Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 295 | Cleveland Indians | Profile & Projection

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

You guys ranked the Cleveland Indians MLB's #16 team! Jomboy, Jake, & Plouffe preview their 2021 season Presented by DraftKings Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Time for another team profile and projection here on Talking Baseball, brought to you by Draft Kings. My name's Jimmy. I got Jake Trev and BBD here. We're talking about the Cleveland Indians. They finished 35 and 25 last year, lost in the first round of the playoffs. They have had a winning record eight years in a row. They haven't finished in third place or worse in the last five years,

nothing but first and second place finishes. Insane amount of talent on these baseball clubs last couple years, Jake, which talent remained and which talent left and which talent was added. Jimmy, some big talent leaving town. Frankie Lindoror goes over to the Mets with Carlos Carrasco, one of the big trades of the offseason. Brad Hand, who's been closing games for them, he went to the nationals.

Carlos Santana, first base, not guitar. goes over to the Royals in division. Adam Simber throwing gross stuff out of their pen. He's gone. Tyler Naquin as well. Who they added, speaking of indivision, how about everyday Eddie Rosario? He'll do what he does for the Indians this year.

Who came over in that Lindor trade? Jimenez and Rosario, a couple guys who might see an action at shortstop Rosario. I think they want to make him a little versatile, agile, hostile. And Trevor Plouffe, what does that Indians lineup look like now without Francisco Lendora at the top of it. It doesn't look as good. I'll tell you that much. I don't.

I think like any of these lineups, there's a lot of certain positions that are going to be there. We know the guys are going to be there, talking about a guy like Jose Ramirez. There's going to be other positions. There's going to be some battles. Catcher, we're going to see Roberto Perez behind the plate.

We all know that. First base, this is one of those positions, but we're not really sure. Josh Naylor coming over from the Padres, had that miracle wild card season. series against the Yankees, but they also have Jake Bowers coming over from the raised, like both those guys. So a couple good options there.

Second base, Caesar Hernandez coming over from the Phillies. Him and Lindor were so fun to watch last year. I'm excited to see what him and Rosario and Ramiro's do this year. Shortstop, like I said, coming over from the Mets in the Lindor trade, Ahmed Rosario, obviously huge shoes to fill, but he's a good player in his own right. And that third base, perennial MVP kind of guy, Jose Ramirez. he really flourished into an outstanding player, man. And I love watching him.

And then in left field, maybe one of my favorite players in the big leagues right now, Eddie Rosario, coming over from the twins, guy's just a killer. He's going to give you everything he's got. I love watching and play the game. Centerfield, Oscar Mercado, our guy, friend of the show,

right field, Daniel Johnson. I'm sure these are a couple positions they're not extremely set on. I think the DHS might be Framiel Reyes, going to be banging the ball for those Indians or not the Indians. What are they going to be called this year? I think this is the Indians. Last year is Indians. Last year is the Indians? I'm not calling them the Indians. The Cleveland ball team. Jim, who's their starting rotation?

Well, you might remember their starting rotation from 2018, which was Corey Klobber, Mike Clevenger, Cookie Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, and Shane Bieber in the five hole. The top four guys have all left. Bieber goes from the fifth to the first. He saw a young winner. He's really good. Savali is going to be in the rotation with him. Plissac is going to be in the rotation with him. Tristan McKenzie, Sequence's own is going to be in the rotation with him.

Cal Quantrell. Jake and I have had a lot of fun discussions about him. He'll be there. Logan Allen, maybe Scott Moss. Relievers, they got Karen Jack, Wild Thing. They got Nick Whitgren. Claese, Emmanuel. Anyone decided how we say that kid's name?

I think he got it. Oliver Perez, Old Man River. he'll be in the bullpen I mean the arms are still kind of there it's just now they're going back to younger talent instead of developed talent besides Bieber like he's a stud and will be a stud police sack had a really good year

we'll see if he on the field on the field yeah police sack's police sack's very interesting analytically he doesn't really throw a hard and he doesn't have good spin rate on any of his pitches

but he's got great results his slider's pretty nasty but it's kind of interesting. He doesn't top out like any of the analytics button. Whereas Savali, you think of him as a slow thrower, but his spin rate on his curve and his fastball even is like plus plus. So I think I believe in this Indians team to be 500 and in the mix again. They literally Major League played out.

