Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 139 | Sean Doolittle Explains How the Nationals Learned to Have Fun

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

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Welcome back to talking baseball. We have a fun Monday interview for you. May the 4th be with you. It's Sean Doolittle. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to talking baseball. We hope you had a fantastic weekend. Myself, Jimmy, Trev, Jake, BBD.

We are all here. We are excited because we had a very nice and long chat with World Series winner. Sean Doolittle was kind enough to give us a lot of his time to discuss all things baseball. Did you guys enjoy this one? Jake? I did enjoy it. I did enjoy it. It was, you know, it started off heavy, I guess it was more heavy baseball than I thought.

I thought we were kind of going to get off the rails with Sean because he's kind of a fan slash he's seen what we were doing. So he kind of knows what we're about. The baseball stuff was incredible, though. I mean, everything from, you know, that 2019 Nat's team to his coming up, to, you know, like how he thinks was really good. And then, as always, we got off the rails a little bit. But yeah, man, cool, cool dude. Trev, you played with him before in Oakland for a little bit, right? I did.

I got to know him in 2017. And he's just like, I love it. He's smart. He's calculated. Like, he's a guy that's really. understands himself and kind of like what he does and he just has really settled into like being himself and I love that. Yeah. He's really just like coming to. He mentions that a little bit towards the end, but just a good dude. It's a really good dude and a really good pitcher. If you're a nationals fan,

get excited because some of the stories he told about the conga lines and the dancing and the team chemistry are like porn for a fan that team just went a world series and you just want to hear about the culture and relive it more. Strap in, I won't make your way any longer. Here he is. We are joined by 2008 Arizona Fall League Rising Star

Sean Doolot. John Dooloodoo. How are you doing, brother? Do you get that a lot? Glory days, baby. Yeah, people, you would be surprised, man. People don't forget. And that was back in your swinging day.

So I didn't know if that was going to be, are those fun memories at this point? Where are those memories at? Fall League was one of the most fun times of my baseball career. I had a blast playing in a fall league. We won it in 2008. There were some really good guys on that team. So I look back on that time as a hitter very, very fun. fondly.

Did you get hurt? I mean, because I know it was knee injuries, right, that derailed the swinging days. Did they come? No people call the Arizona Fall League, the Arizona Get Hurt League? Oh, I don't know. Do they call it? I think I've heard that before. I haven't heard it.

I mean, I don't really heard that either. I don't know. But ultimately, that was 2008. I tore up my knee in May. of 2009. I ended up having two knee surgeries, and I tore up, I tore a tendon in my wrist in May of 2011, and that was the final straw that led to me switching to pitching. So it was a long, and it was definitely the scenic route to the big leagues.

Yeah, but, I mean, you're Jake's favorite thing, because Jake always says that, you know, we have these two-way players coming up, but for 50 years, we just didn't allow anyone to even attempt it. So like if you if you didn't get hurt, if you didn't get hurt, do you think you could have gone two-way? Oh my gosh. I don't.

I don't know. You could have. You rake in the minor leagues. I college. I did the two-way thing in college. I pitched on Friday and played first base on the rest of the weekend and a DH during the week. So I could.

do it. But I don't know. The toll that it takes on your body, obviously my body wasn't built to wasn't going to be able to handle that. And people ask a lot if I miss playing a position and being a hitter. And to be honest, I don't because just the grind that it takes on your body of playing every single day relieving relief pitching is its own grind but like playing every single day the mental ups and downs of being a hitter i don't miss that at all yeah i think you have the best job in in the big leagues like being a closer a guy who comes and shuts down game it's like when do you get that um i don't know that feeling and that adrenaline like of coming yeah and ending the game, but you also have like such a cool schedule.

Like you get to kind of be on your own fee, man. I do love the schedule. And I try to take advantage of having some service time now where, you know, you don't go down to the bullpen until the fourth or fifth inning. You know, you can spend the beginning part of the game in the clubhouse. And I spend it mostly in the weight room and the training room doing like an active warm up and getting ready to go and watching the first few. in the game on TV and there.

And, you know, there is something cool and sexy about having that closer title attached to you. Like, and like you said, the adrenaline rush of coming into a game in the ninth inning is, man, you just thrive on it. Once you get like a taste to that, you just, and it's a little bit crazy. It's a little bit nerve-wracking. It's exciting. Obviously, the down part is, there's some nights where it doesn't go your way. Even if you make your pitches, right? These guys are really good. They get paid a lot of money to hit.

But like sometimes you'll execute your game plan just how you wanted to. And a broken bat hit falls or a ground ball sneaks through the infield. Something happens that's way outside your control. And at the end of the game, you're standing in front of your locker, having to talk to the media because you got the blood. and save and the loss. And then other nights, you just get absolutely shelled. And, you know, that happens. That happens. But it's, there's something about coming in at the end of the game and, you know, kind of looking around at the guys that are playing defense behind you.

And, you know, they're all looking to you to nail this thing down and close it out. They've been grinding for three hours, you know, they're, they're feeling a little tired. And they're looking at you like, all right, get a lot. over this hump let's do this thing and uh you know get ready to start high-fiving on the mound and um so it's um it's kind of i i love it i think mentally i i was kind of this was what i was supposed to be doing all along i feel like relieving fits my personality a little bit better and um so it it all worked out in the end that's uh that sentiment is mariano rverer used to say that as well like you know, the pressure was on from like the infielders like,

and the catcher like, hey, we've been doing this for three hours. Like, get these three outs. And I always thought I was interesting because I never thought about it from that perspective. Like he's like the team wants to just go shower. I'm supposed to get them into the showers and easily. It's like it's weird because you come in and the closers have all the fanfare. Like it's the happiest the stadium is going to be when the closer runs out. Oh, but then it's just hanging on a thread real quickly.

It's all over the top. Like most closers, like they take the, you know, the intro on the video board gets taken to the next level. I'm riding in on a bullpen cart, you know. I'm like, I'm milking it and, you know, trying to take it for all its worth. And but you're right. Like they, and I didn't know that he said that. But that's always something that I've thought about. And I'm, I, as a pitcher, as a closer, I interact.

with the with the infielder's like um you know throwing the ball around after um an out or um before the inning starts like all talk to the guys um it keeps me loose um but i also want to kind of connect with them and kind of see where they're at and it helps me really like find the energy and the flow of the game like right away um so you know a lot of times that the ball gets thrown around and the third basements. I had a lot of conversations with Rendon just like in the middle of an inning last year and trying to figure out where the infielders might be positioned in the shift and, you know, having Zim over at first. I played with Zim in college, so like we kind of have like a connection and it's been cool to be able to share a clubhouse with him again in the big leagues and,

you know, having him over there. He's kind of, he's so stoic. He's like a rock. He would, he would, he just kind of like calms me down just like by looking at him. He doesn't get rattled about anything. Rendon too. You're like looking at two guys there who were just. I got.

I had to make sure Rendon was awake. Like I was like, Tony, you good? Like, you know, and he, he would always throw me changeups. He wanted me to throw, he wanted me to throw the hitter changeups. So he would send me like subliminal messages maybe. I don't know. But like the ball, the ball would get thrown around around. the infield and he would make us like he would like turn it over and like flip it back flip it back

to me that's funny that's great what what was more nerve wrecking coming in for the first your first save or the first time you tried to use the closer rules and stay longer in the clubhouse like were you worried that the manager was going to call you out and be like wait you're okay you're you're this guy that that wasn't as nerve-wracking for me because like I asked Bob Melvin at the time and every player that's played for for Beaumel I think they have a ton of respect for him and I had a great relationship with him and I was just like hey look like once I started sliding into that that role in 2014 you know kind of asked like would it be okay if I spent the first few innings in here in the wait room moving around a little bit.

Because in Oakland especially, like, even in the summer months, it's chilly. And there's nowhere to hide in that bullpen. You have a little wooden roof and you're sitting on the field. And there's a space heater down there to try to keep you warm. But it gets chilly. Like even in July and August, you need a sweatshirt and a jacket. And so I just communicated with him. because I didn't want, I didn't want him to like wonder where I was or think like I was,

you know, getting a little too big for my britches. So I asked, I asked him and made sure that I kind of had permission for that. But my first save was super nerve-wracking because it was against the Yankees, my rookie year. And Balfour, who was our closer, was down that day. I believe he'd worked probably three days in a row. And same with Ryan Cook, man. So they came to me before the game and they were like, hey, if it gets to, then you're going to have the ninth.

And I was like, all right. I'd been in the big leagues for like a month at this point. And I was like, I was just like, okay. Like, I'm just happy to be here. And then like the game starts, the game, you know, progresses. And I'm watching the scoreboard following the line of. And, you know, around like the sixth or seventh inning, you start to try to envision who you might have in that ninth inning if things kind of stay the same. So you're like, all right, I might, I'm going to probably face this chunk of the lineup.

