Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 247 | The Free Agent Process with Jake Odorizzi

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

Jomboy, Jake, & Plouffe sat down with free agent RHP Jake Odorizzi to talk about his free agent process, his pitch mix evolution, and the 2020 Twins season! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. We've got a special guest, a current free agent, and maybe there's some big news being announced. There isn't. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. Thank you very much for joining us. It is the Wednesday before Thanksgiving dropped it a day early, so you can enjoy your Thanksgiving without us.

Tell your family, we say hello, enjoy the dead turkey. My name's Jimmy. See next to me is Jake. Trevor is in California and producer BBD is in the corner. We just wrapped up an interview with Jake Oterizzy. Former twin, current twin, current free agent, former twin, could be returned twin. We talked to him last spring training when life was normal. Talk to him again.

Jake, how do you like the other Jake? Feels so good having another Jake on the podcast. Glad we got to talk about our free agencies. He's a good dude. I mean, you know, we can tell instantly when we met him in spring training. And he was, you know, glad to come on and have a little baseball rap session with the boys, which we're all about. So it's a good time.

And I think the way to phrase it is Jake Oterizzi, you know, potential stud for your baseball team. You know? Trev? What you got? How did you enjoy our combo with Jake that everyone's about to hear? You know, I love Odo. Just a good dude, like you said, and he's very knowledgeable. I think he brings some insight into, you know, all things,

especially baseball. We touched on baseball because I think he's a pitcher in the big league, so that makes sense for us to do that. But all in all, great time talking to him. I had a few questions I didn't get to, but we'll have to have them on again. Yeah, we asked him about some rumors that are swirling about him. I asked a lot about his pitch mix because I was interested in that.

And a lot of other stuff. I mean, he's awesome, pretty casual conversation. Here we go. Enjoy it. But before that, reminder that this interview is brought to you by the morning show. It's a show that I do every Monday morning. It's just a bunch of random rabbit holes and topics and current events, but not current events. I don't know how to describe it, but it happens every Monday morning.

Talk about American towns, random baseball player of the day, books, movies, music. I think it's like you get info on things you normally wouldn't get info on. And people like that. Here's a weird story. That's kind of what it is. And then they can tell their friend, hey. Listen to this weird tidbit, I know. Yeah, yeah.

That's what it's about. You can watch it on YouTube, Facebook, any podcast. podcast that morning. John Boy, go check it out every Monday. All right, here's the interview. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do baseball. We are joined by Jake Oda Rizzi on his free agency announcement pod, where he's going to. He's about to tell us right now. Jake, thanks for joining us, man. Hey, thanks, Jake. Maybe that's your free agent announcement. Jake, Jake, same, same. I don't know if you're going somewhere. You might be on the market.

The rumors are, another damn year. Rumors are I'm going unsigned again. And I'm just glad you remember the Jake stuff because I think last time we saw you at spring training, I was behind Miguel Sino's thigh. So I don't know if anyone saw me in the locker room there. Because, oh, my God.

I'm still recovering from that. Yeah. The visual there puts you in a weirder light. It always does. Okay. Oh no, how you do it? How's the off-season and normal, well, I guess, more normal life than the season going? Yeah, semi-more normal.

What's going good? Just a lot of family time, getting some fishing done with the kids, some tee ball action, pretty much every sport goes on in the yard, some swimming, just, you know, just family, man. Florida life lets you kind of be outside and enjoy the nature a little bit. So we're all doing good down here and just taking it as a lot. normal. Nice. Trev, how are you doing?

I haven't even said hi to you yet. Yeah, what's up, guys? I mean, look, you get another pretty face on the screen and you forget all about me. I understand how that goes. But I'm doing good. I don't think I made your power rankings. Wow. That's just true.

I'm more of a younger guy. But fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. You got to play to your strengths. That's not mine. But I'm doing good. I'm excited to have Oda Wan, obviously.

ex-teammates, one of the guys that love to talk baseball with. So we're going to deep dive in some cool stuff today. Free agency, everything that goes along with it. So I'm happy, happy to be doing this in the morning, man. Nice. I know you can't. You can talk about whatever you want. We're not going to press you.

I'm interested in the process of free agency. And like when the season ends, when it's officially that date, do you and your agency like get together, have a plan? is, is, what's like the communication process? Will you just hear snippets every day, once a week, updates, or is it how involved or not involved are you in the early stages? So the way it typically goes for us, at least, is we kind of had a meeting before the season's over with,

and then once it's over with, we kind of have a bigger meeting during that world series, like whenever my season's over with, so, yeah, season's still going on. But we start talking about, you know, just what we think, some ideas, some teams we think might be interested, this, that, and the other, just kind of covering all the bases that you can. And then once the World Series is over with, you know, there's that five-day quiet

period where you can't talk to, you know, you can't offer dollars, then you're officially a free agent. But so typically how it goes is, you know, teams call with interest, and that's usually the starting point is interested. You know, it's interest is a nice thing. Yeah, you need interest. You get the ball roll and everything like that. So that's simply how it goes.

You talk about, you know, they talk to my agent and, you know, see where I may or may not fit with them, what they, you know, like about me, this, that, and the other. And then it's usually a little quiet period after that. They circle back. And that's how the whole process starts. So we've gotten, you know, a few phone calls already of some interests and all that stuff, which was great. And typically when those calls happen, he calls me shortly after, fills me in on what's going

on. I keep track of it on my little. notes area and keep track of everything. Not like a whiteboard situation, but I like to keep notes of who's called, how many times, what was the discussion? And I like to be very involved in it.

Like, this is my life. This is important to me. And I want to be as educated as possible. All right. After you sign, just send Trev those notes. Yeah. And he'll tell us the cool stuff and the not cool stuff.

And we won't report any of it. Perfect. That is so you, though. Like, when I think about you as a person in a picture, you taking notes on who's called, how long the conversation went, how it went. Like, that is exactly, I feel like, how you approach pitching and just baseball in general. So, like, when you say that, I'm like, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, I mean, you have to try to be methodical about it.

