Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 52 | New Managers and Free Agents

Episode Date: November 4, 2019

We deep dove into the new managerial hires and the top free agents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We are back. We got new managers getting hired. We got a manager search still going on. Free agents, opt outs, opt-ins. Let's do it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to talking baseball. The first official kind of off-season episode. And we're going to find our own gears here. Obviously, this show has not had an off-season episodes as we go. But we are excited to figure out what it is, how it works, and all that. my name's john boy i'm coming to you from new jersey i got my co-host jake coming you from denver rocking a nicks hat but this is a a baseball podcast not a basketball podcast this is just the number nine oh just this isn't a nix hat it's just the number nine and i want to correct you on another thing again this isn't this is your talking baseball first offseason podcast i was doing talking baseball 94 95 um just talking to my wall and my dog so i'm pretty well traveled in this. So don't, you know, this is technically year.

I mean, like year 15 or so. Year 15 of talking baseball off season. Right. Usually it was. It hasn't been recorded or shown to people. That's my bad and a mistake. I shall not make again. And it's all right.

Okay. Patreon, new patrons this week, sponsoring this episode are Christina Thielen. That's a tough one. Telling. Thelan. I have no, I have no, no gauge on that one.

What do you got? I like Theelan. It feels like a Thielen. Jonathan Larson. Noah Hughes. Or Hug He's. Jacob Stoltsenbach. That's strong name.

Stoltsonbach. Wow, you better be a stocky dude. Michelle Wood, Daniel Russell, and Rob White. I had Stoltsonbach as like a long pitcher, like six, seven. That works too. You just can't be average body.

Okay. Just don't be average, Jacob Stolzenbach. Yeah. That's the name that commands a presence. Those are our most recent Patreon supporters and subscribers. $2 a month you can hang out and listen live and some jerseys. I've got to do the October raffle actually. Cool.

All right. Anyway, Jake, it's been a little bit, I think. The longest break we've had on the show in a while because we were doing daily episodes. How are you doing? I'm great, man. I'm excited. I mean, it's, again, this is part of a bigger philosophical baseball free agency problem that you and I ran into last winter meetings that, I mean, free agency technically kicks off, what, midnight tonight? Yeah, but nothing will happen.

In the NBA world, that leads to like 48 hours of pure chaos and it's awesome. In MLB, it's like, all right, like, honestly, the chaos is going to be in the next couple hours with a couple opt-ins, opt-out. to be decided. A couple, you know, for the Yankees, I know we're kind of assuming that they're going to reach a contract with Brett Gardner before free agency starts and other teams have situations like that. Cole Calhoun, we like putting those two in a bucket anyways. But it is exciting.

It, you know, it feels like the World Series just happened. The Nats just had their parade. But now it's like, all right, 2020, free agency. It's a little bit of a bummer. It's not going to be like, I'm not. not going to know Garrett Cole's team in the next 24 hours, which in the NBA I would. But I'm excited and it's, I do like, as I joked about, I've always been a huge baseball fan. And you know I like this side of baseball a little bit more, the free agency, the coming

together, the teams, or are you going to trust your minor league third basement? Are you going to go out and bring in a Todd Frazier? So I love that stuff. And there's a couple fun teams that I'm already locked into. So I'm good, man. I'm good. How are you? Nice.

I'm doing well. I'm in the midst of a move. Yeah. Sign the lease a couple days ago. Today is Monday. I think Tuesday, Wednesday are two full move days. And then I'll be in New York City. Oh, wow.

Okay. Like it's happening quick. Yeah. My credit card is getting really tested. We got to furnish a whole apartment, two bedrooms. What couch did you get? We haven't bought. a couch yet because all the couches at IKEA

can go kill themselves. Yeah. The IKEA couch selection was rather putrid. If someone out there is part of a furniture company, they need a better middle tier of couches. It's either like shit

or like expensive $5,000 couch. It's like give me a good middleer couch. There's also a big divide between looks nice and kitsy and new and modern. in the living room versus comfortability. Very hard

to get both. It's either like a basement couch or a living room couch and I want a living room couch look with a basement couch sit. And it's like do you want the comfortability of someone like Edwin and Carnacion as your DH

or would you rather try out the young guy in your farm? I think that's what you're trying to say. I was hoping you were going to make a great comparison, but then you started bad and then quit. Yeah, I've been bailed. Quick bail. Okay. So as we've been doing, do you have a burn for us?

Oh, I could. No burn. What do you need burn? No burn. Starling Marte. He's opting in. No. Yeah.

All right. we're going to start actually with the managers and that whole situation because a lot of this happened while we were covering the World Series and we just kind of skipped it and so we'll get to this later on there were how many openings Jake one two three four five six seven eight openings for manager six of them have been filled two are still searching and let's just go down the list is that cool with you that's cool to me jim brad osmiss gets fired from the Angels and they bring in Joe Madden. I like this.

As soon as Joe Madden left the Cubs, I tweeted, the Angels should go get him right away. Trout needs a chance. Like, Trout needs to be in a playoff race. I'm not saying this gets them in the playoffs, not in that division. But hopefully Madden can help them get into the race. He is a good manager. He grinds my gears. I think he's the most exhausting man in baseball.

and I think he exhausts places that he goes and then starts fresh. But I do think Madden going into a new team if they can put some talent. And he has now managed the raise who had not a lot of talent, but he got them to a world series and he did the most shifting and the most weird lineups and all this crazy shit to get the most out of his players when he was with the raise. And then when he got traded to the Cubs and he had all this talent, he shifted the least amount in all of baseball, and they asked him, and he said, well, I have good players now. I don't need to do that stuff.

So he's kind of equipped to manage two kinds of teams. I think he's a good manager still. Personally, I think he's exhausting. But I like this move for the Angels. Yeah, and so we were connecting the dots on this a little bit because it seemed a little bit A plus B, Trout Madden, L.A., Madden's time running out in Chicago. He was with, if you don't know, he was with the Amher. organization for 31 years. Before he went to the raise, he was with the California

slash Anaheim slash Los Angeles Angels, 1975 to 2005. So I'll tell you what, I'm going to be honest. I didn't know that. So there's a comfort level there. Just in the organization, he was Mike Sosha's bench coach during some of their high times during the World Series in 2002. So, yeah, when all the connected dots came out on this, it made a lot of sense. And yeah, and you'd like to think that they're going to be spending in free agency a little bit. Obviously, the West Coast coal rumors will get into that. But, yeah, if you're a baseball fan, you should be rooting for Mike Trout to get to October somehow. And he's a good manager.

