Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 164 | Umpire Dale Scott Returns!

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Umpire Dale Scott returns to tell more stories about his many years in the game, while also sharing the story of coming out as the first active, openly gay umpire in MLB. The Oregon-native breaks down his strike-three call, umpire uniforms, and much more with his second go-around on Talkin' Baseball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome back to Talking Baseball. We have everyone's favorite umpire back on the show, Dale Scott. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Talking Baseball. My name's Jimmy. I got Jake right next to me. We got Trev back from his Father's Day excursion. And we have an interview with Empire, Dale Scott, reoccurring guest.

Not the second ever, Treb. You asked that at the beginning. And Jake was like, Plarity's been on three times. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Okay. Whatever.

Don't worry about me. But June is Pride Month. Dale Scott is the first openly gay umpire in major league baseball. So it felt like a no-brainer to hear his story. We wanted to ask all these questions and everything last time. But as you will tell by this interview, we can get lost in the weeds pretty quickly and just start asking umpire questions. So, I mean, you guys got anything before we roll it besides he's awesome? He's great.

I mean, we couldn't yuck it up with Dale literally all. day about anything. I mean, we, you know, we hit Pac-12 football right at the end, and I think we could have done an hour on that pretty easily with Dale. So he's great. And yeah, I mean, there's so many more questions I want inquire about. Like, you know, does he, you know, does he want MLB to put him on a platform more? Like, I don't know. Like, we all had eight more questions we could have asked, and Dale will be back, and I know you guys enjoyed him last time. Enjoy him now. Trevor Plouffe. Yeah, I mean, he's great. He's easy to talk to. He's like an interviewer's dream comes on. You ask me a few questions. It's easy with him, so I can tell that, yes,

he will be back on. I'm really upset at Double Down on the recurring guest thing. My bad. It's all right. Here he is. Dale Scott. We are rejoined by essentially our fourth co-host, Dale Scott. Dale, how you doing, man? I'm doing great, guys. Thanks for inviting you back. Yes, Dale, we had so many stories last time you came on. Our audience loved it. We have a ton more stories. Want to do a little Pride Month talk and that other side of your story that we haven't,

we didn't get to touch on last time because I feel like you have a million stories. I was researching for another show yesterday and your name just casually came up in the article because you were the umpire behind the plate for a no hitter loss. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That was at the old Comiskey Park. Last year at Comiskey, Andy Hawkins for the Yankees, which is rare that no-hitter win. Yeah, it was, I believe it was like a drop ball in the outfield and three runs scored. Right.

In the bottom of the eighth. The White Sox scored, I believe, 300 runs in the bottom of the eighth. Hawkins, or the Yankees came up with the ninth, didn't score, game over. So Hawkins threw an eight-inning no-hitter. and that winter they just, whoever they are, decided that to throw a no-hitted, to qualify for a no-hitter, you have to pitch nine innings or more. And he only pitched eight. That's pretty bizarre.

Sounds like baseball at work, yeah. Yeah, this guy sullying the record. Yeah, what a jerk throwing a no-hitter and losing. Well, in this. It might have been Manfred. He might have been back then. Oh, boy. Did he have something to do with it?

Well, it was. 1990, I believe, or 91. 20-year-old Manfred. Yeah, easy on Uncle Bobby. Yeah, go easy on Bobby Manfred early. Baseball's back. We're happy. We're happy. And the other thing that was going around today, Dale, was, well, and this was Jason Stark, I think, his article, but he said there could be a perfect, in theory, there could

be a perfect game this year and a losing pitcher with the runner starting on second rule. Have you, well, A, that was just kind of going around Twitter a little bit, but I don't know, do you hear something like that and get excited from like an umpire historical look that we might see some crazy stuff this year? Or do you maybe have the baseball truess come out that you're like, get that runner off second base? Well, you know, be honest, you know, we don't get paid by the hour. So anytime we can shorten the game is probably a good thing. You know, I think this year for everybody involved is just, it's just, it's just. just a bizarre year, obviously. Yeah.

You know, the short season, the special rules, you know, the, you know, the, I mean, everything is just bizarre. So I, you know, I haven't talked to the last few days, well, since they came into agreement with a couple of the guys that I keep in contact with. But I know they're, you know, they're itching to work and get back on the field. But I haven't really gauged how, and I haven't really talked to about some of these special rules, which I'd like to, just try to get an update on what's going on. But I just think it's really tough to judge this. We'll see how it all plays out, but how to judge this season with anything

else. I mean, it's just going to have a lot of, you know, that was the COVID year, you know. Yeah, it will. It'll have its own flavor to it until it goes far enough away from it where people will forget. And then there'll be a small few that remind him, no, that year was, that year was funny. Yeah, yeah. We joked before we hit record about there's no arguing allowed. So do you think umpires are rejoicing all around? I've been lobbying for that since my first game in 1975 when I was 15 years old. You know, a funny thing about arguing, quite frankly, is there's a lot less of it now anyway

because of replay and stuff. And that's really changed how, you know, relationships on the field, you know, with, confrontations and that kind of stuff. It's going to be, it's going to be interesting to see when a guy just doesn't like a striped three colon or something that doesn't, you know, you just snap a little bit and, you know, get the guy's face or something. I think baseball is really serious about, you know, obviously they don't, you know, eject him or whatever, but I think a fine, maybe not a suspension, but I, unless he really goes goofy, but I definitely think the fines might be up a little bit,

because I really know that, you know, they got to, their baseball, like we know, is on thin ice right now anyway with this disease because we have no idea what this virus is going to do and we have no idea how it's going to wreak havoc hopefully not on this upcoming short season but i i certainly know that getting in an umpire's face or that type of thing that that really could be a something that that spreads this thing is really going to be discouraged so i i'm i'm assuming the fines will be pretty hefty i'm just i'm just picturing in my head right now you know dale scott behind the plate i'm hitting you ring me up on a on a tough third strike. I might just lay my bat down market, lay it down again to get the six feet and then we could

just argue all we want. Do you think that's what's going to happen? Like arguments that cross the diamond? Well, you know, people are still going to be upset about calls. Sure. There's the human element there. You know, and that's, I mean, that's a really good point. I mean, let's say you call a guy out at second or you do something and a guy might get up.

