Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Cody Bellinger TRADED To The New York Yankees | 936

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use promo code TALKIN Grab Your Mountain Dew today: https://lets.shop/2141/dothedew/ Go to kushydreams.com and use Promo Code JOMBOYTHC at checkout to get 30% off your next order! Cody Bellinger is a New York Yankee! Trev and Jake break down the trade, what it means to the Yankees to get Bellinger, How the Cubs look now after adding Cody Poteet, should the Cubs get Alex Bregman, what the Orioles are doing signing Tomoyuki Sugano, Jeff Passan's article on pitching injuries and more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball, presenting you by Seat Geek, Code Talking 10. My name, Jake Storelli. That is Trevor Plouf. Rob Seraco producing as we leak towards the new year. It's December 18th. We were going through how many regular season Eps we got left. It's scary, coach. And I'm sure we're going to have some breaking news and stuff along the way.

But we're in holiday season mode. I'm mapping out trains to get back home. I'm lining up the local YMCA day pass to get my buckets up while I'm on the road. How are you doing, Treff? So many things. First of all, in disrespect to Craig Counsel, my goodness. He's at least top four in the NL Central. Today we decided to go outfit, like Halloween outfit.

We went with the F-boy Hollywood Loser look. I don't know how this happened. If you're watching or listening on the podcast version. We got hooded sweatshirts and the hat that every quote unquote F boy wears. But I like mine. Shout out Cooper Cup and Anna Cup. Wow. Yeah.

Supporting. Yeah, 2024 is out. 2025 is in. There's some good stuff to talk about today. I actually reached out to a good buddy of mine about this Jeff Passon slash MLB pitching injury article or research paper. and I had some good insight for him, so I'm excited to share that with the people, kind of Trevor's tidbits all over again.

That was just a great time in life when that was going on. It's time for Trevor's tidbits. We're back with that a little bit. But yeah, man, things are going good over here. Puppies still keep me up at night, so I don't look great. I look like a vampire kind of right now, but that's all right. Wow.

I've got some more questions about that. We might have to circle back to the end of the show. And Trev, I started laughing midway. And for everyone on the YouTube, watching us and our F-boy fits with the hoodies and the hats, that's a Cooper Cup hat. Yeah, this is his coffee brand. Because if you'll recall the hat I'm wearing is a Jake Cronin.

So we're losers. We support our guys, okay? We support our guy guys. You're right. You're right. We're right or die, bro. We're not losers. My Yankees aren't losers as of now.

They made the Cody Bellinger trade that was rumored, and it almost hit the point of it was so rumored that it was like, is this going to go down? So we can talk about that a little bit. The Orioles brought in a pitcher who might have a massive impact on next season. We want to talk about that. And like you said, Jeff Passon continues his, like, pilgrimage or thesis of trying to get to the bottom of this pitching problem.

And I don't know. I just had a moment of like glimmer for him that like clearly Brother Jeff cares about this so much that he's hoping to be part of the solution at this point, which is nice. Because like I, that's so optimistic or filled with dreams and hope that like I don't even have that anymore. Before we, I mean, yeah, getting into it, he basically is like it's a bottomless pit here. I think he started out with dreams and hopes and it's just like, I am. I got you. He's letting the darkness. He's like, I can't find the bottom.

He's letting the darkness kick in. And that's where I've kind of been on that whole topic. But it's obviously one of the biggest stories in the sports. And are we going to see the contending teams each year have 10 starting pitchers and which three make it to the final? Because we've kind of seen that. Texas Rangers and the Dodgers both had that. Trev, let's talk about America's team. Craig Counsel's Cubs and the New York Yankees.

Get the trade done. The Cody's. People aren't talking about that. Cody Potie for Cody Bellinger and some cash. And speaking of, it's all brought to you by the Draft King's Sportsbook. Grab your favorite team's jersey and some snacks. Head to the couch for another Sunday of Action Pack. football, man, I have been crushing the football Sundays.

And get even closer to the action each Sunday with our partners at the Draft King Sports book right now. All new customers who bet $5 will get $150 in bonus bets if your bet wins when you use code talking. And don't forget to stay in on the action and use $150 in bonus bets on Draft King's same game parlays for a shot at an even bigger payout. So download the Draft King Sports. We get out now and use code talking.

That's promo code talking. only at the Draft King's Sportsbook. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-8-Hopen Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-667-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-77-

or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issue. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash FT ball.

Coach Trev, the Yankees placed the belly bet, going from Kyle Tucker to Kyle Tucker to the Cubbies to Bellinger. And it's where is his value at with his current contract? And I mean, we essentially come to find out it's, I mean, this trade is a little bit of a salary dump. I mean, the Cubs are even throwing in $5 million for the next two potential seasons of Bellinger, 2 and a half, 2 and a half. And Cody Potit goes back. Cody Potit's pitching Major League games, but he's kind of been a quad A guy, call him up when you need a spot start or something like that.

But yeah, this had been rumored for a while. Cody Bellinger's dad played for the Yankee. I have a story about that I think is going to blow your mind. but the Yankees needed outfield, first base, and lefty, and they hit all the boxes. Yeah, I mean, this is, I guess we'll start with the Yankees side. Yeah, I think it's a great signing by the Yankees. I don't care what his value is relative to his contract. I don't think that should even really factor in right now with the Yankees.

They just need good players on the field, figure out the money stuff later. You're right. He checks all the boxes, and I think that's one reason why he is, desirable for even if you want to bring the money into it i think he's desirable for that contract because he offers you flexibility and now you're not locked into one move if he was just an outfielder just a left fielder or um you know even if he was a center fielder then okay you had to go get either a second baseman or a first baseman or a third base like he allows you to now pick from a bunch of different guys yeah if you want him at first base okay then you don't have to go after a first

basement. He can still go after a left fielder. He still offers that. You can put him in the outfield. I think the versatility of Cody Bellinger maybe is where the most value lies. We know he can play. His defense kind of took a hit in the outfield last year, but I think

he's very much a serviceable outfielder and especially if you put him in center and judge and right, like it's going to be a defensive upgrade for the New York Yankees. First base, I think he's got all the tools there big tall guy scooping the ball over there so i think in that regard i really really like it for the

yankees i think now it's what's next you know there's a bunch of different rumors about paul goldschmidt you know like i said there's still some outfielders out there if they want to go that route as well where do you plug jazz chisholm in i think that's why jazz chisholm was so enticing for yankee fans because hey we didn't know we could really play third base but last year like wasn't too bad but he can also play second base. And so, like, they have, I think that's where my mind goes now, is they have just a ton of options to continue to upgrade the team because I don't think they're done and they shouldn't be done.