There's no argument against that. Yeah, you can't really. You can dislike him because I kind of don't like Joe Madden. Yeah. But I can't say he's not a good manager. You're a hard, no magicians in the clubhouse guy. So are you if we're being fair. Well, if I'm allowing my players to beat up the magician.

It's like kind of, it's letting out steam. Don't bring a magician into the clubhouse. It's your number one rule. I hate magicians. I like the dress-up parties that Madden does. Don't bring penguins into my clubhouse. Oh, see, that's where you and I are going to have a hard line in the sand. You've made out with a penguin and all that.

I might have a team penguin in there. So the Cubs got rid of Joe Madden. They parted ways and they bring in David Ross. This is a complete change in manager. It feels like David Ross has never managed before. Very much in Aaron Boone situation. Almost the same exact thing. A player's player.

everyone loves him goes into broadcasting people love him goes and manages he's never been a coach in the dugout he's never been anything now he has a catcher which is a little more game management ship than third baseman when in the comparison to boon i think he'll do a good job i think the managing position changes now and david ross is one of these guys that's going to be more like an aaron boon keep the clubhouse loose keep the guys motivated relay wide to decisions are being made the way they are by the analytics department above. So I think that there will be a year of growing pains here.

But I like the kind of ballsiness of it. Yeah, and it's, you know, he was part of that Cubs team. He played with a lot of these guys. So that's, I mean, you could put that in the good bucket. You could put that in the bad bucket, too. Because if things get off to a rocky start, you know, you're going to hear all these rumors like, I don't know, it's, it's just that, that mental mind fuck of, if you, if, if you're peers with someone and then they're technically above you, that's a mind fuck.

I will say this. I don't think David Ross, I think he was always a authority figure, because that team was so young, that Cubs team. It's not like he's going to be managing guys that he literally was eye level teammates with. Like Joe Girardi, when he came to the Yankees, with. Posada and Jeter and Williams and stuff, or Bernie wasn't there anymore. But they were kind of, you know, they didn't think of Joe Girardi as like a father figure, grizzled vet listened to what he says as much as this seems to be on the surface.

Well, and it's sports, you often can't relate things to the, to the real life business world. But, you know, there is like, if you're someone's boss, you're not supposed to get crazy drunk. can go out partying with them. And like, I don't know. Like, yes, Rossi was an authoritative figure in their clubhouse, but when they were in the World Series, like, that's someone you pour champagne down his throat. Like, that's someone you just look at differently a little bit.

That being said, and we are Yankee fans. That's a hot take. Leave one of those hot take five-star reviews that says, hey, these guys are Yankee fans. Those are our favorites. The Aaron Boone thing has worked out really well for the Yankees. And it's not, like, completely out of left field. He was a catcher, like you said.

He's so well-liked throughout. He's like one of the more well-liked baseball players currently now just from being on like dancing with the stars and shit like that. So it's a popular hire. And again, I think the interesting thing, because didn't he have one quote that was like he's in for analytics, but he still definitely believes in being a baseball guy and stuff like that? I don't know. I like that quote, though, because that's what it is. Yeah, put that on a shirt.

So, yeah, I don't know. It's going to be, and this was, and maybe this is the advice we could give to Cubs fans is that, you know, a lot of the shots nowadays, and this will probably be different than Joe Madden to a degree, a lot of the shots come from the GM and the analytics team. So there's only so much decision making that truly happens that a manager sometimes is a scapego or Aaron Boone looks like a genius this year because half the roster gets hurt. And a lot of those guys thrive. Yep. All right. Well, we talked about Joe Girardi. He's going to Philadelphia replacing Gabe Kapler, who was never a fit and kind of just did anything.

Gabe Kapler's first game he made like an illegal substitution in the bullpen that couldn't happen or something. He brought whatever. I think it was like the first two weeks. He made a couple ones and it was like, oh boy. Yeah. And then it never panned out. Like he was in over his head from the jump.

Anyway, Joe Gerardi gets the Phillies job. What's his deal? um three i don't know they don't have it here i think it's a three or deal i don't know joe gerardy's going to bring a determinedness what's the word there determinism to this philadelphia team and i think he'll fit the city a little better than gabe a little more joe gerardy's kind of corny and i saw him speak once like live and he's very like you know he can yeah i'm I don't know if Corny's the right word, but he can be a little too not gritty, but he's very gritty like in his managerial play.

Right. Like I don't think he's going to be like chopping it up and fucking around with the guys, but like he will make sure every game matters. I think this is the interesting part with Joe Girardi. It's will he change a little bit? Because at the end of his Yankees run, it was kind of this revolution of managers and you know you kind of got to be the the joe mad and loose guy or the young guy because baseball is such a long season that if you're someone like joe gerardi who was pretty rigid with the

dudes it kind of the word we heard was that it kind of wore thin amongst some of the young guys so and when he went to the melb network we saw more of joe gerardi being his personality like he has a good personality but when he puts on the manager cap he gets a little more militaristic so it's going to be interesting to see if he just goes straight back to that because that has been what's worked for him as a manager or if he is a little looser around the edges because I think the guys would love that. They've had some clubhouse like, I don't know if they've actually had clubhouse issues, but there was the whole Santana and Arieta fight. Areietta threw Harper under the bus.

Arieta throws everyone under the bus. It might be Arieta. It might be Arieta is the problem who just opted into his contract so he's still there. So we'll see how that gets handled because I don't know. just don't see Joe letting things get crazy in the dugout clubhouse. Yeah, and their problem was over Fortnite. Like they were playing too many video games. I can't see Joe Girardi like.

Joe Girardi was so tight for a while that there was a big story that he took the team on a bowling trip. And that was him like loosening up. Yeah. If that's the loosening up, how's the Fortnite and the clubhouse going to work? So you think Gerardi's not playing Fortnite? Okay, man. Yeah, and I think we have to say this because it's, well, they are clearly different levels of players at this point. But we mentioned Mike Trout instantly when we hear Joe Madden.

