Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 58 | Brewers & Padres Trade, Pomeranz, Gomes & Gibson Get Signed

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

Padres sign Pomeranz. The Nationals have agreed to re-sign free-agent catcher Yan Gomes to a two-year, $10MM contract. The Rangers agreed to a three-year, $30MM pact with free-agent right-hander Kyle Gibson. The Mariners have agreed to a one-year deal with Kendall Gravemen. The Padres and Brewers have broken open a quiet trade market with an interesting swap of young big leaguers. Outfielder Trent Grisham and righty Zach Davies are heading to San Diego, with second baseman Luis Urias and southpaw Eric Lauer going to Milwaukee in exchange. Pirates Hire Derek Shelton As Manager (Twins lose entire staff) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We are back and the MLB is moving. The Padres make some moves. The Brewers make some moves. The Rangers signed some guys. Nationals get their catcher back. Let's go. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Talking Baseball.

I'm your host, John Boy, and my co-host, Jake, coming to you from Denver. I am in a hot apartment in New York City. Hot. Speaking of hot, Jake looking hot in his Vanderbilt. and the hot stove is kind of sizzling a little bit. It might not be the moves that we're all belly aching for, but we're getting some. They're feeding us scraps as we go here, Jake,

which I'm actually pretty happy about when we compare it to last year. It's kind of a conversation I want to get into. But first, how are you doing? Jake. Hey, Jim, Jimmer, Ferdette. I'm doing good, man. I'm back home. got back, what was it, yesterday or late Saturday night,

was on the road for 10, 11 days or whatever, like similar to yourself. 11 days, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. So good, it was good to get home. Still, the reason I'm wearing my silly Vanderbilt hat, I reached over to my normal hat pile in my makeshift office in my living area that my girlfriend loathes.

and none of my normal routine hats were there. So it was this guy or bus. So we're rolling with it. Vandy Doors. Maybe we'll talk about a Vanderbilt player today. And yeah, man, getting our asses waxed until winter meetings, right? Yep. Hey, speaking of hats, I wet.

Katie hates how many hats I have. Oh, yeah. And coverage gear, shout out, sent me 26 hats. Yeah. Our buddy killed us with hats. 26 hats. So I have like a box full of hats. I can't even wear all of them.

And then I brought one hat on my trip to California. One hat on the 11-day trip. I came home with six hats because Easton gave me two and Coach Ballgame gave me three. Yeah. I was like, how the, I just accumulate hats everywhere I go. And we have someone sponsoring our winter meetings trip. So I got a hat from them to wear. too. You know, it's just, it's a, it's a hat life for me. And the Reddit, the red, people on

Reddit I did an AMA, Jake, I'm getting a lot of compliments on my hair. I've never gotten compliments on my hair before. You just complimented it. So, dude, you're no hat life. Did you, what did you do? Did you, did you shower? Did you get it cut recently? Yeah, there's this place in Pleasanton, California called Cosmos. And that's right. You would cut in California. You would, okay, good. You would think it's the worst haircut ever. they have 20 seats like 20 active seats at all times and

walk in and there's not a lot of English being spoke and it's $15 flat and you're like there's no way this can be good they give really good haircuts. She asked if she wanted my beard cut I never had my face touched as much by a stranger.

She was shaving my mustache so she was like pulling my face like I was Robin Williams and hook and the little kid just trying to find Peter pan. That's what I felt like. But yeah, hair looks good. But I'm going to, it's a hat life. Before we get into everything, I haven't done this in a while and I'd feel bad about it and

I need to. I need to shout out our patrons that are sponsoring this show. There's a lot because I'm backed up. But hang with me. We've been traveling. We've been, it's been a weird schedule for talking baseball. This is kind of back to routine. So we thank Colin Richard, Quentin Hoobner, Hubner, Hubner, Graham, Graham,

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Oh, geez, all right. You talk for a second. I'm winded. I'm still lost in your hair, man. I was nervous because I was like, wait, did Jimmy get his haircut before the Eastern event? Because that would make sense, and then I totally forgot

you had your little your little place in Pleasantville. Yeah, good movie. So I'm good. I'm happy. I cover covered my P's and Q's. I probably got to get a haircut this week. And yeah, man, just, I'm ready to go.

I'm excited. So we have a bunch of signs. I think the first half of the show we're going to talk about a bunch of the free agent signings. We'll go to a break. We'll talk about the big trade, kind of weird trade, and then we'll go to a break. We'll talk about some of the odds and ends that are also happening. But Jake, in general, before we get into these signings, this offseason feels better than

last offseason, correct? Like this feels normal and actually we'll get into this. Guys are getting overpaid. Like last year, no one was getting signed and we feared no one was going to make money they deserved. I'm not getting that feeling at all with this offseason so far. Yeah, it's slow moving. It's still, I mean, we're getting something every couple days, which is nice. And again, I think our problem might be is that we've jumped into this.

world of baseball. And like you mentioned, I think our form of currency and baseball hat shows our growth in the industry is that last year might be an awful barometer. Yeah. Last year was like atrocious. And I think it was because, and I think collusion got thrown around, and I'm not sure if collusion is the exact right word. But I do think that there was something going on in free agency that either all of these guys were working with companies or all of these guys hired nerds from the same background, that we heard those stories that, like, guys weren't getting free agent offers all offseason, and then someone was on a golf course, and they got, like, two offers on the same day, and it was the exact same offer.

Yeah. So I'm interested when we go to winter meetings, which, by the way, I know I've mentioned that briefly a couple times, but check us out. We're going to be doing a ton of fun stuff there. I want to talk to when we corner a couple of the big guys and be like, did MLB send out a memo? Or was there something said that like, hey, we got to get the ball moving on this because it's a totally different vibe.

