Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Second Helpings - Nigella Lawson

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

It’s week 2 of our summer Second Helpings series, and this week we take a look back at when the ultimate kitchen goddess joined us… Nigella Lawson. She had been top of our list since day one, and finally in season 4 we got her! We talk midnight snacks, her being a fussy eater as a child (there’s hope for all our children), eating rice pudding for breakfast… and she even changed my views on Vegemite, Nigella 4 President!! Table Manners, Second Helpings is served! Enjoy!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. Well, this guest that you're about to hear again was someone that we desperately wanted on and planned to have on for months. Sorry, can I just cut in? What? If I'm going to give you, if I'm going to pass on the baton to give you the chance to do the introduction, at least bloody introduce yourself and me, thank you. Oh, do you really need any introduction, darling? Well, I don't, but please indulge me.

Right. Hi, and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Lenny, and I'm here with my fabulous daughter, who has just been nominated for her second Mercury Prize. Of course, for the fantastic That Feels Good album. I really appreciate that introduction, Mum. I think you went a little bit too far. So I feel like maybe rein in the pushy Jewish mother if you're going to do it for the next episode.

Okay. And what is it? Is it Table Manners or is it Table Manners Second Helpings, Mum? Come on. This is a second helping of the most fabulous guest, someone we longed for and planned for for months. And it involved your brother as well, doing most of the cooking. It is the goddess that is Nigella Lawson.

Yes, Nigella Lawson came on back in season four. It was at Lenny's and we were so excited to have Nigella Lawson. Yes, Nigella Lawson came on back in season four. It was at Lenny's and we were so excited to have Nigella. She was on our wishlist since the beginning. Mum was so nervous about cooking that she... That I didn't cook. Well, I did. Alex did the prep and I did the cooking. Alex was sous chef.

Yeah. And you were head chef. I was head chef. Alex made two custard and blackberry tarts. You ate one of them. I ate one of them before just to check that the one that didn't look so good. It was quite delicious. And mum made, well, mum created the menu of, it was pistachio crust rack of lamb.

Yes. It was really good. With cocoa beans. Oh yeah. And rainbow chard. So, this is Nigella Lawson talking about her favourite places, Greece, Greek food, her mum's chicken soup recipe, midnight snacks, and being a fussy eater as a child.

Go and enjoy it. This is Nigella Lawson on Table Manners, Second Helpings. We have... Are you sick of being called a goddess? does it ever get does it get boring um it's hard to get it's boring but i feel you know fraudulent because i so not oh so not a goddess you absolutely are we have the goddess that is nigella lawson at my mom's house thank you so much for being on table it's it's so nice to be here um thanks for coming now so okay you kindly brought a candle yes like so alex my because my mum basically we were like searing the lamb we're having lamb tonight and we were searing the lamb before mum's like it smells like a bloody kebab house nothing wrong in that nothing wrong but she and then mum was

like gonna light a candle and alex said no no no you can't do that you can't have a scented candle if you're going to eat food no I think that's right not in the kitchen so we've got not not around food but I think you could if you wanted one say over there but I think not around food because you just want to smell the food you're right so I'm quite happy but I've got an open I've got an open but doesn't smell like a shop but um I I've got an open plan sort of one big room so I do have scented candles in there but they tend not you know I mean they don't waft far enough to where I'm going to eat what have you been doing today well I got back from Greece last night and I have been doing all the things that pile up I mean I wasn't away that long it's

like one week but all the things that pile up and I've managed some writing it's funny that you brought up Greece because we go to Greece every year yeah and mum was saying about how huge you are in Greece you're massive were you there just on holiday well sort of I went um to a wedding first and then i've got a friend who um comes from mykonos oh nice were you in mykonos so i was in mykonos too but i wasn't doing any of the things people do in mykonos because i was just sitting you know on his veranda speaking to his sisters doing things meeting his friends there and i kept and every i kept they kept making plans to go out and i said oh i just can't well i went to bit i'm you know i just i felt like i don't know i'm not really someone who wants to go dancing dancing in the morning although i did do a lot of that for the wedding did you eat good food there because i hear the mykonos foods are really good they're a bit

more fancy schmance well i did eat good food but also because i was you know you eat the best food in people's houses and so i ate at people's houses because i was with no just people who are okay you know great um no when i was in because you know this friend of mine is a very good cook and he lives in mcconnell he's in london mostly but you know goes back to mcconnell's and his friends are good cooks and so it was you know really great nice you can buy lovely tomato everything tastes delicious the cucumbers taste good cucumber and the melons smell the most incredible capers that have been fermented they've just been put fresh in a plastic bottle with lots of salt until all the liquid the salt and the capers all turn into liquid and there's foam oh that's so good do you think you'd be able to make them here or would they

