Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Second Helpings - Tom Jones

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

It’s week 4 of Second Helpings and we were delighted to have our most requested guest, Sir Tom Jones, over to Lennie’s for lamb shanks a lemon curd roulade and a chat about his album ‘Surrounded By Time’ in 2021. We go way back and talk about Tom growing up in the 50’s playing marbles falling in love and getting married at 16. We also hear about his beloved mother’s corned beef pie. He reminisces about meals shared with Elvis Presley, Las Vegas bourbons with Frank Sinatra & Tom’s son / manager Mark even makes an appearance telling us how his Dad isn’t a very good cook..!! We loved having you Sir Tom, thank you! Enjoy! X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Here's the show that we recommend. I'm Mark. And I'm Ryan, and you might know us from our award-winning CBC podcast, Let's make a sci-fi. But we want to tell you about our brand new show, the town show. On The Town Show, we are building a fictional town. Every week, we invite a guest comedian on to riff with us about new citizens, new buildings, historical landmarks for our made-up town. The best way to describe it is, you know that Simpsons poster with every character on it?

We're trying to create that, but in podcast form. So listen to The Town Show out every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.com Hello and welcome to Second Helpings with me, Jesse Ware and Lenny Ware. This week we have Sir Tom Jones, who came on the podcast in April 2021. He had a new album out called Surrounded by Time, and he had fantastic stories to tell us. What did you make, none?

I made lamb shanks with vegetables because I thought he was Welsh and he'd appreciate lamb. And then I made a lemon curd roulette, which is one of my strong points as a dessert. But little did we know. And really, little did we know, that he'd helped in a synagogue when he was a boy. And he would have preferred a whole Jewish meal with chicken soup and mats of balls. And he likes chocolate. So I got it all wrong. Tom Jones coming up on Second Helpings.

We have Sir Tom Jones in Mum's Kitchen. I was caught. I feel faint. Well, I'm not going to say what you said to me when I walk. About the knickers. No, I haven't said that yet. Jessica. I said, I wished I'd have had two jabs because I'd have hugged you. Well, I mean, I'm sorry.

I feel like we've got two flurts. is in the room. This is just going to be a big flirt off. But Sir Tom, it is a pleasure to have you over for dinner. And just before, we've already been chatting and it's been glorious. But the first thing we got talking on was about how you were a Shabbas Goy. So can you please tell all our listeners what that is, what happened, what was going on? Okay. Shabbas Goy. Yeah. Is when you, the Goyam, who was non-Jewish. Yeah. So we were kids. The street that I grew up in, Yeah. When I got married anyway, which was like 16 years old,

and the house was there, my wife was Catholic. She used to go to a Catholic school, which was only a couple of doors away from where she lived, when I lived there later on. Next door to the Catholic school was a Jewish synagogue. About 20 doors down, if that, was a Baptist chapel, all in a small street. So, on Saturday,

Shabbas of course we'd be outside the kids playing waiting for the rabbi to come up and you know the people who was going to open up the synagogue that morning and then they couldn't do anything of course as you know so we would be waiting

for one of us to be picked to go in and put the lights on and my father told me that when he was young and they had boilers then you know With us, we just used to turn the heater on, you know, like that as a switch. But when my father was a boy, they used to have an olive of a wooden stove down in the basement to heat the synagogue. So he would have to go down there when he was a Shabbas guy and put the, you know, get the boilers for working.

So for anybody who is a goy, and then I'm sure the goyim that are listening, basically on Shabbas, you aren't allowed to. If you are kind of, you're an electricity on. Yeah, you're not supposed to do anything. It's supposed to be your day of rest. So that's a lovely idea that Tom and all his mates are waiting to see who the rabbi is going to pick. Did they give you money? Yeah. Good.

Did you get paid? Well, that's why we were there. Good. What do you think I'm a smuck? Sometimes you don't get paid and they think you're doing it as a lot of them. What, and they pay you and get filter. No, we would hope, you know, but they always did. Yeah.

You know, fair play. And so, Horton, I didn't know that you got married at 15. 16. 16? Yeah. Wow. How did you and your late wife meet? We were kids together in that same street, outside the synagogue, funny of that.

It was after the war, you see. They used to have an air raid shelter built in the middle of her street, you know, with a concrete base and reinforced a red brick building that the locals would go in there from their houses. So at least it all be in one, I don't know whether there's a good thing or bad, thing. Because when the bombs were dropping, we'd all be together. They'd have to know where everybody was, you know. So they would count in and you'd go in this place, which was in the street outside the synagogue. And we used to go in there as children, of course, because they

were dropping, well, we thought they were dropping bombs. Well, we were lucky, you see, in South Wales, Cardiff, they bombed, Swansea, they bombed, all of the dock areas. But then if you heard planes over Ponte Preet, where I come from, they had come in too far. Now, the problem was they couldn't get back to France where they were coming from, German planes, of course,

but they were coming from France. So they couldn't get back with a full load on, so they'd have to drop the bombs that they didn't use because they missed. Bloody how? So you think, oh, shit.

You know, they're going to... Yeah. We're going to... I mean, I didn't know. I was born in 1940. You know, so I didn't know. I remember the noise and the siren and everything, you know, but then it was explained to me later on if you heard the planes come over, then they think, oh my God, you know, they're going to drop it wherever they can in order for them to get back. So there was a problem, you see.