Like, it's your career. And, like, going back and looking at it, you can tell, like, the vibe of certain teams. You can see where they switch. Like, oh, the last time they talked it was this. And now maybe two or three free agents come off the board, which has kind of already happened this offseason. and then you might see a shift in things. And it's nice to know, like, as a timeline to look back on and see, you know,

who's been in it from the get-go and what their, you know, levels are, that sort of things. And it's always, it's a fluid situation. I mean, you guys know how it goes. Like, free agency is such a roller coaster of one guy goes and then there's a huge tremor effect and it goes, it spreads throughout. And that's how, you know, typically it happens. So I like to be on top of things. I mean, you know how I am.

It's important to me. And I think it should be, as forever. everybody in now this situation. You make it to this point. This could be, depending on your age, you're only chanted a nice chunk of years, dollars, everything that comes with it. So I put my full effort. I love it. I mean, I would save it in like 10 years or whenever, then send it over. And we can do it like chronological order like, okay, this team reached out. Okay, Stroman accepted the qualifying offer. Okay, now this team reached out. Okay, smiley, we've got 11 million. Okay, now this team, And that's probably like a really cool, like, thing that you get to see happen that really only

you and your age can get to see happen, like, every team's reaction to news and stuff. Yeah, the behind-the-scenes stuff is the, you know, the interest. You see stuff on Twitter. It's like, oh, so-and-so, there's, like, there was one about me the other day. And, like, it's weird to see it out there. And, like, it gets so many reactions from all over the place. And some of those stuff is, like, said, interest. It's like, it's not even, it's like they said, okay, here's a contract, get back to it.

It's like, oh, you know, they're interested in my thing. as a like just as a player if you made to this point and you're looked down as a is a good free agent theoretically all 30 teams should have interest like if you're a quality major league player year in and year out you should theoretically be able to make every team better so interest doesn't cost anything you just have you like everybody should be interested to what degree that's where the dollars in the years and all that stuff started coming in and like what makes sense for teams payrolls but you know interest it's funny how it spikes interest like it's interest spikes interest online and it spreads into articles and this, that, and the other, and it gets

talked about. But that's, you know, it's important stuff. So if you're not in a major market or you haven't put in a big market team, a lot of teams or fans may not actually know your story or who you are or anything like that. So it's always, it's always good to be, to have stuff out there. But yeah, it's been going. You mentioned the roller coaster ride. A roller coaster ride can be a lot of fun. Sometimes they can be a bad time. Are you, are you enjoying the ride so far? I mean, does that smiley contract come out and that was a good day? I mean, how have you been kind of dealing with it so far? First of all, I mean, I'm happy for Drew.

Me and Treve play with Drew, good for him. I mean, he's had a very interesting career. He's had some bad luck along the way so to see him finally get a nice little payday is really great for him. You know, it's hard to look at that stuff and take it for what it actually is because each team is so different and what they have. to spend how they've used certain people. There's the analytics that go behind it.

Some teams value, you know, depending on how they rank guys, it's not the, okay, I went on MLB.com and that's every team's rankings of top to bottom. Like, that's how we feel about people. It's each their own. And like, that's the special part about 30 teams and 30 different opinions is one team might be at 11 million for Drew and maybe another team was at five. So, like, there's just a huge discrepancy between what teams think or what teams view when it comes to players.

So I think the most money spent is good for everybody. So the more spent, the more for, you know, the better for everybody else. But, yeah, it's in a time where we've heard a lot about, you know, contracts being maybe really thin with COVID and future spendings, they're off to a pretty good start with, you know, a couple qualifying offer guys, some early contracts or some lefties. So, you know, the starting pitching market, I think, is always a competitive market, no matter what the time is because starting pitching is always, you know, one of the most coveted things in baseball.

Like seven starters. All right. So the latest rumor on you. Uh-oh. Is four teams showing interest. We have the Giants, the Blue Jays, the Mets, and the Twins. Now, without naming a team, is there any, is any one of those teams kind of make you laugh and be like, huh, they are?

I didn't know. No. No, none of them, none of them, you know, a big surprise. I don't have like a set list of teams that I say, I'm only going here or I'm only going there. Like, I'm open to all 30 teams because like, how can you say no to a team that you don't know? Just like a player, how do you say no to a player when you haven't looked into them? You haven't understood them or have a conversation with them. So as a player on the flip side looking at teams, like, why would I say no to any team when I don't know if I liked them or if I don't like them or my philosophies, me with their philosophies or their pitching coaches?

There's so many dynamics that it's like, why would you limit yourself to a short list of teams? Unless you're a guy that's older and has preferences and you've been in the league a long time. You're trying to win a ring your last year, whatever it may be. Like there's different dynamics. But for me and my point, I'm not being selective in limiting my market. I'm open to literally everything and I want to learn about every place before I would make a decision. So, you know, a long answer to a short question right there. just kind of my mindset when it comes to teams and everybody and this, that, and the other,

but, you know, nothing shocking in that report circling back to it. I can add a few teams to that. I don't, I mean, you guys know this. Let the audience know. I'm one of the more respected guys in baseball. A lot of people say that, that I'm one of the most respected guys in baseball. You got laughed at by the beatwriters when you did your original spring training part two thing. they mocked you oh we don't care about the beat riders the beat riders can beat it okay this is this this this does happen to me okay

I I around trade deadline free agency I do get texts asking about guys I played with is how is so and so what's his work ethic what's worse he at mentally da da da da da da I have fielded questions about Odo not specifically those teams either so we can add you know I would say I'd have to look to or three more teams to that list. So Odo is hot in the streets right now, as he should be. You know, we take a look at the numbers. Track record is there for Odo. It's funny to me, though, because I like, I like getting to answer those questions. And I'm honest. So like, I've been asked about guys. I'm like, I hate that guy. I'm not going to say who that was. But it's fun for me when I get a guy like Odo, who I know deserves praise and I'm able to like share that back and

So if you do end up signing on one of these teams, I'll, I mean, will I take a cut? Maybe, will I not? I mean, maybe a nice dinners. Don't you owe him money already? Yeah. So I physically, yeah, I mean, I guess I still kind of do. It's in my PayPal. I told you that.

I just need, I need you to get a paper. There's a lot of money sitting there for you. Fantasy football money for everyone that doesn't know. What was your team? What was your squad out of that you won? Yeah. Well, it's like a year and a half a move. So it's a...

