Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 454 | Jeff Passan and Ian Happ Give Updates from the CBA Negotiations

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Get 20% off + free shipping with the code 'TALKIN at https://manscaped.com Learn more about the Topps 1952 Mickey Mantle Card NFT at https://bit.ly/TT-MMNFT-JM1 Go to https://getroman.com/TALKIN today, and if you're prescribed, get $15 off your first month of ED treatment Timestamps: 8:00 - Ian Happ 21:00 - Jeff Passan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. We are going to be joined by a player and a reporter on today's episode to get the scoop. Hello. Welcome to talking baseball. My name is Jimmy. Sitting next to me is Jake. And behind the dish, we have producer BBD. Trevor Plough is somewhere tropical?

Is he, he's somewhere nice? Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. he's having a nice time. So he's enjoying that and, you know, we're just going to dive into the nitty gritty of labor disputes because that's what we do.

That's at my vacation. How are you doing, Jake? James, not Trevor, BPD, everyone joining us on this fine Wednesday. I'm doing well. Exciting Wednesday at the Draft King Studios in Manhattan. a lot of peeps in the office today, a lot of good vibes. I think some of the people are feeling good juice from the fact that MLB and MLP are just meeting. Yeah, the updates aren't great, but we will get our own updates on today's show.

Yes. And they haven't been like specifically bad. Haven't been bad. Have they? I've been a little bit of boarding and the ones that I read have been bad like that there's making no ground. Like the one I read this morning was that. The MLB or the PA, one of them changed their offer in like the, the arbitration amount of money and it was a $5,000 difference.

And that's not even real. Right. That's, no one cares about that $5,000. That is just wasting time to waste time. I forget what, who did it, but like, hey, in the grand scheme of things, we can't, you cannot send an offer that is. $5,000 different because you are just, just accept it. At that point, just accept it. Because you're just wasting time. Yeah, I'd be careful a little bit if you haven't been tracking it too closely because it's just,

this is how MLB negotiates. And if they conceded something else and they have waited until their quote unquote final hours that were potentially in the ML day has, the MLB has their deadline set as the 28th. That's the arbitrary deadline they've set. I have no idea who's doing what I'm just saying either you counter at 20 grand or you accept it because countering at 5 is just a waste of time. Well, that's what they're doing.

That's what they've been doing the whole time. That's why we're here the last week of February still talking about this because that's how MLB negotiates. They wait to the last final minute and they're going to slowly start caving. So that's why I think the MLBPA has been excited the past couple days because they're actually, they're actually moving things instead of just sitting still. so that's zero to 5,000 for whatever you were reading. I know they actually made some, they actually raised the pool of that

R2 players or whatever it is to get the young guys paid earlier. So yeah, I mean, hey, we're still against a fake arbitrary deadline that doesn't seem like we're going to hit that in time. You know, again, we got some boats on the streets, so we're going to get some some better updates than that. But yeah, man, I mean, it just sucks. I think we're officially in the territory of like,

in a week, we're going to know a lot more. Like, we're going to pass the first arbitrary deadline. In a week, next Monday, is the MLB's deadline to get a deal done before, I guess, canceling opening day? I don't know if they dangle those words or if there's, I feel like that next week is an emergency week after that if they can figure something out by the fourth,

that's kind of your real deadline. But I think they set the 28th out there. And if they figure it out, yeah, March 4th or something, they'll figure out how to start the season still on time. MLB took away the options, remember when that was like something? They backed off that proposal. I forget what they. So that's good.

Yeah, I don't know. Those were the three updates. It was the demo we took away stuff that they were fighting over $5,000 and there was one more where my sense I haven't read the positive stuff or looked at it.

I don't know what the 5,000 thing. I just haven't seen that. That was in the athletic article this morning by Drillich, I believe. I forget what it was about. And like I said, but I'm excited to chat with, do they know who we're talking?

Talking, uh, yeah, we're supposed to get Happer and Jeff Passon to two friends of the show. Uh, one Johnboy Media Man, one tall enough to be a John Boy Media man.

So we'll get Uncle Jeff. His last tweet was another day of small moves on the labor front. PA dropped its ass from 80% of 2 plus players receiving salary up to 75%. Additionally, Union bumped the minimum Major League salaries slightly and some small things. So again, we're, the bigger problem is we're moving Mount mole hills instead of mountains. The phrase has never been used that way, but let's think about it. The phrase has never been. Let's just think about it for a second.

They are, well, insert, yeah, I don't know. There's big things at play. I guess if you wanted to adapt that phrase into this, it would be like, we're taking a month across a molehill with a mountain looming. making mole hills out of mountain. Mole hills are hills made by moles. The saying is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Right. So it's just a little hill.

They've been making mole hills out of mountains. But if I tell someone... They've been turning mole hills into mountains. And there's an actual mountain in the distance. They've been ignoring the big mountain. They're like spending three months building a bridge to cross a stream. And as soon as they get over that, the Mississippi River's there. That's what they're doing if they're Lewis and Clark.

It's like, hey, just walk through this one. It's only knee deep because save your energy for that one. And they're just instead spending all their time on the stream. And who are we in this situation? Saka Joa. Okay. And you're her unborn son that she's carrying. Oh.

Yes. Very beautiful. She was a beautiful woman. From every report, right? I don't know if they ever reported on her looks. But she's like incredibly brave. Yeah. Strong.

History pod. Yeah. Lewis or Clark adopted her son at one point. Forget the one that didn't kill himself. And these aren't actual moles. No, we're talking about streams. Okay. James, have you read Undaunted Courage?

