Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 159 | Tell Us When and Where

Episode Date: June 17, 2020

The negotiations between MLB and the Players' Association have gone nuclear. There is a growing group of owners that have stated they do not want a season, but the players are good to go. They just want to know when and where they gotta be for as full a season as possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Talking Baseball, your number one labor dispute pod on the app. Let's do it. No headshaking from Trev, serious. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Talking Baseball. My name is Jimmy. Sitting next to me is Jake. The corner of the room we got BBD.

And in California, we have the one and only Trevor. Plouf, who just turned 34 years old. That is correct. How was the birthday? Anything good happened? Did the kids wake you up with pots and pans? Pans even? We had a good day, man.

I really did. Obviously, there was some horrible baseball news on my birthday, but I was able to escape that world for a little bit. Went out to a nice dinner. I had a nightcap afterwards. All in all, it was a successful day. I even made it back home in time after my dinner played a little online poker with my crew. Couldn't have asked for a better birthday. Did you get any presents?

I did. I did. Nice. Anything good? Pretty typical stuff that you get when you're a 34-year-old. You don't get like toys or necessarily anything cool anymore. I got some clothes, some shoes. And I think the most unique thing I got was a running belt, which I've been asking for for quite some time.

Nice. That's awesome. Jake, how was your non-birth day? I don't know. Trevor, I want you to turn that frown upside down, although you and Tony Clark do share the same birthday. Happy birthday, tone. How is your day? But yesterday was a great day for baseball. It's one step back before you take two steps forward. It's death before something is reborn. I think yesterday was the bottom. And I somewhat sincerely think that because holy Toledo, huh? Not the idea. deal day. I'm doing okay. I kind of love this camera view of me. You liked it last time we did it, too. But at the same time, I kind of look like Jim Carrey in the Ace Ventura montage when he gets

sunburn and pimple on his face and gets autographs because my face is pretty still red from going outside on Saturday. So I'm generally well. Highs and lows. Little food poisoning last night back in the game. Birthday, food poisoning. I got a huge pimple. on my nose, Trev, that I've tried to pop prematurely and kind of just, like, scratched up now, and I got a Rudolph nose. It sucks. So it's a red nose pot. Jake's got a red nose.

I got a red nose. We're about to punch BBD in the face. Give him a red nose. Oh, there's so many people I need to punch in the face right now. Yeah, Treb's not happy. Bad. Bad. And I do think, Jake, that you're scared that there's going to be no baseball and you're trying to

spin zone yourself very hard. just think the players have won the war and everyone's afraid to say that. We'll get into it. But yeah, I had a funny moment. I'm wearing my gray outfit, my grout fit today. I've got my baseball is fun shirt. I've got my I love baseball hat. I'm thinking there's,

there had to be one or two people that looked at me and is like, well, he's got to be feeling a lot of different emotions. And I just don't want to change my shirt to baseball was fun. Oh, yeah. That'd be a good, like, TikTok, though. Always is. Yeah. Haven't seen a bad one yet.

Hmm. There's a lot to talk about, Trev. There's a lot going on. Where do we start? A lot of bad blood. I guess we can start by just catching the audience up on what transpired. And then we can give our thoughts and tell them why it's transpiring. And what has transpired is I don't even remember where we left off.

But the players said, enough of the nonsense. Just tell us when. And we're ready to play. very strategic move. We'll talk about that after I finish this. The owners, the players said this on Saturday and said you have three days and we're counting today, Saturday, and we're counting Sunday. So you have until Monday to tell us when and when, where, how we're going to play.

And the owners yesterday on Monday stalled and said, oh, we're running into more situations. we will only play if the players sign a document waiving any legal action that could take place. Now, what does that mean? You may be like, what the fuck does that mean? It's very strategic move. The players pushed MLB and Manfred into a corner and just got them good. Like, got them real good. And the reason why is, when they say 10,000.

tell us when and where we're ready right now. There's like 70 games, 70 days worth of games available. The league doesn't want that. They only want to play 50 because that's the least amount of money they can lose. So, and if they were to come out and be like, all right, good, 50 game season, here we go. Well, you chose 50 games when there's clearly enough space to play 70. You're operating in bad faith. the players would file a grievance right away.

So the league said, we will only do this if you sign a waiver that you won't file a grievance and basically admitted that they're operating in bad faith. Because why else would you be scared of the grievance if you're not, you know, if you haven't been operating in bad faith, you would not be scared of the grievance.

It wouldn't be on your mind. But they know that the players are going to file a grievance and they know they're going to lose and in the process can have to open up their books and they're so scared of that. So this was a stall tactic by Manfred. And as soon as they did it, Trevor Bauer, every reporter, everyone that's been following this closely called them out right away.

And it was like, we know what you're doing. And once again, Manfred, the owners, and the league think everyone else in the world has rocks for brains and has never been part of a strategic strategy or negotiation in their lives and think like, we're billionaires. They're not billionaires. They don't, they can't. They'll never pick up on this. And everyone's like, you're so transparent.

It's very obvious what you're doing. So that was a rundown of what happened. And my thoughts, I'll kick it to you, Trev, because I know you're very upset. I am very upset about what's going on. And I want to say something that may come as a surprise to people. I kind of feel bad for Rob Bantford. Okay.

In this situation. Not in the sense that he's making $20-something million. a year for I don't know why I guess when you're the when you're the face of the owners in a 10.7 billion dollar industry you deserve a little bit of coin there but he is taking the brunt of the fallout from all this and that is that's his job okay he's he's done he's yeah he's a puppet obviously he's done a horrible job in things that he's wanted to implement but all of this this this this back and forth these negotiation tactics I really don't don't believe that this is Rob Manfred's wishes.

