Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Does the India-Singer trade make sense for both sides? | 927

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Watch Blitzball Battle 5 NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@WarehouseGamesHead to https://www.under510.com/TALKINBASEBALLto get $10 off your first order! Shop the hottest bats at the lowest prices this Black Friday and Cyber Monday and save up to 80% off with free shipping and free returns on every order: https://bit.ly/justbatsxtalkinbaseballCorona is for the fans who never lose. Be sure to get yours athttps://OrderCorona.comHead to https://omahasteaks.com and use code TALKIN for 50% off + a $30 reward!MLB offseason is heating up! Royals trade Brady Singer to the Reds for Jonathan India, Yusei Kikuchi signs with the Angels and rumors circulating around Rafael Devers moving to first base! 0:00 Intro3:20 Jonathan India-Brady Singer trade7:15 Joey Weimer traded as well9:50 Who won the trade?13:30 Hottest infield with BWitt and Jonathan India?17:40 Kikuchi signs with the Angels18:50 Angels buying in 2025?64:10 What Kikuchi can mean to the Angels30:00 Kikuchi impact on the Astros35:30 Red Sox talking about moving Rafael Devers to first39:50 Tristan Casas44:00 What would you do with Devers?45:50 talkin’ Non-tendered players Follow all of our content on https://jomboymedia.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball. The Hot Stove has started. A big trade with a couple Florida Gators, and you say Kukuchi to the Halos. Let's talk ball. Kikuchi. Reese Hoskins. Remember that?

Sure do. Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball. Seekek, Code Talkin'10. Go get yourself tickets to something. Jake Storelli, Trevor Plouffe. As we are getting into the teeth of the off season, we had our first trade. A couple guys, if you didn't get the reference, they played University of Florida together, traded together, singer for Jonathan India,

which I feel like we've had, what, four years of Jonathan India trade rumors. So that finally goes down. And then you say Kukuchi, who is going to be one of the, I don't know, question mark starting pitcher signed this off season. signs with a little bit of a question mark trev how you doing big guy i'm so happy to be talking ball with you on this monday morning i'm happy we got some some news because as we talked about this is kind of the weird time period with thanksgiving and christmas coming up and some of these teams took our advice jake and they got active before the holiday so this is uh it's going to be a

fun one i i do think we have been talking about india being traded for four years he was like he's like Aaron Hicks. Aaron Hicks forever was talked about being traded, and all of a sudden he actually went over to the Yanks. Oh. Yeah. Good way to bring your twins into it. How about that?

It's all about me, Jake. Glad. It always is, man. Did you, the color combination, you know, I try not to talk about your outfits anymore, but the color combination is throwing me off right now. This is all of green and purple. I don't know.

I'll be straight up with you. And everyone on the YouTube, please subscribe. appreciated. Happy holidays, all that fun stuff. Um, you know, I tried to do some. I'm not going to stand up for you. Uh, I don't know if you remember this. I got a pair of stylish joggers. Like they, they tried to get into like, they almost look like soup pants. Are they pleaded? Yes. Um, and at first I actually, I'm wearing three shirts right now, which I never do. At first I put this on and it kind of didn't work. So then I just add another layer, because I, I think it's all about layering.

I feel like every time I see a hot guy, they're wearing like 11 shirts. Like Timothy Shalame is always wearing like nine shirts. I guess I just have body fat for that. I don't know. Just put some more on then, I guess. I don't know. So, yeah, I might, by the end of this show,

I might just have more shirts on and hope at some point I look good. We'll see. We'll see. Trev, let's talk some ball. man, it's been a lot of, a lot of, oh, I want Soto and where's, where's this guy going to sign? Things are starting to happen. We're not really going to talk a lot of Soto today. Like, he's, he's, like, actually taking real meetings, and hopefully we'll start to get some meat there.

And hopefully that starts to get the whole offseason going. And we'll get into that more with the free agents with the Kikuchi trade. But let's talk to Jonathan India Brady Singer trade. So Jonathan India from the Cincinnati Reds, rookie of the year, the hair keeps growing, the facial hair, you know,

kind of a favorite on this program going back to the scooter Reds. He gets traded with Joey Weamer, another show favorite, Chili Weemer, for Brady Singer. So we have a case here. The Kansas City Royals,

we talked about their lineup a lot as they made their postseason run. They add a bona fide hitter. The Reds add a certified at the minimum innings eater and a guy that we've seen with the potential to give you more out of the rotation. I guess what are your initial reactions to the trade? Sometimes it just lines up for both teams. That's what my initial reaction is.

I like this trade. I think that there's a lot of things you can point to with both of these teams and reasons that they... eventually made this deal happen. For the Reds, they were looking for a little bit more stability in that rotation, a bunch of young guys who, you know, they needed someone to eat some innings so they could, you know, skip a day if they need to or, you know, just they needed to add depth of that rotation.