It's going to be Bryce Harper. Can he get the best out of Bryce Harper? I think what you and I think is that those personalities are going to actually line up pretty well. Like they're both kind of intense locked in dudes. So that relationship seems to make sense there. So, I mean, that's good. and that's a guy that this team just invested so much money in. And, yeah, just circling back on Jake Areetta.

No, it's funny. People like you more when you pitch better. So don't have a 4-6-4 ERA next year and maybe some of your clubhouse stuff. I wish we were doing a talking baseball back when Arieta was a free agent. Because I remember just shouting from the rooftops, like there's no way he's going to be good. Yeah. Like nothing Nothing in his ability

said he was going to sustain that success For another five years Yeah God A couple couple big years for the Cubbies So I young winner I know but and it was great He was fantastic

But it was like this ain't gonna last Yeah he was He was one of those Pitchers that he was clearly starting to decline a little bit But you still paid money for pitchers And now Dallas Kichel's like what the fuck, man.

Yeah. Wow, that's a great comparison. I wonder to look at their age and stats and all that. Yeah. Damn. All right. Jace Tingler replaces... Dude, I'll let you roll with Jace Tingler

because he's kind of... You've been on him for the past five, ten years. It's the most unique hire. This dude has never been a manager or a coach in a dugout. He had some weird half-ass title. he was in the Rangers dugout for a little bit. He managed in Winterball and stuff like that, but he really has no coaching experience in the MLB level.

But apparently he speaks two languages, which is actually, I think, very important these days. He, because especially the Padres, they have a lot of Latin young players. And everyone loves them. And it seems like this was their guy. Like they didn't do a round of interviews. They were like, no, we want J.

angler. It's a bold hire and I reward them for their boldness. Yeah. And with with the boldness, it could end really sour really quick too. But, and I think the the BS position, I forget the title of it, but I think the, if you're looking for a parallel from recent years, I believe Rocco Baldelli before he got hired in Minnesota, he was in that same position. It was, what's the title? It's something player organized. or something. I don't know. It's a very new age

MLB position, but I think it normally goes to the well-liked guy that kind of knows analytics. It's kind of the guy that has been behind the scenes calling a lot of the shots, and now they're going to the forefront. So, yeah, knock him dead, Jay Stangler. Knock him dead. I mean, I'm rooting for him. It can easily be a situation where he fails,

but if he does find success, then we might have a big shift in how managers get hired. Because you have David Ross, Aaron Boone. That's the old school. Like they're new school managers, but like, hey, hire baseball guys. They've been around baseball. They know baseball.

Now you got Schmidt or, am I saying that wrong? Cardinals manager. Oh. Schnitz. That's his name. No, Snit, No, that's Braves. I am having a brain.

I always think of right shrewd now, Schilt. Schilt. Schilt, he never played in the majors. I don't even think he played in the minors. And he never managed in the majors at all. He never sat in MLB dugout before getting hired. He went through like college pitching coach, college assistant, up the ranks, up the ranks of college, and then to MLB.

And he put the Cardinals on a pretty nice run there to end the season. And so if he works out, if Tingler works out, this whole thing might get a little revamped. Yeah, it's kind of the last time I'll reference business stuff because I was pretty bad in that world. But it's like it's just having a good leader. Like it doesn't matter if Mike Schilt used to be that good by at baseball. Can he get the 25 dudes on the Cardinals to play their best baseball? Because that's what we're trying to do. So Tingler's previous like names of his positions were field coordinators.

We're field coordinator and player development coordinator. You hate those titles. I just, what are they? Yeah. Do other teams have these titles? Or did you just say, hey, we want you around? What would you say you do here, Jace? Jace Tingler.

Good for him. Good for, I hope it works for the Padres because they're about to hit their window. And if he's the guy, it's kind of crazy, but that's cool. Well, it's so crazy. And we'll talk about this a little bit in our next. segment, but, you know, how much of Jace Tingler is going to be decided like, oh, hey, the Padres opened up the bankroll? They signed Garrett Cole.

I bet Jace Tingler would look a little better as a manager if he had Garrett Cole for 33 starts instead of whoever's going to be on the end of that rotation. Quantrell, your guy. I'm going to go to the Mets. They just announced Carlos Beltron. Carlos Beltron, if you're surprised that he's a manager, there's been a, a lot of the, a lot of people that have been paying attention aren't surprised. He is highly respected in the MLB. When the Red Sox played the Yankees this season,

Alex Cora and the Yankees beat the Red Sox in a couple series. Alex Cora said, you can tell Carlos Beltrons on their side now. Like, that's like he's like the kind of the fucking baseball whisperer that travels around. He spent time with the Astros. and their club when they won the World Series. He spent time in the Yankees front office when they just went on this run

and the craziness of this player development and new players. So he's gaining this knowledge. He interviewed for the Yankees position back in 2017, but he had no idea what an interview to be a manager even was. He just kind of got called in, but then he got experienced that. So he gets this Mets job.

He was a MET great for a little bit there. This one, I like this one for the Mets. Beltron seems set up for success. We'll see. I think he's bringing Collins, Terry Collins, to be his bench coach. So we can have that dude who knows the day to day of like, hey, this is, you better schedule out. That's the thing that, like, I think gets overlooked is planning ahead. Like, Terry Collins and say, like, this is good, but you got to think about this series in June.

Like, we got to get to that or like, we got to get to there. or who's your shortstop after, you know, and just how much you have to think about how far to expand, how close? I don't know. I've never managed. These are things that a manager can help with. So I actually like that. Is that official that Collins is his bench coach? I'm not sure.

I can move to that real quick. I saw that out there, and I thought that was smart. But I like that for the Mets. Good for them. Yeah, and we've seen that with a lot of these new managers, you know, is to have a good. guy who's done it before. Larry Rothschild was there with Boone. I wouldn't be surprised if David Ross has someone like that around the team. Yeah, I think Beltran's my favorite signing. And again, normally in a society where, as you mentioned, I am a Knicks fan, it's easy to do

LOL Nix, it's easy to do LOL Mets. They get Beltran. And how many times did you hear me say during this regular season, Jim, that if you're hiring, why don't you hire someone from Houston pitching department. You hire someone from the Yankees hitting department, put it together, and you're going to have a good team. That's kind of what Beltran's been doing. And I don't know. I don't want to underplay all the managerial stuff because I do believe in top, top down run organizations. But Carlos Beltran is so well respected by the players. He's so well respected throughout baseball. And I mean, even if, you know, if Carlos Beltran can unlock one or two guys on the Mets.