just never get fresh capers right okay but there you couldn't they can pick them i mean it was i think but chrysula's always got jars with things in the bottom fruits or vegetables with some sort of liquid on the top you can do that yes you can do that here but you know you have to get the ingredients but you know the greeks are so wonderful and hospitable i you know just you only have to talk to them they start slicing a sausage i know putting some bit of cheese on the table unwrapping a little something it's so nice i didn't realize you were jewish so and mom's like of course she is but it's that similar thing isn't it it's kind of like is there a problem here's

some chicken soup is there a problem have some food but also that just putting things in front of you all the time or you know and um lots of you know watching to make sure you are eating not as much as my great who is Jewish in your family well all my family are but we are not religious but you're still well we know we still claim like you know the Jews will still happily proudly talk about you and JC and yeah of course and claim you and you eat chicken soup of course I do I do, certainly. Can we talk about, have you got any particular ingredient that you put in your chicken soup? Or is it just like no nonsense? Well, no, because I do change it a bit.

I do make chicken soup, but it isn't really quite chicken soup. Because I do it more as, you know, as we do, you know, the way my mother did it. I do it more, I call it my mother's praised chicken. Because I always say it's part braised and part poached and it's an act of devotion for us. My mother died very young. And so really what it is is that it's a whole chicken cooked in a pot with carrots and leeks and, you know, lemon and whatever you want

and a lot of water and so what you do afterwards is that you make a chicken so you've got a chicken soup but you've got whole bits of and do you put bits of chicken in yes so you don't have a boiling hen well no otherwise you can't eat no i don't have a boiling hen i do have a good good chicken if i want to make just chicken soup i I use wings, not... Yeah. Because wings are the best, they flavour a lot. I buy a lot of wings.

So I could... Because I... Mum goes to the effort of getting the boiling hen, which I... She'll go to Stamford Hill. I did the other day. That was good chicken soup too. That was not bad. But will you bother with the matzo balls or loxion?

Well, I don't because I'm not used to it. Although I have to say when my son was little he really did because my mother-in-law used to make you know proper matzo balls and that sort of thing and all those things as they said lots of things ending in but i do but i do like all that kind of food when i'm in New York, I'll go somewhere that has proper chicken soup. Where's your favourite, I know this is a bit of an annoying question, but your favourite country to eat in? I don't know, because I'm so fond of, you know, Italy.

I could eat Italian food all the time. And I lived there when I was young. Where did you live? Mostly in Florence. I was a chambermaid. I was in between school and university. God, you wouldn't mind having Nigella as your chambermaid, would you? But I moved around a bit too.

I went south a bit as well. But if I'm in Italy for any length of time and I really love it, I just come back really longing for some Thai food or a curry because I miss the heat. So I do miss heat. I think, in a way, I think England, London, which is really where I'm from, London,

is a fantastic place to eat in because you can get... There's everyone. Everything. And you get everything. And it's from really little places. I don't mean the fancy places. I'm not mad keen on that. and there's a good place to eat so where are your favorite restaurants oh well it's you know my favorite restaurants are a lot to do i think with habit and that so i love

the river cafe because i've been yeah do you know i went there when my kids were little you know sunday lunch and there so it's where i would go for a special occasion yeah if it's you know someone in the family's or one of my children's birthdays you know i will go there and it's lovely especially in summer when you can sit outside so i love that when hannah graduated we went there yeah and we had those lovely bellinis with their pink peaches that they'd grown outside yeah and it's just a good you know you're going to get a good meal but also that the you know i know some of the people who work you know front of house they've been there since i've been going there i've been going there since the beginning um must be a great place to work you know so i i remember i went there 30 years ago

maybe 31 years ago yeah i think i do or something and um and they've been working there so you feel that great sense of continuity and i like that i mean i do sometimes like going to a new place but my new favorite place is spring oh yeah that's i do love it the food skies and it's such a pretty place to eat i don't really like going to restaurants a lot. I do more when I'm abroad. Is it because you get recognised and it just feels like... A bit. It just makes it unpleasant because you feel like people are watching how you're eating. A bit.