Walter Briggs asked me in the chat. I have read half of undalted courage. The Ken Burns documentary on Lewis and Clark is one of my favorites. Jake is wearing a leopard print, leopard print shirt today. today and definitely if you were to see Jake on the street or cheetah. Cheetah print might be cheetah. If you were to see him on the street in South Beach, you would say that dude don't got no pubs.

He manscapes. And it's true. Jake does manscape and he uses manscaped and he buys it and he uses code talking to get 20% off and free shipping when he does. He also uses their premium deodorant. Not for his balls, but for his stanky arm. It dries clear and it's aluminum free, which is the British way to say aluminum. Smells like their signature scent.

He uses their hydrating body spray. That guy in that shirt smells good for sure. He uses their body wash and their shower gel. And he gets it in the gift, the three-pack set of lip balm that's made up with ingredients such as vitamin E, peppermint and e. Pappermint and eucalyptus oil to keep those chappers feeling moist. Wow. Get 20% off plus free shipping with the code talking at manscape.com. And you can look and feel and smell like Jake does right now.

It's a really interesting point. Someone that looks like me right now, they either smell fantastic or they're the worst person you've ever smelled. Well, they smell fantastic, but it's not them that you're smelling. Oh, okay. It's like very much a scent. If you give them a hug and you smell their neck, you get a good smell.

But if you got like, Yes. If they wrap their arm around you and you get a whiff of what's happening under there? Yes. Oh my God. Like you're dressed up and sent, but you smell bad, you know. Jim, I just got a message from Ian Hap that said, let's do it. All right.

I'm going to call him. He said he might be a little tight. He's at the meetings. They tweeted that yesterday. Yeah. Big tweet for him. It should be ringing or we should just hear him at some point. Come on, Ian Hap.

What's up? Hello, can you hear us? All right. Hell yeah. We're live talking baseball with Ian Hap, reporter from the meetings. That's your official title right now? Yeah, I'm coming. How are the vibes yesterday?

Hey, you got a retweet from passing yesterday, and it was like, oh, Ian Hap is in the building. Were you feeling extra pressure? You know what I did? I on purpose showed up just enough. late to walk in by myself there. That's smart. How much time did you put into your outfit?

You're negotiating outfit. It's a big collared shirt feel. It's a big golf polo thing. But I'm going no, I'm going no polo a little bit, changing the vibes in the room. I like that. You should have busted out your Rush Hour 2 suit that we did the old trivia game back in. Wow. I guess that'll be next time.

And can you remind me, are you running for the players or the owners here? I like you. I like you splitting it. How are you doing, dude? Like, what, how are the vibes there? Obviously, we're not trying to get you in trouble or say anything too far, but I mean, are things pretty intense from the start? Are they friendly with intense moments?

Like, what's going on? Yeah, I think it's more, I'm trying to talk through things. You try to figure out kind of exactly where you can make moves, and then sometimes things get intense later in the day, but it's, I think it's progress. I think being in the same room has been very helpful over the Zoom, but it's a process. This whole thing's a process. And a lot of, a lot of probably what should have been done in Dallas, a lot of, like, being in the room for multiple hours sitting there, going back and forth, like that stuff is kind of happening now how close we're going to get. And I don't know exactly.

if it's going to be today, tomorrow, two weeks, two months. But just being in the room and talking is a positive. Have the reports been accurate to like what you hear in your meetings and what you're now, like, witnessing as you go back and forth? Because really, we haven't got, it's not like the trade deadline where there's a lot of nonsense or even like the COVID season when there was a lot of nonsense being reported that It was like very speculative and you didn't know. Like everything that's being reported from third party public, you know,

I think Drelich and Passon, it seems, are doing a really good job. And we're talking to Passing later on on the show. But from your perspective, is it being manipulated in the media as much as it was in 2020? No, I don't think. There's definitely minor thing. It might be the general feel of how picky tech is. I think some of the big things that's crazy when you look at the, minimum versus the other three major sports and like where we said and I get I get some

acknowledgement of that are you are you eyeing and like practicing in the shower a spot to jump in the conversation today or as has like max shurs are giving you like a hap we appreciate you're here but let let let I got this get on my right arm or where are you jumping in uh yeah that's interesting there's you know there's times for uh for emotional support uh and you know if you have something there's different guys speak up in the room if you have something to say you have something you think it's kind of push the conversation the right way but a lot of it's also just internal discussion happens you know and trying to figure out you have you represent 30 players so it's your your 30 guys the way that I guess you know maybe even more than that

where we have I guess we have 40 guys who's real representing the 40 men but we have you know you have your guys you're contingent that you represent and also guys you're talking to kind of the outside and free agents and opinions that you heard kind of the greater you want to really represent how guys are doing and then kind of talk through strategy

as we get proposals and make proposals that's kind of what you do in the room is just a lot of discussing how to proceed especially as we kind of get to a point here that's been

whatever this state is is the make of break days. It's like, all right, well, how do we, how do we get closer to making something happen? Because I think the fans deserve, uh, deserve to see baseballs sooner rather than later. And that's kind of how, I think that's how our side feels, just when is that going to happen? Is there, is there an end to this week or these meetings? I get, this might be public, but is there like a breaking point?

Like, do you, did the PA and the MLB have like, you know, Friday we're not meeting, so it's today and tomorrow? Is that public and I'm missing it? No, I don't think there's a, that's, I think that's, I can tell you that I don't have a return for it yet. I mean, there's no, there's no set time. I think we're just, we're just here, you know, kind to figure it out. And whenever, whenever we either get something done or can't, you know, decide that. We've got a big break. I think that's the feel kind of dispersed.