And he might be enough, aware enough to not get closed, but just, you know, start it up, you know. But it's going to be interesting. I don't know. And there's going to be no fans. So you're going to hear everything that the guys are saying. And the guys like Jimmy here are going to take all those clips and just, oh, man, you're going to have a field day, John. This could be your make-a-wish day, Jimmy. Yeah.

It's going to be awesome. You need a lot more savages in the box, rants. As in the jackpot. Yes. I was going to ask about assing the jackpot. Who was the umpire with Noah Sindegarde and... That was Tom Hallion. Is that a...

Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? Is that a phrase? In the jackpot?

Yeah. I'll be honest with you. That's the first time I've heard it. Okay. Us too. I think that's a brand new face. Yeah. But very effective.

I like it. If I was still working, I'd probably, you know, integrate it a little bit. Steal that one. When you see like that rant and like Aaron Boone with the, you know, our guys are savages, I had a lot of people, anyone who ever had an opinion on that video, I saw it because they responded to the video that I posted.

And it was actually a lot of umpires that were like, that was a good one. He was kind of a little respectful while also being an asshole. Do you have, do you remember that enough to have like an opinion or your thoughts when you first saw it? I haven't seen the clip in quite a while, but, you know, that's kind of, that's kind of what we got to do. You got to be firm in what we're doing, but you still are, you know, you're still trying to be professional and, and respectful of the situation. It's a lot easier said than done sometimes because, you know, Trevor knows the emotions boil up.

The guys get angry and sometimes, you know, sometimes they are absolutely 100% angry at, you know, at me, the umpire. Other times they've been, you know, they're one for 20. and they're, you know, and they're just, they're just frustrated as heck. And I happen to be the outlet, which is a lot cheaper than a psychiatrist, I guess. I don't know. Oh, that's good. I love that you, I love that you recognize that because, and I feel like most guys do recognize that, because that is a feeling that I felt.

You're just frustrated. You want to do anything to get a hit. Then you feel like you maybe got cheated out of a strike. You know, you got yourself into a one-two count instead of a two-one count. count, that's when you get frustrated. And it's a good thing that umpires. Obviously, they would know that. But there are some guys that maybe they're frustrated too.

Those two combine, I don't, like I said earlier, this is going to be a very interesting year for all of that. Just because I do believe there's going to be suspensions. If a guy gets into an umpire's face, they just can't have that. So the way to counteract that is to lay a hammer down on the first guy that does it. Right. Well, exactly. And that's a good point.

If it happened, you know, the first time it happens, I lay pity on the poor soul because he might be the set the, you know, set the example. But, you know, it's funny you talk about that, Trevor, because baseball is a very frustrating game. I mean, obviously, you know, you are not successful at bat way more times than you're successful. You know, and it's a different type of frustration at the same type of thing with umpires. I mean, you're on the road for several weeks. You haven't been home. You haven't had an off day or your off day was a travel day. And, you know, you didn't really get to enjoy it.

It's hot and stuff. And you try not to have any of that affect you, but you're human. And sometimes, and then when you get what you might, on our side might feel like it was an unfair comment or unfair type of thing. And it can trigger, you know, a frustration on our end also. And to be quite honest, sometimes you can be in a slump as an employer. I mean, sometimes you're just. I mean, I remember my second year in the big leagues in 87, and it was my sophomore year, so to speak,

and it was my toughest year, no doubt, in my whole career. But it seemed like not only was I struggling, it seemed like every weird thing happened to me, the obstruction call, the interference call, you know, the stuff that you don't see all the time, I was getting them. And then they weren't believing me much anyway, and then I threw in an obstruction or something. You know, like, you know, who, who, what's going? And that was a very frustrating year for me. And I just said every time I walked on the field,

I just had to try to blank that out and just say, again, it's a new game. Let's just, you know, approach this this way. But there are times where, you know, this season is a marathon, maybe not so much this year, but a marathon. And, you know, there are times where, you know, I'm working to play at every fourth game and boom,

and I have three or four or five play games in a row just nails and just everything's going smooth. And then one day I'll walk out there, for no apparent reason, I'm not seeing the ball very well. You know, and suddenly you're missing a couple of close pitches and you go, now you're pressing. And of course, guys are getting a little frustrated. It happens. And you try to get out of that as quickly as you can.

But it's a very, very frustrating game for everybody out in ball. That's funny, man, because there's the old baseball adage, you know, like, say a third baseman's having a bad day, like, here comes the next one. And the way you're saying it, that's kind of the same thing with umpires. Like, oh, here's a rule point four point seven B and here comes 13.13. I mean, does it, it feels that way? Well, you know, you know, there's, you know, in the course of a, I mean, how many instructions do I call it a season? I might have three, maybe, you know, maybe, I mean, some seasons you don't have any.

You have a few more interferences, catch your interference or, or, you know, a base running interference or something. But they're not normal. They're not every day you're going to have obstruction or that kind of stuff. And so a lot of times when you have a different type of ruling that you don't see all the time, first of all, the players aren't quite sure what the rule it is or what the rule should be, the managers. I remember one time Milwaukee manager, gosh, I can't think his name right now. He was a bench coach for years and years ago.

I'll think about it. He came out. We explained a rule to him, and he goes, I have no idea, so I'm just going to go with you. You know, it was like I would argue, but I don't even know what I'm arguing. So I'm just going to go and just go. But when you have those types of things, if you're like I was talking about my sophomore season when I was struggling and you have those kinds of things, it just piles on. It's just like of the four of us out here, I'm the struggling and I'm the one that has the obstruction. Why is that happening? And so it's, it's,

but again, like a player, and I think we might have talked about this last time, you have to, if you make a mistake, you got to, you got a short memory because you got another, you got another play. You got another call. You got. got another pitch and you can't dwell on that because, you know, here comes another one. Let's go. You know, so it's very mental. I thought of a question. I don't want to forget it.

