Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 257 | Buster Olney & Ken Rosenthal

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

Jomboy, Jake, & Plouffe got some of the biggest names in baseball reporting for the Jomboy Media Winter Meetings, including Buster Olney (2:15) and Ken Rosenthal! (39:00) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. We got some interviews with baseball's best today, Rosenthal and Only. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. We hope that you guys are having a fantastic time as we roll out some pre-recorded interviews from our live winter meetings live stream. My name's Jimmy. I got Jake here. We got BBD over there.

Plouf's not here because we're just recording intros and outros without them. Sorry, Tre. Sorry, Trev. He is on the interviews today. We got Buster and we got Kenny, two top dogs in the baseball world. Neither of these two had been on the show before. You know, Passon's obviously a top dog as well, but we have a rapport with him. He's been on a bunch.

We met Kenny once before. We said hi. We've exchanged emails. Never had any contact with Buster before. No. That was cool that he said yes and came on. So that's two interviews here. Jake, do you have any fond memories from either of these?

man buster a fought through technical difficulties with us which we always appreciate and then he was awesome i mean probably our most heavy baseball talk and then our most heavy history talk as well uh buster is a fast friend and i think you might be seeing a lot more buster only mixing with us because he uh he's got a speed we like and yeah man kenny are we've we've networked with him a little bit through the years and it was it was almost like we didn't want to talk any of the astro stuff but also it was kind of like a nice moment it was just like yeah it's just like wow

you know everything that's happened in this year you you forget that giant connect the dot almost so and he fought through some technical difficulties too so how about that and they're both tall like us which we like super tall here you go do do do do do do Hey, what's happening, man. I'm good. Sorry about the tactical difficulties. I'm not sure what's happening.

We can actually see you, though. We're just hearing you through the phone. Turn it up on. Turn it up on my phone. All right. My producer's telling me to turn it out. How are you doing? Thank you very much for sticking this out.

Sure. No, I apologize. I wish it would be able to figure it out. But, you know, I'm kind of like a grandpa when it comes to technology. And I'm sure I'm at the root of your problem. It's all good. Don't say that. No.

It's all good. We've had a lot of people fight it before. Jason Kendall fought it for like an hour. He did. I remember that. Let's see. I'm switching audio here. Let's see. Can we hear him now? Can you hear me now? Yes. Oh yeah. That sounds beautiful. Beautiful. All right. How you doing? We were saying you got a Belichick vibe going on with the sweatshirt there. Kind of looks like a workstation.

Yeah, it's in my home. It's my home office. You guys have seen that commercial with John Clayton where, you know, he finishes up and then he pulls his hair out and he yells for his mom for the meatloaf. That's kind of like the setup here. This is my home office. I got backdrop there. I got a camera over that way. And this is a place that I'm locked in now. That's work these days, huh?

Man, it's crazy. So, Buster, we've gone to a couple winter meetings now. We're still trying to establish ourselves. From what we've seen. And, you know, we thought about asking people, you know, what do you miss? the most and I think a lot of people are okay. They're like, okay, I get to spend, you know, five more days with my family or whatever. You are the king of winter meetings. You can't, we, our first one was the Vegas one. You couldn't walk five steps without getting a picture.

I mean, are you, are you missing the spirit that is winter meetings? I am to talk to people in person. You know, that started during the summertime, doing Sunday night baseball. You know, I had those experiences of, you know, I had those experiences of, the first game that was played, the Nationals and the Yankees down in Washington, to be in the ballpark and not be able to talk to the players was excruciating. And then I had that, you know, two or three other times, a couple games at Yankee Stadium, one in Philadelphia. I hated that.

You know, and that to me is a lot of the fun of just having sort of those BS sessions. You know, the first winter meetings I ever went to. I was 19 years old. They were down in Nashville as in New Englander. I grew up in Vermont. And, of course, Peter Gamma's is my great hero. And I got to stand on the fringe of a group and listen to them talk. So, yeah, you can't replicate in-person conversations no matter how many text messages sent out.

We actually, we saw you. And, you know, this was two years ago. We really had no business having a media pass or being back there. And we were walking around all skittish. And Jake, I think you took one picture. And it was with Bustick. I'll show you sometime. We were going to put it on screen for you.

Our audience can see it now. But yeah, I mean, we watched you walk from that Vegas lobby, and you could not take five steps, and you gave everyone as much time as they wanted to chat. It was pretty cool to see because, you know, winter meetings, I always told people like, should I go as a fan? I said, yes, because if you want to talk baseball, everyone who wants to talk baseball is there.

It's kind of weird you get an elevator, and you don't know who is in the elevator with you, but you overhear their conversation, and you're like, ah, they're talking about it. possible indoor trade or ah they're talking about where DJ's going to go and the whole vibe is just it's just like it's a baseball lover's convention so we're missing it like crazy and we've only done two when when you think of winter meetings is there a big moment a big trade a big scoop you got or some event that comes to mind first yeah i think the craziest one was that winter when

albert pool holes was a free agent and you know i've boy been a been a lot of seen a lot of heard a lot of different things. But I was doing a sports center hit. I want to say it was a 9 a.m. sports center. And it's kind of a sleepy morning, and you know what you're going to talk about. And a source who is involved in that, and I'm not going to give his name.

But he texted about eight of us all at once and said, here's the deal. There's going to be an agreement between Albert Pujol and the Angels, and it's for $240 million, plus the person. contract to get that information 60 seconds before you're supposed to start talking on television you talk about a rush uh you know to have that experience that that was pretty cool do you just wink at your producer and say watch this well i mean that was one where you got to tell the you know the people back the producers back in bristol because they're talking and and then you say i got something

i got something you got to come to me as soon as you can come to me as soon as you can come to me as you can come to as soon as you can get the Albert Pooleholds graphic up, that sort of thing. You know, while you're also trying to communicate with some of the other sources, it was, I mean, that's why you do this job, is that fun adrenaline rush of, you know, coming out with news. Yeah, we were there last year for the Cole News and as diehard Yankee fans, and it was funny to see Booney and then Cashman come in the lobby for the first time, and it was like a big party.

We definitely left whatever sense of professionalism. supposed to have as invited guests and became little fanboys running the lobby for good or bad, but that's kind of the only moment we have. Do you think there's going to be a crazy something in the next couple days here? Is there any momentum before Christmas that we get one of these big names or one of the bats even off the board? Well, you know what? I mean, the one thing that keep in mind is that they're just so few teams being aggressive. You know, just talking with agents, you're like, okay, what teams are actually out there trying to be aggressive, trying to add, and you hear the same name, the Mets, the Blue Jays, and to a lesser degree, the White Sox.