Maybe it is. Maybe I'm completely wrong about that. But the guys behind, the guys, the guys behind Tim, the guys that employ Rob Manfred, we're starting to see a little bit more and more each day that they don't really care about the game of baseball. And you can hide it and just use Rob, but when you got guys coming out and saying stuff like the Cardinals owner did. and then you start having a little bit more information about the books coming out and exactly,

you know, what their revenue streams are. And the fact that they, and there's been six to eight different owners that have expressed out loud to different sources that they'd rather not play a season than give in, that just tells you that these guys are ruthless. And I got to say, I tweeted this out today. you got two options here in my opinion if you're the owners come out and say that publicly the six to eight of you that don't want to play don't hide behind a media asset in your back pocket don't hide behind the commissioner come out and say it yourself if you don't want to do that

guess what sell your team if you own a baseball team this is not like any other business where you just try to squeeze as much profit out as possible that's not okay in this instance because of many reasons we've talked about on the pod before, specifically taxpayers funded stadiums. You know, the fact that your local economy relies on you, all the tax breaks that you've got from owning a baseball team, you're able to hide a bunch of money, use the money from your franchise to do a bunch of different stuff.

Look at this guy. He doesn't care I'm going off. Hold on. Teddy Plouf making an appearance. The only guy that can make me happy right now just showed up. The Lizard King himself. He wants to know where my iPad is. It's a good question.

I don't know. You were running high. I needed that. I needed that. Yeah, you did need that. You were saying if they own a team, you should either sell it or baseball. It's not a normal business.

You have to take into account the city and the community, okay? Because you are benefiting from the city and the community, taxpayer dollars like I mentioned before. This isn't cut and dry. So if you don't like baseball and you don't care about the growth of the game or the future of the game, sell the team. There are plenty of people out there with money to buy teams that want to buy teams. So just do it. Get out of the game.

You are ruining the game. You are ruining the business that you're in. So cash out. Cash out. Get your bill. You're one, two billion dollars. Some cases, three, four, four. billion dollars. Take the profit on that. Get out. That's where I'm at with this. And I'm so sick of it

that I want these guys out of the game. Yeah. And a couple things. First, in whatever little defense we can give to Rob Manfred trying to be a switch hitting pod. I'm back. I don't want any. Manfred's out to. I don't feel bad for him. Oh, sure. And that's fine. But, you know, think about the two statements. The 100% unequivocally will play baseball and then he comes out a week later and says, I don't know if we're going to play baseball. Do you think Rob Manfred wants to say that? No. Those are the guys behind him saying, have fun out there, little guy.

Knock yourself out. And I think what's important in this game of mouse and part of the reason I am being gung ho is the owners really only have one card to play and that's COVID, which is the initial card and we'll see how long they can drag that out. and we saw them try to throw it out there. But the other sports are already proving that they have plans to play. I mean, we have a soccer tournament coming up. I know lacrosse and then, you know, supposedly NBA has a plan.

They're kind of trying to back out of that. But other sports are going to come back. We're circling back to Jimmy in the grievance. And I want to circle back to even earlier than that. We knew this was going to be a shit show. The first time, I think it was the passing article, came out, and there was that little bit of verbiage, that was talking about if there was going to be fans in the stands.

And we talked, there was four arbiterers that got reached out to. Two of them said it would hold up. One of them said it wouldn't. The other said he had no idea. Appreciate that guy. And then we knew that this. Why didn't you even ask me? Yeah, I have no idea.

I'm actually non-arbiter anymore. And so we started going back and forth on this dance. And I think one of the pivotal spots we landed on was, well, A, the owners, nobody started in good faith. And, you know, you could, if you want to start with the owners, if you want to start with the players, fine. We were never getting 112 games. That is what it is. The owners trying to crack the unions, like holy grail of them not accepting full pay. None of that was in good faith. And the owners have just been on a slip-in slide of between saying that it's not profitable business and then the playoff deal comes out. And just, they've done a litany of extremely dumb stuff

while treating the public is dumb. And now we got to this point where everyone found out that Manfred had this 48-game season button, that he could basically push at any time, right? And so, you know, we kind of, everyone got win that there would be baseball in some form at this abbreviated sprint season. Sure, let's see what it looks like. And then about a week later, Bobby Manfred comes out during draft night and says, unequivocally, there will be baseball this season.

Rob Manfred, the hero of all heroes. Guess what? That was actually what the players were waiting for. Because now they said, well, let's roll it out there. And then you start going into those key little lines again. And the key lines say, you know, in good faith, which both sides, it's not shattered, but the owners for sure when they come out saying, hey, if we do this, let's just agree it was in good faith.

and it's like, okay, that's classic not good faith line. And then I think there's that one line in there that says something about trying to play the most games possible. And the players with this quick little, you know, tell us when and where, have unified the whole players union. I think it's hilarious that, and we're going to talk about the slogan a little bit, but it's such a baseball guy slogan that they've just stumbled into the when and where. and now they're asking when to play.

They're ready. They've said it. And if the owners are negotiating in good faith, that contract clearly says try to play the most games possible, and they are not trying to do that. So I think the players have won the war. I think Manfred, you know, he's obviously fallen on multiple swords, that I think it's getting close to the point where the owners might even turn their backs on him

And just this thing has gotten so ugly and so bad in the media. And there has been such an outcry. Look at all the media people. Buster only. Passing's turn. Carl Ravich. All of the short kings of baseball media have now turned on the sport. Where if I'm the owners, I'm saying, hey, there's only one way out of this.

