Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Chris Sale TRADED to the Braves | 763

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

Use code TALKIN for $20 off your first SeatGeek order.Timestamps:00:00 INTRO04:24 Chris Sale traded to the Braves19:20 Red Sox sign Lucas Giolito31:57 Mariners sign Mitch Garver40:45 Blue Jays bring back Kiermaier + sign IKF52:41 Reds sign Frankie Montas53:14 OUTRO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. The Red Sox got some players said goodbye to some players. The Blue Jays say hello to some players. Woo Suck, go! Finds himself in San Diego. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. Thank you very much for joining us today. It's brought to you by Seatkeek.

My name is Jimmy. We've had Jake sitting next to me. Trev coming to you from California. And BBD producing Big Baby Dan, not Dave. on the ones and twos filling in for Bebs who's in Austria, which is fake Germany. Why don't you just go to Germany? And we lost all of our Austrian listeners, damn. And we sent Bebs there just to get some more.

Trev, how you doing? How was your holidays and your New Year's Eve? James, thank you for asking. It was great. Had a nice little party on New Year's, kind of went all out. So my first day of 2024, not so hot, kind of reliance. and just recuperated. But I'm excited.

I just told you guys, it's Kobe year, it's T. Plouffe year. We're like, we're going to be doing it. And I'm excited to talk small because there has been a lot of moves. I know the offseason seems slow, but I feel like some of these moves are actually very impactful on the season. I know we got some bigger names ready to go, but I'm excited to like kind of pick your brain. I've been, I had a show at see Rosie the other day.

We talked about it a little bit. I'm excited to see where you guys are at and all this stuff. I'm not going to talk about the Yankees with. you because Dan's here and I just he's even more psycho than you two so I'm going to stay away from that lane but I'm doing well to answer your question

Jake great great sweater to start 2024 off Trevor James Dan what up you know excited to talk ball with the fellas I mean that's what it's about that's what 2024 is Kobe year

Pasada to Kobe people are calling it Oh Dick Groot 13th best baseball player number 24. Dan bleep that out. Tom Bernanski. Okay, bleep that out too. Jimmy Wynn, my nickname.

You said there's a lot of moves. There's a lot of hopeful impact moves, whether it's Sale, Gialito, Frankie Montas, and those Cincinnati Reds, watch out. Mitch Garver getting the bag. So I don't know. I'm interested to dive in and see if there's more to it than we've been looking at.

And man, we are in a real, like, A, we were talking some yanks before you hopped on, Trevor, but we're in such a funky part of the off season, and the sale trade probably kicks it off of, like, the value of where starting pitchers are at and the money you might have to commit to the risk-reward of those pitchers. Like, we have hit a funky part of the off-season that I hope the trade market's about to go,

because we've talked about that a lot, and it hasn't fully gone yet. because I don't know there's still like has have hitter free agents started uh it has

it has guys are taking their time I mean look it's not easy to make a deal with with these players or with the teams like you know they both have asks and a lot of times this is what it's come to is the waiting game who can hold out the longest

I know you're not good at that Jake but that's how it goes I just like to get it out and grab a sandwich. Wham, bam, slam, thank you, ma'am. This is Jaka. I've been great. Sandwich. I never had that urge. And make sure you go to Seekek. If you got the urge to go see a show, concert, festival,

whatever you might get into, Seek has 70,000 events every single day. And with Code Talking, you will get $20 off your first purchase at Seekek. $20 off your first purchase at Seek. $20 off your first purchase with promo code talking green means good red means bad apps pretty easy to use go download it maybe get some spring training ticks it's like that kind of year my gosh seek geek code talk and download the app all right we got a lot of moves we're going to start with the braves and the red socks and you know one takeaway i guess like you said jake some of these signings are being able to

start to paint a big picture of this offseason. And it is kind of, one is that there's a lot of, a lot of big gambling going on. The rates are up and the guarantee, like, results are low this off season, in my opinion. Also, remember we did that ad for that guy who just, like, loved buying your old shit?

What was his name? Yeah, I remember that guy. It's a company, but it was named after a guy. I want to say Dallas Clark, but that was the old tight end for... No, it was like... I thought it was like Tom Sopton. It was the man. Tom Clark, card buying or something like that.

Well, anyway, it feels like the Braves sent out a huge announcement. And it was like, if you're dumping payroll, but it's not that much, we're interested. Come our way. We're buy your trash. You know those commercials? We're buying your old car. We're going to flip it. That's what the Braves have been doing.

all winter. So they get sale and like the money isn't even that bad, but the Red Sox get relief. And they give up Von Grisham, a pretty highly ranked prospect in the middle infield for the Red Sox. The money's kind of crazy. I don't know if I haven't fully, I've read it five times from six different people that have like tweeted it.

And I still haven't fully wrapped my head around it. So Trev looks like you have a handle on this. I believe for this. season, they're only paying Chris sale 500,000 because 10 is deferred money in the contract, and Boston picked up the other 17. Yep. So they're paying sale half a mill? Yes.

Yes. They still have to put that deferred money into escrow. We learned all of that with the Shoahe deal, but it's not necessarily accounted for in their payroll this year. It does, I believe, go against the CBT, but actual money paid is 500K. So. Less than league minimum, which. is interesting.

