Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 185 | Matt & Rob Lowe Hate the Astros

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

Jomboy, Jake, and Plouffe talk to Matt and Rob Lowe about their Dodger fandom. The duo shares their thoughts and stories on Joe Kelly being their new hero (4:10), concerns about the LA bullpen (11:00), sitting next to Vin Scully during the 2017 World Series Loss (14:00), throwing out the first pitch (17:25), Rob's infamous NFL hat (22:45), and potentially facing Houston in the World Series again (24:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Talking Baseball. We have a very fun interview for you, Matthew and Rob Lowe. Let's do it. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Talking Baseball. My name is Jimmy. Sitting next to me is Jake. In California is Trevor.

And behind the plate is producer BBD. We're coming to you live from the Roosevelt Studios. This will not be an episode of Trevor's tidbits, which we usually do every Tuesday. Because when you get Rob Lowe, to come on the pod to talk Dodgers, to talk Astros, to talk baseball in general. You have Rob Lowe and you give him the slot that he deserves, which is as soon as possible. Jake, Trev, we just ended this. And I think we all came away saying the same thing.

That's a ton of fun. It's perfect. A lot of fun. He's a star, man. Like, we were talking about it after we wrapped up as A-list as it gets. He's been around forever. Like decades upon decades in Hollywood. Love it.

Yeah. And a real baseball fan. That's kind of like, look, we're not just going to bring anybody on. He really is into baseball. He had some great insight on the Dodgers, Astros thing. Him and his son. Great. That was fun.

We met them briefly at California Strong charity event. And Matt's awesome. Rob's awesome. Rob's who you think he is. He was, like, getting intense for the celebrity softball game and, like, stretching and getting loose. And, like, I think he was talking about pitch sequencing. And, yeah, I mean, this combo.

It's awesome. It's, if you sit down next to a guy at the bar and you talk about your baseball team, that's exactly what it was with a little bit of Astros hate. Yep. All right. We won't make you wait any longer. Throw it right to there. Here we go.

We are joined by two of the few fans you will see in baseball stadiums this year. We got the low boys. Rob and Matthew Lowe. Boys, how you doing? We're good. We are, uh, we're so glad baseball. is back, you know, even if it just means that our cardboard versions of ourselves are there. But our card, what does it say that our cardboard versions of ourselves, the Dodger Stadium,

have better seats than our physical. It's tough there. I was going to say, did you get to choose the seats that the cardboard cutouts are in? No, but I was glad that we're in the, you know, there's that permanent camera shot that, you know, you like hope you're in or don't hope, depending on what your deal is. But I was glad we're in that little upper left-hand corners. Yeah, you're in every highlight. It's awesome.

It's like watching regular season, and you're seeing Marlins man there, but now you're getting us. Yeah. Perfect. You guys are coming for them. I love it. Well, the last time we saw you guys was at the California Strong softball event, and Rob, Dallas Braden, was blowing up your hand at first base.

So I just wanted to do a follow-up. How's it feel, or is it sore for a while? He? I was like, bro, you're not. not on the mound. You can take a little bit off of it. I believe you have like a tiny glove, too. I should have had gauze under the glove. I mean, honestly, my, my, that you everybody who plays baseball knows that feeling when it hits that, when it misses the webbing and it hits that sort of sweet spot and you just want to throw your mitt and go, but I don't think that was a good look for me,

so I didn't do it. You could have been all right. I would have been screaming if I was out there. It was fun. That was fun game. Yeah, that's a really good event. I mean, we're hoping to be there again next year as well. Flyovers, Malibu, that was beautiful. Hopefully we can have some people in the stands next year, and I'll enjoy that. Yeah, for sure.

I want to talk about the Dodgers. I want to talk about Dodgers Astros. I want to ask if Joe Kelly is your guy's new hero. Has you been? I see that I like the shirt there. Are you guys dialed in for that, that game? Were you, like, hoping that that was going to happen? We saw that.

We saw that live. was texting Dave Roberts before and after. And I love Dave. He used to become a good friend. And what I love about his text is that he always manages the fine line between a major league manager who is a major league manager and then just being a bro. So it's great. Joe Kelly, that was, I mean, that's instantly a Dodger. highlight that goes up there with, I mean, it's, it's up there. It's not Kirk Gibson. It's not Kirk Gibson.

