Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 130 | Jason Kendall Called Pitches From Left Field

Episode Date: April 13, 2020

Former Catcher Jason Kendall joined Jomboy, Jake, and Trevor Plouffe to discuss his stolen bases, the '06 Athletics, and calling a game from left field. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We are joined by a man who is known for his patience at the plate, but was just very patience with some technical difficulties. Former three-time all-star Jason Kendall. How you doing, dude? Good, guys. Yeah, the technical difficulty stuff. Trevor, you're a pretty good baseball player, but you're also a pretty good computer guy.

You've walked me through it. Yeah, that was wild. We appreciate you. How's quarantine going for you? we see the stash I can't hear Trevor now Trev probably just still himself muted

that's a that's his thing yeah I'm back okay all right all is good and I hope you guys are out there being safe and I dig the show and it's just one of those things

it's a crazy crazy time and there's so much unpredictability or whatever you want to call I know that's a word that is out there so you know just people just go out, stay, stay safe, stay inside. Yeah, we talk all the time about, you know, is baseball coming back?

What's it going to look like when it comes back? But in reality, nobody knows anything. And it doesn't matter if Rob Bannford wants to play baseball, it doesn't matter if the owners want to play, the players want to play. It's just, is the government going to let anything happen? So any, you know, there's a new proposal out today about doing the great fruit in the Cactus League and everyone's freaking out about that now. But like I said,

nothing's going to happen until we get this thing figured out and the government says, okay. So all these predictions are just that. They're just predictions. Without a doubt. And, you know, I had this conversation in a day that,

listen, you're better than players, the guys that have been there, they're going to be, they know what to do to get ready. It's going to be, and you know what? I don't know, Trevor, do you plan the Arizona Falling?

I did. It's not really that much fun. I was fortunate enough to play when the Scottsdale Scorpions had Michael Jordan. So at least once a week, I knew that there's going to be a crowd because everybody wanted to see Michael Jordan. But other than that, there's zero atmosphere. And it's amazing what the fans actually bring and the adrenaline that it brings you. I think the big league. If they can get started by July 1st, whether it be with fans or without fans, I think it'll be all right.

I mean, you're still looking at it maybe 70 games schedule. If it gets in that little area where there might be 40 games, the only thing that I personally can think of is that would be neat is it doesn't matter if the Yankees are supposed to win or the Dodgers, et cetera, et cetera. You might have, if the Florida Marlins or, you know, a low market team gets hot at the right time and can go out and put up some numbers, that would be interesting to me maybe. But I think more than anything, I'm worried about the minor leagues. is there going to be a minor league system?

What about the players around the bubble? What about the, you know, and then you can even take this to the trickle down. To where what about the high school seniors? Not only obviously the spring sports, but you're looking at their graduations and everything else. But I don't know the whole details of the Division I thing, but I know that they're giving all spring sports.

They're allowing them to, I guess it would be the seniors, to come back for one. more hurrah, which I truly believe they should. But now it's going to eliminate your mediocre players. I mean, the ones that are in high school that might have half a scholarship somewhere, wherever it may be, whether it be junior colleges or D1s, D2s. So I'm more worried about those guys.

And I say the minor leagues more than anything because these are the next generation stars. I agree. the rookies that might possibly make the big league ball clubs right now hopefully the training staff which i'm sure they they will and the weight and conditioning coaches will follow up and make sure that they're doing their routine but you know when you're 21 20 years old and this game's getting younger you think you're superman so when you get to the big leagues and you guys can ask Trevor it's a different ball game and so i'm more worried about the minor leagues because if say there is a 40 season game and I'm just totally throwing this out there.

I would assume that there would be no minor league reason. Yeah. Right now I think what they have suggested right now is having like a pool of players, like a 40 to 50 deep per team pool of

players and they would just keep the extra guys whatever the roster ends up being if it's 30 guys, if it's 35 guys the rest of the players would kind of just hang back and be ready to go. But as it right now, there is no minor league season plan They don't know what they're going to do. And I agree with you.

This whole thing has such a ripple effect on the entire industry. And it's going to be interesting to see how we move forward. We're going to move forward. The game doesn't wait for anybody. You know that. At least the union and the players associations are talking because that's not always the case. Yeah. So at least they're communicating and that might sound funny,

but it's actually really serious. At least they're communicating on, you know, trying to find a plan. Yeah, we kind of talked all about if, you know, the draft does go down to only five rounds or ten rounds. And those high school players who weren't top five round picks, but are pretty set on just playing ball and not going to college and didn't even apply. Like, they get, that's really scared for them. Jukos will probably be bringing in a lot of guys and get a lot more action. But the ripple effect there is crazy to think about. And no one's really even talking about that. But a lot of these high school baseball players, they're in a weird state of limbo right now.

It's unbelievable. I mean, even if somebody drafts you in the, you know, 28th round, give me my plan ticket in a can of Copenhagen and I'm gone. I mean, let me see, let me see what I can do. It really is now, but if it's going to be five, I heard more towards five, but it 10, whatever it is, you're going to weed a lot of players that, you're going to weed a lot of players out. And I guess if you have the mindset to where, all right, nobody's going to outwork me, nobody's going to out, if you have that attitude to keep working, working, working, I mean, maybe it's a good thing. I don't know. I just know that this game is a special, special game, and everybody wants to play it. And, you know, if you're fortunate enough, this is one thing.

Everybody thinks that their kid is, or they're going to go, gets the big leagues. It doesn't happen. You're not going to be the next Serena Williams, Derek G. leader or my it's not going to happen i mean if they're fortunate enough to get you know play high school ball fortunate enough to go and have a chance to play college and then if something happens you know get drafted which now it might i mean those 28th 29th rounders might not get drafted um i just hope that there's a plan beyond this year which it's uncharted waters you just don't know but i i think more than anything i worry about the the kid that in the minor league right now Well, A, I think there's still time for me to become the next arena, William, so I will check you on that.

And B, I know Trevor's eyes lit up when we start talking about this season getting a little weird and, you know, maybe 35-man rosters. Trevor kind of, he raised that eyebrow and he's like, I might still have it. If maybe your local Padres come up and they're like, hey, we need a guy to get on base who has a really nice mustache for 40 games. Do you still got that? well i'm going to tell you what first of all with your giddy up right now without a doubt you're on the right track to go you do the serrated way if you can play tennis um but yeah no it's my quarantine mustache but uh okay i don't know if that's that's uh it's it's cute i this is what i said about the 50 man rosters i said there there's no doubt in my mind because because jace i'm

i'm only a year removed from playing there's no doubt my mind i'm still a top 1500 player in the world. So that's 50 guys a team. I feel like I could still go out there and be a top 50 guy. But once you start going down to the 40 and it's 1,200, I kind of went that route last year. I didn't get put on any damn 40, man. So I know I'm kind of in between that 1,200 and 1,500 range.

So if I'm going to go, now is the time because another 6th, I'm going to be out of that 1,500 range. There's no doubt in my mind. If they're going to do that, I go to the cages right now or I'd have your wife throw you some BP soft toss or hit off a T because there's something about a veteran presence. And I'm being serious if you're actually really being serious about this. There's something about a veteran presence as a catcher or as a pitcher or whatever. I mean, being out of a year, it's not, I mean, that's not that big of a deal.

