Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 163 | Koshien is Baseball's Version of March Madness

Episode Date: June 26, 2020

Koshien: Japan's Field of Dreams is a documentary airing on ESPN Monday, June 29 about Japan's annual high school tournament. Japanese legends like Masahiro Tanaka, Shohei Ohtani, Hideki Matsui, and Ichiro, among others, have all turned in dominant and historic performances at Koshien. We talked to director Ema Ryan Yamazaki about the history of the tournament, the making of the documentary, the way baseball is beloved in Japan, and the Japanese stars playing in MLB today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome back to talking baseball. We've got a unique and interesting and really fun interview for you coming up today. Let's do it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to talking baseball. My name is Jimmy and sitting next to me is Jake. Producer BBD's in the corner. Trevor is not with us today.

He is enjoying the Santa Barbara son and sand for his father's day. retreat. So just Jake and I, but we do have an interview that we recorded yesterday and we are excited about. Tell them what's it on, Jake. Tell them how you're doing. Hi, Jim. Hey, we interviewed Emma Yamazaki. Nice. She was the, do you just say producer, the filmmaker? Director. Director of Koscian. And I always, honestly, You want to know, I have a friend named Joe Sheen, and I just, my brain just leaps there instantly every time I say it. Wait, say it again.

Which one? Joshian. Koscian. Koscian. You're saying it good. You're saying it a little different yesterday. I was struggling because I was thinking about Joe Sheen most of the time. Yeah, you were doing the E, like Koscian.

Oh, don't critique my Japanese pronunciation. But yeah, it was a really, really fun interview. We were a little nervous. Just, A, the documentary comes out on ESPN Monday night, 7 p.m., I believe, ESPN. And, yeah, we just weren't sure if the conversation was going to be baseball, if it was going to be culture, if it was going to be both, or where we were going to land on it. We ended up rolling for a clean hour. We had a blast, and it was really good, and we covered everything.

So excited to bring that to you guys. Yep. Not even going to tell them what Summer Koshin is because you're about to find out in this interview with Emma. So enjoy this. I mean, we did talk a lot about the Japanese stars that we know. Right. Otani.

They're heroics as high schoolers. Tanaka gets mentioned once, I think. Only once. We didn't spend too much time on Tanaka. Matsui, Ichero. Nomo. Nomo. It's pretty well.

I came in blind to the documentary, because that's how I live my life. And it's one of the cooler sporting events in the world. I can see clearly now. I've watched the doc. And here's the interview. We are joined by Emma Yamazaki, the creator of Koshin.

Am I saying that right? Japan's Field of Dreams. Me and John Boy, Jimmy, got the early screening of it. A lot of fun and kind of a dream event for a lot of sports fans, especially baseball fans because it's got that like youth motion to it. But I'm still talking. Emma, how are you doing? I'm good.

I'm good. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. So we got, we both watched the, watch the film last night. And I had previously only a couple weeks ago really learned about Summer Koshy and myself. So it was perfect because I gave myself a little entry class because I just saw some old videos. And then, you know, even the.

opening of your film, it's almost chill-inducing chills because the event and the culture surrounding it and the history is amazing. So first question is like, when did you decide to make this film and share this with, you know, everyone. I'm hoping this reaches everyone outside of Japan and this culture gets shared with Americans and anyone else who loves baseball. Yeah, yeah. Well, I grew up actually like 15 minutes away from the Koshian stadium. That's where I lived during middle school and high school. And, you know, every summer, every game is on national TV from 8 a.m. till 6 p.m., you know, so it's just unavoidable and just part of a Japanese person's summer.

So I always knew it and, you know, loved it. I was kind of in that Tanaka generation from the Yankees when he won Koshan twice. Yes. We're Yankees fans, so that's perfect. We're in the Bronx right now. I don't know if we even said that. And then he almost won the third time, you know, and had a rematch in the finals after, I think, 16 and 17 innings and then did another game and lost, but it was just so epic. And then I actually went to New York for college and stayed there as a filmmaker for nine years before starting to create a base back in Japan again in 2017.

I really wanted to make films about Japan. I realized having not done that for a while and not lived here. And so when I came back, it was the huge motorbike. It's 7 a.m. I don't know why. It's like a lot of people out there. Let a rip. So when I came back, started to come back. It was the 99th question.

So there's the 99 years of this. And I watched it for the first time in a decade. And, you know, it was just remembered, you know, that excitement that, you know, captivates the nation every summer. And also having been away from Japan for a long time, I just realized how Japanese like Koshian was in high school baseball, you know, when you see the helmets lined up and, you know, like the kids just being so orderly and like, you know, all for the team type of mentality. I think that's kind of what Japanese society is also known for. And as I was appreciating like the trains being on time in this country, as it's not in New York always. And, you know, people's consideration for others that Japanese society has as general.

oh, maybe like all of these kind of the most extreme parts of Japanese things are packed into high school baseball. And so when I learned the next year, the 100th Koshan has been going on for 100 years, I thought as a filmmaker, it's a great platform, a great like arena to kind of capture these themes. And share with the world is, you know, it's kind of unprecedented, I think, because of the occasion of the 100th tournament, that we were given the permissions to do as much as we did, you know, following these teams intimately with always the goal of getting it out to the outside world. And so, you know, although the versions of the film had aired in Japan until now, this is really the moment where, you know, I'm very, very excited that a lot of people in the U.S.

will get to see it now. Yeah, I think it's great. And the nugget that kind of blew me away and it just opened my mind a little in the beginning of the film when you guys talk about the history of sport in Japan and how before baseball, I guess there really wasn't much sport or team sport. And when baseball got brought over, martial arts was the lifestyle or whatever.