And now that you look at it in the addition of Singer, you know, along with, you know, Lodolo and Hunter Green and Abbott, there's potential there. And so I like it for, you know, a Reds team, I believe the count was 16 different starting pitchers last year for them. So you stabilize the rotation. I'm always about stabilizing the rotation. So it makes sense for them.

And then for the Royals, I think it's almost a two-parter here. You know, Bobby Wood Jr., hit in second, did not hit with a lot of runners on base last year. The lead-off men for the Kansas City Royals hit 228, 2.2. 270, 334 for a 604 OPS. So they're looking to put somebody in front of Bobby Witt, to turn that lineup over and to benefit more from having a guy that's finished second in the MVP there. So it makes sense.

I was looking at some stats prior to this about Jonathan Indian. I told you, you know, sometimes you're like, hey, I'm going to look up this stat. Hopefully it fits my narrative. And fortunately for me, this one did. I said, how many pitches? does Jonathan India see per plate appearance? Because I do feel like he works a good at bat.

Last year, I mean, he's like a 360, 370 kind of OBP guy. So, I mean, you went and just raised the Royals leadoff hitters by 100 points as far as on base percentage. But Jonathan India takes those good at bats. He's actually last year was 15th in all of baseball. 4.16 pitches per plate appearance. I'm looking at this list. I don't see one royal on there. So you're adding a guy that's, you know,

taking a professional combat in front of your murderer's row of Bobby Witt, Sal, and Vinnie P. I think it's a no-brainer for them. The only question I really have for the royals is kind of where does he fit? Defensively. I thought Massey played well last year. I liked watching him, you know, play second base.

They have Garcia at third. I think that'll be interested to see how they kind of find that rotation. out but when you can add somebody that is a proven stick at the top of the line that they can get on base i think it makes it a ton of sense and then to finalize my thoughts the joey weamer throw in i think is great for the royals i mean look this guy is an athlete and he's got five years of control he's 26 years old like sometimes things happen a little bit later for guys that they can you know kind of harness his ability let him go run around that big old outfield out there i i i i I don't, I think that's just like a lottery ticket for them that they could find themselves, you know, feeling pretty good about the trade if he turns into something.

Yeah. I'm in. I think this is great for both teams. It's, it's always where you wonder how the trade talks actually went down because these guys have the same amount of service time remaining. Like they have two years left. Again, both Florida Gators, both high draft picks that, you know, at what point during the negotiations was it like? hey, let's do Singer for India straight up. And it's like, well, actually, we're going to need more with India.

Well, we're going to need more with Singer. That, yeah, Joey Weimer, the lottery ticket he is, that, hey, we've seen him play some high-level defense at the Major League level. If he has that one thing click with his swing, you know. And worst case, you've got a, you know, a quad-a guy to call up this season if you're Kansas City. India position-wise, I'm not too worried yet. They needed hitting.

Right now, FanGraphs is listing him as their DH. Ideally, you want a little more pop there, although if everything else this off-season lands however they're looking to go get it, like Jonathan India doesn't grade out well defensively. So if that's it and some other guys fall into place at other positions, okay, let's do it, go hit, get it. on base, and he got on base at the lead-off spot. Like, that's important to me.

Like, this isn't, this wasn't, he hit six for the Reds and he put up these numbers. He's been a lead-off guy for a lot of his time, or at least a top part of the lineup guy. You know, I am interested. He had some pretty big home road splits last year. You're going from a bit of a hitters park in Great American Ballpark, going over to Kansas City, so let's see what that looks like. But he's in his prime. I think he fits in with those guys.

I know that's dumb stuff, but like India Witt, Vinnie P. Yeah, and you mentioned Michael Massey. I do believe it was his wedding over the weekend. I saw Vinnie Pasquintino posting IG stories. Oh, yeah. I did see that. Vinny looked great. All the boys did.

Witter, it's if you don't know, and, you know, I was at a very popular one last year, but it's MLB wedding season. This is when the guys can get married. So all the guys are doing the wedding rounds. For the Cincinnati Reds, if we had to, if we were doing, which side won the trade, I slightly lean the Reds. Brady Singer, we've seen the last three years he has thrown 150 innings. that's something you can count on.

Nobody in the Red's current rotation has started more than 26 times in a season. He's done that the past three years. So, like, you are adding a stabilizing force with some serious upside. Like, in 2022, when he kind of broke out fully, 3-23-ERA, 153 innings, everyone is expecting him to build upon that breakout. He didn't it the next year. he got rocked around the park, but he bounced back, which, hey, I don't know if that shows some sort of level of resilience.

I don't know what happened fully in the 2023 season, but you get a, both these guys are in their prime. I'm going to lead, especially for both these teams' needs, because Kansas City needed a hitter, Cincinnati needed a pitcher. It felt like Cincinnati needed a pitcher more than Kansas City needed a hitter. I don't, maybe that's dramatic and just wrong. But with Brady Singer, and like go check out where Hunter Green stats landed last year.