They want to lose, but they keep winning. Eight years in a row with a winning record. and like we've said a couple times, they still have so much talent on this roster and guys getting called up that should be impact. I don't know. I mean,

it sucks they traded Lendor. I don't think they're trying to lose. I don't think they're trying to lose. I know, I know like if you trade Lendor, that means you're not trying to win as much. But I think they just really screwed up. And Clevenger.

Yeah, they didn't, they should offer Lendor a deal three years ago, four years ago. It was clear this guy was. special. Now you lose them. But their problem, like you said, Jim, is they're just kind of too good at developing pitching. Like, you can't lose if your pitchers are this good. And what they do, we talk about this a lot, like organization-wide, if a organization can develop pitchers, sometimes there's like one thing that they do really well. They teach really well. But the Indians,

it really seems like it's a person-to-person kind of development where they have a bunch of guys that throw differently, but they're able to, like, get that max potential out of a lot of these pitchers. That's kind of what we see here in their rotation. And if you're trying to win, you shouldn't be putting these guys on the hill because you're going to win, you're going to win ball games with them. Yeah, they're trying to win, but they're trying to win as financially tight as they can. It's almost we have to lump them with the raise in Oakland at this point. You know, their record the past five years, six years is really good. They've been in the playoffs. the last four out of five years.

And yeah, it's just one of those things that's kind of this disappointing, like where could they be with two more free agents and not even big time? Like, how about a Jock Peterson that was a one for seven? Like if you could pencil him in in this lineup, you know, it would make this team, you know, almost a contender or like an outside contender. Now it's part of the problem with MLB baseball right now. It's like, yeah, this team could make the wild card. and who knows

so I don't know the pitching staff is so young you wonder if there's any you know Major League Baseball has a way of bouncing back against guys you wonder if it continues for Plee Saxe Valli you know McKenzie these guys still have a lot to prove

on the Major League level and baseball has a way of coming back yet at the same time Jim says that Cleveland Indian staff of a couple years ago and you're like oh my God it's been a pitching factory so I don't know, man. And Brad Hand's going to be interesting, too.

Karen Chack was, you know, crazy strikeouts last year. Numbers you don't see. And, you know, in the playoffs, he got punched in the mouth a little bit. So we'll see if that fuels him as he goes to the closer roll. And they get Class A, who was the big piece in that Kluver trade originally. So I don't know, man. I mean, they've got arms and they've got something brewing. It's what are they going to get from the lineup?

up and But isn't, didn't I do like Rosario's offensive output compared to Lindor's the last two seasons and it was not crazy different? Obviously the defense is different. Shortstop versus outfielder. But I remember looking at the offensive output if, if Rosario goes into the three hole,

it's not that crazy different output offensively, which was shocking. Not shocking, but like, oh my God, they might be, they might be doing the damn thing you're doing. The offense isn't absurd. You know, Eddie Rosario hits. That's what he does. You know, it's the fact that it comes from the shortstop position.

And Cleveland, I mean, they got nothing from their outfield last year, and we'll see what they get from shortstop this year. Is it Jimenez? Does Rosario come back? The Mets shortstop from last year. So it's kind of, it's moving value around. Like, okay, Rosario somewhat fills that Frankie hitting gap a little bit. But where are you losing stuff on the rest of the baseball field?

So, no, I mean, again, it's that top half. You know I'm a big Fran Mill Reyes fan. Got a good year last year. Played in almost every game. Hernandez gets on base. Jose Ramirez is going to sneak into the top 10 of the MVP, just because that's what he does. Rosario's going to hit, and I love Fran Mill.

And then it's coin flipping season at the bottom. Does Josh Naylor fuel off that playoff performance, or is he like the negative war? MLB player that he's been up into that point. He's still 23 years old, so I'm expecting him to get better. Bowers, this was a guy that a lot of people liked, and then he kind of went missing. Oscar Mercado, our dude, you know, this was supposed to be like a five-tool light guy, had a really weird year last year, so what does he bring back? He was supposed to be at the top of that lineup, and said he found himself at the alternative site for a little bit. So a couple of

those pieces pan out. The pitching is going to be there to a degree, and I think these Windians are going to win more ball games than they lose. You know anything about Nolan Jones? I was just reading that they're expecting him to actually jump up and platoon in the outfield with Looplo. This kid, Nolan Jones, was a draft pick out of, where's he from? Do, do, no one cares anyway.

