Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 462 | The Ohtani Rule + Runner on Second is Back

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

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Hello and welcome to talking baseball, where we are going to go over some of the new rules that we just found out about yesterday, game changers. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. My name is Jimmy. Sit next to me is Jake in California. We got Trevor Plute and Behind the Dish producer B, BD. Brought to you by Seat Geek. It's March 23rd. We are two and a half weeks away from open.

opening day spring training games have started free agency and trades have all but come to a stop but we do get some interesting talking points late last night they announced that the cba that got signed comes with some new rules so we'll be discussing that today jake you look very nice how are you james trevor davis wimbledon uh family members friends uh peter Here's equals colleagues, someone you saw on the train that gave you a look that said, I don't know, I've been through a lot. I hope you're having a good day. Hope you're having a good day today.

Emotional couple days, a couple weeks, feeling it a little bit. We had our cool yes news come out today. Thanks for everyone that was supportive of that. We got some baseball rules. Not all great, but we got some baseball rules. We'll talk about that. And yeah, Wednesday, March 23rd, we're basically two weeks out from opening day on the couches

in the live stream lounge. Trevor Plouffe probably sipping a medello, if I know my guy. Watching the Yankees and win. Yankees and win. That's where I'm. Matt. Trev, how are you? I'm going to start out being real sappy right now. I know we had some exciting news come out today and I just want to tell you guys I'm very proud of you and all the

work that you've put in and to be a part of it and to see kind of where we're going is something special. I'm sure you guys will talk about a lot more on talking yanks, but the Yes Network thing is really cool, a really good reception by a lot of people out there on the interwebs. I'm just excited, man. I'm happy for you guys. Baseball is almost here. Will I be in New York sipping a deli watching the Yankees either win or lose? Yes. The answer is yes. So I'm not that excited to talk about the stuff today. I got to be honest with you because I don't like it. But I guess we'll get into that a little more. James, how you doing? I'm interested to hear what you don't like. I think there's some good things and some bad things. But yeah, the yes, the yes news is great.

And as always, and Jake and I were just talking to Z-Man, who was doing a little behind-the-scenes vlog in the office. Those come out every Friday on John Boy, Jake TV. Emotional. I'm always emotional. I grew up watching Joe Torre do post-game press conferences after winning the World Series. And he just cries eyes out. My mom would say, see, Jim, real men cry.

It's true. That's not what's going on for me today. Maybe you should just do a show about you crying on the Yes Network. Just half an hour, you're just crying. I've got it. some messy stuff going on. My brain's all fucked up from Arizona and Vegas. I was crying watching college basketball last night.

I'm in a bad place. So if you see me get messy on this episode, it's... BPD, post-surgery, everyone's emotional. Wow. Jake, you look nice. I mean, I usually don't tell you that. Yeah, we got to get dressed up tonight. Yeah.

Jimmy negotiated a hard bargain, though. Yeah. No, I wasn't wearing a suit. So we're wearing button downs. Oh, so you got to wear something like that. This is the stuff I don't know about. You got to be looking shark now? I'm curious what you go with, James.

Like the same exact thing. We have to dress similar. And I said, I can't wear a suit. They initially were like, oh, you can wear a suit. And I had to call them up and I'm like, hey, look, I'm not going to wear a suit, though. Yeah, that ruins the whole vibe. I got to be honest with you. My dad is like a big suit person.

Like my dad, like he wears it. You wore a suit every day to work, blah, blah, blah, blah. And when I told him that they wanted us to wear a suit on yes, my dad was, that was when I realized, oh, I can't do this. Because my dad was like, Jim, you can't wear a suit. Like that is, you'd be a sellout. And like my own dad calling me like that. I was like, I mean, I agree with Papa James right there. I did too.

And then my sister and everyone in my life was like, if I see you on a suit and yes, network, like I will, I'm done. So I had to let him know. It's like, hey, sorry. I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but I cannot wear a suit. And they said, fine. this. Yeah. Can you be one of those guys that's like has a thing? You know, like Kenny's got the bow tie. Craig Sager had the crazy suits. There's the guy Don Cherry. Is he the NHL guy that wears crazy stuff? Like can I get you kind of in that realm? Like buttoned up shirt, but maybe it's got like

silly patterns or something. Like now, do you have a signature look with that? H hoodie and a hat. Well, I know your signature look, but you can't wear, are you going to be able to wear that? No, I told him I would, would like not do that. I'm going to look how Jake looks right now. I have it, have it in the office. Shoes, pants, and a shirt. Wasn't going to wear it all day. Let's talk about the new rules brought to you by the Top's Bunt app,

the official digital trading card of Major League Baseball. It's back for the 2022 season. New and returning users can get their hands on four new starter sets, plus unique chance to collect top Series 1 baseball cards in the app. Collectors can earn Series 1 cards by completing various tasks throughout the in-app event. For more info, download the free top. Bunt app by clicking the link in the description or visiting the app store or Google Play. So the new rules are out.

