Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 254 | Bob Costas

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

Legendary broadcaster Bob Costas joined Jomboy, Jake, & Plouffe for this year's Jomboy Media Winter Meetings! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball. We hope you're having a fantastic holiday week. We got an interview for you to make it even better. Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball. Thank you very much for tuning in. My name is Jimmy. I got Jake sitting next to me. We're recording this before the holidays because we're enjoying the holidays.

So we have an interview from the Winter Meetings live stream. We've cut it. We've clipped it. It's in its entirety. And it is with the one. and the only Bob Costas. Bob was nice enough to join us. If you watch this, if you're watching on YouTube,

you'll have the full video here. If you watched live, there was a bit of delay, so this will fix that. But how much we smiled, Jake, during this interview was pretty wild. Yeah, we're all, we're grin and air to ear, if you want to check that out on the YouTube. But Bob was unreal, a little behind the scenes.

On our screen, Bob, Bob was upside down. So when we were looking at him, it was like we were... And that happened a couple times in the day, so it wasn't too crazy, but Bob Costas' voice is so recognizable and so, like,

powerful and you tune in that it felt like we were being hypnotized. Like, staring at Bob while he's upside down and hearing his voice go directly into your headphones was bizarre as hell. He couldn't see me on the screen, which was luckily for him.

He didn't have to go through that. But he was awesome, man. I mean, every answer is so well thought. And he, you know, he let his hair down as much as you could hope for Bob Costas. You know, you're not going to get Bob Costas being like, man, the fucking, fucking Padres. What's their deal? Bob Costas isn't going to go there. But, you know, he told some funny stories, and he's the man.

His Vince Scully impression is awesome. Yeah. Did you know that he couldn't see you? Because I don't even know if he knows this. Afterwards, he emailed and said, Hey, please let Jake know I couldn't see him on my screen. So that's why I never addressed him by name because I couldn't see him. I was hoping that Bob Costas is such a superhuman that he saw like,

he doesn't even see me as a human. He sees me as a dog. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was just like, oh, it's Trevor Jake, a dog. This is kind of odd. This is an interesting setup. Yeah, no. I think initially my soul was hurt a little bit, but you play on.

That when you got that email? No, at the start of the interview when he said hi to you guys. Oh, okay, because I didn't notice that. He didn't say hi to you guys? No. I'm sorry. To me. It's okay.

All right. Well, anyway. He's a beautiful man. Here's Bob Konstas. Baseball. Hello. Hey, I'm going to try these earbuds, but I can hear you without. So let's see what happens here if I go to earbuds.

Can you still hear us? Not only that, I can hear you better. Perfect. Let's go. All right, we're bringing you into the main feed here. And now we are joined by the one and only Bob Kossis. Thank you very much for joining us. We've been nervous all day.

You know? Hey, Trevor. Jake. Jake, Trevor, Bob. How are you doing? You're coming from the studios? Well, it's my home studio, Studio 24-7, if you follow the Major League Baseball Network, and I know you guys do. You know, they started out with Studio 42 for Jackie Robinson.

Then they had a Studio 3 and still due for Babe Ruth and Studio 21 for Roberto Clemente. And I said, leaving me out of it, you know, you need a little studio called Studio 24-7 in case news breaks at 3 o'clock in the morning. You got somebody there under non-COVID circumstances. they jump in and tell you whatever happened at 3 o'clock in the morning. They never followed up on that. But when COVID hit and I'm kind of confined to home, I said, look, make that my studio. And they may be this backdrop with Willie Mays 24 and Mickey Mantle 7. So here we are, Studio 24-7.

I love it. Studio 24-7. So that's the workspace every day now as we- Pretty much. Man, that is not as fun as how it used to be. But better than it might have been. Yes. Me and Jake here, when quarantine hit and we needed something to do, entertain ourselves, we went back and we watched a ton of World Series, big moments from like, I think, 1970,

all the way up until today. And one of the things we realized was, wow, Bob Costas has seen a lot of amazing baseball games because you came, I think, earlier than we thought, and then you've been there forever. I mean, your baseball stories must be incredible. What was the first World Series that you worked? 1982, which was really lucky for me because it involved the Cardinals against the Brewers. And most of my adult life, I'd spent in St. Louis. So I knew all the Cardinals.

Whitey Herzog was great to me. Let me in on all the stuff that was going on. I felt really comfortable. Brewer's guys were great, too. But the Cardinals being there and being in Bush Stadium and some of the fans recognizing me and kind of shouting out encouragement, because I was really nervous. When we came on the air for game one in 1982, I'm 30 years old. I look like I'm 15, and I'm thinking most people outside St. Louis really don't have a really good handle on who this kid is, and I better not screw it up.