You'll catch up in two seconds because your body is trained to do that. Give one more shot. If they have a 30, I mean, because they're going to have to expand the rosters. I mean, they have to. So, hey, yeah. I mean, plus it's nice out there. Go out to the park and get some little balls or whatever. I am like 100% joking about it.

Just to be clear. You'll get back. I put something in the back of your head, though. Because you're like, hey, honey, then go make a quick $500,000 next two months. You'd be like, get out of here. I'm having too much fun now. But here's the thing. We brought you on because we want to talk about you.

The game, we don't know anything about the game. We want to talk about Jason Kendall, your career. And, you know, I knew a lot about you because for some reason, when I was very impressional, 11, 12, 13 years old, I feel like that's when kids really kind of get into baseball and big leaguers and know who guys are. At least that was my experience. My guys were you, Charles Johnson, and Mike Piazza.

I had something for catchers. I don't understand what it was. And you guys were all kind of, that's 96, 97 seasons. You guys were all going off. And I keep, I'm looking at your numbers, looking at your numbers. And you put up some crazy stats, man.

I, you know what? I had fun. I had fun. Do you know all your stats? Because I got them up right here. I don't, no, I don't really look at them. But, I mean, I know that I had some hits. And I was a different type of catcher.

I wasn't you know I didn't hit for power which is crazy because I can hit a golf ball a mile but I couldn't hit a ball over the you did but you did hit for power so you got 2200 career hits that's ridiculous and then when you go back and start looking at this I mean your OPS plus is is really nice and I know like back

back in 96 97 98 you guys probably weren't looking at OPS plus it probably wasn't even around but you know the more and more these stats come out that kind of are able to take away from the counting stats from traditional stats, you put up some excellent numbers. I mean, that's why you're, you know, you have a 42 career war? Do you look at those numbers, Jason, all?

I don't know, I don't know any of this stuff. I don't know it. It's setting you in a positive light. Let me tell you that, Mike. Well, I guess that's a good thing. But, you know, I'll never forget it. I had to change my swing probably in about 2000. Jimmy Anderson was pitching it was in April, and he threw a shinker down and away.

Kind of one of those guys did it cut. and just snap my thumb. I had to change my swing after that. I ended up playing the season. I lost all my gap to gap power, and I became kind of a punching judy hitter hit into the situation. You know, run first hit the hole.

Hit and run guy. And I had no problem with that because I was the one who, I mean, they wanted me to have surgery right then and there. I didn't. Everybody thought was my ankle that did, the ankle's fine. ankle was probably stronger than the other one.

It was my, it was literally it was my thumb. It was mashed potatoes at the end of the season, and but which hand was that? My left hand. Was it from, was it from catching or was it from hitting? I was going to take it down away and he did ball cut and just for it and you know,

I'll never forget that guy's name but Jimmy Anderson. But obviously it wasn't as far as just didn't know where the ball was going. So I mean, but that was where I really had to change my swing and I had to basically let go of every time I made contact, let go with the bat with my hand. instead of having both hands, you know, falling through. So, I mean, you know what?

And what I tell these guys now and Trevor, I was fortunate enough to be behind the scenes with the Royals from basically your great years, you know, 2010 through 17 or 16. And I would always, and it was a different, it was so good for me. When I played, I didn't, I knew who the owners were and who the GMs, but I didn't communicate with them. I was so locked in on what I had to do that day to help the team win. And whether it be something, you know, bunting, catching, calling a game,

whatever, getting the guy over on second base. I was so, but I got to see the front office site. And I was on the field before games, going over scattering ports. And I will say this, 2000, when did you have 20-something bombs? Was it 15 or 16? I had 22 and 15. Okay, so it was two thousand. Can confirm.

Thank you. It was somewhere around there, and they were all, you know, it wasn't Mower. It wasn't. And so I would go on a, you watch, watch him. This is who doesn't beat you. Because every catcher should have a game plan going back to, there's one guy, maybe two, that don't let him beat you. Well, the Royals hadn't been in the playoffs since 85.

And, I mean, obviously being in the Central, we played you guys quite often. And that was when I started noticing him like, don't know. Screw Maurer. Screw everybody else. Do not let this guy beat you because he's the one back there. So I got to know a lot about you from behind the scenes. But I guess that all being said is it was so good for me to do that because I didn't know. I didn't know what they did upstairs.

And there's so much analytics. There's so much. And I'm a pretty straightforward guy. I mean, I kind of tell it like it is. and, you know, general manager would be like, hey, what do you think? Yes, yes, yes, yes, Jason, what do you think? No, I think he stinks.

Get him out of here. I mean, I was pretty straightforward. I think I always have been. But it was neat for me to do that to see the way it operates up there because there's a lot of stuff that goes on and these guys, right? They're right now, your GMs, your assistant teams. They're working their tails off right now trying to not only figure out when they're going to play. And I'm talking about scouts and everything.

And right now they're busting their butts trying to figure out, okay, well, what kind of roster are we going to have? Is it going to be as a 30, 32, 29? So it was neat to me to that because now I got the whole full baseball part of it. But I just remember you, those years because we played you guys 19 times or whatever it was. Yeah, we played a lot.

And it was the Royals, man, they went from playing us and we were kind of, we were the low man on the totem pole in the AL Central at that time. Both teams were. Then all of a sudden, man, they got,

Hosmer came up and he started to develop a little bit, Moose and Sal and Gordon, and then the bullpen came and that changed everything for you guys. I totally remember that 14, 15, it was like,

that was when bullpen started, and I'll say this word, it became weaponized. Was that a doubt. And it was like, if you didn't have a lead going into the, fifth or six inning against the Royals in that time, you were going to lose.

Because your starter has to go five innings. You weren't going to score against Kelvin. Luke Coch Averts for 98. Yes. So that was an interesting time. And that's pretty cool. I knew you were back there, but then to think now, you know, you worked with Sal, who was one of my favorite catchers to watch.

You worked with Buterra, who we just had on the show last week. And now I can kind of see your presence with those guys. And I could see how you influence them for sure. You know what? It was a fun time to watch. It wouldn't, I mean, I got the American League championship ring, and I have the World Series ring. Never got one as a player.

As far as I made it, was to the ALCS in 2006 with the Oakland A's. But it's not the same as a player. But just watching these guys gel in that 2015, 2016 year, was it was neat to see because they did what they're capable of doing. And I think if you look back with the exception of the Astros over the World Series teams, they do what they're capable of doing. They get guys over. It makes me sick to my stomach with a one-one tie in the eighth inning, say,

and you get a lead-off guy, and you got your right-handed hitter, hooking balls in the left field. Play the game. It makes me sick to my stomach. but you know you have to learn to change with generations and and I completely understand that but if you look back at the team once again excluding the Houston Astros all the teams have done those things they've all done the little things and obviously when you get to the bullpen they got that too when when you go to the front office with the royals and you see the game

from the different side of things and all that it seems like you embraced a lot of it and found a lot of an interesting. Was there anything you flat out rejected that they were looking at, like an analytic or a way of thinking that the front office had? And you were like, no, that doesn't matter at all. That's a great question. And yeah, I did. And there's certain things that in my mind, there's great things about analytics. There's great things about your old school. You need to learn everything the analytics are doing right now is just the way Other people, okay, my spin rate. How many times did the current ball spin?