Happer, I just opened Twitter. Were you knocking it around with Rizzo this morning? That was actually yesterday. Yesterday we hit the little white thing, and then get some running today. I'm staying down by Riz, working out with him. You know, when you have a teammate who's just a good buddy like that, and you lose them for the second half,

it's like now I got to make up my time when I can. get my big Paisano time in. You don't have to tell me, brother. And he hung up. He's gone. No, I didn't hang up yet. Can you guys hear me? Can you guys hear me?

But I do have to run. Okay. Yeah, you're good. Final question. Do you think it'd be an intimidating strategy if every player showed up in a Tony Clark look-alike beard? I think that would be really good. Can we also do the rush hour suit?

Yes. Oh. That's how you take over. I think you own the room if you have more facial hair. I think that's 1880s politics. That's exactly right. Last question. What's the spread like in there, Hap?

I got to know. I haven't gone downstairs for the big spread. Apparently there's like the actual place of food down there. But decent snacks. We got some trail mix. You know, the bag trail mix. You got a couple of those Nature Valley bars, bananas. You know, a lot of water.

I'm drinking a lot of water. Trying to stay hydrated. Smart. Everything I need. All right. Hey, thank you very much. Everyone go check out the compound with Happer, Dakota, and Shorty. Good luck, Happer.

Thanks, guys. See you back in later in the week. Yeah, awesome. John Boy Media reporter in Hap. See it. Okay. I think he's got a side gig, too. The media has been pretty,

spot on, pretty good. Because, I mean, that was a problem back in 2020. Yeah. It was like, we couldn't trust anything that was actually being reported. So it's good that we're getting, he said, you know, slight variations, but for the most part, pretty accurate reporting about what's going on.

And no insight. That was a cool way to he answered. I don't have a return flight. Yeah. That's strong. It's a good reporter. I'm here to work. Yeah.

I like that for Enhab. And where do you say Rizzo was going? I didn't, he said the Pisano thing, which makes me think Rizzo's going to be like a utility New York guy behind Matt Olson. Katie's been buying this trail mix and I hope it's not the term. That has just too many yellow raisins. The whole thing's yellow raisins. Yellow raisins?

Golden raisins. I don't know what you're calling. I don't mess with those. They're raisining the green grays. I know what you're talking about. I don't mess with those. Yeah, it's like, uh, Yeah.

Those aren't welcome in my home. Those shouldn't be welcome. Why are they yellow? So it's got like bigger golden raisins as are called. It's got like it's the trail mix has bigger, um, chocolate than Eminems. Okay. Which we like. Okay.

But then it's like probably honest 40% golden raisins and it's brutal. I told her like, hey, can we stop? Is there like something else in the trail mix that like, you like get tricked into thinking it's the other thing. No, no, no, it's just clearly.

Like the salad I've been getting recently. Sometimes I can't tell what's a cheese bite, what's a chicken bite. So I've had that situation going. So you don't know what texture you're about to get. It's been a fun game because I like both of those, but if ones are raisin out. Speaking of texture.

Topps. What were you just saying the other day? The chat wants us to save the Roman read for when passing is on. And I think that's fair. Okay. I think we. We can end it with that. Oh, I was thinking the intro it.

I think we say like, how you doing? So I thought about doing a joke intro that was like, and Jeff Passons brought to you by Roman, like ball hair. Well, let's actually just do Roman. We could do that. I just feel bad doing the actual. Okay. You feel about calling someone up and then doing an ad read before even saying hi to that?

Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah, I feel bad too. I'm a business man. I can say hi first. Well, we're not, we're doing tops right now because. because they got this Mickey Manil legacy NFT. The card being used in the NFT front and back are from an actual card in the original

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Cool fact about the card being used in the NFT. I already read that paragraph. The winner of the auction will also have the rare opportunity to have a 30 minute interview with Mickey Mantle's son's Danny and David Mantle. Auction kicks off March 1st, 1 p.m. Eastern. It's alive for three days ending at 1 p.m. on March 4th,

which is our buddy Krause's birthday. How about that? I think. We think. Any bid placed in the last 10 minutes of the auction will extend the auction by an additional 10 minutes. And a quote from the Mantles on this release, this card has been a part of our father's legacy for 70 years,

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You guys are the Tops. All right. Are we calling? Yeah, you want to call Brother Jeff? Yeah, the way it works is I have to type his number into the phone. Okay, read it aloud. Or into the laptop. I almost do that sometimes.

It's scary. Yeah, because it's tough when you're typing numbers. I feel inclined to read them aloud when I type them as well. It helps. It helps, but we're not doxing Jeff today. It's like you type the wrong number. It just reinforces you get the right number in there. Um, so

Yes, yes, yes, yes, got it. Don't say it out loud as I type it. Don't say it out loud. Don't say the number out loud as I type it. 720. Didn't we almost do that to somebody? I've almost done this a lot. No, but like we started saying someone's number on a thing once in.

I think Treve, we almost. I think we had to call him in for something. Yeah, I think Trev we almost like, or we were doing something where it showed up on the screen. No, it was the voicemail. It was like, thank you. for calling, boop,

and they said the number. Yes, that was it. That is exactly. I will tell you this, Passon's phone number is cool. Okay. It's a lot of numbers

that I like looking at. I'm just letting you know. Whoa. Isn't it? My phone number is like that. Right? Yes. All right.

So if you like cool numbers, I would just guess and dial and you're going to get Jeff at some point. Yeah. I should be calling him right now. Oh, yeah, it does.

I'm watching you live right now. Oh, we docks you. Did you give away my phone number? No, we just let the people know that it's a cool phone number. Yeah, it's a real phone number. Did you pick those numbers yourself? I did pick the numbers myself, actually. I turned down probably 25 numbers until I ended up with this one because it's a great number.