And, you know, it's like they say, the first hit in a football game or the first ball that's hit to you in a baseball game and you field it cleanly on a routine chance, then the butterflies kind of go away. So after that first segment, I settled in a little bit. But I was working with Dick Enberg, Tom Seaver, Joe Gargiola, and Tony Kuback. And then just before I went on the air for the pregame show, Vin Scully came walking across and into my line of sight because he was doing it on CBS radio. And I said, I'd never met him. I said, Mr. Scully, my name is Bob Costas. And he said, and everybody does their lame Scully imitation, so I'll do mine. Oh, Bob, I know who you are.

you've done very well already. And I'm sure great things are ahead. Oh my gosh, if I'd been hit by a bus, I'd lived a full life at that point. So that helped to settle me down a little bit. So that was the first one, 1982, the Cardinals and Brewers. That was a fantastic Vince.

We had Rob Lowe did a Vin Scully impression. And he was the number one Vin Scully impression on our show. And I think you just knocked you down to two. So that's a big way. You want to hear another Scully story? Yes, always. Okay. Yes.

Vin wins, justifiably, the presidential Medal of Freedom. The last Medal of Freedom ceremony at Barack Obama's White House. And he's nice enough to invite me and my wife, Jill, to be there for the ceremony. And you want to talk about Star Stutter, but I'm going to leave some names out, but Robert De Niro and Robert Redford and Tom Hanks is there, and Kareem and Michael Jordan and Bill and Millenie. the Gates and Ellen DeGeneres and Bruce Springsteen and Vince Gully. Okay. So now we're all in this crowded little gathering before we're going to walk into the East Room and everybody's shoulder to shoulder and everywhere you look you see a bold face name. So in order to tell this story, I have to drop a name. Bob, we were on the edge of our seats. I'm, I love Bob

Costas. His voice is unreal. It's incredible. I'm actually like really smiling. Like this isn't a force thing. Like it's like you close your eyes and you're like oh my god. It's like my entire childhood of watching sports. He's here. Yeah. The guy's here. Well, now we got tech. Are we going reset? It's so perfect for us like. Oh, the chat kind of loves it. Oh, all right, right. We have a re-enter. Okay. Hey, what happened there? We don't know. We were on my back. I believe you're back now. Can you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you. And who cares if it's just a frozen shot of me looking goofy like I usually do? We will fix that. There we go.

Oh, here I am. I'm back. Okay. So as I was saying, Tom Hanks is standing in front of me. You can't tell the story without dropping names. So he can see what's over my shoulder, but I can't. And so we're making small talk. And then he says, hey, what do you suppose this conversation is like? So I look. And over in the corner, apart from everybody else, Vin Scully, deep in conversation with Bruce Springsteen. And Hank says, what do you think this conversation is like? And I said, I'll take a crack at it. You know, Bruce, I loved greetings from Asbury Park,

but you really hit it out of the park with darkness on the edge of town. Fowell, back to the screen, two and two. That's amazing. Those two together. Wow. Two great artists. We thought we were name-dropping it all day with you and Michael K and the Buster and everyone. That's a, you were, were you on Kester early today?

He said that you were, you were swinging by there. Yeah, I went on with Michael K a couple hours ago, yeah. Okay, and you, you started with an introduction story with Vin Scully. He mentioned a story with you. Do you remember meeting Michael K? Did that come up in your guys' conversation today? It didn't. I mean, I've been on with him many times.

What's Michael's version of the story? I'm sure it's the true version. He says, it was Donna. Yeah, he was walking with his girlfriend in time, Donna. Oh, yeah. He was excited to see you. He had no idea that you knew who he was, and you went out of your way to say hi to him.

And Donna introduced yourself, and then years later you met Don, and you said, the last time I saw you was 20 years ago with Michael Kay. Wow. I hope it helped Michael out in some small way. You know, Rickles tells this story, and I'm not the only one he told it to or used to tell it the late Don Rickles.

You know, he was very close with Frank Sinatra, and they were often on the same bill in Vegas. So when Don is a single man, he's got some woman with him who's come to watch his show at the Sands or one of those Vegas clubs. And Sinatra is over at another. table. So Rickles goes over to Sinatra and he says, Frank, you know, when you get a chance, a little bit later on, dessert or whatever, can you come over, say hi to me, say how to the girl?

It will really help me out. Frank says, sure, kid, whatever you want. All right, half an hour later, Sinatra comes by, says, Don, how you doing? Rickles goes, Frank, Frank, Frank, can't you see I'm with people. That's great. I'll use that one. Yeah, that's a good one. Bob, we talked about with Michael about how he had, he had to, he couldn't do a game. I believe he was getting throat surgery or he was recovering.

And it was a double header and you stepped in and he said, he made a joke about how they went and got the best to replace him instead of, you know, the next up and comer. But I remember that day and it was so much fun to have you on our local broadcast. for two games in a row with David Cohn and Paul O'Neill replacing K. How did that come to be? Did they ask you to do it and you just volunteered? Yeah. John Philippelli, who is the president of the Yes Network,

for a long time was one of my producers at NBC. He was in the truck for the famous 1988 World Series and the Kirk Gibson home run. Vin Scully's call, obviously, is what people remember. And it was fantastic in Jack Buck on radio. But when you look back at the way, that moment was directed by Harry Coyle and produced by John Philipelli and Mike Weissman. If they were making a movie, they couldn't have done it any better and they had to cut it in real time.