And if any point, Steve Cohen's like the guy sitting at the poker table with his neighbors, who's got the pile of chips, is 20 size bigger than anybody else. And if at some point, he steps up and says, you know what, I want to take George Springer off the table. I want to take, you know, J.T. Real Mutual off the table. I want to take Bauer off the table. He's got the ability to do that. But the thing is, and I've had agents say this to me a lot, that the key to this whole slow winter so far is a vaccine,

which is crazy, but that's exactly what's going on. You know, the faster the teams get information about the vaccine and about how quickly it can be distributed and whether or not they're going to be fans in the stands, that's going to determine, to some degree, how much money they spend. do I think something could happen? Absolutely. I think Lindor is going to be traded. I think he's going to wind up with either the Mets, the Blue Jays. I would bet at this point the Blue Jays. I think Springer is going to wind up with a Mets. I think there are going to be some other deals that come down. Am I confident that they're going to happen quickly? No, because I don't think there's anything driving it. Every time we have this labor situations with MLB and the player association, the only thing that really seems to move at our deadline so we don't really have a deadline on the current situation. I kind of wanted to go in on like,

Can you hear Trevor first? Can you hear me about here? Yeah, I hear you. What were you saying? What's up? I wanted to go in and ask you your opinion on like how like your whole kind of profession has changed with the, you know,

with Twitter going on, with social media going on. And just like the quickness of everything, have you enjoyed that transition or has it become like a difficult thing to to keep up on? Because you have, you have people kind of trying to break news left and right where you know you have your relationships that are deeply embedded in and you have your sources that you've been going to for years

has that been able to transition and have you found it like to help you or do you would you rather go back to the old days um i mean i think they're plus on both sides look i i i is you know someone grew up in a town of four hundred people in central vermont you know i had one radio station wdv that gave the sports scores at seven 15 in the morning We got the Sunday papers, the Globe and the New York Times. Besides that, I didn't have any information. So the idea that, you know, a baseball fan who's 11 or 12 years old could find out information as quickly as you can through Twitter, that's really cool. That all said, there's no question.

A lot more mistakes get made. There are, you know, a lot of, you know, if you work for a company that has a protocol about how you're supposed to put this information. out because like for example um you know i i need to run it past the news desk at ESPN i can't just fire it and i think that's right i think there should be layers of editors and layers of accountability before you just absolutely fire stuff out but that's if they shoot first ask questions later business now because it's social media and that's not going to change now we we had jeff passing on a couple minutes ago and and he was kind of rude to me would you say he's generally a jerk Is that how you would label him?

No. Now, what was the word you just used? You said he is a... A jerk. A J-E-R-K. No. No, he's not a jerk. Come on.

No, we've enjoyed Jeff. He's been way too nice. Yeah, he's got a great sense of humor. Yeah. How's that been to kind of the ESPN kind of family? Because, I mean, kind of when he came over, you know, he was a Yahoo guy for years. Do you think, you know, you know, You guys still have a nice little baseball team, and I remember when baseball tonight kind of came down, it was like ESPN's getting away from it.

Is baseball coming back via ESPN? Because I like that. Yeah, I think generally, you know, generally speaking, and Jeff does a great job, you know, breaking stories and going on SportsCenter. I think that, you know, they're very open. Look, I get calls all the time from SportsCenter people when they're. actually new. It is unfortunate that we're in a situation like we're in now where you wish baseball could dominate the winter because there are a lot of interesting things going on. But because of the relationship between the players association of Major League Baseball, because the CPA set to expire a year from now and all this stuff intertwined with COVID and shutdown, it's frustrating. You know, and I am concerned. You guys, I'm sure, saw the comments by Chris I,

The longtime catcher to the Boston Globe on Sunday about being concerned about the product. There are a lot of people in baseball who feel that way. That the product needs to be adjusted. So it's not just like an eight-year-old pitch, the first time kids get to pitch at eight years old and you get all strikeouts and all walk. I do think that that's something that's got to change to go forward. I wasn't fully on that, of the same opinion that, you know, the three true outcomes is boring or worse until Jake and I, to kill time in quarantine, watched every, like the biggest moments and the biggest innings from every World Series from 1974 until today. So we watched a lot of baseball in the 70s, the 80s, early 90s.

and I fully get it. Now, I think a lot of the people that are my age or younger, if they did that, they would have the same realization. Like, in the 80s, it was a faster game. Like, there was action on almost every three pitches, be it a steal or a bunt or a hit and run. And it was more exciting. Just you inched forward in your seat more like a per bat than you do today.

But so I think, I think it's, It's going to be hard for people to realize that until they really go watch. But, yeah, the game really has changed, and it stood out like a sore thumb when we did that rewatch of all those old world series. I'm sure. And I'm sure that probably one of the games that you guys watch was the Yankees and the Pirates in Game 7, 1960, 10 to 9. Maserowski wins with a walkoff. 10 to 9, there wasn't a single strikeout in that game. Okay?

Think about that. And look, we're way past that. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The sport's not going back to that. My own hope is going forward. I do think that the sport needs to reestablish the preeminence in the starting pitchers. You know, the parade of relievers coming out now, I just don't. I have the perfect focus group of one in my 16-year-old son, who is a crazy sports fan.

And he's a weird sports fan, too. Like we live in New York. He's lived in New York his whole life. He likes the Titans. He likes the Charlotte Hornets. He likes the Atlanta Braves. Go figure. But, you know, I ask him all the time.

You want to sit and watch the game with me. You know, the Braves are on. Now, it's too slow. I think that they need to get back to a point when we're excited about, you know, seeing, you know, a Pedro Martinez against a Roger Clemens, the Madison Baumgartner against Clayton Pershaw. Baseball needs to figure out how to make the starting pitchers important again because I don't think you can sell to casual baseball fans

day after day after day of games with 16 relievers. I agree. And I mean, for us, like, we're not who baseball is trying to attract or who they should be, like, they have us. We're hooked in. And you got to go get new fans. And the way the race do it, and when you go to these playoff games, and we're doing the pregame show and we're like, the strategy for this team is going to be that a batter doesn't see the same pitcher twice. And you're like, ugh, that's going to be a boring watch. That's kind of like where my mind was this postseason. So I agree with that as well. Yeah, we had one of our playoff games that we had, the first. playoff game that I did, because the ESPN had the, you know, the, what was they called it, the wildcard round. We had the Reds and the Braves.