And they took the respect and the thought process of martial arts to baseball. It said in the documentary and like treating the field like a sacred ground and picking up the leaves. And that kind of blew me away because I was like, my God. It all adds up now with the respect and the orderly and kind of the, I don't know if sacred's the word, but that aspect, I mean, if you have any more on that aspect of how it went, you know, kind of no sports and then they took baseball and they made it into their own culture of baseball. I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, no. I mean, in Japanese, there's no word for

sports. Like, it's sports like we took it from English because it didn't exist, you know, in the 18, when Japan opened up its borders to the rest of the world for the first time in two plus centuries. And so, yeah, exactly what you said. When baseball was brought over by, you know, American kind of teachers who were coming into Japan, it was actually called, you know, it was declared a martial art. There's no other way to handle it. And you might know, like, judo or kendo, do means martial art. And so baseball, yaku, in Japanese, and yaku do, like, that's what it was actually called for a while.

So it was literally a martial art. And it was incorporated into youth education. It was just part of, instead of it being, you know, I think in American baseball history, you know, there was these kind of like professional teams that started, you know, back in the day in Japan, baseball started with kids learning how to play as a part of their just education. And that's why there's a lot of like life lessons about it. It's not just about the game. You know, what kind of person you are doing it.

So that's a huge difference, I think. And, you know, I mean, going back and forth between you, US and Japan, I mean, both countries love baseball, but the sport itself could not be more different sometimes. You know, it's almost like two different, two just different versions of the sport. And in Japan, high school baseball is, you know, I would say more popular than professional baseball. I mean, professional baseball didn't start until the 1930s after Bay Booth came over and, you know,

people realize, oh, we can, like, make money off of this. Like, like selling tickets versus, you know, high school baseball started in 1950s. 15 when, you know, and it was, you know, much earlier than that in a much purer form. And so I think the roots of the sport are so different in the two countries. And that's also something that, you know, that going back and forth between the two places is like they have so much in common. But I wanted to, like, I feel like the U.S. would be interested to learn about that and no vice versa here. So that was a goal I had to like share that this time. And it is so funny some of the differences. And I, I kept picturing, you know, how some American teens would react in some of these situations.

And, I mean, it's night and day, and it's the contrast of, you know, how you're brought up and all those things. But I think, kind of zooming out for a second because, you know, Jimmy said he jumped into the world. And I like to come in blind to things. And as I said when I was rambling earlier, this is kind of a dream sporting event for a lot of people that aren't familiar with it. And I'll try to describe it and you will end up correcting me in a minute because I'm sure I'll get it wrong. But there's, and there are 4,000 baseball teams, all of the high school baseball teams in Japan, a single elimination tournament that ends up, I think they play the semifinals and the finals in the Koshian field. And there's so many MLB names that have taken this route and have crazy stories.

I'm sure we're going to talk about Dice K in a little bit. And you already mentioned Tanaka, which pulls at our heartstrings. And we, a little clip of Matsui throwing the first pitch. Even that got me. but and we were trying to decide because there's a lot of different events that in sports we'd have to relate everything. That's just how the brain works. And there's like there's almost this Little League World Series angle where it's all the towns and it's so personal and it's rooted. And then you have this like college football angle and then you're tying in baseball.

And I don't know what sporting events do you link it to and just describe some of the emotion for the people. Because like you said, I mean, you're saying it's bigger than the pro sport. I think they had a million people attend if I'm getting that number right. So kind of paint the picture for the people that aren't familiar with this event a little bit. Yeah, sure, sure. I mean, I think I always like to use the examples of like the Super Bowl and March Madness combined. If you imagine those two things combined, that's what Koshian and high school baseball is for Japan. I would say this.

It's almost like too big to just compare. to one thing because there's nothing really else that compares in terms of how much it becomes part of, you know, the culture during that time and how everybody is like unavoidable. But, you know, actually, there's 4,000 teams and there's 47 prefectures across Japan. So one or sometimes two teams from each of those prefectures in a knockout tournament may get to Koshan, 50 to 55 teams. And then it continues to be knocked out to the finals. And those games at Koshan for those two.

weeks in August, this broadcast, no, all of them are live on, on the public broadcast at NHK from 8 a.m. till 6 p.m. is just on all the time. And if you, at that time, if you go to a restaurant or go to like an office where like a meeting, like all the TV screens are just, you know, you're like invaded by Koshian. So not only Koshan, which is usually a professional team's home grand and the Hanshing Tigers, they evacuate for those. Yeah. That's so crazy. And then not only is it full, you have to line up from early hours in the morning, sometimes even try to get in, but also millions of people are watching it on TV across the world. And it just kind of takes over the country. And it gets very personal or regional because, you know, even if you don't know the actual school from your hometown, this idea of your home prefecture school you root for and people get really into that.

And I think it's just, I think for adults, I really think Koshan is a moment where they remember, their youth, you know, they almost like watch these high school baseball kids and, you know, it gives them motivation to work hard again. You know, there's kind of every summer, it's like a replenishing of the soul for, for Japanese, Japanese people. And, you know, it's almost like at the, sometimes at the sacrifice of those boys, it's like the whole nation is lifted up. It's just kind of, there's nothing, there's nothing like it. And it's, it's going to be a weird summer this year, because of COVID for the first time, we're not going to have it since World War II. Right. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, it's so, it's so, it's so.

insane that the professional team gets kicked out of their own stadium. Yeah. Now, if you're a spectator at Summer Koscian, like you said, the game started at 8 a.m. And they go all day. Is it a single admission ticket? Like, if I line up and I go to the stadium at 8 a.m., do I get to watch eight games? Do I get to sit in one seat? Or is it, like, a single game ticket?

So I think it's up to four games every day. And, you know, they can go on extra innings. So, I mean, and now they've put limits. on that, but, you know, there's like 18 inning games sometimes. I mean, just go on and go on until someone loses. But I believe, I mean, the detending on the seat, you have to rotate, like, you know, so that the new school is cheer squad and people can come. Okay.