So I'm just going to, it's no segue. I'm just changing subject now. Did you, is your strike three call natural or did you practice it and develop it? And did your strike three call change from rookie Dale Scott to veteran Dale Scott? It was not my rookie Dale Scott Strike 3. It evolved. I think the strike, you know, I'll ask you a question, Trevor, just a second, but it evolved. And I think it was really about, I started 86.

I'm thinking it was right around early 90s that I really started settling into what I did the rest of my career. And I have had, it is amazing from umpires around the country, you know, college, high school, umpires. So when I do camps and clinics and talk to people, um, one of, you know, probably 70%, 80% of the time, they mentioned, I loved your strike three call. You had the greatest strike three call. And so, and so when you hear that, you just, of course, stay with it. Now, I was going to ask you, Trevor, though, do you guys laugh at some of these different,

or even notice some of these different strike calls and strike three calls of guys have. Yeah, I mean, the obvious one is who we mentioned earlier, Tom Halley, and he does the, you know, the cyclone, whatever it is. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. The first time he does it to you, you're like, what did I do to deserve that, Tom? Like, I'm already mad, you know, like, why are you, don't show me up or whatever.

But then he just realized it's like hilarious. And now, or towards the end of my career, it's like, Tom's behind the plate, boys. Come on, come check this out. Make sure you get a good view of this. Our classic. He has a classy. I hurt, my body hurts every time I see him do it, you know, how he torques himself and everything. I mean, I've had a couple players throughout my career, say, my number, they're coming up

their first sabbat ago. My number one goal is for you not to, because I would punch, I would punch. They go, my number one goal today is for you not to hit me in the face. Yeah, I was going out. But to answer your question, that wasn't necessarily natural. It just kind of evolved to that, you know, a little combination of watching other guys and what felt, well, you know, what felt good for me. When you called balls, did you, was it just said nothing?

Because Jake and I both like when I'm just go, no, that's outside or that's high. And you can hear him say it. And also, that's kind of a question for you, Treve. Do you like that? Love that. I love when you, I mean, because you're going to ask that question anyway. Either the catcher's going to ask it or the hitter's going to ask it. You know how much we talk.

I'm like, hey, Dale, like, where you got that? Right, right. You know, a common question that hitter will ask an umpire. Is that it? Is that the edge? Like, you're going any further than that? Right. And that's kind of like a little mental warfare there.

Like, hey, you called that one. I think that's the edge. And if you say it's the edge, then I know. You're going to do your damn just not to go past that again. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. You got to ask those type of question.

You know, I'm looking at, I just, I just googled the Dale Scott hammer call. It's a step back. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Drop step. Clear the air and then it's a, hoof. Yeah, you've got to take the step back or it's not authentic.

It's a nice one. But you're taught in an umpire school not to give direction, directional on a ball call. It's just fall or ball one, ball two, whatever. But it's like Trevor. So in the real world, you know, it's not an obvious ball. You don't have to say a lot of times I wouldn't even voice them or I'll voice them very lightly or whatever. But the ones that are close, you know, ball, that's out, you know.

Okay. And just let the catcher and hit her know because I won't necessarily yell at everybody else. But it's because I know they're going to ask anyway, one way or the other. Yeah. I like that. That was good. There was one. Thank you.

I had something that was saying. in the conversation we were having. No, I took over that. And it was actually part of our conversation. Because last time we talked to Dale, I had so many questions that I forgot because I had them. Well, I'm sorry. You can borrow my computer, too.

So you can go first. Well, this is a double segue because this is from our conversation last time. Still segue. So that's a double segue. You know, I've had concussion. It's the umpire travel. We talked about it last time a little bit, and, you know, people kind of don't understand the rigors of that. And now that's kind of been the big topic around this baseball scene.

I mean, we're realigning divisions and the schedule and everything. Have you heard anything on the umpires front? Are they staying regional? Because that would make sense, right? Again, I haven't heard it since they finalize it, but I talked to Danny I, Sonia is one of my best friend in the game. And we worked 10 years together, which was over, over, over 1,200 games together, which is amazing. That's awesome. But they were talking about for the umpires, they would stay wherever the visiting team is staying that hotel, they will stay at that hotel, which isn't normal during the season, during a regular season. We usually don't stay.

We do once in a while, but we usually try not to stay at the visiting team hotel for obvious reasons. But so for this year, I heard that they're going to, they would like them to be in the same hotel as the visitors. and, you know, they, you know, they're, they're quarantined also. I mean, they're not supposed to be going to a game and then, you know, hit a couple bars and, you know, and they go out. And, you know, to get a lot of room service and that kind of stuff. It's going to be very, very strange. I mean, I, I'm, you know, if I was still working, it would be a, you know, just like the, like the players, it's very, it's very tough to, to be shackled like that, I mean, so to speak, you know, I mean, you understand why.

You get, you get the whole reason and you understand the whole, what could happen. But it's just going to be so different, no fans in the stands, you know, it's going to be very strange. It'll be, you know, it'll be great to see, you know, for fans, sit and you can turn on a game and watch it and finally get some live sports and baseball and that, that's all great, but, but it will be different. Yes, it will be different. No doubt about that. I mean, this is something for a different podcast, but I'm hearing they're not releasing the blackout restrictions for local people. You can't go to the games, but you also can't watch them. What are we doing, MLB? Whoa, that doesn't make any sense. It makes zero sense. I don't want...

The whole reason you black out is because you don't want it to affect ticket sales. I mean, you know, unless they're sold out or whatever, but... Yeah, I don't get that. But, okay, I have a question. I've been waiting to ask. I got to hear the answer, Dill. What you got? It's about the equipment. Because when I think about umpires, a lot of us go back to the big, burly chest protector that you're holding like this. First, did you ever wear one of those? No, that was an America League thing, the outside protector.