And I talked to Freddie Freeman about this recently. I'm like, what was that like to play in the game? 37 strikeouts. It was a record. And it was like inning after inning of, you know, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout. And, you know, I mean, it's fine if you said records, but after a while it's boring. Look, you know, when I was 11 years old, game six, 1975 World Series. He's Red Sox and Reds, and that game was exciting, right?

A few years ago, two years ago, we had Red Sox and Dodgers 18 inning. The fact is, besides, you know, Nathan Avaldi putting his guts out there trying to win, the extra earnings that game were really boring. There wasn't anything really happening. And that's got to change. Yeah, that's how I felt that Reds, that Reds game was pretty brutal towards the end. You're like, what is this? Yeah.

Well, we are asking everyone this. It's our Roosevelt's question of the day. We're predicting Trevor Bauer. So if you have an official prediction on where Trevor Bauer is going to land right now, we have one Padre, one Padres, two Mets, and we're at five Angels on the scoreboard predicting where Trevor Bauer will sign. I would go Angels. I don't think the Padres, you know, they've already got some big contracts that they're trying to fit in. They've got to sign for Nanotessie, Jr.

The Mets makes some sense, but I think that they might be the team that goes for the next tier down, for someone like Daco to Rizzy. The Angels now are in a position with a new general manager. Permanagian's gone in there. He's making some aggressive moves. They're actually trying to win. Trevor being from that area, I think that that in the end makes sense. All right, you're with me.

The Angels group is getting strong. We've got six people now. What about Real Mudo? Do you think the McCann signing or potential likelihood of going to the Mets hurts Real Mudo? Or does it help him or does it not affect him? Well, it's interesting because as a general manager said to me, it's pretty rare that a player is by far the preeminent player at his position. Like, there's no doubt, right?

If you have 30 general managers, all 30 go, oh, yeah, it's JT. But because of the weird situation going on right now, with very few teams spending, you wonder what's going to happen. I kind of wonder if he doesn't, let's just, you know, because the Phillies we know have indicated that have a lot of money spent, but if you're bringing to Dave Dombrowski to run your baseball ops, then you better back it up with some cash. Because it doesn't seem like a lot of teams are necessarily bidding on JC,

I think the Phillies still would be the safer pick. But if it's not them, I think he's going to wind up with the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays are, you know, they're going to spend money on somebody during this wintertime. Okay. The Blue Jays keep coming up everywhere. Yeah, what's, I know they've got the young core, and, you know, we've heard, you know, Springer. Real Mudo, that's a really interesting one because they've got all those infielders and they, you know, even Cori-L in her hands as, wow, that's a, you're a pair of Yankee fans and a former Minnesota twins. You have the two Yankee fans a little nervous right now, because we don't, we've got enough problems.

with the race, we don't really want to look at the Jays in that light. I'm going to scare you a little bit more. Here we go. I think they're going to wind up with Lindor. Because of the history of the leadership there, you know, Ross Atkins, the general manager, Mark Shapiro, you know, the club president, who were with the Indians when they drafted Lindor eighth overall in 2011. A lot of times when players are available, the teams don't really know the place.

They know this guy. and he's going to be traded. I think he's going to be traded either the Mets or the Blue Jays. And I would not be surprised if on opening day, when it comes next year, that you're going to see Lindor playing with the Blue Jays. I'm less confident about J.T. landing there. But I think of all the guys, big names are available, that's the guy I think who's most likely to wind up in Toronto.

And they're going to wind up with somebody. Man, I guess they're big players. We have heard that the Blue Jays are aggressively going after George Springer, maybe even more so that's being talked about. So pairing Lindorr and George Springer together would be some sort of dynamic, you know, top of your line up there. I would love to see that. Talk about it. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Look, you know, they're there, if you're at a team this winter and you have some money to spend, you are going to do damage, right?

Because it's like a soft real estate market and where the prices have collapsed to a large degree and there's not a lot of competition. So the Blue Jays being in this market in this place with some really good players available, guys, they're going to do damage. And I can't predict with 100% accuracy how that's going to manifest,

but they're going to wind up with really good players to add to what already is a pretty good young court. I liked what you said about Dombrowski going to the Phillies and that means that they should be spending some money because that's what Dombrowski does. For the Phillies, if they bring back Real Mudo, and then they just go find the four relievers that they can get at the best price,

like, is that a good offseason for the Phillies? They're starting pitching's good. Their lineup's pretty good. They, you know, they bring back Roomudo because there's this crop of relievers out there that seem pretty cheap. And if you're a team that needs to stock up on bullpen, like you could, the Phillies could revamp their top four

out of the pen pretty easy. easily if they have money to spend. Yeah, I agree with you. The way the reliever market is, it's really kind of crazy. I think Peter Gammon mentioned that there were 110 right-handed relievers. I mean, think about that. So if you happen to hit the right guys, the right combination of guys, like it's having a slot machine, right?

Yeah, you pull the lever and you get the right guys. Your bullpen can really turn around and improve dramatically. They could. That said, I will say that it's. feels like that the Phillies have been in a division that's generally speaking getting better because Cicone goes in, the situation changes, they're going to wind up with good players, the Braves are in a commanding spot, the Marlins are actually getting better. You know, the nationals are older, but they're in the last full season they were champions.

It does feel like that the Phillies have had a lot of dysfunction this offseason. And, you know, that story that I wrote about last week where, you know, Zach Wheeler, I'm hearing from other teams, multiple other teams. Yeah, the Phillies have Zach Wheeler. out there in case you want to make an offer. And then John Middleton calls me, that's not accurate. You know, I wouldn't trade, if they offered me, Babe Ruth, I wouldn't trade for him. And then I had other teams, well, no, that is accurate.

It's 100% and then Ken Roosevelt wrote it the next day as well. The Phillies, I think, in a really precarious spot. So for Dave to go in there, he's going to have to make, you know, pick the right moves, I think right from the get-go to keep up with the rest of the division. And Babe Ruth is watched anyway. My thought process on the Phillies is if you go out and spend that much money and give that many years to Bryce Harper, you can't just pull the eject button the next year. You thought you were in a window. Like if you give a guy that contract, you think I got four or five years to go win a championship.