But I believe there's also seats that once a year and you can stay for a while. So, yeah, people, I mean, I know people who, like, you know, they have two weeks of, like, paid vacation every summer, every year, they say. Like, they will just go to Coach Yanford and spend all the paid vacation. Like that's how much like some people, you know, dedicate themselves to just like loving, loving to watch it, watch it and be there. It's like 50,000 people watch every game, right? Yeah, it sells out. Yeah, at least.

Yeah, I think that's the capacity. That's wild. That's crazy. Now, in the documentary, I mean, you mostly follow two coaches, two teams and you have kind of a pupil. We're curious because, again, we're like when you say Super Bowl and March Madness, we're wondering a little bit like how well are these coaches known? like what kind of popularity level are they? Or if I said their name in the streets, would some people know them, would some know?

And why these coaches, I guess. I mean, when you watch the main person you follow, he is so intense and I won't give some of it away, but with his son playing baseball and all that, it's wild when you think about it, and that's kind of what you're showing with the culture. But did, I mean, did you build it from them or when you were diving into Koshian, you know, these two popped up and you were like,

that's the story? Or how did that process work for you? Yeah, I mean, there's 4,000 schools, 4,000 coaches. So it's like, how do we undertake this? It was a big challenge for the public. And also, for us, we had to have a team that went to Koshan, actually. I mean, imagine this 50 teams out of 4,000. So how do we do this?

And so our main character, Mizutani, who is the coach of our school called Yoko Yokohama Hayato High School. We landed with him kind of as the main character, because actually, as you'll see in the film, like his life, not only like his daily life, but you know for the past 30 years, but if you think about, you know, his mentors and their mentees,

it really covers a lot of years of what high school baseball has embodied in Japan. So he has been to Koshin once in a very competitive region. You know, he had to always play with Yokohama High School, for example, where Matsuzaka was at. So it was always the underdog, and in his almost 30-year career, he made it to Koshan once,

but was always very competitive in the region. But also he was known to be the mentor for Shohe Otani and Yusay Kikutsi's high school baseball coach, Sasaki, who is our second coach. So when Sasaki was young in his 20s, he kind of learned under Mizutani and then went back to his home prefecture and has since gone to Koscien 10 times. So this is the case where, you know, Mizatani's disciple really, you know, took off kind of went beyond his own teacher. So, and you could really tell the generation, you know, difference too with Mizatani being older. So, you know, the younger Sasaki taking the good, you know, the good things about Mizatani,

but really kind of adapting to the times and coming up with possibly more, you know, different ways to, you know, more effective ways, perhaps, you know, to coach high school baseball. So that contrast we wanted to show. And also like that, you know, it's all building on the previous generation. So, you know, having those two scores, also for us, you know, trying to get to a U.S. audience, we just thought having an end of, like, featuring a school that, you know, major league baseball players went to would be like kind of a hook for people to be interested about, oh, how did, you know, what was Shohi or Tani like in high school and, like,

how did he become who he is kind of a question. So that was also a focus. And when we learned that Mizudani was giving away his own son to be coached by his disciple, who also coached Otani and Yusay, we just thought there's so much drama there, you know? And I mean, imagine all the different emotions and kind of the history of relationships to get to that point. And so that's how we went with it. And actually, we actually filmed two other schools too, again, because we wouldn't know who would make it to Koshan. So we really, like, we couldn't make a film called Koshan and then all the teams they eliminated,

which was a very likely possibility because it's impossible to predict the single elimination baseball. So we had that too. So it was a crazy time going between those schools. But ultimately we, you know, in the edit, realized we could really tell this the story through the two schools and that's where we landed. Yeah. The shot of, I don't want to attempt his name because I'll butcher it,

but the main coach. When he, what is it? Mizutani. Mizutani? Yeah. When he gets to Koshian in 2009 and you show that shot of him in the dugout, just kind of looking around and you can see the pride in his face. Early in the documentary, I was like, oh man, I get that is like, you know, he reached the pinnacle.

So that was really cool. The, I want to, for our audience, just name the names of players that they know who have been. And we've named a bunch Tanaka. Matsui hit a home run at Koshian. Dice K through like 250 pitches one day and then pitch the next day. You say Kukuchi pitch with a broken rib. Otani pitched and lost and you have his postgame interview from there, which is just so full of emotion.

Is there always one player that takes it by storm? And is that how all of these players that I just named were? Were they like heroes of their time? Or were they late bloomers or, you know, have you guys known these names since they were like 16? Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely like every summer, there's just a couple of heroes are born. You know, I mean, for, you know, whether, you know, and out of those people you mentioned, for example, Tanaka and Matsuzaka were really those, like, in the moment at like 17, 18 years old, a household name. And we still love them for that.

No matter what happens in their career later, it's just like every Japanese person has, like, a soft spot for them. them for that 18-year-old that gave us so much inspiration that summer, you know. And then there's like other professional leagues. Like Otani was always, you know, a very like, everybody knew he was amazing. But because he actually didn't like perform that well, his team at Koshan, he didn't even make it to Koshan, his senior year, which was a big surprise. You know, he was, he was kind of like, people knew him, but, you know, kind of decided to go to the majors out of high school.

and then end up joining Japanese baseball anyway, but that was really kind of when things took off for him, I would say. But then, yeah, so there's different versions of heroes. Actually, Matsui, people know him not for his home run, but the fact that he was walked, intentionally walked five times at Koshian, which ultimately worked and his team lost. And that was at the time crazy, really controversial in this pure form of the sport. Right.

You know, it was a riot, basically. So that's kind of what he's known for. Game two. Two games? Okay. Yeah. And so we still hit a home run and then walked him five times. That's crazy. He had done so well in his previous years, too, that by the time it was his senior year, I mean, that was what the other team decided to do.