So they had big guns up on the hills, you know, around the valleys to, just in case, if they come in too far, they try and knock them out before, you know, they could unload. So you and your wife would have been babies in this air raid shelter? Yes, I was born in 1940. She was born in 41. So when did you start going out, boyfriend? When did she start being boyfriend and girlfriend? Well, when they, after the war, they knocked this shelter down and they kept the concrete slab. You know, the big slab there. Well, she used to play marbles on the concrete slab. And I was walking with my friends, because if she lived in a different,

street to me just around the corner really but you'd have to go out of your way off the main drag to go into the street where she lived where the synagogue was so um as i was walking through i saw playing marbles and she had great legs you see so you weren't impressed by her skillful marble play no no she was there you know giving it that and i went who is that you know like when i was i don't know nine or ten or something like that you know when you first start noticing girls They become different things And just a pain in the ass They become

More interesting They become, yes You know, you look at them in a different way So there she was playing marvell So that's the first time I was aware of her But I remember she used to go to the Catholic school And as Protestant kids I did anyway

I used to look at the Catholic girls And think wow, exotic Because they all wore at earrings See? Why? Well, when Catholic kids are born They get their ears pierce when they're young So we thought that that was like very exotic

Because the Protestant girls didn't have that You know, so I remember seeing the Catholic girls around there With these earrings in, you see Didn't you used to have your ear pierce? I did at one time, yes And so you were already married when it's not unusual came out Because I can remember watching you on Ready, Steady Go And this fantastic you had hit

hips like snake hips. Yes. Fabulous. You wore the rabbit's foot. And you were real sexy. And they were kind of putting you forward as this sexy bloat with this fantastic baritone voice. Yes. And no one knew you were married, I don't think, at the time.

No, exactly. Yeah. They kept it quiet. Which they used to do then, you see. Like marriage, oh my God, you know, you can't be married. Because none of the young girls will buy the records. That's what they thought. Right.

So, you know, it was the front of the daily mirror. I remember seeing it. After I had it's not unusual, number one, it went to very quickly. Then, oh, sorry, girls, but Tom Jones is already married. And where did it go in the charts after that? It stayed there. It was no problem. Jesse, it was such a good song.

I know. But I remember doing a ready, steady go. And I was talking to T-Bone Walker, was a blues guy. Yeah. And the girls were looking through the class, you know, at the studio. oh Tom you know you're married oh my god you know they were all like oh you know but the general public thank God it didn't didn't affect it but the but the young girls were a bit upset I want to know about this 16 year old wedding like did you get a say on the choice of meal that you had no because

you see what what happened the honest truth is my wife or myself really started going out properly in when I mean I left school at 15 which was 50 95 she was still in school because she was seven months younger than me so I finished

I started working in a glove factory she was still in school so after I would finish work I would go and you know she would just come out of school and we started going around the hills of South Wales you see

and one thing led to another of course started with Kiss Chase Before I had TB I had TB from the time I was 12 till I was 14 Two years Yeah two years In bed

I'm in the house And your lungs held out Yeah Well see it was a blessing in disguise Because they said Whatever you do You can't go down the coal mine My father was a coal miner

So I'd knocked that out So it was a blessing in disguise Because it stopped me I would have become a coal miner But that stopped me So for two years from 52 to 54, I was bedridden. And I could see my wife, you know, outside with, you know,

going up the hills with kids, you know, playing because all the heads are all around. And I'm like, oh my God. And I remember feeling an ache in my chest. You know what they say about heartache? Well, I felt heartache. Honestly, when I was 12 and then when I was 13, of course, like that. But all through, especially from 13 to. 14 when I could get out of the house,

you know, I was then moving around a bit and I could see her through the window going up the side of the thing, you know. But I, a friend of mine, you see, used to keep a check on her because he knew I liked her. So I said, keep an eye on, Linda, and make sure that she's, right, okay. And so when you had your wedding, what did you eat? Wait a minute. Okay, sorry, go on, carry on.

Kiss Chess. Come on, we were at Kiss Chaste. This is about food, I forgot. And Kiss Chase. We like a little kiss chase. It was a kiss chase, and she said, she realized because when I kissed her, when we were kids, it was something different there. So when we got married, we had to have it done quickly because she was pregnant. And by the time, you know, when the shit hit the fan, part of the expression. So you caught her then, Tom. Pardon it?

Kiss Chase, you caught her. Yes, exactly. I caught her one under kiss chase. So anyway, you know, we started, as young people do, together, you know. But we fell in love, you see. We were in love. A lot of kids fall in lust. you know what I mean

but we didn't thank God it was the real deal and I mean I remember when I had TB and I was like aching for this girl had you kissed her

by that point oh the kiss chase you know just just okay that was like 10 okay 12 exactly so then I was there but I was you know I knew there was something

about this girl you know I just felt strong for her so I come out of bed and then I used to go to the local shop for my mother

to pick the groceries up and she would be using the same shop. So if we were there by ourselves, we would find some excuse to go and get the shopping in by ourselves rather than go with our mothers, which we used to do as well. So when we had a chance to go up, I said, do you want to think down the shop, ma'am? You know, yeah, go and get me some potatoes or whatever it is. And I would be down there. And Linda, of course, nine times out of ten, she would be there. And my mother had to come around the corner and she You say, come on, for God's sake, your father's waiting for his dinner.