You have Lamar Jackson. Everyone... Yeah, Lamar Jackson last year was... But it was a late draft of Lamar. So like a good foundation. And then that guy that you pick late, that turns out to be the best player in the league for that year. That usually helps win a fantasy league.

The guy Nick Chubb, too. He was pretty solid. Me, wheeling and dealing, that sort of fun stuff. Like, just the typical fantasy fun. Me and Treve used to talk so much crap about... I did. Yeah. J.T. But when me and Trev were sitting on the bench together,

we talked fantasy. shop like he was going out of style. And he claimed he was just the guru of it. And we used to squabble over who was better. It was great. You got the trophy and the money. He doesn't have the money yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This year. Yeah, yeah, this year. You can also go from first to worst. Do you have money from everyone else? Is Trev the only one that's in that's in that's row? No. No, I'm not going to put any, I'm not going to put the league members under the bus. But one person paid me in full.

quickly. He knows who he is. There's some partials. You can say. Eric Hosmer was the best. He paid right away. Got to give Hobbes. Yes. I mean, but I didn't want to put any shade on anybody else. I don't like to play favorites. But yes, Haas took care of it quick. So that means that means Hosmer was the most mad. That's what that means. Like he was like, I don't want to think about this anymore. I'm pissed off and just need. He's also so rich. but you like, sneezed it your way. Found it in the couch.

Found it in the couch. Yeah. Right the glove box. Funny, man. What, um, I don't know, man. How, how is the season? You, you had a rough year with some injuries and stuff. The twins were twinning again.

I mean, twinning again. Jesus. Um, you know, the, the boys are raking. I mean, you, Burrios, my Ada shove this year. How, how were you guys feeling? Was, was the year just looking back? now, is it a bunch of weird? I mean, when you were in it, you're so lost in it that you're like, okay, yeah, we played some baseball and now it's over. What's, like, now that you've taken a breath

from it, I know you're in the free agency, but where, where's your head at on this season? Like, looking back on it now, it's just like, it's like one of those moments, like, we really went through that and this is what came out the other side. Like, it went from being, all right, we're in spring training too. And a port comes out about COVID. And then they're like, oh, yeah, nothing to worry about. We're going to keep spring training going. Twenty four hours later, we're packed up and gone. Like it was, it happens so quick. And thankfully, I just had to drive from Fort Myers to Tampa. So I had an easier route. But we get back and it's like, all right, now we need to negotiate, return to play thing. And that didn't go well and took

months. And we ended up at the same point we were at months ago. And like throughout that entire time, we're throwing, trying to stay ready, trying to stay in shape. Like there was just no time. like how do you prepare for a season where you don't know when the finish line is to get ready for it? So like I think I thought I did a pretty good job of staying. Like I was throwing 60 pitches once a week just trying to stay in it. Get up there. And then like our spring training 2.0 was all right, you got four innings first outing, five innings next time we jumped right into it as I'm sure most teams did. So you face hitters and it's like, all right, well, I haven't seen hitters since spring training.

So you over exert yourself and bada bada bada boom, you got a quick intercostal minor issue. you that set you back a week but a week in that time span is like a month which sucks but uh just random things man like it was i find it funny that just to you know obviously i had some weird luck this year but like i see things that people say it's like oh injury prone i'm like that's just bad reporting if you think i'm injury prone like yes i've had 28 30 plus starts every single year my career like i'm not injury prone i'm covid prone of weirdness happening i got an intercostal I took a screamer from Gordo off the chest that set me back longer than the intercostal. It happens, man.

Like, it's, oh, well, that's, I really can't do anything about it. I can put a glove up and do my best, but miss that. And then come back, feel good, and against the white socks. I'm like, all right, I'm pumped. Like, we get to face the team that's, we're neck and neck with in the division. I'm finally back to feeling good again. And then I get a cut on my fingers, like, awesome. This is just good stuff.

But a lot of that stuff, like I can identify why it happens. Like to cut on the finger, you don't throw enough, you don't deform your calluses. And that's what happens if you're not built up. Sometimes, like, spring training is a time where you get all that out of the way. Like, I use spring training as a tool to prepare for the season. I pitch on backfields. I go to work on stuff that I need to work on. I don't like to be seen in like minor league games because I think anytime you're seen by

professional hitters during spring training scouts, everything, it gets documented. So if I'm trying to work on stuff, I want to work behind the scenes. I want to not worry about counts. I don't want to worry about outs. I want to work on, like this year and spring. I was working on getting depth on my slider. So I'm on the backfields just ripping sliders every day, trying to adjust, trying to become better. And that's the place I like to work.

And then to have that cut short, like I'm here ready for the season. I'm a week behind in the season. So it was just an odd thing. And like I said, it sucked because I like to be as prepared as possible and work on things. I just didn't have that this year. and then the weirdness, the flukiness of line drives and a cut on the finger. Like, what can you do? But when I was out there healthy, my numbers analytically matched up with last year,

which I think is the main thing to take away from that. Like I didn't lose velocity, like the dreaded, all right, you're going in a free and your velocity is down. Like that's a huge red flag. You know, like that's everybody says that. Like mine's the exact same. I've actually gained velocity in the last, you know, year and a half, two years. So I'm on a different direction than typically what you hear going in that.

And I take pride in that. And I think that's who I am. And that's who I'm, I'd be happy to talk to every team and explain just as I'm doing to you guys how I view things and why things happened this past year and how that's not me. And not affecting me. Like, I'm going to be the same guy I was in 19 coming into this next year. Can I go into a little bit of preparation? Because I'm curious about this. I had a buddy, Dylan Cousins.

