Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Cardinals Sign Sonny Gray, Tigers Optimism, and Ohtani Rumors | 752

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Use code TALKIN for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TALKINVisit http://get.bluemoonbeer.com/BASEBALL to see delivery options.+++++Timestamps:0:00 Trevor was Sick2:00 Jolly Olive and BBD Going to Winter Meetings in Nashville!3:30 Cardinals Sign Sonny Gray to 3-year $75M Contract18:45 Kenta Maeda Signs 2-year Deal with Detroit Tigers28:45 Twins Have Lost Two Starters- What's Next?33:55 Mariners TRADE Eugenio Suarez to the Diamondbacks39:30 Matt Chapman's Market50:00 Shohei Ohtani Rumors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. The stove is still hot from Thanksgiving. How about sunny gray to the cards, my aided to the tigers? Hey, uh, henio to my snakes. Is it hot in the streets? Let's talk. Oh, hello and welcome to talking baseball, presenting you by Seek. My name is Jake Strombole.

Trevor Plouf out on the West Coast. B.BD. Behind the plate. Jom. Daddy? He's in Disney, baby. Him and the family enjoying it. He's out this week.

I'm out next week. Me and Trev got some big things coming up, especially as the hot stove kicks off. It's going to be a funky, funky couple weeks for talking baseball and an exciting couple weeks for the baseball community because it feels like it's going. It feels like it's going. So Trev, how you doing coming off of Thanksgiving and Thanksgiving weekend?

what's up everybody I'm doing well I don't know if you guys mentioned it but I was under the weather last week so I'm sorry I missed the show I hate missing shows but sometimes you got to do it I mean I had it bad for a while

but I'm feeling good now and I am excited to talk about some of these moves because I think they're important and I think that I think this is only the beginning I feel like there's a big avalanche of moves coming down

and Beaver and Jolly I guess are going to be at the way winter meetings, live covering the event, getting hammered off wine, just an homage to your guys' trip back in the day. So that'll be some good content. But we've got a good show today. I'm excited to talk about all the moves,

especially my guy Kyle Gibson, who you and I famously predicted was going to the Cardinals. He's there. So it's going to be a good one today. I'm trying to chop it up. It's been a while for me. Yeah, I don't, Bebs. Well, hey, there's a funny and a not funny part to this.

Trev was like really sick I didn't realize so we're glad you're feeling better obviously and then the other part of that is there's a chance you and I are going to be taking topless pictures soon and Trev was just sick and lost 10 pounds so that just hurts my

that hurts my equation 10 pounds like a week before the pictures but I was like pumped up like I was going to the gym a lot so I don't know man I wasn't trying to slim down. It wasn't a 10 pounds you needed to lose, but. Sheesh, man.

Let's talk ball. I'm glad you're feeling better. Yeah, go, if you're going to the winter meetings in Nashville, go hunt down Jolly Bebes. It's in Nashville? Yeah, I know. Nashville. Oh, man.

You guys are not so much fun. We screwed up. It's going to be a wild week for the boys. And it's been a wild week. I guess it hasn't been wild, but it feels like it's happening. Or maybe for one team. Trev and you're right because I I forgot the

kind of the last time we talked I think Gibby had happened or when did Gibby happen? We were we Trevor wasn't on the episode it was sick day that happened so he and Lance were the topic of to lead last

episode so we'll get your notes on that Trev because I'm interested and most importantly you have gotten the next part of the equation because there was a lot of hey, you know, depending where Gibby and Lance Lynn

signings are in your off-season moves for the Cardinals, they could be well-liked because they're veterans who eat innings and you kind of know what you're going to get from them. If they were the only moves, it didn't feel like the solution to the Cardinals needs, and now, Monday morning,

we get Sunny Gray to the St. Louis Cardinals. There'd been a lot of Braves rumors. Sunny Gray, I couldn't, I guess I could. can, but how good he was last year. He finished second in the Cy Young. You know, he led the American League in FIP, if you're into that kind of thing. And it comes out three years, 75 mill a year for Sunny Gray. He will be the Cardinals won. His 2022 season was also good. I mean, he's a career 347. It looks like he's the ace of

staff and Moziliac, Moziliac, the Cardinals GM. His original quotes were that they were getting three starting pitchers. And now we see Sonny Gray, Lanselin, and our guy guy, Kyle Gibson. So Trev, I think you start with Sonny, and I want to see you unpack the whole thing. I mean, what was the Cardinals problem last year? Starting pitching. Well, the clubhouse, too. And that.

We talked about that a lot. And what, you know, look, we'll get to what they bring on the field. but I think that's important to start with those three guys coming in. Big veteran presence. Kyle Gibson may be the greatest teammate of anyone that's ever played a sport. Nicest guy. And Sunny Gray is the same way. I mean,

I spent a lot of time around Sonny. He's not as nice as Kyle. It's nice in his own right. But, you know, Kyle's on a different level. But what Sunny brings is just real deal veteran leadership. And it's not just with the pitchers. And usually that's how it goes is you have like a leader that's the leader of the

pitchers. and then you have a position player, this leader position players. They have leader position players there. But Sonny, I saw it last year firsthand with the twins. I mean, he was the one organizing team dinners. He was the one getting the guys together and making sure that they were doing things as a team. And it's important throughout a season to do it. I mean, that's, we talk about that on this program a lot and it can't be understated.

Like that is important, especially to a team like the Cardinals that they kind of went through that. last year that just had a really, I would say, a rough year. You bring in a guy like Sonny, you bring in a guy like Gibby, both guys I played with and I know are just going to do things, great things for the clubhouse. Then you bring the on-field stuff. And, you know, I would say this, two, maybe three pitchers. I don't think the Cardinals are done. I think you would look at their rotation now.