And Flip had also been the producer when I was hosting the football show. So Flip and I were very close and he asked me if I would do it. And Smoltz and I were doing the Friday night game. So I had already prepared for the Red Sox and the Yankees. So I just turned around and did the double header with Cohn and O'Neill. and it was a lot of fun. And I was able to talk about things you can't talk about on a network broadcast, about how I grew up on Long Island listening to Mel Allen and Red Barber and

rooting for the Mickey Mantle, Whitey Ford, Yogi Berra, Yankees, and, you know, which is a fun thing to do. Michael always talks about how there's no policing Pauley. You know, he talks when he wants to talk. He talks about what he wants to talk about. Did they give you any warning? Like, hey, just let O'Neill run. You know, I kind of sense that from watching it.

You know, living in New York, I'd kind of sense that. You know, you could do a game with just Coney. And I guess you could do a game with just Paul. But Paul is the ideal third guy. Because like you say, he comes in when he wants to. He only swings at the pitches he wants to swing at and usually hits him out of the park. Yep, yep. He's like, a lot of people say, is modern day scooter up in the booth, Rizzuto.

Just kind of the zany color guy, which we love. You've, I wanted to ask, because when we did that rewatch of baseball, our eyes were open to how much the game truly has changed. From the amount of times the ball gets put in play to how many times there's hitting runs and steals and all of that. And I got more respect for the people that clamor for those old days. Because you always kind of think, oh, everyone wants their formative years to be still now. But I got a little more like, man, maybe this.

I was like, Jake, maybe this was better back then. Do you think that we'll ever go back to more action? And where we are now with the three true outcomes will kind of run its course? Well, there's a real incentive to go back to that because the better baseball is as an entertainment product, the better it is for everyone, not just the owners, but the players, because ultimately revenue trickles down, sometimes it's more than a trickle. It's a torrent coming toward them. So this isn't get off my lawn stuff.

Hey, players by and large today are better than they ever were. And if the truly great players, if Hank Aaron, Willie May is a healthy Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, whoever you want to name, if they were playing today, they'd still be great and maybe they'd even be greater because of better training, better rehabilitation techniques, making use of video and all that other kind of stuff. And you see plays now routinely. You see 10 a night, if you're watching the highlight shows, that you almost never saw in the 1960s and 70s, acrobatic athletic plays. game in many ways is better. But baseball is supposed to have, I've said this so often, I know it by heart, baseball is supposed to have a pleasing leisurely pace. It's not supposed to have a lethargic pace. And when it's all or nothing, when it's strikeouts or home runs, you know, the true outcomes, then you're not seeing as many baseball plays. You're not seeing the ball in the gap. Is it a double?

Will he try for a triple? Is the guy scored from first? You're not seeing hit and runs. You know, Whitey Herzog's Cardinals, which is where this conversation started, won three pennants in the 80s. And I don't think any of those three teams ever hit as many as 100 home runs. Whitey used to joke, we try to beat Maris's record, which was then the record. We tried to beat Maris's record every year as a team. But not only were they successful, they were so damn entertaining to watch. So, you know, there's more than one way to present baseball. and I'm thinking that the analytic stuff, which is very important, it's indispensable for building a team and for in-game strategy and for season-long strategy.

Sometimes that works against baseball as an entertainment product. I totally, I'm usually on the, you know, I like progressing and I think the baseball is getting better. But when I start to hear people talk about things like baseball plays, going and watching a center field to run a ball down the gap, when you put these shifts in and you're moving guys and your ultimate goal is to put the guy in the right position so he doesn't have to move that's bad for the viewing process i want to see some outfield and there are some like you alluded to there are some special athletes playing baseball right now i want to see the guys start in center field and have to go in the gap i don't want to see him camped under a ball in right center i want to see him go play and i'm so i'm starting to change my perspective on that even with infielders the same way like let's have some more of the baseball plays rather than trying to trick this system, if you will. Do you want to see, or would you want to see, on a shift, Ozzie Smith on the first base side of second base? Although I guess if they did shift, you put the third baseman there and leave Ozzie to patrol the left side of the infield himself. Would you want to see Ozzie or Omar Bisckel in that situation?

But I'll say something because there's always distinctions to be made. the Rays, despite making the great ones of the World Series and that wonderful game four, they caught some heat because of what happened with Blake Snell in game six. And some of that heat came from me because I think what's true in the macro isn't always true in the micro situation. You have to have a feel for the situation. But in fairness to the Rays, their general analytic strategy has allowed them to succeed. They've taken money ball and married it to modern analytics.

and that's what got them there in the first place. And one of the things they do that's overlooked is the way they value defense. Kevin Kiermeyer is not, despite some moments he had in the postseason, is not as productive as your average outfielder. But he is an incredible centerfielder, and he takes runs away. And they build part of their plan around that kind of defensive excellence. It's fun when that's supposed to be an outlier, in my opinion in baseball. The raise should be the raised.

but when you have the teams, the Yankees or the Dodgers, and I'm not saying they're completely copying what the Raids are trying to do, but there's a lot of teams trying to go that route. Then it becomes a problem for me in the overarching scheme of baseball. You need to have the Raids are fine if they're just one team, but when you have so many, it just takes away from the spirit of the game. And this is from a guy who, like I said, I've been on the progressive side of things in baseball,

but I'm really, I'm starting to change my tune after watching the games this year. Yeah, I think you have to be willing to take each situation kind of case by case. It's good to be forward looking. The O'EFstein proved that. Say whatever you want about Jeff Loonow. He proved that. And others have proven it. It's been proven in Tampa Bay.

