Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - 78 | CBA For Dummies: The Business Side of Baseball

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

Plouffe came on to discuss the upcoming CBA and how close or far baseball is to going on strike. We also heard from special guest, Kyle Gibson on the matter! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's going on, everybody? It's Talking Baseball. We got the Plouffe episode, and we are talking about the business of baseball. Let's do it. All right, what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Talking Baseball. My name is John Boy, and I have Jake and Trevor Plouf with me,

and we are going to be talking about a really fun, not controversial, not tricky subject at all. The collective bargaining agreement. This is your first episode. Trevor Plouf has joined the program, and the Wednesday night, Thursday morning show is his. He discusses the topics and brings them to us. And we all, I think, are interested in this, but also a little tepid to get into it.

Before we do that, I need to give a big shout out to all of our patrons. And we got a lot recently. So here they are. Patrick McKinstree. Drop the mic. Hayden Woodward. Forest Ross. Matt Frye.

What's up, Matt? Ryan J.F. Luis Flores. Samantha Martino. Jason Foley. Nate Uribe. Annette Fago. Yaakov Chanana Mendel Bagelstein.

Jake Valdez. Samuel Williams. Poppy Massey. Wes Lili Arra Aria. Stephen H. Taylor or Tair. I think I forgot the L. I wrote that one. Billy Robertson, Elvin Liu.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Patreon.com slash Jimmy, Johnboy Media. Pretty good, huh? That's pretty good. And the names this week weren't as made up sounding as last week. Just one.

One Bagelstein. That was interesting. Yakov Chanana Mendel Bagelstein? Orderline offensive. Who knows? But thanks, thanks, patrons. Yeah, thanks, guys. What if that's his real name, man?

Come on. Yeah. That's kind of what I was wondering is, like, people make up these names or does it have to be like a legit thing? Big time. Sometimes they make them up for sure. Okay. Whatever. It's 2020, baby.

We're all inclusive here. Yeah. The fairest pod in the land. We decided that. Fair pot. Not a foul pot. You'll hear about that in an upcoming guest appearance, but we won't say who, unless you probably already know. I don't know if they know that or not, but I guess I'll just start it off.

We're like going to get into this and basically with the Wednesday episode, it seems like I'm going for the Hollywood actor. One for me, one for you. For me is the deep dives. It's kind of what I'm interested in. I think it kind of is going to be what separates us from a lot of other baseball pods. It's getting into the business stuff, the grimy stuff, the stuff that you hear in passing, but nobody wants to, you know, talk about, because it is difficult to talk about.

It's difficult to understand. But hopefully that's kind of what we're going to help with today. And I think we're labeling this CBA for dummies. Not calling everybody a dummy because we're including ourselves in that. We're trying to figure out everything with it as well. So that's the episode. That's what we're going to do. And I guess we'll just kind of dive right in unless you guys got something to add.

on that. I just want to shout out the brand for dummies that made all those books back in the late 90s early 2000. It's a genius marketing plan. So, you really was. Good job by them. I think they still sell. And yeah, I'll, uh, Trev, we, we bust

balls, we're guys. Um, but no, this is a, uh, and as I think you're seeing and we, we, I kept tagging you jokingly because a couple people kept mentioning they wanted to hear stuff about this because if you're a baseball fan, I mean, this is something you should care about because it's crazy how much this dictates about the sports, the sport or sports.

I mean, if you're NFL, I mean, if you're NBA, how much this stuff impacts the game. I think as you get older, you do get more into it. And it was right after Jake said that, that Trevor Plufe's Mike decided to not be working. I think it was my fault. Right now, he's giving a very beautiful introduction speech to the CBA, the collective bargaining, agreement and his history with it. And as Mike turns on right about now. It was established in 2017. I was actually part of the bargaining committee for the players. So I have a little bit of insight there. And this collective, this agreement runs through

2021. So we have where this is all going down. There won't be another agreement until then, unless the two sides decide they want to. Or you can also extend the agreement. that's a possibility i don't see the both sides coming together beforehand and saying hey let's hash something else out just because it is such a long and difficult process can i uh trev before we dive further and further into this with the with the cba on the player's side of things is it is it is it expected if you're an melb player you should be pretty in tune with it or is it like some guys are just like, hey, man, I play baseball. Like, I respect you do it and go help us out and I appreciate you.

I mean, what's the scale like in the MLB locker room? Because I don't know. The way you're passionate about it, I'm picturing guys not caring. And I'm almost seeing like, dude, you need to care about this more. You know, it's a little mixture. And I will say that as a union, as a Play's Association, we are all, I mean, I guess I can't really speak for them anymore because I'm not in the players association, although I did I did get reassured recently that you're always in the players association.

You're our player rep, so. Yeah, I was a player rep. And so basically, you know, there are a lot of guys that just want to focus on baseball. And I totally understand it. The game is very hard and to have to deal with some of the meetings and other things that you have to do to really dive into this. It just takes away time. So like I said, we're all on the same page and guys want to, you know, if there is something that the union wants, everyone's behind it. But there are guys that go above and beyond. They're the player reps, the assistant player reps, guys that are part of the executive committee. Those guys do a little bit more. And their job is to relay to the rest of the guys, what's going on. You go around, you have, you know, monthly meetings just kind of saying this is where we're at. You know, do you have any topics that you want to bring up? Is there anything?

that's going on that you're seeing and if there is we're going to find a way to address it we're going to get an answer for you if i don't know there's a whole people um you know from tony clark all the way down to the player reps the assistant player reps and so it's it's a league-wide thing and i mean i'll challenge the players and i think they'll know as as you know the time gets closer you got to be in there you got to try to learn things you got to try to understand the situation because it does affect, as we're seeing now, it affects the entire league and you're part of that league, you know, and it's not just about money and free agency and all this stuff. The CBA covers, I mean, we talked about this a little bit before.

The CBA covers anything from what's in the clubhouse, you know, as far as meals, you know, recently, in this CBA, the current one, one of the main things that we got changed was, you know, there is now a there's a format for what can be served pre and post game for your meals in the clubhouse before it was just kind of free reign you didn't know what you're eating and if you're an athlete and you're trying to eat healthy sometimes it wasn't even possible so we had that put in and so it goes from simple stuff like that all the way up into the competitive balance tax which we'll get into it in a little bit so it's a wide ranging agreement that affects all facets of the game. So it's a very in-depth piece. And like I said, I really encourage any players that are

part of the game now, even mind to the guys if you're, you know, if you think you're going to have a chance to be part of it, like do your research, get into it because it does matter. I mean, it covers everything. When you say that, it's true. I was reading it and it's awesome to see the tiniest details. Like the stipends for away trips. And if you have to be at the field at, if you have to be at the airplane at 1 o'clock, you get a full day. But if you have to be there at 101,

you get a half day's pay. And I was like, big leagher is still getting like $30 a day? Like, how do they do that? That sounds cool. That was a big change. Yeah, that was a big change as well. I think we should link the agreement.