Are there less teams tanking? Because we've really seen three teams make moves, right? The Padres just threw their hat into the we're making. moves ring along with the White Sox and why am I blanking on it? I mean, the Braves are the big outlier. Well, now the Padres have done a trade and a move. So I'm saying like the Padres were still kind of tanking last year. They got Machado, but that was their one big thing.

Now they need their sprinklings. The White Sox are trying to get their sprinklings. They didn't get Machado. So maybe there's more teams competing. Yeah, I think there's maybe that's it. I'd have to go back to the drawing board and look at it a little bit. But, I mean, you know, the brewers are in on the trade with San Diego. And we're seeing a couple of the smaller signings.

I know Stephen Void or dude. But then Texas with Gibson. So I don't know. Like, I think if you took the Braves out of it, like even if you took the Braves out, who they've had, what, six or seven signings, I think we'd still have more action than last year at this point. Yeah, a lot more. So let's start. Let's open things up.

The Padre signed Pomerance. We went over everything about the positions that were available, and we said relief pitching was a shortage. I said Pomerance might be the number one pick for relief pitching or up there. It kind of is this deal. The Padres signed Pomerance. He was on the Padres. He had a good season for them.

Then they traded him to the Red Sox. Then he faltered ever since until he went to the Brewers last season. and made a bunch of relief out appearances at the end of the season. It did really well. You got a four-year deal, Jake. Yes. And I hate coming off like got overpaid. But this is kind of weird to give Pomerance a four-year deal $34 million.

They're treating him like he's a proven commodity out of the pen. He's not. Yeah. And there's, I think there's a couple things in the pot here. It's the dearth of relievers. Did I get it right? I still don't know. Yeah, you nailed it.

No, you fucking crushed it. Like, I mean, there is a world where Drew Pomeran's is a better reliever than Will Smith. Drew Pomeran's in his short stint relieving, 25 appearances, 26 innings, 45 strikeouts. I mean, the dude went nuts. But four years? Give him a two-year deal. Yeah, but I think it comes back to the lack of relief pitching. I think, and something you mentioned that I hadn't fully crunched was that he has been around the Padres.

I mean, he threw 102 innings there to the tune of a 247 ERA in 2016. It seems messed up. But Jimmy, I think the bigger thing is it's a timing is everything in life, man. And Drew Palm goes over to Milowacay. they put him in the bullpen and he just lets it rip and he's uh... I mean he's clearly reaping the rewards.

Yes, there's some risk there but also if Drew Pomeranz is this I mean almost two strikeout and hitting reliever that the Padres got the contract would actually be good for San Diego. I know we're all skeptical of that but I mean there there is a chance

it works out for them. There is, but they're basically paying him like Andrew Miller money or Will Smith who had what 30 saves last year they did it for a full season Pomerance hasn't been a reliever for a full season. So to give him four year deal I wonder what the competition was because to me it seems like I was a two year deal like what did Zach Britton get last year? What did out of vino get last year? What did Robertson get last year?

What did all these relievers that got signed last year? they all got two-year deals. They got, I thought they got three. And I think the Britain one is kind of funny because it's got the, his was like a two-year with an option for four years or something like that. And they got more money. I mean, they were in double digits. Pomeran's getting eight mil per year.

So I think there is a little bit of the Padres are doing, the Padres are kind of taking a small market chance. Yeah, yeah. It's, Adavino got three for 27, so nine mil a year. Okay. So he was 9-mill. I think Britain was double digits, though. Maybe, but that Zach Brun's got a much better.

Right. I mean, he's got an impressive resume. He was coming off injury and stuff. But, yeah, I think there is a little bit of this. A smaller market team is taking a chance. I ended up in some of the Padres blogs the other day. And from everything I could tell, it seems like after Drew Palm in the trade,

which we'll talk about later, they added on some money and it doesn't seem like they're going to add the impact guy anymore. Like, you know, there's the Sindegard trade rumors. You know, there is Strasbourg and Cole stuff. It seems like with these, they're out on it. And I mean, if you're a Padres fan, you obviously psyched yourself up

and we're talking about how good your rotation is going to be with Strasbourg. It feels like that's out of the equation for now. They still have a lot of good pieces, though. I mean, Machado, Tatee, they got a lot of players for him. Now they got Grisham as well. And they got that center fielder that's going to come up. I forget his name Ray. What's his name?

I forget. But the rotation still, yeah, leaves you want more for sure. I mean, Paddock can be a stud, hopefully. Your guy. Richards, Davies, Lamette, Lachese, Quantrell. I don't know. Love them. That seems a year away.

So we'll see what they do with the rotation. there. Pick up Ryu. There you go. Yeah, throw another guy in there. Yeah, I think, because let me get back in the notes here. I think Drew Palm was the only, yeah, he was the big reliever that went. The smaller relief contract that didn't get heard of, but it's a name you know in baseball, Carl Edwards Jr. got one year.