You got Sunny at the head. And then you have Michaelis, Gibson, Lynn, and Matt's. that's who like the projected five are. I don't think they're done. There's still a couple guys out there they can go get. They would fortify the rotation. It would give them depth. If that's what they were searching for most in this off season,

they can still go get a Yamamoto. You got to try to convince these guys to go there, a Montgomery to come back. You got to convince him to go there. But like I wouldn't expect them to be done shopping. Are they going to land somebody else? I mean, it takes two to tango, so I do not know. But Sunny last year, he added a sweeper and he was filthy.

And he's like such a rare type of pitcher where he was striking a lot of guys out. He was getting a lot of ground balls. And he wasn't given up and then he wasn't give up any homers. That was the biggest thing. I don't think he allowed a homer until like July or August or something like that last year. So all the, you know, anytime he'd get runners on base, like he could just get out of it. It was not a Houdini axe because that wasn't the case.

But like it didn't matter. It felt like it didn't matter if runners got on like Sonny was going to get out of it. I think if you're a Cardinals fan, you can expect more of the same of what he did last year. He really likes that outside corner. When I saw Sonny on, he was commanding that outside corner. He was exing it with the sweeper, bringing that two-seam fastball back, and then riding the four-seam kind of up there. And when you can do that, and he did that a lot last year,

it's so difficult as a hitter to square a ball up, basically, because there's three pitches coming in the same quadrant. They all kind of look the same, and they all go different directions. He's going to do wonders. I think you're going to have some frustrating days with him. There are times where he's going to go five for you and he's going to get into a little bit of trouble. But more often than not, he's going to wiggle out of trouble

and you're going to see these end results and you're going to be happy as a Cardinals fan. Yeah, I don't know if it's called the Blake Snell bucket, but Sonny's not afraid to put a runner on. Sonny will walk yeah. He doesn't want to give in. And I think there's something there that's, I don't want to say it's a future of pitching because, hey,

I'm the biggest Blake Snell as a person fan. And I've also said, you know, sometimes he can be a tough watch. So I don't want to say this is the future of baseball. But I think there's guys that are talented enough that if you don't have control of the count, they're not afraid to let it go. And look at the stats. Like, go look at your favorite hitter. Go look at their stats when they have a 2-0 count

and go look at their stats when they have an 0-2 count. Like, there's something to that math that a couple guys are talented enough around baseball to navigate that. They're not scared to put on a base runner or two. Hey, and for Sunny Gray, more importantly, like, however you want to chop it up, the last couple years, whether you want to do the last couple years, whether you want to do the last five years or you want to do the last two years,

you're looking at a guy that has fantastic numbers. So the Cardinals get Sunny Gray and Trev, I liked where you were heading there because I kind of, I don't know. I guess I was starting to think in a central scope because it's like, okay, let's say the Cardinals are done with their rotation. It's Gray, Michaelis, Gibson, Lynn, Matt's. You know, it's not as sexy as you'd like, but depending where the central lands this off season are the Brewers selling off.

Like how impactful are the Cubs going to be? I know they want to make big moves, but they're currently missing Belli and Stroman, who were significant parts of their teams last year. Like, what are the Reds going to do this offseason to upgrade their team? I know the Cardinals last year, the season got ugly and it fell apart quick, but baseball also has a beautiful way of bouncing back that I don't know if we did TPPs tomorrow, The Cardinals would be in conversation to be the best team in the central. That starting pitching-wise, I guess Mo said three.

So in my head, I had kind of been like, all right, I guess this is their three. Because they have some young guys, too. Liberator, liberator, who they traded for with the race. And then there was another young pitcher. Who was it Thompson, who was a first-round pick? but I kind of liked where you jump, Trev, because I guess in my head, I've closed them off to free agent starting pitching,

which could be wrong. Like you throwing Yamamoto out there. I don't know. I don't think I believe in that. I think there's a lot of other teams that are willing to go to a next level bag-wise that the Cardinals probably don't feel they need. Although Newt bar is there, I don't know.

Go nuts. Cardinals, go nuts. Cardinals owner, you can, so why won't you? I've been waiting for Cardinals trade for two years, man. And there is pitchers to be traded for out there. We did this last episode, like between C's and Glassnow. Who are the other guys? C's Glass Now.

Why am I blank? Corbyn Burns. Like, you know, I don't know how stoked they feel about trade and division. But, like, there are bodies to be traded. for and I've been waiting for a Cardinals trade that it feels like for two years now that hey you know where the Cardinals have landed right now the TPP would be us going honestly we would land it like I don't know this Cardinals team could figure it out and be a good team or they could be bad again if they went out and they got another bona fide starter whether that's you know one of the

guys I mentioned I think you'd put them ahead of Sunny Gray on the depth chart you know then we're talking Cardinals' favorite for the Central. Yeah, no, I don't disagree. We'll see what the Cubs do. Like you said, like they're supposed to be heavy players in free agency. Trying to line show, hey, I kind of like where their squad is at. Same thing with the Reds. They showed us a lot last year, but where do you go in the second year?

Can you continue to do that? Can you... There's a lot of things happening in the Central. I think it can be up for grabs. I think this lineup can be elite. I really think this could be like a like a top seven lineup in baseball, maybe even higher than that.

Last year, C. Rose and I said at one point, we think they could outpace the Braves. That take aged horribly. No doubt about it because the Braves are one of the best offenses we ever seen. But there's people here that can go and do it, man. Like go look at their freaking lineup.

It's good. So you have to attack the starting pitching market, which they've done. I like the trade. aspect here. There's some quotes out there saying, oh, we're going to spend $50 million in free agency,

where they've already spent close to that. Basically spent, you know, 35, 40 already. So bringing in somebody else a real deal starting pitcher via free agency, probably if you're going to stick to that number, doesn't really work.