Not that I mind that, but a bit. But it's a bit that. But I think sometimes it's a bit that I do cook quite a lot at home and I eat quite a lot at home. So when I go out, i tend to want something plainer whereas when i see so when i'm away i'm not eating that much you know you so then i'm would even then even then though i like quite plain things rovi is quite good have you been to yottam okay you've got to have the the celeriac celeriac shawarma yeah and um the lobster crumpets with sesame we're going there for your birthday oh my god it's so good but when you say so you you enjoy cooking at home do you ever feel like it becomes like work because

i you know us doing this podcast i mean you know my pleasure of i mean i know your gone from doing, you know, I mean, not that you ever enjoy cooking in the first place. Yeah, it's really odd. I think it's more pressure. Yes. We want to make it kind of special. But I think cooking for people you don't know is terrifying. So if you're just talking about cooking for friends or a family or myself well that's fine but i you know if i feel there are people that i don't know or i don't feel at

ease in front of i always think people are going to get so disappointed because they expect it to be really fancy and it is really you know roast chicken that's what i've always liked about your program it was always about like this occasion but it was just friends it wasn't supposed to be something fancy over fancy so that's communal but we all sometimes feel you know exhausted there are times when i feel i am just too exhausted to cook however once i'm actually pottering about in the kitchen you know stirring something i decompress and i feel better but i think that there are certain moods when you when it does all feel like too much but actually it's like so many things you know the thought of it

looms so so much and you have such dread yeah but then when you do it i like it but i think that whenever it is too much it's because i've tried i've decided to do too much and that's why i nearly always write my list and then read it again and then cross half the things out because i've thought oh i'm gonna do too much you don't need all that much i mean i think that there's a slight i find it slightly difficult sometimes if i'm cooking and i have to remember what i'm doing when and then people sort of you know how they want to talk to you and they suddenly lounge in front of the stove and you're trying to get something or I forget yeah but I think mostly it doesn't really matter and it's as long as you kind of keep your calm calm it's that that's more important than whether things work or not I mean I am you know I do tend to be some one of those people that says oh that should be more like this or that that's over yeah that's undercooked

but I will only allow myself to do it once because I think otherwise it becomes a bit boring yeah that's the wrong thing yeah but I also feel that I don't you know the clearing up on the other hand sometimes that you know sometimes I just think oh god I can't face that does that make you decide like have you ever been like you know what I'd love to do that but that's going to require so much clearing up I can't be arsed I'm going to do a one potter well I never do fancy things anyway but it is just more that sometimes it's about this which is that I've got some plates I really like but they just don't fit in the dishwasher. You can't be asked to wash them. And it's just that thing of there are lots of people.

But actually, again, when you do it, but I'm one of those people who say, I don't mind washing, I can't stand the putting away again. Yeah, I get that. But I have to say, though, but I don't particularly want people to help me clear up because I need to do it in my own time and my own pottery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just leave it.

And do it. But, you know know i don't cooking as performance art has never interested me right so it's it's just got to taste try and taste as good as possible it does but also just it does make people feel welcome but also one of the things that's quite good about being greece is you realize they don't make a distinction between whether something is made or bought you know if it's a lovely bit of cheese for example i'm going um to a talk yeah on thursday and with a friend and obviously i can't really cook i'm gonna cook it someday before and i'm in the studio all week so i just said to her afterwards so well you know let's come back and have smoked salmon at mine after and that is really

nice so i think the thing is it's nice it's wonderful to eat with people and share food with people and I don't think you have to fetishize whether it's I don't feel I have to start you know chiseling you know radishes into chrysanthemums to go with it you know I might make a salad as well and I might then feel a bit inspired to put different things in it at the same time but actually I just want to know there's food there that we're not going to have until too late at night. Yes. Because I'm going to be up early the next morning, so I don't want to make a big deal of it. But do you, I mean,

have there been any kind of brilliant mistakes you've made in, when you've been kind of, because, you know, you've got, you're a chef, you know. Well, I'm not, though. That's the, no, but that's a really, really big distinction. It's a really big distinction. But how can you not, because she's not because i've never trained i have no but i've never cooked

in the in public like having a restaurant even like when i do demos i think oh my god please do i have to do a demo because i mean i don't you've seen me on tv i don't cut properly you don't need to but i think that's the charm yeah but that's you know i'm not a chef i'm not trained and i speak to your time about it i don't think it he's not a chef he's trained as a pastry chef i think but okay would you call yourself a cook yes but i'm yeah i call myself a home cook okay god i won't call you a home cook yeah but but i thought makes it you sound like us no but that's only because home cooks always talk themselves down. I think of myself predominantly as a food writer, to be honest,

because it was writing about food that made me... Yeah, I wondered how you learnt to cook. I learnt from such a young age, because my mother believed in child labour. And, of course, in the olden days, people didn't worry about child labour. And of course, you know, in the olden days, that people didn't worry about, you know, child safety. You know, so we had a very rickety sort of, or we had an old, it was called something like New World gas range.