You can't just in year three say, nope, I'm not spending any money. I'm not bringing in anybody any help. I think they have to. They're in a spot now where like they either got to go or they have to compose. demolish everything and even try to trade Bryce, which would be probably a pretty tough test now. But I think they got to go. I think they, if they go, if I was them, I would not go after Real Muto. I think it's a little too much money to be spending when you have bigger areas of need.

But it's never a bad idea to bring a guy like that back. I just think there is more pressing issues with the Phillies because they should be, they should be in the top part of the National League with their payroll, the city they're in, and the players they already have. They already have a pretty good base. It's supplementing that base in the right areas that they need to do. Yeah, Sam Miller, I thought, wrote a great story about this last week where he basically went through what the Phillies did after that, you know,

great run that they had through 2011. They tanked for four or five years. They didn't spend any money. They took their payroll down to the bottom. And they didn't get the payoff that the Cubs did or the Houston National. did. That's just the fact. Like we, you know, Aaron Nola, they wind up getting an ace pitcher out of that group. But besides that, they didn't get the supporting cast.

And so an unfortunate, you know, spot where Dave is now, I think if he takes over, he doesn't have like this unbelievable cast of, you know, prospects down in the farm system. No. They have to prop up. They have to prop up the Major League team with free agents signing. Now, you know, I do think that, you know, I do think that, you know, It is a winner in which you can do some damage if you spend a little bit of money. And it will be interesting to see if, you know, in fact, they pass on JT and then decide,

look, we have to, you know, sign three, four, five guys, suppose, just giving a lot of money to one player at a premium position. Buster, I want to ask about a team we probably don't bring up enough, and it's because me and Jimmy are Yankee fans. The Boston Red Sox, because you mentioned the Blue Jays, they got some money to spend and they've got a young core. Tampa has become this wagon of sorts. The Yankees have a nice young core. Baltimore's rebuilding and doing their thing. We'll see them in a couple years. What's going on in Boston?

Because they got under the cap this year. The Twitter account tweeted that out in Boston fans, and everyone got pretty mad about it, which was rightfully so. But now, I mean, and, you know, something we say on here, and Trevor loves Heim Bloom, give Heim some time. Boston's out of town that gives out time very well. So are they big players in this market? Because I'm not hearing too much about the SOX.

No. They, and I haven't either. Like, I'm not hearing a lot. I do think it's another year of restructuring, rebuilding, of, you know, putting the infrastructures in place that when Haim was with the raise, they did so well. Now, my question, and I agree with you. Like, when there was any delay in them hiring Alex Korah, I thought they were insane. And there was apparently, you know, touch and go whether or not, you know, they were going to hire Stan Full to be the manager. And I just thought, you know, for Hym, if Hime was the one holding that up, my thought was he does not know the market.

Like, because in Boston, you have a grace period that's small. And if after as bad as they were in 2020 with the lack of pitching that they had, if they hired, hadn't hired Alex Kora, the new manager coming in and they had another bad year, that guy would have been destroyed. Hime would have been destroyed because that's the nature of that market. So I think bringing Alex back bought Hime a couple of years and, you know, their team that has a lot of resources, a lot of money, but I still think they're in the process of backfilling

and trying to, you know, to build in their infrastructure as opposed to going all in and trying to win next year. I think it's pretty clear, you know, Chris Dale coming back from Tommy John that it's, you know, next year will be another. the year when the Red Sox are trying to put things back together. That was exactly Trev's thought process on the on the core hiring. He was like, Corr is going to be the guy now because that gives a little grace with the fans. And then they'll be bad for two years.

The fans will be ready to get rid of core. Then you bring Sam Folden. That's exactly what you said, Trev. That's off to you and Buster. Same page. I just think that, you know, yeah, it's an unforgiving market there in Boston. Maybe even more so than like, you know, the Philly in New York. It's on par with those.

So yeah, for him to go there, bring his own guy in, knowing where the team is at and kind of the expectations that he has for the team, I think they're going to lose for a couple of years here. I mean, you already have the raise and the Yankees. Now the Blue Jays come in. It's going to be difficult to figure that whole thing out. So as much as Alex Cora is like celebrating being back in the dugout, for him, I just think they love them because he won a World Series title.

And when you bring a franchise and you're going to win 80 games maybe, They're not going to love you the same. So this is going to be tough for Alex and maybe good for Sam Fold in a couple of years. Well, I'd say this. You know, Alex, if they go through next summer and Alex says, you know what, we're going through the process in so many words. And he's not going to say. He's going to say it smarter that I'm going to say it now.

But if he tells the fans on a daily basis, look, we're going through the process to see the pitching coming. You know, Chris Dale's getting stronger. Avaldi, I think, actually, was better than people realized last year. And they get 52 strikeouts and seven walks. for Alex to say that, that's going to have some credibility. And there's nothing wrong with Sam. Sam's the, you know, I'm sure he's going to manage the big leagues. But in terms of the Boston market, Alex has some credibility.

And, you know, we keep on talking about the fans. How about the owners there, right? At one point, they lost patience with Theo Epstein. After, you know, he won a World Series 2004, 2007, he leaves under, you know, bad terms. Ben Charington comes in. And when the team had a tough year, they run him out. They bring Dave Dobrowski in. Dave Debrowski does exactly what they tell him to do.

Go spend some resources, win a World Series. They do that, and then he gets run out. So I think that it's not only about the fan base, it's about for Heim Bloom. You know, you better, they got to start showing some stuff, I think, by the end of 2021, 2021, because the ownership there is demonstrated, it's pretty fickle. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of, yeah, Cora doesn't care, though. He's got his back in baseball.

He's the fan base loves him So he'll ride that wave And then he'll take him to the next wave It was kind of the best move for him Probably at least only move at this point We were we were talking about how good the NL East is And I had a question for you that I thought of If you took the NL East and the NL Central

All 10 teams and ranked them one through 10 How many NL Central teams land in the top five? Wow Boy let's see here I'm definitely ranking the Braves Number one among all the teams I am, you know, definitely, and assuming the Mets make moves, I think they're going to wind up being the second best team. You're probably going down to four, five, six before you start thinking about the Cardinals,

who absolutely, you know, given the fact the Cubs are going through a restructuring, if the Cardinals don't win the National League Central in 2021, there's something wrong. You know, with the Cubs blowing up their core, with the brewers, though, he's managing payroll because they're a small market team, basically, with the pirates going through what they're going through, the Reds are cutting payroll. The Cardinals, they got to win that division.