It was grandfathered out the last time it was used. Jerry Newdecker used it, and he retired in 1985. Is that? Okay. So you didn't use it. I did not. I feel like that protects you more. Or is it just such a nuisance to hold it? Is that why they didn't want to use it anymore?

Here's the problem with that. It was great for protection. Absolutely. Much better than the more we have now. But you had a tough time getting down to see the pitch. When guys worked the outside particular, when the American, remember it used to be the American League was a high ball, high strikes.

They called high strikes for the National League, little strikes. That's interesting. Now, you know, both leagues have been together since 2000. This and this all, this, this, uh, high strike, American League being a high strike all started because of the outside protector. So this is what was, uh, the reason why is with the outside protector, they would sit up right above the catcher's head, right behind the catcher's head,

which by the way is a terrible place to be for concussions and stuff. Uh, but of course, back then, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so they, They would have, and so they're much higher and their perspective, they're right in the middle of the, basically, of the plate, but they're much higher. And so they had a tendency to call the higher pitch in the zone and not the lower pitch. The National League always had the inside protector, and they would be in the slot, which is in between the hitter and the catcher, whichever side the hitter's on. And you have a little bit different perspective of the plate.

You're in a much better place as far as concussions in the slot, but you have a much better perspective, both on the high and low pitch, where otherwise it used to be the high pitch. So it was a great protector as far as that goes. After the, you know, balls hit, it's a pain in the rear because you got this thing. And the guys are really good at taking the mask off and pitted up against their side. And, you know, they were taught that and all that. I never had to go through that. But they were very good at it. But the bottom line is it was kind of bulky and in the way once the ball was hit. But the main reason was because you just weren't seeing the strike zone as well as you should. Okay. Then I wanted to go off of that and ask about the helmets. Why, you know, I've asked

catchers this question a lot. You know, a lot of guys wear the old school face mask with the batting helmet. Some guys have converted to the hockey mask. Did you try different ones during your career and find one was better suited for you? Or were you always, I'm looking at your video now and you have just the regular face mask. Right. The, you know, the helmet didn't even come around. I'm not even sure it went, but I was well into my career. It was like the early 2000s was the big hockey helmet. Was Yaddy the first guy to do that? A lot of people did. And then it fell out of favor pretty fast as well. But the, as far as umpires were in the, we call it the bucket, you know, with the face mask and the helmet, uh, I tried it one time in screen training. I didn't even try it

during the game. I just one of the guys had one. So I put one on. And, and, And immediately I said, I can't, that's not me. I mean, I'm a sweater. I would have been on hot days. I would have blown out. Because you don't take those off. Well, the other ones you can move and do easily. Correct.

And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, that, that, that eventually forced me out of the field. I don't think the helmet would have any difference whatsoever because, now, on a, on a back swing every once while an umpire will get hit. It's rare, but it can happen. The helmet would be very. very nice for that.

But, but, you know, those shots into the mask and stuff, you know, the helmet, in fact, I don't know if this is true, but if you're, if you're in a helmet and you have no place to go, you know, maybe you're, you know, your reaction from the foul ball or whatever is up against the helmet. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But the point is I tried it. It wasn't for me. And it's totally umpire option. To go off the equipment questions, I believe.

Steve, last time we had you on, I read that when red became an option for umpires, you were one of the only umpires that wore red. Yeah, that's a funny story. I believe it was. When was this? What did it? Red? Yeah, it was for five years.

And only in the American League. They had, we had, we had dark blue shirts or a red shirt. And the guy, the nationally called him bowling shirts. You're going to wear your bowling shirt? Yeah. And none of the guys liked it. And I worked with Dave Phillips, Rocky Row, and Durwood Merrill. And Davey was the crew chief.

And Davey and Rocky hated them. So when I, every time I had the plate, if it was warm weather, I would put on red just because they would have to put on the red. Just to piss them up. And, you know, they would, they would wear windbreakers sometimes when it was still warm because he didn't have to wear the red. You know, he was like, you know. But that's the whole reason. So every time I had the plate, unless it was too cold, I started wearing the red shirt. It was almost like a branding or a marketing thing.

The only other guy in the America League that did that was Darrell Cousins behind the plate. So, you know, if your channel surf had ever again come up or some highlights, if you saw a red shirt, you almost automatically do. It was either Darrell or myself. But it all started to just to get those guys. And Rocky Roe, Rocky's a funny guy. A lot of times when I had the plate, he had third base. So I put him in the red shirt, and Ruckoo's kind of the big guy.

He's lost a lot of weight since him, but he was kind of a big guy. And he goes, I hate that red. Every time I have to rotate to second base, I look like a human blood clot. I just pulled up a picture. It looks nice. It is kind of jarring in my brain because I've never seen that. Yeah. I was the only umpire to wear a red shirt in the World Series.

Game 3, 1998. Yankees at Padres. That's a red shirt. That's how you get yourself some bullet point, like claim to fame's right. That's right. Speaking of, this is kind of where we wanted to have you on. It is Pride Month. Well, and I was just going to say, being a gay guy, I've got to wear the red.

Hello. I mean, it's kind of the rule. I'm looking at the picture now. It looks great. Yeah. I love the red. I didn't remember that at all. This was 98, it looks like.

It was, I believe the years we had it was 96, 97, 98, 99. 95 through 99 I believe You got the pen in the pocket I mean this is a great picture of you It's a show look It's a show look So for those that don't know you You came out of the closet publicly in 2014

So you're the first openly gay umpire it says But you got to be the first openly gay person On a major league baseball field during play like players and umps I would I was the first male official in the top five sport active male official the top five sports to come out. There's been, Dave Palone came out after he was left the National League, you know,

when he was retired. The first female was a few months before me. Charlotte Palmer NBA official. She had come out, I think, that August, or that summer of 14. But yeah, you know, I, my story was, I figured out who I was when I was like 19 years old.