I guess we can do like one at a time here. And you guys don't like some of them. And I'm guessing we all agree because we've talked about it. They brought the ghost runner back in the 10th inning. So there will be no real exciting, extra inning walkoffs. And it goes back to a sack button sack fly competition. Um, yeah, I'm, Trev, I mean, do you have any birdies on the player's side? The players put this back in the union.

So it wasn't there. Are they just not creative enough? Did they just not have like the time to think of something better? Or how come no one's advocating to do it in the 11th or the 12th? Like I feel like the general consensus is don't do it right away. And I'm all for shortening games. I don't need a 16. game. But it just seems like obvious to like let's have a clean 10th runner on first in the 11th

runner on first and second or fucking base is loaded in the 12th. I don't care. But this stinks. It's the worst way to go about getting to the end goal, which I think we all agree we're fine with the end goal. I, I have not talked to any birdies about this, you know, getting it put back in. but I will say the fastest thing, fastest way to get the players association to agree on something is to say, hey, like, we think this is going to keep the players healthy. and that's kind of what they've been saying. Like we had a shorter spring training. Guys need more time to ramp up, which I don't think they do. Max Scherzer's already throwing 72 pitches.

Like, what are we doing here? That's what they're saying. This is going to stop some marathon games, make sure we don't blow any guys out. But what I don't get is they're expanding the roster to 28 in April. I believe I read that there's no limitations on how many pitchers you can have. Why do we need this rule? And it's not just for April. This rule is going all through 2022.

If they said, hey, in April we're going to do this, May 1st, boom, back to regular baseball. I'd be like, okay, you're strictly looking out for the teams and the players. I get it. I don't like this rule at all. We've talked a bunch about what we want to do. I think we're all in agreeance. Yeah, 10th and 11th ending. Let's go regular baseball.

Then 12th, if you want to get a little silly with it and do the ghost runner, sure, I prefer something different. I just don't like it. I just, I think regular baseball needs to be played, especially if you're expanding the rosters like this. There's no reason. There's how many games go into the 16th inning each year? No, I did the stats last year and it was like 80% of extra inning games end before the 12th inning, uh,

in the 10th or the 11th. So yeah, this is what you don't like this. Does work. We, we, we know that. Like it does end the game quicker than doing regular baseball. in extra innings.

So sure, I get it, I guess, that you can put that out there, but I'm just not a fan of it. I don't like it. Yeah, it was kind of interesting seeing a lot of the Big J. journalists actually kind of came back. I think it's because there's so much momentum going the other way that a lot of the Big J journalists were like, it's really not that bad.

Like, it adds a level of entertainment, and it's there to wrap up the game and prevent injuries, which at the end of the day, that's why the MLBPA is sold on it to wrap up the game and end injuries. Pretty much every player we talk to really doesn't care because, you know, it's one of those things that us, the fan kind of hates to actually think about, but guys are at their job and they want to go home to their family. So if it gets them one step closer to getting home at 11.30 a.m. than 1 a.m., guys do like that.

The problem is, which Jimmy touched upon, it's a lack of creativity, and it's almost, if we're going to do this, let's go one way or the other. Keep it normal baseball, because that's the way baseball's been played, and let's run it, and we'll get a couple 15 inning games, and guess what? Real baseball fans are going to enjoy them. A couple people are going to have sleepy next days. That's kind of how it goes. Or, like, I'm team gimmick at this point.

I know me and Jamalama Ding Dong talked about when we, we went, when we went to the hockey game a month or two ago and they had the shootout at the end of the game, if you gave me, you get to make whatever lineup you want in extra innings. If you gave me, hell, even some sort of swing off, you know, you'd have to get me some rules and we'd have to actually talk about that. But guess what? It would be electric. If I told you, and this is where Jim normally goes to, like,

Has anyone ever gone to watch a game in extra innings because the runner's on second? No. But if I told you a hockey game was in a shootout, would you go over and watch it? Hell yeah. If I told you that the Yankees Red Sox were in the 10th, so the Yankees are going to set their lineup with Rizzo Judge Stanton, and the Red Sox are going to set their lineup. Story Bogatz Devis.

Like, you'd go click over to that. Or if you gave me even a home run derby swing off. And I know there's some baseball purists that are listening to this. They're saying, dude, shut up. Like a home run swing off? That's not how baseball games get decided. But it's extra innings. And we're looking for entertainment and we want to get, you know,

we want to wrap this up. And it does become a player health thing to a degree. So with all that being said, let's just get a better solution. I'm fine with wrapping up games. but just a runner on second. He. A lot of hockey fans saw what I said about the, because I tweeted it and I saw a lot of hockey fans.

They're like, the one likes the shootout. I'm like, we're not talking about fans of the sport. We're trying to get kids and new kids and new fans around. Like, no one that listens to this podcast is going to be excited about that. No one that watches every single hockey game

likes the overtime or the shootout. Penalty kicks for soccer. I'm a soccer guy. That sucks. Yes. But people perk up. Regular season game? It's a regular season game.