You can be building a steady rotation. And for Cincinnati, this was kind of the move that, again, there was a reason it was rumored for years. Like Matt McLean is supposed to be healthy next year. He takes second base. Elliot short, Noelvie Marte at third. He had, McLean was hurt. Noel V had the PED thing.

I think if you're the Cincinnati Reds, it feels like, hey, we kind of opened up a window. we don't know what kind of window it is. Maybe it's a chasing 86 win wildcard window, which, hey, in today's modern baseball, that can get you somewhere. But it feels like they made themselves a better all-around team with this trade.

That's, it's very impressive, I think, for the Reds to be able to get Brady Singer for a guy that everyone knew they needed to trade. Sometimes you lose your leverage when everyone's like, hey, we know you got all these guys coming back. We know you've been shopping Jonathan India for years. Luckily for them, you had a good year last year. But yeah, when you know someone needs to get rid of a player, you said, you kind of lose the leverage there. But yeah, I do agree with you. If I'm looking

at this face value and who it helps the most next year, I mean, I don't know, man. I guess I'll always lean a starting pitcher. Like I said, stabilizing the rotation is very important. But, I mean, we just read the numbers of the Royals leadoff hitter. Yeah. Hitters last year. And we're going to, you know, take a huge step up from that offensively. It's, did they sell high on Brady Singer? Like, sometimes my mind will run that way.

All of a sudden, I mean, in 2023, you asked what happened. He had a negative 12 run value on a sinker. He flipped that to positive 13 this year. I don't know what he did different. That helps. They found something. They found something. So, you know, I think I just, I like this trade for both sides.

I really, I really, really do. And it begs the question, Jake. Is this the hottest middle infield duo in baseball, Bobby Wood Jr. and Jonathan India? There's definitely an argument, right? Name some other ones that are beating that, because I'm not really sure, Pop. Well, you know, I like both sides. I mean, even if you could go, you know, L.E. Day, La Cruz and Matt McLean. you kind of get a little bit of different.

A little bit of both, okay. Different tastes there. Like a tall alien and kind of like a short stout king. Kind of like, what do you like? You know? That's like me and you. Yeah, it's just going to say, we get a lot of comments on this show. Gunner Henderson and, you know, just put Jackson Holiday there.

That's deece. I mean, too. Maybe too young, too young for me. Yeah. Let's see it sort out throughout the rest of free agency. Seeger and Simeon. I mean, you could kind of pair That's sugar daddies, baby

It's sugar daddies and Simeon is fierce Comment below Comment below, hottest midlandfield duo Usland door pair with I guess the Mets have a lot of I don't know, there's a lot of options out there Boba Shett I like, it was a good

I think the thing we keep falling back on and it's because we're about to talk Kakuchi in a second and hey, we're even some Red Sox coming at the end of this with Devers and is a guy like Tristan Kassas available. The pitching commodity is just different priced. Like, you know, I think India finished with like a 1.4 war last year

that we just saw Yusay Kukuchi get over 20 mil a year when he has very limited seasons being a plus pitcher where Brady Singer now is young, like he's got two in the last three. That, yeah, it slightly feels like you'd rather, half singer. I do like that the royals are trying to address a team need. And, hey, maybe they've got, you know, something figured out pitching wise, you know? Cole Reagan's, they got for Chapman, and they've tapped into him fully, Lugo and Waka, even the old Bulls, like, hey, if they have

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Hit the link in the description to see our favorites. And the offer will pop up right for you. Thanks, under 510. Trev You say Kukuchi Signs to your Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

Three years 63 million Right on the projected number For a lot of websites And maybe that's what he wanted And the first team to give him that price tag He took it I just talked about some of the

Pitching value and all of that When he went over to the Houston Astros last year. Kukuchi did Shuff. And he earned himself a lot of this money as his 10 starts at a 270 ERA, 60s innings pitch, 76 strikeouts in those innings. Trev?

Where do you want to go, man? Because there's a pitcher side to this. There's an angel side to this. Please. Yeah, I think we'll do the angels in a hole because they've done a few. And that's a W-H-O-L-E, not H-O-L-E. There's a lot of that on the internet the past week or so.

Okay. They've been, okay, I think a lot of people want the angels to just strip it down and absolutely rebuild. The problem with that is it doesn't really work that way anymore. With the draft lottery, you're not guaranteed anything if you end up with a terrible record. So really you have to be, which I think is a good thing. I think it really is a good thing for baseball.

So to be successful in today's game, your organization has to be able to develop players and trade for players. Like addressing everything via free agency is just not the answer. You can supplement, maybe it's something that puts you over the top, but very rarely, you know, maybe the Rangers are the most recent example of this.

Very rarely do you just go out and change a franchise because of what you do in free agency. You know, you can say, The Royals did it last year. They had Bobby Wood Jr. in the organization. They had Sal Perez in the organization. Vinnie P.