We throw Manfred to the wolves and move on. And that's what I think's going to happen. I mean, I love that. It was great. but the optics, we know they don't care about. That's been proven time and time again. I also think that the owners, like you're right, the players have one.

They trapped them into a corner. They've beat them. The owners aren't going to let them beat them. I don't think the words. The owners are going to take their ball and go home and say it was too dark to play. I think they're going to let him be Rob Manfred. I don't think the owners are going to say they got the game. And then what?

And bring someone else in that does what? Yeah, just another puppet to get abused until they bring in another guy. I'm like 95% there's no baseball. It's really looking that way right now. And the thing that, you know, we're always saying the owners are two steps ahead. They're so smart. They're so this. They're so that.

Not this week. Not last week. No. No, they got got. They've been terrible. Who reported on it? Someone reported on it. I forget who they said that a lot of the owners were shocked that their employees like stood

up to them. Which reporter? Like, you know, spoke with some. I don't know. So those reports like, um, Rosenthal just said there's eight owners out there that actively are trying to not get a season to be played. Eight. I mean, eight strong nose. They're going to persuade some more people. And then you're looking at really close decision.

Like, I don't know. At this point, I'd be shocked if we get, because it's just going to be a grievance will be filed. That'll take like months. years and in that process the sport just gets damaged even more the owners get damaged even more there's no win for the owners besides blaming corona and health and just getting out of dodge that's the that's the biggest win for the owners right now and think about that think about like what it takes for you to use a global pandemic as a bargaining chip in the business that has treated you so well that has multiplied your network

two-fold at least each of these guys. Sometimes many more times than that. This is the kind of people we're dealing with. And like, you know, you said the when and where is a baseball guy thing, and it was, do I think it was a little bit tactical? Sure, but the players mean that. But they mean that, okay? It was cool to see them like just kind of flex their unity.

on everyone again. They did it earlier, and I think the league was like, oh, fuck, these dudes are really unified and not going to bend. And then in the middle of this, having every single player,

Trout, call, every player tweet out the same thing at the same time, tell us when and where we're ready to play. It's just another flex, like we're pretty strong right now. So very strong. I've said that from the beginning

since I've been on this pod. This is a very strong, union. Guys know the history of the union. They understand what guys gave up before them. They understand what that means for guys after them. It is a very, very strong union, which says a lot because we come from everywhere across the globe.

And we have different rules to enter the game. You have Japanese guys getting posted. You have Latin American guys as free agents. Pretty much everybody else has free agents besides Puerto Rico, Canada, and the U.S., they get drafted. You come from all walks of life, but you understand one thing. You got to respect the people that have come before you and the people that are coming after you. And that's what we're really seeing here.

And these guys, they are baseball players. This is what they've trained to do their entire life. And I think what people don't realize is, is there's such a small window for baseball players to make their money. Okay. And yeah, you can point to a lot of guys that make a ton of money. the trouts, the coals, that's not, that doesn't represent the league. Okay, most guys have, I don't know what the average career span is, it's three years, three and a half years. I think it's around three years, yeah.

Okay, if you think about that, let's just break it all down right now. Three years, league minimum, you're going to make a million and a half bucks. Okay. To get to the league, you probably spent four to five years in minor leagues and then seven years total. to make that million and a half bucks, whatever the math is on that 200 grand a year for seven years. Okay, it's a lot of money, but then you're done. That's it.

All right, I have it here, but the... So you better believe that every player is going to be trying to protect that window because you sacrifice a ton and the stats are against you, astronomically to even make it that far. They're going to protect that window at all costs. The average salary is 4.36 million, but I got to believe there's a lot. There's a lot of really, really big ones bringing it down. What's the other math from the medium, medium, whatever it is?

Mean median in mode. Yes, the one that pertains to this. But even if we did that. The number that came out earlier was that 65% of the league makes less than a million dollars. So and the average is like three to five years average length I listened to a passing, a friend of the pod A little interview with Rich Eisen And basically, and I thought this summed it up well

You know, the league has been And on say the league MLB has you know Seeing record revenues year after year after year Over the last decade And they've won in the CBA five or six years ago and they've just taken piece by piece small pieces from the players and they've done things to the players that seem small on an individual basis like service time manipulation that add up over time and now we're seeing this players just like not you're not going to take

this away from us as well we're going to stand strong we see see what's going on here. We see that as your revenues have doubled, tripled, our salaries have gone down. All your analytics have basically taken away any mid-range player. It's superstar or league minimum player. And guys are, I mean, that's just not going to stand. So you're seeing the players unified now. I'm scared for this season and I'm really scared for after next season as well.

If you think we're a labor dispute pod now, my goodness. And I am sick of it. Sick of it. Isn't it nuts how all the reporters, you know, everyone's trying to tow the line and we tried to share both sides as best we could along the way. But at this point, you got Buster only going in on the league. You got Kenny Rosenthal, Mr. Nice Guy Bowtie going in on Manfred, which is a lot. a representation of the league. Has Kirkchen got involved yet?

If Tim goes in, we're all lost. That just means the simulation broke and we all died. Yeah, if Kirchon gets mad, I mean, turn out the lights. It's, um... That's probably what MLB's got going for them the most. I don't think, I don't even know

if he has or not. I'm going to check this out. Timmy, no, he's been just lighthearted with his baseball content. He's the best. I don't think he's left his little room where he records his videos. It's there. The full basketball rack is so funny. He's hilarious.