You got Jack Clarity is your ace. You have probably the most loyal fan base. I don't know if you guys have had a chance to go to a game at St. Louis. Every game, that place is packed with all those folks wearing red shirts. The Cardinals should win that division next year. But, you know, that said, right now I would not have to, put them close to Braves. I think a really great seat.

Yeah, the Braves kind of knocked the window. You know, it was supposed to open up a crack this year or halfway, and they blew it open, and it should have been in the World Series if they could just finish the damn thing. Trevor, your guy, Jack Flair, he gets in love. Yeah, that's Trevor's good. Deservedly so. I mean, he's earned it.

He's, you know, this year wasn't great for him, but I just, I put very little stock into what happened this year. Especially the Cardinals. What's that? Especially with the Cardinals. I mean, they got the most bizarre, the bizarre season. You know, he spent 10 days in a hotel room

throwing against the mattress. Like, that's not what you want from your ace pitcher. Like these guys, especially a guy like Jack, who I know, he's a creature of habit. He loves his routine and it got thrown out the window this year. So I'd expect if we have any semblance of normalcy next year, the Jack will be right back, you know, top 10 pitchers in the end now. Just like, I mean, that's who he is.

And I expect that to be four, four, five, six years in a row. Oh, I agree with that. Look, he, you know, not many times, it's funny, because the first time I saw him and talked to him, you know, you don't realize how big he is until you're standing next to him. And you're like, this guy is huge. And then you see him move, and there are not many times when you have a perfect

comp between a modern day player and a player playing the past, and that is to Bob Gibson, who, you know, you guys know, he played with the Globetrotters. He was this phenomenal athlete. He was a great guy. great sprinter. He's a great baseball. He could, he's a great basketball. He could do everything. And that, Jack Flaherty is that type of athlete, where you see the smoothness of his delivery, how he moves, and you're like, this guy is going to be a monster for years to come. And I'm sure you know the backstory is that he was a third baseman in high school and they had to

kind of like, to like cajole him to switch over to pitcher. He's a monster. Trev, you've been in the gym with him. You helped me make that. Trev, I mean... I'm a lot of credit for that guy. Too much. The more I think about it. I mean, is that a description?

You agree with me on the description? I haven't been an athlete? 100%. The more I think about it, I think back to the days when I was in the gym and you had Max Fried, G. Lido, and Flaherty all working out with us. I thought I was like motivating them. I don't think they needed my motivation at all.

In fact, they probably prolonged my career a little bit, just trying to keep. keep up with those guys. So I probably should send them like a glass of wine or a ball of wine. I mean. Those guys are freak athletes. All of them and not just Jack because we always give Jack so much love on this show and rightfully so. But the other two of them, Max and Lucas are extremely good athletes as well. And so I have to give them credit to because if I don't, they'll be texting the same. We know we love Jack. Trev normally hates pitchers except those three guys for some weird reason.

Buster, I want to ask you quick, this was awesome. I mean, this was a baseball deep dive. Most baseball we've done. Again, Jeff Passon mentioned nothing about baseball. All he talked about was his hair the whole time. It's really weird. Can we get a little Buster Only off the field? I mean, what's going on?

Do you sneak in some Netflix? Like, what's Buster only get into in the off season? A huge Civil War buff, okay? My stepfather's name, my mom got remarried when I was seven. My stepfather's name is Ed Lincoln, and he is a distant. relative. I want to make this clear. I'm not related to Abraham Lincoln, but my stepdad is. And my little brother and sister are related. But their, his last name is Lincoln. So from the time I was seven years old, I became a huge civil war nerd. And so most off seasons, like, you know,

two winters ago, I drove down, went to Appomatics, went to, you know, my third time through Antietam, my six times through Gettysburg. I just absolutely love that stuff. And so, You know, this winter, I've done, you know, because we're all locked down for the most part. That's what I've been doing. I've been reading a lot of Civil War stuff. What books have you been checking out? I'm a big history buff and book reader. Jimmy's about to be in your DMs a lot more.

Any new book I got to check out? I have not read it, but there was a – I just read a New York Times Book Review about three weeks ago on a new book on Lincoln about his acumen and diplomacy. which fascinates me. And I'm not going to, I was about ready to dive into it. Like I was going to dive into like the Yankees offseason moves. And I just decided, no, I'm not going to do that. Let's just say it's a really cool Abraham Lincoln book. All right.

I did a whole course on Lincoln. He's pretty funny dude. The funniest little tidbit I got is he shared an office when he was a lawyer with another lawyer. And he would let his kids in his office all the time. And they would just tear the bookshelves apart and rip up everything and Lincoln didn't care at all. He would just laugh and his like partner-in-law was like, what the fuck,

Abe? Sorry, what the hell, Abe? You can't do this. Like, he was a weird, aloof guy. Like, Mani Ramirez is kind of weird, but ran the country. Well, he, yeah, his kids would tear up some of the war maps and some of the cabinet members were like appalled. He felt that they were, you know, too, you know, too, he was too loose with them and didn't

have enough discipline. And I'd say this, you know, we were just talking about Jack Flaherty is an athlete, that was Abraham Lincoln. That guy would have been a sick athlete, sick baseball player, if he'd the opportunity to play. Wow. Wow. Love that.

He got, someone challenged him to a duel once, Trev, and the rules were that you could decide the weapon you were going to use in the duel, and he didn't want to actually die, so he chose tree branch. Well, he also, he actually, when he did that, he sent a thing back. He said, I want to go with broadsword. Yes. But that was his sense of humor coming through, like, you know, let's not be ridiculous about this. After he was killed, the doctor who did the autopsy, because of course, by the end of, you know, the Civil War, he had this very haggard face.

He looked like he'd aged about, you know, 30 years during the time of the war. And the doctor did the autopsy was shocked at how fit he was, his athleticism as, you know, they were going through that. and he just remarked on it in his notes about, you know, what a, what a phenomenal and how strong he must have been when he was younger. It's awesome. We could talk about. Yeah, this is slippery, slow. But I do one more question. I'll keep it a yes or no so we can get, we can let you go.