They supplemented. They didn't change the organization via free agency. So I like these deals for the angels, going out and signing Darno, going out and signing Kukuchi, trading for Solair. They're not organizational changing deals, but they're a start. They're a start to some culture. I talked about that before. I think that was, it might have been with Chris Ruech, about you can't like if you have guys coming up you have to try to create some some wins on

the field like you need to create that culture bring guys over who have done it uh and is it gonna serve you like for like next year like are the angels all of a sudden going to be running it for the aOS well maybe if they make more moves i don't know but as of right now probably not but you're starting to you know i don't know win back your fan base a little bit more importantly for me it's you get guys around together trying to win base baseball games and that creates the culture. Ron Washington wants to do that. And now he's got some guys, you know, on the team. They're moving in the right direction. And I can't, all we ever ask teams is to be active, go try to get better. So the angels have done that this

year. And maybe it is because they saw the royals and say, hey, they added a few guys and look what happened to them. Now, the angels don't have Bobbywood Jr. on their team, but they have some young guys that they like that are homegrown. And I don't know, this is, it's, it's, it's been I think these moves are smart. Like three years, 63, that's not like, even that's not, you know, crazy. You know, I think you're, again, you're paying for what he did with the Astros. You understand that if he goes out and balls out the first half of this year and your team's kind of middling, like, that's a very attractive deal to a lot of different teams right there. So could you recoup some stuff in a trade package?

There's a lot of options that you have if you're the Angels. So I'm happy for them, man. I want to see them get back to being, you know, a competitive organization. And moves like this, I think, are a start. Yeah. They are. Yeah. It just feels like the same song and dance, man.

And I realize, like, I'm probably going to walk all over myself a little bit because I, I hear what you're saying and you got to do something, right? I shouldn't be mad they brought in Jorge Soler. I'd, you know, basically for the price of free. Like, I think the Braves DFA'd Griff Canning. So like, okay, so they brought Jorge Soleran on his contract. They signed Kukuchi to a deal that won't really hurt their books. They're betting on the potential they saw in the last 10 starts.

You know, those 10 starts are with an organization that has tapped into players for the past decade, now and the angels kind of have felt like they've had the opposite effect but what are you supposed to do not just not sign players because we we can't coach him well um and the whole thing you know they brought in ron washington it's a new front office new staff all of that um i i don't know i you need starting pitchers you need innings kikuchi did end up thrown 175 of them last year and if he hey whatever you learned

at the end of last season but keep keep doing that it's also dude it's it's demoralizing showing up to the ballpark and like okay do you want to know the ranks of all of their starting pitching or the rotation last year I mean they all start with a 26 27 28 30th in baseball and all

the important statistics it is demoralizing to your franchise to show up and know that you just you don't really have a chance. So, like, address that. Like, get some of that stank out of there, man. Like, I played on teams where we knew we were just going to lose, and it's just an absolute waste of a year, waste of, you know, any sort of ability to improve

or to get better as a player because you're just like, man, this is, it sucks. So, like, I think there is an aspect to that with these signings. Like, we need to, like, it put a better foot, forward. We need to sign some guys. We need to get that out. And the organizations that they brought them in from, you know, the Braves, you acucce a little bit of time with the ashes. What are the secrets? Like, give me the secret sauce. What brings something over from those organizations. Put that smell, if you will, on us. Like, I think there's a lot to a lot of that aspect is why they made

these moves, in my opinion. It makes sense to me if you think about it like that. Like we can't go out there and be this team. It is detrimental to the future. of this franchise as well. Like you have to start being competitive, even if it's, you know, smaller moves like this, that, you know, it's just that one first step. Here's the devil's advocate angle that I think I'm into. Because it, Trev, I'll be honest with you.

I, you know, I like the optimism in your heart. It's the offseason. That's what we need. You know, if this is, if we're doing the team profile and projection tomorrow and we see the rotation of Kukuchi, Soriano, Anderson, Hendricks Debtmers. You know, I don't think we're getting too jazzy about these angels.

You know how I feel about Reed Detmer's. I just... I know how you do. They need to trade him. They need to trade him. I don't think so. I think you need to figure out how to make Reed Detemers work.

That too. That too. Yes. Like, I think this guy could be an absolute stud. I've seen him just locked in. He's like Blake's now to the max. Like, there are times where he just looks unhittable. I believe he has a no hitter under his belt.

And then other times where it just can't find the strike zone and just is not very good. I agree. Please tap into this guy. Here's what we don't know. And again, this might be a little dark, but this might be a little true. Because we've talked about this, the past few free agencies with some of the big starting pitchers out there. Your guy Snell, Monty, guys signing with the angels. Like, you know, there's this starting pitching crock, Corbyn, Max Fried, Snell, Flaherty, Mania.

you start getting to Avaldi and some other pieces that, you know, let's see where those contracts land and all those guys have pretty decent markets. Is there any chance that the angels were like, hey, we're, we need pitching. Let's go get pitching that they talked to Snell. And Snell was like, you know, I'm going to be honest with you guys. I'm probably not going to sign with the halos. And they called up Max Fried. And Max Fried is like, you know, I'm looking at East Coast or Corbyn.