You know, it paid off for the victory. But in terms of the spirit of the sport, it was just highly, highly controversial. So, yeah. And, you know, in our year, in the 100th tournament, there was. this guy, Kose Yoshida, from a very northern prefecture in Akita, they had never really done very well in Kostian, who, you know, through every pitch for his team from the regional through to the finals of Koshan, I think,

1,500 pitches over the course of a month, and he became, you know, really the hero, although he didn't win in the final, but he was, like, kind of the hero of that year. So there's always, like, a couple of people. And then there's also other professional, like, you know, each year, for example, in high school, He was a pitcher, actually, so he, like, threw at Koshian, but he's one of the kind of more rarer examples of, you know, he's most known for, like, not crying when he didn't make

Kitskoshen his senior. He was still focused on being a pro, and he knew, like, this wasn't it for him, which is kind of an exception, I think, even those guys who go to the pros and know that they'll have a career, just high school baseball is usually, like, a very emotional thing. But, you know, looking back, I feel like people knew, like, he was a different one. from that time. So each person has kind of a darvish, you know, through a lot in high school baseball and there's like just a lot of

emotional shots of those players from that time, which I, you know, is I think, you know, the U.S. audience would also be kind of interested to see. And now, I mean, Otani's the guy. And I think I mean, it's

wild to think about. I mean, we talk baseball all day. That's what we do. And I mean, Otani, because of injury and, well, what baseball is going through right now. But he's so incredible. I mean, the man hits. He pitches. He's throwing 100.

He's hitting home runs. No one, literally no one has done this in baseball since Babe Ruth. And do you get, and, you know, I know there's the cut scene. There's two little kids wearing Otani jersey's watching. And do you feel there's, like, more pressure on him? and, you know, this kind of ties into some of the Japan societal stuff, and I'm probably the least qualified person in the world to be talking about Japan societal stuff. But do you think there's, like, extra pressure on him?

Because, you know, Otani, he's already got this kind of cool niche. He can pitch. He can hit. And, you know, I'm sure he's going to carve out a nice career, but he can also go down as, you know, people say he's the most talented guy in the league right now, so he can do both. So kind of what are the vibes over there? And I mean, if he becomes what he can become, I mean, what would that mean for Japan?

Yeah, I mean, we're so excited about him. I know, of course. I mean, like you said, because of his injury, and, you know, except for that kind of first few months of his first season, it's kind of either pitch or hit or things like this. But I think we're ready for him to, you know, show us what he can do in both, both during. and hitting. You know, I mean, in the 2018, like, beginning of when he went to the majors, it was right when we were making this film and, you know, you see a scene of, like, you know, the other coach, you know, watching on TV and his son asking, is he going to win

rookie of the year? Yes. And, you know, he does. And so, you know, that was a thrilling time to kind of, like, you know, have that big, big debut over there. And I think, you know, I mean, I have a sense that, of course, like, there must be precious for him, but he, he just has this kind of, you know, also his coach telling us, like, he just kind of has this personality can really, you know, it doesn't question him, you know, he can adapt. He's just like so, um, has this, like, right mentality about like being focused and knowing what to do. And I think also, you know, he's been under pressure since he was 16 in high school, you know, I mean, he was, you know, he was, you know, he was, you know, he threw one, actually he's probably

most known in his high school year for throwing 100 miles per hour as a high school kid, which is the record at the time. And, you know, he was just, he was a media friend, like everything that he's experienced, like, immediately, you know, like 100 reporters descending on his high school, you know, trying to, like, get a word out of him, things like this. So he's handled these things for a long time and kind of like the hopes of a nation

or hopes of his vision, as you saw, like, you know, he's being doing this for 10 years already, even though he's only in his mid-20. So we're very, we can't wait to, you know, see what he can do. I mean, you know, I am, and also I think, you know, when you learn about, you know, what kind of high school coach he had and kind of like the years of, you know, like what it was like for him in high school,

he's definitely been groomed to, you know, of course he's an amazingly talented baseball player, but his kind of life, kind of his approach to life and having goals. And, you know, he declared all these things in high school that he was going to, like, go to the majors, is going to be the best player he could. Like, he's always had a vision and he's just working towards it. that was just part of the coach's kind of framework of how he deals with all his students of like creating well how do you see yourself at 25 at 30 at 40 these are things that the coach you know does with everyone and they work towards it so I think I honestly think it's not a not a like

by chance that this small high school in a small town in the you know where it snows in the in the winter you know has produced two major leaguers you know I mean over there right now so I think that's like having to do with that environment and and what the high school baseball coach did. But yeah, we're like, we can't wait. I mean, I think we're ready for some showtime. You talk about the districts or the prefectures that, you know, you have to win that to get into Summer Koscian.

But the one that where we watched in the documentary, I believe the number was 292 high schools. So to go to Koshan, you mean? No, like in that prefecture. Oh, in. Kind of go out with the main. There was, I think, 194 that year. 194.

Yeah. So how strict are the rules if about sending players to different high schools? Are they, like, do you have to live within the region? Does it happen that towns try to make super teams and recruit like Otani to come pitch for them? Or are there strict rules that, no, he lives here. He has to play for this high school? Right. No, great question.