You know, you've got the bloody, you know, stop talking to that Linda Trenchard, her name was. Linda Trenchard, you know, come on. So, you know, you try to like, you know, try to be cool, but Mab's calling me. Okay. So that was it. So then when she became pregnant, you see, she didn't show for a long time. So when she did, it was like, you know, she was getting close. And then they said, well, what do we do?

Now there's a big kerfuffle then, you know. my grandmother came to the house and my mother, you know, all the family came around, oh, you can't, you know, you can't let this boy get married at this early age. I was there with Linda, we were in the kitchen talking, right? And all the family was there, you know, trying to work

out what's going to happen, right? And my mother, God bless her, she said, look at this, we're all disgusting what these kids are going to do with their lives and they're oblivious to what we're saying. And I said, but what? You know, like we were like, boom, you know, like that. She said, you can see them.

If this child is born out of wedlock, which was, this is in there, yeah, Mark. That's Mark. Mark is here and also is your manager. Yes. Yeah. See, so he did very well out of this. So,

Married in March and born in April. Married in March, born in April. Married on March the 2nd because it was all like January and February, it was all, oh, oh, oh. So anyway, so by the time they made up their minds, and my mother said, please that's not getting away because you can see I know true love when I say it and that it is so she said if we if we don't let them go ahead with it now and the child would be born out

of wedlock which was a big deal in those days they're going to get married anyway soon as they turn 18 and we won't have a say in it they'll get married I know they will so which family did you live with hers or yours well we didn't live together at the beginning it's a good question because her father had tuberculosis but he was in hospital with it so they didn't really want me to go you know close to her house because of uh he would be coming home in the weekends and things like that and i was susceptible because i'd already had to be so that was a bit of a problem there but we got married in a registry office because religion again came into it right so she was brought up catholic you see your father was church of england but her mother was catholic she went to a catholic

school, went to a Catholic church. And I was Protestant, went to a Presbyterian chapel. So we thought, and now it's got to be done fast, so we don't want to be, you know, getting all this stuff together. And my sister was about to get married. Oh, see, oh, no, you stole her limelight. Well, so all this came together very quickly. We went to the registry office in Pontipri, and got it done fast. Went back to our house, and I think, I don't know what it was. My mother did her. She used to do a great pie. She used to do a corn beef pie. pie, my mother, in a big tin.

Yeah. Because, you know, during the war and after the war, everything was on ration. So she could make something on nothing. You know what I mean? Was she a good cook? Oh, great cook. Oh, my grandmother, my father's mother, was a professional cook. Oh, really? Yeah.

So anyway, so we had one of these pies. So it was corned beef, you know, onions. My father loved onions. So gravy, you know, it was a big... Lovely. Yeah, so she... How many people came? Oh, only just a close family.

sister, her husband, to be, who were engaged at the time. And you were there, Mark was there. Mark was there, yes. But when did you start singing? I mean, were you singing a choir? When I was a child, I never went in for choir singing. I didn't particularly like it. You know, I didn't want to be locked into anything.

I always wanted to be a free spirit, even from a child. You know, I said, I'll sing what I want to sing when I want to sing it. Not, you know, like that. So when I was in school, the first recollection that I had about soul singing, you know, gospel music, I sang the Lord's Prayer, you know, in religious instructions. And they said, you were sounding like a gospel singer. I said, I don't know. I go to a Presbyterian chapel.

We'd sing hymns on a Sunday afternoon, you know, but that's about as far as it goes. Jesse and I, I was talking about your new album, which I love. Yes, thank you. It's very bluesy. Yes. But I said to Jesse, well, I think Tom's really a blues singer. And Jesse said, no, he's a soul singer. So what are you?

Well, that's a good point. With soul singing, you see, it all comes from the church. You know, Al Joltson, for instance. I was a big Al Jolson fan when I was a kid. Yeah. And I loved what he did. So who are your real, fabulous, The people you look up to, your idols when you were growing up, besides Al Jolson.

Well, oh, besides Al Jolson. Were they blues singers? Yes. You see, Jesse? Yeah, yeah. You see? All right, fine. But gospel is well, though, you see.

There's gospel, blues, and then it turned into what we know was soul. But that only kicked in in the 60s where they used soul music. Well, it's interesting because obviously I did a BBC show that you presented and sung on with Beverly. night. Yes. And it was a gospel, it was on Christmas Day. In Cardiff. And we had these choirs and I fantastically lost my voice.

I lost my voice the day before, which was really great when you're doing a television special on Christmas Day with Tom Jones. But I remember hearing you sing and it just being, and you told stories about these gospel songs that you were singing and it was so beautiful to hear. And to hear you singing with this choir was, I mean, it was gorgeous. So it totally makes sense. that the origins of, yeah. Yes, so that's what I was influenced by.

Yeah. I'm sure like Al Jolson was when he was a kid. Yeah. You must have heard people singing that kind of music. So when, was it, it's not unusual, your first? Yes. So what was that thought of at the time? It was pop, was pop, was it?

Pop song. What happened was, we tried a song first of all called Chills and Fever, which was like a rock. Good title. Yeah, a rock soul type thing. And that's what Peter Sullivan, who my recorder manager was, thought that's what I would get a hit with. Right? And I thought so too.