0.95, so he didn't get a million dollars. and this shows my kind of timing is everything. Carl Edwards, from 2015 to 2018, through 159 innings, 217 strikeouts. His ERA was around 3, and he came into this season, and I'm pretty sure the Cubs were hoping that he could... Well, no, that was Kimbril,

but, you know, he was a giant part of that Cubs bullpen. He falls apart this year. He fits free agency, and he doesn't get one... million dollars. Drew Pomeran's, who was a butchered starting pitchered, essentially. He goes to the bullpen for two months, crushes it, and he gets four years, 34 million. Everything I read said, Carl Edwards had that hesitation in his windup that they told him was fine all spring. Then the season started and they said, you can't do it anymore. And he's got like the stuff, classic baseball saying, but, and this is so rude, but the rumors are like the

mental makeup. Like he, if something goes wrong, he just spirals out of control. And that's what this entire season was. It's pretty low, pretty low, low money there. But what are you going to do? Bad timing. Timings everything. Nationals have agreed to re-sign free agent catcher Jan Gomes to a two-year $10 million contract. And catchers are just dropping like flies off the board. We had Darno go. We had Grandal go. We had Jan Goams go. Who did Houston pick up? Garro.

Garno. We've had Darno and Garno go catching-wise. I mean, Garno's not really anything to whatever. And then there was another catcher as well. Flowers. So there's all the catchers are going. But this is, after Grandal, this is the next big one, right, Jan Goams? Yeah, I'm interested to see.

I mean, he's a guy who's had some. some big years. He's going to be 33 next year. I think Suzuki's back too, so they're going Goem Suzuki. He wasn't great with the Nats. Well, he had a couple bigger seasons in Cleveland, but yeah, I don't know if it's a comfort level. I don't know if they were looking at the market. Maybe they just really like the Suzuki-Gome's pairing, but good for him. And I think this is, what's interesting about this one, I think this goes back to kind of where we started the conversation

that this free agency is moving and guys are getting signed. This is a perfect example of a contract that wouldn't have gotten done until spring training last year. Like Jan Gohams getting 5 mil for two years. I mean, these were the contracts that it was like, hey, let's wait till Valentine's Day

to throw it out there and see if he bites. and now, again, if you exclude the Braves, like a couple of these are happening, and it's good. It's how free agencies should go. Yeah. You know who's left out here, though, with his signing? Who's left out here with this signing?

Chorinos. Yeah, he's still out there. He doesn't have a home. He was expected to be the second most sought-after catcher, and according to, like, a lot of experts that you calculate the average, but that Darno jumps him. Gomes goes home and Flowers goes home, so it's kind of really hard to say like

Chirinos got beat out because there's a I don't know what you want to call it like a kind of a bridge there anyway but Trinos man where's he going to go? Is there a market for him? His analytics he's below average

on everything offensively Exit velocity, hard hit rate, pop time defensively pop time below average, framing below average sprint speed below average Wobah, slugging, batting average. So his peripherals are terrible, but I thought someone would like him. Facial hair above average.

Yeah, and I'll get into the catcher's catcher depth chart next episode, but there's still a few bodies out there. I mean, Cherinos, like you mentioned, Jason Castro, had a really good year last year. Avela's a lefty hitting catcher. Teams normally fall in love with them. Russell Martin still around. Austin Romine.

We've wondered all year doing our Yankee stuff, what kind of opportunity he'll get. And Martine Maldonado. And even your guy, Cervelli's a free agent, Jim. I don't, you know, he'll get invited somewhere. I don't know what kind of role he'll get promised. But, yeah, there's still some catchers out there, which I wonder if the catcher market slows down now

in someone like Terenos who thought he'd get kind of a solid end career payday if he'll be waiting for the invite. Quentin Huberner in the chat says, I assume Maldonado goes where Cole goes. No. And that's actually an interesting thing. The old Gus from Perfect Game with Kevin Costner. Hey, if you're going to spend $33 million a year on the pitcher, you might as well pay the 3 mil for his catcher.

He's let's out with, right? R.A. Dickie and Tote. And what was his name? Everybody? Oh, Tully. Josh Toley. Except Josh Tolly said the Ari Dickey, like they weren't friends. He was like, nah, like I was his personal catcher, but he was a dick.

Yeah, it's just the duty threw that thing out. That's it. Funny. What else do we have? We have the Mariners agreed to a one-year deal with Kendall Graveman, who's coming off Tommy John, and made his way back to the miners this year. the Mariners give him $2 million total. It's $1.5 million for 2020 season,

and if they don't want to bring him back, a $500,000 buyout. So that's $2 million guaranteed. If they do want to bring them back, it's a $3.5 million club option for 2021. Kind of a nice deal for a guy who was good for the A's, got hurt, is recovering. And the Mariners, though,

I mean, does this mean Carl Edwards Jr. for 900K and Kendall Graben for 1.5 are like two options in their rotation? Well, I think Edwards, you know, they're hoping he's just a body in the bullpen from him. And if he can find, you know, what he's done the past four seasons before this one. I mean, he could be an asset for that. Edwards isn't starting. I just mean, they have some cheap options back there. Yeah.

And it's, if you're a Mariners fan, obviously you're, you know, you're not going outside. and banging the trash can and screaming through the neighborhood about these guys. But Kendall Graveman's an interesting one. He's never been the big strikeout guy. He's kind of a sinker ball pitcher, which, you know, those guys are falling more and more out of love with a lot of MLB front offices. But he's got a career 438 ERA, which, okay, you know, I know I've got a couple people triggered just because,

oh, you're going off ERA. Well, yeah, that's how many runs they allowed, and that's still important to a degree. And the thing I wanted to compare it to is Kyle Gibson. Kyle Gibson's a lifetime 4-5-2 ERA guy, and he just got three for 30. So Kendall Graveman's coming off injury. We'll see what he's got. I've heard his V-Los there.

Read one article. I didn't even read it. I don't even think I clicked it. It was just the Google blurb. But I saw someone said Kendall Graveman's velocity is there, so I'll believe it until I see it. And yeah, I mean, what's the worst case? I mean, if he doesn't have it anymore after injury, you took a shot on a guy, I mean, best case, he could go out and twirl 160 innings for Seattle this year.