So, no, there is some of that. you know, especially the private schools that, you know, can provide a dorm and, like, strong baseball schools, you know, do, like, recruit from around the country and then they basically move to that town for high school. I mean, Tanaka moved to the very north of Japan, you know, he's not from there, but he went there for high school and they pitched for this school in Hokkaido where, you know, way up in the north. So things like that happen. I mean, Otani school is, and then also these schools, both the schools, both the schools, picked for our film kind of have this philosophy that they shouldn't do that you know there should really

be from local kids they you know um like from their prefecture from the region that can make it to the school or like even though otani school does have a dorm they they only we could they only take from that prefecture it's like their goal their vision to win koshan with the players who live there and the one exception really they've had in years is the fact that you know the coach decided to take on his his mentor's son from a different preacher but that's like he's the exception really. And so that happens. So, you know, a lot of teams like actually, for example, Iwate,

where the prefecture where Otani's high school is, there's a, all the other teams are up in arms because that school gets all the best talent from the prefecture. So there's another school that does recruit, you know, actually a lot of players from, you know, more kind of urban areas of the country and they live there for three years and tried to compete with, you know, Otani's school.

So that's kind of like, they have to do that otherwise. Like they never get the best players because that one school is so good. And everybody, you know, wants to go there from their local middle school teams. So there's a lot of that. And I think there's often, you know, of like with any sport, like disparities between like the public schools,

what they can do and what the private schools can offer. So there's some of that. But, yeah, kids will move across the country to, you know, live somewhere to play for whatever school they want to play if they want to do that. And it adds up because there's so much. many schools. And like, you know, 190 and only one goes is insane. I have a question that's not on our list. And a reminder, we're not biased Yankee fans. Is Tanaka the coolest ever? He's a, he dominated Koshan. He's married to a pop star. The flowing hair, I mean, his playoff ERA is incredible.

Give us more on Tanaka because he's, he's the best. Yeah. And, you know, I'm that Tanaka generation. where I was in high school when he was in high school. And again, he won, he almost won Koshan three years in a row. I mean, that's like, winning once is like almost impossible. And then he did it his freshman year, his sophomore year. And then in the senior year, he threw out this epic, you know, tied game in the final. And then came back for a rematch to, to lose. But, you know, he'd really captured our hearts by then.

And since then, you know, when you see, like in Japan, he had a 25-0 season. and then, you know, how he does in the playoffs, especially, and once he's gone to the Yankees, I think really is, he's this guy that is good under pressure. I mean, he's experienced that in Koshian, as a, you know, 16, 17, 18-year-old, and it's just part of what, you know, he thrives on. It must be because, you know,

and his intensity and focus, I think, comes out of possibly this environment he was in high school, you know, like that he was already prepared for these high pressure situations. And, you know, we love how. how, you know, emotional he gets. I mean, you know, us in Japan, because we've seen him grow up, you know, we've seen every stage of his success. We just, like, really can't get enough of him over here either.

This is a picture of him that I always look at. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's him just celebrating. Uh-huh. It's my favorite. Yeah. It's like so, have you seen this? It's so much emotion. Yeah.

It looks like a god on a baseball field. It's so cool. He is. Yeah. If you were to take Tanaka, Ichero, Matsui, Otani, and put them in a fan event in Japan, what guy would have the longest line to get signatures and pictures? No question.

God, I think right now, I mean, all four of them would get, I mean, those are probably like the top four, you know, very, very popular people. It's hard for me to say I, you know, since I was a child, I have been Anichuo fan, you know, like, and, you know, he's been like, I often say like, I am who I am thanks to him existing type of kind of influence I've had personally, so I'm biased.

But I think also now, you know, the players who are playing now, Otani, you know, Tanaka, obviously, like, still in, you know, like those guys have retired now, especially Matsui. It's been a while. So I don't know if right now, if, you know, how they would actually compare, but they're all like legends. And I do also feel like thanks to Ichuo Matsui, going over there, like they paved the path along with others, like on the picture side, No Mo and the people who came before that they really like paved the path for the

next ones to go. So I think like, you know, they each have tremendous respect for each other. I know, like Otani has a kind of a relationship with Ichiro where they, he really gets advice and things like that. So I can't, I can't say definitively like, like which one would be the, have the longest line. We always joke that Tanaka probably looks at Aaron Judge and says, you think you're popular? Come to Japan with me. I'm a rock star.

Because whenever he's there in the winter, the Instagrams and the videos that come out, it's like he's just walking around like a god. It's awesome. Yeah. And now... I'm sure it's... Yeah.

I'm all of them would have problem walking anywhere. Yeah. And now staying on Tanaka. No, I'm kidding. Do you want to do one more biased janky fan question? No, we'll get there. I'll loop it in casually at the end. I'm actually going to dive back into Japanese culture again because this is, there has to be people laughing at that.

But it's, I mean, that's kind of what this documentary is. I mean, it's Japanese culture mixed in with baseball. And, you know, there are a lot of legends. I mean, the dice K-250 pitches, 8-81 in two weeks, I think, was the number. Yes, I took my notes. And, you know, Kukuchi, there's a great scene where, a great scene, but an emotional scene where he talks about, you know, he pitched with a broken rib and he got pulled from the game

and he talks about how honorable it was to get pulled because, like, that just doesn't happen because kind of the best players throw their stuff. So he was so hurt that the manager did that. And then I think it's interesting because we get a quote at the end where the manager is talking about how he feels he pushed his guys too far. And, you know, we talk about Japanese culture a little bit with the shaved heads and different things like that. And are we seeing, like...

Is there any pushback by how much the amount of pitch is thrown? Is there detriment to some of these guys that now that's kind of why the culture's turning? And by the way, all the life comparisons like just hit me in the chest. Like when when coach says, you know, maybe I threw too many balls and I didn't catch enough. Like I was like, oh my God, am I not catching enough? Am I throwing too much? So, yeah, this is, and that's how I phrase questions. I don't really phrase them.

