Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 156 | In Good Faith

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

MLB keeps offering the players the same deal in different packaging. Is a 48-game season really on the table? Are they ever going to negotiate in good faith? **This episode was recorded before the MLBPA counter-proposal Tuesday evening** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome back to talking baseball. June 10th is coming up, so that means spring training round two is starting. Oh, wait. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to talking about basketball. My name is Jimmy. I got Jake sitting next to me. We got Treb in California.

Big baby David and his new teeth are here. And we got round three of negotiations. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah Baseball Still not back Still embarrassing themselves Still being dumb

My name is Jimmy You were to do that Jake how are you doing? James I'm good I am in the room next to you We're in the same room I am in the room next to you That's the same statement

That's fine I'm in the room next to you You're okay you're out That's the room next to us We are in a room With thousands and thousands of dollars of technology, sick brag Jake, and you and I are currently sharing an earbud.

Yeah. Shout out. So that's what's going on. I'm excited to wrap with the boys, as my friend Trevor Plouf just said. Trevor. What's up, guys? It's up.

It's a tough day for me. I'm getting dragged through the internet streets. Semi-warranted. I'll say it's semi-warranted. That's fine. You know, people want to come at me for missing the dates. They can come at me because when you look back at it looks like a stupid tweet. But back on May 4th, which I believe is the date that I put it out, wasn't that stupid.

Here's the thing, Trev. You tweeted out that baseball was coming back on June 10th and July 1st. Now, you've been vindicated. Those dates were real. Those were the proposed dates that everyone thought they were going to come back. So you had the right dates. We, I'm part of it with you, worded the tweet wrong. But you were tweeting in good faith that the owners and the players would negotiate in good faith.

We, when we had the information and we drafted that tweet, didn't realize everyone was going to be a bunch of dickbags about it. So I still think you're fine. That's exactly what happened. I don't think you could have stated it any more perfectly than that. they're being dickbags about they're negotiating. So here we are. It's June 10. There is no baseball right now.

Maybe we'll get something after we record this, hopefully. But, you know, if you ride the highs, and I rode the highs for a little bit there, you got to be able to take some punches. I'm here for you. If you want to punch, punch, I'm okay with it. I will say one thing, though, and this might detour. some of the punches. Mm-hmm.

It kind of gets my juices flowing when people are so mad at me. Mm-hmm. You like it? I don't know what that says about me, but it kind of like, I get a little tingly, like, I kind of like it, so, you know, I'm, like, kind of like, I want to egg people on. Oh, you're diving in. You know who's not mad at you? I don't.

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They're not mad at you at all Trev Well they have their right to be. Everyone has they can be mad if they want. I will take it. I have not included you in this gym, but I'm glad you kind of said that. Yeah, I was anybody wants to tweet at me, Jimmy, or Jake, or BBD. That's fine. We are grown men except for BBD. He's a baby. We can take the heat. So bring it on. Bring it. I was hoping that I could help you out, Trevor. with your road stats with the haters fueling you, but you're a lot better at home than the road.

So I can't. Unfortunately, the data doesn't help you there. Is this going to be the in good faith episode? Because we've been in bad faith for a little while. You mean the three of us? Not here. Okay. Not in here.

This talking baseball has always been a good faith area. People've been calling us the good faith pod. No. Which is confusing because that's a really bad religious podcast that I listen to every now and then. It's brutal. Okay. Okay. It's really bad.

Don't listen to it. Tough. Yeah. I don't know what that means for us, okay? Yeah. I don't know if we're going to be doing. We know that there's been no good faith on either side. Let's just be honest about this.

Yeah. Players have dug their heels in. Not that they've really had to negotiate anything. it's basically saying no. Is that negotiating? It's a hell of a job. Yeah, that's my favorite. That is my favorite method of negotiating.

You know, I'm a non-starter guy. You guys have learned this about me. I'm a big don't even respond to that offer. Here's a couple jakey things. In good faith. And Trevor, like you're saying, it is, you know, where people allege us of being anti-owner. Both sides are not a negotiating.

in good faith. And it becomes a little bit of chicken in the egg, right? Because if you have one side negotiating not in good faith, then you can't negotiate in good faith. Why would you? You end up looking like the fool. And I mean, that's part of the problem in all of this. And it's going to be interesting to see where we end up landing on this. Do we still, does everyone still think that the 48 game season pro rata is the baseline? Like, do we think it can get worse than that or no? pro rata is that a cool way to say that i think it's something like that right all the all the big jays are saying pro rata yeah instead of prorated yeah it doesn't feel like it's something that needs to be sure you normally love words like that pro rata like what was the word uh when when the season was getting canceled via the plague they came out

with the word that you fell in love with oh yeah yeah um monsieur jaur force majeure i had it you had it's all over that You had. Forced Major School. Well, just the fact that that exists. Pro rated pro rata. They're very similar and they mean the same thing. So it seems silly to have both. But, yeah, I think the 48 game.

That's a good question for Trev. Is the 48 game season the minimum? Like, are we no longer at there's going to be zero baseball? Or will the players not even do the 48 game? Honest, that's a great question. I want to say that's the best. Thank you. I stole it from.