It's a really good. Jimmy had to punch it in because we're calling through his computer, and he was like, Oh, it is a good phone number. Yeah, it's a solid phone number. It is a good phone number. I feel excellent. I feel excellent about my phone number.

There are many things in life that I do not feel good about myself with. But my phone number is one of them. And another might be something you can talk to Roman about. You just got to go to get Roman. com slash talking today. Don't do this. Don't do this again. You guys have gotten more mileage and leverage out of your penis problems than anybody I've ever known.

Yeah, just $15 off your first month if you prescribed. I mean, that should be on my tombstone. You've gotten more leverage off your penis problems than anyone I know, Jake's story. We'll conclude the Roman read after the conversation. How are you? Thank you. I'm great, actually. You know, people are like, aren't you mad that baseball is jumping off a cliff?

And I'm like, yeah, like, I'm going to miss the games. But I will say from like a professional perspective, covering fights like this is fascinating to me. Like, it's really intriguing to see this. It's like succession. It's like Game of Thrones. like their power struggles and their power moves and their strategy and all these different things involved that kind of are you see them in baseball games themselves like smaller versions of it but this is playing out this is this to me like I love stuff like this aside from the

fact that the sport I love is self-immolating and slowly killing itself yeah I would play mrs. Lincoln I agree with I share that same sentiment I like learning the insides and the business stuff, but I also think it's bad for like the public to know so much of the business because the more. I don't think, I don't think that's a bad thing. Let me tell you what the problem's been to me when it comes to the public in past negotiations. I think it's the public's ignorance in the past. The public's belief that, you know, that the bosses are always right that led to major

League Baseball not being questioned on things and led to this, I don't know, this sentiment that the players were just greedy and couldn't be right. And there was, there was this moral element to it that always tended to go in favor of ownership. And I think that's flipped a little bit. I agree with that. I think that's flipped a lot. And I think the more. It's why I love doing this kind of work because the more educated, the public is, the smarter they are about understanding the issues, the better they can figure out, like, who's in the right here and who's not in the right, or just how in the right one side is and how not in the right another is. And I think that the evolution of this is going to continue with the acknowledgement that you can be on the side of a group, but that doesn't make everything they do correct. Like, that's an important distinction to make, I think, because I think there are some very pro and extremely pro-union people out there who look at the union like it can't do. anything wrong. And thus, everything major league baseball does is inherently evil and wrong.

And I think that that kind of perspective where everything is right, everything is wrong, is dangerous too. There needs to be a place where a side that you agree with can do something strategically incorrect or poor and that can have a bad outcome. And I think the more we educate people about the dynamics that are at play here, the likelyer they are, hopefully to recognize that that happy medium where these two things are not mutually exclusive can exist. Yes, I learned the hard way that if you're not 100% in favor of everything the union does, then you are anti-union.

Jimmy's canceled, which is pretty wild. Yeah, and it's welcome to being relevant, Jay. My point, my point, I'm very, I'm very, very, much pro-union, pro-player. I think anyone that's actually listened to full episodes knows that. My only counter was, my only thing that I was trying to get across, and I did in long form, was that the reason where at this point is because the owners got away with so much in the last CBA and really everyone agrees they did.

But on the flip side, the union signed that deal. And now the union is trying to make up for, the past deal that they signed. And I just don't think that like, so like there's, the hole was dug by both sides. You can't claim naivety or like, we didn't know it was that bad of a deal. I was like, well, that's, again, a little bit your fault.

I'm rooting for the union and the players to get everything that they deserve. But, you know, the hole is so big. And I just don't know if they're going to make up the ground because MLB doesn't care. They're like, we're not going to make up ground that you signed off on. Yeah. Well, and so this I think is a, I have a story that's going to be running in the next day or two. I think that sort of tries to address the universality of this whole thing. And let's look at service time manipulation, right? Because I think that's a really interesting point where anybody who has any moral compass whatsoever would say, this is wrong. Like if you agree, to a six-year reserve period, i.e., you get pre-agency after six years, except there are rules in place that allow you to leverage that six-year reserve period into what amounts to seven years. That's kind of messed up, and that might be abiding by the letter of the law, but it certainly

isn't by the spirit of the law. Well, Chris Bryant tries to agree that. right? Chris Bryant loses his grievance. The moment Chris Bryant lost his grievance, the amount of power that went into the coffers of Major League Baseball, it was already there, right? Like they were already manipulating service time. The Bryant ruling essentially gave them all that they needed. And now Major League Baseball understands you Players Association negotiated this rule that is distinctly in our favor, why shouldn't we try and leverage it as best we can? Like, that's the acknowledgement that I think needs to come from the other side, that as wrong as all of us know service-time manipulation is,

it's something that gives Major League Baseball a very, very big point to lever in these types of negotiations. And I think the union, if in that same position, would be levering. it the exact same way. Yeah, and that's, I mean, something we talk about on here a few times is that whenever they come up with this final deal and when you talk about past deals, however it ends up landing, the owners, and rightfully so to a degree, they're going to figure out how to manipulate the CBA to the best of their abilities. I mean, that's part of what makes them good business people is going through that.

But you're right, when you're talking... So are the players, though. Let's not discount the idea that the players are trying to lever the hell out of this thing, too. It's why the CBT is the issue. It's why, you know, at this point, it sure is trending like we're going to lose games. And it's going to be, I'm not going to say directly due to the CBT, but the CBT is the thing that nobody's moving on at this point. And the league's not moving because it feels like it made the last couple moves on it.

And the union's not moving because it feels like despite the league's movement, it's still a pathetic offer. And if you look at it objectively, it is. It's a bad offer right now. It's $214 million for 2022 is the best that the league can do on the CBT ceiling. We're not going to see baseball for a long time. Is that – period. You've been hinting to it in some of your tweets and articles.