I mean, that could take them to another level. So I love the hire. Yeah. And then the last hire of the six that have been finalized is Mike Mathini going to the Royals. And I break down all these hires, Jake, as, okay, you got an established dude in Joe Madden and Joe Girardi. Or, okay, you have a new rookie manager, but they're your guy.

The Cubs seem to like David Ross from the jump. The Padres, I don't even know if they looked at anyone else. Jace Tingler was their guy. The Mets looked at a lot of hires, but Carlos Beltron has been rumored to become a manager and be, you know, primed for that for a while. So you either have, okay, the young guy coming in for his first time, but you have faith in him or an established great manager. The Royals go with Mike Mathini, who is as safe and vanilla and boring as a choice you can get. And I think the Royals are still a couple years away. And this might just be a placeholder.

They can't think he's the dude. Yeah, a couple different things going here. And one thing that I'll set you up is basically like you were saying, you like the Jace Tingler higher because it's bold and maybe there's a chance that works out. Methini's basically the opposite. So that's kind of the scope you're looking for. It's not exciting.

You're right. Like it, we, we would love if the Royals came in. They hired some hot shot and they're like, hey, we're going to do this whole thing differently. It's going to take a couple years, but buckle up. We'd be like, all right, Royals, we'll see you there. Hopefully this is cool. They brought Mathini in as a special advisor last year. So the organization does like him.

And, you know, they did know that, well, they knew this could be Yosts last year. So I don't know. They do like Mike Mathini. It does seem a little vanilla, but he's familiar. He already has a year familiarity with the organization, a year familiarity with some of the players. So yeah, it's not exciting, but I don't know. It's what do the Royals have coming up the farm?

I mean, do they believe that they like the way their whole organization is set up for the next couple years, that if they can get better the next two years, Mike Mathini's in a good place to give him a chance? I don't know, but yeah, not the sexiest of hires. His numbers from St. Louis look pretty okay. But the end of that run was pretty, pretty meh. Yeah, I think he was disliked by fans. I think they were like, get him out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Jake, the other two teams left that need managers are the San Francisco Giants. and the Pittsburgh Pirates, there is still Buck Showalter who wants to manage. I think he fits with Pittsburgh pretty well,

just kind of attitude. Yeah. But I don't know who wants that Pittsburgh job. Like, will Buck Showalter take one of these jobs? Will he be wanted for one of these jobs or we wait out another year? It's tough. I mean, maybe Pittsburgh,

if they gave him the right insurance, Like if they were like, hey, Buck, here's the deal. We're going to give you five years. And we've seen what you've done in Baltimore and some of your other stops. Like, you know, we are open to the full Buck Showalter experience. And maybe that's what Buck wants. I don't know. Maybe he doesn't.

Maybe Buck's saying, fuck that. Give me a solid team. Yeah. So, yeah, it kind of depends where Buck's head at. And, yeah, it seems like San Fran's not fully a fit for Buck Showalter in my head. like I want the geekiest dude ever because I think their their GM they hired is a geek. So like, just go with that. You see what the giants are doing?

They like Gabe Kapler's in consideration. Yeah. Why? That's the guy you fire before the next guy. Well, that's like we're going to have a bad year and a half. So we need Gabe Kapler in here. Mm-mm.

Bruce Bochie isn't retired. Love that. He's taking a one-year-old. sabbatical he wants to manage again in 2021. It's genius. Everyone thought he was retired and he went on Mad Dog Radio and was like, no, no, no, no, no, this is a sabbatical. I want to get back out there. See how I feel. I'm retiring from the Giants. I don't like where that's headed. Well, maybe the Giants do a one-year manager change up and bring him back.

Bring back, Bojeet. That would be awesome. I now have to root for that, unfortunately. But I think part of it was, too, they brought in, like, they did the whole analytics full revamp, but they were going to give Bochy one last year to be Bruce Bochy. So I think that dream might be fading away a little bit, but I still like it. Yeah. Crazy. I don't even know if there's any leads for these Pittsburgh or whatever. Twins bench coach Derek Shelton has interviewed for the job for the pirates.

Pirates job kind of sucks, man. Yeah. Besides a beautiful view and a nice ballpark. I don't know why you'd go there. Hey, man. Those are two of my favorite things. I'm in. All right.

Hire Jake. You got anything else on managers? I mean, obviously, we'll update. There was a lot to go through right there since we missed it all. In the end, like, I'm not here. I'm not here to hate on another team's choice until we don't know. We don't know how any of these guys will go. the only one that I'm going to give shit to is

Mike Mathini seems like such a boring choice in a season in a change changing tides of either you know new exciting guy or proven good manager Madden Gerardi Showalter are proven

good managers yeah I don't know that the only counter I'd have is that for some of these organizations like the Royals who they're not to have World Series aspirations next year is sometimes you just need good organization and a guy who's done it before and a guy who's going to do the right thing. So like, like you said, like you thought there might be some growing pains with some of David Ross's stuff this year.

Mike Mathini shouldn't have that. That's true. That's a good, good counter. He should be stable. He should be able to run through the motions. And then it's, you know, can you get something else out of these guys? All right. We're going to take a quick break. Then we're going to come back and talk about the pitchers that are topping the free agent list. All right. Free agent season is coming. And as this rolls and this will probably be the only episode where we kind of deep dive into the top free agents and our thoughts.

And then hopefully it's more reactions to where they sign and news. And that's how the episodes will go forward. But if you're doing a baseball episode, you got to do. this conversation. Jake, with Strasbourg opting out, which is fucking nuts that he has a hundred million dollars guaranteed, 100 million dollars guaranteed for four years. And he gets like 35 a year at the end of it. Guaranteed. And he says, nah, I'm going to go get myself more. And it's the smartest move. Because he will easily get himself more. money and more years, that's just wild to really think about it.