Holy Ghost Prep High School. Holy Ghost. That's a funny name. Holy Ghost High School's funny. He's got a really good eye and really good power. and he's not going to break camp in April because of service time manipulation. And he is really young and he hasn't played a lot.

But I was reading up on him and they're excited if he can come up and even platoon and give on-base percentage and some power, outfield bat. I think we're going to be kicking ourselves because this team never goes for the jugular but still finds their way to have a winning record

or be in contention. That's my question. is where is the arrow pointing for the Indians organization? This. Lighty up? Is it down down? Like what are we trying to do? This. This is exactly what they're trying to do and we'll continue to do. It seems like their farm system is stacked. They still have the young, controllable pitchers at the big league level. Guys on the way. It's a weird. If I'm a Cleveland Indian fan, I'm kind of confused with what's going on.

This ownership. If you're trying to lose and you're this good, how good could you be? This ownership crew has what they want. They can put a good enough product out there to say we're putting a good enough product out there without having to pay basically a franchise player. They locked Jose Ramirez up early. He's got one of the best contracts in the sports right now. So they're just going to keep doing this until something else happens.

If these pitchers don't work out and the team takes a step, up in the wrong direction and people actually get loud. It's sad for a team that, you know, I think they still have the sellout record at the old Jake there. Guess how many players this Indians team has under contract for the 2022 season? What do you mean? So not like Josh Naylor? No, he's still ARP. Right.

Okay. They don't count that as like guaranteed contract because they can always DFA or do whatever with them. Jose Ramirez. and it's that it? Not even. They have zero players getting guaranteed money in 2022. Zero. Jose has two club options.

They'll probably pick them up, but they don't have to. They don't have to at all. They have zero guys getting guaranteed money in 2022. I'm going to pencil in the Jose Ramirez 11 mil for 2022. Pencil, but I'm still, even then, and it's still the same point. Right.

Oh. That's crazy. Yeah. And they finished one game back last year. Of everyone's darling white socks now, and, you know, the twins are going to be there too. I mean, yeah, with Lindorr still on this team, there's an argument that they could win the A.O. Central.

This is why this team should be the perfect example of why they can't expand the playoffs. Yeah, if you have multiple teams just doing this, that sucks. Hey, oh, can I get some juice? And then sealing. We all think they can somehow win the division. Treve, you might be the biggest ask here. Jake, do you think they can? No.

All right. Sealing. I also don't think they can win the division. But, I mean, I will say this. Twins and White Tucks are both really good. Sealing, even like 1% chance. I think they can. The ceiling is there.

I have the angels with a better chance to win the division than Cleveland. Oh, no chance. I mean, their lineup's good, and their pitching's good. They could add somebody. They have the capacity to add somebody if they want to, and I feel like they're not afraid to do that. Is there history of that? They added Pueig. They traded Bauer.

They added other people that traded Club. They always trade talent. It's the same way that they operate. They trade and trade just to be status quo. Lineups not good. You're right. It's a good two, three, four. Okay, no, I said no, they can't win the division.

I don't think the ceiling is the division. Okay, fine. You guys talked me off. I was giving them 1% chance, just because the pitching is good, but the lineup's really. They made me eat my words last year. I said the pitching wasn't good. I said they got a lot of young guys, unproven guys. I thought we weren't going to bring that up. Lights out.

I mean, Bieber, you pencil him in with the best in baseball. Police Svali, McKenzie, like, you like all these young guys, but I just think baseball is going to show up for one or two of them. Don't do it. Don't make the same mistake I made. No, Trev, I'm not saying they have a bad pitching staff, and I even like some of their death pieces. Jim mentioned Cal Quantrell. Plutko, your guy, I'm guessing they're going to have him,

Trevor Stefan from Yankees, Rule 5 Drapec. They're going to have all these guys stretched out, and it's a year when everybody's going to need pitching. So it's going to be interesting to see who steps up. Like Logan Allen, who I see as their potential 5-6 starter right now, he's 23 years old. I'm scared of what he's going to be doing, because every young guy I've seen Cleveland call up.

has been good. So they've got a little bit of a factory going on right now, but I'm interested to see what we're saying about this pitching staff come midseason. Bieber's going to be there, and then is Plessac bona fide? Does he take the leap? There's a good chance he does, but some of the analytics is weird. I don't know. I don't know.