That's the thing is like even football, most traditional game that we got in the world has a penalty. It takes a shootout. They've adopted it. So, you know, I don't love like to swing off the home run derby. That's like not my thing whatsoever. But I agree with the lack of creativity. There's someone in the chat that just says,

we should just do the point system and go with ties. I don't even, I kind of don't mind that either. Well, you'd have to go like after the 12th or 13th or something. Like if you were like clean 10th, the 11th, there's a runner on first,

the 12th, there's a runner on first and second, 13th base is loaded, tie after that. Or maybe even, maybe even tie after the 12th and then a point system. I mean,

you never get people. How is baseball not changed at all? I mean, we all understand why, because it is the, oldest sport. The gameplay has changed drastically. Like when you go to a game and you watch it,

it's changed drastically. But like some of the, to try and get it back or whatever is not, I don't know. We can erase this point. An interesting thing is the Mariners were fantastic in this version of extra innings last year. I think they were like 14 and 7.

At one point, I think they were like 10 and 0 in extra innings. Some teams understood how to play it. I had some people say that people didn't actually bunt, but then the numbers, someone like put the numbers of buntz in extras versus bunts and it was like way up. So it is. I mean, if my team is the Yankees were trying to just hit home runs

and extras still and Jake and I were getting frustrated because if your team is in this extra inning game, they better bunt that run over and then have two chances to score or a chance to score on an out. Otherwise, you're not playing the game right. Every team that kind of accepted what it is, it fared a lot better. I will say there is, I do get excited with the runner on second, only if the visiting team doesn't score.

Because then I like to see what do you do? Like, are you 100% going to bunt in the next, and the next bottom half of the inning? Or do you have your bangers up who can't bun, who you have no idea how to because guys don't know how to do that anymore? And you just have to swing. I like seeing that. That's pretty much the only thing I like about the runner on second

is just to see how the home team strategizes if the visiting team doesn't score. I don't know why. There are good things about it. There are good things about it, but I would prefer the clean two extra innings and then going into it. I think that's my preference,

but who am I? I have no idea why the away team doesn't walk the first batter. I think we saw it done once or twice. I hope that starts happening. I just have no idea why they don't do that. if it's a tie game, the run means nothing. The guy on second wins the game. So putting a runner on first means nothing.

And it puts the double play in order, which could mean a lot. So I don't understand we didn't see that utilized at all. I'm hoping with another year we see some teams. I tweeted at time, I said, give me why teams aren't doing this. And no one had reasons for why you wouldn't do it.

Unless there's a better hitter on deck. Yeah, yeah. that's the only one, but for the most part, like, put the double play in order. The run means nothing. Even mix this in with the hit whoever you want. Like, that would be awesome, man. You know, I'll go Yankee fan on you. Say, you know, tied game to going extras and Aaron Judge strikes out to send the game

to extra innings. And then Aaron Judge is back up the next inning, maybe facing the same guy after he just struck him out. Like stuff like that would be super cool. So I don't know, just open up the creativity. I mean, what percentage of games themselves go to extras during a year? Do we have that stat? You know, we're not talking about a massive chunk of games.

That, you know, let's be a little quirky and fun baseball. Maybe it's not home run derby. I understand how much that can hurt. But let's get a little weird. Let's open it up. Let's get weird. Get the stars more. shine. I think that's the best thing that we've come up with is two regular

innings and then start your lineup wherever you want to start your lineup. You can put a runner on a second. I don't care. I just want to see your guy guys have a chance. And that's what we'll draw people in. If you're going to get another bad of Mike Trout, if you're another bad of Otani or Tatis or Judge, like that's what we'll draw people in, in my opinion, which is a very heavy and weightful opinion. It's a good opinion. That's a word. It's not a word.

What are the other rule changes? There's the Otani rule, which we named the episode. Maybe we push that. There's also 28-man rosters in April, Trev. Huge for a bunch of pitchers that are going to accrue service time now for a month. Yeah, or pitchers. I think mostly it's going to be pitchers because the team, are like chomping at the bits.

It'd be like, oh, I can I can really match up even better now because there are limitations with when there's not 28 guys, when there's only 26. So I think they'll mostly be pitchers. You're right, James. Maybe a few top prospects get called up. Probably not, though, because we're talking about service time. Yeah, absolutely not.

It's going to be non-raster invites. They're going to make the team and then get cut, which actually might be worse for them because, or better. You know, actually I don't think that's the case, James,

because they'll still have to have a 40-man spot. So unless they expand the 40-man roster as well, which I don't think was in the rule change. So you have to put guys on the 60-day DL

to create a spot on the 40-man. I think it's mostly going to be pitchers. Maybe like a speed guy, like a pinch runner type. It'll be interesting to see how teams utilize the extra two spots. I think it's mostly just going to be pitchers,

though. Mostly going to be pitchers. And, And a reminder of one of the new rules is that it's a 15-day IL minimum for pitchers now. So you're not going to get like you put, you add two pitchers, you use them in the first series, and then Phantom or send them down. I don't think the carousel will happen. I think two pitchers are just going to ride out of April.