You could just go online and Google, you know, MLB-CBA, and you'll be able to find it. and you can read it. It's not like a fun read, but if you're into baseball, you can really just, you can go as deep as you want into it.

And obviously, Jim, you sound like you had a good time. Yeah, I also like that every clubhouse. Every clubhouse has to have a whirlpool. Some other thing I didn't know, like all the equipment that they have to provide in the away clubhouse.

Like when did they fight for the whirlpool? When that gone? Oakland must have been pissed. That was a big change for them, you know um it's just there were Oakland's a great example for that like if you're a visiting team there you know you had to share the weight room and then doing that you only had a certain amount of hours during the day and just doesn't provide what you need as you know a professional elite athlete so that stuff like that just makes sense you know every visiting team now needs to have a place

like a batting cage for themselves and that just wasn't a thing you know six years ago but now if you're a stadium, you need to figure out a way to get a batting cage in. And there are some very interesting ones in the big leagues. Oakland, for instance, has one. You have to walk through center field and go into, like, a storage area. And there's just, like, a random batting cage. And the Orioles had to clean out a closet and essentially just put up a small batting cage in there. So, like, there's a lot of things.

Teams had to figure out ways to get it done. But it's definitely a lot of that stuff helps. the players, you know, immensely. That stuff was cool. What was the other thing? It was like a spectrogram or something like that. I don't know what it was. A what?

I said something. I just made up a word. It was something I didn't know. So basically my point is if you're interested in like the really weird little details that this thing covers, like it covers everything as big as the big topic we're going to talk about and the competitive balance tax. And then even as small as like, how much money does a player get a day? so yeah a lot of different a lot of different stuff i think that's a good segue into

basically what i think is affecting the game more than anything now and that is the cbt that's the competitive balance tax it's essentially what teams are using as a soft salary cap now and as jake pointed out last night on his twitter baseball does not have a salary cap this is not a salary cap. And its original purpose was to kind of guard against runaway spending teams, just so a team couldn't buy up every single free agent in the market and take it that away from everybody else. What it's turned into, you know, whether it, and I have some thoughts on that, why it's turned into this, but it's basically turned into a soft cap that teams will use as a negotiating tactic when you're negotiating your free agent money.

or if they're going after players, we can only take so much money or give this up because we're trying to stay under this tax. And it's being, in my opinion, it's being misused as a salary cap. But before we deep dive into it, I don't know if you guys want to talk about something that you have a question about it or not.

If you don't, we can just kind of go into it. Well, my thing, the first thing is, I thought it was funny when I was first really getting into Twitter and stuff. People were talking about cheap hal and the Yankees. And I'm a guy that grew up and got into baseball too early. And everyone told me the Yankees bought their dynasties. And, you know, I don't know how many cafeteria fights I went through that I was fighting off the Yankees by their dynasties with their core four and all that stuff. And it's, I think this is a really fun example because I love anything that it has seemingly a good.

intention, right? Because I get it. Like I, I want every team in Major League Baseball to feel they have a shot. And that's not in genuine. Like, I, I put myself and be like, dude, if I was a Royals fan and I love baseball as much as I did, like, there would definitely be days I hate the New York Yankees or maybe the Los Angeles Dodgers who just did a trade that has, that's tied into this a little bit. So I think it is, it is funny to see, um, the secondary effect. There's a really good phrase for it that I'm blanking on right now when something has an expected effect, but something else happens. Ripple effect. I don't know.

Butterfly effect. Yeah, we're a fair. Yeah, we're a fair pot, not a foul. Cause and effect. So, yeah, and it's, it really is right now, basically a soft cap. And it's not, people start making up different excuses. and you start pointing at general managers. And I'm sorry to get to them ahead of myself

because I want to start talking mokey and stuff. But that was a lot of babbling about nothing. That's my job. I think that's the point we need to make is it's not a cap. And it wasn't intended to be a cap. And when you're doing these agreements, you know, this was not what it was intended to be. But I want to go over exactly what it is.

Because I feel like we always kind of like glance over it. We say, oh, well, they're just trying to get under the CBT. and that's fine business-wise it makes sense. Well, I kind of want everyone to understand what the hell that means because I feel like a lot of people just say shit and they don't even know what they're talking about. So we don't want to be that pod that just kind of says, you know, we talk in, you know, vagetries

and don't really tell you what's really going on. So, Jimmy, you got something? No, no, I like this stuff because when you get to that top threshold, I know it's not a salary cap. It's pretty brutal taxes. you want to lay it out for everyone so they can understand like that it's uh it's wild i'm going to try to go slow because this is cba for dummies and i am a dummy and jake is definitely a dummy so i'm going to go really slow so here's the outline of it now i actually want to preface this by saying

i think this is was intended by MLB i think they did this on purpose i think during those being a part of the collective bargaining committee for the players, what they were trying to do at that point was divide us. And I don't know if you guys remember, all they could talk about was an international draft. And that was a big topic. They were trying to, you know, push for that saying, you know, international spending is kind of out of whack. Let's get everybody on the level playing field. And the guys who are already subject to a draft, you know, Canadians, Puerto Ricans, and And the guys in the States were like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

You know, we have to go through the draft. We can't just go get free agent money right away. Like, let's put everyone in the draft. And obviously guys, you know, from Japan or Korea or the Latin American countries or wherever, anybody else that was international was like, no, we don't want that. We want to be able to choose where we want to go. What's the best situation from us? So it was kind of like a divide and conquer type thing.

Or what I like to tell people was like sleight of hand, like a magician showing this hand over here. So they were doing that. were doing they were talking qualifying offers that was also a big topic there and they were acting like these were the two big issues that we need to tackle this is where they were going to be really firm on and while they were doing that and while we were discussing that i think the cbt slid under and it was not raised enough and that's why we're in the position we're at now the cbt this year the competitive balance tax, the threshold is $208 million. Next year, it's $210 million. And those should have risen to maybe, you know, $220, $2.30, stuff like that. Then we really necessarily wouldn't be

having these issues because they didn't rise along with player salaries or values to the franchise. They kind of stayed stagnant. So like I said, I think this will, I think this was intentional by the owners. and they got it done. You think the owners were like, man, they're hung up on these jacuzis, let's slip this in while they're fighting for that? I think they were just like, hey, well, it's focused on these issues, and while they're focusing on these issues, whether it be jacuzzis or different stuff, like I said,

like the international draft, which they knew was never going to happen, just logistically can't happen. They kind of, you know, had these numbers out and didn't, like I said, raise them enough essentially. Yeah. Okay, so like I said, $208 million this year, $210 million next year. That's the threshold that teams are trying to stay under. Okay.