I just say as much information as I can and then I let you talk. So please. Is there like a changing of the mindset with how many pitches these pitchers are throwing? Because in America, it would be outraged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. And I think, honestly, until maybe this film and people getting a chance to see it, I feel like if American people knew something about high school basal,

it would be the fact that, like, the pitch is overthrown. I feel like that one fact is kind of took off, and that's, you know, if there's one thing, that's what it's known for. And so hopefully this will be a more holistic view of kind of like what goes into it and like the culture behind it. Not to say that the overthrowing is not a problem, but I think, yes, definitely, especially in the past really few years, there's been, I think, various societal,

little pressures to, you know, re-examine some of these kind of, you know, you can say they call them traditions or just the way things have been. There's, you know, even with the pitch count, I mean, this is very new, I think, as of last year, this year, they've started to try implementing, like, some sort of restrictions. There's still, like, up to 500 pitches in a certain amount of time. It's not like how the U.S. does it. It's still, like, a lot of pitches. But there's also a lot of pushback on that. Not everybody agrees that's what should be done. It's not unanimous. So there's always that kind of a discussion about, you know, the balance between obviously, like, you know, making sure, like, kids are okay, their health, their well-being, their

arms. But also, I mean, for so many of kids who play baseball in high school, that's it. There's no future, you know, it's one thing if they have a, really save their arm if they, like, you know, intend to be a professional and throwing the majors. But for a lot of so many kids, that's not the plan and that's really it for them. They want to give it their all. That's all they want to do. so there's like always that you know that the different you know uh situations of the kids and i think it's increasingly important to like kind of figure out the balance of like what the individual what's best for the individual i mean you know sasaki didn't get or didn't overthrow otani or like really understood that the best of his career was going to happen way after his jurisdiction

like in professional in his 20s and 30s so he he was very careful but then of course like the team's victory and like you know like the that's all that's all also that balance. I think in a way how how sometimes high school baseball kids and their arms are treated is like, you know, at the sacrifice of that, like the whole nation, like what they're giving is kind of this inspiration to a nation. I know that doesn't sound necessarily rational, but I think that's ultimately that's how we view them. And so that's like, and, you know, a lot of the kids for better for worse understand that role and like that's what they want to be too. It's not necessarily a long-term plan to always throw or things like that. But it's definitely changing.

I mean, even this culture of shaved heads that is like, you know, until very recently, you must have, you must have a shaved head to play high school of baseball. It's always been that way. And I thought it always will. But that's changing, you know, like different schools. I'm saying why. And also, you know, with kind of, we need to get kids continue to be involved, like baseball, you know, I mean, the soccer, this basketball, there's other sports, just like every country, you know, the U.S. too, I'm sure, is being pulled in the popularity of different sports. So I think there's been efforts to kind of make it more accessible for some kids. Like, definitely there's changes, you know, around the 100th tournament in the years since.

Yeah. The other thing that was cool about the culture of it and kind of sacrificing yourself for the nation and all that is there's a line, and I read this as well as like a lot of people come to watch the winner, but they also come to watch the losers cry and scoop up the dirt as the memory, which, you know, and you can hear that and be like, wait, what? But I think it's, you know, because it's a reminder of the youth and, like, seeing that emotion is so cool. But can you dive into that? Like, I've heard that said twice. It was in, it was in your film. And I read it that, you know, as much as they want to see the team win, they also want to see the tears of the team losing. it sounds kind of harsh to me, but I don't know, can you explain that thought process?

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, I mean, when you have a knockout tournament, like, oh, there's only going to be one winner. Even if you're a runner up, like you lose, right? It's like based on losing, like the whole structure of high school baseball is done so that like everybody except one team out of 4,000 loses at some point. And I think it's, you know, I feel like just maybe the Japanese, like we just love the underdog. love the, you know, there's like the beauty of losing these types of things. Of course, people win, but I feel like, I think more, like in the U.S., of course, my general impression is

like, you know, of course, like winners, like, we love the winners. But really, there's just an affection for these teams and kids that give it their all, but didn't, you know, left everything on the field and couldn't win this time. But then they, you know, they, they scrape up the dirt or quotient in a bag to take home to, like, share with their family and also, like, to give encouragement to the next generation that will try to win Koshian that they couldn't so there's like a lot of beauty in that type of losing and um yeah i feel like the whole structure is based upon like everybody almost everybody losing yeah because we love it you know i mean like the emotions that that come with it like we're crying they're crying i think it's just like i feel like maybe the impression about

japan like from the outside is like i don't know if you've seen like that many people that emotional. Japanese people like, you know, adults crying, kids crying. It's like, especially in high school

baseball, I mean, high school baseball coaches, I think like the number one emotional profession where they're like constantly crying on national TV.

And I just also wanted to share the aspect of the culture. So we're not just like these like business men kind of like more robotic reserves. People like we come out like that sometimes. And I think that's really shown in, especially in high school of baseball. Yeah, I love it.

Isn't there something with the dirt as well? Is it, is it, because it's really dark. I thought it was a mixture. I thought I read it's a special. No? I don't know.

Maybe I read it. I'm not sure. I mean, yeah, it's definitely the quotient dirt is the symbol. You know, I mean, it's like this idea of scooping up,

scooping it up and putting in a bag. As you're crying because you lost and you'll never come back and this type of thing is, and it's all like, you know, photograph, you know, live broadcasted.

Like after the game, I feel like it's almost more shots of the losing team, packing up than the winning team. And that's kind of where the emphasis is. So, yeah, it's a very important, like, symbolic aspect of high school baseball in the dirt. I have a couple weird questions. Okay. Okay.

First. So there's kind of this American stereotype. And maybe it's, like, Texas high school football that, like, you know, say the town wins state. And, you know, obviously not everyone goes on to play football and, you know, be a professional and things like that. Do people like kind of flex, like the bag of dirt or things like that? Or do people have like a restaurant? And, you know, when you walk in, there's like the Koshen bag. And they like, they kind of flex that that was part of their life.

