not that you might get to a point where you go how do I summon this emotion it's that you might get to a point where you're summoning emotion so much on behalf of other people that you will lose sight of how to access it in um

your real life and that's what keeps you warm at night at the end of the day so is that when you wrote your first novel I definitely wrote the book at a point where I was stepping away yeah because it was about revisiting uh the literal and metaphorical chapters of my career in my life I mean you know what it's like when you're in entertainment suddenly you go oh the membrane is really thin between me and this job like we were saying you turn up to an event you're like I feel awkward when do you decide not to go to the events because actually it's not having a great effect on your mental health or do you just keep going because you are involved more with the performative side of yourself than the non-performative side of yourself you know what's happening at the moment

because you've got a book I came back to London to do press for the book and I thought I was actually after London and Broadway I thought it was going to take a year off because I still look I quit and then suddenly I was doing work that I really loved but I think I was still playing with a different deck of cards in a way I was was still, I was doing the work, but I wasn't letting the work consume me in the way that it had before. So I was kind of, I don't know, like a, I felt like quite a different woman at work. And when I feel like taking time off, I actually take it. And it's not because, you know, I have this pot of money that I can dip into. I just, I indulge the other, I don't know, the other sides of myself. I've really worked hard to make sure our ways of earning,

so writing or voiceover, which I love doing. I did an audio book today, which is one of my favourite things to do. So I know how to hustle and I always have. I think maybe when you start as a child, that's where you just live, you know, is in the hustle. What was was your first job I started at the Anna share theater really um okay then that's where Daniel clue you went Daniel yeah it's huge that's the flat where you in the gang is that where you are loved it I'm so young a press can't even happen jet I need press guy oh no you were too young

but I did my first class at five andgang. Oh no, you were too young for this. I did my first class at five and a half. First job when you were six. What was that? Jackanory. Wow! And in my move, guess what I found? What? Back then you used to get a letter, typewriter written letter, confirming your status as a hired person. You'd have the BBC heading in one corner,

the shows, sort of, you know, artwork up in another corner, and a thank you for joining and letting you know that the costume and hair people would be in touch. And what was the other thing that was really funny? I've got it on my phone, hold on. So this has the old BBC.

It's got a number starting 081. Oh, wow, yeah. 2nd of December, 1991. Dear Zowie, thank you for... What's that say? For agreeing to take part in our Jackanory programme. Jackanory.

Entitled Seeing Off Uncle Jack. Please find scripts enclosed. The costume designer, Dinah Collin, in our Jackanory programme. Jackanory. Entitled Seeing Off Uncle Jack. Please find scripts enclosed. The costume designer, Dinah Collin, and makeup designer, DJ Roberts, will be in touch with you in due course.

Wow, would they, why did they need to be in touch with you? The makeup, I mean, that's, I love it. Why would they need to be in touch with a six-year-old child? Yeah.

And this is the first chapter in my book. Directly to her, not your mum. Or your dad that's amazing rehearsals for seeing off jack will take place on friday and i remember them really i remember them clearer than something that happened yesterday because it was a happy memory or petrifying it's just it's completely formative time so when i came to write the first

chapter in my book it was clear that it had to start with the first ever job that I did. Just because that's the day that I feel like I realised I had the capacity to carry more than one person in my psyche as a six year old. That's a big thing, you know. Was that a blessing or a curse? curse for me it's been a blessing I have an incredible family I have an incredible set of friends I have an incredible set of values that are from Anna share from you know all the different institutions that I've been through in my life that have given me this rod of steel so So I always joke and say, instead of like a heroin addiction or a shoplifting spree

that we've seen other child actors do over the past however many years, I've written the book. Like that's my... Well done. That's my like fucked up rebellion. It really says something about who I am. It's like, yeah, how are you going to really,

you know, rebel against this mad thing that you ended up doing as a kid I'm like maybe I could write a novel about it and talk to people about so the novel's about it it's not I always say I didn't want it to be an actor's memoir because I find them so cringe especially if you're under the age of like 80 it's like what what what are you telling me about your life and about so you've written it as a novel it's a novel it it it sort of works between the realms of fact and fiction because that's I think how I've experienced my own life um I don't experience life in a linear way really I don't know do you get off with Jack Whitehall in your novel? Funnily enough, I left him out.