Okay, well, if he hung it, it's going to get hit. I don't care how many times it's fun. If he's down in the zone, you're going to swing and miss. It's so true. It doesn't matter about what the spin rate is. Now, I use the analytics. You know, players are creatures of habit. And, you know, whether they know it or they don't know it,

but I don't know, say whoever steals 50 bases a year, they usually have 75% of their bags on, a certain count, say 1-1. So those are times where you might, as a catcher, slide step, you might do whatever. So I love the, you know, obviously you have your first pitch swingers, and I can sit here and talk this all day, but it's just the lingo.

It really is just the lingo. They call spin rate. Well, no, that was a good curveball. I don't care. How many times it was spun? If it's hung to a big league hitter, it's going to go a long, long way. And I'll never forget.

Somebody goes, oh, this guy had a good spin rate. This is maybe four years ago. And I'm like, okay, get your spin right out of here. He's one of the guys upstairs or up top. And I go, oh, my God, look at the guy that's on the bottom of the list. His fastball didn't have a good spin rate. Didn't he won the Cy Young last year? His name's Clayton Kershaw.

So, I mean, there's certain things that can, but the lingo is the same. So I think some of the analytics are great. I truly do. And I think some of the old school stuff. But now you learned it's just a lingo. It really is. We had a whole show on that, and I was trying to explain, like, because when people watch baseball now, a lot of times the guys in the booth, they're old school guys.

They talk about, you know, how the game was when they played. And they get really frustrated with these new terms, these new analytical terms. And what I keep saying to people, we had a whole show on this. I'm like, these terms, that's all they are. This is just a different word for what you already know. So, yeah, a high spin rate guy. On a four-scene fastball, high spin rate, all that meant to me when before this term came out was that his ball had life on it and it kind of rose. The guys lived at the top of the zone.

Verlander has been doing that forever. So when you face Tim, he said this guy's got late life, up in the zone layoff, it's going to continue to go. It's hard to get on top of that ball. Stuff like that. It's really easy if you just explain it like that. Now, Trevor, I ask me this question. When you dug in and you got your toll, you're right, you're thinking about a guy. spin rate or you think you better not be because you have zero chance now i agree it's all that stuff

he did to prepare before the game but when you get in the box you just you're straight and see the white thing to hit it yeah i mean obviously have you know you know tendencies who your face and etc etc but it's i mean i don't i don't i will say one thing about um the analytics thing that i don't like i don't care if you played little league high school um college whatever at least you played one thing that I will say this about a player is somebody who has never played never played a game it's people like the resumes and when I say resumes and I'm talking about like yeah you play at least you played ball and so these some of these guys that come in who have never

even touched the baseball couldn't throw it you know ten yards they're ended up running the the show which is which that's the one thing that bothers me all that stuff. And that's just the way the game is now. You know, you have to change with those times, I guess. But the players know that stuff without a doubt. They do. You know, I think that players, when I think of guys like that, like you're saying, guys that are very analytically driven, we see that in the front offices everywhere now. It's basically like, give me an Ivy League grad in here who's good with numbers. And let's put them in. And I think what they do, because they don't have the feel for the game, necessarily. I think that what they can bring is those numbers that jump out. They can find numbers that they jump out that you can use. So that's what I would always look for when I was prepping was, is there a number, is there a count that jumps out where this guy throws X pitch 70% of the time? Or is there a count that I'm struggling in? One of the things that I learned with the Phillies, they brought up, they're like, hey, you are, you're too passive in these hitters

counts. You need to be more aggressive than hitters counts because that is, where you're going to get your slugging up. That's where you're going to have your extra base hits. So that was something I never really even thought of. But, you know, some we'll call them a nerd. Some numbers nerd. Right. Some nerd.

Some, yeah. Certain organizations. Yeah. So. And that's good. And you're a power hitter. And that's, that was. But I mean, also, and that's great advice.

But also, I mean, you know, you're going to swing regardless. And obviously the scoreboard dictates everything. Yeah. You're losing 8-0 and you got a 3-0 count, you're not going to swing. But that's where, you know, some of theics get, and then they try to throw it in your head with some of these, the younger kids. And like I said, you're up to thinking like, okay, well, Bob over there told me not to, you know, and that's where you mess these kids up. And that's something awesome that Philly brought to you, that you could take on and pass on to whoever.

Yeah, you have to be able to weed through the numbers. That's what I kind of tell everybody. Absolutely. Don't be overwhelmed by the numbers. Find something that works for you and that's it. You don't have to, like when they send you over a full packet, just let it go. A mediator between your old school guys and your analytic guys combine the two because they're both good. They really are.

And there won't be any of this crap that goes on anymore. So we seems like they're trying to do with the new managers, you know, by bringing in these young managers like, boom. and Ross and Tingler and Padres. It seems like that's who they're searching for as a manager now is now that intermediate between the stats and the player and trying to understand like, hey, this is why you're sitting today or this is what we think, you know, and it seems like that's what they're looking for in new managers. It's totally different than, you know, back in the 70s when managers were putting

hit and runs on every single inning and calling for Bunce, like every single elder at bat. There's a lot less like field managing going. out it seems like at least now. Oh, without a doubt. And everybody's scared of up top. And nothing, not getting, Boone's done an unbelievable job, and I'm sure Rosco will too.

So I don't want to, but I mean, a lot of, some of these guys, and I'm not saying either or are, they're yes guys. And there is, I know for a fact, certain, I know for the fact that certain managers, when they went into interview, were like, hey, do you care if the lineup is,

written and on your desk before, you know, before you get into the ballpark. And certain guys say yes. I'm going to tell you what. If you're going to have me as a manager, I'm doing it my way. And listen, I know how, you have to know how to treat people, bottom line. And this goes back to what your parents told you. You treat people the way you want to be treated. And you treat them with respect.

It truly, truly goes back to that. And it's a different era. I get it. Let them have fun. Go ahead. But, you know, as long as you get your work. and you do what you're supposed to do, go out and do it. I would love it.

And, you know, I've had a couple opportunities. And I'm very fortunate to play in an era where, you know, I watched my father go through, you know, went through a lockout and two strikes played in the big leagues as well. And, you know, he came home and had to work UPS. He came home and had to work instructions. So I really never saw it. But those guys fought to where we were fortunate enough to make the money that we made. And I always told myself that if I get out and I'm not going to miss my

kids years of high school, little, whatever it may be, soccer. And because he, my old man wasn't there for all that stuff. And Trevor and I were fortunate enough to make a good enough living to where we can sit at home and hang out and it's all great. But so that's what I'm doing right now. But I mean, I tell you what, if I were to manage, I would completely go outside the box. Run around first and second, no outs. You got the guy that can handle a bet.

Put a hit and run on. Yeah, what do you got to do? You got to hit a ground ball of third base. He's covering. I honestly would love to see that. I would love to look it up, like, how many hit and runs were put on last year without the pitcher. Like, pitcher had gone.