It's been proven elsewhere. It's good to be forward looking. Otherwise, you're left hopelessly behind, not just in public perception, but in the one-loss column. But baseball is different from other sports. We can't race to embrace everything about baseball from kind of the most 21st century perspective and leave behind some of what's appealing about it. It matters more when you talk about Wrigley Field or Fenway Park than it does to talk about almost any NFL stadium except maybe Lambo or Soldier Field. What they used to call Kansako Fieldhouse, I don't know what it is now in Indianapolis, but that's built like a fieldhouse. So it had an old time feel to it.

And Indiana has that relationship with basketball. But by and large, it doesn't matter quite as much as it does in baseball. So we have to be aware that part of what's appealing about baseball goes beyond what's on a spreadsheet. Who are some of your guys that you like to watch now, Bob? Because we, you know, Jimmy's naturally endeared to catchers. That's a position he grew up playing. I third baseman in center field when it happens. And you mentioned these how special the athletes are now today with all the training and the diets and, you know, guys don't go out like they used to.

So who are the guys or is there a position that you're more endeared to, whether it's from your childhood or you just like the way that it's played? Well, what immediately springs to mind off this conversation is Hobby Baez and the things he does. I love to watch him. But I also like throwback guys like Verlander and Scherzer, who will go deep into games. I'm just trying to take the ball out of their hands in the sixth inning when they've given up two hits to that point in a big game. And that goes to your point also that the game has to have some texture to it. There are certain guys who may be built, no matter what the era, may be built to go five innings. And that's all they've got.

But not Verlander, not Cole, not Scherzer, not Clayton, Kershaw a few years ago. Now you use Clayton Kershaw differently. If I can rewind a few years to when he was active, I loved Ichero from the start. He was playing a dead ball era style in a bludgeon ball era, obviously steroid era. And here's this guy spraying hits all over the place, slapping balls to the opposite field, playing an incredible right field. Plus he was such an enduring and unusual personality. when he got those 256 hits in 162 games, I think it's 256, that's the record, 256, 258, something like that. Jimmy might know, John Boy might know.

But anyway, it doesn't matter. Close enough. BPD. Anyway, so he broke what was George Sissler's longstanding record from the 1920s in a 154 game season, and Sistler played for the St. Louis Browns. So when the Mariners went to St. Louis to play an interleague game against the Cardinals, each row made a pilgrimage to the cemetery. to visit George Sistler's grave to pay his respects.

Oh. Wow. That's cool. That's a guy who loves the game past president. That is really cool. And when each row hit, he broke 3,000 hits in Japan combined. You know, he did it combined. He didn't celebrate it at the field.

It was what reported it at all. But he went home and popped champagne because in his head, he counted the hits that he got in Japan. So, I mean, he was in on all of that stuff. He knew the records and he knew his place in history, which is really cool. And he had the sense of humor to boot to go with it. Ooh. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the interview I did with him.

I think it was 2003 on HBO. And at that point, he had never done an English language interview of any length. And he understood much more English than he led on and spoke a little. But he used an interpreter. And the interpreter was unbelievable. He was a famous Japanese actor. And so Itro himself is very eloquent and somewhat dramatic. And this guy added additional drama.

So I pose a question about differences between Japanese baseball and American baseball. And then we'd come back through the interpreter. Oh, I love Lou Panella and Brett Boone and all my teammates. But why would you throw a helmet or break a bat? A craftsman must respect his tools. Think about a chef. How could you make a delicious meal without the proper utensils? I'm like, this guy's unbelievable.

So I say to him, you know, people of a certain age would get this. I go, Etro, we know how an American would answer this. But who wins a fight? King Kong or Godzilla? And he goes, oh. Oh, well, King Kong is formidable, you know, but Godzilla breathes fire. And that would be the determining factor because the ape would be consumed in the conflagration. The greatest interview of all time.

It's like a media. Let's interview that guy again right away. Bob, we've been asking everyone this question. It's a prediction. You're our last guy. It's the Roosevelt's question of the day. It's on Trevor Bauer. Where will he sign?