I think there's still maybe at least one, possibly two moves on the offensive side of the ball that they need to make here. So the versatility of him and jazz Chisholm just kind of, it just opens up the board for them. Because, you know, there's only so many free agents out there, But now they can look other ways, you know, via trade. And it's just to me for the Yankees, it was, it was always a fit. And here we are.

Now he's on the team. Yeah. The flexibility is massive. And it's for the off season and when the season gets here. Sure. You know, you mentioned belly and center, judge and right, which that very well could be what happened. And let's see what goes on.

They have Jason Dominguez, the Martian, the big process. the big prospect. And I, for me, are we ever going to see him just play? Like, I just don't get it with that. I mean,

hey, he's, Jason Domingas is still 21. So like, I, I'm tough on how the Yankees handle some of their prospects. Like,

Domingas is still like a kid kid. So they, okay, they have time to get that right. Uh, I think what's interesting and it, it's, I don't know,

it's always like, this is a good baseball conversation. I, I think center field truly is easier to play than left field. Um, that, Jason Dominguez has played a lot more center field that, hey, if you're going to call this kid up and have him be a part of your future, and it's an expansive Yankees left field, do you surround him with belly and left and judge and right?

Because those are two pretty good insurance policies to each side. Or, you know, like you said, belly can play a really good center field and, hey, Dominguez, we want you to figure out left field for the next six years, so just go and do it. or do they keep Dominguez waiting, and you'll hear me get mad about how the Yankees handle prospects, because if another outfielder becomes available, the Yankees can push that button. And I think that is the best part of this move that,

hey, if Alex Bregman wants to be a Yankee and his market is around there, you can put him at third base. Jazz goes to second, and then if you want to bring in a veteran first basement, there's been Paul Goldschmidt rumors that, like, him and young Ben Rice who got a taste last year. That might be a good old man in the sea type deal. So this gives the Yankees their next move.

They have the flexibility to kind of get whatever fits the best and not risk their future years. You know, the Yankees were close to finishing a deal with Christian Walker we heard. And again, there's no shots fired at Christian Walker. But, you know, if he gets a three-year deal, that's going to take them to age 37 or so, that the Yankees leave themselves the chance for their next move to get the right fit for this team,

while the Chicago Cubs, now things get interesting for me, Coach Trev, because that's a lot of money coming off the book. Hey, I love that our guy Pete Crow Armstrong is going to get some looks and a chance to play. But now that Cubs line, like, It was kind of the funny thing of this Cody Bellinger, like, yeah, the Cubs want to move off Cody Bellinger. Well, he was in the heart of their lineup.

Like, you know, Cody Bellinger played really solid ball last year that the bottom of their lineup right now is listed as Nico Horner, who there was some trade rumors about him. Matt Shaw, who supposedly was supposed to be the Nico Horner replacement, but now he might be the third base replacement for Perrettes. And then Miguel Amaya, who, okay, you know, catcher is a catcher, catcher to a certain degree. But that bottom of the lineup gets a little thinner, and the meaty part of the lineup got a little less meaty that I wonder, what's next for our cubbies? And when we've wondered that, sometimes we've ended up in the bad place

because there hasn't been a next. But Trev, this is real money coming off the books. Well, they're going to do something. You don't bring Kyle Tucker over for a year and then say, all right, then let's subtract. Like, they're going to reallocate. the salary towards whatever they need. And they better.

If they don't, then if you're a Cubs fan, you just give them a fat, what is you doing, baby? So, yeah, I was on the train of them keeping belly. I was like, why do you want to, like, let's just keep all the good players that we can. If you have a log jam, we used to call that depth.

Like, that's okay to have, like, more than enough good players on our team, right? Nice. Bruce Bochee Trev coming out. Yeah. love that it's true though i don't know why teams are always trying to thread the needle we have to make sure this guy has playing time i'm like okay how about like you figure it out just have enough good players the dodgers do that all the time right we just talked about what they do with their pitching staff like they want as many good players as possible they'll figure the playing time

out okay like you can do that um but now how much do they save in a year 23 i think it should be around like 22, 23. Yeah. Okay. Then that you need to reallocate that to maybe a high leverage reliever and maybe bring in I don't know. There's a lot of talk about

what they're going to do with their infield. If they're going to bring up their prospect, if Bush is going to go to third base for a time. I hear Cubs fans say, no, he can't do that. So I'm interested to see what they end up doing there. But yeah, they have to reallocate that salary. If they do it, they do it right, then I'm okay with the move. But if they swing and miss on some of these free agents or they don't pull the trigger on a trade

and they just kind of have that money for maybe like a mid-season acquisition, then I don't really like it for them. I just, Colie Bellinger is a very good Major League baseball player. Like, I don't, I feel like people are undervaluing him a ton. Now, like, is he 2000, when did he win the MVP, 2018 or something like that? Yeah, I mean, it's, is he on that level?

No, but like he's still a very, very valuable, a three to four win player. Like, I don't know, man. Cubbies, you had me at Kyle Tucker. You lost me a little bit with this trade. Let me see what you do with the money. I guess that's kind of where I'm at. Right, because they,

maybe they didn't lose you with this trade, but you need to see the next step. Like the Yankees clearly have more work to do, and this was kind of like on their working list. It was get Soto. Okay, we missed on Soto. Let's get another stud. We got Max Fried.