Yeah, I mean, you could still send guys up and down type deal. I'm sure we'll see some of it. And hey, maybe we'll get some cool stories from it. a couple guys will make teams and they'll just do the MLB survival thing. They'll, you know, a couple injuries in the bullpen. They have a good year and they turn those two extra spots into a full season of MLB. That'd be great. It's going to be pitchers.

And it's okay. Like I think there's a little bit of baseball. Like I would love to see the bench utilize more. I think we all would, whether it's speed, defense, better hitting. However, benches used to be used. Peter Moyland, when we were in Arizona, he went to Royals camp, and they were talking about it a little bit. He's talking to the Royals brass.

And they were like, and Peter was pissed. He was legitimately mad that there weren't, and they didn't think there were going to be more roster spots, because spring training is for pitchers. This is a shorter spring training. Trev, I know. They get a little soft, but what does it come back to? Players' health, players injuries.

Like, are we willing to keep the rules same for April and let a couple more pitchers get hurt? That's a little fucked up. How hurt are they getting? Trevor Ploof, you have your hand raised, you have a question. What have they been doing all offseason? All you got to do is throw. Yeah.

Like, you should be ready to go. Max Scherzer through 72 pitches his first spring training start. Let's freaking go, pitchers. I'm sick of hearing this, that we need time to ramp it up. It's different game speed. How many games do you need? Blev. throwing his warmups in the hitters

Blev throwing his warmups in the warehouse sick of it you know 70 miles per hour 7 hours hour as soon as that game started Blev throwing his pitches in the game 82 miles per hour It's had adrenaline I understand there's games speed I just don't know how much you need

We've always been clamoring for shorter spring trains We're getting one now we're acting like it's the devil And we need to make rules about it Getting two extra roster spots No I mean I'm being facetious with the game speed stuff because Rose asked Gialito and he was like, no, we're all good. I threw five innings of my first sim and I'm going to throw,

or he threw three innings and first Sam. He's thrown five. He said that all the White Sox are stretched out. I mean, it's a five-and-fly league anyway. So, you know, for like three of your five starters, every team is basically doing five-and-fly. Anyway, it used to be like April was five-and-fly season. I was like the whole season is.

I don't think it's for the starting pitching at all. I think it's for the relief pitchers. I think the relievers are going to get, they just get used more earlier in the year. Guys, guys are going to get burnt out, and then what are we doing? We're asking relievers the first week in the season to pitch that third day,

which they just don't do anymore. Is it because they're soft, maybe? Is it because there's some science behind it? Yeah. Is that why Peter Moyland can't lift his arm? That's why he had to bring BBD in his room every morning? I don't know. I don't know.

Whatever. You guys know how I feel. I've expressed my opinion. I don't know what else we're going to talk about now. I'll taste other dudes. Yeah, the Otani rule brought to you by Manscaped. You got to be clean. Listen to the copy of Manscape has right now. Splish Splash, I was taking a bath and I noticed I have beautiful balls. Oh my God. I got halfway through at the last show. Manscaped is a global leader and below the waist hygiene They're turning men shower They're turning men's shower dreams

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All right, the Otani rule exists now. Basically, if your starting pitcher is also hitting, and then he stops pitching, he can now go to the DH spot. Otani rule. Could be anyone, right? Could be. Could be anyone.

I think they're calling it the Otani rule. I love it. This is good. I mean, Otani is one of the most exciting things baseball. And if any other player can do this, they will also be a very exciting watch in baseball. So by the nature of the way the rules were, once the pitcher's out, he's done, you would lose his bat. And that right now, some people might be oddly mad that it's just an exception for Otani. But this is in favor of entertainment and keeping good players on the field. Jake has his hand.

The first question from me. Yes. If you are an AL West team, not the Angels, can you be a little pissy? Sure. I guess that's where my brain jumped. Like, because it is good. You're right. Like the baseball should totally adapt and put Otani out there as much as possible in any future Otanis. But I guess if I was a Mariners fans, I'd be like, come on.

Now, Tom Ace in the chat says, why apply this BS rule to every position, which that's an interesting second conversation. I'll let Trev give his initial reactions. I kind of want to dive down that arena of thought. I'm going to shock you guys right now. You don't like it. I am going to give MLB credit for a job well done on this, actually being proactive, wanting their stars to be on the big stage shining.

It usually takes a long time for MLB to figure things out, but I think they knew this was of utmost importance to keep their biggest international star in the game. So they quickly did this. It makes a ton of sense. You know, we always talk about is Otani going to pave the way for other two-way players? And people want to fantasize and say,

yeah, man, there's going to be a bunch of two-way guys. And this rules for the... There ain't nobody coming up that's even freaking close to doing it. And I would venture out to say, with the next five to 10 years, we probably won't even see another one. It's going to take longer than that.