What Seattle? I never know what they're fucking doing, man. So their rotation now is Gonzales, Kouche, Sheffield, Graveman? Okay. I think they want them battling for it. Yeah. Done is there fixed? I think next year for Seattle is, like, let's see what these guys are.

Can Justice Sheffield be a third or fourth starter? Or are we going to have to figure something out with them? Are Kalenik, are, you know, these young guys that they have as hitters? Who's actually going to be like a piece for the Mariners going forward? And then I'd like to think next year will be like an aggressive Mariners free. I feel like the Mariners refuse to take a stance. are we rebuilding or are we contending? And they just meddle in the middle there.

And it seems unfun for the fans. I think they're, I think they've stated their rebuilding. They brought in their new team and they've had their analytics plan. Who's their new team? I think we were giving them some love previously because they weren't afraid to bring on someone like an Edwin and Carnacion and, you know, use him for a little bit. trade them. Like there's, it's kind of this funny thing that teams. Yeah, they got Juan Fen from the Yanks. Great move. Hey, Juan Fen might be twirling it. They love Juan

Penn. It's their second time snagging them. It's, uh, I don't know. We'll, we'll see what's going on with the Mariners. Their transaction happy. We all know that. Um, let's talk about this Gibson deal. Good luck, Kendall. The Rangers gave Gibson basically the same exact contract they gave Lance Lin. Everyone said they overpaid for Lance Lynn. Lanslin had a really good year. Kyle Gibson now joins Lance Lynn and Mike Minor as a guy they want to succeed with them or excel under their tutelage. Because Kyle Gibson's stats aren't really impressive, but his stuff can be. But this is an overpay with hope. They must really think they can do the same thing they did with the other two guys with Gibson.

and I feel like good for Gibson happy for him. I thought the Yankees were going to be interested, which I wasn't going to be too happy for us a Yankee fan. But dude, another guy, like nothing jumps off the charts with his stuff. He doesn't have like a great fastball. He doesn't have a great K percentage. He's got, yeah, nothing's like crazy, but they think he can be an arm.

Yeah, I remember when, like, When we saw him this year, they were saying that his slider does have like it jumped up. Yeah. Yeah, it ticked up and, you know, maybe he's gotten into the analytics game or whatever it is. I think what they're paying for here is, A, you're right. They believe in their special sauce. They, they ticked Mike Miner up. They ticked Lance Lynn up.

And they believe Kyle Gibson's one of these guys. And we also know the Yankees have tried to make trades for Kyle Gibson at the deadline, a couple times. So there's something in Kyle Gibson's makeup that says we can trend him upwards somehow. And what keeps happening is it's also very similar to Lance Lynn where he didn't get signed in 2018 for a while.

He was at that spring training camp, you know, with Cobb and shit. So he got off to a really bad start, finished strong. Fucking Gibson got E. coli last winter. So he was, like, deathly sick, lost a lot of weight, had he coli. So now the Rangers are probably saying, like, hey, he wasn't fully at full strength. You should see him at full strength.

Wow, this guy's, he's awesome at full strength. Yeah, I think the other thing that's important is that Kyle Gibson eats innings, man. And there's value in that, even if they're not the best innings. Over the past six seasons, he's average 30 starts per year. He's pretty reliable to go out there. And, Jim, he's not exactly your Johnboy starting pitcher staff, but he gives you a chance. He never really got fully knocked around, knocked around in games.

You know, he had a few starts where he gave up five runs or so. But basically, he's going to give you a start, and Texas thinks with a little bit of their magic, can make him a little more Lance Lynn. And I don't know. I think the other reason you and I aren't fully stoked on this is we kind of talked ourselves into Garrett Cole, like new stadium, you know, roll it out Texas. You're stealing him directly from the Astros.

This could open up. People have been talking about Rendon or one of the big three basemen to Texas. And this signing makes a lot of sense for that. Yeah, I'm rooting for it to work out for them because I like when teams pay the guys, a little extra because they believe in them. And I like when the guy takes out faith and comes through. I mean, if you're not rooting for that, you're kind of a dick. But it seems like an overpay from the jump a little bit.

172.6 innings pitch is his average over the last six seasons, which isn't 200, but you don't really get that. There's a guy at the back end of this show who also has the same skill set of being dependable to eat innings that I'm interested in. but we'll get there when we get there. Are there any other transactions? Is that all, really? I'm trying to see.

Stephen Voight. He goes to Arizona, one year three mill. Yep. Good for him, man. He was like to be in a backup, and then he got his shot. He was crazy. I once attended a wedding with Stephen Voight.

Pretty nice. Yeah. Thoughts? It was nice. He was nice. He left early. Pretty nice. Okay. Yeah, I mean, him, again, getting $3 million as a 35-year-old catcher, good for him.

The only other thing that was of note was Josh Harrison, signed a minor league contract with Philly. And I don't know. I mean, he seems like a prototypical guy that if he has a solid camp and they need a little utility, he could make that team easily. He was with the Tigers, right? I believe he was with the Tigers. I forget if they released him or if they did anything with them or if they just let them... I mean, this might seem like a cop-out excuse for her. I'm not going to blame Josh Harrison, a career vet for not playing well on the Tigers last year. How do you get up for fucking that?

Man, and he, I mean, Pittsburgh to Detroit. He was an All-Star in 2017. He's been pretty brutal since. So it would be he's a fun player when he's right. It would be cool if he could get recharged by being with a real baseball team. All right. Let's take a quick break. And then we're going to come back and we're talking about this big old trade between the Padres and the Braves.