All right, let's get belly. And now we need to supplement the lineup more. Maybe move our pitching around. We've talked about that. For the Cubbies, it truly is what's next because, God, they can, they have a very fun roster. They got a ton of starting pitching. They have pitching.

they have a ton of defense. Like, sure, some of these guys can hit, but man, when you look around and Ian Hap, Kyle Tucker, PCA, yo. Yum. Love that. Nico Horner, Dansby Swanson. Yum.

That, like, I wonder third base. And the other thing is, dude, they have prospects on the way. So there's a chance with these Cubs. Like, their guy Alcantara, he's a top prospect. I think he's another outfield guy. Matt Shaw is supposed to be

the way that like, I guess that is the interesting next piece for these cubbies because Treve, everything you're saying could be true. And like I, you know, they were a sneaky Corbyn Burns team for me. Like, wow, they would really enter the conversation if they did something like that. Now their lineup has a couple question marks that it's which direction do you go looking at that. But maybe, I mean, Trev, wouldn't it be a massive win if they kind of took that money and like figured out the Kyle Tucker extension with it. That should not factor into this year. Okay.

They need bullpen help. Okay, this, here's my, let's do a little, I want to see where your head's at. If they took this $25 million, right? And I think they're, I, when I'm reading out, there's still like $50 million under the first competitive balance tax. Sure. Let's just say they took that money and they signed two, they signed Tanner Scott and another high leverage reliever. I don't know who else is out there right now. Add a two like bullpen weapons

to their team. Right. You happy as a Cubs fan? Belly out two high leverage relievers? I think you are. Because I think that's that's kind of their biggest need as a Cubs fan is we need guys that can shut games down. They're really bad in that regard last year. Yeah, it's interesting because they're they're piecemealing that bullpen a little bit. There's a there's a lot of guys. that you're like, they could give me a season. I could see it happening. But you're right. It's not the fear factor.

Although I think Porter Hodge will be that guy. And kind of was that guy last year as the closer. But everyone else, they've kind of been, and they've done a solid job of bringing in guys and tapping into something. But yeah, for me, that would feel still just like a little short. Like, you know, the amount of money that you could do for a Tanner Scott. and I don't know, I'm trying to think who else is out there. Did Estevez sign?

But at the same time, when I do say that, you know, your Cubs do something that forms a team identity. Like if you get those two bullpen guys, it's like, okay, there's going to be certain days that the Cubs pitch us and defense us to death. Like, we're just not going to do anything today. So give me a little bit more of an identity. As the listeners of this program know, and as they're clicking the subscribe button on YouTube, thanks guys. Yeah, we appreciate that.

I would want to bring in at least another hitter of sorts, like pop. You know, I'm about that pop, pop, pop. You love to pop. That, you know, like, it's crazy that the, top of their lineup, their first four hitters listed for next year, our guy Hap, our guy King Tuck, your guy Seya, my guy Bush, they all hit over 20, but no one hit over 25. So again, it turns into one of those funky dynamics like, okay, if everyone's clicking cool, but also if everyone's not clicking, where are we going? And hey, like I mentioned, Kyle Tucker did that in

about half the games. So maybe that's just the answer. And, man, they could do some fun stuff. I wonder if they could be in on Bregman. I doubt that. Could they be, hey, we just, we just don't. Don't do that. I like that move a lot.

We just dumped belly. He would fit, I mean, Breggie would fit in with these guys. Yes. Yes. Hey, I've got one. This is, both fan bases are going to absolutely hate this. So let me put it out there.

the Jake special. Another guy that's been rumored as a salary dump, Nolan Aeronado, how much would the cards eat? And then it's like, hey, Nolan, you can hit fifth on this team. Our defense is silly. Our defense is silly, silly, silly.

I don't know. Like, I don't see the Cubs doing that at all, but they have it laid out in front of them and it's going to be interesting which young guys they lean into and then, hey, Matt Shaw, Alcantara, your guy Moises Ballesteros might get the call behind the dish this year. Which of those young guys are they going to lean into? But you are right with the Kyle Tucker trade.

Like, it was kind of the funny part of this ordeal. Okay, Cody Bellinger's out and you got someone who can come in, sure, but all right, that means we've got cash to spend this year. and that can be a couple impact pieces in the pen. That could be one impact hitter. That could be a massive pitcher that the Cubs, per usual, have us on the line. It's just what's the next step? I was going to say, first of all, I love Bregman there.

I was going to say, give me Shamaniah and Tanner Scott. Then I realize they have so many lefties that they just lean into it and say, screw it, we're just mess with people. Because Craig Counsel, what is he, a lefty? manager. Well, hit her. And he is the manager. I know I opened the joke with that,

NL Central. A, I forgot Tito went there. And everyone just because Tito's like the oldest bad dude on the block. Right. So, like, there was just an article where it was like Tito's the number, number one. Yeah, he's number one. You know, there's an argument there. He's got the rings.

He's Tito. Pat Murphy, number two. Pat Murphy. I mean, him and Craig teed it up last year and I don't know. Is Shelty still in Pittsburgh? I think, yeah. Yeah, we're waiting. Although he coached up,

Skeen's fantastic last year. I loved what he did. I loved what he did with Skeens last year. Here you go, son. Yeah, that was pretty good. And then your guy, Oli Marmall. So, okay, I think Craig's got an easy argument for top three.

I like Oli Marmall. Shout up, Eddie Woosh. You got a Cardinals podcast. Let's shout that out. Shout that out. Yeah. Different network than ours. That's fine. Saw AJ Prisinski with a silly Cardinals hat on. Who doesn't like that? Cardinals territory. We like Katie Wu. She's the best. So shout that out.

I love Katie Wu. Arizona State Sun Devils. Forks up. College football playoffs. That's going to be fun. No, you got to. Oh, it's a shock. Shocker. Well, hold on now. I think if you space them out. I don't know the rules. I don't know the rules. FSU seem like the same thing, but they're not. No. I've had this discussion a lot on this lately about FSU. Yeah, what's with you in Florida State? I don't know.