You scared me a lot with the Blue Jays talk, so I need a yes here. But you can be honest, DJ LaMayu returning to the Yankees, yes or no? My guess is yes. Okay, thank you very much. Perfect. We'll end it there. That's amazing. Thank you very much, Buster.

appreciate this the best okay guys great to talk with you thanks for having me of course thank you sir guys how you doing kenny how's it going man good thank you very much for joining us pleasure pleasure how are you what's going on i gotta warn you guys first of all i'm not as cool as passing nah i think you use the wrong word i think you use the wrong word You don't use as much hair product is Passing. Passing told us his hair's all fake. He said he wouldn't either. He uses PEDs.

He admitted it. It's true. He did say that. So we've been breaking news on our own, I guess. Yes. Well, no PEDs here. Huge. I'm joined with Ken Rosenthal.

I was younger, and I had a little growth hormone. It might have helped things, you know? Yeah, you got to start early. All right. This interview is brought you by Roosevelt. You got Ken Rosenthal here. Can you just actually released an article Like a couple minutes ago about Blake Snell

So I'm interested in that right off the bat You're I didn't haven't got a chance to read it because we've been been high on it But from the headline looks like you're pondering or thinking that it's probably smart to trade them I wouldn't say that it's kind of a pros and cons type thing Okay Where I Explain listen this is different than Shields price and archer The team is coming off the world series a world series appearance and

and they have the chance to be really good again next season. So while the raise are going to be the raise, right, they churn players and this is what they do, it's a little less tempting and a little more foreboding to do it with this particular pitcher at this particular time, which is not to say they won't do it, which is not to say they shouldn't do it. Of course, it depends on the offer they get. Jake thought after the World Series that is probably, you know, because maybe SNAPE, doesn't buy into that philosophy anymore. He doesn't, you're not interested in it.

And then also you take the money aspect and the raise are all about maximizing value. So he actually said after the World Series, this may be the last time we see Snow in a raise uniform. It does make sense from if you get into that Ray's brain to try and get a bunch for him now. But we always say, if the race come calling for a prospect, you better be careful. And the Rangers just sent. What's Chris Young doing? That's a no-no.

Yeah, the Rangers just sent a guy over there and never heard of him. I bet he's going to be a star soon. Well, it's a great point. And they do have a way of making these guys into legitimate players. But if you guys go back to the James Shieldway Davis trade, that was ripped more than any trade I can remember as a reporter. That trade was just trashed from the royal. People were criticizing the royals, say, how can you trade Will Myers? And Will Myers was the centerpiece.

Oterese was also in that trade. So was Mike Montgomery in a minor league who never really became of or came of anything, Patrick Leonard. That trade worked out pretty well for the Royals, right? They won the 2015 World Series. Davis became a great closer. Shields did what he had to do in the two years he had with the team. So the raise in that trade didn't do as well as we all thought. They wound up trading Myers, of course.

So it's not always that they rip off the other team, but certainly in recent years it's happened quite a bit. I mean, that other raised transaction that comes up all the time was in 2017, they traded for Trevor Plu. It didn't pan out. Well, that was the real fault of Trevor Plouf. That must have been the Ray's not getting the most out of him. Oh, my gosh. It was my fault. It was all of my fault because they have an excellent player development system there.

I was already just fully developed and not good enough anymore. So it's, I'll take it. It's okay. Yeah, Trevor, you should have taken it from these guys, man. Come on. That's very true. We got cut from TV. Kenny, I've told the story on the pod before, but what really happened there was I was coming over and I was going to spot start for Longoria.

And so my first series there, I started at third base. I got a D8 start. And the day that I started at third base, Longoria actually sat. And he ran around the clubhouse saying like, oh, this is how we're running things now. We got a new guy and he's going to take my position. He was shouting this in the middle of the clubhouse. And I was laughing. And like I could care less.

He said he's Evan Longoria. He can say whatever he wants. it's his team. The next day, like I didn't see third base again for quite some time. Evan was playing every single day. So that's kind of how it went down a little bit.

Like I was maybe going to play more and then Evan was like, no. Hey, it's like I've just said, through no fault of your own. He was about to break out too. He was coming third base and got mad and that was that. I was just about to hit my prime right there.

Apple power. Ken, we have asked everyone. It's our Roosevelt's question of the day. We're trying. We're taking tabs. It started off, not lopsided.

It's very lobsided now. I don't think you can give him the numbers. Okay. Because that might be skewing. Predictions where Trevor Bauer will land. The teams that have been predicted are the Mets, the Padres, and the Angels. Do you have a team for us? Do you think he'll land?

I have a different team. Okay. Dodgers. Ooh. Now do you think they'll get him on a short contract, kind of high money, shorter years? I have no idea, John, why I'm. completely guessing as it is. But I would imagine if it was the Dodgers, that is the kind of deal that would be.

That's the kind of deal they generally prefer. I just see him being in a big market. He obviously is mindful of his profile. He wants to do things to promote the game, promote players, and what better place to do it than L.A. or New York, for that matter. I agree with that thought process. Well, that's what I said. He wants bright lights for sure.

He's been working hard to build his brand. And obviously, if you're thinking about it. thinking about brand as well as games, you're going to want to go to the best spot. All right, we lost Ken real quick. You can hear us? How about that? Look at that. Upside down question, Monica.

I love it. There we go. Sorry, the tech monster got us. Well, thank you for hanging with us. Yeah, we're on hour six here, so we knew it would crash on us at some point. So you think Dodgers, that's where we left off. Yeah. And it's just a guest job.

I never know. People ask these things, and we get surprised all the time. No one would have guessed Machado to the Padres that one year. So it's a guest. That's it. Now I asked Jeff Passing this, and I'll ask you, and you don't need to give any specifics at all. Is there any deal out there that's come to you that you think is probably 80% done, but you can't act on it or it's not officially done? But you know before us, yeah, that's probably going to happen.

No specifics need it, but is there anything out there lingering? Nothing that I'm aware of. Maybe Jeff knows of five or six, but I don't know. He knows nothing. No, you're no more than him. We know. We know that you know before him. We know that.

He makes it up. No, actually, no. It's not quiet, but it's quiet, I know in terms of what you're seeing reported and what it's actually being done. I'm not sure how the pace is going to go. I was a little surprised earlier this week when the pace got a little quicker, but I'm not surprised it's slowing down again. And I would expect maybe next week will be a little bit better, but really we're going

to see a lot once it's determined how long the season is going to be, what the rules are going to be, and all of those things that we just have no idea about right now. I'm open. I want to ask Kenny, I think it was Buster or maybe both him and Jeff referenced. There's only a handful of teams that are really going to be spending money this offseason. Are you hearing the same thing? Is it going to be the Blue Jays, the Mets, and the Angels? Is there any teams, maybe the White Sox are in that?