Can I ask, I'll ask you guys this question. What has changed your perspective on the 48 game, Commissioner Manfred, smash the button in play? The grievance. It's the grievance. Well, they'd get a grievance anyways, no? No, not if they claim Corona. Then there's no grievance. Well, that's that is their out is if they claim that's what they're going to do.

That's, I believe that is the other leagues. The other leagues are going to play and the union would still file a grievance. But it's a little difficult. The other teams have bubbles and just playoffs. And I don't know if the other teams are even going to play anymore. Here's their options right now. This is what MLB can do. These are what they can do.

And one of these options they're going to do. One, they're going to, which is not going to happen, I don't think. Let's pray for number one. Number one is they come back and they realize that the public outlash has been horrible and they say, you know what, let's just take it on the chin here, guys. 72 games, full pro-rated, let's go. I think they could drag even more than that. I think they could.

Well, that's number two. We'll do, you know, hey, we need a week or two to report. you guys are going to need three, maybe four weeks of spring training to get healthy. And then, you know, we want to maybe leave a buffer week just to make sure, you know, the COVID hasn't spread or anything. So they can still buy themselves a month and back into that September 27. That's the number two option is that what they're doing now is another stall tactic. You know, obviously it's a very transparent stall tactic, but they could just be saying, hey, we're trying to make sure the health is right. and two weeks from now they'll say,

okay, it's right, 60 games. Third is that they blame the virus and just shut the whole thing down. The implement of 48 game season right now is off the table, 100% off the table. I think if we had any owner, any front office person on, they wouldn't budge at all

that they've been, had that they've been pushed into a corner, that they've been transparent, that they're negotiating in bad faith. I think they would tell you the players have. Players are greedy. I don't think that they think, you know, they haven't succumbed. Like you said, they might be like, all right, we got to take this on the chin. I don't think that they will ever accept it.

I don't think so either. What has shown us that they would be, you know, just a new leaf and be like, you know what, we were wrong. You guys are right. let's play 70 games. Tim Kirchian has to come in. Tim Kirk. 0.0 chance.

Maybe there's a 10% chance. They do the stall tactic and then offer the 50 games. And then the players say, okay, we'll do it, but we're following the grieving still. Maybe, but maybe not even 10% for that in my brain. I don't see a way that this, we get baseball played. You're dark. You're out. Dark.

Why would the owners do it? I mean, they have. Been so stubborn. They've got TV contracts and other deals that they still have to fulfill. They want a postseason. There's still ancillary stuff they have to deal with if there's no season, money-wise, that still doesn't break well for them. They want to have a playoffs.

Trevor, you were just going there. They want a post-season. Yeah, but not eight of them. I think that 48 game button is still there. I mean, hey, man, if it's eight, that still means there's what, 22 that want something? Or are indifferent. Math pot. We don't know if there's eight that are heavily four.

just know that there are eight that are against. Right. Six to eight. And I just don't know. I think that press go in case of emergency button is there, there'd still be a very profitable playoffs. And like Trevor saying, with the tight union, if he hits that button, they're going to play. They filed a grievance and play, and dirty stuff will still be aired in the media, but the union is tight and they will play. I guess the only question, and it's like, let's say this was real. Let's say it's us three. We're with Tony Clark. He's brought us in. He's heard how all three of us are commissioners in our own right.

Go check out the John Boy Media Store. Get your shirts today. And we go in with the owners and we meet with the owners committee that's been doing all this. We also have Scherzer with us. Just kind of like intimidation. Oh, I'm scared now. Mad Max. We're all scared then.

And let's say, hey, everyone, there's no mics in here, no phones. like what's in this room is in this room. Trevor, what if the owner said, here's the deal. We want to throw Manfred onto the bus. We want to get this solved. This turned into a mess. Here's 75 games, full pro rata, but you guys cannot file the grievance.

Is there any way at this point the union would not file a grievance? Yeah, if they, if they, If they came up and tried... If they really did it. Okay. If they came up and said 75 games right now, full pro-rated, I don't... No way that happens. I don't believe that's going to happen, but I think if they did that, then there wouldn't

be a grievance filed about them not trying to play as many games as possible. Even though that's clearly the case, but like if they did that and there was like that olive branch reached out, I think that that would solve it. I just don't see that how. happening. And if it did happen, I would be shocked and I would be happy. Could the players bring that to the negotiating table? Because clearly it's now on the table and the owners have fear of it. I don't. The players should keep them in their corner. Yeah. This is, this is like, don't let, don't help them out of the corner. Right. But they could just drag their

feet even more. They could just like not respond. If they continue to drag their feet, then that is where like they'll, they'll say, okay, yeah, now we can play 55 games. Right. And there's still an option for a grievance there because they've dragged their feet just i mean for for months now like here's my question the whole health thing that they conveniently said hey we have some players that have tested positive for COVID like that means anything for the season that was really fucked with Jake kind of just briefly touched on that in the midst in the midst of this because they're prepping the MLB is prepping to use COVID as an excuse and, you know, it rightfully may be an excuse.

Maybe sports shouldn't be played. But there are a lot of dialogue and agreements, you know, they were trying to play baseball. The MLB offered to play 81 games at 75%. Yes. So they weren't scared about COVID-B-ins. Yes, yes, yes. But they're prepping for that excuse.

Maybe they don't 100% want to use it yet, but that is their one out. No grievance, no season out. And they leaked that there has been positive baseball players that tested for COVID. but obviously, you know how many people have tested for COVID? That is such bullshit. It's horrible.