Work is really good. Like, you work all the time. Yeah. And you do amazing things. Stopping reading didn't work out for me, though. You are working as an actress now. Yeah. What are you doing now?

I just started a few very exciting episodes of The Handmaid's Tale. I'm obsessed with the show. I'm obsessed too. And I've been pregnant for a lot of those shows and it's very stressful. It's really huge. It's so funny because when I read that book when I was younger in my teens I was obsessed with Margaret Atwood me too I haven't watched it because I'm so obsessed with the book it's really well done we are so similar I didn't want to watch it because the book was so seminal to my life I think I had a resistance there too yeah i was so obsessed with her when

i was younger i read like all of her novels like way too early and and you know what was it the blind assassin that she wrote as well i didn't read that at the time i wrote i am i wrote freudian slip i read the robber bride which is one of her novels, which is literally that thick. Yeah. And I was about 11. I didn't read it. And it follows this group of women and there's like, you know, torture and rape and relationships. Anyway, so The Handmaids was part of my formative reading. And you're right.

When the show came out, I thought, oh, my God, how is this going to happen? Elizabeth Moss is so brilliant. I had auditioned for the show and read one of the scripts and you and I went oh my god this is as good as it could be well she's involved isn't she Margaret she's really she's really involved but when I read that book at first I saw all of the of the things that I wanted to rail against as a young woman. You know, I was like, I cannot believe, like, female oppression and, you know, silencing and torture. You know, I had this very anarchic response.

And now I watch it as an older person, as an older woman, and I go, oh, my God, this is about motherhood. Truly. I never would have thought that as a teenager that's just not where my head was at are you gonna keep on writing yeah definitely and just keep on just doing everything and more and whatever you fancy is there anything else that you feel like you do you sing no maybe you can maybe I can on that note what's your what's your karaoke song okay I feel like my go-to I mean obviously it's going to be a catalog from the 90s somewhere

it's something like money talks oh okay anything where I can be my own backing singer so you're like money talks money talks dirty cash yeah okay singer. So you're like, money talks, money talks, dirty cash, what you... Okay, yeah. And so you're like two people in one. We talked about you being a baker. Yeah. What is your go-to little piece? Right now it's a chocolate orange marble cake. Oh, right'm into that i'm into that yeah anybody's recipe that you are

loving i love cobbling together random bloggers because again like i said i just take bits that make sense from one and then from another and i make my own thing. You're the Felicity Cloaks of the acting world in Bakery. You've nailed it. Yeah. How to make the perfect. That's me. Okay. I also really get quite a lot from doing the marbled icing. I feel like there's an act to it. At first it just looked like I couldn't decide what icing I wanted. And the sort of the vanilla icing was just losing against the chocolate. Just the... Not the dimensions. What do I mean? The ratios.

The ratios were just so wrong. Are you feathering on that or marbling? Marbling. Okay. I've never done that. It's not easy. No. I know.

Especially if the consistency is completely wrong. Because the vanilla icing was dripping off the side of the cake. And the chocolate icing was like, I'm not moving. So it looked, it was actually tragic, the first one that I made, and that made me quite upset. And then I've just gone back to it again and again and again because chocolate and orange, I think, for me, is a really nostalgic taste. I've loved chocolate orange ever since I was a child. Did you have one in your stocking?

Always. Yeah. I've got some little chocolate orange bites. Did you have one in your stocking? Always. Yeah. Yeah. I've got some little chocolate orange bites. Have you? Yeah. See, I don't like the bites. It's got to come out of the orange for me to really enjoy it.

You want to bang the orange. I've got to bang the orange and take out the segments. Yeah. Okay, so last supper. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice. The main of these ribs. Oh, you're sweet. The starter,

I'm going to go quite Italian on this. One of the first times I had like a full five, six, seven course Italian meal, I was surprised by how much pasta there was. I thought you were sort of supposed to avoid the pasta, but there's like two, sometimes three pasta courses. So I think my starter would be the cacio e pepe from Italy in Chelsea in New York that's one of my favorite eateries it's you know it's just as what it says on the tin you've got the pizza station the pasta station the fish station I just go to heaven every time I'm there so I would say I would start with a spaghetti and then I would move on to your ribs time I'm there. So I would say I would start with a spaghetti.