But I could sing almost anything, really, which is sometimes, is a, I think it's an asset, but people can't put a label on you. You see, that's the problem. So we did chills and fever. It didn't make it. Then I did a demo for Sandy Shore that Gordon Mills and Les Reed wrote. I did the demo on it to give to, uh, manager. she wanted the song for sandy show now sandy show had already had a couple of number one records so i did the demo on it they sent her to her and that was so she said whoever singing it

god bless her whoever singing this is his song well i had to fight for this song you know i said excuse me you know after i did the demo in denmark street i said that's it so they said what what do you mean that's it i said that's the song we're looking for is right there now you know i can i can a million of those Gordon Mill said he never did but which song was it

not there's always it's not unusual oh she was going to sing that song bloody was she pissed off that you didn't send it she had a couple

of bringing over that bum chippa bumchip bumchip yeah there's always something there to remind me those kind of things you see

and you said no well I said I want that song so thank God for her she said, whoever's singing this, I can't sing that like that. So I'm glad they asked me to do the demo. If they'd had a girl to do it, she might have done it. So how old were you then?

24. 24. Living in London? Yeah, yeah. We were living in Ladbrook Grove. We had moved to London, you know, trying to crack it, waiting for the song. You know, so we tried this chills in favor in the summer of 64, didn't make it. So towards the end of the year, when I finally said, I want that song.

So Peter Sullivan said, look, if we tried it, a mild aversion didn't happen. He said, it's not happening. I said, I know it can happen, you know, with the right arrangement. I don't know what it is, but I know it can. And then Les Reid, who was arranger as well, said, what about if I put brass just to play the same bap, as the bass drum is doing? So Peter Sullivan said, we'll give it a shot, let's see. Because he said, it's got the kick before you even open your mouth.

Right? so we lifted the key put it in C which is high and that's it was it hard for you to sing it no easy I mean I know I've done the demo

on it you see so I deal the song inside out so to me it was easy and of course boom there it was so how did Linda feel about when it went big was it weird for her and you well no she knew I was after it

she knew because she used to hear me sing when we were kids and then in the pubs and clubs and clubs with me to see, she used to get more nervous than I did. In Wales? In Wales, yeah. With a band I took a little rhythm section in there and we did these shows.

Mark, can I ask you, if you don't mind, well, I'll ask your dad. What was one of your mum's your favourite dishes that your mum did, or your dad did actually? Was your dad a good cook? Did he cook? Not me, no. I couldn't boil an egg. No, I can't.

He was on a cooking show once when we were doing a promo tour in Europe He was nearly freaked out that he was standing by a kitchen Or sink or whatever Well see my father was a coal miner My mother was in the kitchen She ruled the kitchen I used to help her when I was a child

You know peeling potatoes and doing all this stuff And I would like being in the kitchen with my mother But when I was When I got a bit older my father said Look excuse me Stay out of the kitchen, all right? To me So you just never

You got to enjoy, but you never really learn any dishes. I love cooking, no. My father loved my mother's cooking. At one point, he wouldn't need anybody else with cooking. So who's cooking for you now? Well, I got a man that works for me, Ben. And he cooks? Yes.

And he cooks? Yes, he's my assistant. And a butler come assistant. Oh, yeah, come cook. So you know, that's all I'm after in my life. You would like a butler that doesn't wear any clothes. No, I would. Just bend my clothes?

No, he cooked. Fantastic. He cooks different things. he was just cooking over there this afternoon now when Mark came over and we tried a little bit of you know meatballs with you know just a little bit

Oh yeah So you're still got an appetite for what we're giving you Oh Okay fine And you tell me it's lamb and I'm Welsh And that's why I did it So mum did I mean Yeah mum did lamb shank which we hear you are a fan of

Love it Good Oh fantastic Yeah go on Mark sorry So Mark what did your mum used to cook That felt really memorable That you really loved I can't remember.

I mean, in the 50s, everybody was going after things like fish fingers. Do you know what I mean? It was the beginning of, really. That felt really exciting. No, it was like, convenience food, frozen food. Convenience food was starting to come alive. Yeah, exactly. So it was so exciting.

But was Linda, but was Linda a good cook? Oh, yeah. What did you love of hers? She, well, she could cook anything. Yeah. Like my mother, she learned a lot from my mother. And she learned to cook. So she could cook anything you wanted really.

She got to become a really good cook. But you lived in the States for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Where? Bel Air then Beverly Hills. Oh, yeah. Why did you come back? My wife died.

After she died, you felt better here. Yes, well Mark and my son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren are here. Yeah. So what was I doing over there? No, it's true. You know. So thanks, Mark, but if you remember any more, I love the fact. that you've, your poor mother, you went,

I loved fish fingers. She was a very young woman, you see. Yeah. Because I was, don't forget, she was still growing up when I was a baby. Yeah. Really.

So, uh, it's, we had an interesting time for three of us, to be honest. It must have been quite a ride, like being in it together. Yeah, you're all young. Exactly. I mean, you must remember so much of your dad's career,

like the start. Did you go to all his gigs? No, he's too young. He was too young in Wales, you see? but when I was playing the clubs and everything Mark was only a kid but then when it's not unusual came out of course the press were

what Mark would tell you they were all after him in the playground you know too Oh no Do you remember it yeah? Well vividly it was a shocker Oh that's so horrible That's when your life changes you remember the day It was on St David's Day in 1965

So I was eight And all of a sudden that's It was amazing You hope for the best but you know It changes your life but here we are today look at that thank you for your patience

your call is important can't take being on hold anymore FIS is 100% online so you can make the switch in minutes mobile plans start at $15 a month certain conditions apply details at fizz.ca Do you love doing the voice?