Jake. He asked it first. I asked it second. I want to say it's the baseline. But obviously, the real baseline is zero baseball. Now, I don't think that's going to happen. I also don't think 48 games is going to happen. You know, another thing that we've been talking about for a while now is the drag your feet method. So good faith method? No, we don't want to do the good faith method. And now I'm speaking as an MLB employee. dragging your feet method now that's something we can get behind here at MLB offices because what that means is by the time we end up making a deal we're going to get our low amount of games anyway and we're going to get the playoffs extended so I think that is still the best guess for everybody you know not 48 games

not 80 games probably somewhere in between that right around 60 games which the more and more I think about it does not feel like a season. I mean, you put out a good tweet, Jake. You said, 48 games feels terrible. 81 games. Feels kind of legit. And it's just that month of games that makes a difference. And I agree with you, there's a big, big difference between 48 to 60 game season

and those extra 20 games. I think that makes a big difference. Do you think that you would crush it in a 48 game season? Like if you're a player trap, you're playing right now, it's 2014, you're going into the season knowing I got 48 games and then the playoffs. Are you getting yourself like all gung-ho and excited about that? Like, damn, hot week puts me an MVP contention. I don't know, man.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's going to be some big numbers. As far as like those counting stats, like for sure, not counting stats. but like those traditional statistics, like batting average and slugging and all that stuff. For me, specifically, I was a warm weather guy. I liked when it heated up. I did not like playing in the cold in April. So maybe I would have liked it. I probably wouldn't have liked a spring training that was my second one that I had to kind of rush through

and then go play in front of no fans. I mean, this thing's kind of a nightmare when you really think about it. Yeah. Do you think players will sit out if the baseline is 48 games? Do you think the big stars, like, that have money guaranteed and especially pitchers or, you know, maybe there's some players out there that have an underlying injury? Like Archer. I think if it's still a full season, Chris Archer probably maybe push it, not probably,

but maybe he considers pushing surgery, playing through it, building up. stock at the open market. But because it's not, he's just like, screw this. I'm not going to lower my status. There might be a lot of players out there with underlying nagging things that may just say, oh, this isn't worth my time. I think there are going to be a few instances of that. And I don't know if Archer is a good example because that is a tough injury.

I mean, we haven't really seen, I mean, to actually go through with that surgery, you haven't seen too many guys come back from it. So for him, I'm ignorant to it. What is it? Thoracic outlet syndrome. It is a real thing. Our buddy, Phil Hughes, went through it. There's been a few guys now, and it's really, really hard to come back from.

And essentially, it's like you're pitching with dead arm. That's the way Phil. I remember when Phil had it in Minnesota, he would be out there for like 30 pitches, and all of a sudden he'd be, like, tired. And, like, his fastball velocity would drop like two or three miles an hour. And honestly, I'd be like, dude, I would say, like, what's go, man? Like, figure it out. like change up your routine something, but he would, he just couldn't, whatever he did, didn't matter,

he would get to that plateau and just. All right. So Archer was a bad, bad example on my car. Yeah, but I do think that, yeah, you're right. I think with the shortened season, some of these guys, some of the best players in the game are having babies this summer. And it's like, if I'm Mike Trout, I'm having a baby this summer. I'm going to make a fraction of my contract in a weird season. I'm sure he's thought about it.

I don't know. I haven't heard anybody being like, yeah, I'm going to sit out. But there are these examples. I mean, isn't Garrett Cole having his first child this summer as well? He's having a baby. Do you think it would be impactful if, say, a group like Garrett Cole, Mike Trout, some of the bigger names in the game, I mean, could they even come out? and say something along the lines of like we wouldn't play a 48 game season.

And even though, you know, having your firstborn or whatever it is, that can be part of the excuse, but they genuinely have a built-in excuse, which is safety, which they're talking about in the contract deals. Do you think that would, do you think that would impact things right now? If Mike Trout and Garrett Cole came out with a team tweet and said, there's no point in us playing 48 game season. Would that do something? What do you think? I think yes, but I don't know.

It would. Of course. That would send shockwaves throughout the entire industry. You're talking about maybe I mean, two of the top 10 biggest names in baseball, if not two of the top five biggest names in baseball saying essentially fuck 48 games. Like what's that, that's nothing? I mean,

it really isn't a season. Then my follow-up that would be not why aren't we seeing that because you kind of get it, but do you think they're getting pressured at all? Do you think, like, I guess the best example that we can use right now

is that when Scherzer came out with that initial statement, I mean, that was boom. Scott Van Pelt opened Sports Center with it. It was, you know, the noise on Twitter for a day, and it was just Scherzer didn't even say much. He basically just said, like, hey, that's a shit offer, no way. Like, do you think those guys? are getting any peer pressure?

Does it work like that? Peer pressure to play? Peer pressure to say they wouldn't play if they're going to do kind of what every baseball fan considers a BS season. I don't know. I doubt it. You know, I think if you look at players

on their social media, a phrase that a lot of them have been saying, which leads me to believe that there's probably some sort of push in this direction from possibly the way. the Players Association. They're all saying, like, we're ready to play. We want to play.

So that goes against that entire statement. So, and that's the truth, though, like, players want to play. This is what these guys know. This is their lifelong dream. It's what they, you know, earn a living from. They want to play. They want to be out there. That's 100% without a doubt.

But we've been saying this for a long time. You can't take. takes concessions today and forget about the what the guys before you have done and also forget about what's going to happen in the future like you got to stand strong today and unfortunately this has all been done in the public when it shouldn't have been done in the public um so it's why don't we just fake it

when we just fake like a letter from coal and and trout Ooh. They don't even use social media. I'll just throw it out there. Yeah. I just got a text from Colin Trout. Say you got a text from a popular MLB, a popular MLB player with a fishy last name.