And I, and I, and so it's one of those things that I just remember it was just like oh I get it I see you're gay all right so now what are you going to do about it you know I mean and and I just told myself you know as an umpire you don't have a lot of a nuance you're either outer save it's not like oh he's out he's out the tag was kind of late but that throw is good but the slide but you know I don't have time to do all that I you know it's umpire brain all the time I like it exactly it's it's it's you know it's outer safe fair or foul you know and and and and and and And so when I realized who I was and that I was gay, I looked myself in the mirror. I said, okay, what are you going to do about it? Because I swore that day that I'm not going to live my, I'm going to look in the mirror every day and lie to myself and lie, you know, and have a girlfriend or have a wife and be in a marriage that isn't true. I just wasn't going to do that.

Now, I realized also that I had to, what I call, play the game. I also realized, I may not lie to myself, but I'm going to have to lie to a lot of people. Yeah. You know, I mean, this was 1979. And so things were a lot different then, obviously. So, so that was my story. So I went to Empire School in 81. You know, I went through the minor leagues.

I went through, you know, I went through, you know, the big leagues. It wasn't until, it wasn't until about 98 or 99 in spring training. we were at this little bar in Tempe that we are a lot of umpires go to minor league umpires and you know just kind of a place we go and um I didn't know umpire bars exist I was just going to ask where is that bar don't share no don't tell the players don't tell the players every once in a while it was a small little place I don't even think it's there anymore but every once well because I was there for instruction he said a player would wander in and he's looking around and going I'm outnumbered I'm getting it.

I'll tell you what, actually, give me the name, I'll tell the players, and then I'm sure these guys will start sent in. Let me buy a round for the Olympires. Make sure you tell them it's from me. Yeah, yeah, make sure they know. But anyway, one of the guys, Rick Reed, you know, the American League Empire, you know, we were sitting kind of on the side BS. And out of nowhere, he said, actually the first guy was Gerald Cousins,

and Rick Reed, let it wrong. But Gerald Cousin said out and over, he goes, hey, Scotty, he goes, I just want to tell you. that I know you got a little bit different lifestyle than most of us, but I don't care. You're a great guy. You're a great umpire. I'd walk on the field with you any day.

I just wanted you to know that. And I, of course, my defenses go up because, ooh, how do you know that? It's probably pretty obvious because I had the same roommate for a decade. And, you know,

what did you in the opposite season? Well, my roommate and I went to Australia. Oh, really? Well, that's normal. You know. But, but, But anyway, it was the first time somebody just acknowledged, you know, that what was happening.

And, you know, it took me, I mean, I did everything I could through minor leagues through my first, you know, 15 years in the big leagues. So keep that secret, you know. And because I, obviously early in my career, I thought it would jeopardize my chance of even getting to the big leagues or staying in the big leagues. And I certainly, you know, you had to remember, too, guys, you know, HIV and AIDS was happening in the early AIDS. and this is all through my minor leagues.

I went to the big leagues in the 86. This is all happening now. That was the part because there's a great article on Pinstry Valley that you did an interview with. And I think they do Yankee stuff. And as Yankee people, we shouldn't really be showing them. But it's a great article. I mean, and everyone should go read it.

But that, when that clicked and you mentioned the 80s and HIV and AIDS and all that stuff, like, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I mean, that that must have just been insanity. Well, it was a, it was a tough time to be a game man. I'll tell you that. Because, you know, at first we didn't even know what it was. It was just affecting our community. And so, you know, I lost friends.

And I've seen, and I didn't, I wasn't in San Francisco or New York where it was just a play. But, but as far as me in baseball, you know, if, even if, even if I had a minor league partner or a partner in the big league set was, was, was, very progressive, people were scared a little bit. They didn't know how it's transmitted. They, you know, they're going to use a bar of soap that I used or, you know, a towel that I, I mean, there was a lot of fear out there because nobody really quite knew what was happening. And so, you know, so there was that stigma that I obviously didn't want out and that kind of stuff. Now, you've got to understand guys at home in Portland, I was totally open. You know, I had a ton of gay friends and people, you know, so it wasn't like I was completely in the

closet 24-7. It was my baseball life that I was, which actually is a lot easier because we don't play in Portland. I'm not, I'm not, we don't have, uh, company picnics, you know, where, where all the umpires get together. The only time we're all together is our annual meeting and then is screen training you with some of the guys, depending on where you're at. That's about the only time you're all together, you know, uh, or you're together with a lot of guys. So I could, I could, I could, I could have that side of me and not be as obvious because you don't have those, you know, things like a few years. I was working in Portland and that kind of stuff.

But it was, yeah, it was one of those things that I just figured that, you know, I just, I would have been horrified if they would have found out. And quite frankly, I don't know what the response would have been back then. But as I gained an experience in baseball, I proved myself on the field and as a partner, as a good crewmate, it certainly helps that people like you before they find out, you know, find out something like that.

And so it was in the, like I said, late 90s, that I got a crew chief job. My first year as a crew chief was 2002, and it was so funny. We opened in San Francisco, and it was a day game. And so, you know, I worked the plate as the crew chief.

After the game, we went to Morton, so I have dinner. And I'm working with Jimmy Joy. Show dinner. That's a show dinner. It's a joke. Thank you very much. Spend a little of that per diem.

And plus you do the bartender, we've got a couple drinks. But my crew was Jimmy Joyce, Jeff Nelson, and Ron Culpa. And I'd worked the All-Star game with Culpa in the year before. And Colpa knew, you know, and he was one of the guys. But anyway, we're at dinner. Culper goes, all right, I can't handle this, the elephant in the room. We're going to be together all season. I want to bust balls like everybody else.