I think that's my experiences when I was, like, playing the Florida State League. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Florida State and Arizona State would say they're, like, collegiate cousins. Ooh, I don't think Florida State would like that. Really? I think they're, like, more uppity, no? Am I wrong about this? Yeah, I'm searching people.

I think Florida State wants Arizona State's party rep, I think. Oh, I think they have it. In Florida State, like, they've got national title rings, famous James. I'm just, guys, I'm a high school grad. Didn't go to college. Not to flex on you, me too. You don't have a college degree? Hey, I do have a college degree.

A science. But you're also a high school grader. Yes, I'm also in high school. Trev, before we, I want to talk Shugano and the Orioles a little bit. I want to talk these pitching injuries. Where do you think the Yankees go next? Because there's, it's Goldschmidt, partial rumors. There's Christian Walker.

There's Bregman. Is there one player that speaks more than another to you? Pete Alonzo? I would go first base. If I was them, I would go first base. I think Belly's got plenty of legs left under him. I think he can play the outfit. I think his athleticism kids kind of wasted at first base.

Yeah. So I would do that. I think that's where I would look. But then like there still needs to be more. And forgive me if I'm just screwing this up. Who's playing second base for the Yankees? Well, that's kind of, that's going to be the next pivot point. Because they're going to figure out between belly or if they bring Goldschmidt,

Carlos Santana, Christian Walker, Pete, like there's options at first base. Like, that's going to figure itself out. Kind of the big question in Yankee land is, are they going to let jazz play third? Or are they going to have jazz play second? And then there's been some, there's, there's some interest there. Hoss on Kim in knows that wrong. Well, that's the problem. That's the problem.

If there's a defender playing better than Volpe out there, that becomes a whole, like Italian mafia issue in the Bronx. And they still need a little bit of pop. I know that that might sound like Yankee obnoxiousness, but Juan Soto hit 40 last year. The rest of their lineup was very thin in the playoffs. That they need a little more pop that I, if you could get jazz at second and then like a third baseman,

whether that is Bregman or someone off the board. Because dude, if you bring in Breggy, like the Yankees play defense. and they give you good at bats as currently constructed with the moves Max Free, Devin Williams, Cody Bellinger minus Juan Soto better or worse off It's interesting isn't it coach

I don't think they're done yet So it's not fair to assess the offseason Just yet in my opinion but You need to see the rest of it You need to see the rest of it You need to see the war last year Juan Soto is still more valuable You need to see the rest of it

But war is only convenient if it fits your argument Right And are we still talking baseball or national news? Why don't you guys go out and grab a mountain do? You know what we all need more of Get off your ass Go outside. I know it's getting chilly. Who cares?

Go on a nice walk. Grab a mountain do. Go on one of those holiday walks. You know what I'm saying? Bold flavors and a refreshing citrus kick. mountain dew will get you off your and have you feeling like you're on an actual mountain. A mountain where the weather is always perfect. Your friends are ready to hang and a day of epic proportions awaits.

The mountain is calling. We're playing blitzball in the wires. Oh, and there it is. Parker Plouffe, the mountain doodle, if you will. Go and grab a mountain dew today. Ice cold, wherever refreshing beverages are sold. The mountain is calling. Go do the do.

Wow, look at the... If you're not on our YouTube right now, I'm sorry. The King of the North has joined us. Parker Plouffe. Olivia's taking the kids to school, so now I gotta... This is Palmer. Palmer, excuse me. And yeah, she is gonna hang with me for a little bit.

I think I'm just gonna let her roam around. We'll see what happens. Just don't chew any wires. Yeah. She's a little shy right now. You're camera shy? I didn't realize when you first told me Palmer, which I replaced with Parker,

I thought that was a boy dog, but it's a lady dog. Lady dog, yes. I've never had a lady dog. I've only had lady dogs. Really? Look at that. What a world. I guess slightly changing the tone.

The Baltimore Orioles, who we were doing some, you know, way too early winners and losers. I think we were just tightening the screws on our birds a little bit with this new ownership. Justified. Justified. Yeah. Did you ever watch that show? That feels like a Trev show. No, I don't know what you're talking about.

Okay. They signed Tomoyuki Shugano. Last name kind of reminds me of Joey Logano, which is not a big NASCAR guy, but I am a big baseball guy. And Shugano, 35 years old, is one of these guys who has been a, stars overseas. We've seen him in world baseball classics. One year, 13 million. So, you know, we're paying the price for a starting pitcher. He was your Central League MVP last year, 15 and 3 with a 1670 RA. The strikeout numbers aren't crazy and the Velo's not either.

You know, sits kind of around 92. But he's one of these guys. He's got the pitch mix. and I mean, dude, after watching Imanaga and like, you know, Imanaga was supposed to be, oh, we don't know if he's going to be anything. And he was one of the best pitchers last year. Heavy ground ball pitcher with which we like with the splitter. Again, Trev, I feel like we always say we're kind of guessing with these guys, but it feels like we're guessing less and less. Yeah, I don't think that's the case anymore because, you know,

I was reading an article about this last night. You know, we share like statcast information with the Japanese league. So it's, it's, it's your understand like the data comes across. You're able to, you know, sift through that, you know, understand what kind of picture you're going to get. I think one year $13 million for like any starter in the big leagues is a steal. Now, you know, you look at this guy's talent and what he's been able to do over there and you look at his pitch mix. I think this is a great deal for the Baltimore Orioles. They were talking about, you know,

why would this guy sign with Baltimore? It doesn't seem like the most likely landing spot for someone who wants to come over to the states and feel comfortable. It's not a huge Japanese population in Baltimore. But what they said was they had, you know, basically like a Zoom call with him. And they just talked about pitching. And they had this great back and forth about just usage and what they wanted to do. He was going back and forth of them about, you know,

he's what do you want for me? Do you want me to be a strikeout guy? Do you want me to be an innings eater? And they just had this real rapport together, just talking ball, which I think is great. And they mentioned how cerebral he was, you know, about, you know, just the game in general. And then specifically like his pitch mix, what, you know, what he tries to do, what he wants to do. You didn't mention this guy doesn't walk anybody, which is like, that's my thing. Take walks as a hitter.