But if you trade, you know, one of your young outfielders and bring in a guy who has some team control, you can do it that way. So we will see, man. We will see what ends up happening. But I do,

like the start of the off season. You know what I like? I like going to get sunny, but I like getting the back end of the rotation kind of set early. I feel like that gives you a leg up on your competitors. Like we have these two guys here. We just need now to go get our guy.

They went out and got sunny and I feel great for him, man. In 2018, I think he, that was when he was with the Yankees had a bad year and he was like 29, you know, like, oh, he's 30. Like, is this going to be the end for Sunny Gray? And he's been pretty dang good since that year.

And we were talking about before the show. Pitch mix means a lot. He adds that sweeper this year. And that just kind of took him to a different level here. So I'm excited for Sonny. He's a hard worker. You're going to get that short king, which I know you like. But he's so difficult. He's just a very, very difficult pitcher to game plan for.

And again, we've talked about that before in the show. Yeah, I do think what's another thing that's going to be. interesting for the Cardinals. It's at kind of the end of the offseason when you check in and you look at all the other signings, and not everything's equal. Like I, you know, again, Aaron Nola made it seem like he wanted to play in Philadelphia. Sunny Gray technically AAV is getting more than him. Sunny Gray is getting $25 million a year where Nola is getting 24-5-7. So again, everything there is not apples and apples so you can't play that game. But I wonder if, you know, Gibby and Lance Lynn, I think

Gibby's looking at one for 13, Lance was in the same range that, depending how free agency sorts out, could that have been a different starting pitcher? Could that have been, you know, could Gibby and Lance Lynn been Snell? You know, I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see what that contract looks like.

Like, I think the allocation of money game, did we do that on an episode one time? Was that talking Yanks, or was that talking baseball that we did like, would you rather have, would you have rather sign these three guys? Probably a talking yanks conversation. I think that's just going to be,

it's going to be interesting to look at because we think you know what you're going to get from Lance Lynn and Gibby, and we think they were paying for innings, and clubhouse stuff like does matter, especially with this team. But you wonder where that Snell number lands. We think it's probably higher A.A.V. less years,

but, you know, could you have, could you have no, it's Snell and then you have Snell and Sunny Gray instead of Gibby and Lynn, but then you're still looking for innings. I don't know. I just think that's going to be an interesting exercise. I think if you're a Cardinals fan, you have to be, every offseason has a lot of hope and a lot of mystery. You have to be in a good place right now, right? I mean, maybe. Yeah, a horrible season last year. So you're cautiously optimistic,

I guess. I was just giving a look at their top prospects. You're going to love these names. There's four in the top 100. Tink and Ticoa. Yeah. Let's go. Tink, Ticoa, and Gordon. Yeah. And that's leave Mason Win.

Mason Win. Mason Win, awesome name. Shortstop. You're going to be great. So they have three guys in the top 100 overall prospects that are pitchers that's, you know, maybe they envision can help them at some point next year, hopefully. So maybe that's, maybe they are done. Maybe they are said, hey, we got, you know,

know, these five, six guys at the big league level. We got the guys coming up. Let's go focus on something else on a roster. But I kind of like where you're going there. Could Lance and Givie have been somebody else? I don't know. I'll have to see what the rest of the offseason provides. Cardinals, hey, making moves.

The last place, NL Central Cardinals, trying to flip the script from last year. How crazy was all that? I know we've kind of... It was insane. I've tried to forget it. Is Ali Marmal still their manager? I think so.

I think him and Gibson. Daniel Descalso, though, back in the fold. I think we should mention that. I think he's a first base coach, or bench coach. Which is a tough job to just hop into that, Danny. Okay.

He's got it. It's dirty Danny. He's a buddy in line. Team USA back in the day. What's up, bro? Way back. Come on. Friends with John Jay.

You know what? I met him on my first Arizona trip. I think he was on the field, and I was like, hey, what's up? Another short king. I think we took a picture together. Yeah, I think I was happy with that. I think I was happy with the result there. Weren't far.

Trev, I think the other conversation is starting pitching market. A little bit, your twins. Kenta Maeda signs with the Detroit Tigers. So there was a little smoke and fire on this one. We heard rumors around Thanksgiving. Comes out two for 24, I believe. So kind of in that 12 million range that Gibby, Lance Lynn, although they have options.

Maeda's locked in with the Detroit Tigers. And I think for baseball fans, I do think there's a little bit, and sometimes the comment section gets tough on JOM, because I think Jom will be a little bit like, hey, I don't, this could mean nothing. These are the Detroit Tigers. We've seen them struggle in the past couple years. They were supposed to be hitting their window.

Things fell apart, hitting-wise, and then injuries to a lot of their pitching. I don't know. I think for the baseball hardos in an AL-Central that continues to feel open, the Detroit Tigers have done some head turns between trading for Mark Kanna, Torkelson having a big second half, Riley Green putting a season together. And now they sign Kent to Maeda, and they've got a, if you've been a baseball person who's been into prospects and kind of what was supposed to open this tiger's window,

scoble, Matt Manning, Casey Mize, you know, a lot of those guys have dealt with injuries or performance or something. Reese Olson kind of had a nice breakout season for them. And now Kenta Maeda, who pitched in the AL Central last year for your twins, coming off of injury. He's a guy that's had some lights out season. He's 35 now. He goes over to the Detroit Tigers,

and it's got everyone being like, what do we need to do with these Detroit Tigers? Like, are they going to be a fun, feisty team this year in the Central? It's kind of looking like that a little bit. I think so. I don't think there's any team that's like far in a way better in the Central. I mean, I'm supposed to say my twins, but, you know, there's some things they have to figure out as well.