Trade alert, trade alert, trade alert, trade alert, trade alert, trade alert, trade alert, the first big trade of the off season. And this is what I mean. We had what? We were just talking about like four or five signings. Granted, some of them are small, some of them are big. ish, none of them are huge. This trade, four guys moving, two teams involved. It's not huge, but it's such a nice appetizer trade for this offseason.

I'm a fan of it. And if you haven't heard what happened, the Padres and Brewers have broken open the trade market. They swap a bunch of young players. So the Brewers traded Trent Grisham and Ritey, Zacham. and righty Zach Davies to San Diego, and the Padres are giving them Luis Urius and Eric Lauer in return. So I'm not to knock like Davies,

but Trent Grisham and Luis Urius, the two position players, are kind of the interesting pieces here. Trent Grisham wasn't, like, Trent Grisham wasn't that high of a prospect. I think he never really, like, dominated in minor leagues, but he came up and he put together really good effort, for the brewers at the end of the stretch. He started in the wild card game when Yelot got hurt.

And Luis, your eyes, is kind of the opposite. He is fantastic AAA numbers. Now he's got very, very, very small played appearance, like 300 in the majors, and they're not great. But he's only 22 years old. So the way I break this down is the brewers are receiving the highest ceiling and lowest ceiling pieces in this trade. I think Euryas, am I saying that right?

Yeah. I think he's the highest ceiling. And I think Eric... What is it? Urius. Urius is the highest ceiling. Eric Lauer is probably the most like, blah. And that may be being rude.

Maybe I'm talking about my butt. I think Trent Grisham is a good now player, and it's also needs. The brewers are pretty doing well with outfielders. They got cane, they got Yelich, they got Braun, they got Gamble, and I think they have a rookie coming up. They don't have any short stops. They want to move on for Marcia. They're going to put Urias at shortstop, Jake, which is a big gamble.

That's where I think now he grades out better as a second baseman. So now you're taking this dude, 22-year-old high ceiling, and you're going to just plug him in as your shortstop, and he hasn't proven it with the bat yet. There's a lot of risk here. There's a lot of reward. Trent Grisham was surplus for the brewers, so they get rid of him.

Zach Davies is a starter. He's going to go be in the Padres rotation now. He's kind of like an average starter, maybe he can tap anything. But the interesting is Eric Lauer, he fits the brewer's mold as a third. thrower. Like they are going to, they get a guy now that they can just use wherever they want, which is what they want. So those are my initial thoughts, I guess. What are your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I'll, I'll stay with the pitchers for now. I think when you, when you lay everything out there on paper, I mean, Davies is better than Lauer. Davies has a cup. Davies has three seasons with 28 plus starts, whereas ERA is under four, which I mean, that's a, that's a pretty solid starting pitcher. 2018, he was hurt. He had kind of a bad year. He's not a big strikeout dude, but I mean, he had a 3-5-5 ERA last year. That's nothing a, nothing to shake a shoe at.

What's that phrase? You can't swing a cat in here without hitting a celebrity. Yeah, you can't swing a cat at Zach Davies without him having an okay year last year. And yeah, I know the analytics crew would want to come at me. his FIP was a lot higher. His FIP was 4, 5, 6. So I don't know. Maybe this was a,

and he makes $5 million more than I think Lauer will make this year. So I think it was San Diego bringing in a better arm and willing to pay the money. It was Milwaukee, like you're saying. I think Lauer's a young guy who he threw his innings, and maybe they can find something to make him a little better than his 4-5 ERA or whatever it was. But I think pitching-wise, you give Davies the leg up here. On baseball savant, you know, they have that little meter where the ball slides from poor to average to great for each analytic.

You know, you've ever seen those graphics for players? Yeah. So Eric Lauer doesn't have a single bar that's above average. Fastball velocity, fastball spin, hard hit, exit velocity, X-slugging, ex-batting average. You know what he's got. Jim. Miles and miles apart. He's a lefty that can throw innings, babe.

Yeah. That's a, that's a language that always speaks in this sport. What do you got on the position players? Because I think those are the more interesting topics here. That's where this does get really fun. Because I know, like you said, no offense to Davies and Lauer, but you don't see those guys, you know, necessarily game two of the, of the NLDS going out and shutting seventh shutout. prove me wrong, guys. I'm more than open to that.

The Arias Grisham thing is interesting. So Grisham used to be kind of a top 100 prospect. He had a couple tough years in the minor leagues. Then he turned it on. He gets the call up when brawny goes down and they throw them at the top of their lineup for this playoffs run, which, again, how different does this playoff look? That's the other part that sucks here. I was so excited for the Grisham redemption story in Milwaukee. And now they've traded him away. He's going to be hated in Milwaukee forever. I think they'll clap when he gets back and they'll apologize. They're nice Midwestern people. Yeah, in the first inning, after the, after the fourth, after a couple

brouhahas, I think they'll do it. But you're right and you were all over it, Jim. The big thing here is Arias playing shortstop. Tatez and Machado are on the left side for the Padres, so that was pretty well locked up. And I think the question mark is because he does have a really good hit tool. In the minor leagues, he's hit over 300. He's expected to hit. He's only played 83 games. The numbers aren't good, but he's, like you mentioned, 22, very young.

It's going to be, can he play shortstop? And I think that's where the brewers are taking a chance, and they clearly believe that. He's listed at 5'9. That's a little smaller than you like to see your shortstop, I think. but hey, I like it for the brewers. You're taking a chance. And I mean, what's the worst case that you maybe you have to slide them over to third base or something like that? I think, I don't know.