Is that when your ears are – going to perk up, your ears are going to get hard, Roman. That baseball might actually be on a path to get back is when there's CBT movement. Well, as you can see on the screen right now, I have quite large ears naturally. But yes, oh, I got big ears. My children call them satellites. They're dicks. You know what they say, though. Big ears. Yeah, I don't know what they say, actually. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't need Robin. So, yeah, CBT, I think, is going to be, I think Evan Drellick might have used this in a story yesterday,

bellwether of these negotiations. And if you don't see movement on the CBT today from the league, probably not going to see movement on the CBT tomorrow from the weekend. And then that gets us Friday. And we have three days to bang out in agreement. before this deadline for Major League Baseball. And I'll be curious to see, too, how, God, I was going to say how hard or for him. I don't want to do that.

How strong is this deadline? Not strong, zero strong. Is Major League Baseball, like, if the deadline is not really a deadline, then what the hell is it worth? like if major league baseball is going to come out and cancel those phone games after that then we're talking okay it's getting a little grimy here but otherwise yeah it doesn't it's not a real deadline understand why do you yeah and if it's not then this thing is just going to keep going on uh Trevor May was on Rose Rotation great show you've been on the Rose Rotation as well great episode about you guys

on the Hall of Fame anyway Trevor May and now he was he was he was was saying that this is pure conjecture and speculation and just his thoughts, uh, that he thinks that the MLB already has a number in their head of games. They will be willing to miss and willing to play and they're just going to stall and stall until they get there. And then they know that if they get the playoffs and, you know, they're fine. Like if it's 140,

130, whatever it is, his, his, his conjecture, kind of just his thoughts or that this is, the MLB might still just be playing a game of fake negotiations here until we get to that point. Hold on. Have you said, have you said the MLB twice? I think you've said the MLB twice. The Major League Baseball. The first time I thought it was a mistake.

We're open to the MLB. We do think people get a little too harsh on it. The MLB. No, I'm going to be the pedantic one here. It's not the Major League Baseball, just like it's not the John Boy or the Jake. Ah, it is a little bit of the James.

the jake it's a little bit the jake it's not the john boy yeah uh anyway what are your thoughts on that thought process by him i think that's completely fair and i think the union has the exact same calculation all this is is just trying to figure out where they're going to land and what leverage points you can get to go in your favor right like i think the union knows at what point its players are going to be pissed off too. And at what point they're going to start clamoring. And at what point

the players are going to be missing paychecks potentially and are going to get a little antsy. And at what point families are going to start getting angry because they don't know where they're going to be. Like there are all these different data points that you can use.

But that number of games, yeah, obviously that's true. Because suddenly local television money starts paying out differently, and you have to give back. And there are a million different things swirling here. But I don't know that Major League Baseball specifically has in mind, we're going to play 130 games this year and just play it out and fill them.

I think what the league has in mind is we're going to try and get the best deal we can. and that best deal might come on February 28th and then come on March 5th. It might come on June 1st. I think the fear that I have is that not just the league, not just the players, but the entire sport is operating inside of a bubble in which it believes that the damage done by missing regular season games is going to be less than what it can gain by waiting out a deal. And I think that is a drastic miscalculation by everyone involved. I think missing games would be horrendous and I think it would just make baseball fans who already, frankly, are kind

of aggrieved in some ways where the game is gone, even angrier. Beyond that, I think it would say to the casuals to the people who are thinking about getting into the sport that this is a sport that is more concerned about what we are doing and how it affects us than you. At the same time, I do not discount the possibility. I was talking with somebody about this last night. He said essentially, you know, door number one is something that's on the league side. Door number two is something on the player side, but door number three is looking out for the fan, and they should go to door number three.

Let's not forget that sometimes, and you guys know this is businessmen too, sometimes going backward gets you in a better place going forward. And you can't discount the possibility that baseball, even if it does miss regular season games, will wind up in a better place long term. But let me tell you, the path toward there when you miss games gets a whole hell of a lot rougher than it would be otherwise. Like the reality is, boys, if there's a deal this weekend,

we are going to have an absurd free agent period coming up. We are going to have an obscene amount of trades going on. We're going to almost have forgotten about all this bullshit because of the fun. Yep. That's there. That is for the taking right now. And I hope,

I'd like to believe that the people involved, and this would be prioritizing that element of it. But if they believe that it's going to take more than that to get the game to a better place, I'm not saying I trust them. I'm just saying that that's their calculation and we're the ones, unfortunately, you have to live with it. Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said,

echoed a lot of the same sentence where we said from the start, they don't care about missing games. Both sides see it as an advantage to prove how much they care about their position. in my opinion and I think that we from the start have been looking at two sides that want to miss games to prove their willingness

well the frustrating part of it though is that in the past let's go back to 1981 the strike in 1981 happened because the league was reeling

from free agency Like, you know, Bobhausen was in charge of the Cincinnati Reds, built the big red machine. The big red machine had been broken up via free agency. You know, Don Zellet went to the Yankees, Pete Rose went to the Phillies, et cetera. And when that happened, he wanted compensation. And Marvin Miller was like, compensation, this is supposed to be a free market. Anytime you throw compensation into it, the market is no longer free. And so they struck on that issue in 19.

The player struck because the league insisted on a salary cap. And they ended up with the CBT because of it. And now that's coming back to rear its ugly head. But I don't think that the CBP is an issue that necessarily warrants losing games when both sides from their proposals have agreed on a general structure as to how it exists. Yes, the union wants a $245 million threshold. Yes, the league wants a $214 million threshold. These are not positions that need to be firm. This is not a truly, deeply fundamental disagreement on the implementation of an issue.