Yeah. We don't get thrown in those positions a lot. But yeah, and I was blown away because the last year of that contract, when Strasbourg was 34 years old, he was due to make $45 million that year. So in my head, I had mentally turned off the Strasbourg switch. And I was like, oh, you don't turn down that, ever, ever. and then he goes out. He has an incredible season.

I think he pitches the most innings. He obviously does his World Series and playoff heroics. He's like the perfect candidate, the former number one pick. It's not fluky or anything. So, yeah, I mean, he's probably going to get the same AAV. Ooh, it's been a while since we've talked about annual value of contracts. But yeah, he's going to get two or three more years. He's going to get six or seven at the value that he was going to get for four.

And at this age, you have to go and do that. I think this is going to be, Garrett Cole and Strasbourg will be the Machado Harper, where are they both Boris clients? I believe so. I could double check pretty quickly. Because that kind of actually changes things. Because then it's Borough bidding against Boris.

Last year, Harper and Machado is Boris versus, I forget who Machado's. agent was but they are both Boris so they're both Boris so okay that's going to be fucking weird for Boris because one of these dudes is going to set the market the other's going to get just under it and it might take forever for this to wind out i mean garrett cole this is his first time becoming a free agent same with strasberg they're going to go listen to every pitch from every team that wants to pitch them go get yourself the free flights and the free meals and the dinners in a bunch of cities and get told how great you are and how much they want you and how much they love you,

go do it, go take the tour. Like, I'm not going to blame anyone for not doing that. Sounds like a bunch of fun. Go get, you know, priced out and pimped around and have some fun. They should both do that. And then they're going to, it's Boris versus Boris. It's kind of weird. Boris versus Boris.

We got both of them like, what, seven years? I mean, they will have to beat the Corbyn contract. that's how it works. Oh, yeah, and I mean, they're going to wreck the Corbyn contract. They're going to wreck David Price's. Most money gotten by a pitcher, I think it's $221 million or something like that or $2.11. But, yeah, I think both of these guys are going to be north of that. They're semi-in-their-primes, and they just did special things, both of them.

Garrett Cole's last two seasons are about as good as they can get. and Stephen Strausberg just won the World Series MVP with some of the best playoff stats you'll see. And there's like, Stephen Strausberg has a little bit of the story. Like we saw him. He was like, yeah, it was too tight. Then these, we hired these crazy Annabal Sanchez and Gerardo Paras started hugging me and I was more relaxed. And it's like, okay, so you have to sign them with Strasbourg. That's the catch.

Yes, baby shark comes. Is this two years in a row, is this two years in a row now that the world's Series MVP becomes a free agent after the World Series? Steve Pierce last year? Pierce. Yeah, trying to go back before that. I guess so. It was Springer before that, right?

And he did. Yeah, for Houston. So two years in a row. And I think Strasbourg will get more than Pierce. Don't talk out of your butt. Hot takes, early hot takes. Jake, I like this starting pitching spread. for this year.

Okay. I think you've got top dogs, right? You've got Garrett Cole and Strasberg, and those are the two. Then I think you've got solid upper echelon, but not Garrett Cole or Strasbourg. You've got some maybe two starters, but like, okay, a solid three you could be happy about. I mean, you got Bumgarner and Rieu and Wheeler, those three. you'd be happy with him, you know? Like the upside is there.

The middling middle road is also there. But Wheeler has so much upside. Give that dude some pine tar, please. Yeah. And enjoy Houston, Zach. I've been, been dreading that tweet for about six months now. But I mean, Zach Wheeler is a perfect fit for Houston. If Zach Wheeler goes to Houston, he will replicate Garrett Cole.

Yeah. with Brett Strom, pitching coach over there and their analytics department and whatever, like, yes. He's got the same peripherals that Cole had before going to Houston.

They're like pretty similar. And it's so funny and obviously we're anticipating a lot here, but I mean, it's this whole circle that's going around in baseball and we've seen it with Yankee fans where it's like, oh, the Yankees, they regret not trading for Garrett Cole

a few years ago. And it's like, well, the Yankees probably wouldn't have made Garrett Cole as good as he has become now, because Houston has a special sauce with their pitching right now. So using that formula, Zach Wheeler and Houston, it adds up. It adds up. Riu, I think he's got to stay in the NL, same with Bump.

You and I are very much A.L. Bias guys. There's a little A.L. bias. We're not too shy about that. I don't know about Riu. I mean, he had an incredible year. Someone's got to get excited about Riu. I have heard some Cubs rumors.

I don't know. I mean, who was our guy a little while that came over from the Dodgers and hated baseball but was the Yankees ace for a couple years? Corota. Corota. Yeah, I don't know. I think what Ryu did last year, that plays anywhere. Yeah.

All right. Then you have, where is it? where the hell is it you got dallas kiko i don't know if he's going to have to wait as long this time someone might be like no so he he doesn't have the the draft pick attached to him so that's that's a story with a couple of guys this year grandal when we get to the hitters but yeah keikle has no pick attached to him so he can kind of get settled in with the team if he wants oh to rizzy i mean he's going to get picked up by someone as you know a three four maybe potentially a two but and probably more of a 3-4 pitcher on a rotation,

if it's a team trying to win now. I don't know what his contract will look like, but O'Darizzi will probably get some money. He had a good year, and I think his slider graded out pretty top-notch, so it seems like some team will definitely fall in love with that. Cole Hamels, he's an older guy that probably just wants to get signed. He might take a two-year contract somewhere.

He had a pretty good last two seasons with the Cubs. so he's up there Tehran Pineda Gibson Purcello those are the kind of guys that you have to give a chunk of money to but you know

to eat innings and be a pro pitcher they'll get picked up there's some interesting guys on here Jake like Gio Gonzalez Ivan Nova Homer Bailey Brett Anderson are these guys going to get the Kichel treatment are they like is Matt Harvey

going to get picked up Like, he's going to get a triple A. He'll be invited to camp. I don't think you can guarantee him any money. Felix Hernandez. I think, like, yeah, Felix. Felix will get invited somewhere, and there'll be a pitching coach that'll say, hey, maybe we can craft you a little bit.

But, I mean, his arm has been through a lot. He's 34 going on 44. No, I think what you were saying is that, like, okay, this, when we go into the hitters later, there's a couple positions. where it's like, oh, well, if you needed a guy there, you're kind of fucked. Starting pitcher, if you need a one, I mean, there's a couple legit ones out there. There's a couple borderline twos. There's some threes.