So basically what happened here, Vaughn Grisham turns 23 in two days. Happy early birthday, Vaughn. I think the Braves decided to move on from Von Grisham. We remember the whole shortstop saga last year. We kind of thought he was going to be next. Ron Washington, Dansby moves on. Vaughn Grisham, we saw him get a cup of tea,

and he was kind of awesome, and it was like, okay, the Braves have done it again. There's Michael Harris, too. Here's Vaughn Grisham. they just added another 10 years to their dynasty run. Orlando Arcea wins it, of course, with Braves' devil magic. He's awesome last year for them. And Von Grisham stayed at AAA.

Now, the part I found interesting, Von Grisham raked last year. Like, he killed it. So I know the defense has been a problem. Like everyone that you talk to in Bravesland is like, hey, he's not a short stop. Guess what? That's kind of okay.

The problem with the Braves is, At second base, they've got Asie Albies on one of the most team-friendly contracts to ever exist in this sport, and they locked up young thick Austin Riley for a decade. So those positions were blocked. And R.C. is making $2 million to play shortstoppers. They also have him on some weird deal. Right, but I think the Braves have made it clear that they didn't want Von Grisham to be a shortstop. I think they moved on from that thought process.

They were starting to have them play some left field. And then, you know, the Mariners wanted to get rid of Kelnick on a salary dump of very little. salary. So now left field's taken. So Vaughn Grisham was going to be a depth piece for them this year. And Brave fans, maybe you've been spoiled us. Yankee fans have not because the Braves players just play every day. I was surprised that they traded Von Grisham in this deal just because he had two more years of minor league options. So if Ozzy Albies gets hurt, which he did in 2022, like you have the perfect plug and play dude. But I think what they were looking at with this starting pitching market, which I think is going to lead to the conversation.

They said we can take a chance on Chris Sale, who's coming off injuries. Last year is the most innings pitch he's pitched in a little while now, like four or five years. And, you know, he's Chris Sayles still. Like, it's a gross arm slot. The stats, the ERA's not great last year, but he did pitch at Fenway Park. The strikeouts are still there. The Brave said they're kind of viewing this as Charlie Morton when they traded for him,

that they were like, hey, we, think we can tap into a little more with him. And if, you know, they're basically paying him nothing for this year. So the other side of it is, if you're the Braves, are they going to sign a Monty? And what kind of impact does he have? And you might have to commit 150, 175 mil. Blake Snell, instead, they're kind of taking all that risk out. They're saying, hey, we've got an asset in Von Grisham.

Let's move him to the Red Sox. And for the Red Sox, I think it's a massive win, too. Because I don't think Chris Sale was going to have a big impact on their potential season where Vaughn Grisham might be their second baseman for the next five years. So I love it for the socks. It's a little greedy by Atlanta, but it's also low risk financially. And if Chris Sale looks like Chris Sale, he's going to be mowing down Harper, Schwarber, Otani, and Freddie come October. So that's what they're going for. One thought you had to bounce off of you is that I think those numbers at AAA for Vaughan Grisham this year are so gaudy that there's,

thinking, hey, like his value is pretty good. Let's move on. Let's see what we can get for him. That's what I would conclude. But then I would think they would get more than Chris Sale. Who's going to be your fourth pitcher until he gets hurt? Like that's... Well, that's the 17 million getting kicked in, I think.

That's what teams are doing now. They're paying, you know, they're saying, hey, we want a bigger prospect. So we'll give you 17 million of the contract to get this guy. I understand that, but if you're shopping Von Grisham around and your agenda is to get talent for the 20-24 season, I feel like you could get more than sale right now, who, I mean, if you talk to Red Sox fans, they're like, he's just going to get hurt. Yeah. He hasn't been Chris Sale since 2019.

I don't know. That's the last time I remember being like, oh, shit, sales pitching. And Thopoulos had a quote saying this is the first normal offseason that sales going to have in quite some time. So maybe they're banking on that. I do like that. Because players say that all the time. Yeah. And what Jake said is completely true. I mean, they Braves have to face some diabolical lefties. And like it's nice to have a guy like Chris Sayah, who I talked about this on baseball today. He's just different, dude. Like the way he throws is different than anybody else in the big league. That's why he has the highest strikeouts per nine

for any starter in the history of baseball. Like he is an absolute menace. If you're up there, like, you guys remember the, you see it all the time on social media, the John Kruk, Randy Johnson, like turns around and hits right hand in the All-Star game. Like, that's what it's like for lefties against sale. Like, they want no part of it. And they can say they do, oh, it's great. If Sayle's on and throwing the ball where he wants to throw the ball and his arm is live, like it's just a very, very difficult to bat.

So I do think I like to trade better for the Red Sox. I think Von Grissom has a chance. to be, like you said, an everyday middle infielder at league minimum and then into arbitration you have all these years of control. And oh, just because he's not a shortstop, guess what? Every other player in baseball is a failed shortstop.

That's just the facts, people. Everybody plays shortstop until they can't anymore. So just because he made it to the league as a shortstop and it didn't work out or almost, I guess, made it until league as a shortstop didn't work out, it doesn't mean he can't be sufficient at second base or third base or an outfit.