The tigers have pieces. I think, you know, you can dream. You're a Tigers fan. You can dream about a wildcard contention season. I think you can dream about maybe pushing for the A.O. Central title, if all things go right. Because you're right. You have some guys in that lineup. You know, if Torquison really takes that next leap, we've seen Riley the Green be incredible.

My guy, was Jesus a good carpenter, Carrie Carpenter doing his thing? Like they have some players there, dude. And the, the quote unquote rebuild was supposed to be about, yeah, these prospect pitchers and how all that was going to line up. And there's been some injuries there. But if we get everyone kind of coming back and Maeda's, myeda impressed me a lot. Obviously, I knew who he was as a pitcher. But when you have T.J, I think he had a different type of T.J. Like the internal brace version of it.

He came back from that. had, what was it? I don't know if it was bicep tendonitis or shoulder tendinitis. So he was supposed to come back early last year, then had another injury. And then when he did come back, it was like, man, what's, what's going to happen? This guy hasn't pitched in a long time. He actually had some really, really good starts and was like really impressive. I think his first start was against the Tigers, if I'm not mistaken.

He came back and his splitter was splitting. And he was missing a lot of bats. And I think obviously that's the main pitch. for him is that splitter. And what I saw with Kenta, for Tigers fans, is as long as the control is there, he's getting a ton of swings and misses and getting a ton of, you know, bad at bats put up against him. It's an interesting type of pitcher to watch, you know, in a game of power arms.

Like you have this guy, Kenta up there and his 85, 90 mile an hour fastball is playing up, dude. I love when you see that. It really is. You're getting a lot of late swings on that fastball because of the splitter. So yeah, he joins the rotation, some stability there. Very nice guy. Clubhouse will be interesting.

You know, it's tough when you have to have an interpreter kind of go around with you a lot to have like a huge meaningful impact on a clubhouse. But I think he can with his work ethic. Because I saw how he goes about his business. And I think that's important, man. I really do. I always bring that up because it is, it is important to have that chemistry going on. I think Kenta brings that, but I'm intrigued by the Tigers.

I am. Are you still mad you sat next to Kent on the plane and I think he just thought you were a fan or something? Yeah, no, I'm not at all. Not at all. I'm not mad at that at all. I think that's awesome. You don't think about it or. He's, no, he's, he's great.

He is, he is a phenomenal person, great style if that, that means anything. He's a swagger hound. I was always looking at his fits. That could be important for the kids in that rotation. He's a swagger hound. I was like, dang, where'd be you all that shit? He's like, what are you talking about? Who are you?

Please don't. Aren't you a reporter? Please don't bother me. I got him, I ate a butter knife, if you're interesting. I think I might have it too, but where'd you start, Bebs? I was just looking at his game logs and went to confirm the at Detroit start, which correct. That's the start he made back.

The game he got hurt was three innings, 10 earned against the Yankees. So just take that guy out. He's got a three, four, six, and 101 innings. Yeah, I was going from since he, came back from that injury. And it's where ERA can be deceptive. April, he has a tough April. He gets her 10 earned runs against the Yankees.

That's an ERA Rooner. He comes back June 23rd through the rest of the season. 17 games, 88.1 innings pitched 103 strikeouts. So Maeda was punching tickets. People were taking bad swings against him. To the tune of a 3-3-6. So that's where, I mean, the Tiger. front office probably saw that.

They saw it firsthand, I think, and not to put it down. I do think three of those 16 starts are against Detroit, which that's fine. That's fine. They don't have to face them now. But tell them what they're doing wrong. That's what they're seeing, and that's what they're banking on for the next two years. So also, as I say, off-season signings, you know, Kentimaeata versus Gibby or Lance Lynn, You know, those are going to be some interesting comparisons.

And the Tigers, you know, we kind of laughed when they traded Canada. It was the first move of the offseason. It's like, here we go, hot stove, Canada to the Tigers. Hey, if you're in the walls of baseball, you know what? Carrie Carpenter hit a lot last year, your guy. Torkelson turned it on. Riley Green. There's something there with Mark Kanna being an MLB bat.

Can a Parker Meadows take a leap? Zach McKinstree was a helpful utility guy. Avi Baez is on this team. If they get some juice and they can be a competitive team, can he find something? I know some Tiger fans are even laughing at that statement. I'm interested to see where the rest of their offseason goes because in that A.L. Central, man,

you show a little bit of juice, and you're going to have hope going into the season and hope's a dangerous thing. Ooh. You like that? It's like a movie quote. Sounds like it? Yeah.

I think so. I don't know a movie. We know offense is obviously their biggest issue there, but Maida, obviously, some injury concerns with any pitcher. But, you know, he's kind of your stabilizer. Terrick Scoobal, his last 200 innings of MLB baseball, are really impressive. The one full year we've gotten of Casey Mize was sneaky. I think he good. One-one pick.

One-one pick. He's supposed to be that guy. Like they've got a rotation you can actually believe in. They need things to break their way. Every team does. Manning. What do you got, Trev?

Hand-raised. Play Matt Veerling. That's what I want, Tigers. I want you to play that guy. You love Matt Verling. I think he could be an awesome. I do love Matt Veerling.

Every time I watch him, a big old M-Fers making a play, stealing a base. I don't want to be stolen bases last year. There's six bases, but I don't know why. I always saw him making plays. They'd be... Tigers fans, hit me up.