Like, yeah, if you, you know, if you guys want to pay $250,000, let's talk about it. Is there a chance that they kind of looked at this starting pitching free agency landscape and was like, hey, Kukuchi's looking to get his three for 63. That can be our guy. It's not the biggest commitment. We don't have to get in bidding war slash or against guys that maybe don't want to be here. Yeah, I think they just went out and got someone early. I don't know if Kukuchi celebrates Thanksgiving, but it also kind of comes into my

play on that. Like, go, go, go, they're saying, go ugly early. I just think, go out and sign guys.

Like you said, yeah, does he want to be there? Sure, whatever. But the fact that, I kind of lost my train of thought here. That's it.

You were deep in Thanksgiving and then you got thrown off because Kikuchi might not celebrate. I don't think he does. He probably doesn't. So, maybe he does. Maybe he does.

Is there a qualifying offer attached to Kukuchi? No, there's not. He got traded to the Astros last year, no qualifying offer, only three years, you know, $20 million a year. There's a lot of attractive things about Kukuchi that, you know, I think Perry saw and was like, hey, this guy can be through stretches just as good as those other guys. You know, we've seen him do that. So why not go make that move? I think it's a smart, savvy move by the Angels.

I do. It gives them options, Jake. If he's there for three years and dominates and they get better, then okay, do I see that happening? No, I think he, if he goes out there and pitches really well, I think eventually they trade him and try to bring in more players. I just, I think there's a lot of options. I really do. Hopefully they have options. If he pitches like he does in Houston, it'll look like one of the better signings of the offseason.

So it's tough because you can't take off the angel blinders anymore. I mean, we've been at this for a while now, and it's the same story every year that hopefully the story's got to change at some point. Is there any part of this that's like, hey, let's like we had the Japanese market on Locke with Shohei lost that last year. Is any part of that going on with this, you think? Probably, right? Crazier things have been said. Japanese ballplayers are the hottest thing. Right?

in Major League Baseball right now. They're the bells of the ball. Like every team's like I need to have a Japanese star on my team. There's a whole market there waiting to be, you know, explored. And I, it's a lot of things I like about this, Jake. You know what else I like? Kukuchi is going to end up with $130 million in his bank account and like really is never put together like a full year.

That's crazy. Is that the right amount? of money. Yeah. His lowest ERA was a 386 through 167 innings. Somehow got a Sy Young 9 with a 405 in last year. How does that work? He was great for Houston down the stretch.

Through this, he's made $80 million already. What's he doing? Isn't he notoriously sleepy? Doesn't he sleep 13 hours a day? What's in his basement? I don't know. Good for him, man. Different, like just different beds And not like

Diddy style, just like different types of sleep When people are complaining and saying Man, pitchers just all they want is their Statcast in their spin rate It's like, yeah, like the peripherals get you paid Teams can dream And hey, the other just little note on this Houston traded for him at the deadline

They gave up a bit of a package Jake Bloss, Joey Lopifito, and Will Wagner. Let's see how that plays out over the next couple years. Houston, they got bounced by those tigers this year, Detroit Kitties. And the Blue Jays, maybe it can be, you know, something they can look at in the next couple years of like, hey, we did pretty good on that deal. We got a couple MLB bodies out of it.

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21 plus, relax responsibly. Corona extra beer imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois. Go get yourself some coronas. Trev, a little bit of news rumors from the Commonwealth. your Boston Red Sox. They're talking about moving Devers to first base. I mean, this has been something that's been rumored for a little bit now. There's also third baseman available in this free agency market,

whether that's Bregman, Aeronado via trade, Willie Adomas sliding over. And we've been curious how the Red Sox are going to get in the mix this off season. They've been attached to crochet. I think the thing I want to ask you is like where do you from a player's side feel about it's easy for us to be like Devers she moved to first right like obviously Rafael Devers who has improved at third base is putting a lot of work there he also has signed a mega contract that he's going to be in Boston for a long time and it's he's not going to slide to short or second then I'd love to know your thoughts on the whole position move concept

And then if the Red Sox do go through with this, people are wondering, would that make Trisinkas or Yoshida available via trade? And could that be kind of a triggering move for the Red Sox to retool on their pitching staff or somewhere else? Yeah, I think this, if this does happen, has massive implications for the way the Red Sox, you know, operate going forward. If they make those guys available, we talked about how left-handed heavy they are, you know, the young guys they brought up, the young guys that are still on their way up. There's a lot of lefties there. So they have some depth.