He was tweeting about how teams should have like a. X minor league pitcher ready to throw live BP throughout the year to hitters. Now, I thought that was a great idea because, you know, there's only so many live A-Bs you can get. And sometimes you need, you know, standing in on the bullpen is not the same as going up there and facing a guy not knowing what he's going to throw and taking a hack at him. Is that the same way for pitchers? Like, would you want to throw to live hitters instead of a bullpen day? Like, would you want to switch that? Or are you, do you think pitchers are just more comfortable working on that without a hitter?

me personally I would work on it without a hitter. Spring training, I think, like when it's supposed to be hitters, I'm good with that. But like during the season, I would rather just throw a normal bullpen working on what I want to work on or working on what I didn't like the past start. Like I would like to work on something that I didn't do as well as I wanted to that last start. So if it was like split command, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to throw fastball split and I'm going to really focus on that. Like my bullpins are short. Like there are 20 pitches, give or take a few less.

a few more depending on the certain time. So I'm not really crushing it when it comes out. I'm focusing on what I need to work on and then getting past that and I'm going to get ready for my start. Like that's how I've approaching. That's how I've adjusted over time. When I was younger, I used to throw like 35, 40 pitches. And I'm like, all right, I want to throw more.

And then like, take the ball out of my hand and like, all right, let's, let's end this thing. So, yeah, me personally, I'd like to just work on what I want to work. I like having hitter stand in, though. Like, I'm just like having a visual of that body in there. And, you know, so I'll have, you know, Wes stand in there and, like, acting like he's a hitter and we'll go from there. The reason I asked that is because, you know, with, like, spring training 2.0, there was a lot of inter-squad games and a lot of live VP this year, more so than probably ever before. And there was a couple guys, like, I think Donaldson came out and said, like, this is something that we should implement more.

It's instant feedback for hitters and for pitchers. and I do think there's going to be a trend headed that way. So I just, I'm curious to get like, you know, a guy that's still in the game's take on that as far as, like, do you think that is, can be helpful to players, like having that direct feedback as far as like a hitter in there being like, hey, dude, like your slider, like,

I kind of saw it out of your hand or maybe that one was really good. Like, do you take that into account a lot? or is it just whatever? So off of like what we did this year, I was doing that on my first outing, whatever, I was talking with the guys and like saying, all right,

what do you see here? What we see you here? And like J.D. was a guy who was, you know, gave me a lot of feedback. And when you have your own hitters who like, you know,

they see you all the time as a, as a fielder, so they kind of know stuff. And then they get in the box and it's a completely different thing. Like it's a nice thing to have that feedback. Absolutely. and it gives you little ticks of all right maybe this is a little bit better than I thought it was or maybe this needs

I thought that was good maybe it needs to be maybe it wasn't as good as I thought it was so the input is always welcomed and that's like when I do in spring training I go back to the backgoids it's usually our hitters so like our minor league hitters I'm facing them so then I can go up there I can talk with them in between my inning and say like hey what do you see here would you recognize the spit on the cutter more than you recognize the spin on the slider did you pick up up a split or which you know which pitches were tough for you to pick up which did you see well that sort of thing so that's what i enjoy doing because that's the feedback you need is the hitter feedback like if you're throwing bullpins you're like oh man that was nasty or oh that pitch suck it's like that could be a swing and a miss any day of the week you just you're more hard on yourself when there's no hitter in there so it's good to get that feedback so you know it's good i think it's the minor league thing like facing your own team like your big league team is kind I'm not a big fan of it just because you let one run away from you

and you pop Nelson Cruz on the wrist and you're hated by like, you know, you're not hated, but you know what I mean? Like, you're the guy that crushed Nelson's wrist and he's out two weeks because of you. Like that's, I think that's always the fear of inter squad games is players hurting their own players

and it's always pitchers doing it. When J.D. was giving you feedback, was there any shit talking there? Because his numbers against you are kind of flashing. throughout history. Yeah, so, well, we've got plenty of history against each other. It's usually one of about three out, the true outcomes.

It's either a home run, a punch out, or a walk. I think I've given up one single to him in my career, which was a shift beater on top of that. So, yeah, we've known each other well. So I was, like, mess with them. I threw him like a 65-mile-hour curveball, just, like, really slow it down and see it. And it's funny because he gave me good feedback on that.

He's like, you throwing that at such a, a slower rate gives you a 30 mile an hour difference between that and a fastball. Like that is as a hitter, that resets everything. And it's hard to hit. It looks so good. You know, you want to keep jumping at it. And that's the one thing is like you should implement that more in your game by, you know, taking 10 miles an hour off your curveball like Grinky does, Darvish.

Like a lot of the guys kind of do it now for the most, not for the most part, but a select few do it. And they have good success. So it's funny, like me messing with that and him reacting like, hey, that was really good. like just me kind of you know screwing around with him and he liked it and that's like that's the stuff you don't get by just you know throwing to a bullpen are we seeing that 2021 are we seeing the ephist from you i don't know maybe maybe not just depends you got to pick the right spots you got to do your thing like i model my my whole pitching model like as i've gotten older and like into successful big league career like i model myself after grinky i'm like grinky is

a type of guy that like body matches well with me stuff kind of similar he had more electric stuff in his prime than than me but like he's the type of guy that is i've always tried to see what he's doing and i can replicate a lot of that stuff he does it an extremely high level but uh yeah i mean i'm always trying to get better i'm always trying to work on yeah i mean do you look at the baseball savants like pitch mix by season for you i was looking at it earlier today no well i haven't it's crazy because at an Sometimes this is wrong. So you correct me, it's wrong.

It looks like that from 13 to 16, you were building up your sinker more and more every year. And then you just completely scratched it. And then it says you're building up your slider to 18. And then in 19, you completely scratch it. Do you scratch pitches a lot? Or are they just changing? No, they're not, they're not scratched.

They're tweaked. Like, the sink here is such a weird term. Like, everyone just categorize a two seam as a, sinker. Like my two seam doesn't like sink. It has more arm side run, but it still has carry to it. So it's it's not a sinker, but it'll get classified as a sinker because of that. Like if I throw a if I throw a soft cutter like I'm trying to shape it in there more, it'll get categorized as a slider or vice versa. A hard slider. It'll be a cutter. So it's it's weird. I think some of it's just they look at maybe just like your release at your hand and then whatever the speed is,

they'll say, okay, that was this, that was that, whatever it may be. But yeah, I don't think I've ever been known. Like when I got traded at Tampa, they explained to me why they traded for me because they liked that I had the rise ball effect. Like before the rise ball effect was a thing pitching up in the zone. I did that in Kansas City and they were like, they gave me a little pushback about it. Like they wanted me to pitch more down in the zone and I was having success doing what I do now.