It doesn't make any sense. That's just, I mean, again, that's kind of how these negotiations have gone. I mean, just like a weird, I don't even know. I don't even know what's a call. It's not even a negotiation what we're going on right now. No, it's there a word for what's happening. It's just passing dog shit back. You know, but this has been a long time coming.

I think that people are starting to realize that now, this didn't happen overnight. This isn't just because there's no season this year. This isn't just because there's a pandemic going on. This has been quietly or maybe not so quietly brewing over the last five, six years. As we've seen, I think this is really important for people to realize. Like, as analytics have come in, that has really divided front office from player. because a lot of, I mean, I don't want to speak for everybody, but a lot of the front office analytically driven people

are newer in the game. They don't necessarily care about the game. They care about numbers, winning, which is good. And a lot of assets are facets, analytics has been good for the game. Player development, it's helped a ton. But they've also used analytics to, suppress salaries.

They run these organizations now strictly by numbers. Players, they're not people anymore. They're just strictly numbers. And they'll operate trying to manipulate the system in their favor any way they can. So it's created this wedge in between the players and front offices where we've talked about they're, like they've had to create titles for people to be, liaisons between the front office and players because there's just no feel. Quality control coach.

We need Sam Fold to come. Samfold. I almost want to shine the Samfold bat signal and be like Sam, can you fix the game of baseball for us? If Sam Fold and Stephen Vote came out and made a joint statement together, I think we could fix this all a day. Those are my eyes. Do you like all the players tweeting?

Like, is there a part of you that's like, ah, this is corny? I honestly think that's the way they feel. I mean, I'm just speaking from my perspective. I mean, like, that's all I did. My entire life was play baseball to make it to try to do this. And now you got to feel like it's being ripped away from you. For really no reason. For at a funny,

or at a funny visual in my head because Gary Sanchez just tweeted it. He said, we are ready to get back on the field. Tell us when and where. And I can't picture Gary doing that. I feel like he was on the phone with, like, Judge or Severino or someone was like, So what do I type? Okay, can I send this?

This is what I said? I think that's, send on it. I think that's what you're missing in the corny part, because I understand what you're saying. A bunch of guys going on Twitter and saying when and where. Yes, there's a corny side to that. But I think it's funny that it has to be so basic. And Trevor, I don't want this to be a shot at the bow at pro baseball players,

but, you know, from ages, a lot of these guys from ages 18 to wherever they are now, they've been kind of told what to do on a day-to-day basis. And I think the when and where is so basic and straightforward that it's been beautiful. It's been perfect. I also think it's a legal thing. Like if they go to a grievance, they can be like, look. Look how they all wanted to play. Just documenting it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the MLB drags us for another week that we get these like every two days. Send out another wave of when and where. I've been proud of the way players have handled it. this. You know, we've had a few instances where maybe some guys came out and said some things they shouldn't have said, or at least, like, were taken out of context, or maybe they... Just the time. Snell was the only one that really took the cheese. Snell was the only one that really took the cheese. Since that day, I think the message has been much more, for lack of a better term, unionized. And I thought, I think that the right guys are speaking out. You know,

a friend of the pod, Sean Doolittle, responded to a tweet about the eight owners who didn't want to play baseball this season. He said, well, we have 1,200 players here that want to play baseball. So when and where. Like, this is that, it's not phony. Is it a tactic? Sure, but they really mean it, too. These guys are sick of this shit.

All they want to do is go play. They want to get paid for the games they play, which doesn't sound so stupid to me. You know, I think what still needs to be said, and I can't believe this long into these negotiations, like, needs to be explained, but I think it does. Players have already taken a pay cut, okay? Rob Manfred took a 35% pay cut for this year. Awesome. Good job, Rob. Sweet.

Players have already taken a pay cut. Depending on the amount of games they play. We played 81, which we're not going to get. That's already 50% of the pay that they've negotiated, gone. people aren't understanding when the owners are like we just want 20% more that's on top of the already 50% or whatever pro rated pay cut they've already taken so this isn't like the players be like no we want to get paid for games we don't play or haven't played that's not the case and I can't believe I have to say this but I see it on Twitter all the time people are like they need to take pay cuts

they're not playing right now well it's like they already did they're not getting paid right now at all there was a two-month window where they got X amount of cash split between the teams that ended in May that's been gone they're not expected to get paid for anything except for the games they play that is it

and I don't know who needs to hear that but there it is I mean yeah full pro-rated is the compromise yes yeah I um it's man I don't even know where to go anymore

with all this I'm so so sick of it. Do you want to talk about the two non-drafted free agents the Orioles just signed? Not really. Unless there's some special story. No, no, no. Because that's going to piss me off too, Jim.

That's going to piss me up the way they did the draft. Are you kidding me? Yeah. What are you doing? What are you doing to the game of baseball? I have a question. Jake has a question. Something I've been wondering.

Jakey questions. Jakey questions. And I... Here he goes. He's going to ask it. Is... A. Is Tony Clark doing a good job?

B. Is Tony Clark doing the same job? And he's just being compared to Rob Manfred. So now he looks a lot better. Or T... Or C. Tall and skinny. 6-8-200, I think he was listed at.

Treb kind of said this. Treb kind of said this a while ago. That... Trev said this is the most leverage the union has ever had to get a win against the league. And the only scary part was you have this deadly virus that's kind of hanging over everyone and no one wants to hear about money issues between players and owners. And you said that, Trev. And we were like, yeah, it's very touchy and, you know, you can't hard sell it and all that.