And then I would move on to your ribs. And I would already be quite full. And you wouldn't have to have potato because you'd have had a lot. I'd leave the potato maybe. I'd just leave the very pure ribs and broccoli. And what was the next one? And drink. What would you have? What's your drink?

Cocky tea. What are you going to have? What am I going to have though? What's your go-to drink that you start the night with? I love a red wine. I just do. Yeah. Any particular?

Aldi do a brilliant job. Do they? Yeah. They do some incredible red. Primitivo from Lidl is the best. The Primitivo from Aldi is amazing. Oh, is it good? Is it?

I live next to one. I live next to one. Oh, so you need to go to an Aldi, darling. I love Aldi. I don't know why. I think that's just... go to an Aldi, darling. I love Aldi. I don't know why. Their skincare's really good too. It's amazing. I think moving to Margate reminds me of buying wine from Aldi

and not expecting that much and getting a whole world of incredible rewards from their wine selection. I hope you're near an Aldi now. I'm not. It's okay, though. Not that we. No, it's...

We have got little. I feel like, you know, wine snobbery or drink snobbery i've got a lot of time for it because when you really taste something super expensive or super aged or whatever it's it's a different world like i did a job in south africa and had loads of time off and the best thing that i did was learn how to wine taste. God, that wine is so delicious. And I was like, I'm really happy to be a wine snob. Yeah. This is actually brilliant. But then I get too pissed to remember what they all said in the wine tasting. That's because you don't drink enough.

Yeah, no, it's true. You need to try harder. Yeah. Well, you weren't ready. Like Christmas dinner, you know, you need to eat a dinner before the Christmas dinner so you're nice and stretched out. I can do that shit.

Okay, so a red wine from Aldi. Yes. And pud? Oh, or a glass of Krug. See, that's me. I'm either a red wine from Aldi or I'm a glass of Krug. And that's me. Great.

Speaking of Jack Whitehall, I did Fresh Meat with. He described me, and I think it's very, very accurate. He described me as a can of white lightning on top of a Harper's Bazaar. Those are my two extremes. He's right. He's absolutely right. Do you feel like that was the job that kind of opened you up to a more mainstream audience? Or do you think, like I was lucky I I had done a job

just beforehand a film called dreams of a life um which was like a documentary feature film in a way that had these um fictional elements that I was involved in and I played a real life woman called Joyce Carol Vincent who died in Wood Green and wasn't discovered for three years and when they found her the TV was still on you know she died and the TV had gone through

the Thatcher era and the Diane era and when I got that role as an independent film lover and an actor at that time, it was just the absolute bullseye for me. And so I did that film and wasn't sure what would happen with it.

And then I did Fresh Meat and I was just convinced that I'd killed the show dead and I would never work again. What are you talking about? You were so, you were the star. I was so paranoid. You were so miserable. Darling.

But I wondered if you, Charlotte was excellent. No, but I would have thought you were a comedian playing that part. I didn't know that you were a serious actress because you're so funny. You were a force of nature on it. Thank you. You couldn't not watch it. It was so exciting.

I was kind of almost focused around you and what you said and how you put everyone in their place. That's lovely of you to say. But don't you think, Jessie? So you felt completely worried about that I went from doing like the most serious job I'd ever done to doing that and I was just sure that I was killing the whole vibe I was so insecure I was so sure that all my choices were wrong and my instincts had led me down the wrong path and oh my god when it comes out I've got this

shaved head and everyone's gonna know who I am I'm not gonna be able to hide um so I went to Cuba I went to a family wedding in Cuba to hide out and was just like so happy that the first episode was airing while I was still there and then I got because there's no internet in Cuba there certainly wasn't at the time and things are changing there now but I remember getting to an airport layover and checking my hotmail on like a paid wi-fi thing wherever I was and the stopover um just to see if my mom had emailed me or you know if people need to get hold of me and there was a message from Tony Gardner one of the actors in the first series he was throughout but one of the most incredible actors and sweetest men and he'd emailed all of us saying just get ready for your life to change and I was like what

and it what does that mean and then it did but it was lucky because dreams of a life and fresh meat came out at the same time and if you're an actor you know that if you get that one two punch or sometimes one two three punch it's like a really special thing because it was like industry people knew me from dreams of a life the indie world was engaging with that story and then suddenly you have this whole other world of people over here with fresh meat so that hardly ever happens and so you had all the ducks in the row at the time at At the time, absolutely. I mean, you'd fucking been working since you were six, babe, so I feel like you'd earned it.