Mm-hmm. And just throw it out there and see what happens. I mean, can you, I mean, people. Am I like the bad, I'm like kind of the bad boy of Twitter right now? Like I said, when we start this off, I'm kind of feeling it. Dare I say it's turning me on? I don't know. Yes.

Finally. So keep sending that hate my way. Now that you know what it does to me. Yeah. I'm going to start sending you hate. Ooh. Do you think that Jake's option two where the MLB, the owners in MLB know that they will accept and they will break, but they just want to piss everyone off and try and crack the arm.

armor as much as possible is still a possibility because the fact that they sent that third offer, which lands at the same exact percentage, 33% of revenue when players agreed to 50, they want 50, MLB has now offered three different formulas that just land at 33%. Do you think they're still just shoving and shoving and shove and shove and no and eventually they'll stop once it gets to 60 games and all that? or do you think that MLB, Manfred, the owners, whoever's putting together, genuinely, sincerely thinks that the players, the players union, and the public are dumb pieces of shit.

Okay. Those are the two options. Either they think we're all dumb as fuck or they're just fucking around. I don't know, man. I want to say, like, you know, we bring this up all the time. These guys are where they're at for a reason. They're a little ruthless. They think about things differently.

I mean, some of them inherited the money. So maybe those guys aren't because they just got everything given to them. But most of these guys are shrewd businessmen who, maybe they got, maybe some baseball players pushed them around a little bit. They bought a baseball team now they want to say, F you. I don't know, man. I think there's a little leeway. That's what I think.

And I think that maybe they are just kind of trying to crack the armor a little bit. I'm interested to see because it became very apparent to us. And I think it was probably the scariest time during all of this, that the players were never going to come off the pro rata pay. Also known as prorated for those that haven't picked up. Because it's, I mean, it's what the union's been. built on, right? We've done this on here a bunch of times. So I think the one caveat when I laid out my initial three options that kind of was news

to us was the 48 game thing, that they kind of have that in there, that they can lean on that. And it sucks from a baseball fan's perspective because every true baseball fan just knows a month and a half of baseball, you're not going to get true results. and that's kind of been the biggest fear of being a baseball fan this whole time. I'm interested to see because this is, I won't say this is information or tidbits, but we do know, you know, a player we talked to recently was kind of leaving where they were to go back home, which around this date makes me think that the talks were brewing. And think about it's so funny to place yourself a week ago, a week ago,

week ago and where we were feeling like two weeks ago i think it was as sad as we could be and then last week the update was like there will be baseball this year and it was just like in what fashion and i think i think that was part of the owner's plan to kind of get that momentum going that people were like oh yeah baseball will be back it's coming back to the point that players are itching like you said trevor like every player wants to come back and play. Literally every baseball player loves playing baseball. That sound like the fact that some people think that's a take is absurd. But now that they're really itching at the gear and they're looking at Twitter and seeing Trevor Ploof saying they should be playing baseball on June 10th, I mean,

they're getting itchy. And I do think this last offer was the owner's kind of last ditch to break the pro-rated pay. And now the only question is how North of Four are we going to get? And I mean, me and Jimmy were having a spry. Spry's not the word. A wry chuckle the other day? Because when we came into this, we were saying like, hey, let's put a number out there. What's the minimum number of games we need to make this feel like a legit season?

And we landed about like 70. Like we'd like to be a little north of there. But 70, you know, you can't fully hide behind that. If you're, you know, not above 500 around 70 games, you screwed the pooch this year. I'm sorry. And teams still do that in a normal reggae season. But anyways, and it just feels like what you're saying, and I feel like the beat riders were trying to feed this.

I feel like Passing had something, Heyman, a couple other guys that were like, you know, if you start messing around with these numbers and you get to 61 games, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just feels like that's what we're being built up for, which would just be the ultimate, meh, shoulder strug. Like, okay, so we're getting two months of baseball. And it really is a mental mind fuck, though. Like you were saying with my tweet the other day,

how am I really going to let the difference between 62 and 72 games depend how I feel about a season? Probably not. And I think that's what the owners are playing now. Like I saw the tweets today that were going around. I think Jared Diamond had it, and this isn't me throwing. him under the bus, but he's like, I got a text from a friend that said, you know, no matter how

baseball comes back this year, I'm over it. You know, if baseball came out in a half hour and said, hey, we're playing 75 games, all the baseball fans would be in. They'd forget about these negotiations. So I'm still holding out some hope. It'll be interesting because the players are supposed to come back in the next 24 hours, right? So they say. I don't know This sucks No one's not Going to be a baseball fan anymore

If baseball comes back I agree It's just funny It's like it's fans making an ultimatum It's fans Like well here's my proposal If you don't come back You lease me

Shut But the thing that they did miss out on Was a month worth of eyes When people have been starved of sports. They missed out on that opportunity. They're still going to have their fans. People are...

July. Yes, July. Yeah. Well, when does NBA everything come back? July 31st. So there's still time... Yeah, they would have a month. But it just feels like they...

The whole opportunity was the start of July. And it was sitting out there. And it's... It totally hasn't slipped away. And this is the other thing that I think I said on talking Yanks. And that's what I forgot, what I was referencing. But that's where this no deadline kind of sucks. Because think about it.