If ever, because it is so freaking hard to do what he is doing. And we've said that on this show, but I think people need to just like every once in a while, take a step back, get some perspective on exactly what Shohei Otani did last year. 46 homers, 100 RBIs with a 3.1 ERA. This guy, this is something we're probably not going to see again,

maybe ever. I know people can fantasize about it, but it's just too hard. I've been trying to think of loopholes, which is another thing I want to do. But I'm kind of stuck on this point. Why not? Why not just allow every position to do this? Like, why not if a guy is in right field or left field and I don't know, something comes up, like he tweaks something a tiny bit?

He's like, I can still hit, though. Why not be able to just, why not? Why not just make the DH? And I'm genuinely asking, like, if there's obvious negatives, let me know. Why can't the DH now that it is universal be treated just like another position? Like, they'd stay in the same batting order, but okay, stands the H and judges in the right field. Why can't you just switch them defensively like you could left field and right field or first base in right field? genuine question.

Is there a nay, it would just be too much for people to understand? The way the rule stands right now, and because this is new, it's universal. I don't know if they've changed anything. Can you change your DH? Like, can you pinch hit for your DH another DH? Yeah, yeah, you can pinch hit a DH for a DH. But if a player, if the right fielder goes to DH,

then you lose your DH. So, yeah, I mean, it's, or I agree with you, James. It's just another position. All the word is just is weird. We have to check the chat. I know we watch a lot of ale baseball, but often you lose the DH. Yeah. Our teams would.

I don't know. I mean, I, it's if the DH goes to a new position, then you lose the DH. So say Gary Sanchez is DHing and then the catcher gets hurt. now he goes to catcher, well, now the pitcher has to hit. Yes. But why not change it so it's just... Twins, Gary Sanchez. Twins Gary Sanchez with Twins Sunny Gray,

uh, battery of the past. Why not just make it another position? I'm genuinely asking if there is a negative. If the chat has one. Yeah. Rules, rules experts reach out. I guess, I guess what becomes interesting there is the, uh, you know, you start thinking about teams abusing it. I'm picturing the race.

resting guys every other inning with their, you'd put your most versatile guy at DH and then you rest your left field or one inning. Like it'd become a rest thing, right? Well, I'm thinking of like, I'm thinking if the, if the DH is up, the DH makes the last out. And then the pitcher comes out of the game. And now you just put the pitcher at DH.

So by the time that spot and the order comes up, you can pinch. You can pinch hit the person that fits that at bat the best. Do you need a bunt? Do you need a slugger? And you just don't have to fill that spot in the batting order yet. You just let the pitcher hold it idle for a little bit. There could be situations like that.

Some team will, and the race, will find a way to manipulate this a little bit. And Joe Madden will too. I mean, Joe Madden has the guy for the rule on his team. It's going to be interesting to see some quirky stuff that he comes up. Because mind you, and tell me if I'm wrong about it. this. Madden is the guy that kind of invented the first and third

bunt play that everybody uses now. Do you know what I'm talking about? The first and third bun play? You never see that? You got to run on first and third. They just bunt. And it's like almost impossible to defend. Because you got to bring your guys in and the runner can just go to

second base. You have to like leave your first baseman kind of back there. It's a I think Madden did that. This guy is, you know, smart dude. He thinks a lot about this. I'm sure he's in he's racking his brain right now. How can we exploit this? What advantage do I have? Because like Jake said, we're the only team in baseball that this rule applies to. I think I'm in favor again, until I get another someone to tell me why it wouldn't be good. Just make the DH a position that you

can go in and out of. Once the guy's out of the game, he's out of the game, but you can just defensively change it around if you need to or it benefits you instead of having tight rules. I guess that's the only thing that I think you were stumbling into is if you start doing that with pitchers. Like if you have a pitcher in your DH spot, could you just put them in the pitcher spot and start switching them? So like if you have a left-handed pitcher in your DH spot,

you had a right-handed pitcher on the mound, the right-handed pitcher gets a right-y out, lefty comes up. No, it's a three-batter minimum. What if he's already faced three-batters? The lefty would have to. to face three batters. The lefty would have to face three batters, yeah.

But then he could face three batters and then the right he could come back in. My brain hurts. You guys need to stop. I'm just saying, I mean, this is what teams do. You get rules and you try to abuse them. That's a good. That's a good. Then the righty would be able to come back in.

Because instead of like putting the lefty to left field, you would just put him the D.H. You'd sit on the bench for three at bats and then come back in. So maybe without, maybe pitchers can never do it. But other players in the field. But this was kind of made for a pitcher. So I don't know.

Yeah, interesting. Well, that is possible right now. Not for D. Pitcher can go to, Otoni can go to D.H, but he can't return to the mount. I'm sure that's the rule. Yes. Okay.

Like teams are allowed to put your picture. Who's on first? Do we not know baseball anymore? Because that whole conversation I don't think I do. Question myself about like what I know about the game of baseball. I followed it well. And Jake had a good counter.