Shall we have some dessert? I want to... No, darling, that means Mummy's going to sit here because you made the ring. Oh, shit, OK. Jessie, why have they gone purple-y? What? The peach is on the top. I have no idea mom how was it not sure they were that caramel were they not well hold on i didn't do this oh whatever

so zowie you love you talk about food so beautifully a memory which is just like the most perfect guest for us to have. But also, I'd love to know, you know, you've travelled a lot. You seem to enjoy eating and drinking and eating out. Are there any specific London spots that you adore? Or even in LA, where you won't ever miss out on, or on Broadway? Apart from Italy, which you love. Love it.

Are there any other spots that you just couldn't live without or you have such fond memories of? So funny, with London I draw a blank. Because I realise I really am a Londoner. And so if someone says, where do you like to eat? I will say my mum's house. Yeah, right. There's also places that I've just been to as a child.

The Blue Legume on Stoke Newton Church Street is somewhere that i went as a child do you remember it yeah with a huge aubergine outside very phallic a bit like our dessert yeah sticking out the front in there for me as you've perceived quite rightly food and psychology go hand in hand for me and that is somewhere that I've always felt comfortable that somewhere as a child I could just always feel was safe and homely and sweet and honestly I went to my I had my 30th birthday dinner in there I could have gone anywhere I went to the blue lagoon it's like Ewington because it's just good food and they've maintained their prices and they've maintained their ethos and that means a lot I actually lived above it for about three years in a friend's flat dedication so I had

the aubergine outside my window I had just that phallic symbol it was just hanging hanging there just looking up at me all the time um so so so my London choices are always going to be nostalgic like that yeah um I feel like in LA where did I really love the last time I went I lived downtown there was a Mexican fusion place I can't remember the exact name but it's adjoined to a hotel called the freehand hotel um which is just unbelievable which is around the corner from where I lived and I'm a creature of habit so I went there all the time and they had this chicken I'm a fan of chicken and yogurt together maybe because I grew up in a Turkish community there was a lot of sort of bread chicken and a very rich yogurt yogurt dip which you'd see some

people try and go oh that's a bit rich I'm like oh I could have another one have another one of those there's also a place called squirrel oh yeah yeah which everyone knows so I think I mean lines do my nut in absolutely do my head in however post mate well you can get a Postmate But I just again Feel like The mixture of flavours there Feels like it was made for me So if you're telling me I can have porridge With chicken on top

That just makes sense That just makes sense to me A savoury porridge You're prone to Savoury porridge Saved my life She should meet Sam Your new novel My new novel Savoury porridge Saved My Life. She should meet Sam, your new novel.

My new novel, Savory Porridge Saved My Life. It sold three copies and that's as many as it's going to sell. I lost my voice, again, the chapter in the book. I lost my voice doing a show. And it was the first time I've ever been that vulnerable in that capacity. And so I had to completely change my diet. They want to when you're performing in the West End inject you immediately with everything that's just going to

solve the problem on the spot because obviously no one wants to lose money they don't want you out of the show and all the rest of it and I was determined to do it holistically and so I had to change my diet um one of the things that you can have without too much trouble is oats avocados really great um no tomato onion absolutely no tomato at all onion garlic turmeric so I ended up making a lot of weird savory porridges so when I read the squirrel menu I was like you know me I feel like you might have stolen some of these random recipes, you know. Jessie, what do you avoid? What?

For eating. Oh, yeah, that's a good question. Spices. Heat, spice, tomato. Citrus? Yeah. Coffee? Alcohol?