It's just a matter of finding a spot that both sides can live with. And they just aren't going to find that spot until one of them makes a move. And the union believes that the league needs to make a move because the league's offer stinks. and the league believes the union needs to make a move because it hasn't since the lockout began. What are the, I know vibes is a hilarious word and sometimes sucks, sometimes it's cool, but, you know, when we've gone to past winter meetings, like, you know, things get around there quick and we don't have to bring up our old winter meeting tale, Jeff, let's let bygones be bygones. We won't do that.

But I guess. I can't believe you walked in that shot. a while bygones are bygones, G. Roman. I guess what I would say is like, you know, there's usually a consensus sweeping around. Most people you talk to, whether players, owner side, media, I mean, do you think everyone has already come to grips with missing opening day and our heads down? Because if you go back a little bit, like the kind of, the consensus early on was like, oh, both sides are going to figure this out.

Like, they've got some time. Like, things are actually friendlier than. they used to be like two years ago like it we kind of mended some fences by the end of the COVID times it felt like after that things went smooth is uh is there a consensus is is everyone just prepared for the worst at this point or what else are you feeling doesn't this feel a lot like the COVID negotiations but doesn't it feel like it because we're talking about is there going to be a season what's the season going to look How many games are people willing to miss?

I mean, these are the same conversations that we had two years ago. And the lessons that could and should have been learned then have not been. And I think over time, the union's position has only strengthened in that, you know, the actions of the commissioner's office in 2020 deeply angered them. And there's been nothing really to smooth over that anger from the beginning of these negotiations. And I'm not sitting here saying that the league's job is to placate the players. It's not the league's job, as it's expressly written, is to placate 30 owners. The issue is that those 30 owners have the game's interests in mind.

And that's a big question that I've been asking. Who does the game belong to? We know the players are at the game. Anyone who argues that the laundry is the game can go piss off. The players are the game. Like if the players go away and Jimmy O'Brien and Jake Story Alley and Jeff Pass and six other Gibronies wear Yankee uniforms, we're not the Yankees. Right? like the Yankees are no we're not the Yankees don't even start it's the 26 major league quality players who are on that team or depending on the year maybe 24 25 but the players are the game but who are the stewards of the game who are the shepherds of the game

who are the ones who are the ones who have the games um the best of the game in mind. Theoretically, it should be the owners. And here's why. Because players' careers are finite, but owning a business and being part of it is something that

can be, and often is, generational. And thus, they should be looking at the game, I think, from that perspective. But who knows the game then? It's the players. And it's the players who,

I think right now are really trying to, really waging that battle internally, trying to figure out how much of what we're doing right now needs to be for us in this moment and how much of it needs to be for not just future generations of players, but for the game itself, because we've seen that people on the other side are willing to, A, lock us out and be potentially lose games and cancel games. And the truth is, as much as the league, if games are lost, is going to want to blame it on the players and on the intransigence of players, the league's the one that locked them out and the league's the one that's going to cancel games. And just as you can look back on the strike in 1994, whatever moral reasons it existed, it was a player strike and the World Series was lost because of a decision by the players. Same thing goes to the owners here. And if they try and voice blame on others, don't buy into it. I just, you know, it does take two to get a deal done. I understand that. But the second that the league locked them out, I think they put themselves in that box

where to blame the disastrous nature, as Rob Manfred said, of missing games, is going to go back on the league. I have a question. When is every CBA like a three-year deal or is that part of the CBA? Like, no, they can all be, I mean,

they can be as long or as short as they want, but generally speaking, they've been five years. Five, that's what I meant five years. My, 12 to 12 to 16, 17 to 21.

Before that, I think it was, you know, 02 to 06, I think, and then 06 to 11. My math that I do in my head, and this is where the, I don't know what opinion or what side this leads to, but the, everyone says millionaires versus billionaires, which isn't really true because 62% of players made under a million dollars last year. I think 35% made under 600 grand. So it's not really, it's not all millionaires versus billionaires because a lot of the players aren't. millionaires, the average career of MLB player right now is less than three years.

So you're talking about 2.7 year average career making a problem. And those people are probably making 400 grand a year. And that's their shelf life. So like even, you know, they're just getting over a million after three years. Oh, I think, I think 400, tie, honestly. Okay. When you're talking about when you're talking about taxes, union dues, clubhouse dues. Yeah.

So we're not. Don't get me wrong. Like it's a lot of money still, guys. It's like it's a 1% salary, but it's a 1% salary with a very finite shelf life. Yeah. So, but what I'm, what I don't,

what's hard for me is asking those players that have a three to five year shelf life to, to not earn in their window for the betterment of future players. And I understand they're a union. And that's the whole thing about being a union. But man,

there's got to be some guys right now that are like, okay, well, I just had 2020 cut short, and now I'm going to have 2022 cut short, and I worked my whole life for this window of payment, and that's, I think, the tough side of staying together. Well, I'll tell you what. It is not an insignificant part, I think, of Major League Baseball strategy to recognize that And to realize that there's a chance that when April comes around and players aren't getting paid, that there's going to be dissension in the union. I think that it's why, you know, down in the Dominican Republic, there was a meeting, it was probably a month or so ago now. And, you know, if you look at historically, the union has not had a large number of leaders from the international market, from places where you sign as international creation.

I believe right now the only player rep is Rose Rotation regular Miguel Rojas among the player reps. and you've got Francisco Lindora on the executive subcommittee who's from Puerto Rico at this meeting in the Dominican Republic they brought David Ortiz in and David Ortiz who could probably own a room

as well as anyone you'll ever meet stood in front of these players and said and I'm paraphrasing here unity above all solidarity that's how you're going to stay together they're going to try and break you.