You know, we've been doing a lot of what's available. You know, we did a talking baseball trade candidate episode. There's some second basement available. And the Detroit Tigers be an interesting landing spot. Jonathan India to the Tigers? Jonathan India, Glaber Torres. Like, there's options at the second base position. Like, you put Glabre Torres.

in this Tigers lineup right now, that's, I don't know. It would feel different. So I'm interested to see where the rest of their offseason goes. They also, they have some prospects on the way. I always laugh when I look at their prospect list. They have a Wilmer Flores, who's a top 100 prospect. So I kind of need double Wilmers. They've also got names, Trev, Colt, Keith, Jace Young,

Josh's bro in that org. I mentioned Parker Meadows. He's Austin Meadows brother. So I don't know. They're still going to be relying on a lot of young pieces, which can sometimes be a tough baseball formula, or oftentimes it's the formula we see teams take a jump. And it's like, yeah, that's because they had three players become MLB dudes.

So interested to see the rest of their offseason. Trev, I guess kind of closing a loop on the pitching before we move on. to the Aeohenio trade, and there's some other rumors and stuff. I don't know. I guess do you think does the Sunny Gray signing change your view of the market at all? And I guess are you worried for their twins? I mean, they lose two guys, and I know they've been talking about cutting payroll. Like, I don't really get the twins off-season plan.

And it felt like they had good juice, right? Like Royce Lewis has become, like, a stud. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there are rumors and talks that they are going to either sit pat on the payroll or even reduce it because of the TV deal that went sideways. Hey, by the way, hit me up guys. You know me on the TV. Yeah. Um, I think they feel good about their spot in the central and also their rotation.

Yeah, sure, like sunny grade, they would love to have him back. Who wouldn't you second the Cy Young last year? He was the leader of that team. it was awesome to see but they feel good they have Pablo leading the way they have Joe Ryan behind him the nightmare Bailey Ober

Louis Varland a couple different guys coming up as well so I think they feel okay about the starting rotation I don't know I don't know what moves they are looking to make I'd be very curious

and I'd be shocked if they went in and went out and got any of the free agent starters I don't think that's going to happen I think the trade market is probably where they'll make some upgrades I feel like they feel good about where they're at

in the central and just in general yeah I mean I guess you know Pablo Lopez Joe Ryan Bailey Ober Paddock should be back into a start That's right Paddock is back in Louis V and that's a good fight

You need depth they know they need depth So whether they go get that you know with one of the lesser free agent pitchers or go into the trade market. I'd assume that's probably where they'll go. But they've got a lot of good pieces there. Yeah, they do. And a surplus, they have trade candidates.

Well, I don't know if you talked about them on the episode or not, but signing back Polanco and Kepler to their options, I don't think, I think they end up trading those guys in the off season because you're going to get a Max Kepler or Jorge Polanco one year for $10 million, a lot of teams would like that. Yeah, I mentioned the second baseman trademark. You throw Polanco in there. You know, maybe not.

I hope they don't. I love him so much. Yeah, and it feels like he's always been rumored, and if you made it to this point, and he was like he had a kind of really big impact on that team last year. It just doesn't seem to be time. It does feel like the twins are going to have a retool of sorts, and I'm excited to see what that is,

because you're right. Like the assets and chips, not, yeah, no, Retool is the word. What does the retool mean? This is a team that won the Central. I think they still have pieces. I think they have too many of the same puzzle pieces and they need to, like, I don't know. Like, could they go and trade for Corbyn Burns?

Like, they've got some young assets that, you know, and then if you have some young guys, yes, they have guys. If you were looking at Corbyn Burns and Pablo Lopez at the top of that rotation, like, yo, I don't know. but there's a lot of teams saying that right now. So I just don't know. I think they have the puzzle pieces that the twins will probably be the favorites in the AL Central to start next year. I just don't know how to get there.

So I'm excited to watch it. Know what else I get excited for, Trev? Cold blue moon. I really do. I really do. Sounds delicious. Had a few this holiday season. You know, some people said I might have had a few

when I was letting out my Dolly Parton tweets. They weren't wrong, but I believe in it. I mean, for Dolly at her age, coming out in the Cowboys cheerleader outfit, my goodness. Blue Moon, people. It's the perfect match with baseball. It's the perfect match for the baseball offseason. It's good on the weekends.

It's good for Happy Hour. It's Blue Moon, you know it. And they also have some new offerings. They got their light sky with real tangerine peel taste. The Moon Hays, if you like those juicy bursts like I do, Uh, the holidays are here and you might need one or two to get through it and do that with Blue Moon. It's beer that's made brighter.

And hey, why don't you get the weed ale that you know, the light sky or the moon haze delivered by visiting get dot bluemoon beer.com slash baseball for delivery options. That's get dot blue moon beer.com slash baseball. Blue Moon made brighter. Uh, it was brewed by baseball. Gold in Colorado, click the link in the description, get yourself a couple bruskees. Trev, before we do some, I don't want to say rumor mill stuff, we had like an Otani scare this weekend, but I think we land there. Let's get this trade done because it's with the World Series team and it's with an impact player and kind of a talking baseball legend.

Yes. Your guy, Eugenio Suarez, handsome. gets traded from the Mariners to the debacks for Sebi Savala, who's been a backup catcher the past few years. And I think the real trade asset is Carlos Vargas. He's a 24-year-old pitcher, hits triple digits, struggle with control, got a taste of the show this year. What I can tell from this trade, the dimebacks,

get Aeohenio Suarez, who, yeah, he's going to strike out, but he's also going to be, he's going to give you some pop. He's had a over 100 OPS plus. I want to say like seven out of his 10 seasons. He plays a lot. He played every game last year. He's played almost every game the past couple years. He's going to give you pop.

He's going to play solid defense. And he has a, I think it's $11 million for next year with a $15 million team option. So I think he has a $1 million. if we're being honest, I think there's a, I don't want to say salary dump aspect to this. I think Aeuhaneo's contract is around what he is as a ball player. And the Mariners probably see something in the young pitching arm of Carlos Vargas that they think they can tap into a little more.