But I don't know how much I'm applauding Tony Clark. or not because the owners fuck themselves more than that. But they did put them in a corner. The unification has been great. I don't know the behind the scenes. All I know is the union's handling this well.

I can say from experience with Tony, I was there in the room when he got voted in. Do you vote for him? I did. Wow. It was unanimous. And having an ex-player be the head of

your union hasn't worked out for basically any other sport. So that was the thing that we were a little skeptical about. But he'd been around Michael Weiner and learned and was a great speaker and a unifier. And I think that's what he's done well, is when we, that is his name, BBD. I see you laughing at that. How old are you? That's the guy's name. It got him and then it got me.

And then it was kind of going around the room. My wiener is what it sounded like. That guy was incredible, and if you ever listen to him speak, you'd be like, this is the V guy. Okay. So what Tony has done well, though, as a union head is he's kept everybody unified. When you have a meeting with the Players Association, he draws you in, he has a good voice, he's a speaker, and every time he left the room, whether or not you agreed with everything he said or thought that, you know, the meeting wasn't as good as you wanted it to be, you felt unified with your fellow players.

And I think, I mean, this sounds stupid, but like, he can speak Spanish. He speaks English, obviously. He's able to unify everybody. And like I said, at the beginning of this pod, we come from everywhere in baseball. It's very hard to do that. And he was, he's been able to do it. I think that has a lot to do with player reps as well. but I've said this from the beginning. Players are going to be, they're going to stand together through all this. That's just what we've been taught since day one. It's what we believe in.

And to be able to continue that through something like this, I think that means to me that he's done a good job. Were there things that we all wanted him to do differently? I'll say one right. The last CBA still is terrible. I don't believe that's all on Tony. It's almost like a man for the thing there. Like he, he's not a legal guy. Like, contract negotiation is not his specialty. So he has to surround himself with people who are going to do a better job this next CBA, 100%.

What's this guy's name that's been doing it right now? Bruce Mayer. Bruce Meyer. So, and he's new. Oscar Meyer Wiener. Yeah, yeah, stop with that. Bruce Maine's been a long time listener of ours. Thanks, Bruce. Yeah, what's up, Bruce?

Bruce listens to everything. So I think that, like I said, I think that this is a very difficult time to keep players on the same page and he's been able to do that. And now you're seeing, like, that has turned into a huge win with this slogan. I will say, I was about to say

before you interrupted me very rudely, Jim. Now I forgot what I was going to say. Oh, yeah. That's my bad. One critique, my one critique on Tony, and I'm sure he knows this. Like the statement after statement after statement, like let the owners put, let Manfred put out dumb statements and just let them sit there. Yeah. Because everybody realizes that how stupid they are.

My one critique would be no more statements. My only counter on that goes back to the baseball player imagination and skill set a little bit that I think Tony has to put that out there. so guys, if guys are looking for something to do with the when and where, they just retweet that. So I think that's like literally the only reason. Look, he's four or five months ago, if you would ask me the same question, I would have a different answer. I think that's, okay. I think that, and I respect Tony as a person, and I believe he's a good guy. I loved hanging with him, talking to him.

you know, I did a lot of stuff with the Players Association as a player. But I think when we look back on this particular quarrel, we'll say he did a good job. Now, come 2021, we'll see. Do you think that we should go find every MLB player that didn't tweet when and where and shame them? This guy doesn't want to play. Yeah. man i don't know is mike trout says it it's like like patrick beverly came out and was like if lebron james

says we're playing we play it yeah i love that and now it's like if mike trout and max scherzer and garrick cole want to play derrick cheater we're playing he's a good question okay where's where's where's derrick doing derrick you're a player and eric's kind of man derrick's kind of he's kind of he's I'm trying to Manfred of the Marlins. Okay. Speak out, man. He just owns a piece of the Marlins, but he is the public face of the ownership. Yeah, like Magic Johnson when he was with the Dodgers.

Totally get that. But be a liaison then. Try, like, for the good of the game, you have to realize. Oh, that'd be so unjutor like. Jeter steps away from anything. But he'd be the king? You know, I don't want to use a C word. Don't make me use a C word right now on your guy.

Carpet. It starts with C-O-D-D. Frozenest. Cowardous. Why? Like why? Why step away? Everybody else is speaking up.

He's kind of an owner, right? He's an owner. He's kind of an owner. Bridge the gap, dude. For the good of the game. For your pocketbook. Speaking of the Marlins, I love this tweet by Patrick Saunders. Well, Patrick Saunders quoted Agent Joe Wolf.

The Marlins played without fans for 15 years, yet still managed to give a player the biggest contract in sports history and then sold the team for a billion dollar profit with five competing buyers. Dude, that guy, Loria. Yeah. What an evil genius he is. Yeah. Pay for my stadium.

Oh, I need stars. Okay. Here you go, John Carly. Here's a backloaded massive contract. Oh, yeah. by the way, we have a TV deal coming in. Do you see the star I just signed for $300 million? Okay, pay up.

Oh, you paid me for my deal? It's good now. Hey, who wants to buy my team? We got a brand new stadium, a superstar, and a TV deal. Come pay me a billion dollars for it. Do we have fans? No, who cares? They didn't care about fans at the time.

Now they really care about those fans, don't they? Flipping houses. He just watches those shows a lot, and he figured it out. That guy, wow. Some new paint. They're smart. I've never, I'll never say the owners aren't smart. Do you see that video of Garrett Cole throwing a bullpen?