Don't walk anybody as a pitcher. You got me for life. So I think I know that not every team necessarily was in the running, but I guess every team probably was in the running. The ordeal is just, they just talk ball with this guy and they were able to convince him to come for one year. I think this is a great deal. Do I think this takes them out of the running for, you know, a frontline starter?

No, it better not. Like this is, this can't be your answer to Corbyn's leaving. But dude, to fill a rotation out with a guy like this, I think is incredible. If he just becomes your fourth or fifth starter, I think you'll be very, very happy. Like the risk reward here plays in the Orioles favor big time. So I think this is a great signing. I watched some videos.

You know, he pitched in the 2017 World Baseball class. It didn't get to pitch in the 2020 one because of an elbow injury. But yeah, he's a guy, kind of like a nasty slider. He's able to spot it. Those are the fastball top of the zone. I have this I wish the twins would have done it like big time yes yes because that's I think that's the part like when you say any pitcher for one year is a good deal like okay whatever one year 13 I mean the number 13 is like what's a fourth or a fifth star now is 17

sure but I think the part I think the part that can even bolster your case here like there is side here, and whether that's just a new pitcher that can clearly pitch. Like, this guy's gotten a lot of outs before. So, you know, again, I'll go into a Nicki Cass character sketch for a little bit. Like, you know, I know he throws the different pitches and he gets out, but we can't measure location or, you know, a three-two count and all that stuff. But, like, genuinely, this guy's pitched and he's won every award, he's done everything that I'd like to think that there's more in there than just his spin rate.

And I think we saw that from Shoda last year. Obviously different pitchers. I mean, Shoddy's a lefty. But this guy has gotten professional hitters out for years. And I think the other thing that maybe we haven't figured out yet is, I believe overseas they still have a different approach. Like they still value putting the ball in play a little more. That getting strikeouts is harder.

that I think we've seen some of these pitchers come over and are like, wait, you're still going to take that swing with two strikes on you? Then I'll, Combeo, I'll just punch your ticket, that for one year 13 million, this guy could have a massive 25 season that you're right. I mean, any team at this price should have been willing to take this risk. I think it's just the question in Baltimore right now is how much of this is, you know, to show Corbyn,

or Jack Flaherty or the other pitchers out there, like, we don't need you. We'd still love to sign you, but we're not going to give you that extra year. We're not going to pay add that extra million. You wonder if that's a part of it, or, you know, do the Orioles think that this guy is the difference maker? But, yeah, Trette, like your twins example,

if you're, any fan base should have seen this signing pop up and go, ooh, one year 13 and he might just click. some of the numbers he walks 16 hitters in 156 and 2 thirds innings last year 16 right what's the what was the it's on the sheet here now 2.6%

walk rate pretty good that's good that's the best in all of baseball last year would not have beaten that so you know I don't think what you said is true I don't think this is like hey Corbyn's F you we got this guy I think it's more like

look, we're doing it. We're bringing more people. We want, we're ready to go. Come, come be the guy that puts us over the top. Corbyn Burns obviously was there last year and understands everything's going on in that organization. But, yeah, I mean, the more and more I look at it, the where I'm like, come on, twins. Yeah. How many teams could have used this guy?

Ethlyn, Greyrod, Dean Kramer, Shugano, and then our guy, Trevor, Rob. Rogers who got traded last year. Remember, that was... Let's see where he's at. Don't forget Swares. Young Kate Povich doing his Max Fried impression. And then our guy, big Al-Swaraz. Kyle Braddish and Tyler Wells,

both recovering from injuries. And, God, those guys were so, so good for them when they were taken off. We did a little bit of this, but okay, this is nice Orioles. you pair this with something else and we'll be excited, but you've got to pair this with something else, man. Shugano's the third highest paid bird. Eflin, Tyler O'Neill Shigano. Yeah, I mean, this,

they have to go out and get another starting pitcher. And there's guys still available, still available. And the other game that I love to play, and I think we're going to do it at the end of the audience. offseason. It's the would you rather? And it's like, you know, I mean, Sugano one year 13,

Tyler O'Neill is 15, I believe. So that's a $28 million per year bid? Like, I think it's just going to be interesting at the end of this off season.

That 28 million, could that have been insert name here? Could that have been Max Fried. Or would you rather have Sugano and Tyler O'Neill? So that's what's interesting with how you're spreading out your money a little bit. Where were you going? I cut you off a little bit.

I'm sorry. No, I was dealing with my dog chewing wires. Yeah. You're going to have that for a little bit. You're going to have that for a little bit. Probably not a good thing. How are we peeing? Are we peeing everywhere?

No, she's doing great. We've been... Nice. You've been the crate training thing. I've been waking up to take her out in the middle of the night, which is fun. Yeah. But, you know, we're training right now.

Yeah. So, God, so dang cute. It's just cute. Puppies, you got your kids. We have, like, coyotes and, like, mountain lions and, like, owls and, like, a lot of things that want to eat her. So we have to, like, I'm out there taking her to the bathroom in my expansive backyard.

and, you know, I'm like ready to go. I like that. I might have to fucking fight a coyote. Everyone in the comments. Comment your favorite animal, your favorite bird of prey. Owls are vicious. Don't let them. They're cute everyone.

Yeah, yeah, right, dude. I've seen them snatch up rabbits, dude. Yeah, and I always get sucked into those like, there will be some owl content on Instagram that's like, you know, this is what an owl is. legs really look like and you're like whoa they're huge dude owls are mad odd creatures odd creatures they can spin their head around 360 it's weird yeah hey guys nice set of hooters you got there today's episode is sponsored by cushy dreams it's

officially the holiday season we've got christmas hanaica's coming up after christmas we looked that up after before the show and then pictures and catchers. Cushy Dreams is the finest in legal cannabis, and they've got our favorite edibles. The best Delta 9 THC Gummies, they're legal too, and they ship directly to you.