Maybe this is a mental thing that I need to get over. But it feels like if you have an infielder that can hit, that's still slightly more valuable than an outfielder that can hit a little bit. I don't know. I would be very interested to see how these trade discussions go down because you're right. We normally don't get kind of a, when we see apples for oranges trades in the MLB, normally it's like, all right, well, you're going to get, you know, this guy, he's 28, you're going to get him for a year and a half, hope he does well for you. You give us a prospect, and maybe he pans out, and that's kind of the risk reward.

These are two young MLB players that are going to be playing off the writ. Neither have accrued a year of service time either. So they're like contracts is basically an equal swap. You don't see that a lot. It's just like need for need or belief for belief. It's interesting. For belief. That must have been the scariest part in the trade room was,

and this is something that you've wrote me into a little bit, is teams don't trade the prospects they love. It just doesn't happen. So if you're San Diego and Milwaukee, I think you're both having kind of a, that standoff from the office. office where it's like, wait, you're okay trade in Arias? Well, you're okay trade in Grisham, right?

Yeah, I read somewhere that neither are like highly thought of within their own organization. So it's just fresh start for both of them. Yeah, good. Urius crushed AAA last season, just to let you know. 315 batting average 398, 398, 398 on base percentage in 73, 333. three games. 998 OPS.

It is the Pacific Coast League. But the on base percentage, air doesn't really come into that. Yeah, I mean, throughout the minor's leagues, he hit 308 with a 397 on base. So it's canny picket it short? And I think that's the, I don't know if it's risk reward,

but that's, if you're the Brewers, it's like, okay, if you throw Arias out there and it doesn't look like he's going to be, able to pick it at shortstop? All right. Then, you know what? Slide him over to second base or third base. Like I don't think his defensive tools are bad. I just think, I mean, think about it. If they're willing to give him the shot at their shortstop job, he should be able to pick it at second base where he's played, let's see, he's played the majority of his minor league innings there. Do you? But they've got Heura there. Yeah. Do you like the Brewer's Depp chart now? It's kind of good. They got Heura at

second they're going to have arcia or euryas short think euryas shaw they have him as their third baseman uh they they need a shit they need someone right now this has shaw as their third baseman and their first baseman and they have their backup first baseman as ryan brawn so i guess the brurs need a first baseman yeah i think uh maybe they'll fully move brawn to first base um i don't that was i don't understand that might have been blind to speculation, but, I mean, he's, he's, he's had a few years. Are there any first baseman available? I don't know.

Tames. Smoke. See, Tames, who, who came from the brewers. Yeah, they're, they're a little thin at the corners right now. They need Travis Shaw to figure it out, man. He had a terrible year. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, my God.

Hey, they've got, the brewers have two prospects. outfielders, Joe Gray and Corey Ray. That'd be cool if they... Corey and Joe Gray. Corey Ray and Joe Gray. They roamed the Alphillian. Move brought you to first. I like that a lot.

Yeah, the first base options are Howie Kendrick. Edwin and Connoisseon, who I think he's mostly a DH, but we saw him play some first base. Todd Frazier. Todd would be a fun guy in Milwaukee. Play a little third and first for them. That would be fun. Tell him and Shaw to just fucking figure it out.

Hey, fucking figure it out. I like, I don't, this trade, it's going to be easy to grade, I think, and I like that about it. Like in four years, I think we'll be able to definitively be like, that guy, F team won. Yeah. Because it's so equal with contracts and money and shit, just an outfielder for an infielder. Yeah, I mean, that's. that's what it is. Like the arms are going to throw, and maybe we're wrong.

Like maybe Davies is a lot superior to Lauer, but yeah, I mean, this is Arias v. Grisham, which we don't see that shit a lot in baseball. I like the idea of the brewers saying, like, all right, you can have Davies, but we need an arm back. And Podger's saying, do you want a starter? Do you want a reliever? Like, no, we want neither. Thrower. Give me a guy that can do everything.

And they're like, well, allow her, but like, he's not that. We'll take him. Yeah. Okay. Cool. And if you're Lauer, I mean, look what just happened to Drew Pomeran's. You're stoked. Yeah, right? You get to go get to be whatever you want to be. I'll do anything, coach. Just give me that. So we're happy for everyone in this trade. Okay, cool. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back with some odds and ends. Jake, we just clapped closing the last segment. I got to tell.

I'm going to open up this next part of the show mad and might be going out of order here. But God fuck the Orioles. Damn. And baseball. Okay. Jonathan Vlar is set to make $10.something million in arbitration because he's been playing well for a team that is actively trying to lose. The Orioles have waived Vilar because they don't want to pay him. Even though if they paid him, they'd still be like under $80 million on the year.

And he would still be a serviceable good player for them. But they're so committed to being bad. They're not even done being bad yet. They've had two seasons of being fucking awful. And they're still like, nope, we're still in the bad section of this rebuild. So they wave them. No one picks up Valar because no one else wants to. to pay him $10 million, knowing that if no one picks him up, you can then sign him for less money.

And that's just a fucked system for Vilar. It sucks. Dude, a dude plays well enough that arbitration says he's worth $10 million. Every team says, nope, not paying it. What the fuck? That's got to be a slap in the face. Now, he can, if he declared waivers, if a team signs him, he might get a two-year deal, lower average money per year, but a little more comfort in knowing he's got a second year.