Who is spending money? I expect the Dodgers will spend some money, not a lot because they're near the threshold. But it's a handful. Those guys, I would agree with what they said. And the teams you mentioned, certainly we've seen the White Sox, the Mets, Blue Jays, the Yankees will spend to a degree, probably not much beyond LaMahue if they get that done based on what we're seeing and hearing so far. But it's not a lot of teams.

Now, I will say this, the Royals have surprised me because here's a low revenue team. Now, granted, I'm not saying they've done anything major. They haven't. But even Mike Minor, two years 18 and Santana, two years 17.5, that was beyond where I thought they would go. And here they are. They also, with their RAB eligible guys, signed quite a few of them. I think it was five. So they're not exactly.

What's the thinking there? They're kind of investing in the current team that they have. Is that like a play they think that the Central maybe is up for grabs, or is it just appeasing some fans there like, hey, we know we've been pretty bad lately. We want to put a decent product on the field. It's more of the latter, but Dayton Moore, their general manager is a little bit different than many of the other general managers, quite frankly. He believes obviously in their rebuilding program,

but he wants to support it as they go forward, and he wants to bring in the right players that he believes will influence. the younger players properly for lack of a better term. And that's what they're doing. Yeah, best case, if the team's not winning those guys perform and they can flip them to re-bolster and play that game as well. Do you expect in the NL Central that now we have the Reds are kind of selling, the pirates are still rebuilding, the Cubs are selling, and the Brewers are maintaining.

You know, we just talked with Buster and he was like, if the Cardinals don't win this division, something went wrong. Do you expect, because they've said they're managing payroll, But once they see every other team around them kind of going the opposite way, do you think maybe that incentivize them to like, hey, let's go grab a guy because now we can really take this division easier? It should. I don't know that it will, but it definitely should. And the Cubs, frankly, are in the same position. They're good.

They're defending division champions. And I understand they want to redo the offense. We've seen enough of that offense, all of us, right? But they still are in a very competitive position. And the Cardinals are too. Now, the Cardinals, they need to address their outfield, figure out third base and all these different things. But they have the core of a really good pitching staff. Now, with them, they have to deal with Wainwright and Molina first.

Those are franchise-type players for them, and then figure out the rest. And we saw them let go of WOM, which was a move that kind of signaled where they were financially. Do I expect that they will seize on some bargains in January? The GM John Mazzalik all but indicated that yesterday. He said January is the new December and all that. I do expect them to be somewhat active, but not crazy. They haven't gone crazy in a while. We were talking about, I don't know if we were,

but what we started this, we're kind of talking about baseball. Trevor brought up your interview with Carlos Correa that played out more like a WWE promo. Trev watches it back. Have you looked, have you watched that back? Have you lived,

walked yourself through that again? Because that's one of the more wild interviews we've had in baseball. in a long time. History. Baseball history right there. I watched it maybe once or twice, and I don't know how to explain this to you guys, but in a situation like that, I knew it was lively, right?

I knew as it was going on, whoa, this is pretty good. But there were certain points afterward. I'm always like this, and I bet Jeff and Buster and everybody else you've had on from the media would say this too. There's always things you think you missed.

Always spots where, I wish I had jumped in with this there and challenged him there and said this. that said that was wild you're right it was wild and it was something one day i'll tell the whole backstory how it came about if i ever read a book when i'm like 95 years old but the whole day the whole 24 hour period was a little crazy but that story has been crazy from the moment it came out and john boy did this thing and everything blew up yeah i gave you i gave you credit for pushing back on him because he's obviously very fired up.

You know, we saw that in him. And you kept pushing back and say, I actually know Carlos, like this is what the report said. I thought that was very important in that interview to not just let him go out there and air, you know, whatever he decided he wanted to air. But you said, these are the facts, man. And you called them on a few different times.

And I think to me that really made it like, yes, it was Carlos Correa, you know, shouting profanities at Cody Bellinger. And that enough is awesome. but for you to to push back and interrupt him and say actually no hold on this is what the report said that's what made the interview for me and like and jimmy said i just went back and watched it i was like hold i got to go watch that interview again because i remember being so enthralled with it while it was fresh and i went back and watched it again it's still that good like if anybody hasn't

watched it in a little bit go back and watch the interview it's incredible there's like a seven eight minute clip or something like that it's worth every every second yeah thanks Trevor and actually I thought I should have pushed back a little bit more. And in my situation there, listen, I have a lot of respect for Carlos, obviously, and he's a great player, and I've had a good relationship with him over the years. But I couldn't simply let him say this, this, and this when I knew it wasn't true. I knew from the report what had happened. I wrote the original report with Evan. So it went fine, and I was just kind of amazed at the whole thing that it went to.

It went down the way it did. But I did know it was fired up. I knew that going in. So I was kind of prepared for that. And I had my questions that I had to ask a few other questions. But it was something for sure, guys, that I'll remember. It was a big thing for me. Can you peel back the curtain a little bit on that article?

So obviously, you guys dropped it. And then, I mean, you had to know beforehand, like, you know, this is going to change a lot of careers. This is huge, huge, huge scandal. How long before, you know, the first inkling of that article started until it got released in November last year? I will talk about that. I'll tell you this. And you guys are going to laugh.

But I will never forget this. I've told this story before. The day it came out with the general managers meetings in Scottsdale, Arizona. And we've been working on it. And it comes out, I don't know, 20 minutes, half hour. Evan and I are standing at the general managers meetings. And Evan says this will be the biggest story I ever do. And I said, what are you talking about?

You're a young guy. You're going to do many big stories. This is not that, it's not bigger than others that might come down the line. And the truth of the matter is, Jimmy, that I didn't realize the impact it would have. Sometimes like you're in the middle of this thing. You're working. You're working. You're trying to get it done.

And you're not thinking along those lines. Now, looking back, what an idiot I was, did impact careers. and it did have an impact on the game that was far greater than I ever thought. But at the time, I was just so worried about getting it done, getting it right with Evan that that part didn't hit me. And probably it should have, but it did not occur to me the way you would think it did. So when you're at those meetings, is everyone looking at their phone at the same time and you see like a wave go through the crowd of like, oh, everyone, it's out?