And you might get the, at that time, and there was a binder in the bullpen that you, that had all the scouting reporting information. Now it's an iPad. And I'm, I like flipped it open. And I was like, I forget the exact order, but it was like, it was like, it was. here it's a crazy it was like was it cano uh a rod andrew jones uh a rod cano to share uh andrew jones is the four batterers you faced in your first save at is the stadium in a one run game it was at the coliseum it was at the coliseum in a one run game a two two one i believe was the score and i think i think a rod led off with a hit yeah singly um yeah it was a

was this weak broken bat like bleeder to left but um and i was like all right if i can get in on him maybe all right so maybe like i still have my good fastball it wasn't like a solid hit i was like all right i think i might be able to figure this out somehow and then cano was next and i was like i felt pretty good about the left-on-left matchup and i was like i got him and then to share i was like he was like one of the guys him and Arod especially in that lineup just had like a presence in the box that I remember just being like it was kind of like a welcome to the big leagues moment

and I was like gee like these guys are just next level and I've been watching these guys on TV for the last several years and as like a fan I'm like well aware of what they're capable of doing and what their you know careers have been like And at some point during the Tashara at that Arod stole second, probably because I was super slow to the plate and still am. But and so now I'm like, great. To Chera with the tying run on second, this is going great. And but I think I got him looking, which I was, I was kind of like, what are you, what were you looking for?

Like a fastball in like a different spot maybe? I don't know. Well, A-Rod took off on him. Maybe A-Rod distracted him. Maybe. Oh, okay. That was strike three. Okay.

Maybe. I don't know. And then I had a long battle with Andrew Jones for the final out. And I was like, you're going to have to earn every single bit of this. Like, if you're going through the teeth of this order, with just these names and these guys against the Yankees, my mom's side of the family are die-hard Yankees fans. And we've converted some of them to Nationals fans after the World Series, but they still, they still, they're from North Jersey. They're still very much Yankees fans at heart, I think.

And so for me, like being, growing up, hearing about the Yankees and constantly having to be on the opposite end of the family bragging rights and stuff, I was like, it had to be this way. And, you know, Jones is battle and he's fouling off high fastball. after high fastball and I was like, I'm going to have to earn every single bit of this, man. Like all thousand of these home runs combined that these guys have in their career. I'm going to have to find a way to get through this. So it was extra special to nail that one down. Hey, man, it's a hell of a, you know who pitched you on the opposing side, Trev, Hughesy with a great game.

Right at all. 7.2 tour and runs, friend of the pot. Every once in a while he could throw a gym. Yeah, that's crazy. Sean, I want to put you on the spot a little bit. So traditionally speaking, get ready. Traditionally speaking, your best reliever, best guy in the bullpen becomes your closer. He's a guy you want at the back end of the game, closing games out.

Now, I think the game's turned a little bit and people are starting to use their bullpens differently. And now you're kind of seeing like maybe your best reliever doesn't close out games. Maybe he's your high leverage guy. Do you think that's a viable option or do you think you still have to have your closer there to close out games? If you're a manager, you have this one guy who's clearly the best bullpen option. Are you going to put him in a high leverage role or are you going to put him in the back end of games? I guess that's my question. I think that more times than not, if possible, you are going to want that guy to get the most important outs of the game.

And those outs won't always be in the ninth inning. So I like the idea of moving that guy around a little bit in the last two to three innings of the game when possible. And I say when possible because you want to give that guy time enough to warm up to give him a chance to, you know, come into the game fully ready to go. So you can't spring it on him like some of these other guys in the bullpen matchup guys or set up guys. Sometimes they can get ready super quick. But once you spend a little time in that closer roll and you spend your whole day kind of knowing that you can just grab. gradually build up and prepare mentally and physically for the ninth inning for the last three outs. So sometimes closers aren't able to get ready as quickly as some other guys.

So if you can give him a little bit of time and say maybe the best part of the other team's lineup is coming up in the eighth ending. Maybe that's, you know, two, three, four is coming up in the eighth. And maybe there's some matchups you can play in the ninth. that might be an opportunity in situations where guys runners get on base in the seventh eighth inning and you can feel the game kind of hanging in the balance right I thought a perfect example of this was game one of the world series huddy was our closer at that point in time Hudson had done and said he was nails he was such a big reason why we were even in the world series and in game one we took an early

lead but in this in this what it is sixth inning no seventh inning things start to get a little squirrely springer hits a homer they start making astros start making some noise that we brought huddy in the seventh and i thought that was a really great move by davy to bring bringing our best guy when the game the momentum was clearly starting to turn and he was able to hold him off and keep him right there i got i got the the glory so to speak i got the save um which i was like super excited about but like he huddy was still our closer and maybe we just need to reframe that title and use a different uh name for it or just change the way but being me i think sometimes you know, the biggest three outs of the game aren't always in the ninth inning.

And it requires a lot of communication on the front end between your manager and your pitching coach, your bullpen coach, and the pitchers themselves. But I think, and I worry that sometimes those situations managers might be like a little bit too eager to put that reliever in maybe before he's fully loose. or maybe like you try to find that spot to bring him in a situation in the seventh and the pitcher out there gets out of it he you know gets a double play well now you just got this guy ready he was throwing do you put him in in the eighth or do you try to save him again for the ninth so like if you get it ready and he doesn't end up going in then how do you handle it what do you do with him then it would just take a lot of communication but I think that that's the way that it should kind of be managed it when possible. Yeah, I love that. It's almost, it kind of comes off

like common sense when you think about it now. Like, hey, they got, you know, they're three hole hitters on base and they got four, five, six coming up with no outs. Do you want your best pitcher up? Or are you going to save him for 7, 8, 9 and the 9th? It's like, well, let's use the best guy now. But it's weird that we went like 40 years

without that thought process. Yeah, and sometimes, like, there's a mental aspect to it too. Like if if the other team is pushing and trying to turn the momentum in the eighth ending and maybe they got guys on base, they're within striking distance and you bring your closer in and boom, you shut them down in the eighth. There's some nights,

some teams, every team's different, every situation might be a little bit different, but there's some teams that might kind of say like, all right, well, that was our shot. Tonight's not our night. and then, you know, the guy comes in for the ninth inning, and it's like one, two, three.

All right, we'll, you know, we'll get them tomorrow. But we went all in. We pushed all our chips into the middle of the table. We had them bring in their best guy and we couldn't do it. You know, and then that's kind of it for that night. They had their chance. And the momentum kind of swings back in the other direction to your team. So there's a bunch of different aspects to it.

just I think like people think about the way that Terry Franconi used Andrew Miller so effectively in Cleveland. And is that sustainable over the course of a long season or multiple seasons the way it might be during a playoff series? And the short answer is probably no. It would it would just require so much communication and forethought up front. And having a guy that's able to get ready, relatively quickly so he can be plugged into situations on short notice. Not every guy, not every reliever is physically capable of doing that. So you have to have the right personnel in the first place in order to do it. But I think when possible, you know, looking for those

spots when the game is hanging in the balance, even in the seventh and eighth inning, that is a time to think about bringing your best guy in. That makes a ton of sense. Like just being, having a guy that's well first willing to do it and then secondly like he like you said he has to be a guy that's able to kind of physically get ready quickly everybody's different so yeah over

I love seeing it in the playoffs but it's really like you said probably not sustainable throughout 162 game season oh I think we might have lost a doo-doo I love that he's saying that about you know, I think that's the future.

I don't think there's going to be defined closers as much anymore. I think that we'll see bullpins being broken into sections, and we already have managers with sheets that have matchups. Like, we have our matchup that we want. We know which guys match up better against their lineup. So let's try to put them in those situations to succeed. So I think we'll end up seeing that more and more instead of just having one defined closer.

It's like let's just put these guys in a position to succeed. I think there's a lot more moving parts to it than we are depicting, though, because we are kind of jumping into a new world of baseball where think of the second guessing. You know, if you take a reliever out and then your closer gets hit and then you burn that guy or, you, you know, you know, say your closer comes in and does the job and then he's either worn out, or if he comes in, does the job, and then you send someone else in to do the knife and they can't do the job,

it adds this whole other layer of second guessing where it kind of is that fine line of, you know, someone's got to keep you in the game, but you want to win, hot take. He's back. You do want to win. I'm back, baby. I'm back, baby. What was your hot take? I missed it.

I was just talking out of my butt waiting for you to come back to be completely honest we think that that is the future that the closure role will be less defined and it will be more about matchups I feel like now in such a numbers driven game like they want to put people all players not just pitchers they want to put everyone in a position to succeed they want where the numbers make sense to them so I think and you probably have a better and more informed opinion on this, but in my brain, I think like setting it up beforehand saying this guy is good against these players, this section of the lineup. So let's try to get him in against that section of lineup in this situation. So we are going to have the better probability of success.

Right. And I think like having those defined seven, eight, ninth inning roles is kind of going to diminish, you know. That's what I thought. I thought that way too, Trev, but whenever the Yankees relievers talk about why they like the strategy of the Yankees using stuff is they say that they like when Booney and whoever will be like, hey, you probably have the sixth or seventh today. So they can spend the game getting ready. So like if you're going to match up on a whim on depending on who's hitting in the six or seventh, then you change it on that guy. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a professional player or reliever. So do a little, what do you got on that? Yeah. You're not yet. Yeah.

no you're you're very right and and um without i don't really know the any of the yankees guys or how the yankees do it but just relievers in general the best the best bullpens the most effective bullpens that i've been a part of um the when the phone rings in a certain in like a certain situation whether it's the sixth inning or the eighth inning um the best bullpens are when that phone rings and everybody down there knows who it's going to be for because you've kind of communicated and the manager has found an order and a role for, you know, just about everybody. And like the phone's ringing. It hasn't even been picked up yet.