Like wearing your state championship. Yes, like a car dealership. Like, by the way, if you want your kid to go to Kosci and get a car from here. Like, is there any of that? I mean, there's definitely like, yeah, like if you're your local team or like, someone goes to question, there's like the banners that come out, you know, like this is like kind of like stickers and posters everywhere. I mean, when, you know, like the whole town will like, you know, even the local grocery stores will like to stick that that on. I think as the guys coming

back, I mean, I think they try to be maybe more humble than generally how Americans. I think that's just how that's the whole world. Yeah. But, but I think, yeah, I mean, everybody will like, you know, They don't like brag around with the dirt. But I think sometimes like what happens is like your biggest accomplishment in life become that you went to Koshian. And that gets harder and harder. I think like whether it's after you leave baseball and you're in a professional and like everybody, you know, remembers that time when at 18 you were, you were this thing.

And I think sometimes that actually, you know, is a burden for people too because you can never get beyond like this experience you had at 18 or that the accomplishments that you're known for. So that's also kind of like a double-edged. or sometimes, but definitely, I mean, you know, like, you know, even now, like, having made this film, like, everybody who, who, like, I tell people I made this film, if they played high school baseball, I mean, even if they didn't go to Kostean, they just, like, immediately tell me it's, like, such a part of who they are that, I mean, I think not just having gone to Kloscham,

but the idea that you do this for three years, do nothing else, you know, play all day, all year, you know, is kind of ingrained in who you are, and even after you leave, you know, actually playing baseball. one of the opening quotes by Kakucci or Otani was like even hearing the words Koscian like means a lot to me. He said like it like you know just like goes through his host

that's crazy. I have two questions Jake. Oh wow. Okay. Fine. Yeah. I have a normal question that I'm going to attach a Yankees bias question on top of it. When players leave Japan to go to the MLB to go to America is the Japanese

fan base how much percentage is it very happy for them and celebratory because they're going to MLB versus kind of disappointed that they're not, you know, playing in their home country and their time zone and their teams. Like is there, is there any resentment? Like, I wish we could keep these guys here or are they just happy that they move to the MLB? I think there's always a little resentment. I think it's also changed that ratio has changed over the years.

I mean, when no more went, like the whole country was very. very, very upset until he did well and then we loved him. But like, that was in the, you know, mid-1990s. And then now I think at this point, I'm, you know, there might be the kind of the older generation, the more conservative generation that really doesn't like that, you know, like that, you know, they just go there and they wanted to be, they wanted to stay in Japan.

But otherwise, I think general fans can't wait to see Oatani play in the majors or see Tanaka play in the majors. I mean, at that point, like, we just want them to go over there as, like, young as possible almost because you know what's happened also is that due to different systems like um you know a lot of these great players have had to go up like right after their peak or things like at this point it's like if you're going to go like please go you know soon so that you can really you know do well over there i think that's mentality is shifted but i think there's always you know that pool of like oh stay here and we're not being able to to see them but i think like i mean

compared to what no more went through i mean now you know there's always even like you know, Matsui, like, when he decided to go because, you know, he was very, like, almost like, I think he, like, apologized to, you know, at the press conference for making that decision to his Japanese fans and things like that, but there's a lot of, like, it's not like, there's, like, considerations and, like, sensitivity that they always have when they leave. But I think at this point, we want to see how they do. And then later on in their years, they can come back and, I know we embrace them as they, like, try to end their careers sometimes over here as well.

Yeah. And it's part two of the. question is. Yankee Homer question. Yeah, when Otani is announced that he's going to the angels, is there like a collective grunt in Japan? Like, ugh, we wanted the Yankees. I mean, I remember there was like an epic complaints from the U.S., like New Yorkers.

I remember like these headlines. From us. You're talking to them. We wanted them. But, yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, I don't know. I mean, definitely that the angels were not like very well. all known as a team, I would say, over here, before Eltoni went, you know, like, it's not like the Yankees or the Mariners where, like, you know, so many players had gone. So I'm not, I feel like

the grunts really came from the U.S. side. I think for here, we were, we were not as critical. Like, it's almost like very, we have great respect for the fact that, you know, I mean, as you know, like, he's, he's, he's, he's, he didn't go for the money. He didn't go for, like, the most popular sport. He really, it looks like he picked what he thought would be the best team for him at that moment as that young player he went as, you know, instead of like being kind of like blinded, you know, in a way maybe blinded by like the best teams offering him like much more money or, you know, things like that. So I think actually here there's like tremendous respect for that and maybe also a feeling that, you know, how it's turning out. Like we, I think a lot of people want him

to continue to both throw and pitch and maybe like, you know, in different other teams like the Yankees, like if he didn't do well just even for a short time, there'd be like pressure to like, you know, not, you know, make him quit one of the other things like that. So maybe I feel like at the time we felt like, oh, like if that's how he feels and there's like the team over there wants him to do both. Like we want that as well. So I feel like the disgruntles came from New York. I remember that outrage of being in the New York side.

That's fair. Well, he'd still be welcome. And the final question, how cool is Tanaka? No. I was a little mini spoiler. So if go and watch, it comes out. Monday night? Monday night, 7 p.m.

Monday night, 7 p.m. Go check it out. Little spoiler, so go and watch and maybe don't listen to this part or you don't know what it means, but did you know or did you think that? You said that? Okay, we'll cut it out.

We will literally, we'll cut it. Yeah, I mean, it's so, you know, in the main team we follow, there's 120 kids, right? And A team, there's 20 kids that make it. And, of course, the 120 are comprised of, you know, freshman and sophomores and seniors the three years.