And then kind of the end of rotation guys that you and I are dipping our toe into right now. You know, Pineda, Kyle Gibson, Wayne Wright's technically a free agent. Please go back to St. Louis. Tanner Rourke, Wade Miley, Brett Anderson. These are guys that have you signed them, like, I don't know. you can kind of pencil in 160 innings of okay baseball, which, hey, some teams, actually, no, not some teams. Every team needs that. Yeah.

What about Homer Bailey? Didn't he, wasn't he doing pretty good after the trade? Or am I making that up? He's got two starts. After the trade, he's got two blow-up starts. Otherwise, he was pretty good. Yeah, he settled in. I mean, he had a 4-3 ERA, and like you mentioned, two of those are blowouts.

But yeah, he kind of locked in in Oakland. Yeah, yeah, his ERA is not going to look good because he's got a two-innings pitch, nine earn runs. But if you take it game by game, he was actually pretty good post-trade. So he might get a one year or two-year-year-old year. I've no idea. Bring him back Cincinnati. No, he went to the A's.

I know, but I'm saying Cincinnati game the giant contract. Let's run it back. Sure the first one didn't work out. Good time. Do you have a sleeper here? Ooh. Like do you, okay, let me give you five guys. Okay. And you tell me who you would want the most and who you think is going to get the best deal.

Just don't put, don't put Jordan Liles in there. No, I'm going kind of like the second tier. Bum Gardner, Ryu, Wheeler, Keikle, Oda Rizzi. I think Wheeler gets the best deal out of those five guys. I think so too, just because he has the armed talent and basically what analytics and all these teams now think is that if you have that, we can mold you. So, yeah, I think you're right. Honestly, man, if I'm a team, so basically we have to do this like without Houston because Houston's kind of an unfair advantage. because if they bring in Zach Wheeler, like, yes,

I think Zach Wheeler's going to have a chance to almost contend for the Cy Young. But any other team, I'm going to assume he's going to be Zach Wheeler. So I'm going to kind of eliminate Houston for now. I would love for you, man. He had a crazy year. He had a crazy year. There's injury concerns with him, though, right?

I mean, he's older. He's 32. He'll be 33 start of next season. But in 2018, he had a big injury that cut his season. And half, 2016, he didn't pitch it all because of injury. So that's two of the last four years have been shut down due to the injury. Yeah. And I mean, he's older, so teams would be a little scared anyways.

But Jim, his last 44 games started over the past two seasons. He's 21 and 8 with a 2-21 ERA. Like, I'm sorry. Like, put those stats next to Zach Wheeler's stats, and you're going to say no contest. So I don't know. I think I'm more in, if your team ends up with Ryu and Zach Wheeler got more money, I think you should sit there and be pretty happy with yourselves.

Yeah. All right. Okay. What about this now the second tier? Like the bumgarner, Oda Rizzy. No, no, even lower. Oh. All right.

Which, okay, here's random five at the bottom of this list. Ready? Oh, boy. Drew Smiley, Ivan Nova. Michael Waka, Homer Bailey, who you want out of those for. This is tough. I think you and me secretly like Ivan Nova. I liked what I saw from Homer Bailey.

I mean, this is tough. That's such a crapshoot. I'll go on an old Jakey Laurel is I love the old fallen warrior. So I'm going with Homer Bailey. Just because what he was doing in Oakland was like kind of dominant. Drew Pomerance was a starting pitcher, went to relief for the brewers. I think he's going to get,

I think he's going to get, someone's going to take him as that long man or relief like guy. Like, hey, this guy. Oh, yeah. Drew, Drew Palm is a reliever now. And then you got Colin McHugh, also same boat kind of.

Like, what's he going to be picked up for and stuff like that? And why? The relief pool is pretty thin. The relief pool is really thin. And last year it was pretty good. There was like four out there that were like really nice. You got Will Smith, Will Harris, Dellen Batances, who's coming off injury. Daniel Hudson, who just closed out the World Series.

But his track record doesn't say that he should get good money at all. Right. If I like him, but come on, he's not going to like that. Fernando Rodney, technically a free agent. What, um. Joe Smith. Is this just all the Astros relievers? Yes.

Uh, Chris Martin, the guy who got hurt for the Braves, but had been pitching really well. What reliever is going to get the most money? Is it Will Smith? Is it like Pomerantz? If Pomerantz is getting reliever, getting signed as a reliever. Really? There's not a lot out here.

It's very thin. Yeah. I don't know. I could see a team convincing themselves that Daniel Hudson figured something out, right? No. I mean, to your deal. Not a lot of money. I mean, look at what Zach.

Look at what Zach. written that amount of Vino got and David Robertson, no one's getting that here. Yeah, that's a, yeah, sorry for our, if you're a team out there that bullpen is, is the red flag. There's a, it's slim pickets. Yeah. My bullpen is also the easiest to fix in your, in your farm system sometimes. Sometimes.

Because any starter, you can be like, go give us some index. Right. All right. another quick break, then we'll come back and do the offensive free agents. All right, Jake. Another national is the most coveted offensive free agent. Strasbourg ops out. But Rendon, man, he is going to set the market, I think, here as an offensive player

or a field player, wherever you want to talk about him. He's the guy, right? He's the leader of this free agency class. Easily, easily. And we are waiting to hear, because the only hitter that could give Rendon a conversation will be Jady Martinez, where we're going to know in the next couple hours if he's opting in or opting out. But he's a pure DH at this point. I mean, Rendon plays a quality third base.

He has to opt out, right? We'll see. It's kind of an interesting situation because there was this stigma that free agents don't get paid anymore, even though last year's guys actually did get paid decently. He's only a DH. So, I mean, J.D. Martinez has, the NL teams are out. So it's how many AL teams need a DH. And he has been really good.

He's owed 20 million. I think he's going to opt out. I think you can talk yourself into, like, I could see the White Sox or Texas Rangers. And it would be similar to kind of what happened with the Raldas Chapman. What if he goes in place for the raise? How about that? Jady Martinez for Kime Trade.