How many hit and runs were actually put on last year in the big leagues? I bet it's less than 15. Without a doubt. All the managers do right now is look like this. And they know the camera's on them. We're mad. We're mad. that's all they do.

I mean, I can't say all of them. I mean, because you have to get 25 grown men with different personalities to go out and play. So I can't say that. I mean, that's wrong for me to say that, but there are definitely certain yes guys out there. But, and I think that, once again, with the exception of the Astros,

go back to the last 10 World Series, the manager was able to get their players to do what they're capable of doing. And they did put a lot more hitting run. I guarantee you there's more, hitting runs put on in the playoffs last year, then there were the whole season, just like Trevor just said.

Yeah. That is something that we, that's funny to think about, because baseball comes back. Baseball, like real old school baseball comes back in the playoffs, because runs are at a premium. You know if you score one, the momentum shifts,

and all of a sudden, it totally changes the game. But I will say that. I bet I don't think there's one manager in the big leagues right now that writes his own lineup. Not one. No, no. Yeah, Terry.

You think Terry? You think he does? I think Tito's like the last one. Maybe. You know, even Bob Melvin and Oakland doesn't write his own lineup. So. And that's one thing about a player,

which is completely awful, is when you are going to give certain guys days off, and when you are going to, and hopefully this happens, I mean, like one of your utility players, you know, hey, you know what, you're going to go out and face Verlander. we're going to give so-and-so you better let them know the night before so they can mentally get prepared

and if that's if everybody's right in the line about which i i kind of agree with you um i know for a fact that after games the GM manager come down they have conversations and now i'm usually out of there by then or when i was still with so i don't know what else was talked about but you better let everybody know whether you have a day off or or utility guys know if they're playing. That's something that I hope goes on. Yeah. Something that we love is that the game does have a way of leveling itself out naturally.

And I think some of the stuff you're talking about is going to come. I think I'm like you. I get infuriated. There's a light hitting guy up, and they've got one of those new righty shifts on them. And it's like, dude, if you just slap it through the hole, you're going to hit eight home runs. this year, like, but you could have a base hit and keep it going, but that's for another thing.

And I think what Trevor said, we got to keep this on you, dude. And we, I want to talk about the other side because, yeah, I mean, you've got some awesome OBP stuff and the hits and everything is crazy. You were also a stud defensive catcher. What, have you watched kind of the evolution of the catching game? And I mean, the answer is yes, because I, you, you were doing special assignments for the royals and things like that. But what have you seen change in the catching game? And what, What do you like about it? What do you hate about it? Or is it kind of the same bullshit?

Like, I mean, pitch framing has always been around. We just have new metrics for it now. I don't, I don't, I hate the word pitch framing. Just catch the ball words. Okay. But so, so if you look at, and there's so many different things that go into it. So say Joe West, who's been around for a hundred years, it's behind the plate, and you're going to pull this where, you know,

you're, what I'm afraid, he's not going to give it to you. Now, the younger guys that, that I don't know, they might because they know that that's, that's, it's the new generation person. So you better know your personnel who's going to be behind the plate, who's not, et cetera, et cetera, what you can't. But for kids, like when I teach the kids, kids, what, how to catch, I just catch the ball, pretend it's an egg. The softer the hands you have, the better soft, soft, soft and soft.

I can't stand that. but it also depends. Some umpires are, at least they're getting graded now, but they've also taken away a lot of just the pure baseball part of it. But, I mean, they have to be accountable as well, as well as the players.

But I always look who's behind the plate. If you have a guy that's been in the big leagues for five, six years, umpiring, he's not going to give this stuff. If you got like maybe a one or two year guy, he probably will. I'll guarantee you right now,

Joe West, I mean, I caught in front of him forever, is not going to give the guy that. So, I mean, but it's to each his own. The way I don't, I don't like the word pitch framing because it means that. Did I ever do that, maybe kind of trying to call it to get a strike? But when you are going to teach somebody how to catch, just say soft hands, catch the ball. Don't go out and get it. Don't just wherever your arm is, catch the ball. catch the ball as soft as you can because it's such an easier way to to explain to whether it be

you know kids from college high school in the big leagues because trust me a lot of these kids in the big leagues everybody is scared of these kids are scared of these guys in the big leagues because they're making a way more money than then the you have to have that that coaching staff or at least somebody be like no I don't care who you are what you make you look like a jackass behind the plate just catch the ball and get off your damn and running around. You got guys on a knee with a runner on third base now. I mean, you can't have that if you want to be a perennial gold glove or if you want to win.

I was going to ask you about that. Val Perez and meat butted heads every day. Every day we're not out of it. Yeah, I was going to ask you that. That's something I like to ask. So we've had a couple different catchers on. And we talk about the low strike. trying to get that low strike in and you've seen the guys get on their knee and then kind of

show the target but as the pitcher's you know in his windup they drop the glove to the ground and then they try to come back up with it are you because that's that is like no it's all every single catcher is doing that right now Trevor you would be surprised on how many pitchers actually rely on your target it's it really is it's unbelievable so a lot of guys I mean, they come, be ready to throw. And then you're, so now their head's going like this. I mean, it's, and now you've got the umpire. Now, if I'm hitting and I'm moving my head,

hitting's the hardest thing to do in all sports. And I'm moving my head, and I hope you guys can see this. What's the ball doing? Yep. The ball's doing that. So you can do your head. It's the same thing with umpires. If you're going down, up and down, up and down,

their eyes are moving up and down, and you're not going to get the calls that, that, you know, those borderline pitches. You're just not going to get them. And as a pitcher, your head's supposed to stay still. So now you're going, oh, it's just, there's, listen, you have to have pitchers are the most important part in the game, but some of them are very sensitive. There's a lot of people that are very sensitive. And you have to learn how to, you know, who to kick in the butt, who not to.

But there'll be pitchers that don't like this. This right here, up and down, up and down. Not only does it screw up the pitcher because I'm not saying every one of them, but a lot of them. but it's the guy behind you who's calling him, he's not going to give you. If you're moving all over the place, he's not going to give you those borderline pitches. Yeah, I mean, you were known as a guy

that pitchers wanted to throw to. I mean, that's why you played so many damn games. When you retired, you caught the fifth most games in history. That's a lot of games. So, you know, we talk about old school, we talk about new school. you embodied what a catcher was. I mean, a guy that was out there all the time,

handled the pitching staff, guys wanted to throw to you, and now I think catchers are kind of getting away from that, and it's more about their personal framing stats, rather than does a pitcher feel comfortable throwing to me. And I think, like you said, pitchers are the name of the game. If pitchers aren't comfortable, you're not going to win that game.

So I've always said, like, you've got to have a guy you feel comfortable with, And if a catcher is solely focused on stealing a strike for you and making sure his pitch framing statistics are better, I think it's going to end up going back completely the other way and getting rid of all that. And no one's going to worry about pitchframing. And it's like, we need our pitchers to feel comfortable. That's what we need.

Bottom line, I'll tell you a funny story about, and I can't think of the guy's name. I know you speak the white socks. I know with the Braves now. Flowers? Help me. Who? Flowers?