Once a team goes over that number, they get taxed the first time 20%. And it's important to note to people, it's not 20% on the entire payroll. It's 20% on the amount that you go over. So $208 million this year, say a team went and spent $215 million on their payroll. they're going to be paying 20% on $7 million. Second time offense goes up to 30%. Third time offense goes up to 50%. And again, these are all taxed the number above the competitive tax threshold,

not on the entire payroll. So I think that's very important that people know that. So kind of what we're seeing now is teams are willing to go over it that first time because they're paying 20% on it. But once it gets second and third, it starts to compound a little bit. And that's when they're starting to use like, hey, we don't want to go over this. And saying that, there's another tier. It gets deeper, which I love.

Next thing is called a surcharge tax. And I'm going to call it a tier, a surcharge tier. So the first tier is $228 million. dollars this year 230 next year so you have your we're going to get deep here a lot of numbers $208 million then you have $20 million that is only subject to that first tax at 20% as you go over it if you go over $228 million there's an additional 12% tax on that money and then second time you go over it Or if you go over the second tier, which is this year, 248, next year, 250, you're getting taxed at a 45% tax clip on that.

So you're adding that onto the competitive balance taxes, called a surcharge tax. So teams are getting up there. You know, the maximum, the maximum we're talking now, like if you're a third-time offender on the competitive balance tax and you're over the second tier, you're essentially getting taxed 95 cents on a dollar. as you go over.

So to me, it makes a little bit of sense why some of these teams decide we got to sell some assets to get back under because once you get back under the threshold, the entire thing resets. Yeah, so if you go over the top in the third part, the Yankees are at $243 million,

and really $244. And what's it this year? It's $208 this year. But that's the first. one. What's the next step? 248? The first surcharge, the first surcharge tier this year is 228. So if the Yankees, I don't know what their peril was last year, but if they're getting, say they're the first year offender on this, which I think they are. They'll be getting taxed 32 cents on the dollar.

Yeah. So this is on the money going over that first initial 208. This is their second year going over the tax for the Yankees, just because I'm close to this team. And they have the highest payroll. have a 244 million on the books for 2020. Now, with rookies coming up and you have to leave room for trades, they're probably going to be very close to that 248. They're $4 million away right now.

And if they go over that and then they go over it again next year, if they go, they spend $260 million, that's really $270 because that gets them over the cap, just double it because you're paying 95%. Yes, exactly. So it's not a salary cap, but at that point... It's not a salary cap. You're just paying that extra money. And it really turns into, do you believe in your team?

Do you believe this payroll is going to get the job done? Because if you do believe in it, then that doesn't matter. I mean, you go out there and you make the playoffs, you win the World Series, you're going to be getting so much extra money. It's going to cover all this anyway. So it really becomes for front offices, a risk will work. award thing. I have my team. Are we good enough to make the playoffs? And if the answer is yes, then none of this shit should matter. Because you get into that playoff money, you are going to

recoup most of, if not all this money, just in one year. So it just becomes, like I said, for these front offices, do I believe my squad or not? And it turns out a lot of teams, you know, the Red Sox apparently, don't really believe in their squad. They don't think, maybe they don't think they can overtake the Yankees. Maybe they just don't think they have what it takes and they want to reset and kind of do this whole rebuilding thing. But I just, man, I don't buy it. And the more and more I look at the Muky Betts thing, the more and more I'm kind of upset with the socks were dealing in. Well, and I'll represent the owners because I'm sure that's exactly who they want representing them. And I phrased it like this beforehand and Trev gave me a little bit of a dirty

look and I like that. But a lot of the people that own these major league teams, there's only 30 groups, families, whatever you want to call them, that own a major league baseball team. And a lot of these people are really good business people because that's how you get to buy a major league baseball team. And they're looking at it. And I think the word I used was excess money or throwing away money. or I'm not sure, bonus money, because if I stay under that one number, like Jimmy said,

when you say double it, that doesn't click in a lot of businessmen's head, especially when you mentioned going to the playoffs. And this year, it was what? It was supposed to be Houston versus Dodgers, man. Guess what? Neither of those teams won the World Series. Those teams still collected a little playoff money. But I think when they're looking at it as a business plan or a business model, they're saying, why should I have to pay that at all? Why can't we just be under that number like all the other teams are for the most part? Well, you know, they negotiated this as well. So a lot of people say, oh, you know what, players, you negotiated this agreement, deal with it.

Well, owners, you negotiated this system, deal with it. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're going to tell me that the Yankees or the Red Sox, do you think their franchise value is going to go up $50 million this year? I bet you it is. Yes. I bet you it is. When you own a team that's worth whatever it is,

$2, $3 billion, what are teams worth nowadays? Yankees are worth a ton. Yanks are up there, yeah. They're probably going to grow by $50 million their value. So just in that instance, you're going to recoup your money, let alone if you make the playoffs and you win the World Series, I mean, you're going to make that money back. And, and, I'm just,

throw this out there because it's it's i think this is interesting you know i i knew about this but as i you know dive deeper into it i started to realize where this money's going you know where's the 45 million dollars that a team is going to pay on that text where does it go and i have the answer which is great oh does it does i thought it spread out to all the teams well it's not i'm going to tell you right now. Where's it go? Some of it is. So the first $13 million collected each year, they go to funding obligations to the MLBPA and the benefit plans that we have. Nice for us. $13 million. That's great. But there's obviously most of the time more money than that. So 50% of the remaining money, and I'm reading this now, so I don't fuck it up. 50% of the remaining money,

they go to the retirement fund for players, which is also very nice to us. So you're treating your employees to, you know, some benefits, which is always a good thing. If you're an owner of a business, you want to treat your employees. That is an awesome spin, ploof. We can just start right the headline like MLB owners don't care about their employees' retirement. So. Yeah, they won't pay for a world championship, nor Mookie's retirement. Yeah. Unbelievable.

Then, well, let me finish because then, you know, the first two, you know, sound like, hey, that's pretty good for the players. Well, the last 50%, remaining 50% is split equally with all the teams who are under the tax threshold. So basically, a lot of these teams are saying we already have shared revenue, like the teams that are trying to get under this tax, we already have shared revenue. if we're going to go out there and spend money on free agents and try to win and this other team's not, they're getting the shared revenue and they're going to get some of my tax money for free, that's why they don't like it. I think a lot of the times that's where they're like, this is kind of ridiculous. But again, players get this all the time, so I'm going to shoot it right back to the owners.

You negotiated this. So for you to negotiate it and then not want to do it, all that tells me is that you're using it. You want to use it as a cap or soft cap. and you want to use it and you're negotiating with free agents. I had it happen to me in 2017. I had the team talking to me saying, we're not going over this tax threshold. We have X amount of money to spend.