We have four teams have been the answer. The Angels, the Padres, the Mets, and the Dodgers have all been said by someone. One of those teams is leading the pack by a lot. Do you have a prediction for where Bauer will sign? Without having done a deep dive into this, I'm just thinking that Steve Cohen is going all out for everybody. I think he's in the Rio Muto sweepstakes. I think he's in the Linderre sweepstakes, although that's a little different. You've got to trade in that case.

everybody in baseball took a hit in 2020, except Steve Cohen. He didn't lose a dime. And he's got, I guess, $14 billion to play with. So everybody in baseball is rich. But this guy's got additional money. He's a lifelong Met fan. So there's a matter of heart, not just Ed involved. This is the moment for him to strike, not just to land one big prize, but to try and land two or three. So I think that if Bauer is at all interesting, that in being a met, and we know how quirky Bauer is, Cohen's offer is going to be the most appetizing. I think it's awesome that Cohen came into baseball to give us these thought process and these storylines. And we were talking to someone who guessed that, you know, he's going to strike early and fast. But I think he might strike big, but he might be relishing this whole process, just like a Mani Machado did when he finally became a free agent.

Like, bring me to all the tours. I want every team to whine and dine me. Like maybe Cohen is really soaking in like, hey, I'm the owner of a baseball team. I get to talk to this fridge and he's going to talk to everyone before he makes these moves. So I just think it's cool to see an owner come in and have this like excitement about it. And I think it's added to the winter in general. It's a great storyline for baseball. Like, hey, this guy just richest guy in the world bought a baseball team.

Oh, baseball must be lucrative because that's not what people try to say. You know, it's another thing that could happen. Steve Cohen comes in. Sandy Alderson is already there. Sandy's in his 70s now, still very vital. It's not expected that he would run the team long term. In fact, the idea is he's the president and someone else will come in and be the general manager. But what if Theo Epstein really wants to take a breather after driving hard with the Red Sox and the Cubs and being so successful?

If he retires now, he winds up in the Hall of Fame as an executive someday. What if he wants to take a one-year breather? Wouldn't it be worth it to Sandy and to Steve Cohen? Sandy says, I got this. We're good for the next year. And then Theo comes in. That's another scenario. I like that one.

I also like Theo just hunting out the teams with the biggest drought. And I think it's the Indians next. And he can go into the Indians. They're starting a rebuild. They're going to clear some money. And Theo just goes, you know, every 10 years, he just... He's trying to get statues. Beats a drought.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the biggest drought, which brings me, by the way, to one of my pet peeves. The Indians are the biggest drought in baseball. And obviously, if they had been playing anyone other than the Cubs in 2016, they would have been the sentimental favorite. So it's been since 1948. I'm good with that. But when you see these lists, I don't go for these lists that include teams that have been in multiple towns.

The Sacramento Kings and their fans cannot own the Rochester Royals, the Cincinnati Royals, the KC. Omaha Kings. There's nobody in Sacramento, a little kid says, Daddy, would you tell me all about, you know, the Rochester Royals? Tell me all about Oscar Robertson and the Cincinnati Royals. Tell me all about that. And there's no kid in Arizona who says about his football team, while he's rooting for Larry Fitzgerald, would you tell me about Jim Hart and Terry Metcalf and Dan Deerdorf in St. Louis? And better yet, how about Ali Mattson with the Chicago Cardinals in the 1950s? You can't have these multi-city things. The heartache ends when the team leaves.

You're pissed off that the team left. But you actually are rooting for them to lose in most cases after that. And it also helps not only if you're in the same city. Now, the Indians can't do anything about this. You weren't going to stay in that old ballpark instead of going to Jacobs Field or whatever they call it now. But what added to it for both the Red Sox and the Cubs was Fenway and Wrigley. because it happened in the same theater, you know? That really added to it emotionally.

Because you're sitting in the same seats, you know, or your ancestors are for 100 years. I'd never thought about that. That did kind of add to the mystique of that drought. And like it's because you can just picture all of it in that same exact venue. That's kind of, that's a very interesting point. I like, yeah, the only thing lacking about that, and they'll take it anyway they can get it,

is the Red Sox in 04, after getting by the Yankees. They beat the Yankees at Yankee Stadium in game seven. They beat the Cardinals to complete the sweep in St. Louis in game four. And again, the Cubs will take it anyway they can get it. But that happened in Cleveland. Can you imagine if it had happened at Wrigley Field? If you were, you know, setting up a movie, you'd have it ended at Wrigley.

I don't think there would be a seat left in the ballpark. They'd probably have to buy all new ones. Right. It's true. Everyone just grabbing them and run. What, if the MLB was to expand again, which they were talking about, Do you think there's a city? I know Jake is a big fan of Nashville.

I'd like another one in the northwest because the Mariners are kind of on an island over there and the Rockies are on an island around there too to less travel. Is there a region or a city you think baseball would thrive? I've always had a soft spot for Portland for the reasons that you mentioned, Jimmy. They'd have a natural rivalry with the Mariners. They'd belong in the American League West in that case, so it wouldn't help the Rock. in terms of any kind of regional thing. But I lean toward Portland.

I haven't done a study of all the economics and demographics. People have talked about Charlotte, Charlotte, Nashville. They're both not going to happen, one or the other. But if they're looking to go to 32 teams, you know, maybe Nashville or Charlotte, maybe Portland. Portland also does have a baseball history with Bing Russell's independent team. There's a documentary on it that's really, really fascinating. Yeah, she's not. Oh, by the way, I mean, we don't want this to happen.