Chief, we know you're gay. Just open up, and so we can all have some fun. And I think Jeff Delson did a spit tape. And I think Jimmy Joyce grabbed the wine ball and just started drinking like this. But really what it did is it opened it all up. It just, you know, yes. And I'm glad Ron did it because it was kind of like they were on eggshells. They didn't want to offend me if they said something or blah, blah, blah,

you know, and, of course, I wasn't necessarily. You know, it's weird, guys, because, you know, I don't know if you're all buried, but we would go, you know, we'd work during the season, we get a week off. So we have a week off. And now we come back after, hey, what did you guys do? Oh, wife and I took the kids to the coast or the, you know, we did this. And, you know, I always, you know, I took the, out of black lab. I took, you know, you really can't, you really couldn't share your life.

because you had this this this this this wall that you were you didn't want anybody to penetrate and and I know that sounds you know kind of trivial but it does it takes something out of you because you can't you know these are guys that I really like that I work with you know and stuff and and I just felt like it couldn't be me and so it's a big relief when you're able to just yeah be who you are you know and so it was it was a progression but but everybody you know and and And Park Avenue, when I came out in 14th, the Park Avenue knew, I mean, they all moved. In fact, Mike and I, before we could be legally married, we were domestic partners so he could be on my insurance and that kind of stuff.

Yes. He even, he even had a spouse hired for a memory ID card, you know. And so, so, you know, it was not a bombshell to that. Yeah. And what about, what about players? I mean, obviously, you know, umpires and you're saying you share personal lives and you're traveling and you have, you know, your roommate. What about players? Was that ever, was it ever something that came to fruition or anything?

It's funny. I came out publicly in December of 2014. So it was, you know, a few months before any baseball was going to be played. And I wasn't really sure what, if any, you know, reaction would be once we got going. My very first spring training game on the very first, you know, like early, early March in good year, Arizona. It was the Reds and the Indians. And so Marlon Byrd, a long time outfielder for several different organizations. He was with Cincinnati. I'd known him, you know, Marlon for a long time. And like after the second inning, I'm standing over there by third base, and he's going to

the third base dugout, and he comes running in from left field. He goes, Dale! And he comes up, and he gives me a big bear hug. And he whispers to me, Dale, I'm so proud of you. You're free, buddy, you're free. And I'm like, wow, you know, I didn't see that coming. I said, you know, thanks, you know, thanks, Marley. I still got a calling on a check swing. You know that. You know, that's exactly what he was doing.

But, but, you know, it was, it was, you know, I thought it was really, really cool of him to say that. And one other player that game, that day, that game, when they were leaving after the fifth inning, when all the veterans go out see up on my, and all the guys that have three numbers coming. They don't play. But Joey Votto of the Reds, as he's walking by, he just said, Dale, congratulations, God.

I'm really proud of you. You know, I said, that was two players. I had the rest of that season, I had one other player, one base coach, and one trainer. That's it. And it was all positive. But, I mean, that was the only people that even mentioned it. And it was funny because when I came out and had interviews and all this stuff, I said, I really believe that once we get going again, the players and managers and media and

everybody else, they're just going to want me to get pitches and plays right. They could really care less about, you know, about my personal life. And frankly, either, you know, because it was a few months before baseball, either people just had forgot or it was like I had hoped business as usual. Yeah, I remember the story coming out. And I think that's kind of how everyone felt like happy that you didn't have to, you know, kind of walk around and not being your, you know, your full self in the baseball world. I think everyone was just accepting of it. And like you said, it was like, let's game on, man. Let's get back to work. Right. Because, you know, I mean, you know, I could, I could be the, the biggest heterosexual in the world. If I'm missing

pitches and plays, you're not going to be happy about it. Okay. But let me ask you, Trevor, I mean, obviously not out of anybody, but I assume you've played with gay teammates, either in the minor leagues, the big leagues, or maybe you didn't know about it at the time, or maybe you, maybe not. Maybe you didn't know of anybody. I don't know. But I have never had anyone that's been openly out. Definitely guys who like I kind of like have my suspicions, but that's their prerogative of when they want to share it with everybody. Right.

But but yeah, you have to assume that throughout my career, there's, I've definitely played with guys that are homosexual. And I wish they could come out and just be themselves. Yeah. Yeah. As a leader in the clubhouse, you just want guys to feel like as a safe space. You come and do your job. And you know if you're able to be yourself, you're going to play to the best of your ability. Right.

Instead of having to hide something, whatever. So, you know, unfortunately, it didn't really. It never happened on any of the teams that I played with. Like I said, I've had some suspicions every now and then, but nobody ever, you know, came out, you know, in the clubhouse and said that. But I assume that eventually we'll hear stories. And oh, yeah, I'm playing with that guy. And I remember. Well, you know, Billy Bean, who, who, he, he, when he came out to a, Brad, Brad

Osmos, I think was, I think he was in his wedding. And, I mean, they were really good friends when they play and stuff. And, of course, he came out after the fact, after they were going to play and all that stuff. And I remember, Billy telling me that, that, Brad said, why didn't you, dude, why didn't you tell me? You know, you're my brother, man. You know, I would never, but see, you don't know that. Yeah.

You know, it's not like, you know, it's like, it's like, you know, a little bit pregnant. You're the pregnant or you're not, you know. It's like when you tell somebody I'm gay and they go, there's a bad reaction. You go, I'm just kidding. I just want to see what you do. I mean, you, you know, people that I had come out to throughout the years in different, you know, baseball, non-baseball, whatever, you know, a lot of times I thought, oh, I'm sure they'll be good with it. But you never quite know, you know, you never quite. know until it's there, until it's out there. And so, but, you know, as I've gotten older also,

and, you know, Mike and I had legally married the year before I came out publicly, and that was one of the reason I did. I thought this is ridiculous. We fought so hard to get this, you know, to get the right to marry, and now I am married, and I've been with the same guy since 86, and, and who am I hiding? I mean, you know, frankly, I came to the point where after I came out, If you got a problem with this, really pretty much your problem. It's not mine. Yeah. I agree.