Like, he's an athlete. I have a question. He's going to find a place defensively. To all our, okay, I won't phrase it that way. If you're playing rookie ball and you're at second, is your path, is that usually you're not a first round pick? Is your path kind of just like tough? Because you're right, majority of the time

it's centerfield or shortstop catchers that are like, you won't stay at that position, but that's how you're going to, that's where the best athletes are. I think it just depends Maybe you don't have the right arm strength To play on the left side of the diamond But you're still able to field the ball And make all the routine play so you can be at second

I think it's case by case But I think if you're a shortstop You will have more opportunities to move other places And in fact they tell you that from the get-go And it's so hard to hear that as a player When you get drafted You know, good coaches Will call you aside and say hey man

Like look I know you're a shortstop right now But the chances are you're going to be playing a different position at the big league level. They told me that so many different times. And I was a short step my entire minor league career. And then it happened. I mean, that's just, it's the truth. I went to the one guy who I would have bet money,

was a short, was a second baseman this whole career. And it is correct. Altovae. There's no way you're putting him at. He played a little short. His rookie year, freshman rookie year, 51 games, all at second base. And he played in the big league?

The first time he played shortstop on this was, looks like a winner ball for the Venezuelan League for one game. And then one game in the majors in 2016, he didn't start. And okay, in 2018 he started 130. No, no, that's second base. I don't know. My favorite. No, he's never started a game at shortstop.

A little good minor league bobblehead out there that has some, John Boy Media Connections. The Myrtle Beach Pelicans, they gave out a bobblehead one year of their middle infield. It was shortstop, Glaver Torres, and it was second baseman in Hap. Love that. Happer used to move a lot before he kind of landed in the outfield.

Gold glove, whoops. I think baseball's evolved into a little bit, can you hit, and we'll find that position for you. And Von Grisham can hit. That's the thing that's blown my mind. And he's, like, at first, when I opened Von Grisham's page, I almost expect him to be like 25 because it's like, okay, yeah, he got called up young, and then we did the whole thing last year.

Was he going to be their shortstop? And he wasn't. He's turning 23 in a couple days. Like, that's your team's prospect you're excited about who's in double A, they might be 23. So the fact that it's a double-edged sword. The fact that he's in this organization that has seen so much talent come through and is, like, I don't want to say created talent, but they're clearly know what they're doing over there.

The fact that they're willing to move on Von Grisham, that raises a little bit of a yellow flag because you're like, hey, you know, they did have the two years of control. But I think the overlying thing is they think they can tap in a sale because they believe in their organization that way. And I think they're scared to either pay the price

in the trade market for the other starting pitchers or pay the price and for agency for the other starting pitchers. I do a little bit of Boston fan fiction. right now? Yes. Just quick. BFF.

Early before spring training really starts down there in Fort Myers, Florida. Trevor Story's like, you know what, this is my year. I'm going to get everyone back on my team. I'm a guy. I'm going to be the starting shortstop. This is going to be great. In walks in Von Grissom. Hey, man.

Things haven't been great for me lately either. Spent the whole year in AAA. Thought I was going to get the starting job. Didn't get it. kind of have a chip on my shoulder. Do you want to be friends and work our ass off and be the best middle infield combo in all the big leagues? Sure, Vaughn, let's go start working together.

Can you imagine those two guys? Just pure athletes, you know, bouncing off of each other, like having that chip on their shoulder. I think, I think it has potential to be one of the more fun middle infield combos in the big leagues. Okay. Like the vet that has to prove something again. The young guy that was like shit, man,

like there was too much media talk before the seat and I didn't even get the job. Now I feel like I'm in a weird spot. Like those two getting together and just saying, part of my French, fuck the rest of the world, it's on us. Like, I love that. I love that storyline, man.

It feels like a Boston storyline to me. I'm excited for him. Hope it happens. I'm excited for when we get to the playoffs and snail's not snail. That's a mixture of Blake's now and Chrisale. I was talking about just about sale when sales not in the rotation for the playoffs, but they bring him out for that first time through the lefties of the team he's facing.

And it's like, you know, Randy Johnson in a little big league. It's kind of gross. Running out, dug out, whole stadium is like, I like that. That'll be fun. You see that as his path there? Do you think it'll eventually come down to the postseason like that? Well, keep them healthy for the postseason. You really only need three starters in the postseason.

he would have to like be really healthy and work his way up to those top three, which he can or they can keep him as a secret weapon because you have that lefty where you can drop them right for a lane of lefties. That's going to be nasty. I mean, Bryce Harper, Big Spot versus Chris Sale in the playoffs. That's good versus evil on the line. And it depends which side you're looking at. Yeah, it's tough. I don't know. I don't know. That's Bryce Harper as like the kind of Hans Solo. Like he was, he's mixed up in some bad stuff in his early days And he was kind of merchant for hire But at the end of the day he's a good guy in sale

Like Sounds the condor Dale did throw me out of limousine once Don't forget that, okay? Still kind of on my shit list for that We won't forget that Yeah, I don't think we should forget that I think the other part that's interesting about this

Let's say the Braves are the Braves And they do tap into Chris Sale And he has a nice, you know, 140 inning year with, you know, some good playoff outings they're going to pick up his option too. It's 27.5, which for one year and when it's a team? Club option. Wow.