And what you're getting dragged about Trevor Plu for saying June 10th. And, you know, you were the hottest guy in baseball, but now you're the third ugliest guy on your podcast. And you're just getting dragged and dragged and dragged. Debatable. But what is today? The ninth? What if the players come back and they say, hey, 94 games pro-rated?

Two days later, the owners come back and they say 61 games pro-rate. I mean, and let's say by the 17th we have this figured out, we just lost a week and we could still have opening day on July 9th. And like, everything would still be fine. So I don't know, maybe I'm still hopeful. Maybe the league is blind and they think people are going to eat up the 48 game season. I mean, we are as a baseball company slash podcast. but God, you blew the window.

July is the window. I don't know if it's acceptable for me to do this right now, but I kind of want to go in on Rob Manfred. Just a little bit. Show us your meat. Just like this a little bit, guys. I'm not going to go crazy, all right? Tastefully.

I'm going to present some facts. Can you do a sandwich compliment? Or a sandwich insult? I'm not going to compliment him at all. Okay, perfect. Good start. That's my opinion. This is what I don't understand.

Rob's initiative. Since he came into the league, all he wanted to do was develop the game or change the game so it could suit the new fan. He wanted to shorten the games. He wanted to, you know, we added a wild card team. He wanted to do a bunch of different things with the rules. we have the pitch clock. He wanted the games to speed up because all the new kids don't want to sit and watch a three-hour game. He was convinced they'd want to watch a two-hour and 55-minute game. Three hours, my goodness, we could never do that. So it's been his initiative this whole time. It's not a smart initiative, but that, dude, he loved that. That's all he wanted was a short in these games. Bring new eyes on the game, younger fans. The moment he had the real opportunity to bring new fans to the game a real one not a made-up one like the pitch clock and speeding up the games with giving pitchers less warm-ups in between innings he had a real

opportunity here and he just threw it away he threw it away he's taking baseball away from people all he wanted to do when he i remember when he first came in walking into the clubhouses You know, we're like, hey, new commissioner, let's see how this goes. From day one, new fans, new fans, new fans, this is how we're going to get there. Here we are. He's alienated old fans. He's definitely not gotten any new fans with this. And so all this time, like, was he just bullshitting?

Was this just like the Rob Manfred's stamp he wanted to put on the game? It's kind of a stupid stamp he asked me, but that is that, I mean, like, I don't understand where he's at. Because for years, all he ever talked about was bringing new fans in. He had the golden opportunity in front of them. And he just said, forget about it. Let's just, let's alienate people. It doesn't make any sense to me.

I would love to ask Rob that myself. Yeah, I don't even want, I mean, I go down a whole, whole rant on this subject. And they alienated the fan base by being bad at marketing and in turn blamed the game. Instead of promoting the game, they didn't. promote the game so the game didn't grow fans and the game and then when the game didn't grow fans they blamed the game that they never promoted you know it's like if i write a really good book but i forget to offer it to people to buy it i'm not going to go be like fuck i got to reread this book no one bought it well i didn't offer it you didn't list it on amazon i didn't put it on sale

you didn't list it on amazon yeah i just like put a book in my mailbox and said everyone please buy this. You can only buy this if you come to my house. Come to MLB.com and that's where you can read my book. You can't even take it home with you and you can't share it with your friends. And then no one comes because that's so stupid. And they're like, fuck, something must be wrong with my book. No, like, so you did it, Treve. You made me mad again. I hate, I hate that. Talk about that. Keep that right there. Hold it right there. I got a question. I want you to answer this question. Okay. And let's just let you simmer for a little bit, Jim. Okay. and I kind of want to start with a big baby here. I like starting with you.

Whoa. Do you think Rob Manfred is a fan of baseball? I mean, like, no, I mean, I'm sure he does like baseball, yes, but, like, he certainly doesn't act like he likes baseball. Dude, I bet he's an old head. I bet he's an old head about it. Also, I think he's... You know, he's inside the meat market.

So I kind of halfway think like he can't still be like a fan of a team or players and maybe just roots for good games. But dude, he's in so deep. Everyone hates him. He gets blamed for everything. Like, that's part of the job. He just probably, he probably wants to make one good headline and then just peace out and be like goodbye to everything.

Goodbye to you. That's my guess. Jakey? Yeah, I'll I'll say a younger Rob Manfred probably liked baseball. I mean, I'll say this. Like, let's look at his background, right?

He's, you know, he, he, he, Lemoyne transferred to Cornell and then Harvard Law, smart guy, lawyer. If I normally laid out that person for you, I mean, the chances of them being a baseball fan would be, you know, less than a coin flip, right? That's not true.

If you got, no, if you just got, if you just picked up the average law school. I mean, if you picked out the average person in society, I think it's less than a coin flip. And I, you know, a lot of those people are into studying and stuff. I mean, he's in here, and I think this is what's going to be the comedy show when it's all said and done. The reason he's, the commissioner of baseball, is because he's a labor collective bargaining. I can't even say those words right. because that's where I'm on the map. But this is literally what he was brought in for.

And I think it's going to be an interesting, defining moment, how it lands. And right now it doesn't look exciting. But no, I mean, they've had, as Jimmy hinted towards, they've had some strategic misses. And kind of, like we said, with the 48-game season, baseball's gotten away and they've gotten so excited from the new fan that they've forgotten about actual baseball fans because an actual baseball fan doesn't like a 48 game season.