Well, that goes on at the meetings. Everybody's looking at their phone all the time. But it's a nerve-wracking experience to publish a story like that, quite honestly. And you want to make sure you have it right. You know it's going to be challenged. You know it's going to cause a certain amount of stir. And there's no celebration or victory lap or anything like that. It's just the story is what it is.

And we did our best to make it as good as possible. We knew other stories would come out of it. In fact, we were working on others. at the time that would come out of it. And that's the entire focus. It's not like looking at other people and saying, we got you. Not like that at all.

Well, as one of the careers affected in kind of a positive way from that story, thank you. Sure. Thank you. You know what? Honestly, when the video came out, the one that that day, Jimmy, I was happy to see it because, listen, I know what we had and we had, the guy on the record, he was fine telling the whole story about it.

But to see it visually, that to me elevated the story beyond even where it was because people could see, okay, this was going down. And I thank you because, frankly, it did help. It verified it, it validated it. Not that it needed it. The story was going to be a big deal anyway, but it kind of added juice. Put it that way. Well, yeah, it's just this is real. Because that's exactly what I did.

I just went and looked at it and then I heard it and I was like, oh, my God. Like, it's in your face once you get the article that you guys got at, the quotes that you guys got from those players to the combo. It's like, damn, that was. The first time you see it as a baseball fan, your heart sinks. And then when they kept coming and you're like, it's a curveball, and dude just sits on it and smokes it. Like, I know it made Trev angry.

Like, what? Yeah. And the amazing thing was about it that Farquhar had laid out what had happened. And you went right to the game. And it was clear as day. Now, it's so funny to me, looking back, why did anybody notice this, right? But you had to be looking for it. Oh, yeah.

You had to know. You had to know. Kenny, I went to Houston twice in 2017 with two different teams, and I didn't notice anything. And for years, I've told this story on our pod that I said, the greatest, I would say this all the time. I said the best home field advantage in the big leagues is Houston. I don't know what it is, but you can never score enough runs in Houston. It felt like they were going to come back no matter what.

Clearly now we'd understand why in 2017 I felt that way. As you're thinking Jimmy and Jimmy's like, we wouldn't, Jimmy, Jake and I got started talking because of that story. So here we are now doing all this cool stuff because we were sharing information forth and then we met up. and now they can't get rid of me. So we, oh, you got you and Evan a lot for that. Thank you. Well, we created something good then. And luckily it led into such a normal year this year.

And I, what you've mentioned, our guest list today, which we've been flexing on a lot of people, and we've been very proud of. Michael Kay was another one, voice of the Yankees. Every time me and Jimmy end up talking to him were kind of blown away because that was, you know, like the voice in our houses growing up, basically. And his, like, his image from this year is kind of, of the overlying calling games, calling Yankees Road Games in a dark Yankee Stadium.

Do you have one of those moments if you jump back into this 2020 year where you're either at a game, you're looking around and you're like, what's happening? Like it doesn't make sense, but it does make sense all at the same time? I guess the standout thing for me would be before the playoffs started, Fox told me, listen, you can get on the field. We want you on the field, but you're going to have to quarantine for I think it was eight days in Texas and you would think oh man quarantining but you know what I couldn't wait and I couldn't wait to get back on the field talking to players doing my job the way I normally do it instead of on Zoom calls and that eight days wasn't a lot

of fun you're kind of just trapped in your hotel no it was a nice hotel I'm like I complain about it um and that that's the thing that I'll remember most because the whole year was so fresh frustrating for me, just professionally. We all have our frustrations with this. And obviously, people going through a really hard time and some people went through some tragedy. But just from a professional standpoint, the difficult part for me was not being able to see players, coaches, managers, scouts at the ballparks. That's where I do my work. That's where I build relationships, talk to guys, get information, anything that I do, all kind of flows from that. So you can do it on the phone. You can text and all that. It's not the same. So that to me was a small price to pay

to get back out there and do my job for Fox as a dugout reporter. And then they put on a great show in the World Series and a lot of the playoffs. The games were good. They're competitive. And the spirit of playoff baseball was there, in my opinion. So it didn't, it didn't lack once we got there, because we were there live watching the games as well. It was exciting. No doubt. And it was kind of impressive to me the intensity that the players put forth because they had to dig down. Now once the fans got involved a little bit, even though they're only 10,000 in the Texas

ballpark for the last two rounds each night, you could feel it. And it was better. And the players reacted better to it too. And I'll never forget something counsel said during the regular season, Craig Counsel, the Brewers manager. He said, a player's most exciting time of the night is walking up the steps. of the dugout onto the field with a lot of people in the stands.

And that was not an experience players had this year. And they had to generate their own energy. And Trevor, I imagine you kind of played it out in your head what that was like and it could not have been fun. I mean, I said this earlier. Every single baseball player I talked to this year said it was horrible.

Like you need the fans. Like the fans are everything. You know, that's why you play the game. you know, you're in your core, you're an entertainer, man. And if there's nobody there to entertain and you don't get that rush from the crowd, like, it's just, there's just so much that you need from the crowd. And you don't, I guess you don't realize it until it's gone. Because no one would ever imagine this.

And then all of a sudden, here we are and having to deal with it. But I think guys are really, you're going to see guys be like very, very thankful for fans when they get back into the crowd or back into the stadium. At least for a few minutes. Yeah, until the boot start. Maybe it'll go away, you know, but, but man, every, like, not one person was like, oh, I loved it. There was no pressure.

There was no this. Like, every single person was like, it sucked. We need to have fans of the game. So hopefully we get back to that. All right, Ken, we'll let you go. Thank you very much for spending some time with us. Just tell me the DJ will return to the Yankees so we can end on a happy note. I can't guarantee things, Jamie.

Okay. All right. But I would guess that he would. All right. Okay. How many a bet against it? I mean, you have to think that's going to happen. All right.

Awesome. But they're going to have to pay. Yeah. Don't pay up. All right. Thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thanks,

have a good one. Thanks, Kenny. Oh, snap. That was lit. All right. Now you can go back to enjoying whatever you're doing this holiday. I think this is dropping in between Christmas and New Year's. I don't know.

But whatever it is, I hope you're having fun and you enjoyed that conversation. And go share it with everyone you know. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. See you later.