Or excuse me, 20 million. So if Chris Sale is good this year, whatever that number means to you, they'll pick up that option. Because 20 mil for a starting pitcher is almost nothing now, it turns out. Which almost leads us to Lucas Gioito. Whoa. Yeah. you're not ready to go to Lucas

you don't want to talk about it? I am ready but you said it means nothing and then you said Lucas's name right after that I don't like that we were just talking about the Red Sox and that's the team he signed with you probably didn't know that because you were like Rosie what are you talking about

that's not true at all I've been talking to Lucas Giav okay then tell us about it Trev I didn't know at first that he has it's a player option it's an opt-out essentially for the second year So that made it a lot better for me as far as for Lucas. The two-year deal thing, you know, talking to guys,

I always want to have more years, more guaranteed money attached. But like for him and even for like Flaherty, obviously these are two guys I'm very close with. I wanted them coming off a horrible platform year to have some sort of one-year deal. When I found out the opt-out was there, I was excited for him. I think there are some things with Lucas that you can point to and be happy with if you're a Red Sox fan. I think the fact that he's made adjustments at the big league level

and seen better statistics because of it, he's coachable or he's willing to make adjustments. Horrible a year with the homers last year. I think one point that I want to make is that he was pretty dang good with the white socks and then he gets traded twice. And now I'm not making excuses for him because, you know, people, that's what happens.

You know, sometimes you get traded. you're on a new team. But getting traded during the middle of the season, it's very hard to get comfortable or like back into your routine. If you sign with a new team, that's why I think it's different signing with the Red Sox. He's going to have a full spring training to get to know everybody. He's going to have a full spring training to throw to the catchers, to learn, you know, how they go about their business and pitchers meetings and how he's going to line up, you know, how they're going to approach things, you know, statistically and analytically. Like it means something to have those, six weeks to get ready.

So I think if you look at his numbers with the Angels, if you look at his numbers with the Guardians, I mean, I don't want to make excuses. You still have to pitch, but it's not easy to feel like yourself when you get traded. You feel like you're just in a completely new environment, which you are, and it's difficult to get back into your solid routine. So I think that that's one plus or a difference of him going to a new organization

is that spring training. factor, but I think the homers will, he is a flyball pitcher, but I think last year will probably be his worst homers per nine that he'll have in his career, some sort of an anomaly, at least I hope, and I think Red Sox fans are hoping for that as well. But he's an innings eater, man, he's going to go do that for him. And I think it's, that's not fair to, I think it has a negative connotation to it when you say innings either. I don't think that's all that he has in the tank. I think he can be, I think it'd be still a top of the rotation starter. if everything lines up he's still young enough he's still hungry enough like this isn't

satiating enough for him he wants more money he he he's at that point it's like do or or don't do and when you put a guy in that situation i think he's going to work his ass off things are going to go well for me he seems like a boston guy to me can i i i hear you on all that whoa they just started drilling uh in the office right next door to us very loudly i hear you're on all of that. And I know he had a lot of shit going on last year, which you can point at to say that's not the norm. That's not that's going to return. I still think the number is surprising. No? I still think it's higher than like we're used to for a, you know, with the option, it's, it still is like a one year for 19, I think. If he does, if he declines the option.

Yeah. I don't know. It feels like two years ago we were at like, 10 to 15 well guys are guys are getting that like Gibson and Lynn got what like 13 and 14 and clarity got 14 I think as well I think Gileto's track record is just a little bit better demanded a little bit more

I guess so happy for him if I told you you could have Gialito Lynn or Gibby next year and all the price tags were the same who would you take that's a good question Gibby or Gileito. I like Ghibie for Clubhouse stuff a ton,

so it depends what you need rotation-wise. I think what Trev was trying to allude to is that Gialito has a chance to pop. Like, this guy is in his prime. He's 29 years old. He has some big boy seasons in there. I think, like you mentioned, Trev, when he ends up with the Angels in Cleveland last year, as Cleveland's literally just looking for a Chad innings eater to finish their season,

You take out those stats. 21 starts at 3-7-9 last year. He's pitching pretty well. The other thing, the White Sox were one of the most just dysfunctional teams in baseball the past couple years. So, like, let's start over. Like Jimmy said, he had some off-the-field stuff going on. Let's come to Boston. Like, Boston's going to believe that they're going.

That city believes in their baseball team until they don't. So early on, if they get some juice going on and Lucas Giolyto's shoving, that's going to be good. And like you said, Trev, the opt-out's huge. You know, if he has one good year with Lucas Gialito can easily, he goes back on the market and he's going to get nine figures. So innings eater, it's funny, it's a double-edged sword because you're right. There's a connotation there that like, oh, well, so, okay, come playoff time, maybe we don't need you.

That's not necessarily Lucas Gialito, but I love this fact that I think Dahl dug up, that he's one of six pitchers to throw at least 160 innings. in each of the past five full seasons. So obviously 2020 throws a wrench in that, but it's Garrett Cole, Aaron Nola, those guys got paid pretty well. Charlie Morton, Burrios, he got paid pretty well. Gibby, who we just mentioned,

and Lucas Gialito. Fucking Gibby. If you're, he ends up on every list. If you're the Red Sox, who you needed innings, like going back to last year's TPPs and looking at their starting pitchers, we said, hey, there's a lot of injury risk here, where are you going to get your innings?

they're going to get innings from Gioledo. It's just, it's scary. A year after he gave up 41 homers, your home stadium's now going to be Fenway. But the other thing that I like on that, I say this with baseball guys, if there's one thing you've got to work on, like Lucas Gialito's offseason plan,

how do I give up less homers? So I'd assume he's in the lab working on that. And I think the other thing that you can spend pretty optimistically on that is the other years, even Lucas Gialito's good season, he gave up homers. Like, it, it's not like he went from being this crazy sinker ball guy

that just got lit up one year and what's going on. Like, if he can get those homers down just a little bit, he can be back to, you know, if he's that 379 White Sox Lucas Giulio, you know, like we're talking about with starting pitchers, if he hits the market at that price again, he's going to clean up next year. I do wonder what the fuck happened when he went to Cleveland.