And that guy's taking a sweatshirt off and he's already walking into the mound. So I think when it comes to like roles, we might see roles shift to where you're not necessarily the seventh inning guy. and you're not the eighth inning guy, but it might be like a chunk of the lineup to say like, hey, if we get through these guys, it's going to be this, it's going to be this player, this pitcher. If it's these guys and there's runners on base,

it's going to be that guy. So it might be like the roles might be defined more by situations or parts of the opposing lineup than necessarily by innings. and I think there's a gradual shift that's already happening because when I first came into the league, once you got that closer title attached to you, like, you hung on to it for dear life. And like, you wouldn't go to another team if you couldn't be the closer. You wouldn't sign a free agent deal if you couldn't be a closer somewhere else. And you, like, would refuse under any circumstances for your manager to take you out of that role if you had any say in it whatsoever.

Like once you got that title, like you were the title because those were the only relievers that were getting paid. Those were the only relievers that were getting sought after in free agency, like we're guys that were, you know, closers. And now you're seeing set up men getting taken care of pretty pretty well nowadays. Teams are understanding that if they're willing to take their starting pitcher out after 100 pitches in, say, the fifth inning, well, there's outs you got to get. And these guys have to be, these have to be guys that are able to pitch two or three nights in a row. We got to get guys that can go four out of six games and still be effective. And that your bullpen can't rely on just having one guy at the back end. And so set up men and match up guys, it'll be interesting to see how the three batter minimum plays into this.

But like, you know, they were getting taken care of and look, look. looked at and sought after in free agency. So you've seen guys, there's been a little bit of a shift where it's been like, all right, you've been our closer, but, you know, tonight, hey, we might need you in the seventh or eighth, depending on the way the situation's going. And guys are more open to that because those guys are still really denies their value. And, you know, at the end of the day, guys want to just have a really good idea. When that phone rings in the bullpen, who it's going to be for.

And, you know, that's the way, I think that's the best way to keep relievers happy and also make it be the most effective for the team. You guys, the nationals down the stretch and in the postseason, you guys had, I mean, Scherzer came out of the pen. Corbyn came out of the pen a bunch of times. Is, do they, are they picking your bullpen's ear? Like do they come up to you and be like, hey, any tips, any tricks? Corbyn didn't. He's pretty quiet and he has a really good routine.

So he didn't as much. Strauss, a little bit in the wild card game, he was down in the bullpen early in the game. And he kind of just wanted, he was sitting in a section up the stairs at Nat's Park where you couldn't really see all of really sure what was going on. But he was kind of talking to us some of the guys about some of our routines a little bit. But he's another guy, veteran guy that's been around for a while and has a really good routine. The one that surprised me was Max in the World Series in game six.

He was down there because he missed game five. He missed his start in game five. he had the neck issue. And he was in the bullpen. And he was available and ready to pitch during game six just in case. And the phone started ringing. And it wasn't for him. But I think it, this was like the middle of the game, maybe like the fifth of the sixth.

And I think he was, it kind of like reminded him that he's out of his element a little bit in the bullpen. And he looked next to me. He looked to me. I was sitting right next to him. And he said, hey, like, what do you think I should do, like, to warm up? And I was like, I was like, what? I was just like, I just like looked at it and started laughing. I was like, are you serious? Like, you're like, you're Max Scher. Like I said that to him. I was like, you're Max Scher. Like, and he was like, no, like, I don't know. Like, what do you do? Like, I want to get my legs loose and I want to move around, but like, I don't want to tire myself out. And I was like, you won't tire yourself out. And this blue. my mind because he had already pitched out of the bullpen in the division series against LA in game two. He pitched, he struck out the side in the eighth and was like the nastiest that he could possibly be. It was just a dominant inning. It was, it was ridiculous. And so I was like, that's another reason. I was like, you've already done this. Like, just do what you did

that time because that worked pretty good. And, but he was like, I just don't want to tire myself out, but I want to start moving around a little bit. And I was like, go over there. I was like, I don't know, go over there and like jog back and forth. That's what we do. Like, do some side shuffles, do some back pedal. Like, just get your legs moving a little bit. Like, you know, I mean, you could play light catch with the catcher if you want without getting them down.

Like, if you want to get ready quickly. But no, like those three guys were obviously, we couldn't have done it without them. and it really helps when you have some of the best pitchers on the planet that want to come down to the bullpen that are willing to pitch out of the bullpen. It's such a completely different way to prepare for an outing than the starter is usually used to, but they just thrived on that adrenaline man. And it was so awesome to see. Yeah, I put it up.

Go ahead, Jake. I think they were just trying to flex on you and be like, wait, what's coming out of the bullpen like? I just, normally, I just started out there. It's my bad. I just love that Mike Scherzer is asking you for, like, the secret recipe, and you're like, go jogging in place, bro. I was like, hey, man, we're relievers. It's not sexy down here.

We're not too proud. Like, go, I don't know, do some jumping jacks. You just got to get your heart rate going a little bit. Like, we do some stuff that looks really weird, you know, arm circles, and we're flapping our arms and backpedaling and doing a bunch of weird stuff. And, um, but you got to find a way to get yourself ready with maybe some limited space and, you know, no equipment normally. So do some leg swings by the wall.

I don't know. Yeah. I looked it up. He hadn't come out of the bullpen since 2008, his rookie year with Arizona. I go, a whole decade. So he's, why would you, you know, but that's, uh, it's funny. That's funny. What I don't, he did it.

I was going to say he did it. He did it in the, in the division series against the Dodgers in game two. and was down there in game five. And I was warming up. I was on the mound in getting ready to go and for the bottom of the 10th. And at this point, the game was still tied. And I saw him like lurking the bullpen at Dodger Stadium.

If you're standing on the rubber and you're pitching towards the field, but if you look in the direction of where like first base would be, so just like as a lefty, like it was straight in front of me, is the tunnel that goes back to the locker room. And I see him like, he's pacing back there. And I'm like, I'm like, this is my inning. I wanted to be like, Max, get the hell out of here. Like, I see you back there.

I'm going to like, this is my, it's my turn to pitch. And like, because like relievers, once you get called and you start warming up, like, you get really like defensive and protective of like your opportunity to pitch. and then how he hits the home run and we go up four and he's still back there and he's pacing and I'm like now you're just making me nervous because it's like if I get if I run into trouble like you're going to come in are you basically saying I'm going to mess this up and you're you're going to have to like be ready to come like bail me out I was like but but he so he had a little bit of experience you know he got a crash

course maybe in the playoffs of coming out of the bullpen. Yeah, funny. That's nuts. We had Daddy Dozier on the show. We talked about his shirt off escapades and all of it. Legendary. Yeah, what a, what, he was great, man. Him and him and Ploof went back to the Twins. He told us he got his power swing by just like doing hitting off a tee and trying to hit home runs. We're like, what? But go go go, go, go, go tune in. into that. But I don't know. So much has been talked about. You guys won the World Series. There's a reason it was talked about and you know

you guys had an older core and you guys started off slow. It came together. Rendon's a nut. Soto's a nut. Scherzer, blah, blah, blah. The bullpen came together for the playoffs. It was great. What's like the story that hasn't been leaked yet? And not in a hot take like gossipy

way, but what do you feel people don't talk about that team enough after the World Series? Because there's a ton of great story lines. I mean, from, you know, Kendrick and Eaton going nuts in the dugout after home runs, and you got the old guys, you got the young guys with Soto and Robles. What do you feel needs to be out there more about that nasty? Oh, man. Heavy. That is a heavy question. I think like, it's been talked about, you know, the chemistry and the clubhouse and stuff like that.

But to me, it could not have happened without certain guys in the clubhouse. And let's be honest, like, we've had some really good guys that have played for the Nats over the last several years. Like, I got there in 17. And if you were to just walk around the clubhouse, like the names that are above the lockers, like it's almost like an all-star team between. We had Daniel Murphy back then and Harper and, you know, Zimmerman's been there for a long time. And Max and Strauss and Rendon and Trey Turner. I mean, there's so many really good guys on that team. It's like, how have we not won?

And I think, like, I think at some point, like, we didn't have, we didn't have, like, any swag, right? Like, we were, like, we were pretty good at baseball, but, like, we're kind of dork. works. And I don't know if we had enough, I truly don't know if like we had enough fun playing the game. Like I think we were just, there was like maybe like a business like mentality to it where it was like we just have to, we just have to go out and win. And it was like a little bit more serious. And then you fast forward to 2019. And by, I remember in June, the first time we had a dance party after a game in the clubhouse. We were in Detroit. And it was a day game. And we'd had some travel issues coming into Detroit. So even though it was a three game series, like everybody's

sleep schedule was all out of whack. And so for this day game, it's getaway day, but we're still kind of recovering from that. And, you know, day game after a night game is always grindy anyway. but, you know, coming in the morning, like everybody's still waking up and eating breakfast in the clubhouse. And Annabal Sanchez and Fernando Rodney walk into the clubhouse at like 9.30. And they got these tinted sunglasses. They were wearing them in the dugouts. And they were like a promotional giveaway from. from the sparkling, the Seltzer Water Company, Bubbly.