But it's just one of those things we're like, this sucks, man. This isn't like fun. Yeah, the system seems to be a little bit off. And I think you're right. I think there's a couple positive spots to it if you are Valar. Is that, I mean, you're essentially, you'd be hitting free agency earlier. And, you know, you can leave Baltimore. So in that case, you're right. And I mean, he's kind of, he's coming off his best season as a pro. You know, he had almost an 800 OPS.

He played every game for the Orioles. I don't know. There's a spin zone there that he hits free agency earlier. And, you know, he can play somewhere he wants to play. play. But you're right. For what the system is supposed to be, it's completely broken. Yeah.

I mean, and then the Orioles, now they're also trying to trade Dylan Bundy. And I like them for that. That's smart. That's good. That's good because Dylan Bundy can be useful to another team. He has two years left on his deal, and his values probably, I mean, it's not through the roof. but this is the guy I was saying,

much like Gibson, he eats innings. He's a reliable pitcher. If you need a four or five that maybe he's got the armed talent, you believe that you can make his results better, he'll eat the innings and he'll go out there every 30 starts a year. So they're trying to trade Bundy, and I actually think that's a smart time for the Orioles to try and trade him and get him out of there.

That's nice of them because he has, seen all this shit. Remember when he didn't cover home last year and I did the breakdown on it and people were mad at him for not covering home. Then when you actually look at the breakdown, it's like, okay, yeah, he's right. Fuck that. So get him out of there. I'm interested to see who who's going to be want Dylan Bundy. A team will want him. And Jimmy and I get a bad, not a bad rap, but we're not big time prospect huggers. I like prospects, but they're not guarantees at all. I mean, you're very firm on your stance of like, hey, if you're getting some good MLB value, a prospect's a prospect.

Dylan Bundy, 2013, was the number two prospect in baseball. 20, and then he kind of toiled around back and forth a little bit. As late as 2015, he was the number eight prospect in baseball. He had some arm injuries. His stuff isn't what it was. You know, and there's still some numbers to like about him. I think what's funny, the first article when I just typed Dylan Bundy's name into Google to get his stats up there, it was should the Minnesota Twins trade for Dylan Bundy?

And that's one of those like, yeah, Kyle Gibson out, Dylan Bundy in. Now I'm rooting for that. Yeah. Dylan Bundy, I always feel bad for him because the Baltimore Orioles broadcast love to zoom really, really in on the pitcher's face. like just so zoomed in mass and cut the shit. And Dylan Bundy's gets flush with red cheeks. He looks like our roommate in college after drinking vodka, you know. And I just, it's get him away from the Baltimore broadcast.

It's bad for him. Don't send him to L.A. Because they do that same shit. Okay. So we've ruled out Baltimore and L.A. for Dill. He needs to go to a team whose broadcast doesn't like. extreme close-ups. They were doing them no favors.

I'll root for that. That's analytics. All right. The other odds and ends here, the Pirates hired a manager, Derek Shelton, twins bench coach. So,

twins got pillaged. All of their coaches are gone now. I retweeted the tweet about it. I'll bring it up for people that aren't aware of how many coaches the twins lost. Because it's, it's pretty funny or sad or good how'd you categorize it yeah i think it's it's supposed to be a sign of a good time of good things but if you're a fan of the team you're like shit yeah okay um their bench

coach they've lost their bench coach derick shellen hitting coach james rousson assistant pitching coach Jeremy Heffner, MLB or minor league hitting coordinator, Peter F. That name can't be pronounced Fatsy, but it looks like it could. So I'm going to say Peter Fatsy. And their catching coordinator, Tanner Swanson. So good for the twins, bad for the twins, however you want to view that. Graduating a lot of guys to other teams. Rockle Belly's manager of the year, carries on. Is the window washers outside your window? No, someone in the apartment above us just dropped something, which has alerted noodle to protect me.

Good. Which is odd, because I've strictly told him, like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about me ever. Yeah, if I don't make it, don't fret. You got anything on this higher? I mean, I honestly have no thoughts because I don't know a thing about Derek Shelton. wish you the best. I hope they give them a lot of leash

because Pittsburgh, who knows what's going to go on in Pittsburgh? We're rooting for some Ben Charrington big moves. Yeah, good for him. And I'll give an assistant coach spin zone for the twins. I've heard this spun two different ways. There's the classic way of if your team loses their assistant coaches, it becomes like kind of a cop out like, oh, well, we had new coordinators this year. You know, it was tough for the team to put it all together.

We lost, you know, three important coaches. The other spin zone I had, and this was from the Patriots in Alabama, which is probably just tied to their head coaches people. But they said that their assistant coaches change so much that it's a good thing for the players because they get new and different coaching. So there's your twin spin zone. Oh, he was the, this guy, Shelton, was the hitting coach for the raise. And I wanted to see if he was the hitting coach for the raise when Trevor Plouf was there.

Because Plouf, we had Plouf on the show. It'll drop Wednesday. And he was talking about the hitting coach while he was on the raise. But it's not this dude. He got fired in September of 2016 and Plufe was on the raise in 2017. So never mind. Don't even worry about it. Damn. Don't even.

Shohay Atani was cleared yesterday to begin throwing off the mound per GM Billy Epler. He'll do that and then be good to go for the season, hopefully. That's kind of cool for the Angels. They still need another arm, though. They still need... Yeah.

They need so much. Oh, my God. Yeah, man. Don't go look at the Angels pitching depth chart. They got Popple. Pablo Sandoval is the sixth. Let them rip. Patrick Sandoval, my bad.

Yeah, I think, I think Haney's kind of your classic left-in-the-rotation. They're hoping Otani comes back. They're going to sign someone. It's what quality. And I feel like I'm missing someone. But they basically they said if they sign a major free agent, they're going to be one. If they sign a major free agent and Otani's healthy,

they're a starting pitcher short. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, they need a pitcher. All right. The other thing is... And their lineup's not great. What have you been doing Angels GM?