Delta 9 THC Gummies contain the same active THC as the stuff they only sell at the dispensaries. Euphoric and delicious, they come in strawberry, sour watermelon, green apple, and tangerine. Since you're a Jomboy media fan, you get the deal of the year. take 30% off all of the D9 gummies and the entire store from now until Christmas Day with code John Boy, THC.

Three winners receive $100 Cushy Dreams credit. Each order over $50 qualifies as an entry. Winners chosen at random and contacted by 1231. Offer ends on Christmas Day. Get in now. We do a lot with cushy dreams on our JJ TV channel, and I think there's a lot of people that like to cushy it up with us. So hope you do too. Trev and, I don't know, I was going to go for the segue and say there's,

there's a lot of pitchers that have been cushy dreaming because just trying to get through rehab and stuff like that. I don't know. Pitchers are still getting hurt a ton. And there's, like we said at the top of the show, our guy, brother Jeff, is trying to get to the bottom of it. And I think it starts with prevention of injury. because that's been shown to be, if you get injured, you're more likely to get injured in the way that kids are now getting hurt.

I mean, is this baseball's new steroids? Like the biggest lurking issue in the sport that needs to be addressed now because it's only going to get worse and worse. Trev, you said you reached out to some people in the industry. I guess what do we got? Yeah, I mean, if you haven't read the articles, brother Jeff has I believe contributed to an article

kind of talking about MLB's research into this and then he has another article that has five biggest takeaways from their research paper and essentially yeah baseball is trying to figure this out because you know pitchers are some of the biggest assets

in all the baseball I mean Manfred was just talking somewhere like in a creepy conference room where he was sitting on one side of the table talking about it was a weird like Rob you and I have come a long way I think you've done some things for the game that I like we've had our differences

but he was talking about how they need to get the pitching marquee matchups back and that's the guy you see on the broadcast the most and that was what drummed up a ton of interest you know back in the day so they want to bring that back

we've talked about that on the show before But, you know, now pitching is being used differently, and I've talked about this too, about teams aren't looking for workhorse guys more because they don't exist because guys get hurt. And now it's more of like, well, because they're going to get hurt and because it's effective to switch out pitchers before the third time through the order, we're seeing just, you know, instead of three pitchers a night, we're seeing five. We're seeing six pitchers a night. Now, this article is mainly about the injuries and what they've become.

And, you know, we're just seeing what seems like more and more pitcher injuries come throughout the year. And it coincides with a lot of things. It coincides with the uptick and velocity, the chasing of velocity, if you will. So I reached out to my good buddy, old minor league teammate, roommate, J.P. Martinez, now pitching coach for the San Francisco. Francisco Giants. He's one of the most like prepared smart dudes you're ever going to meet. He gave me his ID back in the day. Did I use it a couple times? Maybe. Shout out Metterrey, Louisiana, where he's from. So I said, hey, man, like, can you just peruse this article for me and kind of give me your insights on it? And he did. And it was a very elaborate, which I expected from him.

And so I kind of just wanted to touch on a few of these things. And the main. And the main. gist of this research paper in the articles we're talking about velocity chasing and then early season injuries so he talks a little bit about that and then kind of how to how he thinks that we should we can't avoid those things so he kind of like i'm not going to go verbatim with what he said but i'll kind of give some of the bullet points uh we talked about the loss of the ban of sticky stuff or the attempted i guess ban of sticky stuff and the pitch clock. And in their research paper, I don't think there's enough data out there to really decide

if that's a contributing factor yet or not. JP believes that without the sticky stuff, said the forum must increase grip pressure and it fatigued sooner. They're the same muscles that absorb force and help protect your UCL. So if those are fatiguing and they're not able to protect your UCL, well, yeah, then he thinks that it definitely could be a contributing factor. I've been on record as saying, we don't care about sticky stuff as long as it doesn't increase performance.

So I think that is one major step that needs to happen. Let's figure out a tackified ball. Let's figure out a substance that doesn't increase spin rate but increases grip. I think that's a no-brainer. And JP seems to agree with that. Another thing they really, really talked about was the ramp up, like spring training and offseason. And, you know, I know a lot of people probably aren't familiar with offseason throwing programs,

but it varies from guy to guy. And typically, I know teams are more involved now than ever, but when you go into the off season, you're kind of just, you're gone. You work with your own people. You're in your own gym. You know, yeah, like I said, like I said, more and more now teams are involved with decisions and kind of give plans. pitchers are different than hitters.

Hitters kind of just go off. Pitchers should have a pitching plan, but again, it's like guys kind of do their own thing. They do what they think is best. J.P. says any good pitching coach knows that the most injuries happen in the first three months of the season. Guys either don't spend long enough building medium intent volume before moving into high effort throwing,

or they shut down for too long and don't ramp up in time for spring training. They try to go hard and show out their stuff and they get dinged up. That's what, you know, that's been an issue with guys like Blake Snow, who doesn't have a spring training, trying to find it and come into the regular season. Pitchers need this ramp up time. And JP specifically cites like medium intent. It's hard for guys to do medium intent when they're trying to make a team, right? So the medium intent has to come. It should come in spring training.

Right. But guys are looking at the data now. and medium intent doesn't make you, doesn't let you make the team. So I don't know if that means medium intent needs to come in the off season, which means less time for shutdown, which means more throwing.

I think really what I take away from that is there's nowhere to go. As long as we're looking at spring training numbers and taking them seriously, and we're looking at data and spin rate and Velo and saying, and we're chasing that for our guys that want to be on the roster, this is going to be a continuous thing.

There's no way really around that. Right? Like, if you're going to try to make a team, you're going to go 70%? There's no way, right? Trev, it's where I don't, there's not a solution for VLO. And it, like,

I got people might laugh at this, because I'm going to start off in a weird place. But for how much of a kook, kook ball I am, I'm pretty good. I always say I'm the best person to go apartment shopping with because I'm very logical on like, what are your needs? Like, do you care about your work commute? Do you need laundry in the apartment? Are you looking for me? Like, I just, I instantly kind of, it clicks on and it's like, this works or this doesn't

work. So when finding a solution for this, the Velo thing, there's nothing, man. Because what, I mean, if we put in a... I don't think it's the VLO thing, though. I don't mean to cut you up, but I think it's trying to be your best in spring training when you're not necessarily ready to be your... Right, but Trev, I mean, you've talked about this a lot. What, like, for a roster, how many of the...