Do you guys think that was intentional? You watched the game. He was all over the place. I'm on record as saying none of the pitches were intentional except maybe that 3-0 pitch. I saw your breakdown. By the way, I love your breakdowns. I think your breakdowns are always spot on. And I 100% agree with it. I do. I think, look, I love Joe Kelly. I'm not sure he could pitch. I love him. Listen, I love him. Let's, let's be, but I'm not sure he knows where to put the baseball. But, but other than that, I tried to, I tried to get, um, they're there for his fighting spirit. Yeah, I tried to get Dave. I said, Dave, here's what I want you. Here's what would be the best. bring somebody up from AAA, bring them in against Bregman.

So everybody in the planet knows what this is. And let the guy beat him, take his fine, doff his hat, he would instantly be the most famous and beloved Dodgers since Roy Campanella. Okay. But that's why he's the manager and I'm not. Yeah, that would be a tough one. that guy, I mean, Joe Kelly got eight games for that. I know nobody here really agrees with that.

That's all such a bullshit. Because the other reason is it was not an obvious bean ball. That's the, in all seriousness, that's the other part. I mean. And he didn't hit him. And he didn't hit him. If there's a guy, if there's one major league pitcher that you want, if you're in a dunk tank and you're like, I'm going to pick one major league pitcher to try to not get me in this dunk tank,

Joe Kelly is the guy. He doesn't know where the ball is going. So, you know, he missed him. but eight games it is. I like the pick-offs afterward as well. I thought that was just rubbing salt in the wound. You just scared the hell out of him, throwing out of his head.

Now you're going to make him die back to first. That was fun. I mean, do you think we'll have any more fireworks, any more excitement when these teams match up again? 100%. And I love it because if I had a knock on the Dodgers, and it's similar to the last time they went to the World Series.

If you remember, in 88, in 80, before the 88 season, and they were good, but they never really got there. And then they needed a badass to come in, and they got Gibson. I think the Dodgers always lack a little badassery and a little fire. I think that's always their issue. It's an L.A. thing. I was going to say, it's kind of an L.A. thing, right? 100% it's a N.

So chill, yeah. It's 100% an L.A. thing. And everybody's young and cool, and they're great guys, great. So I love this. I thought it was awesome. exactly what the team actually needs. Forget the history of the asteros. Forget it. For the Dodgers, I thought, you know,

a little old school badassery goes a long way. Well, that's, and we wanted to ask you guys some, some Dodgers stuff outside of the Astros because one of our taglines is like, we, we can't watch all the baseball games. There's literally more than 24 hours of baseball games in a given day. We wanted to know, is there any low house bickering? Like, is anyone in on Corey Seeger and someone's out? Like, what, what's your,

your guy's biggest Dodger disagreement? We as a low family were until this season, I hate to say it, not the biggest Corey Seeger guy. Okay. He was so injury prone. He hadn't really proved himself. He was so highly touted. And then you had Cody Bellinger over here.

And it was always like Rob and I arguing with each other, like when the time comes, who are we going to spend the money on? And now it's just like, this year, I mean, Corey's kind of come around, man. Yeah, he's, that's been the biggest, I don't know, surprise, but that's definitely been the storyline, is Seeger being the guy, at least so far that everybody thought and said that he was. And Cody will get it together. I always think about like, if you're Cody, think of it from his perspective. You've had this great year, so you have all that pressure on you to be just in a vacuum. You'd have that insane pressure.

Then they go out and get mooky. and then they go out and extend mooki with him never setting foot in a batters box and you're bellinger i mean you'd have to be you'd have to have ice water in your veins to not get a little bit of the yips around that and the only bummer is we're playing such a shortened season that that i just don't know if the math is going to work out because over the long term there's just not an issue that guy is a stud cody belliger and scoffalo And Scott horses is. They're both, that's such a great problem.

We talk about it all the time on our podcast. The Dodgers have too many good players. And when you sign a guy like Mookiee do a deal like they did, like you have to be able to figure out the money with the other guys. So it'll be an interesting process to see what they do with Seeger, what they do with Bellinger, but it's like the best problem you can have in baseball. It's too many good players.