An actual baseball fan, like you were saying, doesn't mind if it's a two-hour-five-minute game or a three-hour five-minute game. And they've gotten... They've gotten... They've gotten to... They've gotten... McDougal.

They've gotten too far out of their realm trying to bring in these new fans because the NBA got more popular. and the NFL got more popular, that they forgot to take care of some of their own fans. And that's kind of the biggest fear. And understand that, like, understand your product, dude. A diehard fan, a diehard fan of baseball tunes in for 140 games.

They go to maybe five to ten games a season. Baseball games are kind of like podcasts. A diehard. Football fan tunes in for 16 games. Yeah. And goes to probably none at most eight. And that's no, very few are doing that. So like just understand the difference of value that a diehard fan brings to baseball.

It's way more money that I'm giving to baseball than a diehard fan gives to football. And isn't that guy, I'm going to go back to my podcast thing. Because think about Rogan just got the $100 million thing. Everyone heard about that, whatever. And it's because when Rogan puts out an episode, he has people glued in for two hours. Baseball, sure, you might not have the mass numbers that NFL can pick up because everyone plays fantasy football and they want to come into the office and say, ah, hell of a run by Dalvin Cook, huh?

But what they do have is, like Jimmy said, the people that are tuned in are so tuned in that they got to focus on that more. I feel like we're in a little bit of a slippery area, and I want to, something that's been on my mind. I'm mad at the players union if you guys want to flip it and. All right, let's do that. I'll save my thing. Can I give Manfred a compliment?

Yes. People will say we're the fairest boss. Then you could have done the sandwich. You could have done the sandwich. I didn't know what you were talking about, bro. Okay. I don't eat sandwiches. Look at his body.

Yeah, that's true. We hate so many sandwiches. I love sandwiches. Me and Jimmy look like we're made of sandwiches. Yeah. Walk on a sandwich. Well, I don't know how much of a compliment this is really going to be. Okay.

All right. I think this might be a backhanded compliment. Okay. But a compliment nonetheless. Might be an insult. We talk a lot about what Manfred's got wrong. And I will say it's a thankless job. I think, I think Adam Silver, he plays it.

So maybe it's not a thankless job. Like he, even Roger Goodell is getting pats on the back right now. Holy crap. Like, Manfred is the most hated commissioner in sports right now. Surpassing Roger Goodell. I told you to me a bad kind of comment. I knew I was going to do something like this.

Anyways, the one thing that he has done well that I like is he has implemented that extra wildcard team. The wild card game has been great. Gotta say, good job there. He brought the game to London. Brought the game to London, which is great, because that's what they need. Great.

Okay, well, go ahead, Jim. Okay, let's go out the Players' Union, part two. The Players Union just banned Boris from, he was going to pay all the minor leaguers that got cut, just the remainder of the season, two-month salary, to help them out because they've fallen on hard times. And I understand, like, you know, he then gets a lot of future clients and they don't want him, like, you know, being able to do that. But hey, other agents, you can do it too. So the Players Union just banned Boris.

They disallowed Boris from reimbursing his released minor leaguers. His released minor leaguers, actually. So they're already his clients. They banned him from helping him out. So now he's giving all that money to charity. And I just tweeted out like, the PA is in the middle of a fight with MLB. And now they decide to flex on the minor leaguers while doing it.

Like they are fighting so, hard on one front to get players paid. And on the other front, they're just taking money away from minor leaguers? It's a bad look. It is. There's got to be, there's got to be a reason for that. Okay, like, yeah, you discussed it a little bit. I think they don't, like, he can then.

They don't want people meddling. Like, you can, players, oh, they, you know, I think agents can't give gifts and shit like that, but like, come on. Other agents, step up, help out. I'm hoping that means that MLBPA is stepping up and doing something. That's what I'm hoping. The minor leaguers need a union or they need to be represented. It's kind of crazy.

It is a little crazy. I have asked that question for years and there's really no straight answer. Did you hear what Tony Clark told a player? I forgot who tweeted it out. I don't. I probably don't. Who is the player that went at Trevor Bauer? The old pitcher, Loche.

Or it was Cody Decker. Someone tweeted out that when they made it to the big leagues, they asked Tony Clark, how come they weren't represented, how come minor leaguers aren't represented? and Tony Clark responded, well, you forget, you weren't supposed to make it. Could be out of context. I mean, that's not a good statement, Tony. What's true about me? Yeah, look, I don't, I wish I could sit here and give you an answer of why that hasn't happened.

Maybe because they. Cody Decker. Cody Decker said, Cody Decker said, shout out. What's that? I like Cody Decker, so shout out, Cody. So he said after he made the big leagues and he asked the question why I'm no longer protected by the union. So he kept asking, why am I not protected by the union as a minor leaguer? He said, Tony Clark said, well, Deck, you got to remember.

You were never supposed to make it. I'd like to ask Cody about that conversation, you know. Yeah, that's crazy. It doesn't sound like, what are you doing? It doesn't sound like something Tony would say, but I also not calling Deck a liar. Okay. Hey, what's up with Tony Clark's facial hair, man? You think that, like, you think that's like a good look to go into negotiations?

No, and I'll be honest with these. Got some bad style as well. Very baggy. Very baggy stuff. He's huge, though. The guy's like six-ten. He's not, but it seems like. Yeah.