I know. All the kind of good bits. All the fun bits. Yeah. And dairy, but, I mean, yeah. Sometimes you can feel it lubricates. It goes one way or the other. Yeah, it can be a bit, I mean, yeah,

I learnt the hard way when I, like a Texas. You completely lost your voice. That was because I was on a stupid diet. What was the diet? Oh, I fucking just wanted to lose my voice. You have the most wonderful presence and figure and face. Thanks, babe. It's awful when I hear women like you saying that i

think but i think all of i think everyone that has to be photographed unless you are the most thick-skinned most confident self-confident person the ghost darling what do you mean with it my angles angles are everything you're learning mom but I I think everyone but everyone goes through an anxiety of that idea that you can be photographed and that you can't choose that photograph and then it comes out and you're like oh and you know I don't know that was one that for me that was one of the most fun chapters for me to write in my book because I feel like it was the first time that I really told the truth about what my experience on the red carpet was and it's not necessarily the hype that everyone

thinks it is that you've somehow become like this oiled incredibly glowy flowing head like like I remember my first big red carpet I was surviving on mini snickers and like diet coke because I was just so scared of not fitting into anything so it's so weird because actually when I grew up and again we grew up in the time before this awful pressure of online presence and filters and Instagram and all the rest of it. But I was at school, my first year of school, I was so severely bullied. I was already very thin, but I became so anxious that I became like, you know, a scrawny, tall, lanky presence in the world that was just so visible that the bullying increased. But I would always look at the girls in my class who were

larger and seemed happy does that make sense and I was like I've known from a very young age that being thin actually equates to sometimes something else going on if it seems unnatural if you're fighting for it and it's not your real body type there's just a different look to it you know and I would always pray to be larger so I think I had a different start in life I was like this thin thing is just not maybe it's also an African thing where it's like you're looking a bit underweight I was bullied for being thin yeah but you were you very tall as well yeah so you like did you fit you were taller than all the other kids in your and so yeah more developed I don't know like was it just like no she's a gazelle you are you're like you are you are a gazelle oh god well you're right a gazelle so you don't want to be a gazelle when you're running

down the mountain going absolutely insane well I feel like what i don't understand sometimes is being sold the image of sometimes the person who i remember being the most miserable as as that's the aspirational and that's the aspiration yeah aspiration yeah so when kate moss suddenly burst onto the scene i was like oh she sort of looks like me when I was 11 and I was severely anxious and depressed because I was being bullied. Whereas if I look at some, you know, and suddenly Marilyn Monroe or, you know, even more recently, just actors who just look much more like women burst onto the screen, I was like, ah, yes, that's what I,

I don't know, that's what I identify as being much more in your own skin I think also my relationship to food really changed when I was in my teens when I was 16 because my mum was diagnosed with cancer and she was given the worst diagnosis you can get which non-Hodgkin's lymphoma I forget which grade at the time but it was like yeah so really sorry this is bad news it's probably curtains for you and my mum who's still with us thank you to every every god that there is used food as the way to turn it around she was not going to be someone who just went quietly into the chemo sessions and into the medication and all the Western medicines

without having an alternative to balance it out. I have an incredible godmother who's the most wonderful... Oh, God, my menstrual cycle. When you do tinctures and things. Oh, homeopath. Homeopath. So my godmother's a homeopath her and my mom start talking and connecting and talking about at that time which wasn't sexy or endorsed by any pop

stars or celebrities the macrobiotic diet and my mom started to do cooking classes in macrobiotic cooking and of course all the western doctors who again have an agenda or have some kind of link to pharmaceutical this or that can can be very innocent also can be very dodgy were saying oh why are you wasting your time with that you know and she was like this is what I feel is gonna help me and even they couldn't deny the incredible turnaround in her health. Does she still, to this day, kind of live by those? She keeps elements of it. It's such an extreme way of eating that it would be hard to keep it up for 15 years.