Oh, yeah, New World. And, you know, she'd put a rickety chair, me and my sister, we'd be standing on the chair, stirring things and just getting things done. So we weren't doing it as amusement you know now you know you were helping her yes we had to help and do things properly so the for me the big challenge um when i wrote my first book was learning how to weigh and measure because certain things certain things i did weigh and measure for, but things like making a white sauce, you know, bechamel,

I had no idea how to do it except by sight and feel. And then I had to, I think it's called reverse engineer. And I do that quite a lot. A lot of my recipes come because I just cook something and then I have to work out what I did. It's so tedious, that part, isn't it? It doesn't come naturally to me, but I've got a slightly obsessive streak which comes in handy.

What did you do at university? Medieval and modern languages. Oh, no. Math's not my strong point. I did manage to pass an O-level, but not... Medieval and modern languages. Bloody hell. So what languages do you speak? Oh, God, hardly any now. French, German,

and English. Oh, piss off, Nigel. No, I don't mean French, German, and English. I mean French, German and English. Oh, piss off Nigella. I don't mean French, German and English. I mean French, German and Italian. But I actually don't think I would be able to remember any German now. Although I did rather love it. And which medieval language? Well all of them, you know, going back. But mostly

Italian and you know going from sort of medieval Latin and also Provencal with the French people. But i mean you don't you just read it you're not having to talk anything it's so exciting i like reading i'm a reader so i was going to do english but then i thought i'll do languages because what was the last book you read that you loved i am reading at the moment a book that i am rather transfixed by called i think it's called the overstory and it it's... I've heard about it, yes.

People and their connection to trees and... Isn't it on the Booker? It is, yes. Is she Australian? She's not the one that's terribly young. No, I think it's written by a man. I can't remember his name and I should because I read it on the iPad.

You don't have the book in front of you. Oh, God, really? I can't do it. It hurts my eyes doing the iPad. Well, I read with sniper's lenses at night. So I've got lenses which are yellow, which block out the blue light. It's only because when I go away, how many books can you take? And also, I'm a very bad sleeper.

So if I read a book with a light on it's going to keep me awake longer than reading with my ipad and my sniper's glasses so that's where you read in bed or anywhere but you'll read a lot mostly i do how many books a month would you read it's difficult to say because it depends what i'm doing you you know, because if I'm out a lot. Okay, if you were really busy. I would probably read one or two books a week. Oh, my God. No, but I don't do other things. I'm a disgrace. No, it's not about good or bad.

Well, I do sometimes, I mean, I do sometimes, but it's not about... So it's like you're reading... I don't watch TV a lot, you see. There's so much good TV at the moment. I do sometimes, I know there is, and I do watch some, but I do feel i need a certain amount of quiet so i can only do noise for so long i need

to learn so but that but you see my idea of you know a really great evening is going to bed very early you know no wonder i don't see because they always say you mustn't go to bed really early and just read for hours and if i'm not doing anything at the weekend, I get up, have tea at that. I might do some, you know, yoga class or something like that. And then I go back to bed with a book and that's what I do in the daytime. See, you're a bit of an insomniac. Or you're a bad sleeper. Well, I am an insomniac, but I try and live with it,

and I try and do things about it. I mean, I'm kind of with you on the thing of going to bed. I love early dinner. I'm not an insomniac. Jessie could sleep standing up. No, but you see, they always say, and every time I've seen anyone about my bad sleep, they always say, you must go to bed much later,

and you mustn't lie down and read in bed. Why? Because you're meant to bed much later and you mustn't lie down and read in bed. Why? Because you're meant to just go there for sleep and give yourself a shorter window. But if I go to bed late, I worry, because I wake up early, I worry about how little sleep I'm going to get. But I think this is a function of having children.

I think you never, ever lose... You never recover. You never lose that thing of working out backwards how much sleep you know when you you stay out longer than you mean you think and you just you go you always try and count how many hours sleep if i actually get to sleep when i get home how many hours sleep maximum i'm going to get and you never quite recover from that and then you stress out about it so much i know i know i know i'm and i always get worried oh, I'm going to get to be tired when I do that and I'm not going to get enough sleep, which is a really mad way of thinking about it.

But I think it leaves a scar. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I mean, so, because actually my brother, because my brother really is a big fan and that's kind of why he had to leave the room. But he wanted to know like you know because you talk about going down for like a midnight feat like well i do that in tv more but than i do i mean i try is that an actual thing when i try not to um i try not to i only really do that if i've been drinking at all because i'm not very good at alcohol so any I mean in the sense you're not drinking yeah

I do but not very often I mean I did you know quite a lot in Greece I have to say but what I mean is is that so if I come back from having if I have two even two glasses of wine you're good to go with snacks no but you know the it makes my blood sugar go up and then I need to have lots of food afterwards so I often will go up for dinner and if I have wine I have to eat something when I get back so when you go out for dinner do you drink wine then I do sometimes I try and drink not always not always sometimes I just can't face it have you never liked it very much yes but I've never been a big drinker okay it's like you really um but I do like it, but I'm a bit...