We're going to give it all to you. We're not going to make any in-season moves because we're staying under the tax. So essentially they were telling me this is all the money we have. This is the cap. This is all we're going to spend. And again, we'll just keep saying this. There's no salary cap in baseball.

I think it's really important The part you said there where You know both sides are using this as the excuse or the reason Like the players are like the damn The damn luxury tax and the revenue sharing is screwing this up And the owner's saying we'd love to spend more But these taxes are high we can't It's like you proposed this

So I don't think you want to spend more It goes both ways 100%. and yeah you know it's just it's tough to hear i i hate talking about it because the dollar amounts are so crazy and you know it's just it's tough for people to want to listen to that want to listen to billionaire owners or millionaire players talk about money and i know i i hate talking about it right now i don't know i think i think that's what gets tricky about all this because again You know, we gave Kime Bloom some compliments on the trade yesterday, but that was because ownership forced him to trade Mookie Betts.

Kine Bloom would have loved to keep Mookie Betts on his baseball team he's running. So I don't know what the thing is there. Do owners need to be more in the forefront? Do, like, profits numbers need to be more in the forefront? And circling back, going back to me being owner, Jake and saying, screw you guys. is if I'm hiring a general manager to run my team, and I'm pointing around, and Trevor,

I asked you before this, I don't know if you have it in front of you, but how many teams have gone into that 95th per centile or whatever it is? Because the two teams I know the best, the Yankees and the Red Sox, two of the most profitable teams in the sports, have both made hell-bent efforts to get under the number to reset. And I think most teams have.

But if I was hiring a GM, and again, going back to me being the owner, I want my GM telling me that I can win, they can win me a World Series without going into that number. Because the other teams aren't. I think it just depends where you're at, you know, with your players. I mean, you don't, the teams that are under the tax threshold and are winning World Series, they're drafting players, they're developing players, and you have a lot of team, team-friendly contracts, you know, a lot of young guys who aren't making a lot of money.

And when you do that, you know, then they're saying, oh, we have the payroll flexibility to go out and get guys. But I think the point that I want to make is everybody has payroll flexibility, especially these big teams. It's a narrative that they have pushed and shove down everyone's throat that we have to get on this tax or else we're not going to be competitive in the future. That's not true. It's just not true.

It's just they're looking to maximize profits because it is a business. But if you really wanted to go out and spend money, you know, I'd say at least 10 teams could just go out and spend what they need to spend and go out and try to get these free agents. But because we are a fair pot, I will say, a lot of times it doesn't make business sense for these guys. And that's the decision that they have to make. It's do I think we can make the playoffs? Do I think we can win a World Series? And I understand when some teams say no and we've got a dump payroll.

I totally get it. If the Detroit Tigers went out and signed a bunch of free agents this year, I'd be like, what are you guys doing? Like, that's not going to get you there. But when teams like the Red Sox, who just won the World Series in 2018, they're dumping the second best player in baseball because they need to get under this tax threshold, I don't love it.

I don't love it. I just don't really see it. And I try to see it from both sides, but to me it just doesn't make sense. And as a fan, as a fan, most of these ballparks taxpayer-funded. Right? You're paying an arm in a leg for concessions.

You're paying an arm in the leg for parking. And once your team decides to sell and to get under this threshold and get their payroll way down, your parking fees are not going down. Your ticket prices are not going down. Your concessions are not going down. They're still making the money that they're going to make no matter what. And now they're just shaving payroll. The product on the field is going to suffer because of it.

And that's just no good for fans. Last episode we talked about this little Jake and I and I said, I'm not smart enough, but I was very like kind of just sad for baseball. That Mookie and Linder are going to be traded. or leave and not stay with the team they're with. We had some comments on YouTube or Twitter. Forget where I read it that said maybe something like this might work. And I wanted to ask your question about this would be a homegrown exemption or a franchise tag or whatever.

So like maybe, hey, if this guy came up through your system, right, and you are willing to give him X amount of years to keep him on your team. Like the years and the money has to be somewhat fair, that there's some threshold there. He won't count against your luxury tax. So you take these once-in-a-generation homegrown talents like Lindor like Muki, like Trout, and say, as long as you pay him what he's due to keep him on your team and what he's worth, that won't count or maybe only 50% of his portion goes against the luxury tax. And that way when you have these homegrown talents that we want to keep with their original team,

and with the fan base that adores them, would that be somewhat of a solution? I didn't come up with it. People suggested it. That's a, I mean, it's a tough one. I mean, it kind of makes sense to me what you're talking about. And I think teams, when you have a homegrown talent like that, like, yes, there should be some incentive to keep them.

There already is incentive to keep him because you have fans that are buying his jersey. You have fans that are coming out specifically to see these guys play. But if there was an added benefit for them to keep these players, I think that's great. I don't know exactly how it would work out, and that's definitely over our heads as far as, like, understanding contracts and exactly what they're doing. They find some loophole. It's all right. I apologize for this part of the pod.

It's good. It's good. You're good. Take care of that, bad boy. I mean, I love that because I want to keep these guys in. Like, you know, it was amazing when Joe Maurer re-signed in Minnesota. Like, I just, everyone in the city, even if you thought it wasn't a great contract at the end of it. it like thinking about Joe Maurer playing somewhere else doesn't make sense thinking about

mooky bets and the dodgers doesn't make sense to me lindor same thing you know i'm happy that trout's still in anaheim you know and i think a lot of people are like oh well they're saddled with these contracts late in these guys's careers well then restructure the the the contracts pay them a ton up front you know you can do it there's ways to there's ways to do it but don't tell me you can't afford to keep these guys you may not want to afford to keep these guys but don't tell me you can't afford to keep these guys because that is

that's the ultimate cop-out to me and it's bullshit that's your choice you know as a front office as an ownership group or owner to say we don't want to do it let's reset that's your choice that's not that you can afford it you can and I think that's kind of like my point

in all this is this is not a cap this is the CBT and this is exactly kind of how it came about and this is how it's being manipulated now. And I don't know how good of a job we've done talking about it, but I just feel like people kind of need to know a little bit about it. Yeah. And we do have, we brought in a special guest to talk about a little further.

Should we throw it to that? Let's throw it right to it. Here he is. All right. Now to further our discussion with the CBA and everything that follows along with it, I thought we'd bring in a player rep, a guy that has been in a league a long time, a guy that I respect his opinion.

Him and I have had many in-depth conversations over a multitude of topics, ranging from politics to the state of the game, always a good conversationalist. This is Kyle Gibson, new Texas Rangers starting pitcher. Kyle, what's up, baby? Thanks for coming on talking baseball.