I think that's how you say it. And I think they just, like, they picked them up on their walk from the hotel to the field. Like there was like a, I think there was like a promo stand like set up outside of the stadium and they got it on the, and Rodney has a boom box over his shoulder. And they are blasting music at like 9.30 in the morning

and it's reggae tone. and they're coming in and they're dancing. And everybody, like, even like my first instinct was like, please shut up. Like I'm not awake yet. Like, I'm still my first cup of coffee. Like, come on. Like, it's mid-jub. And at this point, like, we were in the jungle.

Like, we hit rock bottom on May 24th. Everybody talks about that. We got swept by the Mets at City Field. And so we're just starting to crawl out as a poll we dug ourselves. But we still can't see. the top of it. Like we're still deep in it. We're probably 10 games under 500 at this point. And we're, you know, so we're, our mentality is still like, we got to go. Like we got to go. It's very like heads down. Let's go. We got to grind this thing out. And they come in and they're

dancing and they're and they're singing and like they start grabbing guys and like doing like salsa dancing with them. And and this is like before a game and and everybody's just kind of like, what's going on? And then and then after the game. I came in after the game and coincidentally that was a special day for me personally that was my hundredth save that I got in the big leagues and that was like a really special milestone for me so like I came in I had to do an interview on the field and I was you know I'm super excited coming back into the locker room I'm walking my chest out you know I'm a hundred saved guy like sorry about it

they start blasting this music like they were waiting for me which I thought was really cool like they recognized like what happened for one of their teammates they waited for me to start this celebration after the game and like it was like all right he's here there's guys like with their shirts off and like all they're wearing is like their sliders like and I'm like what is going on and they were like all right let's go and like somebody presses play on the speakers and like a conga line just starts happening like are a the clubhouse in Detroit. And I'm like, and like, Trev, you've been there. Like, it's not that big. It's kind of like a U-shaped room, which is not ideal for a conglom line because that requires a lot more snaking. And I was like, what is going on? And like, initially, like my first thought after the game was like, no, like, we're celebrating too much after winning just a random game in June. Like, we, what are we doing? Like, we're going to burn ourselves. out. Like, you can't get this high after a win in the middle of the season. What are we doing? And, but like, by the end of it, I was like in the Congo line, like living it up, having

the time of my life. And like, I think, like, so that continued to happen the rest of that road trip and all throughout June and July and August and September. And after we won, we had, there was dance parties in the clubhouse after games and there were conga lines. And there was like a dance circle. Usually, Dozier was in the center. of it. But they would also pull, they would pull guys in, like, guys that weren't still, like, super comfortable, like getting out of their shells, like Strauss, like me. Like, I, contrary to what you guys might think of me, I am awful at dancing and I have no moves. I can do the, I can, I can do the floss. I can floss. And that's like my own dance. Oh, that's like my own dance.

Oh, right. Yeah. So that's like my go-to. That's home base for me. Yeah. I'm just like dancing. So like I can always fall back on, which gives me a little bit of confidence when they pull me into the middle of the circle. You got to have it. But like it started with the Latin guys. It started with Doge who, I don't know if he talked about this, but completely fluent in Spanish, which was really cool to have somebody, an American English-speaking player take it upon themselves to learn Spanish. having spent time playing in Latin America and winter leagues and stuff like that. But to have guys like Parra and Annabelle Sanchez and Fernando Rodney, guys who have established themselves in this league,

almost show us like, hey, it's okay to have fun. Like, we can still have fun and get us to loosen up a little bit. And yeah, you saw the dancing and the dugouts after home run. You saw the handshakes and stuff before the game and in the dugout get more elaborate over the course. It was because of those guys that we were finally able to loosen up enough to start having enough fun to like enjoy the opportunity that we had and come together as a team. And I just for me in that moment in Detroit, like I was still like this angry like baseball dork that was like, what are you guys doing? We can't do a conga line after a game in a one-run win in June. Like, this can't be okay.

The baseball gods aren't going to like this. And then like, but by the, you know, a couple weeks later, like, I'm dancing in the middle of the circle in the clubhouse. And man, it was awesome. Guys would get called up. We got guys that got traded over. And we would, and we were like, I can't wait to show these guys the celebration of the clubhouse after we. after we win. This is what we do.

We had at one of the games, the running back for the Redskins, Geis. He threw out the first pitch before the game. And this was in the summer. So it was before football season started. But he was, I think it was a first round pick, right? And so, like, after the game, like, they invited him in the locker room after the game. And they were like, he got in the conga line. But like halfway through he was like he was like what is this like you could tell like he he kind of

stepped back to the side and he was like he was like I don't know about these guys man this is crazy like I never seen anything like this before but like we would like new guys would come to the team and we'd be like I can't wait to win today because I can't wait for these guys to see the shenanigans that goes on after the game and like oh man it it was it just got like everybody like to let their guard down, let their personality come out, you know, have some fun together after a game, man, it changed the season for us. And in a game where we measure everything and use metrics for everything, that's still one thing you can't quantify. And we're lucky that we had those guys to help us get our heads on, right? Yeah. I think that's like about every single World Series

team talks about clubhouse chemistry and how important it was to their season, how it got them there, how it kept them loose. Yeah. Yeah, you just said you can't quantify it, so it kind of gets dismissed. Right. But like, is that something that's falling through the cracks, you think? Like with certain teams, like, hey, like, I get it. Like, you want the best players. And winning helps with that clubhouse atmosphere. Like, if you're just losing every day, it's really hard to do that. But there's something to be said about trying to. trying to, I don't, can you generate that like randomly or is it just something that has to come? I don't know how you find it. I don't know how you find it. Like I don't know how, I don't know what that process would be like. But in addition to guys that, yes. So in addition to getting, looking for the best players, I think you also have to look for the right players that fit maybe the group that you already have. Maybe they compliment. maybe so like I think Howie Kendrick is a perfect example for us he you know by like by like May and June like he's tearing the cover off the ball like he's absolutely mashing and even into like August he was hitting 340 and like I think it would have been really really easy for Davy and and the coaching staff to try to find a way to get him into the starting lineup every single night but he was like listen I'm telling

telling you guys, I can't be an everyday player for this team, like I, based on where my body is and how I feel, because he was coming off an Achilles injury. He tore his Achilles was pretty gnarly in the beginning of 2018. And so this was his, and I mean, he's getting a little bit older. We were the oldest team in baseball last year, the VA host. And it was something we were very, very proud of. But we also knew that it would take guys being willing to be like honest with themselves and maybe take a back seat for the first time in their career, being willing to share the load and share the playing time. And but like Howie to me was like the guy that kind of set that tone and was like, I can be the pinch hit guy that comes in off the bench for you

every night in the sixth or seventh or eighth inning when we need a big hit. But my body, the grind of a season, I can't take it every single day. And then you saw guys like, like Doge, a guy that, that's, you know, hit, you know, 40 homers in this league and it's established himself as, as a gold glove second baseman that can hit in the middle of an order. Now he's sharing time at second base with maybe as Drewbel Cabrera or Howie on some nights. You had Zim and Matt Adams platooning together at first base. You had Jan Goams and Kurt Suzuki platooning a catcher. you had a lot of guys that were willing to share that playing time, which is, I think, is a little bit rare, especially if you're an older guy. You don't want to be keyhold as a guy that's a platoon guy or a matchup guy that can only play when lefty starting pitchers are on the other side or, you know, stuff like that.

But, like, we had, we had the right guys that fit. you know, Parra was another guy. I mean, this guy, he's been in league for 10 years. He's won a couple gold gloves. Like, he's been around. Like, he's super established. But, like, he was like, no, like, and there were times where they were like, I want to play, I want to play. I want to play more often.

But like, at the end of the day, like, our team worked the way that it did because we had guys that recognized maybe where they were at, being honest with themselves about what their role might be on that team and embracing the role and being like, all right, well, if I'm going to split time at second base, I'm going to. to be when I'm in there like I'm going to make the most of it I'm going to embrace that role and be the best that I can at it and I think like for me howie was the guy that set that tone and but everybody just kind of embraced it so I think in addition to looking for the best players you also have to look for the right players that fit your roster and the way that you're trying to build your team

and what your team identity is going to be yeah and a lot a lot of those a lot of teams that go to the postseason like we've seen it with like the rangers had the claw remember that or the and yeah yeah these do thumbs down like there's all those things but you guys had so many things like baby sharks was awesome the dancing so many things eating i remember eating and howie with the race car stuff yeah yeah the dugout a lot of dancing a lot of dancing as i look back on this which for me like i said i got one dance move was a little bit unfortunate um seems like you have one more than Strauss, though. Don't sleep on Strauss.

I don't want to give too much away. Okay. His moves came a long way. And he even, like, smiled a few times while he was dancing. He started to have some fun in spite of himself, I think. So it was for me, it was really cool to see, to see Strauss kind of, you know, the hugs get a lot of attention. Sanchi and Parra giving him a hug and getting Strauss to crack a smile after his day was done in the dugout after his starts. and, you know, he was, he, he, he, he came around and he really started to embrace it and enjoy it.

But, uh, um, I think like, um, what were we talking about? I got sidetracked thinking about Strauss dancing. It's good. A bunch of, I was talking about a bunch of things, but I wanted to get to one of the things that fans came to enjoy every time it came was the Soto Shuffle. Oh, yes. And we, we talked with Dozier, who, A, I need to hear his, Spanish with that Mississippi accent.