You guys as Yankee people knew way more about Mookie than we did as West Coast folks. I love that man. I mean, I love the little things he does. He does things that superstars just don't do anymore. And that ball the other day where he was running the base path, and he was like, they were just saying by the arc of the ball, he knew exactly he could keep going. It's little things like that.

Like, obviously him hitting dingers and whatnot, that's great. But just the little, like, baseball sense he has is incredible. I'm elated over that. Just elated. Have you seen, his highlights in other sports. I mean, there's like videos of him dunking. He's a professional bowler.

I mean, that's, that's why he's a five-tool player. He's just do it at every sport. Like, he's just amazing. Yeah, he's got great. And he's got great. I just love the, the fact that the Dodgers signed him like they did before, and he, you know, showed me that he's also a great dude, you know.

And I love the way he's the first guy in the dugout steps for when other guys have hit home runs and stuff. I'm just so psyched. we have them. How are you, where are you guys stand on the bullpen right now? Are you rooting for Kenley to lose his spot? Test, test someone else out there? Or do you still have all your faith? We got a little bit of an eye roll. We got a little bit of an eye roll. I, here's, I'll say this. Oh, no. And I, about five or six years ago, when I used to be in Dodger Stadium and I would hear California love come on, I knew the game was over. Now I hear California love come on and I'm like,

oh boy. Oh, yeah. We are very much still in a game here. So, I mean, God bless him. He's done so much for us. And he's such a good guy. He's so sweet. But, man, I just don't know anymore. That's kind of been the Dodgers' fault for a while,

the back end of the bullpen or the bullpen in general. They picked up a few guys this year in training and traded for graderol. So hopefully they can take a little bit of pressure off of Jansen because he is. He's such a big part of all of the Dodgers success. but the shelf life of the back end relievers isn't very long. So he's battling right now. I mean, it isn't very long in the perfect circumstances, but then, you know, he's had very serious health issues.

Very serious. I'm rooting for him. I'm rooting for me. He's a great, I don't know about all, but apparently he's one of the great dudes. But I also feel like there's this weird thing going on where like, you have to have a successor, even the best person needs a successor in waiting.

and I don't know if they put anybody in a position to be the successor in waiting. You know, it's like Eureus is now starting, and I'm not sure that's any great experiment. I don't know. We'll see. It's pitching tonight, I think. Yeah. Because that guy coming out of the bullpen, you know, who knows? I could see him as a little, you know, Rivera in the making.

I like that. I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is I don't know how you auditioned somebody is the closer without making Kenley not the closer. Closer comes in when a closer closes. And right now, the only closers coming in is Kenley. So how are you auditioning anybody? Yeah, you almost need Kenley, and it's hard in the 60 game set to get a slight injury. And then you test someone out. That's always what happened with the Yankees. Like, whenever Mariano got injured, David Robertson stepped up or Delampton stepped up. And then from there, they say, hey, I can do it. I did it that

week. Mariana was hurt. So yeah, it's hard to bump a guy out because that's his job. And The confidence kill there. So that's crazy. But Bruce Star looks good. Sorry, I think they'll see who if they get guys in high leverage situations like a Bruce star graderall, like the training.

And he continues to do well. And maybe Jansen struggles, you can see a flop because look, the Dodgers want to win the World Series. I mean, that's it. There's nothing else. Like if you go to the World Series,

no one cares. You have to win the World Series. So, I mean, I've seen one team, the team of Shan Lopi name, celebrate winning World Series on our, I'll never forget that game being there.

And we were, weren't we sitting next to? Vin Scully? We sat next to Vin Schully, the most painful Dodger game in history. I'll never forget as long as I live. The seventh innings coming around and Vin gets up to leave. And we're like, Vin, where are you going? This game is over.

Oh, goodness. We're done. What is Vin Scully like in a game that he's not announcing? Oh, okay, so this is the best. So this was the year before they put the netting all around. around first and second base line. And there was a big debate in baseball about how far the netting was gonna go

and it was it good, was it bad. And somebody said, well, you know, the Dodger, a kid got killed at Dodger Stadium years ago. And I was like, that's bullshit. And then a light bulb when I was said, wait a minute, Vince Scully's right behind me. And I turned around to then, I go, hey, Vin, it, Mr. Scully.