How many of the spots are actually known? You know? Of the 26 spots? A lot, but I think relievers in general, that's probably the most up-for-grab's roster spot. Absolutely. And that's where guys are just going to try to throw the ball harder and gets out. And again, that should translate to Velo.

It's also the off-speed pitches. but I just feel like every year we see a couple relievers pop, and it's like, wow, that guy's got nasty stuff now, and then it kind of goes away. And you could tell in relievers' deliveries, you could tell in their motion. Like, again, I hope I'm horribly wrong about this. My guy Luke Weaver broke out last year,

and he's got this kind of unique windup where his legs, his lower half is moving really slow, and then he whips it in there. after years of being a starting pitcher, and hey, maybe those years of building him up as a starting pitcher is going to have him built to be nasty for the next eight years. I mean, I would love that. But it's also the body adjustment,

and I was really intrigued what you were talking about from the travel and the recovery time, because that's interesting to me. But we still just have a situation. Dude, you talked about it with Shigano. We're measuring his numbers, his spin rate, his Velo, that like that's where it's at nowadays, that if you're trying to make it to the big leagues,

like your livelihood depends if you never get that one year of 800K, never mind making it to the years where you start getting paid millions or whatever, that changes your life trajectory, that the risk reward, the risk is so worth it. Because I'm just going to sling 91 up there and never get out of double A?

Like, no. No, I think we're going to get there. And I think that's the overall point of this. But I want to go over kind of what the article was talking about. How to figure out injuries. Because the next thing he talks about, he goes, I don't think chasing Velo and stuff is a big factor in the big leagues.

And the reason he gives is these guys are grown men. Like, they're developed. He goes, I know it could be a major problem in athletes that have not fully developed physically. pitchers that haven't hit puberty, young guys, or not taking care of themselves during their time of college. These guys are still growing. And they're trying to chase the Velo at that point where, like, look, I'm no doctor, but I do know that you can really strengthen your muscles and get them bigger and bigger and bigger and your tendons can't really follow along with your muscles. So you can be crazy strong and you're doing all these things and your tendons are like, dude, like, can't really keep up here.

And that's the issue. So JP doesn't think that once you're physically developed, that you can, you can increase your V-Lo if you do it the correct way. He doesn't think that's a problem. You know, going to what you just talked about. I mean, I'm in the youth baseball game now. I mean, granted, it's nine-year-olds. But I still see, I still see it, man. I still see every parent, you know, their kids go into lessons like, you know, three times a week.

They're playing on two different travel ball teams. plus a regular season, like they're just playing too much. It's too much right now. We'll get into that. He says something that doesn't get talked about enough, and I think you kind of alluded to this with Weaver here, with certain pitchers trying to throw certain pitches

that don't agree with their anatomy and how they move or how their delivery works best. He says an example would be a high slot or pronation heavy guy throwing a sweeper or a suppination heavy guy trying to pronate a change up or a splitter. So we have all of the, the biometrics are there. These guys, you know, they get in front of these cameras. They'll put like the, they'll go into the lab, take their shirts off and set everything up.

So now they know how their bodies work. Like the good organizations do this. You know, I talked to Joe Ryan about this and how he developed his change up. And he's like, well, my arm slot, I thought was. low but it's really you know my fingers are above the ball and so like you understand he goes the good organizations know what's going to work with certain players and what's not but i think guys are like man like i need to be able to throw this pitch right and if it doesn't agree with your body then yes that's when injuries uh will come he says pitches should be fit to how a pitcher moves best

and i'm not sure even half of the teams are doing a good job with this like that's right that's interesting right like we we we now think that every team has is doing it the right way and we're hiring all these guys but it's not the case and i've been around and there are organizations that are much better at this uh than others so i think that is a very interesting point by him we're like yeah you need to know how you throw the ball um he says modern workload management strategies is a new boogeyman and kind of a throwaway term similar to analytics He goes, some teams do a really good job with individualizing info for each player and some don't. Some teams manage workloads intelligently and individualize it to the player and most don't. I think that's another really good point with people, just kind of like we were talking about the last point. Everyone's different. Like you go watch pitchers pitch. They're all different, man.

It's like kidders with their batting stances. Like everyone is different. Your bodies move different. And it takes a lot of time and resources to really individualize reports for every player. but if you want to curb injuries, I mean, that's something that you have to do. My take on all this,

my take on all this is big leaguers are big leaguers. And yes, I agree with you that, like Tyler Glass now, went on the rose rotation and talked about exactly what you were talking about where it's like, hey,

I'm trying to get a shot here. I'm trying to separate myself, get into college. And how do you do that? well, I got to throw harder. My stuff's got to be nastier. And then I want to get drafted and play pro ball. So how do I do that? Well, I got to throw harder. I got to be nastier. And then I want to get out of A ball to the big leagues. I got to throw harder. I want to make more money when I get to the big leagues. And it's just, it's this thing. It just doesn't freaking stop. There is, and brother Jeff has

found this out. And it's got to feel like crazy for him. There's no solution. There isn't. I don't care who thinks they have a solution. There isn't a solution. There is not. If you're going to continue to reward this. And look, VLO, it's, it is a PED, essentially. Like, you're, the ability to make mistakes with added VLO and still get results is, that's why people do it.

Like, it's the, the room for, the margin for air is so much. greater when you had the velocity. That's why people are chasing it. So it's similar to like we're talking about, well, hey, for a while, teams were rewarding hitters for their power. So like we saw guys swinging for the fences. And it was all about slug and contact rate, who gives a shit? Like, let's just hit homers.