But back then, so I kind of stood my ground a little bit and said, look, this is what makes me successful. if I run into, you know, getting clobbered every single time out there, then, yeah, I'll try to focus more down on the zone. But there's something to this. Well and behold, I get traded. And then Andrew Friedman explains to me, we want you to do this. We want you to do this more.

So it's like organizational philosophies, again, like how they view to players and all that type of stuff. Like it could have been a career pivoting point for me if I wouldn't have like stood my ground a little bit and said, okay, I'll be a sinker getting down in the zone guy. like I might not be where I am today. So I look back at that point in my career and I think that was a potential crossroads. I'm glad I made the right decision. I wasn't trying to be a dick about it either. I was like, look, I have success for a reason.

Maybe we don't know what it is quite yet, but another team happened to do it and they told me to continue to do it and why I was doing it. And why was the most important thing to me. Dude, you know, let that be a lesson to anybody that's watching future baseball player. You have to stand your ground. Like it's your career. and too many times, especially in the minor leagues, you get coaches, you get caught up on something, wants you to change something. And it might not be in your best interest.

So, like, I mean, I made swing adjustments when I was young because they told me to do it. But in the end, I went back to my original swing that got me drafted into pro ball and I had success with it. Like, I wasted years of development trying something stupid. And I love that you said, like, look, this is what makes me successful. I'm going to keep doing it. Then you get traded to an organization that values that. I love that story and more people need to stand their ground because there is a lot of information out there that like, look, it's not cookie cutter. Whatever works for you, works for you.

And that is, hopefully we get away from that more and more as we cut down the minor league levels. You know, those six, seven levels and having to deal with six, seven different types of coaching staffs telling you different things is not the way to do it. So I'm happy you stood your ground because, yeah, look, here. you are now. Established pitcher in the big league, second time through free agency. It's awesome, man. And you do have the invisible. That's what we used to call it. He's just trying not to pay you, I think.

I think he's just trying to taste you more and more to not give you that fantasy football money. I have it. I will send it on air right now if he gets a freaking payout. I don't want it in there. It's tempting for me to spend. It says over the course of your career, you've thrown all these pitches.

For Seamer. going to go ahead and say that's a yes. Split finger, yes. Slider. Cutter. Would you say it's just a slower slider? Yes. No.

So that was like something I didn't get to really showcase this year. I've added that like the cutter's tider separation. And that's what I worked on all off season, this past off season coming into this season. And obviously it was cut short. But I worked on separating cutter with slides. So I took miles off the slider and added to the cutter. So two distinctly different shapes and something to showcase for next year and something that didn't get to get visualized by a lot of teams

just because of the circumstances this year. But just a little nugget for another year on the contract. Curve. There you go. But the curve's always been very minimal usage, it looks like, but you've always thrown it. Yes, it's always been minimal. At certain games, like,

what was it? And 18, I think again, or 19 against the Astros in Houston, mind you. I threw it like 25 times, which was a ridiculous high. And then I faced them five days later and I threw it two times against them. So it was a back-to-back start. And I knew it was going to be important to do something that I normally don't do. So we did it there, had success, abandoned it at our place, had even more success. That's cool.

That is a granky type thing to do. sinker two seamer two seam yeah yeah so did you because at one point it says in 16 you threw your sinker 30% and your four seamer 31% so were you building up both or is that just they're miscalculated yeah no I think there's there's certain points where I throw it

for effect and like when I have the top of the zone working and I throw a two seamer it's going to run even more into it righty so if it starts at the top middle it's going to take off in on their hands more so So if I've, you know, pounded somebody away, away, away, or stuck four seamers up and away, I'm going to start it at that same point, but it's going to two seam. It's going to run armside in. So they're going to go out for it, but it's going to come in.

You're going to get jammed. You're going to, you know, do something different. So there's points and, you know, certain hitters that it's more valuable to than, you know, sticking with just four seamers. But I don't know about the 30-30 split mix. That's a high number. And then it says... It could be four teams with a run, too.

You never know. It says change up that you scrapped as soon as you got to Tampa. Yeah. So I could never throw a change up. Throughout my entire minor league career. I played around with every grip. And they're like, oh, I just throw like a fastball. I throw it maybe like four miles an hour slower than my fastball.

Like, this is pointless. Like, this sucks. And trying literally everything. And then when I got to Tampa, Alex Cobb taught me to split. And the mindset of a split, is so much different than the mindset of a changeup just for me. Like I throw it with arm speed of a fastball, and it's a movement pitch as opposed to.

Obviously, there's a differential of speed, too, but the movement is really what gets you the effect and the swings and misses, the weak contact. It wasn't like I'm trying to beat you with 12 miles an hour off and a straight pitch. I want something that's diving, you know, all sorts of ways, and I want it to be in a certain speed range between 83 and 87. Did you try pronating the change up more?

because that was my problem. I just didn't proanate enough. I felt like if I pronated it, I was going to throw it in the dugout. So I gave it a whirl a couple of times, but like I couldn't get the old, the Devin Williams, the gyro sprinting change up. All right, I need you to throw like a knuckleball.

We need to add just one, just so it's on your page. And be like, damn, this dude threw every pitch over the course of this career. I'm looking at all the other pitches you haven't thrown. Knuckleball, forkball. Screwball. ball, but I think in the 70s, they just threw really slow two seamers and called them screwballs. Yeah.

Or the super pro-nated changeup. Just like Jake was alluding to, like that screwball all day. Oh, my gosh. Oh, An Ephis. Enfis is on the list. So one for next year. Yeah. Yeah, I got.

This is coming. We talked about that. You can attack another one. But yeah, like, I'm not afraid to experiment with pitches and I'm not afraid to, if it works, keep working on it. I think that's what, you know, guys sometimes are set in their ways. And how do you know if you can get better by trying something new? Do you call your own pitches a lot with such a repertoire and kind of a changing repertoire? Yes and no. I mean, we sit down with our catchers and pretty much have a game plan going into it.