Trev, I'm doing good, man. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. We're doing great. So we're kind of gotten already into this whole CBA. We're calling this episode, the CBA for dummies. And really, you know, it's kind of been in the news lately with the Chris Bryant case

and now kind of how Mookie got shipped out of Boston. And we're just kind of talking about the ramifications of the CBA that has ran from 2017 and will run through 2021. And I've kind of talked to some players and I've talked to you a little bit about it. But I wanted to get your thoughts on what are going to be some of the issues in 2021 that we're going to have to bargain with. MLB on. What are some of the things that players are talking about and some issues, some hurdles that they see going forward? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the last couple years has been

talking about free agency and how it's been manipulated and how it's been slow and how they're trying to set values. And obviously this past year, you know, this offseason has been a little different. You know, maybe it's just a free agent crop. Maybe it's where a couple of teams are in their so-called window that they talk about. But I mean, I think for us, as players. We're just trying to make sure that the games as competitive as possible all the time. And as a player, you want the team that you're on to be trying to compete for a title every single year. And too many times with the last couple years, we've seen too many teams who say, ooh, I'm going to rebuild. Oh, we don't have a window to win. Oh, the team ahead of us is too good.

Well, there's players out there that could impact your team right now and they weren't going to sign them. And they were blaming it on. You know, we just don't know if our young guys are ready. we'll go get guys who are ready. There's guys who are available that are ready right now. So we'll see how, you know, the next year of free agency goes going into the CBA. But hopefully these past couple years will kind of tame that down a little bit. But we're always just trying to push forward on trying to make them more competitive. So whether that's adjusting the CBT, which I'm sure we'll get into or, you know,

service time getting the young guys best players up. Hopefully there's things we can do to make it better. Yeah, that's one of the things that I think a lot of people are talking. about right now is that service time manipulation, we'll call it. And that's technically what it is. I mean, it's within the rules of this collective bargaining agreement. You know, teams are allowed to hold guys down if they have a reason, you know, whether it's a legitimate reason or not, like we saw with Chris Bryant, they literally held them down to the exact day to have an extra year of control. I think that's definitely something that's on, it's been on the forefront of my mind and a lot of, you know, just baseball fans in general. Is there a way to combat that? You know, he lost his grievance, so I know now there's really nothing we can do. Is that something that's going to be, you know, a make-or-break thing for players in 2021?

Are we saying, hey, like, we need to figure this out. We can't have this manipulation, especially when you're valuing younger players the way you are. Well, I mean, you can probably close some of the loops, but at the end of the day, you can only close some. I mean, probably, you know, like we've talked about the tax. code or other stuff that you talk about, there's only so many loops you can close until you're doing all you can do. They're allowed to keep players in the minor leagues to get them better for the big leagues. They're allowed to, you know, do things to develop their players.

And if they have a reason to believe that they, this player needs more development, they're going to leave them down. So in I think Bryant's case, they wanted him to field the ball better or something. So instead of the AAA to take some extra grounders or something like that. That one extra day. That one extra day was huge for him. You never know. You never know. But, I mean, you see it all the time, you know, whether it's in Minnesota or wherever you are, there's always guys that don't get a September call up or show up to the big leagues

a month late when the team, you know, isn't expected to win. So they use that extra month to, you know, keep a guy from being a super two and you do that. Did you guys expect Bryant's to win? Like, was this were you or were players watching this closely? because the Yankees did something very similar with Glaber Torres, and I'm sure there's examples across the league. So is it like, you know, if Bryant wins that, there's a lot of domino effect.

Were players watching it closely? I guess I was watching it a little bit because you see how it affects its trade value. And with the Rangers, I think we were one of the teams that could have been linked to Chris Bryant in trading for him. So you see when it goes from 2 to 1, his value probably goes. goes down a little bit on the trade market and we probably had a better chance of trading for him. You know, then when it goes back to two years, you know, his trade value goes skyrocketing again because you have two years control. So other than that, I mean, I don't know if I expected them to win. I think there's probably going to be enough evidence of the Cubs doing it for a specific reason.

And I don't even know how much precedence there is to actually help the players in this instance in this specific case. So that's kind of what a lot of this arbitration hinges on, whether it's arbitration salary, arbitration service time, you know, the precedent set before you and those decisions made before you. What do you got, Jake? Yeah, I was going to jump back to the free agency a little bit because the player manipulation, I think we can all get our heads around that pretty good. And it's just a really weird concept, especially when you see someone like Pete Alonzo,

who the Mets called them up last year. and a lot of people were like LOL Mets, but I mean, Pete being on that team from opening day helped them do more and be better. He had an incredible year, and so you start doing that. I kind of want to jump back to Free Agency where you started a little bit with,

would you say, and, you know, I know these negotiations will end up being, you know, budding heads and things like that, and you don't want to give up ground. But this last free agency that happened, you kind of said this, but if we see this last year kind of happen again,

Is free agency less of an issue almost? Because like you're saying, I mean, this year seemed pretty good to be a free agent. We improved from last year. Last year was scary. Yeah, it improved, I should say. And it's always really good for the guys at the top, right? Like the very best players are always going to have a team to play on. They're always going to get the nine-figure deals,

and they're always going to have people bidding for them. I think cases like mine or Jordan Lyles or something like the middle guys, is what everybody wants to look at because, you know, it was guys like me or guys who had a qualifying offer or guys who were right on, I wouldn't say a fringe of Major League, but, you know, good players, but the team didn't want to pay them, you know, $6 million a year and they weren't getting a job. So I think, you know, contracts and player statuses like mine will be one that we'll try to focus on because you want those guys to be getting the two and three year deals because, you know, a lot of those guys have earned it. You know, Jordan Lyles getting that two-year

your deal is good. And so that'll be the ones I think they focus on. And, you know, hopefully we have another year after this year to where, yeah, you can look back and say, okay, we think that 22 to 24 of the teams are, you know, trying to win. They're in the market for good players and they're in the market for free agents. But I think also part of it is we have an influx of young players that are in very controllable states right now for the team. So as I look forward to the CBA, I think some of it is trying to figure out, you know, how can you get some of these young players to the point where they either reach arbitration a little bit earlier or their free agents a little bit earlier because, you know, not that you always want to be in the players' favor because, yeah, I do.