That sounds like a wild combination to me. But Dozier told us that Soto went up to him at one point and said like, Doge, do you like it? Is it okay about the Soto shuffle? And his answer was, as long as you do it when you're in a slump, too, it's fine. So from the pitcher's mentality, what did you feel about that? I mean, do you love it? Would you love it if a guy was up there doing that to you? I would not love it.

I think I was doing it to me, especially because, like, I'm, I'm big on, I'm like pro bat flips and having fun when you play. As long as it's not directed at me, you know, the picture. Like, it's not like. And so, like, but the Soto Shuffle kind of really pushes the limit on that because when he's doing the shuffle, he's looking right at the picture. And he's wearing him eye contact with him. And most feeling. And it's like, man, who is this guy?

He's 21 years old and he's out here smiling at me. Like he's shuffling. He, because he, a lot of times, like, he ends up in fair territory in front of home plate because the shuffle gets so big. And like, if I was out there, I'd be like, I don't think I'd necessarily be mad, but I would definitely be like, what is this guy doing? Yeah. this about what is going on here i know he's trying to get in my head but like i don't understand

what exactly his game is here um so like i don't know like i i for me the the moment that i i fully came around on the soda shuffle was in 2018 uh later in the season i think it was maybe july or august um he we're playing at milwaukee and he ends up in a long battle with Jeremy Jeffress, who's out there throwing, he's throwing a hundred. He's throwing nasty splits. You look up his numbers for the Brewers in 2018. He was ridiculous. And he's giving him everything. He's, and he's, Soto is fouling it off. He's fouling it off. And after like every pitch Soto's doing the shuffle, like right back at him. And Jeffers, he's not backing down either. He's talking to him. He's shaking his head, you know, like, they're, they're kind of

going back and forth, but in a competitive way, like, there's no animosity there. Like, they're just both, like, really enjoying this competition that's going on right now. Jeffers ends up striking Soto out. And afterwards, after Soto gets out, it's the last out of the inning. Soto takes his helmet off and sets it down right at his feet and looks at Jeffress as Jeffers walking off. And Jeffers is kind of like pounding his chest. He's excited.

It was a big spot in the game. gets Soto after a long battle and he he's Soto smiles puts his home really gently, nods his head like hey you got me and that was that was kind of it and for me it was like okay here's at the time Soto was 20 but I was like here's this 20 year old kid that's out of here showing all this emotion but he still has the presence of mind and the respect for the game and the humility enough to be like all right I just got beat. I got beat kind of at my own game here. All right.

Like you, like you win. Like, okay. Like, and, you know, like, that was all there was to it. And for me, to see him kind of grow and, and show that in that moment, I knew that he's going to be okay in this league. And, you know, for me, the carrying the bat in the World Series was just, that was a highlight for me. I thought it was I mainly I thought it was ridiculous

because after the game he said he said I saw Bregman do it and I thought it was cool yeah and I was like and I was like I was like here is a guy he's I think that was he just turned 21 so I was like here's this guy he's 21 playing his first

World Series and he's out here planning his home run celebrations like the game's not that easy I'm out I'm pacing in the bullpen trying not to throw up because I'm so nervous and this guy out here is planning this home run celebrations and being like, well, if I hit one, I'm going to do that. Like, next time I hit a homer, I'm going to do something like that because I thought it looked cool. Like, that's crazy to me.

I made a little breakdown on that, Bregman doing it and then Soto doing it. And the comments on YouTube were so funny because I get a lot of people that don't even watch baseball. They just like find the little tidbits I put out there interesting. And that so many comments are like, why can't they carry their bat the first? I don't understand what this is about. They carry their bat to first. They're like, what do you mean? I was like, yeah, I guess we're kind of in a weird societal baseball thing here.

Yeah, yeah. I thought, and in the moment, like, I didn't, there were some guys on our team, you know, that Bregman celebration definitely kind of rubbed them the wrong way and was a little bit too much for them. I thought it was just a little bit more awkward than anything else. He too. He hit like a big home run and like he kind of held his bat out. Like that was part of like the Pimp job. And then like he starts jogging the first.

And it was almost like he realized he's like, oh no, like I still have my bat in my hand. What do I do with it now? Like I didn't think like he was doing it to like show anybody up or anything. That wasn't the vibe that I got. I was just like, well, I was like that was kind of like a little awkward. And then like he kind of tried to drop it and like give it to the. the first base coach or so i don't know first base coach was like fuck you dude i'm not taking your god kelly like he's like i don't want to carry your badge put it down yeah don't don't make me an

accessory to this like i'm not ready for that i'm not ready for that smoke but like um so i didn't i was just like ah man that was more awkward than anything else and like then so do was like i thought look cool and i decided that next time i had a home run i'm going to do that i was like wow Was that a Verlander Homer? Yeah. I think so. It was like he hit a 700 feet off Verlander. I mean, holy.

But it was funny because both managers were like, they shouldn't have done that. That's not right. And Bregman was like, I shouldn't have done that. I apologize. And Soto was like, I thought it looked cool. So I did it. Yeah.

And I don't do. Did you do the breakdown of that Soto at bat? Yeah. He's kind of talking to Chorinos and he said, because the pitch before the Homer was, just above the zone and Soto was like no if you if you throw it in the zone I'm gonna hit it I'll show you it's a strike like he like he matrinos were chirping all game or all series I did one with him in him and Granky where he he squared Granky up and grabbed his nuts while

he was staring at him and stuff and I mean Granky then Granky did a fake shake on a three one fastball like shook it off and then just threw a fastball right down the middle and Soto nods at I'm like, ha, you motherfucker. Like, because who takes a 3-1 fastball right down the middle? And there was like really cool mind games between the two of them. Yeah, I got to go back and watch that, man. I love watching him play the game because he has fun playing the game, but he's also so smart and so mature and his approach is so advanced.

And, you know, all the stuff that he does, the fun that he has playing the game, he still has an incredible amount of respect for it. And like you said, like going to a veteran, seeking Doja out and going to a veteran and being like, is it okay if I do this? Like that goes a long way in a clubhouse, but it also shows like that he still very much wants to earn his place in this game as a young guy. And he's not taking anything for granted. And he's one of the most exciting players in the league to me. Yeah. I think there's a beautiful juxtaposition there because I think we're I think it's in the same game But I think shurs are getting loose in the bullpen and not knowing how to get loose

With Juan Soto telling himself he's going to hit a home run and how he's going to celebrate There's something beautiful there Trevor I was going to ask you a question Do you remember facing Sean Doolittle? I do do. Okay. It was, I remember in particular, one at bat. I don't know how many of bets.

Do you have it up right now, Jake? I had this, I had one at bat. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say it can't be that many. So it was 2000, I want to say 13 or, or could have been 11. I don't know. It was really, it was pretty early in my career. And I remember I wasn't playing that day.

And checked out because in the AL, if you're having an office, day you're just kind of have an off day you know like you don't play and I pinch hit against you and I think you just like gassed me up like three fastballs and I was gone and I remember being like the fuck was that like why was I hitting right there like I wasn't ready for that you know and you were you were I mean I don't know what your numbers were but I remember at the time you were like you were like I didn't want to face you like I was checked out and I went up there and it showed like I was yeah look called strike ball foul foul tip you saw one ball see you later what year was that 12 2012 okay at at at the Coliseum at Coliseum at August 21st yeah

I remember Olivia who was not my wife she's my girlfriend at the time she had like a friend with her at the game and like I wasn't playing so They kind of were like going to leave early so they could beat the traffic. And then she like heard my name. Like I was pinch hitting. And she's like, oh, yeah, I watched you at bat. And I was like, oh, well, I'm sorry that you. Sorry you had to see that.

You know, like, she wasn't proud of me right there. It was a quick one. I do. I heard an interview you did where you said that you didn't really get into the analytics until you got to Washington heavily. Is that just kind of like time and place, or is it something that they offered when you got there? Or like, were you not into it beforehand?

Part of me, like, I wasn't super into it. And it was something that they kind of approached me with in 2017. And then I really started to get into it more in 2018. And because prior to that, like, I, spin rate wasn't really a thing when I came into the league. Like, I came into the league in 2012, and spin rate wasn't a thing. Like, I was one of the few guys that pitched at the top of the zone and lived across the top of the zone. Now you're seeing guys that, you know, really, like, trained for that and try to do that on purpose. And at the time, I was just like, I don't know, I'm just going to let it eat.

But I didn't know about spin rate or spin efficiency. And so I was doing so much of it by feel and by instinct and not really trying to think too much. But then, like, you know, you get older, your career progresses. You start to need to know a little bit more detail so that you can make adjustments and try to hang around and stay ahead of the competition. and when I got over to Washington after the trade in 2017, really started to dive into it, understand kind of what makes my fastball do what it does

and what I need to do, you know, work backwards from that, what I need to do with my mechanics in order to get my body into that position. Because you're fastball 80% of the time. So are you thinking like, hey, like the pitch mix stuff, I'm kind of set? yeah and for me like um that's not it's i i wish it was 80% that's me that would mean i was throwing 20% off speed but i think last year i was still like 88% fastball okay um some some years it's been in the low

90s um and it's not um that's not because like that's more because i haven't figured out off speed pitches yet and it's not for lack of trying it's not for lack of trying like I spend a really good fastball like don't be don't be modest here like you have an elite fastball I appreciate that I appreciate that but I would love nothing more Rendon had it down and and I would throw some changeups I would throw some change ups and uh rendone would I would look over at third base and rendon's like has his glove in front of his mouth and he's I can tell he's smiling because he loved it. But I, once I start, I, early in my career, I used to get like really paranoid that everybody

knew what pitch I was going to throw. And I was like, I was like, I can't, it's not like I can throw harder. I'm throwing every pitch about as hard as I can. So it's like, how do I keep these guys off balance? If I'm throwing 90% fastballs, like everybody knows what pitch I'm going to throw. They know what's coming. These are big league hitters. Like, what do I do here?