They're going to try and pressure you. They're going to try and convince you that with this short career you have, you only have a limited amount of time to earn money. But you have to understand that we as players, the sport belongs to us. And they're going to be players long after you're here who, through your solidarity, are going to benefit. And that might mean that you make less in the short run. That might mean you make less, period.

But the reality is the game will be less better because of you. Because if the union folds right now, they're going to get absolutely shredded. I think everybody inside the Players Association knows that, and it's why from the beginning they've been preaching, not only do we have the moral position, that's correct. Not only are we right morally on service time manipulation. Not only are we right morally on tanking. Not only are we right morally on the CBT,

but we're the ones who have to look out for the game, too. And that puts a lot of pressure on players, not the fold, and they know the only way, you know, morality only takes you so far. Solidarity is what takes you to the end. And history proved that back in the 1960s and 1970s, when Marvin Miller united the Major League Baseball players around this idea that they were getting screwed, by the owners and that the owners had such a fractious relationship among one another that in the end

they ended up losing because of it. And we have yet to see that fracturing of the owners at this point, but we certainly haven't seen it among the players either. Man, I mean, a lot of life lessons in there, solidarity. I mean, you started originally talking about kind of some dichotomy stuff, like a lot of what's going on with this country right now, Jeff. I mean, what else can you give us? I feel like this is a good time for us to learn and grow. I don't know. Let's do an AMA.

What do you got? You taught you a word earlier, it seemed like? Well, I was going to, yeah, you always bring good words. I love that. Is the word you taught me that the should be in front of MLB? Because I did not learn that. No, I don't think there was any learning on your end yet. I do want to ask, you know, you mentioned something that really triggered, you know,

stewards of MLB. I kind of want to spin that question and ask you, who are some of your favorite stewards for Major League Baseball? I mean, Dave Stewart obviously stands out. Shannon Stewart was a great ball player for a while. Chris Stewart made the round. So who is your favorite steward of Major League Baseball? I'm a big Stewart-Ferchild fan. Yeah, current.

That's the only current Stewart. Yeah. And he's a Stewart with a U as opposed to. an EW. Yes, which I like. There was Christian Stewart, whose name was actually spelled Kristen, but it was pronounced Christian,

and I always appreciate people whose names are spelled differently than they're pronounced, because I look like Jeff Passon, but I'm actually Jeff Hassan. Asson. I'm actually, and he's got the same name as the chick

from the Twilight movies. Who? Kristen Stewart. Correct. How do you feel about Moose stooping? I have no feeling. Except anyone named Moose. I mean, Moose is kind of a great name.

Okay. Like, if you're named Moose, if you're named Moose, does that mean you're just large, you're large and unwieldy or your large, unwieldy and ugly? I think his was an ugly thing, just but judging up one picketting. sure I've seen of him. He managed the California Angels in 1988 for eight games, went 0 and 8, and that's maybe my favorite stew. He was born in the Bronx, five major league at bats, 0 for 5, 4 strikeouts. So whenever he got the call, he didn't answer.

You know, much like some people's penises. sorry Jeff what were you saying no no I please by all means continue uh continue talking uh

continue talking about you know it's just Roman we they sold five different sentences this pod just gotta get a minute we told them told them we got you

last night and we told Roman give us as many lines as you got yeah um they used Roman yeah moose too He wishes.

I don't want to point fingers. Yeah. He was looking for it back in the day. I mean, maybe he was called moose for a week. No. This is, we're pro moose stooping. Pro moose tubing. Yes, yes, yes.

Is there anything else you need to get off your chest, Jeff? Well, we have the, you know, the pulse of baseball fans listening to this? I don't know I listen I I was opening it up to any questions yeah you're asking me how I felt about

I mean you're asking me how I felt about guys named the Stuart and Moose is that is that really the question you wanted because I'm here I'm not coming back anytime soon I like where we got it Jeff you're not coming back oh wow okay

that threat cancel next week's show Roman's gonna be pissed Roman's pissed April Do you think we're going to get games in April? Hope so. Yeah, that's a no. And I share it.

And I'm of the same opinion. I don't seem to be good. I will say this and I know like my, here's the thing, my younger child did not care any less about baseball. So I don't think he's going to be at risk for seeing this. but I'm he does absolutely love wrestling and I'm trying to make a combination Yankees Rangers opening weekend WrestleMania trip down into the Dallas

Fort Worth area and I would love it if it could be a combo trip and not just a wrestling trip Okay, so that's hopefully we, you know, we had a half on the phone earlier and we can let him know and maybe he can bring that up in there. Yeah, no, I mean, it's like, no, I say that when I talk to people all the time. Like, I don't care about your $10 billion industry. I just care about my child. Yeah. Opening day in Dallas, Jeff, gets pretty rowdy. You know what?

like Yankees at Seeger Semyon, I don't know. Like that's, I feel like that's going to be a very interesting first weekend. This, this team that and remember, the Rangers

sucked last year and then they went out and spent a half billion dollars in a day. Maybe they, maybe they give out all their excess Joey Gallo bobbleheads and then he throws a no hitter. Okay. Okay.

That's what Klober did on Bobblehead night. Yeah. They gave bobbleheads away for the opposing pitcher, and he threw a no-hitter. Yeah, I didn't know. I had forgotten my part. Everyone's forgotten about Clover's no-hitter. No one cares about it. Yankee great.

Taylor Hearn on Texas, he's really cool. He's one of our best mates we've made doing this, so be nice to him. Be nice to him always. John Gray. Taylor-Hern player rep. Yes. And Hap. We only know player reps.