I did. I did. I mean, everybody shared it. Impressive stuff, right? Impressive stuff. Just wish more people like baseball. How does this end, Trevor Plouffe? I know Jim's gone dark on us.

I'm, call me an idiot. I still think they play. I'm waiting. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. I think, I think the owners come out with some like, in four weeks they're like here it is everyone we're doing 57 games and everyone's like this is such too little too late and then we'll come to grips with the season we'll watch

it we'll have some fun and then at the end of the playoffs we'll be right back in the same fucking seat talking about labor negotiations that's where I'm at I think we're gonna have I think we're gonna have a groundhog stay I think they don't care about the fans opinion that's what I oh I actually I know that it's good for the sport I know that they don't care about what the fans think. I get that. There's a lot of dumb fans out there. I'm not the biggest fan of democracy.

But listen. But listen. Whoa. They're going to do whatever it takes to not have a grievance filed. That is the only thing they care about now is no grievance. Because they do not want to open the books up, dude. That would be detrimental to them. I think I know what's going to happen.

crap that's how much money you make that's how much money you keep those are the tax loops that you guys have holy shit yeah they don't want what about what about this plan trev what if manfred gets a meeting together with all the guys we're talking about coal trout sherser all the biggest names and the biggest stars closed door meeting in a hotel conference room somewhere and before the meeting starts manfred gives himself covid and then sneakie is in costs on everyone. He went dark. He went dark early.

I mean, it's a strategy. That's an option for me is they will use COVID to get out of a season. Even though they'll lose hundreds of millions of dollars, like that's when they'll actually really lose money as if there is no season whatsoever. But I, but there is a part of me that believes they'll do that to avoid opening up the books, which is insane. That tells you everything you need. to know.

So, in my opinion, I still believe they get a season done. I still believe somehow the owners can flip this and become the good guys. But it's going to take them saying, we want 70, we'll give you guys 70 to 75 games full pro-rated. And that has to happen. It's happening. It's either that or they don't play any season. I want to direct my questions at Jimmy, but they're a little too positive.

Is there any chance for the hero moment I've been talking about? Is there any chance that there's Dayton Moore, who had his kind of pro player quote, and he's got an army of like 12 owners that want to get this done that are going to come in the room and say, hey, let's just fucking do this because, oh, baseball is the reason why our value has gone up tenfold. Is Dayton Moore an owner?

What is he? Is he a GM or an owner? He's the GM. GM or a president. He's not, he has, they don't care of this. He was something good.

I thought, he's a great GM. I mean, I'm not saying anything away from him, but I don't think he has any say in this. So, but if you're saying, are there other owners who want to play baseball

that could come and step in and say, we're going to put our foot down, let's go, let's get baseball back to the people? I don't know. Yeah. Maybe the poll ads will.

Poll ads. Do it. Somebody's got to do it How about that? I have an inside source telling me the Steinbrenners have been sending texts

every day to every owner let's just fucking play you're scared of us you pussies you're scared of us how Steinbrenner just texting every owner Oh too scared to play the Yankees

you old bitches I do want to say I was watching that cold bullpen video stuff looked a little flat Okay. You didn't even know what pitch he was throwing a flat pitch, Trev. Cole's not in the book.

He opens every bullpen up with shea pitches. Just to improve. Somehow I missed him. Do you ever face Scherzer? I didn't look this up. Don't do that. No. Shurzer owned him.

He did? I genuinely didn't know. He owned me. Yeah, we've talked about it. I had a shower Jake moment where I think if if Max Scherzer was on the mound and he did his, you fucking bitch, you fucking bitch mother. I'm out of the box. I'm out of the box.

He wouldn't do that to me. He respected. What's your say, Max? Ha! It'd be a good. I mean, if you really want to, I mean, this is this stuff I want to be talking about. Dude, I'm glad he owned you, Trevor.

Now I'm happy. Jake Peavy was the funniest guy on the mound with that stuff. Let's labor dispute, see you later. Let's talk about some fun stuff. Like angry? Jake Pea would be on the mound, but like, I don't think he like actually would cuss. Sure.

But he'd say stuff like, gosh darn it. Like just really like, but loud and just like mad. That's, but that's how he pitched. And you'd be at the box, like, what is going on now? Like he doesn't even see me in the box. Yeah. Like that's what you think about those pitchers. Like he doesn't even know there's a hitter.

All he's trying to do is just throw that ball the best he can and wants to get me out and he's going to be pissed if he doesn't. that I mean, Scherzer's, I love, like that whole, like, video of him doing that is hilarious. It's amazing. It's straight out of a movie. Let me ask you guys something. You wouldn't believe it in a movie. Let me ask you something.

Trevor's asking us something. Is this the best young collection of talent? Tread, did you not see my tweet? Jimmy's got a stat. Jimmy's got a stat. Oh, you did? I didn't see a tweet. Yes.

It's the 2019 had, it's a clanky stat. But 2000, so first I did. What war is like an all-star season? You know, and it's four, four to five. Four, four. So I did it at four, Trev. And then I did most seasons with players under 23 years old that accrued four wins above replacement.

It was 2019. And all the like other places, you know, like second place, were all within the last 10 years. I probably used the word accrued. There's a ton of young talent in the game. And also, guys, it's of all races right now. We have some of the best young Latin players in the game. Ronald da Cunia.

We have a Japanese superstar in our game right now. So there were six players that accrued more than four war in 2019. In 2015, they were five. That's the second most in the history of baseball, or since like 1950. then the third is 2012, then 1964, awesome year, two guys named Jim, then 2018 is fifth, then 2016, then 2013. So like, we've just had nonstop. And someone was like, someone's like, it's always young players. I'm like, no, we're not talking about young players.