Trev, can you ask them? I mean, he gave up 11 homers in those six games. Ten with the Angels. His numbers are eerily identical with the Angels in Cleveland as far as homers and ERA. The pitch mix is wildly different. So when he went to Cleveland, he like scrapped the slider. Maybe it was a feel thing.

And he went change up heavy and like the change up. Did pretty well besides giving up homers. Like it had a 182 batting average, but a 455 slug. The fastball got absolutely rocked because it was only fastball change up. I'm interested. I mean, for a guy to go to three teams and work with new pitching coach for the first time, you know, how much he was like, all right, I'll try whatever you're saying. That's my curiosity.

Did the pitching coach say, hey, man, your Lucas Gialito go out there and throw for six games? Or are they saying, do this, this, this, and this? My guess is the Angels didn't give them much advice because they aren't known to build up pitchers. And his pitch makes it change that much. And then when the Guardians got him, either he felt terrible about a slider or the Guardian said,

we think you should do this and he tried it. And I do think it's tough for players that, I mean, his pitching coach in Chicago was his high school pitching coach. So he was getting like kind of brand new ears in this like dropping, hey, you're here for five games, go fucking do this. And I'm just interested to see if he was like, no, I'm going to do what I want to do. Or he was just, I'll try it. And now he's going talking to these free agents and talking to the Red Sox.

I'm like, well, I don't want to sign with you if you're going to do what the Guardians may me do. I fucking hated it. And like, I just would love to hear his perspective, which your buddies with him, Rose, buddies with him. I'm interested. I will ask, but that's definitely something that I could see happening. These teams, these pitching coaches, these analytical departments, you know, a lot of times they think they have like their finger on the pulse of what's you need to do.

Or I'm reading your stats and your data and we believe this is the best way to, you know, outperform. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And, you know, if he went and just can the, you said he can the slider and was just fast change up. I mean, change up's a very, I mean, that's kind of why right handers don't throw right, right change us because it is a home or prone pitch. especially don't locate it high in the zone and he likes to throw high.

Yeah, he likes to throw high in his own. It's crazy. So I think that'll be something he works on pitch mix. I think there's an arm slot issue with him. You know, before the major mechanical thing that he cleaned up

early in his career was his arm action. He used to drop it down here, way down low, bring it way back up. And then he got his high school pitching coach, Katz, and brought it real close here and back. So a little less, I guess it's less tension on the shoulder,

gets you in a better arm position. Once he did that, his number started to skyrocket from the nationals to the white socks. So, yeah, I mean, look, he's, I'll say this about Lucas. He's willing to make adjustments. If Boston can tap into the best traits of him, I mean, I know 20, 19, I guess, it ends up being fully guaranteed is a big number, but it is kind of what pitching is going for, man, especially if you're doing the one-year deal thing.

It's crazy. You're going to give a little bit higher A-AV just because it mitigates the risk for the team. Just don't pitch him on the Boston Marathon Day. I mean, the Red Sox know that. He doesn't like pitching out 11 a.m. Remember he went like 0.2, 9-urn runs. He didn't like it.

Okay, yeah. Let's skip that one. Yeah. Just, you know. Call up a fucking rookie and have him pitch that day, Red Sox. Just here, just take it over. Yeah. That Bayo pitch.

He's an ace. The Yankees had Sevy. do that twice last year. As he came up from the minors, his first two games were like 11 a.m. starts and he was, and several was just like, this sucks. Dude, if you're a pitcher, go pitch on those days. No, you think the hitters are like ready to go? They're not. They're not. Oh, well, pitchers are way more like creatures of habit and routine than batters. They're so, uh, small-brained. That was for you. That was for Treve. That was for Treve. That was for Treve. Did I send that to your? Yeah. I was like, what would you?

Trev want me to say here. Yeah, I don't know. They're not small brain. In fact, I think sometimes their brain's getting away. Yeah. I think I'm kind of team Trev there, though. Like, I was on the pitchers like, oh, that does suck. Like, you got a starting pitcher. I don't want to be 1105 in the batters box, and here comes 97.

Like, screw that. Yeah, but it's only 92 because I'm so tired. I haven't even had my Aigs Tyrone yet, you know? What? That. What are we moving on to? That hat? Oh, Mitch.

Trev, this is your guy, Mitch Garver, Twins legend, and World Series legend. He gets a bag, two years, 38 and a half million, Trev. I know you sometimes laugh when you think of your old teammates and what they're up to. Gibby before, as one of the best pitchers in baseball, still just getting paid and laid. Mitch Garver, who's got some really interesting hitting stats

the past couple seasons, you got to butter knife them because there's a lot of injuries involved and he might not be catching maybe at all because the Mariners also have Cal Rally back there. But I think the Mariners are taking a bet on Mitch Garver being their third catcher slash everyday DH and if he hits like he has the past couple years, that's what they're going for. And I was like, this is DePoto's first multi-year free agent contract for a hitter and Mitch

Garver's their guy. So, Trev, you know him the best. I kind of gave my whole piece. technically not a former teammate because they cut me loose before he made his debut of Minnesota. I am familiar with Mitch and I do, he did cam on sequence with me and we talked about his swing. I think that was after he went completely off in 2019. Go check the numbers out. Almost one dotted it.

This is what I think is happening. I don't think he's going to be catching anymore. He might throw the gear on a couple times at a necessity. But yes, I think what they're betting on is if you look at his numbers, he really hasn't had a full season of the bats ever. You know, when you're a catcher, that happens a lot. But most of bats he's ever had in a season were 359. 359 played appearances.