But if Tampa doesn't get a new stadium and, you know, as good as that team has been, they're at a huge disadvantage with that ballpark. It's not out of the question that they move. So you can add a team in Nashville or Charlotte. Tampa could move to one of those locations. So you could add to and you've got the possibility of Tampa moving. It's fun to see that. You have Montreal getting a team again.

I want that to happen again. If it fails, it's a bit risky. Yeah. If they got the right ballpark, you know, they had that awful Olympic stadium. It was terrible. And somehow they could never finish it. So like five years after the Olympics, they still got a giant crane out behind the centerfield fence and all kinds of concrete and work in progress. There are a lot of people who think that you'd have a natural expose Blue Jays rivalry, natural rivalry with the Red Sox with the Yankees.

it would require realignment, but it would be realignment that made geographic sense. I got two stadium questions for you because when we did the rewatch, the cookie cutter stadiums in the 80s were just awful to look at. And I asked our audience, like, in the time, did everyone know, like, these are ugly?

Or did no one care? And they also really changed the landscape of baseball or hitting it on the ground was great. All the home runs were the same because it was just the same outfit fence. Yeah. When the Renaissance happened, they came back to the Camden Yards and the little, you know, quaint stadiums. Did, were you a fan?

Were you, did you actively like, these are ugly stadiums? Absolutely. My exact quote at some point in the early 80s when I began doing the baseball game of the week with Tony Kubach on NBC, we were in one of those parks, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, somewhere. And I said, you know, they built. colonial style homes with microwave ovens in them, why can't you build a new ballpark that has modern conveniences, but looks like a ballpark, not a generic multi-purpose stadium? And when they did, it wasn't just successful. It was wildly successful. And I believe the White Sox turned down the plans for Camden and built Kamisky and then regretted it once they

saw what they did in Baltimore. And then the other thing I found out, because I never really watched full games at Tiger Stadium, but that place looked like the best environment for a big playoff game. Where does it rank on your all-time stadiums list? Way, way, way up there. You know, the original Yankee Stadium has to be part of it because of all the history and the monuments on the field and the facade. It was like a cathedral. And I don't really remember Ebbets Field. I went to one game there when I was five years old. The last year, the Dodgers played in Brooklyn. my dad took me to a game there. Also took me to one at the polo grounds to see the Giants.

And then I did see the Mets play at the polo grounds in 62 and 63. So because of all the history, they're there. But I would say that Tiger Stadium would be right behind Fenway and Wrigley among the old parks. We're not considering the great ballpark now in San Francisco or Camden Yards and how beautiful the ballpark is in Pittsburgh. But among the old parks that went back before my birth that I broadcast games in, Tiger Stadium was right up there. And the Tigers played in October and had this good teams in the 80s. And I was involved in a lot of those broadcasts. Boy, in October day in that ballpark, and they were still playing postseason games,

more of them, including some World Series games in the daytime. That really had a tremendous feel to it. And something else you might not realize. The broadcast booth was so close to the field there that you could actually, if the crowd was quiet, you could hear an argument going on. If the manager was in the umpire's face, you could hear the argument. Ernie Harwell, as he got up in years, actually had a screen built in front of him in the booth. Because if you had a hard throw and a lot of foul that came straight back off like a Nolan Ryan fastball,

Ernie could have gotten hurt. And I was in the booth one Friday night before a Saturday game. And we mentioned John Filippelli at the beginning of this. Philipelli is standing behind me and Tony Kuback. We're just sitting there in the booth that we're going to work in the next day. and I think Nolan Ryan was pitching and a ball was fouled straight back and Flip tried to catch it and it hit him in the chest and he had to go to the hospital.

Yeah. It was so close that you almost felt like you were in the game and that brings me to everything connects to a story and we got enough time to do it. So I'm doing a game there sometime in the 80s and Reggie Jackson is with the Angels. So he comes up his first time at bat.

He hits one over the roof and into the lumberyard in right field, lumberyard behind the ballpark. Okay. So now he's in the on deck circle. He's going to lead off the next inning or the next time he's going to come up to bat. He's the first guy in the inning.

And I hear a piercing whistle. And I look down and it's Reg and he's looking up at me and he nods, yeah. He goes, and then he pantomimes tying his shoe. And I'm thinking, what is he getting at? And then it dawns on me. He's such a showman and a little bit of vanity too. He says, do you want me to like,

stall like tie my shoe so you can show it again and talk about it. Yeah, this is true. So now you come out of the commercial, Reggie digs into the box, turns, holds his hand up to the umpire, steps out, elaborately begins to retie his shoe. I told Philip Kelly, he was back from the hospital in some degree of discomfort by the next afternoon, flip, we're going to be able to do this. Trust me, stay with me. So I lead into the replay of the whole thing.