Towers. Flowers? This is the front office story that just made me laughing. And so he got a pass ball. And he gave it a pass ball. Well, the ball hit off his glove in the air, and it was a pass ball. And he goes, well, you know what? He sends a letter to Major League Baseball in our Major League, our guy,

saying, like, that was not my pass ball. It was a wild pitch because he crossed me up. And I'm sitting in. I'm not a big Flowers fan by the play. And the next year, he's the best framing catcher. He's the guy that goes up and down, up and down, up and down. And you get dizzy. But I'll never forget when he sent that letter in, I was like, you've got to be kidding.

So you are so right. Oh, that's because that one, it doesn't matter. If you want a gold glove, first of all, the coaches vote on it. If they like you, they're going to vote. And half of them get the ballots. Right after BP, they're tired. They're all old. They want something to eat.

And they're like, hey, bat boy, can you fill out my gold glove thing? And it doesn't matter. And that's honestly, goodness. And the bat, I'm like, oh, here you put it, and then give it to the PR guy. And so, I mean, obviously, there are certain, you know, gold glovers out there, but it doesn't matter. If a passball, if you have three pass ball, four pass ball, five pass ball, you can have 20 pass balls.

If you're hitting 300, you're going to get it for the most part. And a lot of the other coaches will go, yeah, who won it last year? Just write down whoever wanted it last year. That's why you see a lot of these guys getting gold gloves over and over and over and over again, because these coaches getting off BP. They've got to get dress ready, go have their meetings with the pitchers or whoever it may be. So one pass ball is not going to, there's no reason to write a letter to the commissioner's office, as Flowers did, and say, you know what, he crossed me up. Well, first of all, if you crossed you up, it is your fault.

Because, I mean, even if you guys weren't on the same page, it ball hit your glove. I know. A lot of players are soft. I always knew that when I went out, even if I was banged up, and if I went out to, I knew I could do something. Even when I was awful, my last five or six years, I knew there was something that I could do to help win a game. And that's what, whether I'd be calling a game, and I knew I knew I couldn't hit you more. So I'm like, I better to learn. I mean, I studied. I worked just, two easy things. I just remember going back to Maur. Okay, well, the great ones, okay, say Joe Maur had a, had a two one knock off of Zach Granke three months ago, and it was a change in. Well, three months later, he's in Kansas

City, say, and he gets in a two one count, what's he looking for? Those are the, that's what separates the great ones. And I'm just using him as an example, because this is actually what happened. And so I knew that. And I did my homework. And I had this, I couldn't tell you what, I couldn't tell you how to do my kids' homework, but I could tell you what I threw Todd Helton 20-something years ago in a two-two count. But the great ones, you're 300 hitters, they remember. And I'll never forget. Mauer came back up and I busted them in, like that BAP's in the stands. That's, and they're throwing helmets. And I love my. And I love that. that. That was what was cool about me for catching.

But like I said, when I was awful, there was always something that I knew. And that's why I played. I loved it. And Trevor, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is such a short window. You're playing career. I mean, I played, well, I say 16s. I got paid for the 16th, but 15 years,

and it won't buy it in two seconds. And that's what I tell you. It does seem that way. You played, I mean, you played almost double what I played, and I feel the same way. I mean, I'm looking at your numbers now. And you weren't horrible your last five or six years. I'm just going to tell you that right now. 2008, which was your, you read two years after that.

You put a two-nine war up. You don't care about war. I went a year in Oakland without hitting a home run. And it was awful. Let me say. So did I. 2005. Off the wall and like, oh, someone, just let them just get out of the park.

Hey, my goodness. You talked about how you got. beat up with the, your thumb got injured. And everyone knows catchers take beatings and all that shit. But you got beat up in the batters box too. You had, what,

how many, five seasons, six seasons with more than 20 hit by pitches. You led to league a year, two years back to back with 31 hit by pitches. Well, what was going on there? Is that the scouting report on you?

Is that, I mean, always been pitched me in. And it started getting so bad that the trainers, uh, I started getting these big old contusions on my left. I mean, I learned how to do it.

I mean, I would rather, take one in the bicep as opposed to trying to get out of the way, breaking and rib being out six weeks. So they made me put an elbow pat on and I'll never forget because the first day I went off for four with it and I'm wearing that anymore. And I got it the next day. It was just like, my arm, the arm looks sweet. It was huge, but it was not because

bicep was big. So I ended up wearing it again and I learned how to use it. Now, the scouting report was, yeah, throw me in, you know, run something in on his hands. And it was too far in. Yeah, it was just one of those things where I got hit a lot. But that way it was all I'd do with the scouting report and I'd rather take one off the, um, the isp and still be able to play except by having a broken rib. But I'm not going to lie. I could I figured out how to use that elbow pad pretty good. I got a I got a play. I want to throw this up. See, tell me if you can see this on your screen. Because this is a absolutely. I can see it. Okay, because this is a fun play of

yours out at the plane. Look at you go. What went through my mind, I couldn't tell you. I don't know. I was just like, oh, oh, oh, jump. Because there, yeah, look at that. Now I take my whole bag. Look at that.

I mean, that is a fun freem free free reign for baseball. And then I had another one. In the, in my basement. Oh, yeah, it's a great one. Just improv. And then I, there's another play at the plate. That's even funnier here, which is this is a walk-off run you scored in. Push pause real quick because I'm going to tell you what.

This is a lesson. If you guys, Trevor, you have lessons or whatever. The main thing, and nobody does it even in the big leagues. And my old man, Thomas, a long time ago, you never take your eyes off the ball, ever, ever. And I literally tell all the little league kids that I had, I don't care about because you never know what's going to happen. And so that was honestly, and this was a game. before this was the officer break game and we were tied with the Angels

and I want to say this was Rodriguez's in so it had to be the ninth inning or 10th inning and so you don't ever because you just don't know what's going to happen and honestly you can watch you can see stuff like this in literally games twice a game

oh yeah so if anyone let's play it so there's going to be a replay but Krod on the mound just doesn't catch the ball. I go back. Here it is.

He was mad because the ball was probably a strike and the empire called it a ball. Oh yeah, that is a nice pitch. Everyone's pissed off. Molina throws it back. And yeah, he just didn't squeeze it. Oh, that's good stuff right there. Chubby, okay.

For the walk-off. Yeah, and I mean, that A's team, like Trev said, that's a pretty fun squad you had there for a couple years. Is Moneyball your favorite movie? your least favorite movie. Least, I wasn't there for those years. I do remember when I went back and I saw Billy, they were filming like at noon and I was seeing all the clubhouse guys and everything.

You know, Brad Pitt, they're out of the stadium. I'm like, how big is your head now, Billy? Oh, my gosh. I mean, not only do you think you did this whole analytic, but you got Brad Pitt playing you? Yeah. I've said that too. There's, I mean, that is, you should, they should not have done that.