That was in 2019. I think they're betting on Mitch Garver. He's a very heady hitter, very detail-oriented, you know, very mechanically driven, understands the process of the swing and, you know, biomechanics and all that stuff. He's a student of the game, which I love. Because I think if you know your body and, know how it's supposed to move. I think you can make a job

and it's better. I think your slumps are less prolonged and you're able to get back to your base. So, in saying that, I think they're just banking on him like, hey, we're going to give you 500 plate appearances and you're probably going to hit us 30 homers. You're, you know,

you're probably going to give us, you know, a 350 OBP. You're going to slug a little bit. Like, I think they're banking on him getting better as a hitter if he doesn't have to necessarily worry about catching all the time and he's getting just consistent A-Bs. But the guy has it in him

to be a guy. I thought the Mariners were going to go out and get J.D. Martinez and plug him in as their D.H. But I think Mitch Garver can produce similar results at this point in their careers. I think he's younger than J.D., obviously, and he's got

a good enough track record to show that he can be a sufficient D.H. I think he can do it. I really think that if he give him 500 plate appearances. He's going to approach the 30 home runs. He's going to give you professional of bats. I think he's going to be great for the clubhouse as well. Like, not another hitting coach. I don't think

they necessarily need that. But when you have guys like that, like in the locker room, around the cage, it's just we say it all the time and people don't believe it, but it just helps out a lot throughout the season, man. A fucking hitting coach, there's usually two now per team. It's a lot of people to talk to and to take care of.

If you have a guy that understands the process the way he does, it's just that's not the reason they gave him all that money. The reason is they want him to perform on the field, but it's a nice bonus to have. I think Mitch is going to thrive there in Seattle. Well, it fits their profile a little bit. I mean, he's above league average in strikeouts at like 25%.

And they've been trading guys away, and they said they want to cut out all the strikeouts. But he's got an 11% walk rate, which put him, I think, second on the team, the Mariners last year. I think he's 98th percent in chase rate. So they're trying to change their dynamic to less strikeouts. That's why they moved on from Kellnick and Suarez and Teoscar. Those are the top three.

They were all 30% strikeout percentage. I think Mitch was 20-something last year, 25, which is still above league average. But I'm trying to figure out the money. How much did Suarez was he owed in Kellanick? because then was it was it about dumping their salary at all or was it or they really fixated on hey we got to cut down on strikeouts

we'll pay that money to a player but we don't want to pay for strikeouts Suarez 11 mil this year 15 mil team option Kellnick was I think he's still like Arb pre-arb so he wasn't they were getting off Evan White and Marco Gonzalez Evan White and Marco Gonzalez

yes yes because you know this is a decent amount of money for a team that was shedding payroll. But I think they're trying to replace payroll. And they said, no more strikeouts. So Mitch better be ready not to strike out. Was it 19.25? Is that the math? That's a big number for a guy that doesn't have a lot of games played.

I think, Treve, I liked where you started. Let's see where J.D. Martinez's his contract lands because that's a guy with, you know, a much more proven record as a DH on a team, that if the numbers come out similar, I think you'd kind of be like, hey, Mariners, like, I don't know. But they might not,

because I don't know, with the money getting thrown around, maybe JD gets closer to 25-ish, I don't know. I think they approach the game similarly as far as, you know, JD's known as one of the old-school, like, not old-school, like one of the first hitting revolution type of guys.

And we talk about Josh Donaldson with it, and J.D. Martinez was one of the guys that were completely revamped this swing and can change his entire career. Also a very heady hitter. So I think they're... I actually think they're very similar. Obviously, JD's track record

is much better as a hitter. Justin Turner? Yeah, Justin Turner. I think age played a factor into it. Always does. Those are the three. I read that book. Shout out Jared Diamond,

Swing Kings. I never really read that book. But I'm sure I would like it. I read it. I enjoyed it. Well, there's a bit... Hitting Twitter is just in a... a funk right now.

There's a couple guys just fighting all the time. I've actually left my post as hitting Twitter officinado. Well, it's a bunch of guys fighting because Teacher Man 98 has taken the fucking throne with all his recent success. And now everyone else is dead and buried. Rise, Teacher Man.

Chris Colabello and Teacher Man are going at it. Always. Teacher Man is a troll that also a very successful hitting coach. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah. He's got Joe. Judge Rizzo. Happ.

You teach someone one time. You can, they go to him. Judge calls him, Judge has a private session whenever two weeks. Wherever city, judges in,

he rents a batting cage, flies Teacher Man 98 out and does a private lesson. Judge, I'll, whatever you're paying him, I'll do it for free. I'll teach you just as well.

Dude, you can't. You can't teach this. I can. I can't. I fucking can. Aaron, Judge? Fucking snap. I mean, talk about the greatest people to ever have.

Well, you're seen his swing in 2016? I would have cleaned it up too. I don't know. You know, it's all about those key words and you wouldn't have been saying those words. Snap. You're right. I would never have said that. I think his name is like Robert Schneck or something like that.

No, I have no problem with him. Like, look, this is the thing about. His story is awesome. They all do it differently. He's kind of a jerk online. That's like his reputation. He even says it. But if no one knows, read swing.