He's a big boy. There's old pictures of him with the go-toe when he's on the Diamondbacks. Badass. There's a picture. Like, if he has. had, ah, look at this facial hair, Jake. Let me see. If he had that facial hair.

Oh. He's winning. Any, everything. Turn your computer towards my computer. Oh, God. So we're doing a computer turn off. Yeah, a little computer kiss here. If you can't see, I mean, he's got a full beard.

You're seeing that? He might have that right now. Does he just have the goatee right now? No, no, no. He's just goatee in. Now he's got, I'll show you. It's good content. Now he's got just the goatee.

I mean, we need full beard, Tony Clark. Just got antique. Tony Clark, you're not winning anyone over. You know, you look like you're trying to be a lawyer from 1890. He's, he's a, I could see why people, I mean, I was actually there when we voted them in. But I can see why people, and we did vote him in unanimously, but he's a presence. When he walks in a room, he's big, he's got a booming voice. He'd be a great podcast voice.

It's a very deep. He's a booming voice. Yes. Well, how do you like, do you like the fact that Derek Jeter only called Joe Torrey Mr. Tori? No. This whole career. Well, Tony Clark was the only other player in the league to call him Mr. Tori, Mr. T.

So guess you hate Tony. Their relationship with Joe Tori is their relationship with Joe Tori. But, I mean, any coach I've ever played with is like, especially a former player, like Joe Tori, they're like, don't you dare call me coach. you know, like maybe you call the manager skip, but call me by my name. And per usual, we're going to wrap up with 15 minutes on Derek Jeter's career. No, I've had something I'm sitting on.

I don't know if we want to play the sitting on music. You guys wouldn't be able to hear it. No, no, no, no. Jimmy will play a noise in our ears. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we have to play. We have to play the sitting on it music. Sitting on it.

Sitting on tarot. Ooh. I used to do this. It's kind of groovy. Yeah, no, that dance works. It's kind of shake it up. Sitting on turlitt. Skags.

Okay. Sitting on a turlet. Turn that music off. I'm over it. Now flush. So a big focus of this negotiation, and it's been the players. The players this whole time have been, like you said, in this podcast. You know, we have to think about the players before us.

We have to think about the players that come after us, right? And that's why they're not going to give in on the pro-rated pay, etc. That's, you know, that might be, when they do a bullet point presentation on this, you know, 10 years from now, the number one thing on there might be the players not coming down from the pro-rated pay because they need to keep that up going forward. I've got something for you, Trevor. And maybe you could send this up the pipeline because I actually just had a DM conversation with, Actually

A DM conversation? Maybe take that out. He doesn't need to come down with me if I'm going down. But no, I'll ask this. Do you want to edit that out? Maybe. We'll see.

Yeah, probably. Maybe they mark it down. Yeah, mark it down, BD. Everyone snap in your mic, so BBA sees all snaps. So. I need to know what it is first. Now that you got me hooked. Because first of all, I'm a little pissed that you're like

Yeah, I know. That's partially why I did this. You brought something up. I will tell you after you're done. I have something to tell you guys as well. Okay. Well, so maybe we need to edit this whole thing out. Maybe we won't.

No, no, no. Mine's good. I messaged a player. I message a player because I had this thought. Normally, Jakey shower thoughts. If the owners are sitting there kind of smug, like we, not smug, excuse me. The end game of this is the 48 game season, right? They negotiated this in the first contract.

Let's run 48 and figure out a winner. If the owners feel that 48 games is enough of a season, then next labor negotiations, do we need to play 162? Maybe we bring it back to 140, 120. And then I wonder what the owners would say about that. Well, that's, yeah. Because that feels like a big negotiating chip right there, no? I agree.

And that's been a point of contention between the players in the MLB for a while like 162 is egregious if you guys think 48's a fine number then why do we need 162 because when games are profitable they want a lot yes that's the biggest thing like so what I love it whenever I just rope a dope it everyone whenever I think about this it makes me so mad and I want everyone to like have this thought with me right now all right every other year in the past 20 years has been super profitable for these teams. You've never heard them once complain. The one year where those are global pandemic, clearly not going to be as profitable. They are crying poor. The owner of the Cardinals came out today and said, owning a baseball team,

not a profitable business. How mad are the other owners at him right now? He bought his team. He He said a lot of dumb shit. He said some good things. He said a lot of dumb shit. He bought his team for $150 million in 1996. His team is worth over $2 billion. I understand it's not all liquid. We talked about this last pod.

That's not even counting the revenues that were, I mean, record revenue year after year. That's not even counting that. We're talking about franchise value. Don't sit there, Mr. DeWitt, and tell me that owning a baseball team is not profitable. Because if that's the case, Get out. Sell your team. You're a shrewd businessman. You're smart. Why would you be in an industry that's not profitable? He had some other bad quotes, man. He had some other bad quotes. He went on a radio station and like tried to defend all this. He had a good point. He said, well, well, you know, revenues have increased, but and everyone keeps saying that players payroll hasn't increased with it.