I love it. Just kind of, what do you love about it? Well, I'm still in the business without singing. Yeah. Well, I sing sometimes. Yeah, but you've got an album out now. Well, yes, but you know what I mean? I'm sort of with musicians.

Yeah. You get a chance to go and have a bit of a sing as well. Yeah. But I can help young singers as much as I possibly can. Yeah. You know, and to try and give them some wisdom that people gave me. Yeah. When I was growing up, you know what I mean, you pick up information from, as you know.

I love it when you sing. You know, yeah. Oh, I love it. When you tell a story and you say, oh, well, when I was singing with Elvis. Yeah. Or when I was singing with, you know, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, yeah. He's sung with everybody, Jess. I want to know, are there any really memorable dinners with any of those people, Frank Sinatra, Elvis?

Did you ever have any dinners that we must know about on table manners? Yes. Are we allowed to know? Elvis, no, Elvis Presley, he didn't like to go out. Oh, you're kidding. Just because he was too famous? Well, he said that. I said, but Elvis, if you're going to have six fellas walking in front of you saying,

get out the way Elvis is coming. I said, it's not very, you've got to dress down. You've got to, you know, you've got to put a hat on or something. Oh, did he always dress up in those suits? Yes, but he loved. Oh, my God. You see, Elvis Presley loved being Elvis Presley. But he would say, oh, how do you do it, Tom?

You know, how do you go? I said because you do go unannounced. There are places. You've got to make sure where you're going. You can't go wandering about, of course, but it can be done. So he would have dinner in his suite, and we would sometimes eat up there. But he loved junk food, you see. Oh, really?

He used to keep a pizza under his bed. Oh, my God. Just in case he had munchies in the middle of the night. Oh, my God. That's a great. I mean, he's my kind of guy. I knew I like Elvis. A pizza under the bed.

Cool pizza is great But I was in Hawaii with him When I was in a way And he had pineapple on his pizza In 19609 And we went I went to his house Yeah

To hang out with him Because he was staying in the way And I was doing some shows there In 69 When I had my TV show So I went out to his house In the afternoon And we had hamburgers

Well that was like the big thing That he loved Yes Yeah So that was it You know I remember having lunch there hamburgers and salads and stuff like that

What's he handsome? Oh yeah Striking Striking I think that that's I mean he did sound different as well mind you But that became it was like almost an accident You know because he liked blues

Rhythm and Blues gospel music especially But they wanted him to you know What we're going to do with Elvis They didn't know because he loved a lot of things You know Had a gorgeous voice Yes so we happened to trip all right you know We're doing the first one

That's all right mama you know it was like that so um but he had a different sound but it was his look you see yeah it was his look he looked better than you think of the most handsome fella you ever met he was so beautiful yes you can't imagine and and and then he walks in you know what i mean in his in his day when he before he put on that weight which was a shame that they've got footage of him like that because he wasn't i knew him when he was you know young and like that but he didn't wear the best outfits then did he He loved, you know, he got into that, you see, that Vegas thing. That Vegas thing with the collar up and the shoulders.

I mean, he got married in Las Vegas, you know, before he started working there. So, you know, he did love Vegas. Did you have a residency in Vegas? No, I used to go, well, sort of. I would play there when Elvis was there at the same time. I'm Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis, you know, the Rat Pack and all in the 60s, late 60s, early 70s. I would do a month straight, one month per year.

two shows a night for a month straight your voice must have been unbelievable exhausted yeah I got nodsos on my vocal course because of it so anyway that was it and we were all there together so as far as food was a concern

I had to eat in I tell you what I used to have exactly I'm going to send you I'm making some Jewish penicillin Tom I'm making some this weekend because it's Passover and I'll send some to you

definitely I'm actually really hungry now can we get the Landshank. Do you want me to... I was looking forward to chicken in a pot or... Oh, I'm so sorry. I thought I was going to have a Jewish meal here tonight. No, I love lampshanks. I... Oh, tell me about Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Nice guy? Yeah, oh yeah. What did he drink? He drank bourbon and coke. And did you join him drinking? Oh, yeah. One night I'm walking through the casino in Caesar's Palace to go and see Sammy Davis. Yeah. Right? I was following him in.

He also sang really well. Yeah, oh, great singer. I mean, actually amazing. A nice Jewish boy. Yes. So I was going to go and see him. I was following him in. I was going to go into Caesar's palace after him.

So I'd go in a little bit early to see whoever was on. So I was going to, and I knew Sammy Deer is, you know, from 65. And so I went in there. This was about 1970, 71, somewhere around there. And so I'm working. walking through the casino, past this Galleria bar, which was a big bar in Caesar's Palace, on my way to see Sammy Davis.

And I hear Thomas, and I said, oh, that's Frank. So I turned, and he's there at the end of the bar, roped off, you know, nobody else can go in there. All right. And so he says, Thomas, come here, and he tapped the stool by the side of him. So I said, well, look, I'm going to see Sammy Davis. He's going to be going on anyway.

He'll wait. He said, well, I wouldn't want to be the one to hold his show up. No, no, he said, just a quick drink, you know, you won't be late. So I sat with him and I had a, he was drinking, I said, what are you drinking? He said, bourbon and coke. He said, that's what I like. Okay, great. So he had that, I can't remember what I had.