Kings. His story is awesome. It was an old man in his sweatpants. I read this, yeah. Who just was obsessed with hitting and would watch tapes over and over again and had no clients. And then there was like thought. He's like, I think I see something. And then he just called up every player like, hey, this is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. That's my favorite hitting coach social media party trick is showing a video and then just doing if you know, you know. It's like, okay, bro. Oh, boy. Okay. What did you see? The guy, Ben Skoyick, or the original one, Tewsbury, these are all the names. Wallenbrock. Wallenbrock was the same thing.

He would set up the book's cool. Go read it. Yeah. Oh, me and Craig go way back. Okay. I like that. Next up, the Blue Jays did some stuff. They bring Keirmeyer back.

They got him on a one year, $10 million deal. I thought he was going to get like two years 20 or a two-year. deal. I know he's getting older, but he's still like a gold glove level center fielder. So I was a little surprised. It's only one year. And then they also got Isaiah Kiner Folefa, not familiar. Two years 15 mil with one million incentives. Trev? I love it. I actually, so, okay, love both the players. I'm so curious about like the Blue Jays thought process and all of this.

I know they won the team Glove Award. They were excellent defensively last year. But when I really think about the Blue Jays, I'm like, these days break. Is it your first thought process with the Blue Jays? Am I just, am I totally wrong about that?

Like, the fact that they have gone, like, kind of like, I don't want to say defense first, but it's definitely obviously on their mind. It's kind of strange to me. I like it. I mean, let's try to be good. Hey, here's a thought process for every team. Let's try to be good defensively, offensively, and have a good

pitching stuff. We should just try to do those things all time. Let's not say we're going to bang and not play defense, although the Phillies did that, and that kind of worked out for them. I don't know, I like it. I'm reading this article on fan grass, and we know how good Kevin Kiramire is, but I want to read this section here.

Kiermire is the greatest center fielder of the modern statistical era. No other outfielder comes within 10 points of him. neither DRS or outs above average. His defense makes a convincing argument that players should earn bonus points for impossible catches and spectacular throws.

And if you really haven't watched Kiermeyer play, like on an everyday basis, you might not, you might think that's stupid or ridiculous, but like if you do watch him play, and I didn't have, I had respect for him before I was his teammate because I saw him make great catches. But when I was a teammate and did get to see him play every day,

it is shocking. like the balls that he gets to I couldn't fathom anybody else get to I don't know if it's the brakes I don't know if he just has the quickest first step his routes are perfect he is he's a fucking menace out there and I kind of love

the Blue Jays for saying you know we we have these guys that are going to rake but like playing defense too I don't know I felt the Blue Jays should be so much better as a baseball team I feel like they've underperformed and it's now starting to piss me off so I'm thinking about it Running hot, Trev.

Yeah, the Keirmeyer side of this, I'm a little surprised it was one year 10 and a half. Like if you go around the value a center fielder can provide with just his defense alone kind of lands him close to that number. And he hit a little bit last year, 741 OPS, KK, you know, he's seen a lot of baseball. I think sometimes he, you know, he can cheat on a pitch and he gets there. But, hey, apparently he liked it there, and he signs one year, 10 and a half. they had like an all-time historic defensive outfield last year between him and Varsho, and it's fun to watch, man.

I mean, try to put a ball between those two. And never mind, George Springer, who pretty damn good himself, getting up there in years a little bit. And yeah, Treve, I don't know, the Blue Jays are in a funky spot, because that top of that lineup still kind of feels like what we thought the Blue Jays were. Springer, Bichette, Vladdy, boom. Right now, after that, Danny Jansen, Kevin Bissio, Davis Schneider, Dalton, Varsho, Alejandro Kirk, and Kevin Kiermeyer. Some good ball players there, but there's not a lot of, like, hey, pencil this guy in for 20 homers. So the Blue Jays lineup, and let's see where they're at in their

offseason, because they still, you know, they're supposedly in an Otani. They've lost Matt Chapman, Brandon Belt. Like, I think the Blue Jays are still going to make more moves. That's where I'm a little surprised by the ICF move. And, hey, let's be honest, there's some Yankees history here. The guy is everything you want. Off the, the field and personality-wise in the clubhouse. He hustles. He'll play any position. He took it on the chin when he had to on New York. And he had his moments. Like, I'll be honest. And I guess what I'm intrigued by, and this is coming from a lot of Blue Jays fans, like they have Santiago Espinole, who's kind of a bench, a util type role player for them, who's still, you know, pre-R,

arbitration under control, kind of a similar skill set. So a lot of Blue Jays fans were like, hey, what's going on here. I guess the only thing where I'm raising kind of a yellow flag on this, we've always wondered. We've thought this Blue Jays team was going to have to make a decision on Bichette and Guerrero. I'm wondering if this could give them some flexibility if they wanted to move Bichette. Because IKF can be a stopgap shortstop. I've heard that before. that if maybe they're going to move on from Bichette, if they're going to pick between Vlady and Bichet to give a big extension to,

and maybe they could get a ton of value for Bichet and get some different assets, maybe IKF can be their backup plan at shortstop, because with Espinall, with Cavan Bigio, with Davis Schneider, at your corner infield spots, like you have very similar talented baseball players, that adding ICF to that mix for two years 15, I don't know.

I guess I was surprised by the number, and maybe there's something else I'm missing. Schneider had a big year offensary last year. I mean, not a lot of play appearances, but I think they're counting on him to be in that lineup every day. I don't know, man. I don't know if that means you're kind of reaching there with the Bichette thing and the stopgap.