They have some corner infield depth. They have some outfield depth that they can deal with, deal from, excuse me. From a player's perspective, moving positions. I think you have to be realistic with yourself. You know,

I got a call one off season to move off a shortstop, and I had to look myself in the mirror and say, well, yeah, like you didn't play that well at shortstop. And that's a very important, position. You got to field the ball. You got to be able to do things there and I wasn't getting the job done. That was to the outfield. That was a little bit bigger shock to me. That was learning basically a new skill set. Third base to first base, I think is obviously a little bit closer. I've always said

this on this show. First base is not a slouch position. It's just not. There's so many, even more so than third base. Like third base, yes, you're still involved in bunt coverages. You're a relay guy. So like those things are going to translate. But there's so many more. more responsibilities on every play for a first baseman. You know, knowing one of the biggest things a first baseman has to learn, and it's one of the last things to come because you just need reps there, is how far can I play off the base and still get to the base on a ground ball to the shortstop?

Like you have to get to first base. So, like, it's not as easy as everyone thinks. Could Raphael Devers do it and become a good first base? And I think so, yeah. Like, you have to be taught the right way. You know, when you sign a deal like he did, I mean, he signed through, 233, I'm sure there was discussion about like, hey, like, this is what we see from you in the future. I'm curious what that was.

Was it, hey, like, we're going to keep you at third base. We'll want you comfortable there. And then all of a sudden, one year into the deal, you're telling him differently. Like, that could cause a little bit of, you know, anger in a player. But again, I think you have to be realistic if you're Raphael Devers and say, well, I really haven't. Yeah, have I improved? have things gotten better? Yeah, but I'm still not where I need to be defensively.

And maybe this will, maybe this will unlock something even more offensively. If you can get over there, feel comfortable in the field, maybe things change. But you never know to you do it. I don't think he should be opposed to the move. And like I said, that they do end up doing this.

I think it just creates, you know, a chain of events that, you know, really shake up this roster big time. Yeah. Yeah, the work he's shown me at third base through the years, because he has put in the work and improved a lot of his skill set over there. If he brings that to first base, I mean, I think you're looking at a guy that can be a potential plus over there. Like, he, uh, Rafi Scoops.

Like, he, sure, there's going to be growing pains, but if you lean into that, he's still, yeah, he's 28 years old. He just turned 28 in October. Like, you can, you can be looking at a guy that can be a high. level third baseman for the next five years, six years? That I, I'd like to think that's the move. And I think he's Raphael Devers. He's one of the best pure hitters in baseball that,

sure, having him on your team is awesome, but having him at third base, like, you just, you know that you're not going to get a plus defensively over there. Like, you're hoping to get league average with obviously a plus plus hitter. that if you move him to first base and depending who you bring in at third, it can change your whole team dynamic. And that's before you get to the fact that if they do do this,

you know, we just talked about the trade market. Tristan Kossis, man, that's a guy that people are wondering how a Garrett Crochet trade is going to go down. And maybe it's not crochet. But Kossis wouldn't be a free agent until through the 2020. He got hurt going into last year. When he came back, he put up kind of CASIS numbers, a 120 OPS plus, 13 homers, and 63 games.

Like, in the past two years, he's had an 838 OPS as a 23 and a 24-year-old. That's a cornerstone piece, man. That's a guy that if trade talks are developing, whether it's crochet or another piece, you can really sink your teeth in. Like if you're the team trading away a big piece, Luis Castillo is a guy that's been rumored this offseason.

If you're the team trading away a guy like that, you need to point to something to your fan base and just getting value back that if it's that or if there is a Masataka Yoshita trade. Like we talked about some of Jonathan India's numbers, Yoshida's numbers are in that range. Obviously, like the contracts a little bit. different, but teams need lefty bats.

I know he's struggled defensively. If this is the move that unlocks Boston's offseason, and you're right, dude, when they came up with that contract, they didn't have Devers there for over a decade plus that it feels like a positive step and direction of change for the Red Sox. These are all rumors, by the way. His agent came out and said, like, no. He's a third baseman. That's what he likes.

That's what he wants to play. So, like, there's that. And it's, it's, it's an interesting one for me because you don't have to trade Casas if you move him to first base. You have to relegate him to DH and maybe you move, like you said, Yoshida. But also, why can't Devers just do that? I think moving a 24-year-old to DH, it's just like, that's faux-pa to me. I don't know why.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense. So if they did actually commit to move. him to first base, I think that does signal that Casas is getting traded. I don't think you just move him to DH. Like if you wanted to get Devers off of third base to bring somebody else in, whether it's an Adama, a Bregman or an Aeronado or whoever else, you could just say, dev, like, go DH. We're going to keep Casas at first base. Instead of you having to learn a completely new position, let's just keep a guy that's played there and knows what he's doing. U.D.H. it's it's interesting man

I don't I kind of wanted to happen because it will really it will really set off like I said a chain of events they'll change the landscape of baseball

because if costas becomes available you're right that's massive return package for a guy like that who's got the numbers he's got with team control that he's under

there's the sky's the limit for the package that you could ask for him like what would the what would the freaking Mariners give up to get him? Hey man, I know money gets tricky here, because Luis Castillo is getting paid.