And so we was sitting there. And a young lady came past and said, oh my God, Frank Sinatra and Tom Jones together. Oh my God, like this, right? could I have a picture? She should come up with a little camera to take a picture of the both of it. And he said, Frank Sinatra said, if you want a picture

there's got to be a good one. So he calls the camera girl over that's working there in the thing and he said, this young lady would like a picture of Tom and myself so let's have it done properly. Not with that little camera

that you have, sweetheart, he said. And that was it. And I thank God that happened because I have the picture now. Oh, that's so lovely. A proper picture of the two of us at the bar. It would have been, you know, I wouldn't have had it otherwise.

So, yeah, that was it. So he was... Which music did you enjoy listening to? Did you like Frank Sinatra? Not so much as I liked Elvis Presley. But I learned to appreciate him more when I got older. Yeah, me too. His timing.

See, I was... Facing as well. Yeah. Exactly. But I was... Rock and roll began. I was 15 years old. You know what I mean?

It hit like a hammer, you know? So anything that wasn't rock and roll to me, when I was a teenager was nothing. So then you get older and that's why we call this album Surrounded by Time because it does make a difference

you see. When you get older you look at life in a different way all the different parts of your life so when I got into yeah when I got into my 20s 30s I was then starting to

realize how good Frank Sinatra did sing you know you got to listen to him to know how really well he sang. And so I got to appreciate that, you know, with the thing. But I went, this is ironic. I went to Elvis, right? And I'd recorded an album of standards, right?

Yeah. So he said, I got your latest album, Tom, right, okay? I love Elvis saying. On my life. And he said, but let me tell us to make. He said, if you don't mind. I said, no, I don't mind. He said, we leave songs like that to Frank.

You know what I mean? We leave songs. He said, we don't do those songs. I kind of love that, that he said, we. Did you feel like, like the greatest song? Yeah. So I thought, wow, you know, this is it. Then I see Frank, you know, another night, like that night when we were having to drink.

And he said, Tom, you can forget that rock and roll stuff. You know, you need, you could do great jazz, you know, records. They all wanted you in their gangs. Well, so I thought, what a situation to be in. Elvis Presley telling me to do more rock type numbers or big ballads as well. but not standards, you know, not what Frank Sinatra would be doing. Leave that to Frank Sinatra, he said. I said, well, I like doing them all.

And I thought I'm getting, Elvis is trying to pull me one way. Frank Sinatra's trying to pull me the other way. What a position to be in. What a predicament. Yeah. I wonder whether, because it seems like you were so loved by everybody, not only fans, but, you know. In the business. In the biz.

Yes, I was lucky. You were. Because he's nice. No, I get this, but I, I, I, I, And maybe I'm putting words in your mouth But for me, I've been with my husband since I was 18 And there's something that's quite grounding About having that.

And I wonder whether there was something about you That you were, yes, you were living in Beverly Hills, Bel Air, You were hanging out with Elvis. And frankly, you still had Linda there. Yes. And there was something quite grounding about that. Oh, sure. Well, she worked up, you know, when we were going to see Elvis Presley,

you know, Linda was with me nine times out of ten. and he said to me you're lucky Tom to have Linda because he said I fell in love when I was young and I was on the road a lot so she I didn't

you know we never went any further than that but he still thought of that girl he said that's the girl I wanted and I couldn't get her because she went off with somebody else because I was too busy doing my thing but you got married before fame happened right which is true

so then you realize my manage was solid you see before it's not unusual and that I think kept me going you know well I not think I know because sometimes I'd get a bit large you know what I mean

there were some Americans came over to the house we used to have on St George's Hill right so I had a snooker room up on the top floor and I'm playing snooker with this fellow from New York Burke Zanft who was a good Jewish man so he was up there

He's going to be doing passover. Exactly. Do you want to come to my Mac Mitzville? We'll get on to that in a minute. But yes, carry on. Yeah, so Bergzamp was over there. He was a plastics manufacturer. Yeah.

I got to know. He used to come to the corporate to see me sing there. So anyway, he's up... The Copacabana. Copacabana, yeah. Oh, my... I didn't even realise there's a real place. Oh, yeah.

I thought it was just a song. No, no. Anyway, okay. This is a... Wow. Which was owned by Jules Podell, who was again, Jewish. Okay. Yeah, we've got it wrapped.

Tom is quite amazing, like, Tom speaks like he's a Jew because we always talk about who's Jewish. The Jews just talk about, but I feel like you've got it. You're claiming them, yeah. That's why Jewish people go short next, you know. That's amazing. Exactly. So, anyway.

So, come on, the snooker on the penthouse snooker. You know, in the house, St. George's Hill, I'm playing snooker with... In Waybridge. In Waybridge. In Waybridge. Sorry, St. George's Hill. It's a posh place in Waibbon. Before we moved to the States.

Richard Lid. Oh, okay. Yeah. Before we, and John Lennon and Ringo Starr. So, we're playing Snooker up in the top room. And I supposedly got a bit large. This was in the early 70s. What's large to Tom Jones, though?

I need to know this. Well, I'm drinking a glass of Don Perignon champagne. And I'm smoking a big Cuban cigar. And I'm sort of saying, well, you know, Burke, when we were in the thing, and then, and then, and then, going on like this. I was getting a bit out of my pram, as we say. And Linda. And Linda said, just a minute.

You know what I mean? She's sitting there, you know, with some other people. And she said, just, just a minute. She said, you don't really think you're Tom Jones, do you? And I said, well, yeah, I am, Tom. No, she said, I married Tommy Woodward. As soon as you start believing that you are Tom Jones, forget it. Oh, it's your name, not Jones.