I don't. Explain the two years 15 mill to me, Trev. he's a guy that can spell any one of your players defensively at any position so you know it's a guy that you like to have on your team so you can make those you know get those off days or just plug and play if someone does get hurt anybody can get hurt he can go play i think it's valuable to have those guys espinald can't play the outfield right ambigioly i don't know what you got with that i kf couldn't play the outfield until last year when he did they stuck him out there and he wasn't good um also he's not good at short or second he can play he he does he can play anywhere on any given day

I think it's it's valuable to have that for I mean sure I think the other guys I think he says yes to playing anywhere there's maybe the better way to say it because a lot of players he's service he's serviceable anywhere and you can't say that about it's not you can't say that about every player man no you can't he's really bad offensively so you know the article says they're going to play him in the tune roll to get every day at bats. That's crazy to me. He just hasn't shown to be a plus. He's always 20 points lower than average.

And it doesn't have a skill set offensively. I mean, his skill set is he can foul off two strike pitches sometimes. So. If they love this defensive approach, then he's a guy that fits perfectly for them. If that's kind of like where their head is at. But they just had so many bad outfielders and they went and re-did their outfit to get good outfielers that it makes sense to get. ICAF to play the outfield because he's not an outfielder.

He did it by necessity. He was right below serviceable, I think. But they had him in center field. The Yankees fucked around and screwed ICFs. Maybe he's a better player than the Yankees made him out to be. Maybe. Maybe. They definitely didn't help him out by putting him at short for a full year and not

helping him when he asked for help. I want to go back to Kiermire, though. I didn't get a chance to respond to some of that stuff, which was. interesting because you know I like jump and route and reaction and also I feel lucky that we got to watch Keirmeyer and Nail Easter song because he's so good and he used to piss me off with all his hot dog eye wash stuff but it's so good that that's probably why it hurt like if a ball goes over the fence by 20 feet he acts like he's going to rob it and I was like come on dude get off that it's not eye wash well that is he believes until the last second he really believes he that's one of the most confident guys well Well, I think he's really, I don't know what the numbers say, but he's good at coming in on the ball. Like, that's where I used to think he would rob the Yankees like crazy. Like, just him sliding in or diving headfirst forward.

But it's very interesting, Trev. You talked about his reaction, his route running, what he's good at. Earlier in his career, he was really fast with reaction, but bad with route running, which, which you can still be a top outfieler by doing that. Mookie, not Mookie. Jackie Bradley Jr. was like this. He was like just fast as shit,

but his routes were not good, but still top outfielder, where Trout, slowest reaction in the league, but the most efficient route runner. As Keirmeyer has aged, his reaction has gone down and his route efficiency has gone up,

and his burst in the middle is back up. So like once he like starts his, finds his lane, he's now last year had the second fastest, like sprint to the, the spot that he's had in his career. I love that. Yeah. I mean, he looked healthy when I saw him last year. I think I mentioned to you. I saw like his legs just looked phenomenal. Maybe that's part of it. He had the best like feet for like

average feet covered last year. There was like a time where him and Adam Jones were kind of going back and forth about like the gold glove. And I forget who was what. One of them played in and the other one played back. I believe Jones. Jones played very shallow and Keirmeyer played very far back. And if you're trying to prevent extra base hits, obviously you want to play back. I think Jones was on the side of, hey, I'm trying to prevent all hits.

Yeah, Keirmeier definitely plays back. That's why I said I remember him coming in so much. And looking at the data, he barely has any outs above average going back because I don't think he ever really goes back and he's got a ton outs above average coming in. And that's early raised defensive. shift stuff that they were the first team to like guard the wall.

Yeah. And Jones was playing centerfield when you had old school pitchers still around that were like over your head's my fault. That's, that's exactly what I say. Hey, man, it hit the ball over your head, they deserve that double. I'm like, whoa, feel me just try to defend it anyway. Yeah. That's funny. So that's, go, KK go, man. He's, he is one of the most confident people I have ever met in my life. And I was interesting. I love being around it. I was interested having him on the Yankees this year. They went and got a bunch of other outfits.

So I'm happy with what they did in the outfield. But yeah, I like watching Kiermire play. I've come to enjoy even the eyewash stuff. And he spins the glove. Yeah. He does a lot of stuff. If you're the best of a generation, you bet, I mean, that's kind of. Remember the interview where he called him my outfielders?

Got a lot of shit. He called off, was it Margot? someone he like ran in front and I caught it in front of him and then they asked him about afterwards and he was like well I tell my outfielders like you got to listen and it was people were like what that's Kevin Cash letting him do whatever the fuck he wants do yeah love that uh was there one more Frankie Montas got a ton of money 14 mil uh men old pitching maybe we we just parlay it till next step who suck go Padre

Andre He got a couple relievers. Frankie gets his deal to kind of be the next sunny gray out of New York into Cincinnati, revive the career. I dig the storyline. I'm happy for that. Wow. Yuki Matsui, 58-167? Yep.

Oh, my goodness. That's awesome. Well, good job. Great job, Dan. Hey, Johnny DeLuca. Congratulations. You're a ray. Oh, my God.

And I hung out with you on New Year's Eve. So shout out. Do you guys kiss at midnight? Me and Olivia kissed at midnight. A nice one. Oh. Anyone watching? I don't know.

Johnny probably was. Johnny. Yeah. Okay. See you later. Goodbye. Next up. Rule changes.

And anything else that happens. Start letting people know it's coming. When is our next step? As soon as chairman signs. Thank you.