I mean, I do try to, because I think sometimes if you don't drink, it's like after the first hour of a party, you're in a different room than everyone else, and that can be quite difficult. I mean, I feel that I'm quite an anxious person, and drink can really exacerbate that anxiety so i or the other way depends well well i think at first it doesn't it gets rid of it at first but then but then afterwards you do that horrible you know tight feeling of you know worry and just generally just not feeling quite right

kingsley and miss always said there are two um hangovers the physical hangover and the metaphysical hangover and the metaphysical hangover was worse yeah definitely wondering what you said the night before but it isn't even that it's just that i mean i don't mean that much drinking it's just it does something to me but i think maybe it's an age thing too after a certain age you don't well the hangover you don't deal with wine as well you have you know what it is it's being out of practice so um i last year training month last year i went into training a bit because i was went to italy for three days and so the two weeks before that i started having a glass of wine a bit each week to go to training to get myself used to it i love that i this is actually quite

selfish of me i've got my best mates hen coming up and i've decided we've got this beautiful house in canberra sands that it's kind of it's like this scandinavian like beautiful we've basically put all the fucking budget in the house yeah which means that i'm kind of stumped with maybe trying to be quite genius about what brunch we're going to do yes what would be your best go-to brunch thing for 12 people that's kind of feels like i can feel like i'm slightly effelers i was thinking kedgeree yeah i think that's a good thing quite good it is if you've got big enough pots i've got quite an easy recipe too that i do quite a bit in the oven it's i call it my asian flavored one and it's made with salmon it's not traditional

no it's got lime and coriander and that sort of thing so it doesn't have smoked haddock in it no it's not at all like that i just but you know but kedry is great or you can do one of those things i think they call them a strata in um american i've got i've got a croque monsieur bake, which is, so really you're doing like a savoury bread and butter pudding. Ooh, that's delicious. So I've got brown bread, plastic brown bread, you know, because they're thin. Like sliced kind of? Yes. Not fancy.

I mean, you could use any. Okay. And I make cheese and ham sandwiches. I think it's gruyere and ham with some Dijon mustard, and then you beat eggs, and you can put that in the fridge the night before, and you put eggs and milk in it, and you let it soak in,

and then you just put it in the oven in the morning. That sounds good. Like eggy bread. Well, it is, but it's like a pudding. It's in a dish. It's in a casserole oh yeah do you know what would be quite nice well um to do like a chinese congee you know if you had a slow cooker oh what like the rice yes that ricey soup with chicken stock but not everyone likes

that i know i feel like that could be a bit like marmite i'd quite like rice pudding and jam wouldn't you if in the morning i wouldn't mind i don't you see i do you know the funny thing is breakfast is the only time i actually have to make myself eat rather than oh really and so because of that i have the same thing every day more or less and what is it porridge no i don't you know i don't understand porridge just makes me starving you know how everyone says it feels it makes me completely starving me too i mean I mean, I love it. Porridge with golden syrup. Delicious. And they say it's got this slow-release energy.

I'm still waiting for it. For me, not at all. No, I have poached egg on toast. We do too. Do you add Marmite? I don't. I sometimes do. But, you know, I'm a traitor to my people because I like Vegemite.

Oh, get out. I'm sorry. How can you? Because Marmite isn't what it used to be. What? Is it right? Yes, get out. I'm sorry. How can you? Because Marmite isn't what it used to be. What? It isn't right. Does it change? Yes, I do.

I feel it lacks the base note now. It's all squeaky and high. Where's the base note in Vegemite? I don't know, because it's matte rather than shiny. It's a bit more base note-y. But I do... There was one that Marmite, they brought out some time ago that was XO or xs or something like

that and that was delicious and it tasted more like like meaty yeah it tasted more oh but like that strong rich flavor oh god i didn't even know about the i don't know that i still love marmite yeah anyway so you absolutely has to be done so i do so you have poached egg on toast yes i do just i used to have um i used to have boiled egg on toast but since i taught myself how to poach an egg very late in the day tell us how you do yours so okay well if i'm doing it for fancy like people coming i first crack the egg over a tea strainer into cup to get rid of because a french chef told me this is that the point about eggs is that the older they are if they're're not really fresh, the older they are, some of the white turns watery.