Thomas Jones Woodward. Oh, we never knew that. Yeah, yeah, we just chopped the Woodward off. excuse me so she would do that to me you see so I could not and I loved that because I realized

this girl I can't bullshit this girl you know what I mean and she will not take bullshit from me I can't there's no way around it and on my life when she died

I said to Mark because he was there we were in the hospital with her and everything and he said well you'll be all right you'll be okay I said no I said

your mother you see she used to keep me grounded now who's going to save me from me you know what I mean because you can get carried away you see like I started drinking a lot after she died because I thought oh the only way I'm going to get through this is be large it doesn't work

you can't do that so you've got to be real so you needed to come back to the UK to be with Mark to build your family so thank God Mark you know keeps me grounded and he does you try it no but honestly because You know, I say, oh, so he says, just a minute. You know, he's like his mother speaking to me, you know what I mean?

Just a minute, you know what I mean? Shall I just serve everyone up? Yeah, sure. Yes, please, ma'am. Yes, please. Wow. Just like Mom used to make. So how old are your grandchildren, Tom?

My grandson is 37. You're kidding. My granddaughter is 33. Good voices? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Would you say, get into the industry? Would you say just stick there?

If they wanted to. Yeah. Because I said to my grandson, he could be, and he's a good-looking fella, plays guitar, sings. Loves music, knows a lot about it. You know, he likes what he likes, and he doesn't like that.

So I said, when you give it a shot, I mean, I'll help you as much I can. If you want to, he said, I don't think I got the nerve for it. I love the saying around the house and everything But you said I don't think I'm cut out for it I said well it's a lot easier than you would think Once you make that first step

But you know at the beginning If you're looking at it from the outside You think how do those people do that So about your new record I mean when you do a Michael Kiwanuka Yes Cover I mean were you listening to Michael Or was somebody like

Were your grandchildren telling you listen You really need to listen to this Or do you consume a lot of new music as well No, Ethan Johns. Yeah, produced the Ethan Jones, yeah. He produced the original record that I've just done. Yeah. So we were playing music by different people.

Yeah. And have you heard this one? And I said, no, I know who the kid is. I've seen him, you know, on the Jules Holland show and everything. But I hadn't really listened to him. And then he played this song. And I said, wow, that's some song that I wouldn't mind I'm going to pop at that. You know, so he said, I think it was the only time Ethan did a song.

did a song with somebody that he had already recorded with somebody else. But he loved the song, he believed in it. And I said, yeah, yeah, we'll have a go at that. So we did. So right away, you see, you start thinking, I do anyway, especially not that I'm older as time has gone on, into the lyrics, you see.

So these things, you know, I won't lie. You know, you can't be, you've got to tell the truth. Things like that, you see. When I was young, I just wanted to sing. But then when you, when you, I think, hopefully, I've gotten more selective in the things that I'm recording now because of my age. And you think, wait a minute, I can't be trying to do something that I did in the same way as I did then. I can't. You know, you just can't.

So you learn and the knowledge that you get, hopefully, show. in your vocal performance and the material that you pick. So it's even more important to me now than it was then. And what's happening with touring? Will you tour? Oh, definitely.

With the new songs, I can't wait. Have you got anything in the diary? Well, at the moment, I think it's the Isle of Wight in September. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, in September, yes. But hopefully we'll be able to do things before then, but we've got to see how things go,

you know, with the situation that we're in. So, you could do like a Tom Jones special and like you could, I mean, I'm sure you've done plenty of them. But you could probably have, you know, Saturday night television a whole. I know it's not the same as having people in the audio. I mean, hopefully they would be able. I feel like you can do anything, really. Well, I mean, I'm still equipped like I was when I had my original TV show in the late 60s, early 70s. You know, anybody that came on, I could sing with them.

What fun. So that was it, that was an asset, you see. What was your favourite duet that you ever did then? Well, there was a few of them, Aretha Franklin. Oh, come, what, I'm amazing. What did you sing together? We did Seesaw. We did a bunch of things.

We did, like, a lot of things. But Seesaw being one of them. And Jerry Lee Lewis. Oh, wow, yeah, cool. Yes, because I was in the 50s, you know. He was the one for me. And Little Richard, you see. So I was doing duets with these people.

I'm looking across the piano. I bought them, because they bought. play piano and I thought my god I was buying your records when I was a teenager and here I am looking at you and singing with you it was unbelievable so all those people that uh Tony Bennett came on there you know and I started with him uh so yeah Sammy Davis you know there's a lot of people from different genres of music that I liked and I could do it did you ever feel intimidated no you just felt like you're like see he's got a voice no I know this but you know I mean...

No, I never did. Oh, man, I mean, I honestly could keep on asking you questions. Did you meet Prince? Yes, yes. And, like, did you share a meal with Prince? No, I spent a night with... Sorry, let's rephrase that. I didn't spend the night with him.

I was... After we did a show in Germany, in Coron, TV show, we got together afterwards. And he was very chatty. He wanted to talk to me. What did he want to talk to you about? All about the recordings and what was you like when you started recording.

Yeah. All about music, really. So I said, what happened to you? You know, one time I tried to talk to you, you know, and he said, that was then, this is now. What era was this? Was this like 90s, Prince? No, no, no, this was, uh, wait a minute, let me think.