Cossus isn't, but I'd be interested in how that, I would be super interested to see how that general manager trade conversation went down. If Seattle and Boston got on the horn and we're like, hey, Cossus, how about this, Cossus for Castillo, which side says you have to put in something else? Oh, I think the Red Sox that you have to put in some money. Yeah.

I know. It's in our heads. Still going, who still has option years, right? He's not even in arbitration yet. Right. You're getting, you're getting costs us for the, I mean. A little above league minimum. Minimum.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think maybe for some baseball fans, that's a tough thought starter exercise. because of who Luis Castillo is. That would be very interesting because Boston's a team that, again, should have the bank roll to bring on that kind of money and go look at Tristan Kossis' spray chart. If you had to bet on a guy that Seattle wouldn't hurt him too much,

I mean, he is all over the park and deep. Trevor Plouffe Special. Let's see it, Boston. Get in the mix this offseason, They're supposed to be in the mix. They're going to be, they're willing to, they're willing to,

you know, pay the competitive balance tax, like go over that threshold. So that's, if you're a Boston Red Sox fan and you finished what? Did they finish straight up 500 last year? Is that what it was?

Let's see, Treve. Good question. Red Sox final record. They finished with 500 on the nose. 81. Yeah. Wow.

It's like I talked baseball for a living. Wow. you got to give him something, man. Like, let's go. Craig Breslo, you're a smart guy. I think he was a teammate of mine at one point. Okay. Reach out, Craig.

Yeah. Reach out. I'll let you know what to do with this whole situation. Man, if... Well, okay, in your mind, in your mind, let's just real quick. Quick answer here. What do you do in this situation? Do you stand, Pat, and how things are?

I just trade from your outfit. depth you. I would move Devers to first. I would use my, what should be my financial flexibility to make a trade for Castile or Aronado. And kind of like you were saying,

you know, I mean, Aronado especially, that could just be almost a salary dump of sorts that I think his swing with the monster might work out. And then if you still have CASAs, can that get a crochet trade done? Like, you can really retool this thing. And I think about their outfield too, man.

Jaron Duran, Rafaelo, William Arbrew, like, these are all young guys that are legitimate big leaguers and, you know, have, like, shown, like, some real flashes there. And, like, there's supposed to be more help along the way, whether it's Kyle Teal or Marcella Meyer. Like, I don't know if it's next year, but, yeah. if you can build something now and then have reinforcements on the way, that's how the Red Sox get in the mix more. So interested to see which way they go for it. Trev, let's wrap up with some of the non-tender. We had kind of the final start to free agency.

If you have no idea, and Trev, you can, I say this in a tasteful way. You can talk about this better than me. but the non-tender players enter arbitration in teams if they deem that they don't want to pay whatever their updated arbitration number would be they non-tender them it allows them to go to free agency and sign wherever they want so that's obviously a double-edged sword where free agency sign wherever they want because you know you're with an organization you've been with you're if they're not willing to pay it is another team in some cases yes in some cases no

I'll let you talk about it. Yeah, no, I mean, it's an important part of like a roster process. I mean, non-tender means you get taken off the roster essentially. So you're not on a 40-man roster anymore. They, you know, you can still negotiate with your team for like a lesser salary and then they can put you back on the roster. You can, you know, get granted free agency. So, I mean, yeah, I, the twins did this my last year of arbitration.

I was going there. I was going to make, you know, 10 million bucks or something like that. That's what I was projected for. And they said, you know what? We got Miguel Seno and we think we can allocate that 10 million dollars better elsewhere,

which is looking back at it. Really stupid for the twins. I'm going to say so myself. Yeah. So they cut me. They, you know, gave me a call and said,

hey, we're taking off the roster. You know, thanks for all that you done. And then I ended up signing a one-year deal with the BAs for less than that. So, you know, that's kind of what these guys are all going. It's, it's not fun, man. I'll tell you that much.

Like, it's, it's, it's kind of a sad day. Like, you're in the off season. Now all of a sudden, your futures, you know, influx. You know, some of these guys, they know they're going to get a big big deal. Like, I knew I was going to get a big league deal when I got, uh, non-tender. But it is for a lot of them. It is, you know, their first organization who, like, you know, they care about you more than any other organization that you're ever going to be part of.

Like, your first one cares of. about you the most. And you develop some equity, if you will, in that organization. Now you're just kind of, you're out there, you become a mercenary, whatever you want to call it. But there's some interesting names on here. I told you, Patrick Sandoval was at the Rams game last night. He's kind of been a, you know, a guy that the angels are waiting to have breakout for them and the starting pitching staff for quite a while. He probably was going to be due too much money according to their, you know, analysis. So he goes on there. We talked about like, Nick Madrigal, like Mike Talkman,

all these guys that were supposed to be, you know, big prospects, big guys at the major league level. And the game's hard, Jake, man. It's hard to be good for a long time. Yes. You know, Sandival, he was projected to get, I think, 5.9 mil this year. But he underwent T.J.