The smart ones. I was going to say It's like the entire Roe's rotation Is it not? Yeah, McGee Row Glass now

I was I was pissed when they moved it to Florida because if it was in New York I was going to go with Hap and tell everyone I was Nick Madrigal Got you and B

Nick Magical Off Roman I'm hurt All right We're going to let you go We're going to let Jeff go Go My last thing is

How many days a week Because we have You basically stumbled into this thought process and I just want to hear it for you, but how many days a week do you find yourself you stumble into a baseball conversation and you're like, God, I wish I could talk about that because it's what you just did with the Texas Rangers. I wish we were sitting here talking about like, wow, Seeger Simeon, that's awesome, what can they really do? John Gray's on that team. Does

it mean anything? But like we can't even, we can't talk about that yet. I mean, we can. Like we, I'm happy to talk all kinds of baseball with you. I'd love to talk free agency. I mean, at least we're allowed to, as opposed to like MLB network or other places that seemingly can't mention players' names right now. I would love to talk baseball. And every day I want to talk baseball, but instead, here we are on the cusp of something that hopefully, miraculously, will get resolved, but I'm not confident at this point. Okay. Same. Big article in the next couple days.

Is that what you said? Huge article. Cool. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much for joining us as always. It's up to my boss. Keep an eye.

ESPN.com. ESPN.com. Got it. ESPN.com. Thanks, Jeff. I guess we're not going to see you for a little bit. It sounded like you said that. It's not like you're taking a break from us.

No. No. It's not taking a break from you guys. It's that I feel like one thing I've learned over time is the scarcity. principle is very true. And if you had me on more often, you know, the Roman jokes wouldn't be quite the same.

Oh, we did make a, we made a voicemail line for players only. Oh, yeah. We can give that to you. If you ever want to just like, you know, say hi,

but you don't want to be, you don't want to give us the ability to say hi back. You can call our player only voicemail line and just, you know, let us know, a super cool tidbit there. Yeah,

I'm not a player. I just crush a lot. Oh, beautiful. Gonna clip that. All right, I have to read this Romanette, so I'm going to hang up on you and then do it while you're not here. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Love you, Jeff. Goodbye. Bye, boy. That conversation was brought to you by Roman. When the moment for intimacy arrives, you need to be ready. Yeah. Roman ready. Whether you've been in a relationship for years

or just getting started having the confidence that comes from preparation means you're free to enjoy the moment when the moment comes. 52% of guys aged 40 to 70 experienced some form of erectile dysfunction. Go to get Roman.com slash talking now to speak to a U.S. licensed health care professional about erectile dysfunction. Get $15 off your first month of treatment. Get Roman.com slash talking today.

And if you're prescribed, get $15 off your first month of ED treatment. Make sure you're ready to have the confidence and control this fall and be Roman ready. Thanks, Jeff. Good stuff, man. Papper, passing. Yeah, a couple of reporters on the ground. Yes.

Literally. Well, they were standing. Well, actually, he was driving. He was driving, but then he got out. He got out. I thought of something funny. I almost said it. Well, Jeff was still on the horn, but I knew it could save it.

Last night, watching TV. I watched Yukon beat Villanova. Whoops. I was going to ask. My brother was just telling me all about it. I was like, does Jake know? Sorry about you. First top 10 wins since 2014.

Yukon men's basketball. Anyways. 20 wins. season, Hurley getting ejected? Good one for us. So, Jess, my sweet Jessica, was getting some work done in the other room. She came in for the end of the Yukon game, and then I said something along the lines of like, oh, Jake's always watching sports, kind of mocking her.

And she was like, she turned it on me, and she goes, oh, no, let's, what else is on? What else is on? Because I had the guide up, and there was pro pulling on, which, which is, is tractor pulling like races. So she's like, no, let's watch sports. Put that on. Put that on. So I put that on.

We had a laugh. If you're into that, knock yourself out. Congrats. And then she goes, okay, good, good. What's on MLB Network? And I was like, because they were showing MLB Tonight or one of their shows. Top 10. And they're recording one show a day and playing it on repeat.

So it's like Jason Stark on there, my king. Ridiculous. Yes. Love Jason Sark. The topic they were talking about because they can't talk about players, and I was so happy to relay this to Jess. They were talking about how banning this shift has affected minor league baseball. Oh, how has it? I only got to listen to bits and piece of it,

but I explained to Jess what that was, and her face was, like, horrified. She's like, wait, there's people that care about that. I'm very incredibly interested in the results of that. I don't think you would be. My guy Jason was trying to hype it up as much as he can. He's like, you know, he's like... What is it? Because I want them to be good.

He said you'd think the contact guys would be affected more, which isn't true, but the guys that are affected more are like the Joey Gallows and the Deadpole hitter. So it was tough. I mean, they're hunting. They're hunting. They can't talk about any baseball players,

so I feel pretty rough for any of that crew, right now. Well, they chose to do that. They, I mean, not like Stark didn't, but MLB chose to do that. No, that's why Jason Stark is what I'm talking about. Any of the guys that have to come in and. Yes. Well, I am interested.

I hope the shift helped more balls in play. Well, what would it affect the contact guys? The contact guys beat the shift. He was trying to make a segment out of, like they were trying to make that conversation as long as possible. Okay. All right. Well, that's the show.

We're done. Sounds like me and Passon share the same sentiment. Yeah, he didn't fully say that, but you were trying to hook him on as hard as possible. No, he did. He said, unless a miracle happens, which, I mean, you've got to be able to read between the lines a little bit there.

A little bit. Definitely is pretty negative. He chose to say what he wanted to say. Yeah, because he got to tell the line, because there's a lot of stockp on his words, but I'll speak for him. He thinks they're going to miss games. I'll speak for Jeff Passon.

I'm hot. I'm so hot. Syracuse. Syracuse. I don't need Roman, but send me some.