I still think if you can't reenter the mound, like that would be the only rule. Like maybe that's the only rule I need. You can't, a pitcher can't come off the mound, go to the DH and then reenter as a pitcher, the mound. But I don't understand why you have to risk losing the DH if the DH now goes to the field. And that, like, that's a bad strategy

that doesn't add a fun element to the game or anything like that. Yeah. people are saying maybe Lorenzen is going to try this too no way I don't see that happening at all okay like maybe like a gimmick thing one day but I don't think Joe Madden's into gimmicks he's got to win all the games well he is into gimmicks

you're like clubhouse gimmicks but imagine if you're like a hitter and like all of a sudden Michael Lorenzen it's like dude no I get it show Hey Otani I get it Lorenzen has like good numbers let's start calling guys baseball players trust. 46 pumps and a hundred ribbies, I understand, but like

I just don't see it happen. If when McKay, I don't think, if someone mentioned Adam McKay with the race, I don't think he's doing two-way stuff anymore. Brandon McKay. He's been hurt for a little bit. Director, Will Ferrell's director, and how does all those bad movies where there's always fourth wall, great, and it's all stupid.

Personality. Okay. Shots fire. Yeah, I'd love to watch, like your show. Yeah, I hate Adam McKay movies, the new ones. They stink. 7-10 OPS. Like if a good movie was edited by a high schooler. For Michael Lorenzen. Christian Bell killed himself for that role.

Treve, basically the thing for me is you're right. We don't know the timeline at all. I hope this encourages the best athletes to be allowed to hit and pitch. I know we've talked about it before, but like, hey, you know, Chris Rose keeps talking about it on the Blitzball battle. Go check out the last episode. Treve looks good. Is the, like, I think if,

the Minnesota twins let you to weigh it up. Like Trevor Plouf could have been the third baseman and also got you in out or two. You know, he could have had 20 relief appearances through the years. And if we can have guys like the Lorenzans, McKays, and Plouf's, not everyone, actually nobody's going to be Otani.

Those stats last year are like messed up. Like they don't make sense. He's a once in a lifetime guy. But there should be a middle tier of like two-way guys that can play some baseball for you and get on the bump. Why? Because they're athletes. Why not? You're talking some mediocre, like, you're talking about me.

Okay, was I a good pitcher in high school? Sure. I get to the minor leagues. I might not be a very good pitcher. And to do it, just to do it doesn't make sense. You have to do it if it gives you your team an advantage. None of these guys are going to hit the way a hitter can or give you a good at bat the way a hitter can. Maybe every once in a while they can,

you might pump a home He would have said that about a 14-year-old Otani too, you know? Like, let's give guys a chance. We all knew this guy could do both. It's if he could do it and stay healthy. That's the only thing we talked about at O'Oton. Scouts didn't know he was going to be able to do it

before he came overseas. Some scouts are stupid. That's what I'm saying. More guys are going to be given the opportunity to do this in the minors now. And then maybe like another one comes about 100% decade.

I don't think we're going to get flooded this year with No, active players. We will see quite a few of these happen in the minor leagues. We're going to get stories. Oh, the next Otani here is what he's doing in the low A league. But bro,

as you move up the ladder, I just feel like we're taking it away from what Shohei has done. This is not going to be a regular occurrence. There is just no chance in hell because it's too hard. He was also like a gold glove. He looks easy. He's a freak. He's a freak.

He's a freak of all freaks. But Trev, if you could have done what you did at third base during those prime twin years and then also, I don't know, give 25 innings out of the pen

through the season, you could get a couple more, get a couple more, that's my point. Get a couple more mill in your pocket. I'm saying there, give me some more millions. I love that.

Great, let's do that. Yes. But, yes. Six things in the future. In the future. There might be more people doing. You had groomed you out of Crespi instead of making

you a big old meathead at third base. The only thing I can see happening, maybe. Maybe. And it's going to have to be really specialized in my opinion. It's going to be like a guy that DHS and maybe like a reliever. Like so you could, because you need to focus on these things.

Like a guy needs to focus on being able to hit. I don't think we're going to see a starting pitcher that can also hit the way he does. Maybe we're going to get some guys that have just absolute firearms to throw 100. But they don't have to be. be Otani to do it. Like that's a high bar. That's like saying like, you know, in order to be the center field or the angels, you have to be trout. It's the highest bar. Like, and, and he broke the ice. He broke down the wall. Some people in the next decade might scurry through that can

somewhat do it. That can be, you know, average. Or like really good at one and average at the other. Alex Redugo. Alex Redugo on the Chris Rose rotation. He was similar to you. Like he was a bigger pitching prospect than he was a hitter coming out. he became this, you know, really good outfielder. Like if Verdugo was trained along the way to be a lefty reliever. Well, Kenley throws, you know, catches an inning, then goes to the mountain pitches an inning. Let's do it.

Big boy. I mean, Kenny was a catcher in the World Baseball Classic. Like, he got pretty high up there. I was part of this play. So this is where I could see it may be happening in the future. 16th inning comes along. Everyone knows.