Yeah. So I think he's going to, and this is one of those weird things, and I think it's funny that well, we haven't brought it up to this point, but it's so funny that there are family factors and things that tie into these decisions that, like, I mean, there's a lot going on for these guys. Like, you have to decide where you're going to live in stuff. But yeah, I think Jady Martinez, it seems like the city of Boston kind of wants him to operate. opt out. I've heard some mixed things, but I think Boston, if J.D. does opt out, they'll start talking themselves that they can resign Mookie. If he doesn't, Mookie's fully gone. But yeah, I mean, Rendon easily, easily will set the position player market.

And then if J.D. opts out, he's the second. And then we were saying this before we started recording. Third base has some good depth if you're looking for a third baseman. You got Josh Donaldson, who went off, the bringer of rain. You got Todd Frazier. who had a decent year and is respected, highly regarded, also my best friend. So, shut up about it. There was some others I saw that I'm blanking on remembering right now. Pablo Sandoval, Mike Mustakis. Ask Crabbs.

He could play a little third if he needs to. Yeah, As Cabs is out there. Yeah, I mean, Rendon's the special guy. If you signed Donaldson, I mean, you're going to fully be bought into that and the potential of him having a pretty special year. And then, yeah, like someone like Mustakis, he's an impactful guy. Todd Frazier, Estruble Cabrera, if those guys come into town, you feel comfortable with your third base position.

It's not a question mark. So the third base has some decent options out there in free agency. Yeah. Do you know what his, someone in the chat just asked, what's J.D.'s opt-in? Do you know the numbers there? I want to say it's 20, it's 20 mil per year. He has another option next year.

And I forget if that's the final two, if that would be two years or three years. But it seems like J.D. Martinez would at least be able to get the same money and an extra year or so because he is 32 now. Let me see if I could get his contract up. So, yeah, if he opts in, it's 23 mil, and then 2021 is 20 mil, 2020 is 20 mil, 2020 is 20 mil.

So third base, there's a good amount of options. Shortstop. Do you want D.D. Grigorous? Because that's your option. Yeah. Hey, Jose Iglesias. He'll tell you he had in the 280s last year. But yeah, shortstop is pretty empty. And you and I have circled around the D.D.

Gregorius conversation a couple times. I just don't know. A team is going to talk themselves into D.D. Gregorius, because A, he's the only guy. and his hitting numbers are pretty impressive, all things considered. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I mean, you got like Brock Holt utility, but really shortstop's very thin.

Yeah, it's like there's not even anyone that you're like, well, if he does this, it's like, no. Wilmer Flores. Good short stops don't hit free agency. That's why I got into it with Yankees Twitter a little bit because I said, If Didi Grigorous comes back and plays like the D.D. Gregorius, we've seen the past two years, he was going to get huge paid. He didn't. His OPS was down 100 points. He had Tommy John surgery. So he's a full-on wildcard this free agency. And there's some trades that can happen as well, but we're just doing free agency right now.

You also got Etcheraparia and Flores, but you're not going to get these guys to be your everyday shortstop. No. If you're going free agency, it's D.D. and Glesi. but really D-D-D. First baseman, Mitch Morland, Ryan Zimmerman, Matt Adams, Jose Ibrahim, Edwin Encarnacion,

Justin Smoke, Eric Thames. For me, Jose Abraeu's not being talked about enough. He's 33. He can't, he's not great at first base anymore. I don't think he ever was, but body started going in. So you have to have to plan on him being mostly a DH with a little bit of first base.

He led the AL, and runs batted in this year on kind of a sad. No, it was a fun White Sox team, but it was a White Sox team that wasn't heading anywhere. I don't know. He seems like a guy, if he's on the right ball team and gets a little spark, like he can still hit. He had 33 home runs, 123 RBIs.

It's one of the more solid hitters you can get. What team needs someone like that? that's um the team that i just keep because in the al you have so many teams not even trying still right so you have to find a team that's trying to win in the next two years and needs a first base dh and who who is that that can afford free agents like what does that limit it down to one or two teams white socks red socks the team the team that keeps popping up for me that's really interesting that I think they're going to make a big splash, or if they don't, someone like Jose Ibrahim would be a good consolation surprise.

It's the Texas Rangers. They've got a new stadium. They had two pitchers emerge last year. Like, they're going to sign someone flashy. I don't know if it's one of the top guys. There's some links to Rendon, too. But if they come short on Rendon, like, bringing Jose Abraeu, bringing a couple of those pitchers we talked about,

and you can make the depth of that, Ranger team so much better because last year it was like, okay, if we run into Lance Lynn and Mike minor, we're kind of fucked. Like, those guys aren't dealing. If you don't see them, it's like, all right, the Rangers kind of suck. You'd rather have Jose Breyer than Edwin and Conaccio. Doing the same kind of thing, right? It's interesting. I think it's a conversation. Edwin's a little older. And I don't know, we saw Edwin play the field when he needed to and it wasn't horrible. So I I think you'd be more locked into a Brayu for a solid season. Second baseman.

There's a good amount of options here. You got Jonathan Scope, Scooter Jeanette, Dozier, who might be hung over still. Kipnis, Zobrist. That's kind of an interesting one. Mustakis can technically play some second base. So there's a, it's not like a, like, I don't know if you're in love with Scope or Scoop or Scooter Jeanette, who you don't know what you're getting at all. but I think it's

I don't know that's kind of weak pool it yeah it feels like a classic case of if you bring any of those guys to be your eighth or ninth hole hitter you're like okay sure like let's see if we could get some good stuff out of Jonathan's scope that if he can find

his his swing again but yeah those guys don't get you too excited someone who's kind of first base second base who we haven't mentioned yet Jim who he might get a little bit paid howie Kendrick Yeah, if you're looking for contact I mean, dude hit fifth for the World Series champions Yeah Crazy

Starlin Castro is a free agent They didn't pick up his option Talk about how easy it is to fall off the baseball map Yeah Well, you go to Miami You go to Miami and you're done Goodbye I mean I don't even know Starlin Castro's stats

Was he doing anything in Marr? How do you get motivated to fucking play in Miami right now? No. Two full seasons. Dude, he played 162 games last year. Oh, my. Good for you, Starlin. Awesome, but come on.