And that's what makes all the strands. But what I do when it's just me at home or, you know, the kids, I crack the egg into a little cup. Yeah. And I pour lemon juice or vinegar just on the white and leave it there while the water heats up and everything and then when i so i don't get the water boiling it's just nearly bubbling very very low and then i tip the egg in and i leave the watery bit that stayed in the bottom of the cup in the cups and then so it's more it's a bit more solid as i say i strain it if i want it perfect and everything and then i leave it and I leave it on very low

sometimes if it's only got one egg you can turn it off and leave it for three to four four minutes yeah um just in the turned off water yeah but I but if it's any more than one egg I think you have to have it very low but I have it so low that I often forget to turn it off altogether anyway so I leave that in and I take it out with a slotted spoon pat it on a bit of a kitchen towel and I put it out with a slotted spoon, pat it on a bit of a kitchen towel and then I put it on my toast. Is the food ready? Do I need to turn on the celeriac? Mum wanted to drizzle the truffle oil in front of you. OK, celeriac. So how did you do the celeriac?

You just boiled it and put lots of... I find peeling celeriac and cutting it so hard. You know what, this... It's so difficult. Have you ever tried Jotam's whole baked celeriac? It's about three hours. I haven't, but I keep meaning to. Because I find it impossible to peel and cut. keep meaning to do because I find it impossible to peel and cut. We've done rack of lamb with a pistachio crust and it's just sitting there so I'm going to cut it. So what was the kind of most

memorable dish from your childhood that your mum used to make? Well do you know what I really really hated meals as a child and whenever people come to me and they say, oh, my child doesn't eat, I will say, listen, I did later, but I never did as a child. I didn't like it at all. You didn't like the sitting down? I don't know, because I didn't like... I don't remember enjoying the eating either.

But I was brought up in a very strict way. So you were given your food and you had to stay at the table until you finished it. And if you didn't finish it, the plate was given to you cold at the next meal. And that was actually old-fashioned even when I was a child. And so I didn't like that,

but I liked quite strange things as well. I loved spinach, which I still do. I adored spinach. A lot of spinach with butter, my idea. So that was what you were having when you were younger? Yeah, when I went to my grandmother's. And she would let me have what I wanted. So if I wanted a big bowl of spinach, I could have that.

And I used to go I used to go to Panzer's with her she lived in Cavendish Avenue and I used to go to you know Panzer's yeah of course you do yeah and it's Circus Road Circus Road near St John's Wood yeah and um so I'd go there and we'd buy things and we'd go to the butcher and we'd go home and make something and I ate weird things like I you know I like brains and uh brown butter and I didn't and I'm so you know I was very very young I didn't realize it was actually brains from an animal I just thought it was something called brains you know what I mean oh wow do you still like brains I do I do like I like I had something in um Greece called kokoretsi kokorezzi is fabulous. It's like offal.

It is, all offal in a roll. And then the intestine on the outside, like almost like intestine all crackling on the outside. It's so delicious. If you were going for a bring a dish, bring a dish to a friend's party. Oh God, it would make me so nervous. Would this stress you out?

It would actually, because I feel like I was being judged. But you probably, I mean, people expect something of you now, right pasta i think is quite a good thing bait pasta okay so come on tell me like just like a tray a tray bake well yes but i mean i so i might do a bait i do one with mushrooms i do a kind of like a bechamel and lots of mushrooms and stir them all in together or but i do want to when i i suppose one of the things i do remember from when i was a child that my mother um used to cook was leeks and white sauce and i cook it in the same way so i don't slightly different so she would cook the

leeks in water cut them into you know short logs cook the leeks in water and then mix that water with the milk to make the best milk i I put vermouth, dry white vermouth, because I don't drink enough wine to have open bottles of wine. You could do wine that. So I put a bit of, you know, I don't mean the best, you know, a bit of martini, Bianca. And with the water, not that much for the leeks. And I use that to make the sauce.

And I use, and sometimes, my daughter calls it pie insides, because when I used to make pies, I used to put sometimes my daughter calls it pie insides because when I used to make pies I used to put that in yeah but I sometimes I make that into a pasta bake with cheese with cheese and it just leaks the cheese when we're having the manicures on the Saturday at the end yes I'm starting um I'm always ready yeah are you in kind of mad working mode at the moment from promoting because well how to eat has been re-public i mean yes i don't know there's a re-issue re-issue there's a sort of 20th anniversary so i'm doing a bit of that um you've got a at all other yeah I am I'm going I'm looking forward

to that I like doing this do you want me to cut your rack it's rack of lambs lovely fantastic from wonderful gingerbread

do you have that yes I know so how many would you like that's unfair to us and would you like no just the four four yeah

that's how much I would eat three or four and do you want me to cut them through or will you cut them through will you cut them please okay unless that's a nuisance no eat and do you want me to cut them through or will you cut them through will you cut them please unless that's a nuisance mum is being really different

to how she usually presents you're trying to be polite no I know it doesn't suit you but you've got a book tour well it's a sort of a book tour but it's not really going to be just about how to eat I'm going to various theatres. But I'm looking forward to it, because what's really nice,

I've got such wonderful people interviewing me. And also, so the second half, you know, the first half is sort of talking. So it's really, in a way, as you know, when you interview people, it's where the questions go, and it's a conversation. But then what I really like is the second half is questions from the audience and that's always interesting because i you know you never know what you never know but i never know when someone's interviewing me i don't ever want to be to ask told beforehand what you know you gotta you've got to answer in that moment it's actually

really yeah it's because otherwise otherwise you start you, trying to think, what would be my answer? But also to have different interviews. I mean, I've never done a book tour, so I don't know how it is. But I mean, it's just... And to choose such brilliant people like Dolly and who else have you got interviewing? I've got Diana Henry.