But a lot of it, too, is like your catchers knowing you. And like just in Minnesota, like Castro and Garver were very intelligent guys and really cared about their game prep. operation and we would be on the same page a lot of times like I only shake when I feel strongly about something or if we're getting into a habit of getting into good of rhythm like I know that sounds funny but like if you're constantly just you know you're on the same page we're doing this we're doing this like the hitter just like it's it's a timing for the hitter of all right I got get in the box the pitch is coming within five seconds because we're working quick we're on the same page I like to you know do different things like I'll step off I'll start a row I'll start my motion just plain old

stop sometimes. I'll shake off nonstop. And even if it's the pitch, I want to throw a first pitch, it's good to mess with timing. And that's what the bones of pitching. That's all it is, messing with timing. Like, it really is. Yeah. So shaking off is the dumbest thing, but it'll, it'll mess with a hitter. You're like, what did you just shake three times? Like, what pitch are, what pitch are you thinking of? Like, come on, man, you don't have three pitch or whatever, you know, and it messes with you. It shouldn't, but it does. Yeah. And a lot of guys, you can tell when they're fake shaking too. Like they're they get nervous when they fake shake.

Like the catcher will give you like the shake sign and they'll just be like. Yeah. It's too much. It's too. It's like when you don't want a pitch, it's like. And then when you fake shake, it's like. Yeah. Granky did that to Soto in the World Series last year.

It was a 2-0 pitch and Granky did a, it was a big fake shake and then just threw a cookie 2-0 fast art down the middle and Soto took it. And Soto nodded to him after like, you motherfucker. like, damn it. It was a cool moment and that at that. It was definitely a fake shake.

That might be good top 10 list this off season, the best pitcher head shakes. Like I think Sergio Romo is probably on there because I mean he throws one and a half pitches, so he's probably up there. We did the thing with him when he shook with Miggie to end the World Series. Like listening to him tell that story is just incredible,

dude. He's so animated. and like you want a world series doing something silly like that. Oh, no, I have a little bit of an oddball one that popped into my head. And Trevor always sucks us into Twinsland during the season and we try to get out. But you guys had something pretty wild happened this year. And I, again, I don't know if you were part of it. I mean, you're a veteran president on that team.

Kiroloff gets the call in the wild card game. I mean, do you feel any, like, responsibility as a veteran to give him like a little pat on the back or anything? I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with him because he's, you know, been a big prospect in the organization. But, I mean, do you, did you feel any onus of that? Or were you like, you know, I'll go give him a little taste before the game or anything like that? Just, just curiosity. So I'm going to personally take some credit for him getting there because I think I faced Pureloff more during my downtime of trying to build my pitch count back up because I would go to St. Paul and throw to our taxi squad team.

I forget where there, the alternate site. He was there the whole time. So I got to pitch all my innings, like I would throw. I was facing him every inning. And it was like when I would leave there, I'm like that guy, he's far and above, like, the best approach. He's like, he was a professional hitter down there and like, this guy's big league ready. And I got to see him. And it was good for me because I was like, all right, I'm going to face a guy that should be in the big leagues right now.

And this is a good test for me. So that was a nice thing for me. a lot of teams like top prospect guys so like when i was going down i was facing you know royce lewis curleoff um uh for larnich like all of our you know our guys that are going to be guys in the future they get to see you know big league pitching i can to see really upper level you know minor league major league talent so um yeah so i i feel like i got to get him get a nice introduction of what it's going to be like potentially but so when he came up it was a surprise to all of us because we had no idea like it was just like the roster was

out and he was on and we're like, whoa, like that's, you're a special talent. Like if you're added for your debut in the playoffs. So naturally when he came, you know, he was in the locker room. I walked by smacked him right on the tush and like, hey, man, congratulations. This is well deserved and I'm glad to see you here and you're going to do, you know, you're going to do great. I might have had a couple of explicits mixed in there too, like for him just to just to pump him up a little bit, but yeah, he was pretty special man. And I think he's going to have really nice career. I'm going to throw a bone to my fellow co-host here because I know they're probably thinking

about it or if they're not, they're going to want to know the answer. We've both been a part of the Twins organization now. We both know there's a history against the Yankees in the playoffs specifically. Oh. Like what's the deal? Like I've tried to answer this question. I say every year, like it's a new team, so who cares about the past? but clearly there's something going on.

Not to be a jerk. And you might be going back to the twins. In the playoffs. Don't discrown other teams. No, I'm saying in the regular season is pretty bad too, but specifically in the playoffs, yes, the Yankees. And you might be going back there, so I don't know if you want to get too much into this,

but what are the twins have to do? Like, what's the deal with that? Is it really something, or do you think it's just like almost like a coincidence that's just been the Yankees so much? well like the last two years I guess we were out two years ago when we played them in the playoffs

I feel like we over tried like our offense was trying to like we were the bombless spot we hit we set this record for home runs and I think offensively that's what we tried to do we just tried to just beludge it and then like we're like all right we're going to hit home runs we're going to do this and that and if you don't hit home runs and you have a home run

approach like you don't really get guys on base you don't work counts you don't do this and that so like you're not going to hit nine solo home runs and expect to win a game in the playoffs against a really good team. So I think maybe we just put a little extra pressure on ourselves when it came to it because, I mean, like I said, talked about it's all out there. We haven't won against the, you know, they slash we slash everybody hasn't won

against them in the last 18 playoff game, whatever. It's crazy. It's a ridiculous. But yeah. And it's like, I think if everyone maybe just took a deep breath, like took a step back, like, all right, let's just go do our job. Like, let's go win a scrappy game. Let's go win like a one nothing, two to one game.

Instead of like maybe buying into the persona, we have to do it by, you know, home runs. We have to do it by like flashiness. We have to do this and that. Like just play a simple game and maybe that changes things. But it's weird, man. I don't know. Like I pitched against them in game three did pretty well.

We, you know, you don't score. We don't win. Like that's the long and the short of it. Like it's the same game. as every other game, but it's always so amplified. And I feel like the Yankees are a good postseason team. Like they work at bats really well. They take, they off of close pitches.

They get a big hit when it matters. Like that's the type of team they are. Regardless of how they are in the regular season, I feel like they're always a good playoff team no matter what. So we have a playoff game the last two years. So it's hard for us to, you know, say anything about it. But you got to win a game at some point. And I think it's going to be like one of those,

whenever that time may be, It's either going to be a 20 to nothing game where it's going to be a one-nothing game. Like it's going to be one extreme or the other. The city of Minneapolis will rejoice in the streets. I promise you that. It's been a long, long time coming. Absolutely. I want to ask about when J.D. got thrown out after hitting a home run.