But we understand it's a business and the teams get control and they need to have control over players too. But I think that's part of the reason why some of the fringe free agents haven't quite gotten those job is because you've got a team like, the Dodgers who can just trade for the money they traded for and they're still under the CBT because you look at all of those players that have controllable right now at either minimum or first year of arbitration and they're putting together one of the best teams in the MLB with those type of guys so and the Astros did it for a while with what their draft picks when they hit on all those guys as well yeah I love that you brought that up because we you know I think that's kind of a thing that players you know are talking about now because teams are valuing guys differently you know they are not

they don't want guys past the age of 30 essentially really I mean if you really look at the elite guys are still going to get their deals but you know if they can what they're basically saying is why will we pay a guy that's 30 31 who's going to be say he's worth a you know 2F war and but we can get two guys from our system who we can platoon and you know maybe we won't get two but we'll get you know one and a half f4 or something like that all the players want is for, if you're going to start valuing guys, you know, valuing these younger players,

and they're giving you this value, then they need to be compensated more. Because, you know, the whole system is built upon, you know, your three years, you're making the league minimum, then you have arbitration. Then after that sixth year, that's kind of your time. Hey, you're a free agent. You can decide where you want to play. You're probably going to make the most amount of money at that point. It's very hard to get there.

And now all of a sudden, teams are like, hey, we don't even need those guys that or six plus, you know, unless they're elite players, then, well, if that's going to be the case and you're still going to be making your money, your concessions are going to continue to rise, ticket prices are going to continue to rise, the value of your franchise is going to continue to rise, you're still having your shared revenue. Well, then some of that needs to go to the one through three guys, whether that's an increase in minimum salary or like Kyle was just saying, you know, let's get guys to arbitration sooner. Let's get guys to free agency sooner so they can get fairly compensated. And I hate

talking specific dollar amounts because you lose the fans very quickly when you do that. People don't want to hear about guys that are making millions of dollars to play baseball. Talk about not making enough millions. You know, it's really hard. They should just change it to percentage. I mean, just it's yeah, that's kind of what we were trying to do here. And like you said, we're not especially on this pod, we're a very fair pod here, okay? We like to think about things both of us. The fairest pod in the land.

Yeah, fair pod, yeah. Fair pod, yeah. I understand that unless you're an Astros fan, then we're not a fair pod. No, no. But I want people to understand that there are times that I think that we agree, like, yeah, it's a business.

We understand that as players, we understand that it's a business. So there are times where you're going to make a business decision and it's probably going to be not so great for players. But at the same time, we have to think about the fans and making sure you're putting out a great product on the field or at least a competitive product on the field. And if you're going to be valuing players differently, let's compensate them fairly enough.

And I think that's kind of like the main point here. And I'm glad you touched on that because it's definitely a change in the game. It's happened over the last, you know, maybe I'm going to say five, six years this has really happened. And, you know, the game needs to evolve financially then as well. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's part of incorporating war into arbitration. arbitration or incorporating a sliding pay scale. I have no idea, but I know the year I went to arbitration, my F war was like a one and a half, and my B war was a negative point nine.

So how am I supposed to be valued when I'm a negative player according to one site and an $8 million player to another site? I think that's part of the problem. I've never even seen a discrepancy like that. That's insane. So I don't even know what to do. And then the other thing I don't like is, you know, these teams use all of these Zips projections, no idea how they come up with it.

But have you ever seen a player projected to do better than he did last year? I don't know that I ever have, especially if you're a fringe player. And maybe if you're Chris Sale or if you're one of the top guys, okay, they'll project you what you did last year. But if you're not, I'm going to get projected at a 4, 5, or 46 ERA, and that's just how it's going to be. And then when I beat my Zips, you know, and nobody's going to say anything. But if you project a 3-3 for me, then you're like, well, he only had a 3-7, you project it bad. So I just don't know if there's any good way of doing it. but it just seems like teams, especially like you said, when you hit the 30-year mark,

they're always waiting for the regression. So if the Zips is always saying you're going to regress, then maybe it's okay. I don't really understand it all. I hate that word. I want to talk. Word comes up a lot. Yeah, the arbitration and the age 30, you're kind of a prime example of like, thank God you broke in when you did at 25, 26, because Jake and I always talk about the system set up.

If you break in at 26, 27, you're likely never going to get that big payday because you have the six years. Luke Voight on the Yankees broke in at like 27, I believe. So he could be a stud for six years. But by the time he gets the free agency, he's going to be 33, 34, no one's going to give him the big money. All they're going to talk about is, yeah, he's too old. There's no way he's going to hit projections or he's going to continue to improve. He's too old. That's all they're going to say.

It's very unfortunate that that's kind of. how it's gone. Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing for a pitcher right now is everybody looks for when your velocity is going to drop. So I just looked at my, you know, the packet that my agent and some of the people he works with put together. And one of the, not the first page, but one of the pages is that I was like the sixth or seventh hardest throwing starter pitching available. Like, when did that come up that I'm a sixth hardest throwing starting pitcher available? I mean, that just wasn't a thing. It's like you look at, you look at a strikeouts, you look at other stuff, but people care about, hey, his velocity is maintaining or his velocity is not maintaining.

You want to know why? It's a way to say it's regressing. It's, yeah, it's the projections. That's the game. We just talked about that last pod, and I think we're going a little bit off the rails here. But we talked about spring training battles, and I was just saying how I think all spring training battles are BS. Because you're already projected. They have their projections, and they're not going to allow a small sample size like spring training to affect that projection.

Yep. So interesting stuff, man. I really appreciate you coming on, sharing your thoughts, man. I have one question, not about anything that we're talking about before we let them go. Yes, this is one of my hope for us right here. Let's go. Let's get into this. One of your new teammates is Lance Lynn and you were teammates before, right?

Lance Lynn was going to creep on her real quick. Hey, hello. Hi. What up? All right, hold on. Let me finish up. He's already asked me a question. Yeah, it's a very important question.

Hold on. Lance Lynn wears sweatshirts on his non-pitching days so he can sweat as much as possible. So he feels cold on the mound. Do you partake in that? Will you partake that in the Texas heat? That's a great question. I did not know he did that, actually. Is it?

I know one thing we did, one thing we did in Minnesota, was we had an infrared sauna that Trevor knows about infrared sauna to get a cell. All right. You're going to bring that to Texas with all that new money or what, man? No, we might have to get one, but I think there's a few guys there that are making a little bit more than me. So maybe I'll chip in a little bit.

You know me with the alligator arms, you know, just slide a little in there. Just a little bit. I'm going to make some phone calls, make sure they know that your alligator. arms are growing a little bit. Oh, gosh. Yeah. But, oh, man, Lance is a beauty. You need to get him on here.

Oh, my gosh. That guy, if you just want to have a laugh, which I'm sure you guys have, just go YouTube, Lance Lynn, postgame interviews. And you guys enjoyed him very much. Yeah, when he was a brief stint as a Yankee, was awesome. Yeah, he's great, man. All right. Well, thanks, man.

And we'll have some fun with you whenever you want. Sorry, we had to talk the serious stuff, but Trevor's trying to all this. stuff. Trevor's trying this like investigative reporter stuff. It's uh, yeah, I love it. I love it. No, he, uh, he, he pitched me the idea on some, some stuff for the spring and for the season two. It's cool. So it's, it's going to be fun. I hope you guys find, there's a couple videos out there where I, uh, where I do some pretty ridiculously unathletic stuff on the mound. So if you guys happen to stumble on those, let me know. I got it. And I'm searching. Yeah. All right. Thanks, man. All right. Thanks, man. All right, guys. I appreciate it.