They should not have given Billy Brad Pitt playing it because for, he's not even around anymore. where he's trying to like find some soccer. I mean, he's still obviously, his name's on the team, but he's doing something with soccer. And he was, oh, big Brad Pitt played me, which, you know what, good for him. When I was there, I only played there for half a season,

but they side me and I go and spring training, I'm going in to go get some work done. I see someone sitting on the table. I'm like, that's not a player. And it was Billy, and he would just, he just walked in there and he would just plop down on a training table. He'd get work done, but, hey, man, I kind of got a game here in a couple of hours.

I don't care if you're starting pitchers there, getting ready to get a rub down. Brad Pitt played me. Let me go before him. It's how it was. It's how it was there. You're right. I was there for two and a half years. You're right.

I will say that 2016, that was the best team I've ever played on. And I still, to this day, say we had the best team out of everybody. And we ended up sweeping Minnesota. and the Tigers and Yankees played all five games. We had five days off at the Coliseum and just sat there, you know, taking BP, obviously, at the Coliseum, you know, I mean, it's just like nobody's in the Steve's like, and then Tigers came in and just kicked our butts. We got such a good team, though. I want to ask you about that team because, as you're saying, I mean, it's a great team, but it's also, I mean, that pitching staff has a bunch of video game dudes that, like, you kind of dream of catching. like how do you how do you resist calling that zito curveball like not every other pitch how how was it

catching those guys or who was your favorite to catch on those teams or maybe all time no that was the best stuff in all the the best guy the the the i can ask us a lot to the was the best stuff at one point that i've ever caught was richard and it was yeah he i mean he was throwing a hundred and he had he didn't even know what it was he called a chance he changing it, but it was like a slider. It was like a palm ball, but it ended up. I mean, at 90, he had a fork ball. It's like a knuckle ball. He was probably out of one year, the best stuff I've ever caught. I mean, it's hard to catch. I can only imagine how hard it is to hit. So, I mean, that team, I mean, you had Zito, Dan Heron, Hardin, Joe Blanton, Esteban

Eliza, who's now in jail for drug smuggling or whatever. for trucks. I mean, it kept, it was just like, you knew you had a shot to win every night. And it's fun as a player when you go, and I was on a lot of bad teams. So myself, being there in that 2006 scene with those guys, I'm like, we just need to score a couple runs. And, you know, Frank Thomas, Milton Bradley, who was awesome, because he just didn't know what was going to happen, who was going to come in. Hey, guys. And the next day, you wouldn't say a word.

And I got the biggest kick out of that. Cotsay and myself, we're putting hitting runs on ourselves. Because whoever was managing, I mean, oh, well, so we were, Copsay and I ran the team. We were, hey, hit right. Yeah, who cares to swing it? I mean, it was so much fun as a player. I mean, Bobby Crosby, Mark Ellis, Eric Chavez, Jay Patent came over.

Nick Swisher, who's another treat. I mean, it was just a fun team. But I think we had too many days off in between at the end. Yeah, that's never good. When you have those layoffs, it doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, you want to rest a little bit. Maybe a day is good. When you start going three, four, five days?

I mean, it's definitely a disadvantage. If you guys, like you said, you swept the twins, then you had to wait around for the other series to finish, that's never good. No, I mean, if you're fortunate enough to get to the playoffs, you don't want any time. Because your adrenaline kicks in and it doesn't matter how banged up you are,

you're gonna go out and play, because there's nothing more exciting. It took me 10 years to get there, and it was everything and more that I remember I let off for the A's, and no antenna struck me out. I never let go of my bat. My bat goes flying over to the first base dugout, just in the Metro Dome, but I was shaking.

And I don't know what I'm talking about. Like that first at bat you have in spring training where your body's not in baseball shape, and your legs are knee. are shaking. That's how I felt that first was bat in the playoffs. I mean, it was that cool. That's awesome.

Talked about doing whatever it needs to do to win. As a catcher, you were also speedy on the basis. You basically have the record for most steals by a catcher. You do have it in the modern era. Everyone else from like the 1800 and whatnot. Is that something that you took pride in?

Was that just you finding the perfect time to run back when you were stealing 20, 20 bags of game, were you a legit speedster in the game, or was it more just being a smart base runner? I mean, I was definitely faster. I mean, everybody thinks the, when you think of a catcher, everybody kind of thinks of Engelberg,

you know, the snickers hanging out of his pocket. And, you know, there are certain guys that I'm not the biggest guy. You know, you go with Mike Lieberthal, Brad Osmiss, and, you know, even today, Russell Martin. There's a lot of guys, and I'm just trying to throw out names that are, that are, you know, not as big. You don't have to be that big, old backstop guy. I could run.

I could always run. I play a quarterback in high school, and I didn't have an offensive line. We're playing Compton, Losinger. I can go on and on. And Trevor, you know what I'm talking about. All those big rats. I got my speed from there.

But I will say this. It helped me out being a catcher, knowing when to go, knowing even, you know, later in my career, whether it be, I'll tell you what, the delay still, everybody teaches, hey, do two hops, do three, because you're not trying to mess with the catcher. Do three shuffles. It's such an easy bag.

You're walking, you have a lot, you can't be scared to get thrown out. But I knew times to go and times not to go and who was catching, who's quick. And I think a lot of it had to do with being a catcher that helped me out tremendously. I like the three hop rule because you said you're not trying to fool the catcher. No. The catcher can not be fooled. He can throw the ball down to second base. If there's no one there to cover the damn base, you're going to be sick.

Exactly. So you're trying to fool the guy, the shortstopper, the segment is whoever's covering. Yeah. And everybody goes, oh, two hops. No, three shuffles. But now when you get to that second one and you try to get that third one, you feel like you're out in the middle of nowhere. But I'm telling you what, out of the, however many bags I stole, I guarantee you 80 of them were on in delay still. And people knew I was going to do.

You just don't see that anymore. You don't see a delayed steal anymore. That's one of those plays. And analytics guys probably hate it. And there's a free base. In 2001, and I wasn't sure, well, A, take me back and maybe it's an easy answer, but I think 2001 was the year that you played a little outfield for the pirates. Was that injuries?

Was there another catcher or what was going on there? And then now talking to you a little bit, I mean, you're a catcher. were you like a fish out of water or what what was that well it was because of my thumb they tried to give me days off um and uh so they would put me in the outfield and in the next day would catch i never really had a chance to work out i'll never forget the first day i played was in atlanta and colby ol veris hit a foul ball down the line and i slid into the wall number one web jam it was awesome boy was it downhill from there it was awful the rest of the type of I wouldn't pay attention. I'd made like eight errors and 20 games, and it was just awful. Because I'm yelling at fans or, you know, just yelling at people. But I mean, another from one game, I ended up calling the game from the outfield for Keith Osset, who was catching.

Yeah, I made a number one web gym, and then it was just straight downhill from there. Yeah, you go from a catcher who's involved in every damn play, like call in the game to be in the outfit where you could just, can stand out there for an entire game and do absolutely nothing except if you back up a base. How did that work? Colin pitches from you were left arm down like right arm up change up kind of something like that. That is awesome. We got it we got to find some video. Is that snakeball? That's the one that got me at least four or five times like coming up ready to throw and next thing I know. I played outfit a little bit in in Texas.