Mr. Scully, if ever there's a Mr. Scully, it's Mr. Scully. Was there ever, anybody killed by a foul ball in Dodger Stadium and it was like I'd turned the radio on. He was like, it was the end of a double header and an office night. A young boy had made the drive with his father up from Anaheim and Mani Moda stepped at bat and hit a line drive that hit the child on the head. The paramedics were called and he was taken out of Dodger Stadium to a standing ovation. He passed away in the car on the way to the hospital.

Jeez. Awesome to hear him say that horrible story to hear. I mean, it's like the darkest story that told him that Vin Scully way. Vin Scully bubble wrapped it for you. That's awesome. I mean, that is, that is, I wonder if he just, I always wonder if it in his head, is he just announcing, you know, or is he completely watching it a different style? Here's the other thing, by the way, about the Dodgers.

I love our Dodger announcing booth. I think are great. I think to follow up Scully, I mean, Hersheiser and God, what's our guys' name? Joe, Joe and Hirshyzer, they're great. They're great, great, great. They're not the same. They don't try to be the same. And I love listening to them.

Great. The Dodgers broadcast, not the announcers, the actual camera crew and the booth. They do the most amount of close-ups as you'll ever see a baseball team do. You guys probably watch it every day so you don't realize. But when I tuned in, I was like, oh, my God, they zoom in on the pitcher's face. It's all Hollywood. It's like all the emotions. They do so many player closeups.

It's funny you say that because a couple games ago, ESPN covered it. Oh, yeah. And it was the first, it was the, might have been the very, it was the opening day. It was opening day. And it was awful. Awful. Everything about it was awful. The announcers were on Zoom.

They talked over each other. They didn't know what was going on. The cameras were terrible. And I'm like, our local production is, is better. than this. Yeah, all the regional networks do a better job than the national. I don't think the national networks realize that. They missed the first pitch of that game.

They did. The first at bat. The first inning. I mean, I don't have as much other local experience. The only other local broadcast I watch is the Brewers and they have another great one as well. But I mean, it's so true. It's so funny how the biggest name just can't get it right.

And you go down to the locals and it's so much better. Yeah. That's crazy. We saw an opening day, Fauci, Thurie. out the first pitch. You did not go well. Rob, you've had to have thrown out a first pitch before, right? I've thrown out many first pitches and not to brag, but like Ty Cobb says, it ain't bragging

if you've done it. I've always either thrown a striker or even put it right there in the black. My nightmare is the Fauci. But I go whenever I'm doing it, I show up an hour before and go and pitch off the mound. Now, is it nerve-wracking when you're out there? What's really nerve-wracking is when you, because as civilians, you don't ever get to do it, is you go to the mound and you look at the catcher, but behind them are all the people. So the different colors, to the depth perception is what's really unexpected. Like, that's the thing that freaks you out.

But I love it. It's fun. I got to say, it's pretty fun. Yeah. I like that you do it from the mound. Are you on the hill, like on the bump on the hill? Oh, no, I have a whole thing I do because, like, sure. I'm not to check this.

showman it's ridiculous yeah not surprising go the whole way so usually what I do is I tell the catcher I go to the rubber right I go right out to the mound people go crazy for that and then the catcher then comes up like five feet in front of the plate and gets in his crouch and then I wave him off oh okay and I and I tell him to get like fucking get my fucking plate pal and then and then people go crazy and then you have to throw straight you have to yeah you're building it up for yourself. So now if you ever see him do this, like, I know this bit. I know what's coming.

That's a breakdown. For sure. We're going to have to look. We just got it. Which catcher has been like the most into it. Like, oh, I love it. I'll tell you, I threw out, so I grew up as a big red machine guy because I lived in Dayton, Ohio, and I still love the Reds. And my, the Castellini family are great, great family. And they own the Reds. And I threw out a first pitch there. And Puege, having been a Dodger, heard I was going to do it. And he asked to catch for me. That's cool. Which is so sweet and great. So it was definitely Yostiel Pugue as my catcher that was like the one who was most into it.

That's awesome. Wow. He's, yeah, he's as fun as it gets himself. So that's pretty cool. I was a, for both of you, and this is as Yankee fans, we've had a really good team the past few years. They had kind of their one comeback season, and that didn't feel like the Yankees. Like it was kind of the upstart Yankees. You never feel that.