So, like, they're doing equations for the next couple years there. and where they thought that could land, puts them in a tough spot. And I, you know, there's a couple names on this list. And I think the relievers stick out the most because that's the, with relief pitching being the most volatile position, you see that teams, the equation becomes a lot tighter. Like, you know, if it's your team starting third basement and they're going to get paid seven and a half mil,

and that, you know, they think your value might be five or six mil, but then they've got to go out and hunt for another third baseman. They might be like, well, let's see what our guy is. We know this guy. Like, let's run it out there. If you're a reliever, those numbers get tighter that Jordan Romano, you know, all-star closer. We've seen this guy be dominant.

He was due 7.75 mil this year after having an injured and down-performing last season. you know, for the Blue Jays, they said, well, we can bank on Jordan Romano coming back. And if he looks like that, you know, he's worth that. But still, that's for a reliever. That is high ticket. And if he doesn't, now we've just spent $7.75 million on a reliever that we're, we could have allocated elsewhere on the field when we have a guy in AAA who we're going to pay the league minimum and he's got a chance to click.

Or we've got three guys in AAA who we could call up that have a chance to click. that yeah i mean you could you could put together a nice little bullpen uh with non-tender guys between jordan romano um hobie millner let's see i knew you're going hoby milner i'm always going hobie milner you just like that sidelined and left how about honey you're our guy honeywell your friend my doppelganger j t shagwa chagwaa kyle finnigan and tanner rainy from the nationals a couple guys that i thought might be trade candidates Hunter Stratton?

Yeah, like there's, you know, the Ray's just, we'll bleep that out. Colin Poshay, like there are a lot of interesting relievers. Tim Meza came over to the Yankees and performed pretty well down the stretch that, I don't know, I think it's whatever your team is doing with their offseason plans, I think it's good to have it in the back of your head, whether you're trading for relievers or you're signing relievers, like that world is a crazy place to be where, it is.

My God, man, the difference between $3 million and $1.5 million, like that gets so brutal so quickly. That's the most numbers crunching position. All these guys looking at the data, well, his extension on this pitch through these three weeks was really good if we just keep him have him do that again. It's like, okay. But hey, we know that bullpins mean a lot.

It is one of the more interesting positions in all of baseball. So fluid, you have guys like Kirby Yates showing up out of nowhere to just dominate. You have guys that are good for one year, and then they're gone. You have guys that all of a sudden, Luke Weaver is trying to freaking close out World Series games, and he was a failed starter. Like, what an insane position. Yeah, there are a few other interesting names. especially amongst the position players.

Ramon Luriano, who came over for the Braves and was really, really good for them. The Braves had a couple interesting names. I mentioned Griffin Canning, who was the Soler trade. They let him go. Well, Oscar, you know what? Remember him? The hitting pitcher throwing electric stuff?

How quickly did that change? Oh, I missed Adbert Alzillay on the way through. I didn't realize. Austin Hayes. You know, the birds make a trade for him. Josh Rojas on the Mariners who came out of the gates gangbusters this year, kind of won over the leadoff spot. He really slowed down throughout the rest of the season.

Everyone loves Connor Joe. Brian De LaCruz? What? That was part of their trade deadline ad. I don't know. Dylan Carlson, how often was that guy in trade rumors just to go to the raise for half a year? and now he hits free agency. Cal Quantrell for the Rockies.

I feel like a smart team is going to sign him and Brendan Rogers from the Rocks. Former top prospect gold glove winner four war season a couple years ago. Yeah, man, it's a... The non-tender side of the game, I feel was like something... I don't know, when I was learning ball,

either I was just young and blind to it, or teams were just operated more old-school, less analytical. Like, yeah, this is our guy. We're going to keep him here. He's pretty cheap. And now they've gotten so deep into the numbers that you might not be worth that price tag. What did you think when you saw my name on this list in

2016? Savvy move. Savvy move from a savvy franchise. Now, I wasn't in the game at that point, Treve. Okay. I would have given you another year, you know. All right. Hey, hopefully the hot stove has started. Kikuchi, Brady Singer and Jonathan India. Thank you for everyone tuning in and listen and make sure you're subscribed, all that good stuff.

We will get out a Thanksgiving ep for you. Hopefully there's some juice or maybe we'll do something we're thankful for, you know? Go check out warehouse games. Love this versus rotten is out now. I think you've got a little heated out there, Biggie Boy. I saw them. Shirts were off. You want the people to see that side of you, those lower back dimples?

What does that mean? It's nice. Okay. We can work on the front. It looks good now. Okay, good.