I don't know, as a, you know, famous snakes fan. You have to like this. You're getting the MLB talent that's a lock for, either a year worst case or two years best case. And if you're a Mariners fan, I don't know. There's got to be, I don't want to say a little head scratch, but a little nerves. Like, Eugenio's been a guy on that team and he's gone now. Okay.

So I think there's a few reasons for both sides to make this deal, which makes it a great trade. And usually that's why trades end up happening because both sides feel like they need to make an adjustment. For the Mariners, they were striking out too much last year. It's all we ever talked about. Mariner's fans. They strike out too much. The offense is this. So if you want to make a change, an adjustment to your approach,

like a guy like Eugenio, he's, he is who he is, bro. Like, he's going to strike out. He's going to hit you some homers. If you're trying to get away from that and have a more contact-oriented approach, then, oh my gosh, my eye. Treve? Sorry.

Someone like flew in my eye or something. If you're trying to have a more contact-oriented approach, I mean, it makes sense that you try to move him, move some Sally like you're saying, and try something different. For the Diamondbacks, I love the move. And the GMs already come out and said, you know, some of the things that I was thinking,

it's stability at that position. I mean, I love Longo, and I thought he was great for the clubhouse. I thought he provided on the field as well. But it's a platoon spot for them over the last couple of years. So now you have a guy, you just plug in, don't worry about it, set it, forget it, he's going to be your third basement. I think there's something to that for a GM, for a manager to be able to just say, hey, here's

one part of our lineup that's said. It makes sense. And you mentioned his defense. I think that's important to the dime backs. They continue to play strong defense. He can do that. And then, yeah, you throw 30 homers in the bag while you're at it. So I kind of think this makes, it does make sense for both sides.

I'm curious what the Mariners are going to do. We haven't really dove into their offseason or what they're going to do just yet on this show. But for the debacks coming off a World Series run, trying to improve the roster, I think it's awesome, man. I think people are going to end up liking it. I likened him in the lineup. And I mentioned to you before the show, sneaky hot boys down there in the desert. I'm looking at this lineup and I'm a liking it. I think there's a lot of not just the looks, Jake.

I know you went there right away, but I think they're starting to round it outward. Like you have some, you have some contact guys. You have some speed. Now you have some extra power to go along with some of the guys that have been given that to you, like Christian Walker over the last couple years. And we saw Gabby Moreno kind of turn the power on in the playoffs.

Like, I think they have a nice mixture there down in Arizona. Yeah, I mean, you know, Fangraph's roster resource. I shout them out as much as I can because it's a great. page if you're a baseball fan to look at lineups and depth charts, minor leagues, all of it. You know, Gabby Moreno, the 23-year-old catcher who had seven homers in the regular season, was the three-hitter for the snakes throughout most of the playoffs.

They've slotted Suarez into their three-hole. Corbyn-Carrul-Catel Marte and Suarez. He also got Christian Walker there who had, you know, regular season was incredible, post-season wasn't as much. that, you know, when you look at that on paper, and that was one of the things. When you looked at the Rangers and the snakes, you're like, God, there's some guys in the bottom of this Rangers lineup

that would be at the top of the snakes lineup. They positioned themselves well, and I think one of the more, one of the more, I don't want to say controversial, free agents of this offseason, because he's actually the opposite of that as a person and a player, Matt Chapman.

Uh, your guy. He's, he's one of the big fish this free agency. And I know there, there's teams that flip-flop. Like, how much money do they want to give him? He's going to get a hundred mill. You know you're going to get great defense. It's what's he going to provide with the bat. I've actually more or less talked myself into Matt Chapman. Uh, and, oh, how big of your team? How big of me? Uh, no, because the Yankees, unfortunately, are all right-handed. So I, I wish they had a, had room for Matt Chapman. I think Matt Chapman has given me kind of third baseman Marcus Simian. Like, I remember when Simeon signed, he hasn't had the crazy Simeon year that

Simeon had in Toronto that got his market value up. But he had one in Oakland. Yeah. If Matt Chapman this year was a final year of free agency and he went off, he'd be almost a $200 million player. And right now he's coming off kind of a mixed back. of a year where he had the huge month and then he fell off. Like, I don't know.

I think Matt Chapman, if you can lock up that defense, which is platinum, that there's more in that bat. Like, if he gets with the right org, that contract can become a steal in a couple years. I know for Snake's fans, they were a little nervous about Matt Chapman. Like coming off the World Series that the other side of that is, if Matt Chapman stays what he is with the bat, you know, teams like Arizona can't give out.

big money at every position, that they were worried that coming off the World Series, he was going to be their big ad, and that was going to be the wow move of the offseason, and it could be a hit, it could be a miss. And I think they're also a little gun-shy because their last big free agent was Madison Bumgarner. So I think snakes fans have a little bit of fear there.

They address their third baseman need maybe for the next two years. And it'll be interesting to see, what else are they going to do this off season? because the snakes operate differently. Like we've said that for a few years. They're coming off of a World Series. They feel like they're in a window. I wonder what they've got up their sleeves

because this isn't the end for them. Such a wild statement. Coming off a World Series runs for snakes, bro. They're in the window. This is... I want to go back to Matt Chapman a little bit. You can't just throw all that shit out there. I know. I shouldn't tease you with Matt Chapman.

That's my bad. You tugged on the tail a little bit. I think he'll be closer to do $200 million than he is $100 million. How about that? I think so. Yeah, so that's $150 and above. Interesting. Yeah, because we're rounding up. I think so.

I think he's going to demand $25 a year and how many years is he going to get? This guy, Jake, say what you want about his offense, okay? He had a $755.0.000 last year. He still produced a 4-4 war. Right. Like, this guy's floor is extremely high. and I think the ceiling is also extremely high. Those are the guys you want on your team.