And then the past couple years, it's weird because we try to do national baseball, but we're Yankee fans. And we say that. And, you know, last year, it felt like our year. I know Dodger fans have felt the same thing. Is it now that Mooky's there, does it feel more like your year? Or what are you guys? Are you just blinders on? Let's go get it or what?

I think that it feels more like our year, but I also feel like this is a new team with a new composition from the same team that we've had for the past, I would say, three or four years. Feels really different, a good and exciting way. Yeah. And again, and, And I just think that everybody from, you know, and again, I love Dave Roberts. He's one of the nicest men and smartest baseball guys. You know, but again, there's nobody who's a fucking dick involved with the Dodgers.

And I feel like in lieu of that, which I would have loved to have found somebody who was like that, I would have loved one of those horrible little astro assholes to come onto our team because I think we could have used that chemistry. But I do think all the nice guy Dodgers are like that they're over it. They're ready to go. Do you know what I mean? they don't want to be the Buffalo Bills. I think Walker Bueller brings some moxie to the mound.

Yeah, I like that. For sure. I like that. Yeah. Now, I have a question for you, Matt, and Robb as well. When you find out the aster's cheated and all that stuff and then you hear that stat that they did not have a single swing and miss at a Kershaw off speed pitch, do you have internally regret for some of the thoughts you may have had for Kershaw after

that out of. All I know is that Jack Davis and I have said unspeakable things about Clayton Kershaw in the wake of that World Series that I wish that I could take back so profusely now knowing what I know. You can. It's so sad, man. Darvish, too, right? I remember, I remember saying it looks like he's throwing batting practice. And then I realized he was. Yeah.

Because they knew what was coming. Well, look, I grew up in L.A. All my friends are Dodgers fans. They all say the same thing about Kershaw in the playoffs. It's not just the Astros that he had a tough time against. There's some other games. But that game in itself was nuts. Yeah, that's tough.

Guys, guys, guys. There was a time when Peyton Manning was that guy. We're like, he can't make it in the postseason. He needs to stop with all the gesticulating. He just fucking play football. That was a narrative for a long time. And he had a, and he was allowed his mom. moment to get over the hump.

The Astros robbed Clinton Kershiel of his moment to get over the hump. Yeah. I agree with that. He's one of the best pictures of our generation. Like, if not the best picture of our generation, so. And he looks like he's good this year. It looks like he's having a really good year so far. Knock on wood.

Yeah, so far. You brought up the NFL, Rob. Now, you made a lot of waves with your NFL hat. Do you have an MLB hat? Would you have? I do. I don't know. I have an MLB. They literally within 48 hours of wearing that hat, the MLB sent me their version of it. I have it in my closet. Did any obscure league, we'll send you a hat?

That would be funny if some like, you know, Lithuanian. That's really good. What would that be? Like, that's funny. Well, I have one that just says sports. That's made for Jake. That's, uh, he needs that hat. I love baseball.

That's where. There you go. We're pretty basic guys over here. Yeah. You know, this is the hat of hats. This is the one, I mean, you do love that hat. With everything I have going on in my life, it made me laugh that I'd be shooting like the season finale of 911 Lone Star and starting my podcast and my one-man show tour. But I would be holding all those meetings off while I was designing and personally paying for the production of Houston asterisk cats.

I mean, I really have my priorities in order, obviously. I have a question that we get asked as Yankee fans a lot. regarding the Astros, would you like to see them in the World Series and beat them? Or is the risk of losing to them again so much so that you'd rather them just be awful and not even make the playoffs? I want to see the Yankees more than anything in the world.

So there's that. I don't want them taking the Yankees slot. Okay. There's that. All right. I appreciate that. If it's not, God forbid, the Yankees, then I absolutely want to see those guys.

Listen, we haven't had. had a great old school rivalry in a long time. And we have one now, like a real one. Like these teams don't like each other, man. This is great. This is Celtics Lakers. It isn't for show. And every other sport, everybody's tweeting at everybody

and figuring out when they're gonna do an album together and all this bullshit. And like, this is what sports should be. Yeah, nobody likes the asterist. Nobody's like, hey, so and so on the ass shows. Let's hang out. Like everyone says, fuck you. to all the extras.