Pretty average numbers, like pedestrian numbers. Not great. Only 22 home runs, which is his career high by one. Yeah, set his career high in RBI's 86. Starlin went out there and swung it last year, babe. Damn. All right. The other infield position is catcher.

There's a good amount here. If you want a backup slash. Starlin played 162. That's crazy. Oh, my God. Is he the only player to play 162? I don't know. Hold on.

2019 games played MLB leaders. I mean, it used to be a lot of guys. Jeter, Kano would do it all the time. Games played. No. Okay. So Simian also played 162. Solair played 162,

Valar on Baltimore. Fuck. And Merrifield. Damn, man. Those are some, besides Simian on Oakland, that's Miami, Kansas City,

and Baltimore field and guys up 162. Run it out there. How the fuck aren't you going to give those guys a day off? I hope they were asked and they said, nah, I'll play. Because I mean,

if you're playing every day on the Orioles and you're not giving like, dude can I get a breather this clearly doesn't matter and it sucks just give me one day coach it's it's one of my my favorite speeches i've stumbled into this year but we we forget like these dudes love baseball like starlin castor starland castro would not have played 162 games for the marlins he didn't fucking love the game of baseball it's crazy damn catchers you got chrinos castro gomes flowers Weathers,

Luke Roy, Austin Romine, Francisco Cerelli, Martine Maldonado, Russell Martin, Wellington Castillo. There's a lot, Jake. Well, yeah,

there's a lot of guys that are fillers and you're comfortable with them at spring training. Granda's a guy who can change your lineup, man. He's the only one

that's going to be coveted. The rest, you're getting them as a platoon catcher. I don't think you're going to get any of those other guys and be like he's our number one.

Maybe Torinos, give him a shot. maybe Jason Castro, but the rest are kind of, you have a platoon situation or a spring training battle or something like that. Yeah, they're a guy that a lot of these guys would be, if you had both of them on your team, you'd be like, oh, we like to think we've got a solid one A and one B. Like that, that would be the kind of BS you here.

But yeah, a couple, if your team needs a catcher, you should be pretty happy with this. This will kind of be an interesting group to see how the, anomalous fall in free agency because I don't know. I mean, our team's going to really be fighting each other between some of these guys? Are they going to be saying, oh, well, if we wait it out, maybe we could sign one of them for $2 million instead of $4 million? I have no idea. Right?

I had no idea how it plays out. I think it's going to take a while for some of those guys to get looks. We'll see. All right. Outfield. And then we'll wrap this up. Kind of a weird, long-winded episode, so I hope that we didn't lose you at any point.

Outfield, Jake. You got Hunter Pence. J.D. Martinez is obviously number one. Number two is kind of Ozuna. Marcel. Marcel's going to be looked at pretty nicely. I like Marcel. He is a violent bat.

He can play the corner. Yeah, a couple teams are. going to talk themselves into Marcel. Then you got, uh, where is it, where is it, where is it, where is it, where is it, Puege? Yeah, yeah. And Brett Gardner's up there, Alex Gordon,

gold glove winners up there. Castellanos, Nicholas Castellanos gets traded off the tigers and goes off for the Cubs. Be cool if he can find himself on a contender and have some fun. And then he'll get a good look. And then some other big names here are, let's see that new guy from Japan yashitomo tutugo

no idea how you're saying need him need him another guy from Japan Shogo Akiyama or is that I'm blanking Avicale Garcia he'll get some looks Cory Dickerson contact guy Arzuna is the exciting one

Brett Gardner I think the Yankees will try to lock up Pueg you're bringing a lot you're taking a lot on if you get Pueeg Where do you want Puege the land? Ooh, that's a fun game. How about like this is rant, literally this is me not thinking at all. But I like him in the Padres, right? Like just getting some excitement going in San Diego,

just having him being kind of the crazy guy that gets them going on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, I don't even think it's a fit, but that's where my mind weighs. Where would you want to see Puege? I just need him in bright lights. He didn't belong in Cincinnati. Damn. Sorry, Centsy. No, like don't go to the Brewers.

Okay. Wow. Don't go to the Diamondbacks. Don't go to the Rockies. Don't go to the Marlins. Ooh, how about the Angels? Put him next to Trout. Boom.

Done. Calhoun leaves. Pueg comes in. Puege and Madden. Yeah. I think we're still. I think we're still looking for the Calhoun option news. I bet if this was talking angels,

they'll probably say they're working on a contract right now. But yeah, I mean, Pueeg and that lineup being a threat, sure. Madden doing weird stuff. Pueg trying to play off of it gets a little weird at points. Yeah. I'm all for it. Give it to me. Okay.

Cool. Like it. All right. I think that kind of ends this episode. Jake, do you have any big takeaways after going through all this and look at all these names. Me, this was too much.

Like, I need, I'm ready to react to news instead. This is a lot of guys. It's a lot of guys, a lot of free agents, a lot to talk about. No, I mean, I love it because you could just go down so many different avenues. I mean, if this was talking Red Sox, you'd say, okay, JD's going to opt out. We'll bring in Castellanos for a similar price.

We make him our, our DH. You just, the wheels start turning. And if you're every fan base, you see two or three guys on here that you're like, hey, I think if we bring in as Drupal Cabrera and he hits like he did on the Nats, he could be a pretty good two-hole hitter for us. And then, you know, four months from now, we're like, hey, Cabrera looks terrible. And that's baseball. So I don't know.

I love it. I'm interested to see what teams come out of left field. And you're right. Like they're kind of what we ended with Pueig is, you know, you want those guys to end up somewhere that matters. And like we lost a year of Mani Machado last year. I didn't watch him play. I only saw him when I made a breakdown of him.

Yeah. So, and that's, and hey, maybe the Padres turn it around. We like Jace Tingler. But, yeah, you just, you want these guys to be in people's faces because they're, some of them are just so talented. Yeah. All right. Thanks, guys.

We will be back. If anything, major breaks, obviously we'll jump on right away to do that. Otherwise, we're still kind of figuring out the format here, as we go through the off season. But thanks for hanging out with us. If you have suggestions, send them in, follow us on Twitter, leave a review, five stars only.

Appreciate you. See you later. Enjoy your week. I will be spending two days moving to New York City. It's going to be not fun, although I'm very excited. See you later. Jake sucks.