And as I progressed throughout my career, I started to realize that, like, I could use that to their advantage, to my advantage. I'm sorry, if they know what pitch is coming, and if I show them that pitch and they see that pitch come out of my hand, it'd be just across the top of the zone or just in off the plate, I can show them the pitch that they were looking for so they'll swing at it, but I can get them to kind of swing at it on my terms. And with the deception that it has, I can probably miss their barrel. I can get them to pop it up or I can jam them. And then, you know, starting to learn more about the spin axis and the spin efficiency. I don't have elite spin rate.

Really? No, I don't. Like, on a good day, like, I'm 2,400. But I spend most days. It's my spin efficiency that makes it effective. and that's the deception. So the spin rate that I do get, it maintains it for the entire way to home plate because I can spin it on almost a true 12-6 axis.

And so it really holds its plane and looks like it jumps and rises and has that deception. So having been a hitter, you know, just long enough, I remember, I know what those fastballs kind of look like. And I know how tough they are to square up because you fight so hard to stay on top of it. And you never can really seem to square it up. It's kind of like hitting a wiffle ball. Like sometimes like it just like slip off the barrel of your bat. Like it's hard to explain.

But once I started to understand kind of what made the fastball effective from a scientific standpoint, it gave me more confidence to be like, all right, I'm not doing this by smoking mirrors. Like there is a reason why this is happening. and if I can maximize that, then I can continue to throw it with confidence and have success. What you said about your pitches and a guy like you who is, you're saying close to 90% one pitch, as a hitter, you go up there and you understand that. And you're like, okay, obviously I'm looking for a fastball. But with your ability to locate it, it's exactly what happens.

You're able to get guys to expand the zone because if they are looking for a pitch, they are getting the pitch, but they're getting it in a position that's tough for them to get their barrel to. So guys, it's just really hard to be, like you really have to be locked in and really try to get you into a plus zone for you. Like you're going to see right here,

Jimmy's going to show, embarrass me here. That one actually is going on right there. That was it. I mean, that's it. But back in 2012, and this has changed a lot over the course, my career too. If you had like a closer set up man in late in the game and your team was down, there was a change. There was off speed. Yeah. I was a change.

Respect right there. Thank you. Wow. Wow. That's right. What a flux. Huge, Trent. Hey, but I and Trev, you might be able to speak to this, but there were teams, there were entire teams that were like, we're going to take until we get a strike. Oh, we were one. That might have been a situation. I remember the angels were one, too. And I remember, like, thinking like, You would show me to lay it in there against Trout? I guess so much would be a guy that would do that. He's not going to swing. You promise?

Look it. You got two that at Bad Treb. You got two there. You think that, dude. I got one. I think the first one was low enough. Look, Doddy Henson said this in a league of their own. High fastballs.

Can't hit him, can't lay off them. That's the story of my life, bro. And a lot of hitters feel the same way. those high fastballs look so good, but they're so hard to get, like you said, Sean, they're so hard to get on top of. You have to consciously make an adjustment to do it.

But then you're putting yourself in a zone that's like you're not going to be successful at a lot. So you, I mean, thanks for showing that, Jim. Way to go. Hey, we got that change up. Do a little. When, how does the catcher communication work with you?

Because you throw 90% fastball. If you throw an off speed is that you, you audiblying or do catchers still send that suggestion your way? Like have you run across a catcher who calls for off speed like way too much and you have to be like, dude, I don't do that. Not that hasn't been an issue. For me, I think at this point in my career, I've kind of been doing it this way for a long enough time that the catchers that I've worked with know kind of what my strengths are.

And so I know that if they put a off-speed pitch down, like, there's a really good reason why. And because they don't do it that often, if I'm like, all right, if I just execute this, there's a high probability that either A, it will work, or B, it will get them off the fastball just enough that the next fastball I throw is going to look even faster to them. and they're not and so there's a you know trusting their their methods and i've been super fortunate with the catchers that i've gotten to work with over the course of my career zook and i go back to oakland um he he caught my debut and you know this year i was i was working i was working with him he and he kind of set the tone too there were there were uh i threw 21 pitches

i think and i threw 21 fastballs in my debut against the rangers in 2012 and and they were There were three times during that outing where he put something else down. And he thought I was messing with him. But I swear, to this day, I swear, I just couldn't see what he was putting down. I couldn't tell if he did, I couldn't tell if he did a three. That's how he did it in baseball. Or if he was doing like a four with a wiggle. And I was like, it was so dark.

Like I was like, so I stepped off. And I pointed in my eyes, I said, I can't see. And he went every time, I just put a one down. I was like, yo. I was like, and that was the Rangers. And it was Nelson Cruz, Mike Napoli, Tori Alba, and Craig Gentry were the first four guys I faced. And I was like, man, like, you want me to throw fastballs to these?

These are the Rangers, man. The 2012 Rangers lineup was no joke. but like there are times where they might there's just kind of like an understanding like I'm like if you just put a fastball down I'm going to try to hit your mask like that's my focal point for most catchers based on their stance I've had some guys that sit taller and I have to use the logo on a chest protector or whatever but like if you want it lower like do something I need like I need you to make that clear to me sometimes when we go away to right-handed hitters we want a fastball down and away,

and they'll put their glove almost on the ground because all we're really trying to do is change their eye level. If I steal a strike great, but I'm not going to get hurt with it. It's either going to be off the plate or it's going to be down or it's going to be absolutely dotted in that bottom left corner of the zone. I just want to walk their eyes out that way a little bit, and then the next pitch usually is on the inner half or above the top of the zone. So if you want fastball, that's not across the top of the zone,

that's when I need like some sort of signal. But I've been lucky that the guys I've worked with, we've kind of, we've worked really well together. Yeah, that's awesome. And how bad was the paranoia between the catchers and the pitchers in the World Series? Because for you, I don't know how. Oh.

Like, was that? How many meetings was there to like, hey, this is how many sequences? I've heard that you guys got a million calls before you guys went into that World Series saying like, hey, just to let you know, this is what you're up against. Yes. Protect about, protect from this. So were you guys well prepared? Seems like.

Yes. We were well prepared and we had the benefit of having a little bit extra time between the NLCS and the World Series because we, we swept in the NLCS. And I believe the ALCS went six games. And so we had like a week before the World Series started. And once we knew we were going to face the Astros, we did have people from other teams and other organizations that were calling to let our coaches and staff know. But nobody knew specifics at that point. This talk was still like, hey, you got to be on top of your game. You've got to keep mixing it up.

Like something weird is going on, but we don't know what it is. And like, so like it was almost, it still kind of had a feel of a conspiracy theory, but we weren't going to leave, we weren't going to leave anything to chance. So we spent one of the days in between series, we spent pictures, got together with catchers. And our video guys gave us a sheet with five lines on it. And they were like, come up with five sign sequences that you feel comfortable using. And I was like, yo, I've never needed to like get creative with my signs because everybody knows what pitch I'm going to throw. So like I was like, do you think I need to like even like spend any brain power on this? Do I need to like focus on this at all when I should be focusing on the Astros? And that's a whole other thing. Like once they get inside your head like that with that kind of stuff, even if even if like, you know, only 5% of your brain is worried about them having your signs when you're on the mound. like that's 5% of your brain that isn't committed to what you're trying to execute and,

you know, swings the advantage a little bit in the favor of the hitter. But I was like, do I need to like think about it? And then I was like, ah, you know, I don't want somebody to like jump ship on me because, you know, I'll do it. And then I was a lot of the first thing about mixing up my science. So like, and I'm talking to these other guys and they're using like, under regular circumstances. They're using like mental math. They're using like different things on the scoreboard, uh, different like sequences of like taps and like the, I'm like what it. I don't. It would take me like a week to study that to feel comfortable. And then you're going to ask the first, me the first time I'm going to have to think about that is in the world series.

Like, all right. I don't, I don't feel good about this. So like I'm starting, I'm kind of having like a panic attack that, uh, whatever, but like I got together with Jan and Zook and we came up with five sign sequences that I felt comfortable using. The catchers had to memorize five different sequences for every pitcher. So what was, yes, so we had the wristband. So what happened was, what happened was like, all right, I would come out of the bullpen. And when Davey would come to make the pitching change, he would bring my card with my five sign sequences on it, give it to the catcher.