So there's generally more seniors, but even seniors, there's like 49 seniors that year we filmed. So, you know, imagine most kids don't ever play an official game. You know,

you dedicate yourself to being on the team, morning practice, afternoon practice, but you never make the team. And of course, the final chance for that is the summer

Koshian, like regional tournament where it's like the A team is picked and then that team goes to, you know, continues on to, you know,

end the season and then once that team loses, that's it for everybody. And so it's like so emotional and, you know, we, we followed so many kids, of course, in the film we feature it too, but we were filming with so many of the kids again because we didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know, you know, we didn't necessarily want to follow a kid that like barely made it or barely didn't make it. We just like kind of went with the best stories, you know, but all of that was so emotional and clearly, clearly very, very hard for the coaches like year after year to have to kind of break the hearts of so many kids who, who know, you know, have to give up actually being the player and dedicating themselves to,

like, tossing the ball for practice or, you know, cleaning up the field, like, these kind of roles. So, I mean, we were, like, it was a very emotional journey for us. I actually didn't, I knew the day of the, I didn't know until that day. Like, so, you know, I had a few hours heads up so we could plan the filming, but otherwise, like, I knew, like, I knew. I didn't know what was going to happen either. Okay. Well, I'm sorry for the spoiler, but I had to know because I was on edge. It was on edge.

Yeah, I know. We'll cut it out. We'll figure that out after. And now, I mean, my last thing is I'd like to come back to you. I'd say, A, kind of what's next? I know you mentioned Nomo a few times, and he clearly had a big role over there. And you have an Ichero series that I believe was on Yahoo. I might have misread that.

And this is more so a me thing. Are you still dancing? I went to your website and it said you had a passion for dance. I, this is genuine. I have a passion for dance. I was in a ballet in college. Not a flex. It's just whatever. So are you still dancing and what's next for you? Oh, wow. Yeah. No, I don't dance anymore. I really feel like my passion for dance and the story that I was into as a dancer has really just been transferred over to making films, like telling stories through films. That's kind of been the way probably for around 10 years now. So although I recently, you know, for Japanese TV, I made a dance documentary about the Alvinalei American Dance Theater.

So dance and dance subjects are often, you know, interested to me, but I don't dance personally. Dance subjects, yes, I see. You looking at me. That's fine. Yeah, last year, kind of around the time of each year of's retirement, again, for a Japanese outlet, I kind of did this series of, like, kind of, you know, Just like I have been severely shaped as a person thanks to like growing up at this era where

each year was in the majors. And I kind of went around the country both in Japan and also some parts of the U.S. to also capture other people, other like fans or really, it's like goes beyond just being a crazy fan, like really had a defining impact on their lives. I made a series about that, which is actually, but it's all in Japanese, but you know, it's, it was done. And then yeah, I mean, right now, I mean, of course, my. my original plans for the future have kind of been uprooted because of the current pandemic.

I usually frequently go back and forth between New York and Tokyo to kind of work on various projects, but I'm in Japan for a while, I mean, which is fine. And so I have a few projects. I'm still, I think, interested in, you know, similar to this high school baseball film. I have really interested in, like, education and how, like, young people are being shaped for the future. I have this kind of idea like take a look at the 10-year-olds in any country or any place and you can kind of imagine maybe what the future of that country will be like.

So I have this kind of public school project that, you know, I wanted to film at a Japanese public school for a long time and kind of observe how, you know, like they're kind of shaped as a Japanese kind of. So similar themes maybe almost to the baseball film, but with no baseball. So, of course, like I love baseball and I have various interest in that arena. too, but I think also related to like sharing with the world different ways, like what Japan is about and kind of more complicated and nuanced ways. So it's not just about like sushi or anime, you know, I think there's enough of that. So just kind of like different ways to kind of share with the outside world. I think that's maybe what I can offer more than others just because

of I'm insider and an outsider here. And it's kind of like the way I can kind of contribute, I think, in the storytelling space. So that's kind of what I want to, what I'm up to. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. It's exactly what you did here. Everyone sees the major league players that come from Japan and we love them and cheer for them. And I had no idea that the upbringing and the baseball culture that they were, you know, developed through existed so much different than the U.S. So I think it's eye opening. Everyone that enjoys baseball should watch it and see that like your favorite sport can exist in such a different way. I think it's really fascinating and cool. So thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate that. And thank you for making the film. Monday at 7?

Monday, 7 p.m. East Coast, yep. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you. And there you have it.

Tanaka's the best and we didn't talk about them enough. Yes. IMO. Confirmed. Almost a three-time winner of Koshin. If we ever like meet Tanaka. Oh, my God. First question.

That's my. I've said many times on all the different podcasts. I find my one connecting dot with a person, and I try to hammer that home. Normally it's like your college mascot or something like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when we run into the Japanese ballplayers, Koshin's the first thing out of my mouth.

You just did it like Joe Sheehan that time. Yep. Yes. So go watch the documentary. It's awesome. There's a lot of subtitles, which took Jake and I. Yes. Okay.

No, I think that's fair. If you're watching, just be ready for that. Be ready. We weren't ready. We thought like we were going to be able to multitask and like, okay, I'm going to do a little work, maybe eat dinner, text a little bit and watch it. Like, no, you have to sit down and watch the documentary because it's subtitles. But it's worth it. Yeah.

It's worth it. And I think my Japanese got better after doing it. No, BBD? No. We watched it while, like, baseball was announced their back officially. So that made watching it kind of hard. Oh, yeah, there was some distractions. That day was a tough time.

It was a big day. It was a big day. But anyway, that's good. Go watch it. Like I said, in the interview that you just listened to, no idea about the culture of Japanese baseball, and it's so different. Didn't preface the bleeps or anything at all, so I'll just let the people deal with that. Yeah. Jake did a spoiler. I tried to spoil it for you.

Yeah. All right. See you guys. Have a great weekend. Go the ball. Baseball's coming back, and we are excited. So three weekends left without baseball? Four?

Four? Four. Four weekends without baseball? Four or five. Cool. Check sucks.