I love the reaction of Ron Copa in that story. First of all, that is a cast of characters right there. The four of you together, that's a great crew. Yeah. And if there was to be one guy to say something like that, it would be Ron. Absolutely. He speaks his mind. It doesn't matter if, you know, whatever day you're having, if you talk to Ron, he's going to tell you what he thinks.

It doesn't matter. Ron has no filter. honestly I would assume that a lot of clubhouses if there was a player to come out and to open up that's the reaction that a lot of guys would have or like want to like all right dude like I'm happy like we're happy for you that you know I was going to ask you that we just want to have that that you know that true relationship you know I don't think anybody would have a problem well Ron's whole thing and I love Ron to death he's such we worked together several years and Ron's whole thing was you know I want to bust falls, man. I want to, if we're out having a beer, what do you think of that guy? He wanted to have, just like, just like you, his players do and umpires do throughout, throughout a season. And that's the whole reason why he said, let's just throw this out here.

Let's not play this, you know, it was opening day for God's sake. That's awesome. It's really fun he did that. I really can imagine him saying that. Yeah, I mean, if you know, Ron at all, that's classic Ron, you know. But, you know, you were saying, coming out is a very, very, very personal. decision. And in a perfect world, everyone would come out and you would be amazed how many people that you deal with, you know, at the grocery store, at the sporting goods, or whatever,

that you have no idea that, you know, that is gay. But I do understand how personal the decision that is. And you can't just, the only time, the only time that I think someone should be outed is if it's a somebody like a politician or somebody that votes against every gay thing in the world, but they're gay. That to me is just too hypocritical. Which has happened. Which has happened. Yes.

Yeah. A couple different times. Yes. Yes. That we know of. Yes. Yeah. I did misspeak earlier.

Glenn Burke was the first openly gay baseball player and also invented the high five. So two pretty cool things. Oh. Yes. And he came out to his team and I think he got eventually blackballed in a way. Right. And he played in the gay softball league, and he would just kick all the firemen and the policeman's asses in San Francisco. That's true. That is true.

And he was. And that's why I was interested in what Trevor is saying as far as a clubhouse, you know, now versus a clubhouse 20, 25 years ago. I remember the topic came up. I don't know why exactly. But it was like in the late 90s, I want to say, there was a couple. Relief pitchers. I remember one for Detroit. I forget his name, but he came out, you know, in an interview, he said, I would have a real problem with it. I'd have a real problem being in the clubhouse with a gay dude. And, and I don't think that was the overall thought by everybody, but you still, that in your mind, you say, you know, it's just not right. And, you know, athletics is a different thing. You're, you're in locker rooms together in that kind of sense. It's not like you're just at the office and then you go home or whatever. So, you know, there's different things. But I'm, I'm, I really, hopeful and will be thrilled when a player does come out at some point. And not so much, you know, it's going to be a whirlwind at first and whatever, but that opens up the door for

for down. I'm not saying baseball's full a bunch of gay guys. What I'm saying is so, it's, it is so important to be true to yourself. And I've learned there's, there's so many gay teens and stuff, suicides. There's so many people that, let me, if I can give you a quick story, when I came out in 2014, I got a ton of emails. And they were all positive and they're from all around the world. And 98% of them, I didn't know who these people were. But I got one from a young man in the L.A. area who was a senior in high school. He umpired baseball.

He was gay. He was not out. His goal, he wanted to be a major league umpire. And ironically, I was his favorite umpire. Yes, yes, we do have fans. And so, uh, wait a minute, hold on, hold on. We'll get, that's another one. We'll get to that later.

Yeah. Wait, he said you were his favorite, uh, favorite umpire before you came out. Right, right. Just because he was an umpire that, I guess he had good gator. I don't know. Oh, that's strike three, like the drop step. The drop step in the punch. And the red shirt.

So. Yes. Yeah, that's what it was. And so, uh, I get, I get an email from him and he said, he said, uh, You know, my goal in life, I want to be a majorly gunfire, and I never thought I would have the opportunity because I'm gay. But now I know if I don't make it, it's because I don't have the talent, but it's not because of who I am. That's pretty powerful.

You know, that's pretty powerful. And he asked when I, next time I was doing, the Dodgers, if we could have lunch, we did. I met up with him and had lunch. It was about a week before he graduated high school. a great kid, about two months later in August, right before he was going off to college. I was back in L.A. We had lunch. I said, hey, by the way, how did a graduation go? I see the last time you were graduating. He goes, oh, it went great. I came out to everybody

that night. And I went, oh, oh, really? He goes, just because of you, too. And I said that. I said, well, how did that go? And he goes, yeah, pretty well. you know, I mean, you know, but I love that story because I don't know how many people might coming out touched or affected or whatever. That's one that I do know of. And just the fact that he can say, you know, I know now that it's not me holding me back. I may not have the talent to be there, but it's not because of who I have. That's big. Yeah.

And I mean, that's just the ripple effect of, I'm sure, then him coming out that night inspired some classmate that. I hadn't thought about it and all that. So, I mean, would you, have you become a safe haven and obviously don't say anyone? But like, I'm guarantee, I'm guessing minor leaguers and players or there have been people within baseball that have reached out to you. And I think in the article you said you've kind of become a coach of sorts for people. Well, yeah, I not so much in professional baseball. I've had one working trainer who's in the closet. And again, you know, you're wrapping ankles and giving massages and whatever.

And I can see where guys might be a little uncomfortable if they, you know, I mean, they shouldn't be. But I can see where that. I don't know. That's, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. I mean, I'm wrapping my ankles, massaging me. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's just part of the game. Yeah. And, you know, trainers.

I definitely can't speak for everybody. Right, right. And trainers do that all the time. But all of a sudden, if a guy knows, well, that's a gay trainer, I don't know. I mean, again, I think, you know, they're professionals. they're doing their job. It's what they do. But I've had, I've had a couple,

a couple minor league umpires that have, that have contacted me. Some are, some are still in the game. A couple of are still in the game, and most of the other ones, most of the five or six of them, and most of them are out of the game.