Whatever grass they use out there, because they have to use, like, a different grass is so damn hot. That ball snakes, like, crazy. And I guess probably in the new stadium, they won't have that. But I'm totally with you. I'm not like the outfield. That ball will find you. Outfield, okay. Pitchers shag and BP.

No, no, no. That ball will find you. Yeah. We saw that this last postseason with Gresham, the guy for the right-fielder. Yeah. In Milwaukee, you know, people are like, oh, how do you miss that? that ball. It's not easy. You're running full speed and you saw that ball took a hop towards the other

way. And he didn't catch it. And if it happens in any other point in the season, whatever, but it happened at that exact moment and man, it's tough. Ability that these big leagues have, it's unbelievable. And on TV

as a fan, it looks so easy from hitting to yeah, well, you know, the ball's coming in 95 and sinking. And then, you know, like that hot that we're talking about. It's not that easy. No. Jimmy,

Jimmy is a catcher at heart. His catching career got stopped before years. When curveballs exist became. Yeah, the curveballs got him. So I know in his head he can't let this go. What was the discussion for you to call pitches in the outfield? Like, did you just tell the catcher?

No, they wanted to keep my bat in line up. Well, no, no, no. but when you said your right arm change up left arm down fastball what did you tell the catcher you were going to call the pitcher yeah i was from left field did you tell them before the game and like this is my game i'm still going to hey dude i'm going to call the game because i can't stay focused here because he was without a doubt he goes all right go ahead you know him better than i do who was the catcher it's awesome he's probably a nice day off for him he was like cool i'll be mindless back here. Oh yeah, he goes, no, you know the team

better than I do. I mean, you've been back there. This is, I'm just getting a I'm getting to start. Thanks. Did the pitch, did the pitcher know they were coming from you? That way the pressure's not on me. Did the pitcher know it was coming from you? Did he ever, like, shoot you a look on the mound and just like shake you off of my

field? Like, nah, man. He should have, right? I want to. Kit Wells. No, he knew too. We got to look for that. We got to see the catchers looking out there. It'd be funny if the announcer kept saying like, why is he looking at left field?

That's how it should have been. But now I was just left field and I sent him to Keith and he would, every pitch. But you know what? I was locked in. I don't think I'd hit an heir to that game. Another thing I dug up while looking at all your stats and stuff, I was trying to see what pitcher you had the best numbers off of. And it's a potential Hall of Famer.

Do you know who you have the most home runs best numbers off of? Well, I know I have, I didn't hit me home runs. but I think I have three home runs off of shilling. Yeah. Your numbers for shilling are pretty good, considered that he's probably a Hall of Fame or skill-wise. You know who I had a hard time with is John Smith. Guys, you just don't know.

I mean, too, am I right, right, right, especially when you're in your own division or you get older and older. You know how much their ball cuts, how much it sinks. How you know as a hitter, if you have, say, over 10 at bats against them. But the guys that you have five are, those are the other guys that had a tough time. I love facing, you know, Maddox, John. You knew they're going to be around the plate number one. And you knew you're going to get some.

Don't miss that one pitch that you get the hit because then you're done. Yeah, I mean, everyone, you always have your guys that you crush. You always have your guys that you're not going to do well against. I didn't mind the I haven't seen him before a thing. But there were just some guys I saw the ball against. And there were some guys who I faced a ton, and I never saw the ball against. Scherzer was one. We always kind of just let that happen because he's Max Scherzer and he's an excellent pitcher.

Without doubt. I'm okay with that. But my guy was Wobaldo Jimenez, and I just couldn't hit him. Okay. So, yeah, there's just certain guys. Yeah. It's unbelievable. There was one guy.

This is actually a funny story. It was my last year playing in 2010. We're in Anaheim, and I'm up to bat. and it was like maybe like my second or third bat and this guy comes in. I still couldn't tell you the guy's name. Okay, oh, down, oh, one, and look up. I'm looking on the scoreboard.

I'm 0 for 25 against this guy. I don't even know who he is. It's heck or something. And so I'm like, oh, like, I had to take a step back out of the box. Honestly, it was, all I know is his cousin was, used to play pitch for the Blue Jays and was really nasty for a year.

And that's an Escobar maybe or that's heck I don't even know who he is I was oh I'm over 25 and I swear to you my last I hit a ball right off his toe to the second basement gets me out so I'm like oh We'll have to look that up unbelievable So these guys you have success and guys just can't get a hit Soria that's crazy or no it's a Angels guy Fuentes was an Angels guy at the time I don't even know where I faced him that many times at to have been Irvin Santana? No. I know I didn't hit him well either, but it was a look in the bullpen.

He came out of the bullpen. Do you have catchers? If you throw on a game, are there catchers that you love, like you just love to watch them play? I feel like there's an obvious answer to that. But at the same time, you always hear like, oh, I love to watch this guy pitch or love to watch Andrelton Simmons play shortstop. Are there a couple dudes that if you turn on a,

Wednesday night game and they're behind the plate, you're like, yes, or is it guys you have relationships with? No, I like watching baseball. I just enjoy watching baseball. You know, one thing that I always did, though, as a catcher, is I always watched the other catcher, whoever might have been. And this is something, once again, to tell younger kids is everybody's different. And when a certain coach will sit here and say, hey, you know, do it this way.

Well, okay, and then you change. Well, if you're having success at doing it your way, then you continue to do it. And when it gets to the point to where you're not having that success anymore, then you don't do it anymore, I watched everybody, and I would try to take something out of someone's game, and it might or might not work for what I did behind the plate.

But if I saw something that I like, I would totally try to go do it. And that's not me. Does one come to mind per chance? A catcher. Was it that? Does one come to mind? I mean, it doesn't have to do.

Oh, Osmus. Leberthal. I mean, even Piazza in certain areas, you know, whether it be catching footwork. Yvonne Rodriguez, I can go on and on and on. I would watch every catcher that I ever played against, even, you know, whoever was backing me up or whatever. And try it. If you think you know everything in this game, you're not going to be in a moment because it's never going to have. There's never going to be a person that knows everything about this game.

And you've just got to try a new thing. So for a kid that is trying, wants to be a catcher, watch everybody. Just watch, watch, but I love baseball. I watch anything. Who's the best, who's the best catch and throw guy you ever saw? I feel like credit for hitting ability. But I want to know who the best catch and throw guy is that you ever saw. Catch and throw guy?

Now, Salvatorez, without it. I've never seen a big man that way throughout my whole entire baseball career. be able to put the ball on a minute. This guy's 6.3, 2, 70, and he's very athletic back there. I've never seen anybody with an arm like that that just can put the ball where he wants to at any given time. And there's a lot of other guys. Now, you know, catching the ball wouldn't even be close to my top 100. But catch and throw guys, unbelievable.