I've got Charlotte Mendelsohn, a novelist. I've got... Did you choose these? Were you like, I quite like these people? yes I was, I wanted people from different ages, different, who had written different sort of books, but people who

were interested in food or writing thank you yes please mum that pink lamb is just perfect, that is cooked to perfection Michelle Ruggini will be very impressed mum mum that pink lamb is just perfect that is cooked to perfection that is so good michelle would be very impressed mum mum this is great oh my god that's great but the lamb is perfect it is it's just perfect we we ask

everybody yes fire away um last supper you see that's such a difficult one okay desert island no no no i'll tell you why because i feel there are so many things i feel making choices and leaving things out it's going to be so difficult okay okay so first i would have either guacamole, but the one I do without any tomatoes, and not with red onions, but just spring onions, green chillies, lime, salt, coriander, avocado, or guacamole, which I do, which is blue cheese and guacamole mixed. So it's got spring onions, sour cream, blue cheese. Nigella, you can have that. I won't have it.

I'll have one and I think maybe I'd have the guacamole. Go out with a bag and have the guacamole. And I'd have some incredible bread and butter and bread and olive oil, every sort. What kind of incredible bread? I think I would have incredibly good French bread or English white loaf with butter and I'd have some extraordinary sourdough okay

with um i had some incredible sourdough from the dusty knuckle they're my friends are they yeah yeah and then funny enough um oh my god it's gonna be so happy and um my god it was so good i had their potato sourdough they're phenomenal phenomenal. Oh my God, it was so good. So I'd have that. And then I think I would have linguine with clams, you know, with garlic, parsley, a bit of chili, no tomatoes anywhere, white wine. Oh, no tomatoes.

No, absolutely, I forbid the tomatoes. And then, you see, then you see it's difficult because you do get quite full up. So I would want a proper roast chicken dinner but i would also like i love that that was a primi a primi oh yes but but also you know it's your it's your last dinner you're gonna have dinner but i would also like you know a proper steak and chips with bearnaise sauce as well i think that could be and i would like a fennel and lemon salad with or without maybe some very thinly bit shaved bits of pecorino very thinly cut raw fennel lemon juice cleansing

i'd have peas i do frozen peas which i cook you know for a very long time so they go gray and they're so delicious why don't you cut them, it depends. Sometimes I just do a bit of vermouth and mustard. Or sometimes I just do a bit of oil and butter and water. So they kind of look like those miserable peas that you get in the... They look like the French bottled ones. No, because they're small. Because they have a pretty poire. They look like the French bottled ones.

So I might have to have those two, but certainly... And then I think I would have um some gorgonzola yeah and then either like blackberries and cream or lemon meringue tart well hopefully you're going to like the pudding yeah which Alex made it's it's a blackberry and custard tart fantastic yeah with your recipe for the pastry oh good yeah he did it that's actually the first time that we've done it's not meant to be sycophantic it was just that Alex

is obsessed with it because we just received your book I think that crust was very good it was pistachio and mint I love mint so underused do you think you have good table manners It was pistachio and mint. I love mint. So underused. Yeah. Do you think you have good table manners?

Well, I think you do. I don't know. People should judge. I don't know, but you see, everyone, I think, as in the rest of life, what manners really are being considerate to other people. See, my mother, even though they were old-fashioned and strict some ways had these rather she was quite quirky as well so she's to say don't ask stretch because you know when you were little you were told really she said it there's nothing she said it's very rude to interrupt people's conversation so if people are talking don't say excuse me can you pass potatoes just get them oh no you see with the other way i know

everyone was brought up the boarding house reach everyone was brought up the other round but she said that but i think that really manners are about being considerate to other people yeah i agree um i mean it is difficult there are certain people who you you really need not to be looking at when they eat and that's not pleasant and i think probably a lot of them are in my family but um i don't think that i mean i think if you're when you see people sitting around a table and they're not being together that's quite a sad thing i think so what would i so i have certain rules i don't like which i know that i don't like cross-contamination so I can't bear it if I see someone putting