That was Gibson. Thanks for coming on and chatting with us. We have one more topic that Plouf has in order, and it is. Doomsday prep. Doomsday scenario. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel, or is there going to be no baseball in 2022? I think people really need to think about that because this agreement, like we mentioned earlier, last through the 2021 season. So we're a couple of years away from it.

We decided to do it because it's pertinent to a few of the situations that are happening around baseball. it's in today's game. There is that clock. There's that clock that's like clock to destruction of human civilization. Have you guys seen that? And basically we... When everyone's going to die? Is that you're saying?

You really do like the heavy stuff. I know, I do. I've come across it on the internet a few times where it's like there's this group that has this clock and we've been stuck at like 11, a close. on the doomsday clock and I think we just moved to like 1120 so that's kind of a big jump in a couple years here I I think we are at 11 o'clock doomsday clock for baseball and that's very close and obviously we haven't had a work stoppage since 1994 but there are some things they're just fundamentally wrong or different in today's games that needs to be addressed.

And it's going to be interesting to see if, and this is really going to fall on the owners, if they want to be able to make an adjustment, if they're willing to make an adjustment. Because right now they kind of, they kind of got everything they want. And, you know, the players, again, I hate talking, you know, dollars with fans and stuff like that. but the players really don't have anything to, like their hammer is a work stoppage. Like that's what we got. You know, and we are very, you know, unified.

And if it comes down to it, you know, that's our play. You know, if that becomes our play, it will happen. But I just, I'm leaving that hour open because I believe that both sides just have a lot to offer, they have a lot to gain from not having a work stoppage. Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, it's also like baseball just had one of the most active off seasons we've had in a while. The crop of young talent, we talked about this last episode,

this crop of young talent is really good, and they kind of didn't market the last crop as good as they could. So they have a chance now to like really grow the game and just change the narrative. I think they've put it in motion. And they've allowed us to exist. five years ago, they wouldn't have allowed us to exist. So I think there's like a lot of, there's a good momentum, but it might not matter when it comes down to the business talk, you know?

But I think we're at a terrible spot to stop the game. I totally agree. I totally, totally agree. And like I said, you know, we just talked about Gibby. We talked about how teams are valuing players differently now. And then basically they're changing. the age of a player's prime. And it used to be your prime was 26 to 30.

And now they're really the way they're value in players, it's 22 to 26. So essentially they're getting all the value, their perceived value, at a fraction of what a player is worth. Ploof's frozen on my end. I hope his lawn guy didn't kill him. There he is. I'm back. Fucking A. I think I was on a roll

You were rolling Freak You were fucking Taking dabs out of a bag of Coachella And then we just stopped you I'll lead us back in And I'll say Yes, we just had a brief technical difficulty

And maybe it's because you've talked Baseball Strike with a couple of dudes Who are making a living out of covering baseball, Trevor. I'm part of the company too, baby, I know. Just take our souls in front of us. No, and I think that the story that our regular listeners have heard a lot is that our first winter meetings we went and doom is gloom, the strike is happening. Like, that was the conversation. And it's why I asked Gibby that question about free agency because everyone was pinning those two things.

And there was some weird shit that happened. Like the Todd Fraser story where he didn't get an offer, or I forget if it was Todd or someone else, but he didn't get an offer all offseason. And then on the same day, two or three teams offered him the same contract. That's bullshit. That doesn't just happen. I like believing in the world and silly stuff lines up sometimes. And wow, that's weird.

That's not. That's BS. And so that's why I asked Gibby if this free agency was good. And I know I should have phrased it a little differently, but he definitely said it was better. but all the strike talk has been gone and like it was it was literally every conversation we had at the what was it 27 2018 2019 winter meetings and then this year it was missing it was gone it wasn't talked about and you're right i mean we are it's not like the problems are really solved no no they're not they're not solved i think that's where i set up to pay

guys minimally while they're providing you know the most value or team what teams perceive as the most value now so if they're willing you know the way they should be paid essentially I think I should have worded that better but then I think there's there's light at the end of the tunnel but they don't have to do that that they have team control for six years and then after that six years it's like we can just toss them and you never fully get benefit it needs to cost them and they're getting this for pennies on the dollar. And again, I hate saying this to people because it's still a lot of money, but, you know, what you're worth and what you should be getting compensated, they should be,

you know, equal. And right now, the young guys aren't getting that. So can we pay them more at the beginning of their major league careers? Yes. Can we move arbitration up a year and free agency up a year? Yes. Will the owners do it? I don't know. I think that's kind of going to be what is talked about most. That and the fact that they can manipulate service time pretty easily with this agreement as we saw the Chris Bryant situation, you know, it makes a big difference. So if they're willing to come to the table and say, hey, we'll restructure kind of the way that things are going, what do you guys have in return? What are you guys going to give us in return? You know, I think that's going to be the conversation. And I don't know what that's going to be. What would an owner's,

what the owners want for the players in return? More international games? Do they want a different format for the All-Star game? Or do they want, I don't know what it is. Don't get hung up on any of that stuff. That's the players. They're going to want something. They're going to want something.

I don't know what it is they're going to want. The players should focus on fixing the arbitration length, the team-controlled years, cutting that down. and restructuring the luxury tax. And that should be like one and two, in my opinion. And I'm on the outside. So like someone like Gibson can be like, dude, you're wrong. There's other things.

But the service time. Those are the three things like don't think about anything else, right? Well, we the players are going to want to talk about those things. Are the owners going to be willing to talk about them? And if they are willing to talk about them. They're going to dangle some flashy shit in front of you. well if they're willing to talk about them what i'm saying is what are they going to want from players like there's a give and take there and i just don't know if the players association has

enough to give them for them to make sweeping changes unless they can convince them that it's obviously it is good for the game but uh jerry rinsdorf the guy the owner of the white socks he's still in the white socks i'm pretty sure he does he's been quoted as saying the only mistake the owners made after the strike in 94 was that they weren't prepared to sit out for two years. So that's where their heads at. Okay. And if there comes to, you know, if it comes, push comes a shove and the owner's like, hey, you guys don't have enough to give us to get these changes that you want made,

then that's when the doomsday scenario comes into play. And there is that. It's ruined my whole day. There's a hammer. The players have a hammer, and that's a holdout. We're in the middle. Tell us more about your hammer, Trevor. We're at the end of spring training, end of a long offseason,

and it was an active off season. I'm pining for baseball, and you're like, well, you know, they're ready to go on strike for two years, which would be four off seasons smashed together. I'd kill myself. So take that into account when you guys go into the CBA. Text all your friends. Jimmy will kill himself.