I took Kike Hernandez up top for my last ever home run in the show. I can see maybe something like that where it's like, dude, we have this guy. He can throw a little bit. Let's get him out there for any. It's like a position player pitching plus. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I was like, this guy can actually maybe get some out.

It's like we don't want to waste our good pitchers anymore because like they're hurt or not they're hurt. They're just tired. Like, okay, hey, don't go out there and hump the air like Kike did. like let's go and try to get some guys out. Like maybe I see that. I just, I don't think this,

like if we're saying, oh, he can be like just kind of average. Like, I don't know, man. Maybe, maybe, maybe you're right that I'm just like

holding it to such a high standard because of what Shohei did. But I think the talk of like two-way players is, is rushed because it's just too hard. I'd like to see a guy give a chance, be given a chance to do it and be, not have to be, a stud on both sides of the ball for it to be worthwhile.

You know? Like, when would you pitch that guy? So, do you think it'd be more advantageous? Like, if you're saying that, I think you'd have to be like a better pitcher and then like, give you a decent bat maybe,

like a, has some power. No, like if, if like, you're like, you're like, you're like,

we're down by four and need two innings, but you just need to get six outs before you hurt yourself is also your backup catcher. Like, that's a role that if a guy can do that, teams are going to use because it's two spots taken up by one guy. We just, we just added two spots on the roster for more pitchers. Yeah.

So, you know, if your backup shortstop can also get you two slop innings or your, whatever it is, you know, maybe your stud reliever can go, uh, also be your backup catch. I don't know. There's a, there's a, there's a path where it, if it was out there, teams would do it. I think we've kind of stumbled into the same place you and I

about slop innings like maybe you have a guy in the roster that can eat up with some slop endings but then like does this guy have to throw bullpins all year long just to be ready for slop endings do you know what I'm saying?

What else are they doing? What else are they doing? I would love to throw bullpen that's like you love a good bullpen seen it yeah I don't know it's gonna be I hope there is I'm not saying that I don't want this to happen

I surely would love more two-way players in MLB, but I just don't think it's, I don't think it's like going to happen as quickly or as frequently as people are going to think it is. No, I mean, I definitely think it'd be a very rare. That's so cool, though, man. Like, I love that. I love the whole, like, athlete thing. Like, I love, like, think about the NFL, like, how many two-way guys have been in the NFL? Don't. Devin Hester for a little bit.

You have to be a freak to a degree. I think it gets a little different. Because, you know, it could also be like, it's like playing multiple positions to a degree. I don't know. I guess the thing is we never know. American baseball has cut off that route for everyone except like Brooks Kishnik.

Shout out. Real baseball fans. know. But yeah, they haven't even offered it. I guess that's what I'm saying. Offer it and let's find out. Yeah, you know what? You're totally right. In youth baseball right now in the high school level, straight up POs, that's what they call themselves. Yeah. Pitchers only. It is disgusting to hear that term when you are playing amateur baseball. Do not tell me you're a P.O. Do not tell me your P. Guys say that. Guys will say that about themselves. Dan Rourke says that about himself.

He heard that about when he's 15. You go to these high school games and these guys, I'm a P.O. I'm what position you put a P.O. I'm like, what does that mean? You're a pitcher only. Hey, if we have any amateur or high school baseball players listening to this episode right now, never, ever utter the words to another human. I'm a P.O. You at that age should be very embarrassed to utter those and not proud of it.

But here's a thing. It's not even them. They're coaches. Yeah, but the coaches are specializing. Yeah, but those coaches are, are wrong.

And they're, they're making fools out of their kids. And it's the coaches, it's the parent saying, I only want my kid to pitch. If you're not angered by that or like a little pissed off,

like what the fuck? I can play left field better than Tommy. You're, that's a bad look. Dude, like, that's gross. I didn't know that existed.

Yeah. So we're like, we're throttling it at the youth day. but celebrating it in MLB. Exactly. And that's another reason why I'm like, this is just not going to work because there's already,

there's too much specialization in youth sports as it is. Here's my advice to every parent out there, and if you're a kid listening to this, play all the sports, man. Play as many sports as you can. Do not specialize in one sport. Not until, shoot, college, I guess. And maybe like your couple years, like end of high school.

And play whiffleball And play pond hockey And play everything Fucking flag football Youth coaches that are like Try to limit that are Crazy And I know there's a lot of

A lot of MLB players Really came out on the whiffleball stuff I think it was like Euculus Coney There's a lot of them You guys like what Why wouldn't you play whiffel ball Like you're supposed to be having fun

And like It's a great And same with pond hockey But like my hockey coach Like you guys can't play pawn hockey and we're like, what? We can't play the thing we do more in our free time? So, so.

Bat to ball skills are, can be shot up if you're playing wiffle ball a lot. Because think about how the ball moves and you have to get your barrel to it. Like it, all of that stuff comes into play. And I could talk about how, like, you know, my child and how much wiffle ball I played. It's all I did, man. Now, was I, was I show Hey, O'Tonni at the big level?