Like if this guy goes to a different org and he's had some like hip stuff, like if he feels really healthy and he gets with someone that can kind of like really tap into his offensive side, which he has. He's got, he's strong, he can hit for power. He's going to get paid, man.

And you're going to be thanking your lucky stars that you sign. him. I promise that. Whatever signs Matt Chapman is going to be so happy. So anyways, that's my matchup, Grant. Love him so much. Trev, that's where we're kind of on the same page. So fan graphs, they have their crowdsourced results for free agent contracts. And they've been they've been pretty good this year. Sunny, sunny they had three for 63. He got three for 75. So they were off by like four million a year there. Nola, six for 150. He got seven for 172. so they were a year off on the contract.

So, you know, I think the supply and demand of free agency, normally there's a little more. They have Matt Chapman going four for 80. And that's where, even if that's five for a hundred, and it's why I've been making the Simeon comparison, is that you said when Simeon signed that it was a big contract. It was like, wait, this guy's a 200-mill guy, Simeon. You said as an organization, even as a person,

to give that kind of money to someone. Like, that's a big responsibility. And you said Marcus Simeon as a guy is the guy you want, like work ethic-wise, what he's going to represent to the team. Even if he's not producing to the level you hope, and he has, so throw that out the window. Like, as a guy representing your org and leading your team, that's what you want, I think Matt Chapman is that guy too.

Like, you said from day one in Oakland, as he replaced you, that's okay he did that like he was a man about it and like he demands like a certain level of like respect from his teammates work ethic wise that if you're going to give like i don't know i guess i was a little bit of worried about matt chapman with the stick for a hundred million dollar player and i think you know defensively he might get you 75 and i think that bat might have a lot in it with the work ethic and with the clubhouse respect that I've, where Matt Chapman's free agent could, free agency could potentially be, I've talked myself into him because I know the exit Velo numbers and the hard hit, like, the stuff is there that a good coaching staff, San Francisco, I think Matt Chapman can be a guy. And I wonder, like, is Seattle in play for Matt Chapman? Like, they, they just opened up a third base spot. And I tell you what, Trev, for a team that they're supposed to be in the middle of their window,

right? Like, part of that Mariners lineup is looking thin right now. The bottom four right now is listed as Cade Marlowe, Luis Ureus, Canzon,

and Josh Rojas. Canzon's got some pipes on him, if I remember correctly. That's a hot boy, a good pison, but... Yeah, no, the Mariners are... You know, I have a very interesting

relationship with the Mariners and their fan base. I don't... they're changing their organizational philosophy. If they're getting away from Eugenio, I don't think they, like, Chapman's not,

they don't, he's not like a contact oriented guy either. A different player than Eugenio, I would say he's a better player than Eohenio. I think that's, I think that's fair to say, you know, maybe,

maybe it's not as big of a separation as I'm giving it. I don't know. What's weird to me is like, they've already said, there's rumors that they're out on Otani. Is that right? Yeah, that like came out and everyone was like, I don't, what's this even mean? Yeah, what are you even talking about it?

Like, you should not be out on anyone right now because you do, like, you are in this window. You do have this pitching and you do have this young superstar who you just locked up. And you do, like, there are so many things to like about Seattle. Like, now is not the time to let off the gas. I don't know how anyone could think it's time to let off the gas. So I'm assuming they're not going to. and I'm assuming like they're in play for some of these names. I don't know who, but I'd be shocked, man.

I really would. I'd be shocked with the Mariners. It's like, didn't make a splash this offseason. I would give them this. You'd like to think, man, their rotation is one of the best in baseball. They were first in whip last year, fourth in ERA. Like, it's a lot of young talent up and down the roster that, yeah, I don't know. I guess the trading of Eohenio Suarez, who you had penciled in for 160 games,

you know, good pop in the middle of your lineup, a team that finished middle of the pack offensively. Like, you'd like to hope that this is a first move that opens up a move for a free agent or a trade or whatever that is. Because this Seattle roster, Tasker Hernandez and Eohenio Suarez gone? You know, you just lost two of your biggest three threats. Julio's obviously number one. Cal Raleigh has his own argument.

But. Probably the problem is, I think we said kind of awfully similar things about Mariners' last offseason. Their fan base was expecting a big move last year coming off the good vibes of 2022. and it just never happened. So I'm on NLB trade rumors, and the stuff that we just talked about is kind of echoed here. A deal for, they're saying a deal for Matt Chapman would be wildly uncharacteristic for Depoto.

He hasn't signed a free agent hitter to a multi-year deal since taking the reins in Seattle. That's a direct quote from the article. And then it goes on to mention some of the guys we talked about. Jonathan India, Jorge Polanco, don't even dare go get my guy, Kyle Farmer. But then there's Gio Rochella, Justin Turner. So all these guys are mentioned.

But I don't know if any of those guys are an upgrade over Suarez. And then you're, what do you have to pay them? You're paying Suarez. I think I could see some guys on par with Suarez. But no one's an upgrade, I don't think, besides a Chapman. Yeah, look, hey, Depoto, Mariner's ownership. Let's go. Don't make me, what is you doing, baby, you, this early in the off season.

Don't make me do it. I will. Yeah, that's Mariners. I mean, Rangers just won the World Series. Astros are still there. Angels actually might be in a worse spot. So, Mariner's, you miss the playoffs this year. But they won more than 53% of their game, so it was a good year.

Interested to see their next action. Trev, what else do you? we need to hit on here. I mean, we had the Otani scare over the weekend. Howie Rose got in the mix. Tough follow-up tweet from Howie. Had us on edge for a little bit. I was, you know, I...

Howie, Howie Howie? Let me tell you something about putting stuff out there. Okay, bro. Yeah. Don't walk it back like that. He walked it back hard. He walked... I said might. That's why we don't put might in there. Just stand by what you said. I heard some stuff. Didn't pan out. Oops.