Were you with the team for that game? Yes. What was the vibe? Were you able to be in like the clubhouse with him? Like was he laughing? immediately after. I mean, that was a wild scene. I don't think anyone had ever seen a guy touch home plate

after hitting a big home run and then get ejected immediately. Yeah, I kind of looked away. I didn't really see what was happening. Like, I mean, obviously he wasn't happy with the pitch before that. And then he hits a pump and, like, everyone's kind of getting down for the high five line. So I was like in Chicago, the dugouts are deep. So if you're on the lower level, you can't, like, you can barely see the field.

So then like there's a lot of who. And then Rocco's yelling. And it's like, oh, shit, here we go. What just happened? like it was like wild like he was everybody was yelling and it was just like okay what happened and then I'd go watch a replay and figure out what had happened like okay this is weird I I don't know it was like such a surreal thing it's like okay I think he won though like if you hit a pump like I feel like you just won the war right there we don't need to accentuate it on the way by and I think it was

weird because I don't think he got thrown out for the swipe. It was like he got thrown out because he went back to touch honks. I think he missed it on the swipe. And then that's when the umpire clued in on it was when he came back to it. So if you just swiped and went, I think he'd be cool. He got worried. But like the fact that he went back and then stomped on it, like that's, I think where it got him because he was pretty clean through that point on. But, you know, obviously that was one of those games. I think we ended up coming, you know, we ended up losing that game. And his spot came up in a crucial spot. Like it never fails. But, you know, I only got one toss in my career.

I'm not a seasoned bet at it. I don't really know how to do it. So maybe that's what he thought was the right move at the time. He thought he didn't touch it. So he went back and they slammed. And if he just did the swipe to cover home play with dirt on his way home while, like, grazing it, that would have been pretty clear. Yeah, no kidding, right? I got in trouble by Twins territory because I tweeted out how much I love that.

And people were so mad at me because his spot did come back up during that game. And you guys were right in the thick of it with the white socks. And they're like, this could be the reason that we don't win the Central. And this is not good sports and shit. I'm like, okay, sure. But it was hilarious to watch a guy hit a homer and go put dirt on the plate as he went by. I mean, I've never seen it. We probably, I mean, maybe we'll see it a bunch now because people are clued into it.

But, man, I thought that was funny. J.D. is something else, man. I love. And he's earned the right to be himself. Love talking about twins third baseman that wear 24. My favorite one, Josh Donaldson. First thing. I thought it was Joe Creedy.

Not the Joker. That's Joe Randa. First, I want producer Big Baby David, to note that Trevor brought up the Yankees this episode because he normally gives us for that. And just a couple quick hitters for you, fellow Jake. You mentioned you're in Tampa. you know, do you like commuting far away for spring training, or do you like commuting to like someplace that might be close for spring training?

I mean, I know what you're alluding to. The place you're alluding to is like 15 minutes down the road from me. Let's not assume you know what I'm alluding to, but my follow-up question is, do you mind shaving? Yeah, I mean, if I shave, I lose like five years off my look, so I'll be back to, like, prospect status. And yeah, I mean... Do you have other teams?

Like, if the Yankees were the team, you'd have to shave. but like say you went to the blue jays do you have to put like gritchick like lines in the side of your head do you think you do you think you dress yourself different for other teams I don't think I can pull off lines and the hair like the or like the cat scratch on the eyebrow like I think that's off limits for me I'm pretty I've got you on the east coast so I've so I've ruled out the giants and the four teams that are interested and you just to let you I've got to Blue Jays, Matt's, you know, if you want to come be on the Yanks, I don't think they're going to give a lot of money anywhere because they're... Well, my friend Brian wanted me to ask those questions, and he said don't give up fly balls to write, and it's like, you're good. That's it.

Yeah, I mean, that's safe. Anything in right field is you've got to look a few times and hopefully the wind's blowing in that day or something. Yeah, Brian. I would love to see you on the Chicago White Sox with all of the open jerseys and chains going on in that team. to put you in there and just to kind of let you just swag it out with Luis Robert and Jose Abrae you and Tim Anderson. That would be a sight right there, man.

Just the, this big chain opened up. Do you have a favorite? Just so many, so many options, right? Do you have a favorite color? Ooh. I don't know. I've been partial, and I'm trying to think about my colors that I've been. Everyone's been like a variety of blue.

The Brewers were navy blue. The Royals were obviously royal blue, Tampa, Navy and baby blue. Minnesota, Navy blue. Like, I've been partial shades of blue, but, you know, I guess my last time I was different colors, like high school, like red and black. Like, there's, I can mix it with anything. So I can, I can. MLB does have too many blues.

They're starting to change too many blue and red teams, but like, you know, the, the Kelly Green and the Padre is changing it away from blue. They're starting to mix it up. That's the, that's the stuff we analyze here. Yes. Um, is, is there one team? we can eliminate. Those damn royals for trying to make you throw low, like

give me the one, give me one team we are not going to as a unit. I honestly don't know. The Yomiuri Giants. Yeah, I think I'm probably going to stay. Don't rule that out. Don't rule that out. Look, I want to play your agent here. No, there is no team.

Yeah. I mean, North America would be preferable. We'll start there. Maybe North America's got the leg up on Asia and all that right now. Well, all the options. Honestly, I haven't eliminated any teams. Like we talked earlier, I think it's just dumb to limit your market when you don't know who maybe loves you.

And they've been in the dark this whole time. And then all of a sudden, boom, here they are, Professor Love. And you might be a member of that team. You never know. Beautiful. The Yankees bought Garrett Cole a bottle of wine. Ooh. Would that, would that, what kind of presence can we get?

other teams to send you that would push you over. Also 300 plus mil. That's not the point, Trev. We're trying to get Odo gifts. What would you like teams to send you in the swag bag? What interest do you have? Well, I'm not a wine guy.

Like, wine's never been my thing. I do love a good Bush Light, though, with the best of them. Treb, don't even knock. I know you're so sophisticated. Yeah, he's Cali. Craft beers and your home Brewing.