No, but I think it really helped. me develop as a as a baseball player. That PO stuff makes me mad. I'm sorry. My heart is like, I just found out about it. Someone in the chat said that their son's 11 under travel team was making kids POs.

And yeah, that should be, they should not be allowed to code. That's terrible. That's terrible. Gross. That's kind of our last end point. What a sour way to end the episode.

I'm sorry that I brought that up. It's a thing, though. I'm glad I know it now. It wasn't a thing when I was coaching Luke Or at least his coaches And we didn't do that Because all the lefty pitchers

That were just tall I was like well you're also going to play first James you know this Because you coach youth baseball as well I've already had to protest two games In my league because the managers Were not following the participation rule Which is the most important rule in

In the league Yeah They're treating it like this is professional baseball where you have to put your A lineup out there all the time and I'm not having it. Little League does have kind of too crazy at participation rules,

but you got to follow them because they're just confusing. Cal Ripkin was what my brother's team was that I I helped out and coached a lot. And I don't think Cal Ripkin had probably every kid had to play.

But yeah, you can't just like... These rules change at every level, I think, and I'm playing pony baseball right now. It's meant to get people involved in the game. You don't want to stick guys out on the outfield the entire game because they don't want to come back and play. Yeah, no, yeah. Like, you need people to participate.

So I already had to do this twice, bro. It was a big stink. I got cussed out on the field by the other coach because I did it. What are, if you quickly, I'm just saying curious now. What are the rules in pony? Well, we're in like one of the lower levels of pony. So this rule, again, they change every year. Mine is seven different players have to play the infield for a minimum of three innings apiece.

So you can't just leave your best guys in the infield. You have to rotate them in and out. And bro, like, I'm doing that. And when I see other coaches not doing it, that's not fair to my kids. And you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to ride or die for him. I don't care if you're going to curse me out on the field. I'm going to make sure we're playing a fair competitive game because guess what, dude,

that's the way is supposed to be done. And you guys know. And Treb. Most importantly, how old are your kids? Yeah. This is a seven and eight year old. Yeah. Every kid's that.

Yes. I mean, coaches not following that or crazy. Well, when you get, because when you get older to like even 11, 12, like the teams,

my brother's team, there were kids that were awesome in the outfit. Like the outfield becomes actually, at that age, it's kind of hard to track down a ball and catch it. It's a little more, you're going to drop more than you catch. And it's a little luck.

and you're not going to run one down. But when they get older, like we had kids that were like studs in the outfield at 12 years old and like they were the outfielder. So I wonder if that changes there. Can I give you a zing my mom had? Yeah. So this,

I protest the game. One of the other coaches goes up and he's like, can you believe this guy is protesting a seven-year-old game? And my mom who is in the stands. This guy doesn't know it's my mom goes, can you believe that you guys are, cheating in a seven-year-old game, just right back in his face. What do you say?

Just right back in his face. I'm sure he was like, wow, that hurts. And because the truth hurts, baby. Lizzo. I won a seven-year-old coach's pitch championship. No big deal. Dude, I'm telling these guys, man. Got to keep him straight.

For coaches pitch? I'm just saying, hitting bats. I got to keep these guys straight. Yeah. Yeah. All right. shout out to your mom.

Got that, dude. Yeah, she crushed him. He's probably still thinking about that. Any closing thoughts? Mariners lineup. J.P. Crawford, Adam Frazier. I like what they have put together.

No, man, it's kind of interesting. We're just in this, like we're in, it's kind of fast forwarded to the middle of spring training. like where the teams are playing. I think fans are trying to get their takes, but also in the back of their heads, knowing it's spring training, it's spring training. This doesn't matter.

And we're two weeks out. We do this on talking yanks all the time. I always give my spiel, like to remind. Or, you know, a lot of people get into baseball through us, which is awesome. They're like, hey, I've always liked it, but I want a deep dive and start listening to podcast. So if there's any that are listening and Trev can let people know again,

it is a good like PSA we do every year like spring training doesn't matter at all. Stats. Stats don't matter at all. There's like usage and stuff like that. Like, like Monty and obviously I follow the Yankees and everyone gets annoyed when I use them examples. Like he gave up some runs and then asked him about it afterwards. He was like, well, I was only throwing my fastball today so I can just like find my fastball

and I didn't throw a lot of off-speed pitches at all because it's spring training. So, like, he doesn't care about the results. He's just trying to throw his fast. Working. And Votto has talked about how he doesn't even try to get hits in spring. He just tries to see the ball as deep behind the plate as he can and hit it foul towards the dugout,

just to let it go as deep as he can and get those fast twitch muscles to then spoil it. So, like, they're working on stuff. Yep. Cosign. Cosine. Juan Soto homered. He's good.

See yes Friday. Oh, TPPs. We do. Someone just asked. It's going to be a little different format because it's hard to record because there's some little time. We're recording the first one tomorrow.

They're not coming until March 29th.