So it was, it was yon in game one, I think. and he would give Jan and Jan would slide that into his wristband and I had mine in my hat in the lining of my hat. And then so, Jan was like, all right, we're going to start with set, sign set two. I was like, all right. So I took the head off and I looked at it. And I was like, all right, that's the sequence we're going to use. And then, you know, if the bat would go on for too long, because I came in with a guy on second. So right away, I'm like, all right, we're going to figure out if this works or not.

and like i was like all right so um if this you know the abat would go on too long or you wanted to change it after each hitter he would come out and just give you like hey we're going set three yeah we're going set four and then but the um our video guys would change the sequence after each game so next game if i came into the game and the catcher comes out and is hey we're going set two that's a different set two than was going than the other day. So like, just trying to keep them off balance a little bit. Yeah, I know Gary Sanchez and the Yankees that they didn't run the same set of signs for more than four pitches. Like I was, we were, I was, I made it like a breakdown up, like counting down like. That's crazy. Well, they, they lost in 2017 and had been filing complaints for three years. Like,

they knew good and well what was going on. So four pitches. Yeah. Like if, if, if in that back. got deeper than four pitches, the set was changing. And they were constantly checking their hats and all that. And if there was a good swing, you'd see him change it. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's crazy. Look, hindsight, and I've told this to Doge, hindsight now, the 2019 Washington

Nationals are heroes for taking down the astros. Like, knowing now what we know about, like, them and, like, the organization, like if they win that world series like i don't know man like things are different but like now that like they lost and they lost in like kind of a heart-wrenching way like you guys are like you guys are our heroes we love you everyone in baseball is just super happy that that happened and it happened that way i'm serious dude like i couldn't even imagine if how it would be if they actually won the world series in 2019 it would be a lot different i didn't think about it like that but um nobody wants them winning anymore like

When you were in the bullpen at Minutemade Park during the World Series, were you guys able to watch the game? Or did they have SpongeBob on for you? There was a, there's a TV in that bullpen, which is Minutemade Park. That bullpen is my least favorite bullpen in the league. It's tucked underneath that left field wall, the big, the big left field wall that they have out there. And if you're standing up, the support beams on the chain link fence are like eye level. So you can't see the, you can't see the field. you're standing up. And then you also can't really hear anything because you're set back underneath the wall.

So all the sounds from the game are really like muffled and it kind of sounds like you're underwater. And you just feel so removed from what's going on. So a lot of times actually between innings, we would walk around on the warning track, just like poke our heads out. And that way, the first time that you step onto the field for the World Series isn't when you're jogging. into the game and you're not overwhelmed by everything. So Riggily is kind of the same way too with their where bullpen is tucked underneath the bleachers. But were they messing with TVs? No, no, there was a TV.

There was a TV. But, you know, it's on a super delay. So it's usually one or two pitches behind. But so I don't know. We didn't really look at it that often. When the Yankees were there, they were playing SpongeBob. on that TV in the bullpen Cici was like

they were like calling up people and uh they would have a member of the Astro staff walk through the bullpen like every couple innings just head games galore Ccc talks about it on his podcast like fucking bullshit he gets so mad when he talks about it jeez there wasn't anybody walking around during the game

um there are there are guys that work that manual out of town scoreboard that's in front of the Crawford boxes in shallow left. And every once in a while, they would walk by, like, to use the bathroom. But, like, that was it. And then they would go back to the scoreboard. So there wasn't anybody walking around. And the TV was there.

It's on a super delay, but that's pretty standard for every point anyway. So, no, there wasn't any funny business about that. But, like, we were watching the TV feed to try to see, like, at one point, they showed the train that runs up there and they showed it on the TV and we were like, is there anything in there? Like guys were like all over it. But we didn't see anything. That's funny. Well, as Trevor mentioned, the baseball community genuinely will thank that 2019 Nationals team for almost ever. And man, we've had you for a little bit. And we, and we love baseball here, but we love the dudes, man. And we haven't talked any book stuff yet. And that's all.

in Jimmy's world and in the sci-fi part of that that's Trevor and I both you know despite our sexy exteriors we are sci-fi kind of nerd so tell us a little bit I mean it's you know I think it's funny you open up your Wikipedia and we follow you on Twitter and it's like you know on road trips he goes to bookstore yeah you're in deep yeah you're in deep with this book world did you know that was going to happen no but I just decided to a couple years ago go, just start kind of leaning into my nerdy tendencies, you know, like, and just embrace them. Maybe I, maybe I got comfortable because I'm a little bit more established in the league, but at the end of the day, like, I just thought, like, the bookstore thing would be, like,

a fun way to share that adventure with some people on social media, but, like, I didn't expect it to take off, but it's been so fun, and I've enjoyed talking books with people. Books for me, like, we talked a little bit earlier about kind of the mental grind that can be, you know, the life of a reliever in the big leagues. You know, there's, there's, usually there's no gray area there. You do pitch in some high stress situations. And if things don't go your way, like, it's, you know, it's your fault, but your team lost. But like, so books for me have been like, so far, they've been kind of the healthiest escape for me.

after a game to come home and kind of decompress, let my brain focus on something else, rather than just kind of ruminating what happened during the game. Even if it was good, like you don't want to be, you don't want to get too high on yourself. You can't be walking around puffing your chest out. Like you're the man just for doing your job, just for doing what your team asked you to do. So for me, like having that escape and that outlet has really helped. For some guys, it's video games. For some guys that spend the time with their families.

for some guys. It's golf or hunting. I'm a huge book nerd. I love reading. And I saw from your tweets that you're like in between three books, which is like how I, some people can't do that. They like one start to finish and an end. Is this because you're in too deep?

You're just trying to keep as many books going. But I am also in between three books right now, depending on what mood I'm in. So this is rare for me. I have two books going right now. And I think it has more to do with just my mindset. during the quarantine. Normally, I'm able to really like focus on one book at a time, get super into it, you know, knock it out and, and, you know, finish it in usually two to three days. But like right now, like there's been some days where I've had trouble focusing. Because, you know,

reading is normally like my outlet and right. And some days it feels like that's the only outlet. Yeah, yeah. So like focusing can be a little bit tough. And, you know, sometimes the book just might hit different, you know, in a quarantine or you can't focus as much and you're like, oh, this isn't really doing it for me today. And so I just picked up another one and I got super into that. So I was like, all right, I guess I got, I'm a two book guy right now, I guess. You're reading Keith Law's new book right now? Oh, yeah. Well, shoot, I guess I got three books going. I do have three books going. Yes, I am. They sent it to me as well, but I'm scared because you said it was good. So I'll give a shot. But I think it was his first book.

Smart baseball. Yeah, I didn't like. Why didn't you like it? Was it smart baseball? No, it wasn't smart baseball. It was this other book that I think he wrote. That was just like the way it was written was, you know, Keith Law has a remover of joy as his Twitter bio. And like, that's what I felt reading this book.

I was like, oh, my God. It wasn't smart baseball. So maybe it wasn't Keith Law, maybe something else. I like this one. It's called The Inside Game. and it kind of gets into a little bit of the psychology behind maybe some of the decision-making in baseball. Most of it so far has been about some of decisions that managers or people in the front office

have made regarding personnel decisions or setting a lineup. And it gets into, like, you know, recency bias and stuff like that, like stuff that really, like mathematically, there's nothing to back up something like a high. hot streak or the fact that like a certain hitter might um own a pitcher like it's like all right well maybe he faced him like one time when he was going well that skews his numbers but like you can't just like throw him to the wolves and expect him to hit 400 off this pitcher for his entire career like that almost doesn't happen and that's not sound decision making it's not there's like mathematically there's nothing to back up the idea of protecting a guy in a lineup

mathematically there's nothing to back up like a streak or like riding the hot hand but like these are all things that we accept as you know the absolute truth in baseball and so I like the way like it talks about those things and it looks into them and for if not for anything as a player I'm getting a glimpse into the way like a front office might think so I kind of like that too but that's that's like that's my nonfiction that I'm reading right now. now. What's the fiction? I'm reading this book. You guys might, this is set in New York City. It's called the City We Became. It's a, it is a, N. K. Jemison is the author, and she is one of my favorite authors. She wrote a trilogy called the Broken Earth Trilogy, which is kind of like

a classic fantasy series. You recommended me that series. Did you like? Did you like? The fifth season is the first book. And I put it down. And I think I need to pick it back out. Because I do respect your book choices and you're kind of convinced me to pick it back up. But I think they were going through a very descriptive phase at the beginning. Yeah. I kind of just like, whoa, like it's a lot.

Totally. Totally. And I've got to get through that phase. Yes. And like for, okay, so for a lot of these fantasy books that I like, that I like to nerd out. And like the first like 50 to 100 pages sometimes get a little bumpy and it's not always like the easiest to read because the author is trying to build this totally new world for you and explain all of these different.

There's this is maybe the geography of the land and some of like the folklore and stuff that that it can be grinding man. And there's some of these books they got they got maps maybe. There's a glossary in the back for some of these terms. And you're like, and at first I was like, what am I doing? Like, this feels like work. Like, what am I doing? And, but like, I've learned that if I can kind of push through it and, you know, get some stuff out of it, it ends up, the reward is in the rest of the books.

All right. Fine. Get through it. Read the wiki for the first two chapters. There you go. There you go. but um no but and oh the other one is a is another fantasy book sailing to serantium is the title the author guy gavriel k is huge baseball fan and and i've enjoyed a bunch of his other books and

i'm like halfway through that one right now too so um that one reads like it's set in like ancient rome or ancient greece um really cool stuff so um i you know like i said i'm just embracing my inner nerd here. I love it. I'm not a fantasy guy. I wish I was because then I could talk to you about these books. You're like a history guy, right? Like you're like.