So there's a lot of guys with unbelievable arms. at the end of the day though now it's getting better because you can go and hit 240 and if you know how to call a game then you're gonna you'll be around in the big leagues if you stay healthy for a while but kind of back when I play you better hit 280 or higher yeah I think that's really important

what you just said there about catch and throw guys is you can have the quickest release you can have the strongest arm but if you're not putting the ball where it needs to be put, guys are going to steal bases on you. And the guys that threw out the most guys that I played with, the guys that always threw guys out,

they would just put the ball in the bag. And, you know, you didn't have to go up the line, you didn't have to reach up for it, bring your tag down. Those guys that were accurate with the ball. Those are the guys that throw people out. So, yeah, Sal, he was one of those guys. He loved to throw, or still loves to throw, and he is accurate, and that's just like,

that's how you get those percentages. Being accurate is unbelievable. I mean, he was, or is, that good. And, you know, I'll be honest you're like, for a guy like Sal, this is probably a good break for him because he just came off of Tommy John. So he's going to have that other two months to get

prepared. But yeah, I've never seen anything like it, especially when he was, you know, rookie, first two, three years, whatever. It was just because he's huge. He stole me out a few times. I'm not a stolen base guy, though. I found his guy. I don't know how much you should have been stealing. It was a Hector

Carrasco. That's the guy you're talking about. He only struck you out. I was close. He only struck you out twice. But I was over like 25, wasn't I? Oh, for 20. Yeah. Oh, for 15.

Oh, for 15. I had a, no, no, no, there's more. I had another, uh, uh, question is, according to all my research, you never played a single game at AAA. You went straight from double A to being the opening day starting catcher. So is that a surprise or did you understand, like, I know you were first round pick and you're flying through, but that spring training, do you know, like, hey, I'm, I, they're having me pegged to be the starter? Because, I mean, realistically, AAA comes after double A, but you skipped it. I just went out and played. And I remember, it was funny because I kind of had an idea, I guess, going in because they had, they brought Lance Parrish into camp.

and he was going to try to back me up, being a tutor or whatever. But Keith Osoc ended up beating him out. So I kind of had an idea if I go on and have a good spring that I might. But I just went out and played and let everything else. I think especially when you're young, if you start worrying about things like that, you're going to be thinking about it when you're hitting.

You're going to be thinking about it when you're playing, running bases, whatever it may be. So I honestly just went out and played. And I think AAA, now is more you're better and up and down guys AA

your prospects are going to be at I mean you know both are good baseball and Trevor correct me if I'm wrong but you know you're six year free agents

whatever they're gonna be a triple A and but you're the guys you draft the guys that have a chance are going to be at double A and so I mean

I don't know if that had anything to do with or not I think the slot and low ball year weren't there more and I think it's luck to see what he can do. Yeah, I would say that at AA you have your prospects. They're already there. They bleed into AAA a little bit, but like you said, usually AAA is kind of the fringe

guys, a little bit older guys who are up and down. You are going to get some prospects in that league, but if you're looking for straight, young, talented baseball players, double A is probably the league that has the most of them. So yeah, the baseball there is, I would say at times it's better than AAA, but AAA is more consistent because you have guys that have been there and they're just more consistent with their routine, they have more experience. So then that's what the big leagues is. It's the best players who are consistent.

You know, you still have that. In AAA, you have the talent. But when you get to the big leagues, it's all about talent and being consistent with that talent. You don't have the guys that fluctuate a ton. That's the biggest separator from the big league. least to the minor leases, that consistency factor. Very true. You're a baseball guy through and through.

I could ask you questions all day, and I won't torment you with that. But I'll leave my final question as an open door for you. Do you have a good either All-Star Game story, fight with an umpire behind you, behind the dish, or maybe like a brawl story that you'd like to share? Because I know within those three topics,

you've got to have something good. I've been trying to find your brawls on the internet and I cannot find that they're impossible the marlins one is impossible to find when you went after lackey can't find that yeah you know you know I had a hard you know I'll give you a funny story I but I had a hard time with people yelling at me and um but uh me too I can take a lot of so uh Joe Kennedy who's pushing for the Rockies and it's very similar with John Lackey and I respect John Lackey but you know he shouldn't have yelled at me the bases were loaded and it was a two-one count I got free ribby's out there with one out and say I got nothing out and I just I lost it but Joe Kennedy very similar he hit me and I'm walking halfway down first base and he goes yeah by about my elbow pad I boom right you got to fight the next year he gets traded to Oakland and God bless us

soul. He passed away. But it was another sad story. But he can just tell how uncomfortable he was walking into the Oakland, you know, clubhouse when he got traded at the deadline. I went up. I'm like, hey, Joe, Jason, we got a fight last year. You know, I just kind of broke the eyes. He was so much better.

But what a good dude. You know, he ended up passing away. But, yeah, that's just off the top of my head. That's good. That's good. Yeah. That's what I wanted. We share one thing.

We led the league, both you and I, one year, in a specific category. And I didn't lead the league in a lot of categories, okay? And this one is actually not a good category. You led the league and grounded into double plays in 2005. And I also let a league and grounded into double plays. Not sure. Yeah, but you know what?

That's pretty cool stuff. Because, listen, at the end of the end of the game, the day you're making the game quick you get that but light a lot quicker i always tell people you go you got to hit the ball hard to hit in a double plays okay that's what i tell without a doubt well congratulations we're going to make some type of trouble yeah cool hey thank you thank you for joining us man we really appreciate it this was it was pleasure and um anytime you have anything you have anything you want to plug no you know the only i'm going to plug is that guys just stay safe be just everybody be safe out there and stay at home and just let this whole thing take that's the only thing I can say

but I mean that's kind of just common sense but be good stay safe well love it you're welcome on anytime yeah man seriously guys be good pleasure all right jays all right as you guys heard that was jason kendall who uh sat down I think the interview is around an hour there's probably half hour of technical difficulties beforehand that he he would patiently sat through and figured out so we could all hear each other without an echo and all that. I think Jake, myself and Trevor post game all were like, we have so many more questions. That was a fun one. That is a baseball man right there.

I, like there was a period of time where I wanted to get the phrase like baseball guy going because football guy is a thing. And Jason Kendall would be my figurehead. That was awesome. He will be back on the podcast. He had a chance to plug his own podcast, and he didn't. So, like, go check that out. It's called wrestling with sports.

It's called wrestling with sports. And ploof is going on now. Yeah. Just to recap a little bit, the flower story was, pretty funny that he shared that. Unreal. And I think calling pitches from left field, I told Jake after this we recorded,

like, thank you so much for doing the follow-up on that, Jake. Because I needed to know if he just, when he told the catcher, hey, I'm going to call from left field. If that catcher put up a fight? Because it wasn't an ask. It wasn't a, hey, would you like me to call from left field? It was a, hey, I'm calling the pitches from left field. And it's it's dude, he can't even see the break.

Like he doesn't have like a good sense. Doesn't have a good angle. And it just shows how like entrenched he was in baseball that it. And it's tough to almost get into the modern day mindset of, you know, analytics and cowling pitches and stuff like that that he was so well respected. And hey, maybe there is another side to the story that wouldn't necessarily shock me. But I don't think there is. Like I just think it was the.

The way he depicted it was like the other catcher was like, yeah, man, you know what's going on. Oh, it's fantastic. So go check out his podcast. I would say tweet at him, but I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck if you tweet at him or not. He doesn't care. And hopefully we'll catch up with him in the future because that was great.

Thank you guys for hanging out with us and listening. And excuse me while I slowly find the outro music. Here we go. We will see you. in the middle of the week, Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday. Depends if there's news or not. Thanks.