She's, you know, thankfully been clear now for 15 years. Does she have chemo as well? She had chemo as well so she indulged the western way of approaching it and she also indulged the homeopathic holistic way and the nutrition way we often talk about food as this punishment or this thing you're supposed to avoid or change or deprive yourself of and when you see someone I can start crying now when you see the person you're closest to essentially in the world saying this is how I choose to use food and nutrition in the face of this thing where everyone's telling me just lie down and take it is um it's a marvel really it's

it really is the transformative power of food is real. And I have, you know, first-hand life experience of that. And so if I even thought about trying, you know, getting an eating disorder or whatever, I think of my mum and, you know, I'm soon put right on that page. Like, you and your mum sound incredibly close. Yeah. I guess you must be quite excited

that you're going to be closer to her now rather than Margate. I mean, or you've been... I mean, will you see her every week? Or is it kind of just, like... I mean, we live together at the moment, so it's kind of a a different situation but we're one of those ones where we speak about three times a day i speak to my mom three times

a day when i was on broadway it was so funny i would come off stage and i would get a text from her being like how did things go and i you know it's a five hour time difference so you'd get off at like 9 30 i'm thinking 9 10 11 12 1 2 was just stay up to like 3 or 4 in the morning just to make sure I was okay. And, you know, there's such a thing as being too close. So I think my mum and I is hugely close. Sometimes I think maybe this is too close and like you have to do work to branch out in your own way. But to not acknowledge your relationship to your mother is doing yourself a disservice i've always felt that as close as you can stand to your mother is as close as you

can stand to anyone else is what my therapist says and i think she's absolutely right how interesting i think it's right darling can i have your therapist's number um zowie thanks so much for doing this I love you too honestly you can come again I'd love to good luck with the new book I feel like

you don't need any luck you are fantastic of course I do no you you're you're okay

you're excellent everything is the stars are aligned and you are brilliant and inspiring so thank you so much and thank you for being such a wonderful guest for Toga Manners thanks Jessie i'm so glad i finally have my death row meal i can go

out and commit that crime that i know i couldn't have done if i hadn't got the meal in place Well, I loved that. What a gorgeous woman. You're her spirit animal. I know, darling. She's so articulate. So articulate. So... Is the motive the right word?

She's so passionate, but also so... She's very considered. Yeah, so considered, but like... Sense of humour. Great fun, sense of humour, thinks about things. Thinks about important things, not silly things. And she's quite selfless. I'm going to call her.

Now I have her number. Good. When we were worried about where she was in the cab. That's it. That's my number now that i'm going to call her now i have her number good when we were worried about where she was in the cab that's it that's my number now that i'm gonna call and say hi and what a treat to have little charlotte here i know little charlotte charlotte is a grown woman mum i know um yeah nurse gilbert nurse gilbert who died oh well don't spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen two seasons i know, it was two seasons ago. I know, but some people haven't watched Call Them In, my mum. Well, they should have.

Anyway, yeah, it's just been a really wonderful Friday night. The perfect kind. How were my ribs, darling? They were stupendous, mum. Honestly. And I do think mascarpone is a great substitute for cream. I disagree. I like it in something else. No, I think you're wrong it's

bit powdery it's do you know what i mean alice it's almost like grainy yes you're so bloody stupid give me fucking clotted cream any day over mascarpone and it's not as fattening yeah no shit no i love it the grain i love. But I think it reminds me of tinned cream that we used to have when we were little. Because you didn't get fresh cream because, you know, I was almost a war baby. Oh, sorry, Mum. Do you want to do a new episode of Table Manners? Why? Do you want to tell me about your life?

No. And your memories? No. What was your most nostalgic smell when you were younger? Petrol. It's only ten o'clock. Petrol! What the fuck is that

because we used to go to blackpool and fill up the car thank you you've been listening to table manners that's my mum lenny with a bit of the coronas thank you for listening jesse thank you zowieowie. Jessie, what is your karaoke song? I don't like karaoke. Okay, so when I have it at my party this year... I will be the emcee. No, just you've got to choose a song. Otherwise, you're going to be sent to Siberia. I feel like I'd cry on stage.

Would it be a Whitney? No, that's very ambitious, Mum, no. So if you do what Jessie J did and go to China and have to sing songs Yeah. Covers. Yeah. What would be your best cover, not your karaoke? Are you putting me on a

plane to China to do a voice competition? No. Okay. What would be your favourite cover song? A song you'd like to cover. A Billie Holiday song. Mum, I'm too tired for this shit. Can we talk about this?

We'll play next time. Tomorrow. Alright. We'll play next time. I love you, but I'm tired. Okay, darling. Love you, Mum. Love you too, darling.

The music you've heard on Table Manners is by Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.