We give them the big buildup. Ted Williams did it. Mickey Mantle did it. Kurt Gibson did it once or twice. Look at this. Reggie Jackson, Mr. Bob, blah, blah, blah. You hit the light transformer back in 71 atop the stadium here, and here he hits it over the roof, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now he looks back up at me, kind of tips his cap, nods his head. I give him the okay sign.

He lines a single to center field, gets to first base. He doesn't doff his cap, but he pulls on the bill of it looking up at me in Quebec in the booth. I mean, that's like a showman and in tune with, I mean, it's too much going on. There's four stories and one there and it's Reggie. Yeah, I wouldn't believe it except it's Reggie Jackson. And that makes a lot of sense. I like that story. That's good.

For my generation or any fan younger than us, who's a player that you would say, man, I wish you got to see him play? Like, if you had to choose one guy that you wish every generation just got to watch how he carried himself, how he went about it, and his presence on a baseball field. Who would you choose? After we stop this conversation, I'm probably going to think of a whole bunch of people.

But the most obvious answer, I still think is the best one. Statistics do not do justice to Willie Mays. Willie Mays was so magnificent to watch. You know, if you took somebody from Europe who'd never seen a baseball game, took him or heard of the ballpark, their eyes would immediately go to Willie Mays.

Maybe you could say the same thing about Roberto Clemente, but as great as Clemente was, he wasn't the power hitter that Willie Mays was. And Willie was an incredible showman. He was a great base runner. He could have led the league and stolen bases, but then you could lead the league and stolen bases with 40 before Morrie Will's came along. What he really was was a great base runner, first to third on a single, score from first on a double,

stretch a double into a triple. And he's told me and others this story many times. he wore a hat on purpose that was the wrong size. So it would fly off when he ran around the bases. And when I asked them about it, he said, you have got to entertain people. And Tim McArver told me this story many years ago. He's playing with the Cardinals.

And you know, they have a meeting on Friday, let's say, before a weekend series. You have the meeting before the series. You go over all the hitters and everything else. And Johnny Keane was then the manager of the Cardinals. And he would remind his players, never throw to the plate when Willie Mays is trying to score unless it's the winning run in the ninth or an extra innings

because he will always purposely make it look close he will never be out he will always be safe and the trail runner will pick up the extra base he'll make you throw to the plate he'll make you think you have a chance he'll be safe and the guy who hit the single will wind up on second that's awesome I mean that's something that like doesn't show up in any book anywhere that's really it's the beauty of base running and stuff that doesn't get measured and we're still figuring it out.

We always, as Yankee fans, we end up talking about Brett Gardner because going from first to third, it's an art form. It's part of the art of baseball. And it's, man, good base running like that, Willie. I want to ask you a little bit about it. It's one of the kind of hot-button topics of baseball, and we got a sample of it this year. It's expanded playoffs. And the closer we get to the game, you know, you understand money rules a lot of things in

the world and more playoffs, more money. I get it. We're not a math pod, but that's some basic math right there. Do you think there's a tasteful way to do it? Because I think any baseball purists knows the beauty of 162 is to let it play out. And that's led to some incredible moments, Bucky Dent, things like that through the year. Do you think there is a right way to kind of expand the playoff format a little more? Yeah, you have to keep in mind that difference between baseball, not just an old-timers preference versus a young. guy, but the essential difference between baseball in many respects on other sports, a pennant race is not the same thing as mere playoff qualifying. The regular season means something not just in terms

of achievement, but in terms of drama. If it doesn't matter as much about finishing first, then a September game or even a July series between the Cubs and the Cardinals, the Giants and the Dodgers, the Yankees and the Red Sox is not going to mean as much. You've got to be careful about tinkering with it so much that some of the meaning of the regular season is diminished. Here's my thought. I wish I could claim the idea, but so far as I know, it originated with Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner of the White Souts. Right now you've got five playoff teams per league. What they did, I mean, in a regular non-COVID season, what they did this year was perfectly fine, made perfect sense under the circumstances. But I can't accept that you play 162 games,

or maybe it'll wind up being 154 again if they want to, it's something. span the playoffs and not have them go into November. That would be okay and have some sort of historical coherence. But you're not going to play that many games and then tell me that a division winner winds up essentially in the same place as the fourth wild card. That makes a mockery of the whole regular season. In the last full season in 2019 in the American League, all three division winners won more than a hundred games. So here is Reinsdor's thought, and I think it's a good one. have seven playoff teams per league. You have four wild cards. That may seem like a lot, but stick with us here. All three division winners get a first round by. But here's what the

wild card round is. The number one wild card plays the number four. That's how they're seated on the home field of the wild card with the best record. One game knockout. Two plays three on the home field of two. The survivors immediately play the final game on the home. field of the surviving team that has the better record. They then become the one wildcard team. They move into the postseason playing the division winner with the best record. Now, I would add this, especially if you go to 154 and you want additional postseason revenue, first of all, what's appealing about that first round, everyone always says the television loves elimination games. They're all, they're all elimination games, right? So you get two elimination games at the start and a third