I wouldn't count out their rotation. Well, you don't like Pleesac because of the... I'm not counting them out. I just know I don't like Plesack. I've actually followed his offseason quite closely. One of my buddies is working with him a lot. I mean, you talk

about analytics gym, not favorable to him there. He's got a bad haircut, which you know, is always tough for me. But he's got that it factor. Can't deny it. I mean, he was really... He walks around like he saw Young. And there's something about that.

He was really good last year. But, again, they played one. Just don't put a camera on him when he's driving because he does tend to say things that Yeah, luckiest thing he has going is that Bauer's not vlogging in the clubhouse anymore. Yeah. This is what I'm saying about the pitching stuff. They only have one starting pitcher that's going to have over 1.1 years of the MLB service time.

That's what they like. So if the injury bug does happen, or baseball fights back a little bit, this pitching staff isn't going to look as strong as it can be. But all those guys are young and talented. I'm not betting against them, but it can look very different come midseason. Yeah.

Did check something real quick. What are you checking? And I mean, I guess the other thing... Oh, yes. The other thing that's getting to me is... So we talked about the division, like, White Sox are stacked, pitching and hitting. Yeah.

Twins, I mean, they lean hitting, but they pitch enough to be a really good 100-win baseball team. They pitch really well. We talked about that. They pitched really well. Top five rotation as far as ERA plus. They're a very solid regular season pitching team. Like this team versus those other two teams, no.

Yeah. It depends, dude. Tristan McKenzie is what I was looking at. Does he still have his rookie eligibility intact? He does. That's a little sprinkle for me, Jake. Hot. A little sprinkle on that,

rookie of the year type thing. He's got the stuff. I've been watching him kind of come out of his shell doing a lot of interviews. I like the way his mind works. I love everything about the guy. And there's Max's fun stat.

Jim, do you want to read it? Max's fun stat. Right-hand pitcher James Karen Chack and Tristan McKenzie were two of only 10 pitchers and the only two pitchers, 25 and under, with three plus inches of vertical movement above the league average on their four seam seamers.

I didn't input any of that. There's a lot of numbers there. That is using that leverage. That's a tough angle for hitters, man. He's a tall guy and he's just coming downhill at you. And you got to match that plane and you got that four seam at the top of the zone. Good luck. Slider off of it.

The age thing there makes it so I don't care about it anymore. The best young guys twirling four seamers about that. Yeah, that's a good way to play. put it. It's a good way to put it. The Draft King has the over under at 81 and a half. They're going to get a lot of games in against the NL Central playing each other. 81 and a half. What do you got?

I'm going over. I don't think it's a big over. I think this is an 83, 85 win team, and I think that's kind of what they want. It's exactly where I have them. Right over 500. in the mix and then it could go one of either way. I think it could go like they're in the mix and they take off

or they're in the mix and they kind of just whimper away towards the end of the season. But I am a believer in some of the young guys and still just the way that they play ball over there. So I'll take the over as well. Yeah, I was going to take the over. I don't know if I want to make this part of our parlaying or not. I think they still have a lot of talent.

I don't rule out their pitching. They just, they've won, They've been over 500, eight years in a row, and this is what they do. They just trade people, and then they bring people up. The lineup's weak, but I don't know, maybe Jones is going to be a fixture. Hey, you have Mercado comes back. Naler figures it out. Bowers figures it out.

Nolan Jones can hit. It's a lot of them. Like, those are a lot of moving parts, but if one or two, you know, it turns into a better lineup, it's rooting for them for Chris Rose, not rooting them for the sake of the future of baseball. Tristan McKenzie's I don't know man It's gross

The lineup on paper Is not a fun look You got a good Two three four They pencil a zero in For their catcher hitting Either way if it's hedges or Perez And then it's

Who else is gonna do something Man that's tough Yeah I mean their pitchies That to be incredible all year I might have to make a switch Oh Going under Oh

Yeah, I will. I will. The lineup is just, I have a lot of things go right. They proved me wrong last year with their pitching set. Maybe they will offensive. Trevor Pluth hated in Cleveland. All those twins bombs? I believe in the pitching this year.

That's good. Huge. That's good.