You don't... Dude, their depth chart right now is... Trout and a bunch of people... You don't matter. You have a cheat code in center field. And you essentially have nothing else. Yeah. Simmons is a good defense.

defensively. Lestella was good for a while before he broke his leg. Yeah, man. I don't know. The Rangers are interested in Miguel Anduhar. I don't know if that's two Yankees, but great. Pick them up. And the twins are bringing back their powder, powder blue uniforms. And I'm actually loving what Nike's doing with these uniforms. I don't know if it's Nike's having a say, but Padres are going back to Brown. Twins are going back to baby blues every now and then.

The brewers had some cool uniforms. I didn't like the one, but I like the other two. I'm excited. It's going to be colorful for the MLB. Yeah. Bring some color to baseball. Make it fun. That's the goal.

You got anything else for you in this show? How long have we been going? Oh, we're on an hour. I don't think so. I think the only thing I throw your way, which we've teased ourselves about doing this. I don't know if you're ready. Do we do an elevator talk? Who?

Yeah, let me pull up the wheel. If anyone started listening to us in the off season, this is something we do during the season. And it's, we let's, yeah, we're going to start implementing this again. Every episode, we're going to spin a wheel. It's going to land on a random team. We get to re-spin twice because sometimes we talk about teams a lot during the show. And if you're stuck in an elevator with a fan of this team, we're just giving you some fodder.

Jake and I go to our, we go to our websites, we browse our stuff. as fast as we can and just just just to be in the know about this team here we go new york yankees who the new york yankees is what it landed on you want to do it i'm not well versed but the yankees currently have they need another starter they have five guys you need seven guys going into a season there are four and five are j a hap and jordan montgomery And that's not really the best. You want another guy. You want to be able to slide one of the top three down.

They need a starter that's going to slide Paxton down, Severino down, Tanaka down, at least one of them, hopefully two, hopefully three. But they need another starter that can be a one, two, or three so that everything gets slid down. And Jordan Montgomery becomes a safety or a hat becomes a what have you out of the pen. they they lost a lot of leadership kind of if gardener doesn't return and if batances doesn't return and sebassi is retiring so there's a lot of the old guard that's been around been in that room for eight years or so leaving if gardener doesn't return but i think gardener will so that's interesting the yankees hired a new catching defensive catching coordinator

They poached the guy from Tanner Smith from the twins who just made Garver have a breakout season. So hopefully that can help Gary Sanchez. They focused defensively. They revamped their entire pitching coordination from, they fired every single pitching coach in the organization besides the AAA guy and brought in entirely new guys. So that's something. Is there anything fun about the Yankees that? Do people care? I feel like people hate the Yankees so much.

I don't care about this. I don't know. I think your pitching thing, the Yankees fans are really hopeful that they sign. Kohler Strasbourg, I know that sounds obvious, but what Jimmy was saying, and it made my eyes light up this off season, is like, Severino, Paxton, Tanaka,

as your 1, 2, 3, you're like, yeah, that's a good rotation. If you make those guys a 2, 3, and 4 with Strasbourg or Cole, it makes the rotation insane to go along, with a lineup that's been really solid. I think the big, if you're a Yankee hater, or if you don't care too much, whatever, if your team has holes,

if you have holes at first base or maybe corner outfield, and we just talked about, we just ripped on the A's, we just talked about who are the Brewers going to throw out there. The Yankees had so many injuries last year that they had a lot of guys step up and they have a lot of bodies on the roster that we think that there's going to be a trade. And it's guys that we think overachieved.

Like if you're not familiar with Mike Ford, go look him up. He went nut job. Like if you're a team looking for a sleeper, cheap first baseman, Mike Ford would be a guy to look into. So the Brewers are going to get Mike Ford? Mike Ford to the Brewers, Clint Fraser to the Angels. And yeah, I don't know. I guess that would be my thing.

If you're a fan of another team, go look at the Yankees, some of their stats from last year and be like, wait, who's this Clint Frazier guy? So we pillage him and Yankee fans will be like, oh, you can take him. Yeah, no one's looking at Clint, his values. They have two guys, Clint Frazier and Miguel Andhuar, who were in trade talks after 2017, 2018, and they held on to him. And Andrew Har was second and rookie of year voting in 2018, had a good year. Those guys, now the Yankees probably are dying to trade them, but they hold no value. We know they're shopping And Du Har really hard, and the Rangers may be interested, is what we're hearing. And that'd be cool.

I like And Du Har, but he just doesn't have a spot. And if the Yankees do successfully trade And Du Har, look for them to pick up a utility infielder, like, or maybe trade for, like, jerks and pro far from the A's as, like, you know, a utility bench guy. Something like that. But whatever. Scared talking about the Yankees. I feel like everyone hates when we do it. Sorry. Sorry.

What did you say about World Series? Nothing. Okay. All right. That ends elevator talk. Thanks for joining with us and coming on the elevator. Jake, any final words that closes out this episode? Get excited.

Jimmy mentioned it casually. We've got a midweek episode coming out with a new friend of the family, Trevor Plouffe. Trevor Plouf. He joined us for like a full hour, talked about a top. stuff. Talked about the Astros. Talked about his career. Talked about some general baseball questions. It'll be out on Wednesday. So enjoy. Rate, review, subscribe, leave a comment, do whatever you want. Thank you very much. We are out of here. And everyone thank the stove for being at least somewhat hot. Jake sucks.