That's how it is. Yeah. That's great. All right. I mean, I thank you very much for joining us, Jake. You anything else? Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, you can hype your podcast on ours,

but I don't know if we have as much reach as your success has probably got it. I'll take, listen, I'm the new kid in the block. I'll take all the people I can. It's called Literally with Rob Lo. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. And this week is the great and hilarious David Spade. It is so funny. And yeah, it's particularly good.

And next week, do me more, a little brat pack reunion, a little, almost fire reunions. It's fun. I got to say, I'm a tough critic of his work. So it takes a lot of me to listen to it. And I listen to the Mike Myers one, and it was all-time funny. We wanted to ask about Mike Myers. You know, Wayne's World Awesome Towers.

Yeah. You got a big time. You should listen to the Mike Myers one because the notion that he spends all of his time painting portraits of Colonel Sanders is the all-time greatest story. It's pretty good. So genius. I want to tell you this before we let you go.

I've been serenaded by your voice for a long time and did not even know it. You are Simba on the Lion Guard. And what? When I found that out, when we were researching for this, I was like, do you know how much time I've spent listening to Roblo's voice? kids. It's incredible. So you're like, your range. Holy shit. Nobody plays an elderly lion like I did.

No one does. That's awesome. All right. We'll let you guys go. Thank you very much. If we ever get games back with fans and you come to Yankee Stadium for a game, we'll have to boo the Astros together in Unison or something. I think we were trying to get that set up, right, Matt, with the Astros coming to Yankee Stadium? Damn. I haven't been to the new stadium.

I'm dying to come check it out. It's great. They got nice amenities, but it's not as a as a... We're baseball curious. Yeah, it's as quainty as you'd like it. They messed. That's a whole other subject. It's like when they tore down giant stadium and they built,

it's like, this is what you guys built. Yeah. It's okay. It's all right. I've been saying that about Yankee Stadium. They messed that up, but we won't get into it right now because it makes these guys really upset. Yeah.

It's been a nice. All right. Thank you guys very much. Have a great one. Yep, guys. Thanks, man. All right, there you go. A ton of fun. Matthew and Rob Lowe. Some highlights for me. Those shitty little Astros, who I think was his direct quote. Then saying, I want one of those dicks on the Dodgers.

We need some heart on there. He said he liked the breakdown videos. He said he agreed with them. So that's awesome to hear. Yeah, that was cool. It's fun to see when we asked, you know, we asked them, you know, Maddie and what do you guys disagree on? And they both kind of just went like, oh.

And then we talked about Kenley and dropped their head. Was that what made Rob drop his head? That was a lot of fun. And like you said, before we threw it to that, that is just a conversation with baseball fans. Rob Lowe is a real deal Dodgers fan. Baseball, the emotions of baseball are relatable throughout the sport. And with the Kenley Jansen talk.

I mean, every, every baseball team has felt bad about a relief pitcher at some point in time. So that was fun. And the early, I was texting Dave Roberts Flex wasn't bad either. I like that. Huge flex. I've been thrown numerous pitches. He's done so many first pitches that he has his own routine. Yeah.

What do you think about that routine? That's pretty good. That's theatrics, man. He's hamming it up. That's exactly what you want. Most people are so nervous. They just want to get it over with. Yeah.

Rob. being a star, he's a showman. Oh, I forgot about the Vince Scully stuff. That was... Vin Scully. He said... He also said, dark.

I turned around to ask Vin Scully, meaning he had better seats in Vince Sculli. Oh, wow. Nice catch, Treve. There was subtle flexes throughout. Deservidly so. Yeah, he's earned him. Yeah.

All right. Well, thank you guys very much for tuning in. Tomorrow we will have Trevor's tidbits. And then on Thursday, we will have another interview for you. Fingers crossed, we haven't recorded it yet, but we're, have it locked in. So it's a full week, five episode week here. Go share this with anyone you know that likes baseball and likes Parks and Rec or Roblo. Or lion guard.

Or fish. Matt catches a lot of fish. Yeah. Matt does catch a lot of fish. You ever seen his Instagram? It's a fish to grab up. I'm going to go fishing with them. Tons of fish. We're out.

Thank you guys very much. We'll see you next time. Jake sucks.