Are you the first person to do that? How we have some stones and man up about a little bit. You got it wrong. It's okay. Nobody knows shit, especially with the Otani. This is the thing about Otani. They are keeping this thing tight. I text to you guys.

My boy, Nez, he hasn't missed sending me a Thanksgiving, happy Thanksgiving text since 2004. He didn't send me a Thanksgiving text this year. And I was pissed. And I said, hey, you must be grinding. if you didn't send me a happy Thanksgiving text. And he did get back to me right away, and he said grinding would be an understatement.

They are, they're doing it. They're doing their due diligence, and they're talking to teams, but they're keeping it tight. We haven't heard one fucking thing, dude. And I think that is awesome. Don't you? Yes and no.

Like the part you like about it, I like. It would also, you know, doing a quote unquote good for baseball thing. Like it, like if we had a different Otani room, every day. Like if, you know, if the tweet came out right now, like Otani met with the Reds and we were like, whoa, okay, I didn't even think about that. Like, yeah, Otani be great in Cincinnati. Sorry for the giggle, Cincinnati. I just, I don't. That is messed up. I don't see that as a landing destination for him. Last year during a two or three week period, they were the best

team in baseball and everyone wouldn't shut up about it and were yelling at us. And I was like, hey, maybe you just calm down. It's just a couple weeks here. Telly. Give me Snell to Sincey. Yeah, I don't know. The other part of that, if you don't know, probably a lot of you know, how he rose broadcasts for the Mets.

So people are, you know, if he has, if he said he's hearing about today, you'd like to think that would be connected with one organization, which, I don't know, the Mets were my original, just Jake Simple Math in my head. If I'm Steve Cohen and I'm trying to make, the Mets, not the Mets anymore.

You sign Shohay Otani and you are, you've rebranded the whole team. I know everyone's kind of out on the Mets for next year, but the Otani signing's a decade-type deal. So I don't know. It fits every time. In my head, that was in play, but coming off their season and with all the Dodgers and it didn't seem back in play, anything's in play for Shohay still. And I, I don't know. Are they just, is it just going to happen randomly at some point?

Is there just going to be a tweet? Otani signed with blank? Yes, I think I keep saying this. I would love to just go and text Nes. Give me something. Give me something. I will not do that. I'm just not that kind of person.

I don't want to have that type of relationship with him. But like just talking to him about like being Shohei's agent. He says that, you know, like privacy and that kind of. you know, like not letting things slip is like at the forefront of what he wants. Yeah. So, and they've done such a good job, man. Like, can you remember the last time we've had a high profile free agency like this? And we don't even know the teams he's talked to, bro.

You could guess. Yeah. You know, oh, there's this plane. We saw him on and this is this. I say, no, man. I don't know this, but I think everyone's coming to him. Like, I don't think he's going anywhere unless he wants to. I would assume so, right?

Because not to go like baseball paparazzi mode, but, you know, we would, if someone saw Otani in the streets of New York. It's kind of hard to hide. He's a big motherfucker. Right? He's big. Yeah, I would guess he's,

he's chilling somewhere. Yeah, where is he? And literally the only, like, report we've gotten on his free agency is at any team that let stuff leak, it'll be held against you. So. Tough that.

Like the mafia. dude. Love that. I think if Angerad is not really going to get anything until... People didn't think that John Boy Media was going to sign Chris Rose and we did. Yeah. Yeah. I like the idea of Shohei renting out just a pimp house somewhere

in a random city and saying hey, I'm going to be here for a month and at the end of this month I will sign somewhere. You guys are... Doors open. Let me know when you're coming through. If Shohay said, let me ask you guys

this is hypothetical. And I think we're probably done with the show after this, but... If show A say, hey, I want to sign a three-year deal with your team.

You know, I'm not going to pitch the first year, but I'm going to give you two after that. What's the AV on that? How many years? Three. 50 per.

Maybe 60. Probably that first year you use as justification to bring it down, but those second two years are the crazy number. For the first year, 60-60.

So you're talking about. If he wasn't hurt, the short years actually kind of hurts him a little bit. I don't believe that. But no, I don't even know why. I don't even know why I ask that question. Because you're horny for it. A baseball player is probably about to get $50 million per year. I bet Randy Wolfe.

I won't tell you what we bet. There's a handshake. Just a gentleman's bet. That show head, this is before show hey got hurt. Andy Wolves. Yeah. How hilarious. That's your first mistake.

I tell him all the time. Change him. I would have taken you so far up top. He said, I didn't stick around the league because I was bad, bro. Check my numbers. I bet him that he would make over 45 AAV. Okay. And that was before he got hurt.

I thought that's a slam dunk. No doubt about your stupid for betting me. I still think that. I still think he ends up around 50. a year, depending on the years. It's crazy. Randy Wolf, 16 years in the show. Trev, thank you.

If there's big breaking news, we're on call, you know? People call us the doctors of baseball. Yeah. If not, we will be back here Wednesday. There's a tough Saturday, Sunday overlap. So we get through Friday, just to know we would love for everybody to wait until like Monday. Could be interesting this weekend. Well, it will be interesting this weekend, but that's another story for another time.

Go buy some merch. I think we got a Cyber Monday sale going on. Oh, yeah. Go check that out. Subscribe. Say Cyber Monday again. Review Cyber Monday. Cyber Monday.

Stink. Stock a ball. Don't bring that in here, Randy. It's a Walker, a double kid. You and Eddie Godardo get it. I don't know. about Eddie. Old heads.

Eddie goes, I would just... Eddie, you don't know. Nothing about the modern game, bro. Eddie be right under your hands. I don't know.