one that's going to send them into the larger tournament. I would then take, because you've now, if you reduce the regular season by eight games, I would make the division series best out of seven. What sense does it make if you're going to play best out of seven LCS and World Series? Why would the division series, which is guaranteed to include the third best division winner and the wild card, why would that be the one most subject to a crapshoot kind of result? Can best of seven be a craft shoot? Yeah, but it's more legitimate. And what I would do is take the wild card survivor, that team plays the number one division winner, and it's two, two, three, whereas the second and third best division winners play a classic two three two. Now, does that guarantee that

the first division winner has an overwhelming advantage? Obviously, it doesn't, because the home team lost every game in the 2019 World Series. But what you've done simultaneously with what Rinesdor has suggested, and I tweaked a little bit, is that you've actually additionally valued the regular season while substantially expanding the playoffs, substantially expanding the number of postseason games and therefore postseason revenue and inventory. It's a win-win for both the traditionalists and the progressives. If you do it that way, I'm good with it. If you do it willy-nilly, I'm not.

You've sold me. You've sold me. That's four extra games. It's four extra games per league. Three extra teams. I mean, and there is some beauty to the opening night elimination game. I think we were all like this is, you know, crazy to play 162, and then you can be eliminated after one game.

But the TV factor is there. Like you tune in when I remember when the Cubs were playing, whoever it was, or the Orioles were playing someone when they didn't use Britain. Like, you just tune in. Yeah, Blue Jays. Like, you know. Blue Jays, right? Yeah, Bluejus.

You just, you tune in right away. So I, and then it's a mini tournament right there. I'd even choose a neutral site for those tournaments and just sell them out for those, all the wildcard teams and don't give them any home games and just get it over quicker. There's no travel involved. So the team's waiting don't have to wait out a full week. Yeah. As we talk about it, you come up with other wrinkles that may make sense.

I mean, there's no, there's no set in stone idea, but the basic premise that the regular season has to be valued and that the post the postseason has to be supplemented but not in a way that robs peter to pay paul if that's the basic understanding to start then we can kick around the ideas to accomplish it yeah i like that a lot you do the all you do the national and american league wild cards and you just call it wildcard city and you play double headers and sell out the crowd and on boost that new they get the yeah that'd be great i like that all right we won't we won't take up any more of your time we very much appreciate you stopping by and chatting with us.

Hey, guys, I enjoyed it. And believe me, I am a big time fan. My son Keith tip me off to it. I'm sure it would have come across my radar screen eventually. But these John Boy videos, the combination of insight and entertainment is fantastic. I mean, I can listen to Bob Mennery just for entertainment, but I'm getting no insight. You've seen his video. You've seen his videos, right?

That stuff is fantastic, but there's no insight. It's just ridiculous, ridiculous, but it's funny. Your stuff is funny and entertaining, but it's deeply insightful. So it's a win-win. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I'm sure you just made my mom and dad's day as well as mine. Thank you.

Have a great night. See you guys. Thank you. Happy virtual holidays. See you as well. Okay. I mean, he's the best. What do you want?

Yeah. Take one of these. Ooh. I mean. Hold on. You ready? I think he was talking about the sequence videos, not your breakdowns, but whatever. Oh, I knew it.

Whatever. Wake and Jake, I think. I'm pretty sure. I think that's what. Was he just on BBD's personal Instagram? Beer's after Bob. Beer's after Bob. Holy smokes.

That voice, like being right in your headphones? It's intense, man. What a voice. That felt like a spell. Baseball. I actually do love that playoff idea. It's perfect. And he just rattled it off.

I was going to, I didn't want to burst Bob's bubble. I had a few things I wanted to say, but out of respect, I didn't. Why? Let's hear it, Trev. Okay.

The only problem I have, I like it, but if that's the case, then I want to have a balanced schedule. Because, you know, the NL Central winner this year is going to suck, but they're going to receive

all the, perks of winning division when the people in the AL East are like dude I'm we're the bet we're the better teams like we should be rewarded not just because you're geographically located in a shit division I think you have to bank on the ebbs and flows of baseball like it's it's not always the best division some years those are those are predominantly small market small markets there's something there Jake's been asking for a balance schedule for a while as well but I still like that idea balance schedule would just make it one one more step better but to have a wild card knockout tournament to start, that's pretty cool.

Yeah. I like it. Oh, snap. That was lit. And there he was. And it was lit, as Coach Ballgame says. Thank you guys very much for tuning in and listening. Share with your friends.

Hey, these idiots I listen to that like baseball, they got Bob Kossis on the show. He does the Olympics. He's amazing. Grandma, you know Bob Kossis, right? Dad, you grew up with Bob Kossis, right? Check this out. And that playoff idea is great. It's phenomenal.

It's so good. We tweaked it a little bit on the live stream. I forget what we did, but. You have to pay attention because there are some moving parts, but it's, I mean, that's, it's like, yeah. Sign me up, man. He's awesome. Yep. All right.

Thank you guys very much. Continue to enjoy yourselves this holiday week. Goodbye. Mo. Moho. This is an H in the middle. Oh, you're crazy. That's like a famous hot tub in our home.