And he said, and this is half, like a half a good point and an interesting note. and then like half like no dude no and let me just find the number i know what you're saying i already i already read this too i can't wait he said he said that non-player personnel has jumped from 240 people a team to 400 in the past six years which which treb you have said like every team has a masseuse now every team has multiple masseuses the amenities are better the analytics are better more scouts, they are investing more into the product. But, I mean, we're talking about, like, you know, when you talk about player salaries,

you're talking about millions of dollars. When you talk about masseuses and chefs and technicians, you're probably talking about one million total. And aren't those in there as the ploof rules? Because didn't you basically set all that stuff in motion, Trev? That's not true. There are some pluf rules, but that's not one of them. I have a rebuttal to do.

that, Jim. I think you don't need to rebut it because I think it's a good point by him. You can rebut it. I think it's a good point by him. But if you break down the numbers of those people's salaries, like I doubt it's anything. So I would say to him, Mr. DeWitt, if you're listening, maybe he's a talking baseball fan.

Big fan. Dude, I don't think so. I mean, Jack Flaherty's on here all the time. Maybe he's, this is his prized guy. Right. DeWitt, if he listened to any of our shows, he wouldn't have went on a radio show. investing in player development Mr. DeWitt

probably a good thing so all the stuff you didn't have before that you have now upfront cost yes but it's just like anything else it's made to either a save you money or make you more money

these guys don't just put their money somewhere to lose it the reason that they decided to start using player development and different tools is A, your farm system is your lifeblood. You can pay those guys to come up and perform for you when they make nothing,

essentially, league minimum. That's one, player development. That's invest in those players, our home guys. Two, in the big leagues, the amenities, that's keeping guys on the field. You don't want dead money on the injured list. So let's keep these guys in the field. $60,000 for a masseuse for the earth. small price to pay when you're paying guys $30 million to perform.

You want some preventative stuff. That's why they do it. Now, don't get me started on the fact that these big, huge, awesome stadiums that are being built to house these teams mostly aren't built by the owners. That's the tax-paying citizens of those cities. So if you have to spend a little money for your nutrition budget or your preventative, medicine or whatever it is. Don't complain about that.

Are you kidding me? That just means you caught up and are finally understanding the benefit of it. It doesn't mean you're doing it to be a nice guy. This guy's out. I'm out on this guy. I'm out. He had a funny quote, or at least the way the article wrote it up. And MLB trade rumors is a really good site, and I like the way they're right.

And I think they're pretty even-handed. they wrote DeWitt insisted that the owners want to make the season as long as possible but he also said and I quote

at some point we have to do the right at some point we have the right to implement a season and pay full salaries and the only way it makes sense is with a shorter

season but he insists that the owners want to make the season as long as possible so I mean you can't say both those things in one

conversation. Again, I'll go back to the team's year after year making record revenue and then the one year, the one year that they might not, they are crying poor. It's crazy to me. He also did a little bit of a strong arm tactic here. He said, we understand if we implement a season, a shorter season, that they will get full pay, but in total they'll make less money. So it really doesn't make a lot of sense for them to continue to hold out. I'm out. He also said, Trev, that they asked him, like, why can't, why won't you push the season back, you know, to like winter?

And instead of saying we're fearful of Corona coming back in a second wave in the colder weather, which scientists have told us, which is a perfectly fine and logical answer and something we've heard before, he said, and I quote, it's a bit of a ridiculous proposal. Imagine Christmas shopping while you're watching the World Series on television? Right? I mean, what are we doing? That's fine. Sounds like my wet dream.

It sounds like a fun time. Just like searching Amazon while the World Series is on. Christmas morning World Series? Like, that's getting, like, he knows pot and bothered over here. He knows basketball plays, right? Like, sports play. Just want to feel right, man. Yeah, I don't know.

It just seems like there's a good answer to that. I have to clear myself. Talked about the Cardinals Stadium. This is a lot of numbers here. Looks like the Cardinals did put up a lot of their own money to build the stadium. Good job, Cardinals. It says initial funding for the $400 million cost. They put up $90 in cash, big number, $200 from the sale of corporate bonds and land,

which they value at $20 million. So they put up a big chunk and then this is this is this is the caveat here and take this for what it's worth, but I want to be thorough. So I'm sorry that I said that they probably didn't pay their stadium. It looks like they did. But they do not have to pay a 5% ticket tax to the city anymore. That means they're keeping an extra 5% of their ticket sales for themselves. I don't even know where to go with that. They get 5% back that they used to pay to the city,

which means they'll recoup all the money they put in quickly. They probably already have. Yeah. It's a lot of numbers. When you said a lot of numbers, I kind of tuned out. We can't just be saying shit and then not being able to back it up. So they did put a lot of money into there. I've got two last things I want to say.

One is related to this. One is completely not. I will probably save the completely not for the end. I will say this. I out kind of an unpopular opinion when the owners, offer came out, I kind of took it as a decent sign. I know in theory the offers are very similar pay and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'll say this. One of the big things out there is health risks and the amount of games. The owners have shown, was their first offer 81 games? Was that the most

games they've offered? And then this offer was 75, something like that. So, 75 games? Who said that? What was the last owner offer? It was 75 games at 75% right? That's university, yeah, okay. And then I think their first, the original offer was 81 games on the sliding scale, right? So, and let's go back. So the first thing in this is supposed to be health

and how many games can we play. So the owners have already admitted that we can play up to 81 games. That's, they've admitted that. Yes. Pay-wise, they've admitted that they will pay full pro rata for 48 games. And now we're already up to 75% for 75 games. It feels like in my head, what I hear is we've got amounts of games we can get to. We're getting closer to the fully prorated.