Because it was after two, because I had sex bomb. Yeah. He was a bit ticked off for the show that I did in Germany. He was like a top of the pops in German. Why was he ticked off? Because he was a little bit out of favor at the time. He was, you know, he had slave on his, cheek and all that.

Oh, and he was pissed off that he hasn't. Exactly. So he was going through all that stuff. So he told me this afterwards. They said, Prince will not be doing

the TV show tonight. I said, oh, what's my? Is something wrong with him? We don't know. And I thought, oh, he might be ill then. You know, if you don't show up to do something,

you normally, you're ill. So we were staying at the same hotel. So I did the show, had something to eat, went back to the hotel to go to the cigar bar that they had there. and as we're walking in

his bass player Larry Graham was standing there and he said what are you doing Tom I said well I just did the show didn't I? I said I was Prince

is he Is he all right? And he said no no he's upstairs he's going to come down in a minute I said well why didn't he do the show then he said I don't want to get into it okay I said I'll ask him

when he comes down so he comes down he gets out of the lift and there was nobody in the lobby so I'm about to go into the cigar bar he's walking towards me So I said, how are you feeling? He said, I'm fine. I said, well, and how come he didn't do the show?

He said, because you topped the bill. Oh, my God. How embarrassing. And I said, I wasn't aware of that. He said, top of the pops is. You know, sex bomb is one of the songs. Yeah, of course. And it was doing really well, obviously.

Well, of course. Yeah. You know, it's number one all over Europe. So that's what ticked him off. So he said, I thought, no, he didn't swear. He said, you know, I'm not going to do it. I kind of love that he told you that. Oh, he did.

Because you talked. So I said, I wasn't aware of topping a bill. Yeah. So he said, anyway, he said, you come into the after show party? I said, well, you didn't do the show. He went to the after show. He said, well, I can go to the after show. I love.

Just because I didn't do the show. I said, well, if you're going, I'm going to just go and have a cigar in the bar there because, you know, you couldn't smoke. It started to close down a bit. So, but it was a cigar bar. So I said, I'm going to have a quick cigar. And, you know, he said, well, you know, We were going to be at such and such.

But had you recorded kiss by you? Yeah, yeah. I met him, it was his birthday, because we had the same birthday, June 7th, a different year, of course, but it was June 7th. So if anybody is born, I'd like to know if anybody else has

absolutely amazing voices that were born on June 7th, please, if anybody, yeah. So, Tom, we ask everybody on the podcast, if they were going off to a, an island, and they were about to have their last meal before they were going

and they just you know their perfect meal and it was a starter a mane and a pudding and drink of choice what do you think

would be in that in that meal starting with the starter or you can start with the put I don't know if you're a sweet tea well I love smoke salmon

oh me too so smoke salmon would be I like the grill you know I used to go to the Savoy Grill when I used to stay at the Savoy I love the Savoy Grove yeah so it would be

smoke salmon starter some kind of meat dish could be lamb shank like we're having now something like that I'm always chocolate for dessert chocolate dessert I love chocolate well I'm really glad we've done a passion fruit lemon curd roulette

but you know we've got chocolate that'll do okay fine so chocolate is your thing do you have it every day more or less what's your fave what's the one that you go for I like dark chocolate me too darling your spoons

thank you love thank you mum it's delicious got a real chew about it i like it it's good so tom we have two more questions to ask you yes you're not going to ask yeah we are karaoke yeah we are okay do you like karaoke in what respect do you ever go to a karaoke bar have you ever done it no if you were going to do it well i mean maybe this is a hard which song would be the one that you've gone to say i know but But like, which song would you go and sing? Well, see, 50s rock. I was a teenager in the 50s.

So any real Little Richard song, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Fat Storm and Chuck Berry, they were the ones. So any one of those songs you want to pop on, I can sing it. I have no doubt you can sing it. Well, I mean, I would know it.

Yeah. You know. And then Tom Jones, do you, Sir Tom Jones. Sorry. Do you get annoyed when people don't add the sir? No. No. What was it like getting knighted?

Wonderful. Who did it? The Queen. I had the OBE from the Queen and knighted by the Queen. Why? Can you not, who else does it? Charles sometimes does it. Oh yeah, the other members of the Royal Family, you see.

If she can't do it. But thank God both times that I was honoured, she was there. So, Sir Tom Jones. Okay. Do you think you've got good table manners? Good table manner? Yeah. I'm talking to you with my mouth full.

Don't worry I think you are the most perfect guest And I feel like we need to have you Kind of do a residency here Just so we can hear all the other stories That we haven't even got around to So I've got to try and torn it down to because I get cut it away No, you don't

This is what we live for This is perfect It's amazing So Tom Jones, thank you so much for coming on table manners Thank you for having dinner And thank you for telling us Your amazing stories And everyone go and listen to the new record

Thank you My pleasure. Next time, chicken soup. Well, he was a great guest. The story about Elvis. But his stories, every story was amazing. And I think we could still be listening to him because he loved... His son had shut him down. Because he's

His manager His son manager But yeah You're right The story about Elvis And the pizza Under the bed He really does

Have the most phenomenal voice still Gorgeous It's just outrageous There are few people of his age That can still sing As you expect them to And he does

Thank you to Sir Tom Jones For coming on And giving us With galing us with stories Absolutely We could have him back Jess I think And there'll still be

A few more stories We'll see you next week for another second happens. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore? Fizz is 100% online, so you can make the switch in minutes.

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