We're talking about young studs. Like guys that are having big, big seasons. So anyone's interested in 2019, it was Acuna, Ozzie, Devers, Victor Robles, Juan Soto, and Fernando Tatis. Think about that. Latin players, there are, like you just named him.

Those guys, Vladimir Guerrior Jr. These guys are absolute stars that are going to carry your game into the next generation. And get to a new fan, get to younger fans, okay?

You have Mike Trout, who's arguably the best player to ever play the game of baseball right now in his prime. You're wasting that. Not to mention all the other young white guys, whoever they are.

a ton of them. There's always is because they're full of white guys. But then you have the African-American players who represent a much smaller population of the game than they used to. But they're stars. Tim Anderson won the batting title last year, right? Marcus Stroman is a star. Jack Flaherty is a star. We can go on and on with these guys. Like I said, we have a Japanese star. Who might be the second best player in the game. Haven't seen it since Bay Bruce. Your guy, Cici said he's the best player in the game, maybe the best player in the history of the game. We have these players. It is global, young, global superstars,

and we have owners that don't want to play baseball. Yeah. There's a lot of good responses to the tweet, too. Like, imagine if they didn't manipulate service time. That would be even more. We have a German superstar. Some others like, Bichet, Yurdon, Guerrero Jr. aren't even on this because they didn't play enough games to accrue enough war.

Soroka on there. Canadian. So, I mean, yeah, the amount of young studs. The old kid from the Cardinals is a stud. He's Canadian. I mean, it's, MLB has gotten to kind of a point that I feel like it hasn't been near in a little while. I always make this comparison with the NBA. The NBA rolls through and you know a dude on that team.

You know, Trailblazers, Dame Lillard's coming through. Pacers, Oladip, whoever it is. Dalla Dane. Dalla Dane. Dalla Dane. Pretty good rapper. He can spit. He can spit.

time you hear guys athletes rapping don't want it or athletes doing any music barry zito not not so much for me go around the league i mean pretty good pita pita lanzo joe west met austin meadows i mean you you could go team by team and you're gonna a 28% 28% 28 out of 30 of who has like an actual star on their team orioles are probably out tigers out after that have guys after that have you seen what Whit Mirafield does when he's right? Runs, hits, catches and throws. Witt's old. He can pass. He can...

Love Witt, but he's old. He wants to play baseball, though, Treb. I love Witt. Witt. Is it a ball player? Big time. What's his real name? Whitney? Whatever.

Whiting? Witch. Whitley. Look, I don't... Whitley? Whitley. I don't know. Whitley Merrifield?

That's a... Pretty good. That's funny. That's a funny name. His only option was baseball. Whitley Merrifield. His wife's name is Jordan Michael, which is funny. Jordan Michael.

I think there's a lot. I feel like I know a few different people that name them Jordan. What is... Whitley Merrifield is like a British dude from 1870. I was going to say it sounds like an old British TV show. Yeah. Yeah. Whitley Merrifield?

Yeah. At your service. But the point remains. Yeah. We have stars. And they've been, and all. Yeah. I got to take a breath here because I'm getting mad.

Take a breath. Teddy, come back. I took my sunglasses off because I was getting feeling better. But what did you forget? I forgot. We have stars in the game. And forever, all we've heard is these baseball players don't want to market themselves. We can't force them to do it.

Dude, these guys are all over social media. They understand how that works. They were going on MLB IG doing live stuff until we're like, nah, no more of that, dude. Did the players put an end to that? I don't think it was like a player like,

there wasn't like a union call being like, don't do that anymore. I think guys was like, why are we doing this? Yeah. What are we, why are we going to help them at all right now? If people want to do that,

send them to John Boy Media Instagram. And they have been. They've been coming here in droves, baby. John Boy Media. But like I'm saying, They've been talking about that. We need players that are marketable. There's never been a better time,

a better group of more marketable players than right now. And you guys and the owners are holding them hostage. They need more Trevor Plouf eating ice cream in the clubhouse commercials. I was not marketable. I'm not going to lie. Okay. I get it. I love the commercial.

We have it on Loop in the office. I did some other stuff. Did you like our birthday song for you? I did. Thank you. You're welcome. I thought Jake could have sang it a little bit more upbeat. Well, he's tone deaf.

Started, I got distracted back. No, that's not true because he's been excellent in his music parodies. Yeah, he's not tone deaf. He's pretty good. I got distracted by all the Joe Mauer highlights, so I ended up singing happy birthday to Joe Mauer. I love Joe Mauer. Love Joe Mauer.

I'd let Cole Tucker sleep with my girlfriend. I want Joe to come on here and just air it out. I texted Cole Tucker. And? You know, we're just good friends. Well, he wished me a birthday. Did he? Did he? Fuck him.

Fuck him to the moon. He asked me my, like, opinions on what's going to happen. I was like, that's weird, man. You're a player. I want to ask you. And I also sent him a song, you know, a victim music video. I think he would enjoy. We're all best butts.

Jake, what did you forget? Oh, I DM Delman Young something funny before the show. No response yet. We'll catch up on that next episode. He's in Australia time. He's talking baseball. No, he's here. He's in California.

Treve, come on, just trying to help Jake out. Come on. He for sure saw that. It's unread. It's unread. He saw the banner at, though. Mr. Normas. I'm playing the exit music. Try the last words.

It's playing. I love baseball, man. I just... I hope we get it back. Jack sucks. Oh, Tucker.