Jimmy, there'll be no more John Boy. Live on Twitter, live on YouTube. We might still be able to do it, Jake. You and I, we'll be all right. Yeah, we get some content out there at least. But yeah, so there is, there's light at the end of the tunnel. I gave you the doomsday scenario. Let me give you the light at the end of the tunnel.

The light of the end of the tunnel is that baseball, you know, regardless of what mainstream media wants to tell you, baseball's thriving, okay? Interest in baseball's up. As long as they understand, different channels to get eyes on the game, like a talking baseball podcast. You know, the game's going to continue to grow. Okay, we have the biggest population increase in the States is a Latin American population.

And guess what? They love baseball. We're going to get a, we have a ton of young talent in the game. We have moms and dads who don't want their kids playing football anymore. We're going to get athletes from that sport. Hey-oh. This game is going to continue to be America's pastime. and it's going to continue to grow internationally,

and it's in a really good spot. So if the owners say, we realize that and we don't need to go and lock out the players, and the players are like, hey, let's come and make some agreements with the owners, because we don't want to have to hold out. We don't want to, the players don't want to do that.

Nobody wants that to happen. You know, are both sides prepared for it to happen? Sure, but they don't need it to happen. And all these good things are happening in baseball. I believe that it'll get done. But there is a scenario that it won't get done, and we need to prepare for that as well. But I know you guys like to be, you know,

sunshine and rainbows here sometimes. I'm just going to say, I just laid out the doomsday scenario. I think it'll get done. I think we'll have baseball. It's going too well for both sides. As long as there's some concessions made and we figure those things out, we'll be all good.

Okay. Trevor. We are friends at this point. Wow. I like that. If Jimmy and I, there's a strike, and we turn into scabs and we play,

is our friendship done? Or are we so untalented that you're fine with it? If me and Jimmy are scabbed and we play so terribly, that they bring the players back. We're kind of double agents. I was just going to say that. If they put you guys on the field,

they'll be clamoring for actual players to get back out there. That's good. They're mine. Whatever we can get to help. Yeah. What I think needs to happen is there needs to be a sacrificial lamb in all this. And I have the perfect. No, I like noodle.

I'm kind of back on noodle. But let's just throw the empires under the bus. Both sides can agree on that. There we go. Just get the umpires out of there. Sacrifice them keep baseball going. I think that that'll be a winning combination. Maybe that's the concession. We just go, no umpires. We straight cut that from the budget and we just use robots. That's problem solved. I like it, man. I like it. You know, it's, it's the stuff we just talked about is very heavy. And, you know, I don't know how good of a job we did, but it's, people have, you know, it is a business.

You know, it's a business and players know that. Fans need to know that. That doesn't mean, though, that all decisions should be based firmly in just numbers. Like, that's not why you buy a baseball team. Don't buy a baseball team if that's what you want. Just continue to run your hedge fund. If you buy a baseball team, like, you have to have some feel. Understand that what you do has an effect on your city.

And our nation. Really, that's our national pass time. Is it good for our national pass time to go on strike? No, it's not. So when you buy a team, you have an obligation to your fans. So let's keep that in mind. Imagine the months when only baseball is the sport, like a strike when, like, what do so many programs talk about?

You know what they did in 94? What? Little League baseball became the forefront of that summer. And my Little League, which I was way too young to be on that team, Northridge Little League, the earthquake kids became national sensations because there was no other baseball to watch. The earthquake kids? The earthquake kids, yeah. That's awesome. You just sent Jim down a cycle, so we'll see tomorrow.

I have, dude, that could be another episode. The earthquake kids episode would be phenomenal. I mean, it's already happening. I don't know if you know how things work here yet, but it's happening. Is it Google about it? Oh, yeah. I don't know if I want to say there's a lot of articles about the earth. I don't know if I want to send you on this or if I want to send our listeners on it or if I'm going to pretend to read it so that my listeners can look in and tell me.

But football actually went through kind of a similar thing a few years back with their top draft picks. If you remember Sam Bradford was the last number one pick that got paid paid and all these guys were saying what the hell? This dude hasn't played a down of NFL football. So I wonder if there's almost something in reverse there that the NFL CBA and MLB CBA can look at to kind of balance things out a little bit because, and maybe make it seem to the owners like you're not spending more money or, I won't say wasting money or spending it. You're spending it differently. I don't stop using that word. Yeah. So you're spending the money differently on the young guys and the older guys.

I didn't really follow what you just said right there at all But I will say I will say that I've had conversations with NFL guys And you know the MLVPA has always been the gold standard for sports unions You know it's it's the fact that we we don't break you know If like we're all if we're in on something we're all in on it And that's been why it's been a strong union for all these years And I think it's going to continue to be that and again

I said I talked to end NFL guys. I've talked to NBA guys about their unions, and they're always surprised at the things that we're able to get done. So this is a union that is strong, and I think we'll be able to overcome kind of the situation that we put ourselves in. People will say that, and it is true. We sign this agreement. We put ourselves in this agreement. I think we'll be able to overcome it and find a way where all sides, fans, ownership, and players are happy. were you on the earthquake kids team ploof no i was too young i was like eight years old or something like that oh okay matt castle so there that's a matt castle was my brother should have been on it

league politics held them out of it we could just go all in depth on this they also have like a tom amanski esk instructional tape that so went on j leno they were the real deal yeah i thought you were on this team I was all excited. It happened. We had the Northridge earthquake, January 7th of 1994, I believe, or 17th, one of those two. And, yeah, it became like a national story because there was no baseball. And you had this team that overcame a tragedy. Cool.

That's for next time. Yeah, we're running super long. So it was a good conversation. If you enjoyed it, let us know. If you got more informed, let us know. If you're more informed than us and you have opinions, let us know. And if you know what Jake was talking about with the NFL stuff at the end, let us know. No idea.

And I swear I was listening to you. Get your knowledge up, bro. That's all I'll say. Sorry it was over your guy's heads. Play the intro music. Let's go. I'm trying. I don't know.

Nothing's nothing. No. I can't. music. It's playing? You can hear it? I heard some intro a second ago. Yeah.

Can I dab? Is that like you? Oh, yeah. I can't wait to have everyone in the office. Not you, Ploof, but a producer. Wow. I guess you're not everyone. That works out.

Well, he's not going to be in the office. Is it playing now? West Coast. I play now. All right. Goodbye, everyone. Thank you for listening. We appreciate it.

We'll see you next time. Jake Sachs. He sucks so bad. Art. Oh, man. Okay. Thanks, patrons, for hanging out with us. Thank you guys.

And we'll see you Monday morning-ish. Nice glasses, you dork. God.