Yeah, like well, like literature. Literature and history. Literature history. What do you read right now? Right now I'm reading, well, I was between swing kings, the new diamond book about the Hidden Revolution and Wild Bill Hickok by Tom Clavin. sick

I like Tom Clavin he wrote Dodge City as well and he wrote one about Ted Williams but his his style is it's just like he's everything I know about Wild Bill Hickok I learned from Deadwood yeah we just did

we have a history podcast Jake and I and we just did we're in the middle of a Wild West season and the most recent episode is all about Wild Bill and I showed showed him some clips from Deadwood because Deadwood's awesome

is it historically accurate it. Yeah, yeah, Deadwood's really, like, really, like, almost on the nose. Besides, they didn't talk like they're from Shakespeare in England, but, uh, but, like, Wild Bill's story is really accurate. That's awesome. Yeah. That's a good series.

Yeah, yeah, I love Deadwood. I watch it. I rewatch it a lot. My girlfriend gets mad at me because it's like, if you don't know what's going on, it's like, what the fuck are these guys saying? Jake, do you want nerd out Star Wars? I mean, you know, again, reading is always a it's been a tough thing lifetime for me uh lifetime for a reader he's a

mr popper's penguin guy no i'm i'm living everybody poops um i don't know i mean i the best thing i got going for me is i i can do the r2 d2 getting shot noise we haven't done that on a podcast in a while but that's all i got that's pretty good have you heard this trev yes i have can we hear it wait can we hear it yeah i'll move the mic back um and yeah my might might be let's say let's get that appropriate girlfriend's in the other room she'll be pretty mad at me she'll know exactly what you're doing she'll always doing his one two d too you're going to be single soon that's all my goodness

that's all I've got no book update but that counts Jake who needs I hurt my heart a little bit when you're a human R2 soundboard I mean that's pretty awesome thank thank you Sean I needed

that's awesome Well, we had a bunch of other stuff. We'll have to have you on again another time or when things are back to normal. You have to stop by the office in New York. Do you have a bookstore in New York? Did you go to the Strand? I've been to the Strand. My favorite bookstore in New York is McNally Jackson.

They have a spot in Soho. They have another spot in Brooklyn. Okay. That's one of my favorite spots. But there's so many that I haven't been to yet. Three-end Company down in Greenwich Village is really good. I have to get out to a story of bookstore in Queens that I were supposed to go there during our opening series against the Mets. But, you know, that's still on my list.

The Strand is cool because it's from like the 60s, but it feels like a Barnes & Noble on that first floor. Yeah. I almost like run to the basement, like get me out of this section. Yeah, yeah. But been there forever. Cool. All right, man. Hey, we'll have you back again.

Thank you very much for sitting down with us. And thanks for having me, guys. Chewing up some of this quarantine time. Hopefully it ends soon. Yeah, man. This was fun, man. I appreciate it. Hopefully we get some baseball to talk about at some point.

Yeah, absolutely. That would be great. Okay, and that was Sean Doolittle, but there's actually more because we just kept talking. So I had to hit record on again because he started talking about how the balls were different in the postseason. And there was a home run that he should have given up to someone. and it didn't go out. Who? Muncie?

Muncie. And I didn't get this recording, but he gave up a hit to Muncie that he thought should have definitely been a home run. It didn't clear the wall. And then he was like, oh, the balls are different. Let's just attack them.

And then we kept going. We'll put that, we'll play the rest of this on the outro. You know what? I'll just throw it to you right now. Now you know the context of it. And then after that, I was like, oh, okay, the balls are different.

And we just started attacking. Yeah. there it is she said she said that there was 90 over a hundred homers that should have happened that didn't in the postseason that's a lot no yes I mean this is number versus she's done using stats so you know track man to you know exit velocity and launch angle yeah but that cast is fake anyway they don't fucking but I wonder but like how many how many homers during the course of the 2019 season happened that shouldn't have been home runs. I agree.

The ball changed, but I think her theory is 2019, the ball changed. It became a turbo ball. Everyone got used to playing with it. Then in the – and we're just going to keep going. But getting in the postseason, they ran out of baseballs. And they introduced balls. Yeah. They introduced balls from 2018 and 17, which were more dead.

And so they were just kind of like thrown in. in there. So, like, you really didn't know unless you were, like, really looking at the balls. You didn't know which one you had. And because of that, she said over 100 homers would have happened. Yeah. And they ran out because they started authenticating more balls during the regular season. Like, if there was just like a random ass foul ball that went into the dugout,

they would authenticate it and be like Nelson Cruz, foul ball, buy it for 50 bucks. Oh, my gosh. That's at least. For me, as a fly ball pitcher, I would love the ball to go back to how it was in 2017, 2018. I pitched really well in the playoffs, so I don't want anything to be taken away from that performance in any way. But, oh, man, it was different. It was different. Do you have a least favorite home run you gave up last year without throwing, like, the hitter under the bus?

but just a ball that came off that you're like, no fucking way. Not off the top of my head. I mean, I had least favorite home runs I gave up because of like the situation in the game. It's a little different. But there were. Do they list? I didn't feel like I gave up any cheapies. Okay.

That's good. Do they list the distance on baseball reference? They got their money, sorry. this is how we have shows with pitchers we tell you how far the home run balls you gave up for yeah no they have it they don't list you have it there no they don't list it on baseball reference i mean what you get you didn't give up many yes i gave up i think 11 one two yeah 11 yeah when i think like three or four of them were in one game against the brewers was in Milwaukee no it was at home That was the three of them.

Yeah, yeah. Yelich, Mustakis, Braun. What a combo. That was dark. Those are Ploos boys. Yeah. That was a dark day. I went on the D.L.

right after that. That was like the writing on the wall for me that was like, you're not right. Like, get yourself, get yourself right for this playoff push. That was, that was tough. Looks like this Jordan Luplo one, 10 pitch battle. Let's take that one back. Which one? Jordan Leplow Indians 10 pitches three two count.

Oh, yeah. See, I've kind of erased that one from my memory because I don't, it didn't affect the outcome of the game at all. No. So to me, like it didn't count. Well, it counted. But like I think I had like a strike out or two after that. And I was like, you know, other than that one pitch, like I pitched really well, I was coming back from an injury. That was like late in September, right?

Yeah, yeah, 28th. Yeah, and I was like, all right, he got me. But like, he got me pretty good, too. Like, if in D.C., if it goes over the visiting bullpen in left field, like, that's like legit. It was like way out of there. It was a loud, loud noise. Phil of Jersey point.

Todd got you. Oh, yeah, he did. That was, so that was during, was that in May, does it say? whatever the eighth month of the year is oh that was August yeah that was that was bad too that was like we ended up I ended up that tied the game and then I ended up getting walked off later in that inning by Conforto double yeah so this is not a fun segment for you this is not what we should be doing yeah I mean you guys Do you guys want to talk about the World Series?

You can end this on a high note for you because I know this is probably what you really are thinking about right now. Your 2020 simulated stats on baseball reference are legit, bro. Oh, sick. Yeah, so you're 13 innings in. You have a 2.08 ERA. You have a strikeout per inning. Like, you're doing it. Love it.

What's my way? Only one walk. One. Oh, that's me. That's me. That's me. That's me. I'm back, baby.

See, what they did was they saw how I pitch in the playoffs and they were like, that's a, he's back. He's healthy again. That's him. We're going to use that to, you know, predict. I love it. I'm going to take that into free agency after this year. Yeah, you already had a point six war. So just, you know, multiply six and you're going to have a big season.

Oh, my gosh. I'm taking that into free agency. I'm sitting sitting back here. this is great oh that's awesome yeah you get you off okay and that's the real end of the interview that was awesome uh long time we didn't get this talk there's still more topics i want to talk to him about so uh hopefully we'll have them on again in the in the future i thought it was funny jake that you opened up with that Arizona fall league uh thing and from there we went right into him hitting and being a position player we skipped the how's it going how's quarantine what was it like

Yeah. We skipped all of that and just went straight into it. Yeah, if you're, if you were listening for that information, he's, I think he said he's in Florida and he's doing it already. We gave you the good stuff. All right.

Travis, you're going to read that book now? Kind of, there's no way you are. I'm going to try. It was really tough. Like, it's really heavy.

And I'm, I like to read. I read before I go to sleep. It helps me sleep. So I have a few books on reading right now. So I got to get done with those. But I'll give it another shot. Science fiction is tough, man.

They do so much descriptions. Like Stephen and Stephen King, just so much descriptions. I like that. Give me the story. Give me the story. That's what I feel like. Yeah.

I want to get into the backgrounds, but this one was tough for me. All right. But I'm going to give it another chance. Okay. All right. Thank you guys very much. We'll be back on Wednesday with a little three of us

talking about whatever the news of the day is of the week. The next new fake plan. see you there thank you for tuning in go tell sean you loved them yeah tweet you couldn't tweet it Lance Lynn but tweeted Sean so thanks is that a poof Bobwhite yeah may the fourth be with you bro so much so much use in soda I'm just flexing right now I'm there he goes you getting shelter somebody that's old yes yeah yeah yeah for sure.