I mean, whoa, you could have said anything. The Mets are going to send you like a gang of bushlight and your wife's going to be like, no, not going there. Grew up in the St. Louis area, so Bush products were a high, you know, it's high on the list of the likes back from, you know, my roots. But, yeah, I mean, I'm open to anything. I'm a simple guy. You like gifts.

Everyone likes gifts. Pishing rod, okay. Jake's yet to get one. It's the fingers crossed this Christmas. This free age. This free agency has sucked for me. I am getting nothing. All right, man.

We can let you go. Thank you very much for hanging out with us for a bit. And yeah, just let us know when you officially decide. We'll break the news. Yeah. And then that'll be... You would love to break the news. In five years, I need your timeline.

Don't delete your notes at. Yeah, no, I'll keep them right now. When I'm done, whenever it's... I'll send us to Trev and I'll let you... We'll make our first, like, 30 for 30. Yeah. Yes, there we go. Behind the scenes, a free agency.

So interesting. All right, thanks, man. Do do do do do do do. And there you have it. He's going to, I can picture him in Mets and Blue Jays uniform pretty well. That's what I wanted to tell him. Man, coming into the interview because I was wondering, you know, we want to ask all these questions about free agency,

but at the end of the day, it's also this man's living. So you don't want to overstep your boundaries. But I'm excited for Odo, from what we've seen from the early free agency and pitchers. Because, you know, he had a weird year at first, and I was worried about that. But like he said, I mean, the injuries aren't the injuries that would scare you with the pitcher. Like, there's clearly some weird corona stuff that happened to him and was unlucky.

All the analytics stuff are really good to him. And, man, I think this is something we learned the past couple years at winter meetings is, you know, free agencies go a lot better when the Yankees are involved or the Dodgers or the Cubs or the big market teams. And now you throw the Mets into that mix and everybody needs pitching. Like, I think Odo's going to do pretty well. He's, you know, he's pitched.

The Mets who just opened up 20-something mill. I think Odo's going to do pretty well. And, you know, here's a little playing with the balls. But, I mean, that dude, you don't have any questions about him joining your clubhouse or anything. Like, he's just going to go out and twirl you 30 really solid baseball game. So I'm excited for his free agency. I am too.

We talked about it. He's a great guy and I think he's already garnered a ton of interest and he'll continue to do so throughout free agency. And hopefully he promised us this so he better come through. We need to be the one to break. Well, there's another side to it. You know, sometimes the team has their resources and scouts. So we'll see.

Yeah, but the thing is he has to be like, yeah, I'm going to you. So as soon as he's like, yeah, I'm going to go. We'll let them inform the team and then inform us first. Trev, this is, I mean, this is right up your alley. What's the final number? Three for, I don't want to put a cap on it. Three for 50. Looking at Smiley got what 11?

Smiley got at 111. I'd put Jake in the 15 range. And yeah, you're looking at three, four years. It's, it's, and again, I don't want to put a cap on it, and we don't know how this free agency is going to work. It's been a weird last couple of years, but he's worth every penny because not only does he bring what he does on the field, but he makes other people better, too.

Like, he can teach a young guy how to be successful in the big leagues, and you can't overstate how important that is. He's the guy. He's the guy. Dang. I want to ask you one question before we go, Jim. You cooking a bird? No, no.

No. No. Okay. Are we touching on something? I was going to say something, but I don't want people to be like, I already know. I already know what you were going to say. Okay. So you're not cooking a bird. I was curious. I'm not and I don't think my parents, my mom wants to because we're having a smaller gathering. And the rest of my family and myself, I don't eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I eat everything else besides the turkey because it's dry and I don't like it. But that's what I didn't want to say.

Maybe for content purposes. That's all in America. Oh, okay. Well, don't worry about other people. I just want to see, you know, like the hilarious food video that you put out for it. I think I'm in charge of like an appetizer or two. So I'll be cooking something. Maybe I'll make a video on it.

Last question. You put Reese's peanut butter cup in between two Oreo pieces. How was that? It tasted exactly like what it would taste like. It was pretty good. So I've been pissed off. I can't even look at the picture anymore because someone said you should have taken two Oreos and put the split two Oreos and then took the white part on both sides.

So it was Oreo filling Reese's filling Oreo. And I can't even look at the picture without like deep regret that that's not what I did. I thought the exact same thing. So I actually like that tweet still I'm getting action on it. And I just can't look at it. And I fucked it up. But I did have people there. It's the cooking game's funny because like I get I get.

I get homemade Reese's cups sent to me a lot Like I made your recipe And then when I did the crunch rap Supreme I got like 10 that night It was like we made it It's like wild So last night I got one in this dude

He must have been high as well or something He's like I've been he's like I did this last night And it was it was an Oreo on top A Reese's in the middle And then a Ritz Cracker On the bottom And I was like how did that play And then he gave me like a D-D

Salty and sweet. I mean, I get it. Yeah, he gave me an answer. He was like, it kind of like lubricated it a little bit. Like, it was good. It was like, this is a weird world of people sending me foodstab. I love it, baby. It is fun.

I love Twitter. I like getting people's responses. The responses to that. I think I reach where it just like, drop the recipe. He's got me really good. That's good. Got me really good. Send us a picture of your bird.

have on Thanksgiving. Look, I'll be honest with you. I'm doing a whole food. We're doing a whole food's thing. Because, like, we don't want everyone in the kitchen. We're doing it outside. So it comes almost, you have to cook it, but you don't have to prep it.

So where, dear? I wasn't talking food at all when I said send me a picture, your bird. You probably have one. I probably sent one to you before. All right. RV times. RV times.

Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy yourselves. Oh, big reminder. Go take everyone's phone and subscribe. Thanksgiving. Oh, yeah. Have them do it with their hands. Don't be passing phones and stuff.

Just like a game. Everyone, quick game. Oh, my God. Everyone open your phone. Oh, go to your podcast. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's round and third. There he goes.

See ya. And then have everyone in the family subscribes at once. It's a big family event. See you guys. Thanks. I really appreciate it. And Christopher Columbus, you suck. You're East Day.

Bang.