um I haven't I I have servings yes and I don't like it and if people use their yes and people use other spoons and I don't like it if people put anything a butter knife is a button if I don't want people to be putting um i agree jam or crumbs in the butter i don't like that i think that's perfectly reasonable but i wouldn't tell someone else off but i wouldn't tell someone else i realized that that was because i was brought up very strictly about that and so i have a thing about it why were they so strict do you think i don't know this were but was eating important in your family because food was definitely yes and the appreciation of the food and your mother's efforts because because in i think in those days it was considered rather

vulgar to talk about food whereas at home you know other people said you know it was not considered the dumb thing whereas we were always we're always talking about what we've eaten what we're going to eat other things we could be eating as we're eating but even when you know but as i say as a child i wasn't so much like that but i as i grew older like teenage um i did get much more interested in eating and i think it's because i and this is i think it's because i like being in control of it and i in a way, I love being cooked for, but I can't imagine what it would be like not knowing what you're going to eat every day. But I knew every day what I was going to eat.

No, but what I mean is that some people are cooked for, always. Oh, I see what you mean. And they don't mind what they eat. Do you think that even applies to when people just basically eat out every night because then they know what they're going to... I don't... Yes.

I couldn't do that. I feel like I need that control too. It's not just that, but yes, it panics me. If I'm out and I don't see anything I want to eat, I get a bit panicked. Oh my God, me too. You see, I think often as well with hunger is that I don't always experience hunger in my tummy that I need to eat. My mood goes. And I experience it as panic and despair

rather more than actually thinking, oh, I need to eat. And every now and then I think, oh, maybe I need food. I never forget. No, I never forget. But sometimes if you're working, you can't. I feel you have to...

And when I'm traveling, sometimes I miss get and it's really hard for me i get a bit hysterical when i'm not fed i think we should have dessert oh yeah let's have dessert sorry yes are you yeah you're left in charge of what goes on top it was it's crumb fresh but it was supposed to be whipped crumb fresh but okay we didn't whip it we don't need it we don't need crumb fresh with the custard tart you don't think I think you need the tartness. I'm going to have it, but... I'm going to take a picture. I'm going to take a picture of Nigella taking a picture.

I have to say, your pastry is very good, Nigella. Alex has done a very good job. Mum's quiche dish, which is a bit deeper, got broken today. today nigella said don't use quiche dishes oh yes ceramic you say it makes it a soggy bottom this is so good it's good see you i i like the creme fresh with it because it gives a little i can understand that but i don't know well okay let me try it with as well it's just a pastry good pastry recipe. But it's very crisp. It is, isn't it? I can taste the nutmeg in the custard.

So how did, and forgive me if you've talked about this so much, but how did you get in to start it? Because you were a journalist before you became a... Well, I was. So I wrote about all manner of things. I started off in the literary side, in arts. And arts journals and then the literary pages. And then I wrote sort of being a columnist.

But I also at the same time did write a restaurant column from quite a young age. But that was once every two weeks. But the other stuff I did, know more days a week but um because you were a restaurant critic how did you find that well that was in the days when there weren't restaurant critics much they had stopped and I they had been but then they'd sort of stopped and I started it again that was very clever uh it was only you know but uh I've you know in a way it was quite interesting because I felt that my job was to sort of give an idea of the experience to people I mean I didn't do that way it's done now often when it's a funny turn

yeah you know but I think we've all become a nation of critics, don't you think? Because of MasterChef and Bake Off. And Twitter. Yes. And I think social media, because of social media and blogging and... And talent shows and X Factor.

Yes. So we're all very critical of things. And I think that's what makes people nervous of cooking because they almost feel they're going to be judged. Yeah. Absolutely. I think you're right. How do we reverse that then?

Well, I think you just have to surround yourself by people you like and then they're not judging. Would you like coffee or tea? Tea, maybe. I've got some fresh mint for tea. I'd love that. I'm very happy. Thank you.

Thank you so much for doing this. We've wanted you to be on this podcast since we thought of it. Oh, I'm so pleased because it's so nice I mean I couldn't be feel more at home or happier that's so great

but no this has been bucket list tipped oh god I hope I haven't been a disappointment are you kidding that's worse

you've given me all the ideas for my hen do that I'm looking for and you've been amazing thank you You've been amazing. Darling, it's just as fabulous to listen to her now as it was then. She was a wonderful guest.

And do you remember she wrote beautiful thank you cards? Yeah, she did. One to Alex in beautiful brown ink. It was such a privilege to have Nigella. Classy. Well, I'm going to go off and ping mum Mick Crowavi and you are going to not put a scented candle on whilst you cook. I'm not. Big faux pas. Thank you for listening to Table Manners Second Helpings and we will see you next week.