And then I've had a lot of amateur umpires, you know, college and high school and that have just contacted me. And just, you know, just sometimes maybe just for somebody to lend a near that understands maybe what they're going through. All those emails I got when I came out. I mean, I, you know, non-sporting, worthy, police, fire doctors, lawyers that aren't out. But they said, I'm one step closer because of your article. Because of you, you know, and thank you very much.

That's really cool. And then I had a ton. I had a ton of official soccer, football, baseball, baseball. basketball, just again saying that, you know, they're close, they're not quite there. They were, you know, they were very encouraged by my story. So if it helps, I hope it does. It sure freed me up and made me feel like I went full circle. I am who I am.

And it was very nice to know that there really wasn't, I didn't have any player or manager. I didn't have it. I'm not saying it didn't have it, but I never heard any fans say anything derogatory during that. I had one guy in Atlanta right in my rear at third base all game, but it was all about Oregon Duck football and how bad the Pac-12 was. As an SC fan, I can tell them. The Pac-12 needs a step it up.

Oregon's going to be good this year. I'm telling you. We say that all the time, but then you run into the SEC buzzsaw every. We barely, barely lost to Auburn last year. I know, I know. Nine seconds left. I was there.

That game was something else. That's a tough one for the duck faithful. Oh, man, it was a shot to the heart. Go ducks. He was justified in writing you about the ducks. He was. He was. One of the funny emails I got was, I am shocked and appalled that Dale Scott came out as a duck fan.

And then the next line was, but it makes a lot of sense with all the uniform changes. It was good. Oh, that was good. That's funny. That's pretty good. Yeah, be witty with the, with the, with the, yeah, fake hate mail. Dale, you're awesome. We do, we do have to start kind of wrapping up a little bit.

And man, what you just said is some powerful stuff and your impact on people that, you know, I think people just forget sometimes, like when someone says, oh, I didn't think I could be an umpire. I'm gay, and it's like, that's crazy. And that's part of the reason I hope that you didn't hear from too many people on the field after that point was exactly what you were saying. And that's, I mean, that's part of the reason why I love sports. I don't care if you're gay. I don't care if you're black.

I don't care. Male, female, I don't care. Like, let's play the game. Like, let's line it up by the rules. So thank you for that. And another just final anecdote from me, my girlfriend, I'm bragging you, Dale. I have a girl. No.

My, she, uh, beard, beard. I still love you, Jake. A lot of, well, no, a lot of people always ask me and Jimmy and a lot of our old school fans, and they'll be like, how do they deal with you guys, blah, blah, blah, blah, and my girlfriend, she's not a big baseball fan, but, you know, she puts up with enough to hang around me. And one day, you know, it came up, and, you know, just in normal conversation, she was like, well, how many gay players are there right now? And that was kind of one of those moments for me that, like, you just, you have,

absorb and you don't think. And it's like run the numbers, people. You know, there's 750 players per team more, or in the league. And, you know, over the history, there's 20,000 baseball players. Like, put it together. So I hope we can help make everyone more comfortable. Because when you take a step back, it's like, man, we just kind of missed it. Yep.

Well, we'll have to have you on again because there's tons of more questions. We can do a full album review on Joe West's country album. want. No, no Joe West. I will say you have a very extensive Wikipedia page, a lot of accolades throughout your career in Major League Baseball, and now you can add onto it. Maybe the most prestigious award or I don't even know what to call it. You're the first repeat guest on talking baseball. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. That's a big deal. I'll be looking for the plaque in the mail. I just real quickly, thank you for having this topic, the pride topic.

I think it's important. I know maybe a lot of baseball fans just want to talk about baseball, and that's fine too, but that I appreciate you giving me the chance to talk to you guys about that year. I really do. Of course, we love it. We've got to have you back once baseball start. Well, you're our new umpire. The first controversy will call.

You're back. I'll be ready. Mike Farree up Dale Scott. for baseball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. And there you have it. Like we said, he's the best, got that booming radio voice.

I still want to ask him, be honest, the zone expands on a 3-0 pitch and here what he's responses. But we've 0 for 2 now. I've went into both interviews wanting to ask that question. Yeah. We'll get him next time. That drops that, man. Yeah, it's a good strike three.

I mean, I felt bad because I was on my phone, but I was, when you said you looked it up and saw it, Treve, I had to look it up and see it. Yeah, and he did the unthinkable. He may be like Ron Copa. Ron Copa is the first breakdown that got millions of views for me. When he told AJ Hinch, I can do whatever I want. That's exactly what Ron Cople will tell you. It doesn't matter.

Even if he's wrong, he's right. That is an awesome story by Ron Cope. Yeah, so Ron. It really paints him in a better life. I forgive you for all the bad calls against me. And it's funny. And that's kind of like I had like, you know, we've had friends come out of the closet. I have cousins coming out of the closet.

And it's so much, it's such a breath of fresh air. Like I had a really good old, old friend. And he was so sensitive when, like, whenever we would bust balls. And once he came in the closet, it was just like, oh, okay. Well, now I'm going to like, you know, we can bust balls about this, the same way Dale was saying Culpa wanted to do. And it just blossomed the friendship because now it was like where I actually know everything about you. And, you know, it was really cool. So that's a cool story about Colpa.

And on the other side of that is the Culpa side of, you know, know kind of the intimidating, the guy from the breakdown who's yelling like, I'm the boss. But guess what? You can still kind of have that tough guy, whatever you want to call that personality, and still be a real person and have feelings about your friends and people. And people you don't know either. Yep. Look at that.

Cool. Talking baseball. Be yourself, people. We love you. Yes. All right. Thank you guys very much for listening. We'll be back in a couple days with another episode.

Hopefully we start previewing some baseball. should be fun. Goodbye.