Until you change the reward system, guys are just going to chase whatever the reward is. That's the bottom line, dude. How many times do I say on this show? When you, people are playing to get paid, dude. Like the love of the game, when you become, I'm a professional. It's there. You better love it. But like, there's something more than that. You're trying to provide for your family. It's a freaking job, dude. Yes. So if the way to make more money at your job and provide for your family is,

is velocity and chasing this stuff, people are going to continue to do it forever. Now, it's a job that the average person who is able to get that job, which is a very non-average person, Trev, their average career is three years now. Is that where we're sitting? I don't know. Some of you know, it's always in that range that like, it's, I don't have an answer, man. And the kids, the kid's stuff is so messed up. But, okay, I want to make the middle school team. Well, are they going to take the kid who throws 65 or the kid who throws 52? Okay, I want to play AAU ball. Are they going to take the kid who throws 75 or take the kid who throws 61.

And then, okay, it's high school ball. Are they going to take the kid who throws 73 or the kid who throws 82? Okay, it's junior college. Are we going to take the kid who throws 88 or the kid who throws – Like, it's endless. Frankie Montas got paid a bag because he still has arm talent. When I first came up, I played with several guys that threw like 100 miles an hour that barely ever cracked the big leagues.

Now you're going to go to the big leagues, no matter what. Like, they're going to figure it the freak out. Jim Hoey. Jim Hoey. Yeah. Big Jim Hoey, huh? Couldn't throw strikes, we threw 100. Right.

But he didn't, he barely pitched because they're like, well, you can't pitch. Like, you're not effective with it. Right, but now they, now with all that biomechanical stuff, you can, in three bullpen sessions, they say, well, when your foot lands here,

you throw a strike. Okay, let me do that. And they used to not have that. Jim Hoey Pat Lights another one that I played with who just threw cheese but like couldn't get guys out like it's like it's changed now like hey we'll figure it out you throw that hard we'll figure it out before it was like hey man like we got this guy that can get guys out let's get him up there and it's just it's changed there's so many ways to go here but again I think the overall take here is there's nothing you can do the only thing so okay the only thing I think you can do is expand roster and make mandatory rest days. Yes. I think that's the only thing that you can do because JP, Major League Pitching coach, says

there's no such thing as overuse, only incorrect use over time, no such thing is overwork, only under recover. So, if you had expanded rosters for like relievers or whatever and say a guy through X amount of pitches or X amount of innings, mandatory three days off.

Like that would change the injury reports. It would. Now it changes the game. People may not like that. I understand. But if you have time to recover, then the injuries would go down. Is that ever going to happen?

I don't know, man. Does it solve the problem of the youth game and these guys trying to make it? Absolutely not. Unless every single league adopted big time rest days. And it's not pitch count, it's recovery time. Then maybe we could see a light at the end of the tunnel. That is a big ask for a lot of people.

It's probably never going to happen. But I mean, that is, that's coming from a guy that's at the top of the field, man. Yeah, I think the closest thing I have to something to try for now would be like regular Monday, off days, kind of like the minor leagues does, that then it becomes more on the team to, like, you know you have a natural bullpen rest day coming. You can get an extra day for your starter if you need it. Like, again, that starts to get tricky because are you stretching out the season? Are you doing, are you taking games out of the schedule? Because we know how ugly that

can get. Are you making spring training shorter? But we just said we need more of a spring training buildup that I don't know. And I- One off day doesn't do it, though. That's I know what you're saying, and I get that. And I think a lot of players want that regular Monday off day. Right. And I think that makes sense. Like, I'm actually on board with that. But this isn't going away unless something drastic happens.

And you know what? I don't think the powers of B care. Not really, right? Not really. The drastic, I mean, none of the drastic stuff even makes sense. Like, okay, a pitch clock, that was drastic. But it was like, okay, if this speeds up the game and, It feels okay.

Like I don't know. The pitch limits and stuff you're mentioning, I just, rosters, like we just know teams are going to abuse those. And it might even- Not pitch limits, mandatory rest days.

That's mandatory, we'll call it mandatory recovery days. Yeah, it just, I don't know, like literally has that. And I don't know, like kids are still getting hurt, right?

So you can, okay, so if I throw 59 pitches instead of six, I can pitch in three days instead of four. Like, I just, I don't know, man. I don't know. I came on here wanting to bag on these facilities that just like train Velo, Velo farms.

Don't you guys have a Velo farm? I am a VAL farm. You are the VLO farm. I came, I wanted to bag on those places, but dude, they're just offering a service that people want. I don't know, man. I don't know. It is, it's harmful.

I came across an article. because you know every single big leader is like hey have your kid play different sports i truly do believe in that so if you're a parent listening i truly believe that if you want your kid to play at the next level he needs to learn like like good really good footwork now can you like specialize and just have him do a bunch of you know footwork drills like at a baseball camp sure i guess but like go let him play soccer and have fun with his kids his friends and he'll learn the exact same thing like that's why i think different sports matter because the movements that you gain from different sports, the strength that you'd gain from football,

the footwork you'd gain from soccer, you know, like all these things make you a well-rounded athlete. You know, people will come out and say, well, actually the best thing to do is specialize your kids. That's going to give them the best league up. I guess, but he's also going to be like kind of a, I don't want to say the L word. Okay.

Don't make your kids like that, man. Take shots of kids at the end of the episode. I don't know where we ended with this, but it's a very interesting subject. Go check the articles out. I know people have strong feelings on this. And I think my main conclusion is like there ain't nothing we can do, Pop. I texted passing. I said, pitchers getting hurt a lot.

He said, your analysis game has leveled up. I said, how do I fix it? He said, read the arm and stop taking Roman. So I'll work on that. I had something I missed on Shugano before we close. Same exact birthday. 10, 1189. You guys?

Me and, me and Sugano. So a couple guys living very different simulations, yet we both ended up here. Not that different, right? Eight, eight all-star games over there. Shout out, J.P.

Thanks for the info, my guy. Thanks, J.P. It sucks. We'll talk to you guys. Maybe Monday. There might be like a, what do you want under the Christmas tree? There might be voicemails. Check out of tweets and Instagrams for that.

Or if there's some breaking stuff. I mean, we're just kind of... No one's breaking news. I want to say built different, but... Not built the same. We look the same, today. The same. F-boys Anonymous.