We're not there yet. It's just what it lands at. And again, I'm hoping this no hard deadline. Kind of sucks and Trevor gets dragged for five days and then we have a plan for 72 games. But I still don't know. Nobody does. Yeah, I think there was no movement because it was still just the same 33% and a hard no. Right?

I don't think we've gotten anywhere. Kind of, but I mean what you also have to think about it, this is we are not in good faith negotiation. So the players can't come out and say, hey, We don't mind 76 games give us full pro-rated. Like, decent offer. They can't say that. So, I mean, either way, they were going to come out and say,

we don't like the offer and it's not safe. And that's exactly what the card they played initially. So I don't know. I took it as a semi-sign of progress. It's still not great. I hope the players swing back. And if there was a time and the players showed some good faith here, I think they could come out big winners.

because, like, you've been on Jimmy for most of this. The owners normally get the good PR, and they haven't. Like, if the players came back and said, 81 games full pay and we'll get started right away, and they rhymed it, man, I think they would get a lot of love from the fans right now. And I think the others would say no to that. But I do agree.

I mean, that's a great message. I love the way it rhymes. People love that. Thank you. I don't know, man. I'm biting my tongue. Jim's biting his tongue. My second statement, and I'll just get it out,

and I might be done speaking. If Carson Tucker is on the board for the Yankees with the 28th pick, Cole Tucker's little brother, and the Yankees don't take him, I will eat one of the plants in my apartment. We have that on record. How are you going to eat it? I'll eat.

I've thought about this. There's a couple that I could just eat. I mean, it's grass, right? It's just different forms of grass. Oh, so you're just taking a bite out of a leaf? No, I'm going to eat the whole plant. Okay. What I'd do is I'd put it on the frying pan.

Okay. Cook it down. And then I'd mix it into some meat and make plant tacos. Ooh. Sounds pretty good. Can I segue king this right now? Always. Yeah.

I have two segways off your. Double segue. Incredible. Okay. Just bear with me here, peeps. Double segways. dangerous your legs get split right from underneath you. We needed these?

Just for us. Okay. Wow. Isn't that pretty cool? That looks great. That's nice. Yeah, that is cool. Real tree.

Take a bite right now. Uh-oh. We got leaf in the mouth. What's it taste like? Pesticide? I go leaf. Okay. Anyway.

I ate leaves once. I, I, I, I had a middle squad of a leaf eating face. People thought it was crazy. Like that kid will eat a leaf. I'm like, yeah, sure. I don't care. And I eat the leaf.

And then they'd be like, he did it and he ate the leaf. I'd be like, who cares? Wasn't a great leaf. I'm not going to lie. Second segue, and this is the one I'm most excited to share with you guys. I'm going to want Kyle to clip this to put it in a clip. Here we go. Cole Tucker, a friend of the pod.

Would you say he's like a friend of you guys? I'm trying. I mean, actually, Jake's like... We have each other's numbers in our phones. Yeah, I think Jake sent some lewd pictures, actually. No. Well, Cole Tucker texts me later today just to say hi to see how I was doing. Wow.

I mean, I thought there was going to be some kind of ask or something. No. Did you... Did you... Did you show your wife, or is she kind of like, who was that? And you're like, nothing. Don't worry about it. Just some young dude I crush on.

I didn't show her. Yeah. Yeah, smart move. Yeah, smart move. Yeah, smart move. When you and Cole Tucker... When you two go to your concert together, if you don't let me at least sit a couple rows behind you

or run and get you guys beers or something, I will be pretty sad. Matt Chapman is losing his grip. Wow. Biggest man crush. But then I also think... think, like, he also might be tightening it because he's, like, the one that got away, kind of. Ooh, yeah.

Oh, okay. He just, like. He doesn't even care, and that's tightening your grip even more. Yeah. Dude, I had my first, I had my first running with that lately, because I mean, normally this is, if you're in the realm of this, you want it. Um, dude, fucking Jake from Cespita's BBQ. Yeah.

I'll text him some, like, random baseball stuff because I know he likes baseball. Yeah. And he'll leave me hanging. for like two days and then he'll come back and be like nice Albert Bell and I'll be like fuck you dude but then I almost then I almost want to text him more because I'm like if I'm gonna text you you better yeah you're I can't text I can't text him we're bad I can't nobody wants to be affiliated with us right now we're like the probably the most wholesome jacket wearing bad boys of the internet baseball Twitter you know ecosphere probably the most wholesome

baseball pod going. But also that. I kind of like me to bad boy, Jim. Yeah, I know, but you're not a bad boy. You were tweeting in good faith. Anything I tweet is right. I texted him on Memorial Day. I said, happy Memorial Day

and a nod to our duality as Jakes. Because I think that day the MLB offer came out and there was something about duality of the offer or something. I was mocking baseball. He didn't respond until Saturday. I mean, that's on you. That's a weird one. He didn't respond until six days later, and he said,

yo, are you watching the 2000 All-Star game? And I was. So, you know what? You know what? I'm done. Carson Tucker to the Yankees, baby. Carson. That's a weird.

We're already setting that first interview afterwards. Here. We'll be on the spot. Yeah. I don't know if you guys heard, but I'm friends with his brother. IG Live it All right We're out of here

Thank you everyone for hanging out with us for a bit This is your favorite labor dispute pod On all of the podcast apps right now So give it a five-star review Skag's forever, baby Jake sucks